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Topic: The Magic 100
Message: Posted by: Anatole (Apr 12, 2010 04:12PM)
I don't believe this idea has been posted on the Café before.

One of my all-time favorite books is Michael Hart's _The 100: A Ranking of the 100 Most Influential Persons in History_. It occurred to me that it would be interesting to rank the top 100 most influential magicians in history. Each of us on the Café would no doubt have a widely different list from each other, but there would probably be some overlap.

To start the ball rolling, I will list my own "Top 10 Most Influential Magicians of All Time" with a sentence or two about why I picked them. I figure that the top 10 from other readers will differ enough from mine that we'll end up with additional names to help fill out the remaining 90 slots.

Without further ado--
Amado Narvaez's Ranking of the Top 100 Magicians in History
1. Jean Eugene Robert-Houdin. He heads the list not just because his performing style supposedly brought magic into the "modern" age, but because two of his books, _Secrets of Conjuring and Magic_ (in French: _Comment on Devient Sorcier: Les Secrets de la Prestidigitation et de la Magie_ ) and his memoir _Confidences d’un Prestidigitateur_ influenced whole generations of magicians that came after him. Yes, Houdini's _The Unmasking_ questioned Robert-Houdin's right to the title of "Father of Modern Magic," but one wonders what would have happened to Erich Weiss if he hadn't come upon the Robert-Houdin book when he did.
2. Harry Houdini. I feel that his name more than any other became synonymous with "magic."
3. Johann Nepomuk Hofzinser. Possibly the greatest rival to Robert-Houdins title as the "Father of Modern Magic" title.
4. Richard Cardini. Vernon described Cardini's act as the most perfect magic act ever to appear on stage. As the most imitated magic act of all time, he definitely belongs near the top.
5. Dai Vernon. He was probably the most influential magician of the 20th century. Considering that Doug Henning got a grant from the Canadian government to study with him, his influence on magic "students" all over the world can't be ignored.
6. U.F. Grant. Magic stores world-wide would have half their inventory decimated if this genius had not turned to magic as his lifetime passion.
7. Channing Pollock. Yes, I know Cantu produced doves before him. But every dove act that followed in the 20th century was influenced by Pollock, not by Cantu. Plus--I'm not sure that Cantu included card manipulations in his act, but 99% of the dove workers who followed Pollock also did card productions.
8. Francis and Antonio Martinka, mainly because they founded America's oldest magic company.
9. Mark Wilson. He brought magic into America's living rooms on a weekly basis.
10. Siegfried and Roy. The first of the Las Vegas magic superstars.

Okay. I've started the ball rolling. I expect some controversy in putting up my list. I included a brief comment on why I perceived each entry as being significant. If others post their picks for the top 10 of their 100, a brief sentence about why they selected their picks would be appreciated.

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 13, 2010 01:50AM)
There shouldn't be any controversy about this at all. If I understand your thought here, the idea would be to come up with 100 of the most influential magicians in history. There are still 90 slots left, so to speak.

So it would probably be a good idea not to duplicate any on the other lists.

So here are 10 more:

1) Angelo Lewis (Professor Hoffmann) -- wrote several books, including the four in the Modern Magic series and a couple about Robert-Houdin. Many magicians got their start from these books.

2) Harlan Tarbell -- published one of the most popular magic courses of the early 20th century -- most magicians know his work.

3) Bartolomeo Bosco -- performed all over Europe, and was considered to be the most masterful cups and balls worker of his time, if not for all time.

4) Joseph Buatier (AKA Buatier DeKolta) -- invented the silk pull, the DeKolta chair and the spring flowers, as well as other magical props we still use to this day.

5) Doug Henning -- started the revival of magic of the 1970's.

6) David Blaine -- took magic to the urban streets.

7) Uri Geller -- focused people's minds on mentalism.

8) Professor Herwin (William Humpage) -- who invented the Thumb Tip in 1885.

9) J. Barrows Mussey (Henry Hay) -- who translated some excellent magic books and wrote several very good ones as well.

10) Herschmann Chaim Steinschneider (Erik Jan Hanussen) -- who successfully predicted the Reichstag fire, possibly insuring his own success by assigning an arsonist to do the dirty work. This resulted in Hitler taking complete power over Germany. The rest is history. Hanussen should have stuck to muscle reading. But one must admit, like him or not, he certainly was influential.
Message: Posted by: David Charvet (Apr 13, 2010 03:55AM)
OK, I'll bite ... Here's my 10... In no particular order:

1. Howard Thurston. Headed America's greatest magic show from 1908-1935.

2. Harry Blackstone, Sr. Headed America's greatest magic show from 1935-1955.

3. Jack Gwynne. Brought illusions from the stage to the modern performing era.

4. Okito (Theodore Bamberg). Artistic creator and performer.

5. Fu Manchu (David Bamberg). Ditto.

6. Dante (Harry Jansen). The greatest world-touring illusionist from 1927-1950.

7. Harry Kellar. America's most famous magician from 1896-1908

8. Alexander Herrmann. Became the accepted "image" of a magician - 1875-1896.

9. Robert Harbin. The greatest creator of modern illusions during the mid/late-20th century.

10. Servais LeRoy. The greatest creator of illusions during the first half of the 20th century.
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (Apr 13, 2010 01:15PM)
1. Slydini who took Dai Vernon’s natural magic to another extreme.

2. Fred Kaps who did the same thing, but on stage.

3. Marshall Brodien that sold magic kits to those young people in the ‘70s that was influenced by Doug Henning.

4. David Copperfield who combined theatre and magic and brought it to the little screen.

5. Joseph Dunniger who brought modern mentalism to the little screen

6. Kreskin who continued the tradition.

7. James Randi who showed us that things are not always what they seem.

8. Robert Heller who opened the path to the traveling magic show in America.

9. John Nevil Maskelyne known as the Chief built illusions which highly influence magicians in his era.

10. Al Goshman who showed us how to use Sponge Balls.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Apr 13, 2010 07:01PM)
1. Ted Annemann--the father of 20th century mentalism and editor of The Jinx.

2. S.W. Erdnase--always leave them guessing.

3. Richard Kauffman-publisher and writer extraordinaire of more quality magic books than just about anyone.

4. John Ramsay-- a new era in coin magic and misdirection.

5. T. Nelson Downs--the world's most popular stage coin manipulator.

6. Jim Steinmeyer--illusions created in so many venues.

7. David Devant--laid down the elements of Our Magic.

8 and 9. Penn and Teller--expanded the notion of how magicians could play.

10. Jean Hugard--co author of Royal Road and ECT, and editor of Hugard's Monthly Magazine.
Message: Posted by: Danny Schreiber (Apr 14, 2010 04:18AM)
A few more to add to the consideration (in no particular order):

1) Isaac Fawkes - hugely successful conjurer of fairs and taverns in the 1700's (early 18th Century)

2) Giuseppe Pinetti - one of the first successful conjurers in legit theatres (late 18th Century)

3) Al Wheatley – invented the chop cup (1901-1965)

4) Lance Burton

5) Louis Comte –( Louis Apollinaire Christian Emmanuel Comte) often credited with being the first to pull a white rabbit from a black hat which is possibly the most iconic image of a magician today (side note…Some argue John Henry Anderson- The Wizard of the North was the first to pull a rabbit from a hat)

6) Milt Larsen – Academy of Magical Arts (Magic Castle) & Genii Magazine

7) Philip Breslaw– possibly the first to perform a second sight routine (late 18th Century)

8) Reginald Scot – while technically not a magician, he wrote what many consider to be the first textbook on magic (16th Century)

9) P. T. Selbit – credited with being the first to perform sawing a women in half illusion among others (early 20th Century)

10) J. B. Bobo – contributions to coin magic with Modern Coin Magic book
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 14, 2010 06:03PM)
Prevost's book "Clever and Pleasant Inventions" was actually published before Reginald Scot's book.
Message: Posted by: Samuel Catoe (Apr 16, 2010 03:07AM)
Here's some more

1. Max Maven – who just is. One of magic's greatest historian/performer/mentalist/thinker.

2. Banachek (Steve Shaw) – Psychological Subtleties, need I say more?

3. Dean Dill - one of magic's great inventors

4. David Roth – he brought coin magic out of the dark ages and onto the table

5. David Berglas – one of the masters of magic in the 20th century

6. & 7. Jay Marshall – who brought us Lefty; Francis Ireland – who, along with Jay, sold many their first magic tricks.

8. Al Flosso – whose work with the Miser’s Dream alone stands as a testament to audience management, then there’s all that other stuff he did too.

9. Ted Lesley – whose work with the marked cards revolutionized the magic world. He is a legend in the mentalist community for his ingenuity and his ability to create unbelievable magic with ordinary objects.

10. Al Baker – another giant of magic who created miracles like The Pack That Cuts Itself (haunted deck; and not the cheap magic shop version either)
Message: Posted by: landmark (Apr 23, 2010 05:20PM)
Haven't got to 100 yet :) Anyone?
Message: Posted by: Anatole (Apr 23, 2010 06:16PM)
So far I count about 78 people in the Magic 100 as submitted by Café readers.

There is a predominance of men from Europe and the Americas. Unless I missed him, I am surprised that Sorcar has not appeared on anyone's list. Lance Burton also is missing from the list, although as the first IBM Gold Medalist and the first American FISM Grand Prix winner I would expect him to be there. Surprisingly, neither Ching Ling Foo nor Chung Ling Soo (William Ellsworth Robinson) have been suggested, either, although they were the most prominent in the trend of Oriental magic performers. Perhaps we should also add Walter B. Gibson, not just for the magic books he wrote under his own name but also the books he ghost-wrote for Houdini, Thurston and Dunninger. Wikipedia also notes that "Gibson also introduced the famous 'Chinese linking rings' trick in America, and invented the 'Nickels to Dimes' trick that is still sold in magic stores to this day." Can anyone confirm that it was Gibson who introduced the ring trick in America? I would have guessed its history in America was older than that.

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
Message: Posted by: JNeal (Apr 23, 2010 08:21PM)
Without question.... Walter Gibson did NOT introduce the Chinese Linking Rings to America.

Lance Burton was listed at about #64 in the above lists, as posted by Danny Schreiber

BTW-Where is Helmut Schreiber?
Message: Posted by: motown (Apr 23, 2010 09:35PM)
Max Malini
Nate Leipzig
Horace Goldin
Penn & Teller
T Nelson Downs
Adelaide Herrmann
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 23, 2010 10:04PM)
[quote]
On 2010-04-23 21:21, JNeal wrote:

BTW-Where is Helmut Schreiber?
[/quote]

That depends on whether one believes in divine retribution.

[quote]
On 2010-04-23 19:16, Anatole wrote:
So far I count about 78 people in the Magic 100 as submitted by Café readers.

There is a predominance of men from Europe and the Americas. Unless I missed him, I am surprised that Sorcar has not appeared on anyone's list. Lance Burton also is missing from the list, although as the first IBM Gold Medalist and the first American FISM Grand Prix winner I would expect him to be there. Surprisingly, neither Ching Ling Foo nor Chung Ling Soo (William Ellsworth Robinson) have been suggested, either, although they were the most prominent in the trend of Oriental magic performers. Perhaps we should also add Walter B. Gibson, not just for the magic books he wrote under his own name but also the books he ghost-wrote for Houdini, Thurston and Dunninger. Wikipedia also notes that "Gibson also introduced the famous 'Chinese linking rings' trick in America, and invented the 'Nickels to Dimes' trick that is still sold in magic stores to this day." Can anyone confirm that it was Gibson who introduced the ring trick in America? I would have guessed its history in America was older than that.

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
[/quote]

Re: Wikipedia. Is there ANYONE on the planet who actually believes that Wikipedia's information is more than 50% correct?
Message: Posted by: Kim (Apr 23, 2010 10:19PM)
Re: Wikipedia. Is there ANYONE on the planet who actually believes that Wikipedia's information is more than 50% correct?
[/quote]

Bill, sadly there are many that seem to think it's not only accurate, but the last word on a subject too.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Apr 23, 2010 10:29PM)
Jeff Busby... for Ticking Off more magicians than anyone else in history.
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (Apr 24, 2010 01:07AM)
[quote]

BTW-Where is Helmut Schreiber?
[/quote]

I have never heard of him. But, while we are on the subject of German magicians, there was a guy named Kalanag. I wonder if Mr. Schreiber has ever heard of him? They probably never crossed paths.

Kalanag's greatest trick was to make Helmut Schreiber disappear. I suppose you can never travel around the world with a name that also belongs to a former SS Officer. (I know, I know it's Helmuth not Helmut, but to us non speaking German's, it looks similar.)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 24, 2010 02:45AM)
Pascoe:

I know you are kidding about not having heard of Helmut Schreiber, and about Kalanag's greatest trick being making Helmut Schreiber disappear.

Helmut Schreiber was actually Kalanag's name. He was a controversial figure for many reaons. He was highly placed in the German film industry during WW II. There is at least one photograph of him wearing what appears to be an SS tunic.

Note: The "Helmuth Schreiber" that shows up on Wikipedia, "the source of all truth," is a different person. Helmut(h) was a very common German name, and so is Schreiber. Helmuth is an archaic spelling of Helmut.

Kalanag's records disappeared at the end of WW II. According to Punx, who was a friend of mine and who knew Kalanag, Punx's brother was bribed by Kalanag to destroy Kalanag's service record toward the end of the war. There have been stories linking him to the disappearance of a large shipment of gold. However, this assertion is completely unprovable.

Numerous horror stories about Kalanag circulated after the War; however, it now appears that he may have been responsible for saving the lives of several Jewish magicians.

No matter what anyone's opinion of Kalanag may have been, he certainly had a positive impact on German magic. He was president of the Magischer Zirkel von Deutschland from 1936 until the end of the War.

He was the bearer of the Hofzinser ring for several years. This is an award for German speaking magicians. More about this can be found in the back of [i]Once Upon a Time[/i]. Kalanag trouped a magnificent illusion show. Lavish might be a better word. He spared absolutely no expense in bringing new material to his audiences.

Some have called him brilliant. Others have called him a violent anti-Semite. Others think that he was simply an opportunist of the lowest kind.

With the turmoil that accompanied the destruction of Germany and the years right after the war, nobody alive knows the truth about Kalanag -- except that the Germans, for the most part, still regard him very highly.
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (Apr 24, 2010 07:32PM)
Schreiber was a go getter in that he didn't let the defeat of the German army stop him from pursuing his goal. After the bad publicity about the Nazi's came out, Hitler's favorite magician was in damage control to hide his background.

I don't know too much about him except for what I have read in the magic books, which you have to take with a grain of salt as they are very bias. I do have an original program from one of his shows though.

I read that his wife, Gloria De Vos, offered Siegfried and Roy Kalanag's show, kind of like a passing of the mantle so to speak post mortem. They refused and said that they didn't want to change their style, but I don't think they wanted to be associated with background Kalanag had.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 24, 2010 09:09PM)
What is your source of information on the alleged "passing of the mantle" to Siegfried and Roy? When was this supposed to have taken place? She tried to sell Kalanag's act to a number of different people.

As far as media bias in magic magazines is concerned, I have seen relatively little, considering the various things that Kalanag has been reported to have done. The German magazines praise him to the skies. Very little negative about Kalanag has appeared in the American magic press.
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (Apr 25, 2010 12:52AM)
My only source comes from S & R's autobiography. Not sure how truthfully everything in there is, but I am not sure if they would lie about the story with Gloria De Vos. They don't have anything to gain by it.

Now the other stories...

You are correct, the American magic press has always praised Kalanag. But, I remember when I was a teen and I use to go to magic meetings near LAX that had Chris Michaels, Bob Wagner and his sister, and Arnold Furst to name a few. I remember over hearing Wagner's sister talk about the great magicians of the 50's. Everyone in that klatch talked about who they like and who was overrated.

They all agreed that Blackstone was a great magician. They all respected him. But, they did not think very highly of Sorcar or Kalanag.

As I got older, I realized that this kind of gossip happens all of the time and you can't believe everything that was said. For instance, I talked to a layperson from India that thought Sorcar was incredible. Go figure.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 25, 2010 02:38AM)
Now that you mention Sorcar, I'll tell you something about him that I'm reasonably sure hasn't gotten around much. I imagine you know who Walter Blaney is. Walter told me once that he was at a convention with P.C. Sorcar in attendance. Nobody wanted to have anything to do with Sorcar, because, after all, "he always wore that silly turban, etc."

So Walter went over and struck up a conversation with him. After a while, some television people came over and wanted to interview Sorcar. They didn't want to have anything to do with the other magicians. When they finished, Sorcar confided in Walter. "I know that most magicians think I'm some kind of a fool because I dress this way. Do you see who is going to be on television tonight? That's why I dress this way."

Sorcar was a huge publicity hound. But like him or not, he could produce the goods when he was put on the spot. People in India still know of him.

BTW, a friend of mine who is a well-known collector bought Sorcar's turban at auction. Everyone laughed because he paid a lot for it. He found out that some of those jewels in it were real!
Message: Posted by: Uli Weigel (Apr 25, 2010 03:28AM)
[quote]
On 2010-04-24 22:09, Bill Palmer wrote:
The German magazines praise him to the skies.
[/quote]

Not all of them, Bill. It's true, that the "Magie", the monthly magazine of the "Magischer Zirkel von Deutschland" praised the magician Kalanag and "forgot" to light the other side of the medal. The other big magazine in Germany, "Magische Welt" (edited by the late Werry, now by Wittus Witt), dealt very critically with the subject Kalanag, much to the discontent of the MZvD.
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (Apr 25, 2010 03:28AM)
My friend said that he remembered Sorcar doing a trick where he made a clock in the center of town stop. My friend was stupefied. To him, it was not a trick but a miracle.

I'm sure he only remembered only parts of it and like most laypeople have forgotten the details that seemed unimportant to him, but more than likely is the crux to the modus operandi.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 25, 2010 04:59AM)
[quote]
On 2010-04-25 04:28, Uli Weigel wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-04-24 22:09, Bill Palmer wrote:
The German magazines praise him to the skies.
[/quote]

Not all of them, Bill. It's true, that the "Magie", the monthly magazine of the "Magischer Zirkel von Deutschland" praised the magician Kalanag and "forgot" to light the other side of the medal. The other big magazine in Germany, "Magische Welt" (edited by the late Werry, now by Wittus Witt), dealt very critically with the subject Kalanag, much to the discontent of the MZvD.
[/quote]

It's understandable that MAGIE would have praised Kalanag. He was the editor of the magazine for quite a while.

And then, of course, there was the scandal that Kalanag caused when he refused to turn the Hofzinser ring over to Punx.

There is no doubt that Kalanag was at the very least an opportunist; however, even now there is still a lot of pro-Kalanag activity in various parts of Germany.
Message: Posted by: Anatole (Apr 25, 2010 08:53AM)
Considering the questions raised here regarding Kalanag's political affiliations, I'm curious as to why prominent British magic writer Will Dexter spoke so glowingly of Kalanag as a magician (in the book _Famous Magic Secrets__ written for the lay public) and why Irene Larsen featured her translation of the Kalanag autobiography in the pages of _GENII_ back in the 60's. In the Dexter book on page 96, Dexter writes: "In April, 1955, when the Magic Circle celebrated its golden jubilee, Kalanag insisted on coming over from Germany just to perform 'a trick or two' at the final Gala Night Show. What happened? Around the middle of the afternoon, an air-liner glided to rest at London Airport. Out of it came Kalanag and Gloria--followed by thirty members of his company! They put on a whirlwind potted version of their famous magical revue, presented at lightning speed. When the curtain came down, the great audience rose to its feet and gave Kalanag a standing ovation. Back came Kalanag, Gloria, and the company. And _they_ gave something in return--a heavy silver pitcher, beautifully inscribed, for the Magic Circle museum."

The pitcher, of course, was a lota bowl--water from India.

I'm just trying to understand why someone whose character has been called into question here on the Café would be acknowledged in a British magic book as an outstanding magician of his time.

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 25, 2010 10:50AM)
Even with his checkered past, Kalanag did put on, without question, one of the greatest magic shows that was ever done. One of my sources says that he trouped 80 tons of equipment and 40 assistants. He also kept the Magischer Zirkel von Deutschland alive during WWII.

A lot of the information that we now have about Kalanag was unknown during the 1950's, having been very carefully covered up by Schreiber and his people. I believe Richard Hatch may have written a biography of Kalanag that appeared in [i]Magic[/i] magazine. I don't subscribe to [i]Magic[/i], so I couldn't tell you.

Regarding Irene Larsen -- she knew the face of Kalanag that people saw on television and backstage. He was, to one degree or another, a friend of hers.

So, basically, it's a question of what you know and what you believe. I wouldn't trust most of the internet sources, because so many of them are heavily biased one way or the other.

Posted: Apr 25, 2010 1:15pm
I should add that a person's morality, religion, ethnic background, etc. have NOTHING to do with his skill as a performer and his ability to move an audience. As I mentioned in my list of 10, Steinschneider (Hanussen) was an extremely influential magician. He was an incredible performer, yet he was an opportunist and was probably responsible for an act that catalyzed to the Holocaust and WW II.

That does not diminish or increase his influence.
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (Apr 25, 2010 01:37PM)
Well said.
Message: Posted by: Marshall Thornside (Apr 25, 2010 09:54PM)
I thought about this...
And I could be a smart ass and name many of my
father's temporaries easily, including him.
But I'm going to take it one step even futher.

I'm going to say my TOP 100 is the entire
Chicago Magician's Roundtable.

Yes all 100 plus 8.

This is up to 1955 or so...
Therefore I'm limiting up to a specific time.

If you ever get an opportunity to look at the
Salla poster you get an amazing group of people
including Charlie McCarthy.
Message: Posted by: tabman (Apr 25, 2010 10:41PM)
[quote]
On 2010-04-25 22:54, Marshall Thornside wrote:...I'm going to say my TOP 100 is the entire Chicago Magician's Roundtable.[/quote]

Wish I could get to Chicago more often. It's a great town on many levels. Here's a picture taken in Chicago from my "collection" of Okito materials (Richard Hatch now has the original) I added Max Maven to the picture with photoshop at one point as part of a spoof a few years ago.

[img]http://questx.com/tabmanmagic/okitomax1.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (Apr 26, 2010 01:30AM)
Great photo. I can spot a few of the luminaries, but am not sure who all of them are. I see Jack Gwynne poking around in the back and Harlan Tarbell to the right. And of course Theo Bamberg is front and center. I think the person behind Okito is Walter Gibson, but I am not sure. And I'm certain that the person to the far left is Bert Allerton.

Can you list the names of these fine gentlemen.
Message: Posted by: tabman (Apr 26, 2010 10:00AM)
Well, there was a time when I could name them all. Ill see if I can reconstruct that part of my memory and get them for you. Also, I found the original pic (without Max Maven). Here it is:

[img]http://questx.com/tables/okitopic.jpg[/img]

Walter Graham is in there and at one point I even knew the name of the hotel in Chicago but Im getting older and my memory isn't what it used to be. Will see what I can do.
Message: Posted by: Kevin Connolly (Apr 26, 2010 10:23AM)
Jean Hugard next to Bert?
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (Apr 26, 2010 10:57AM)
I've only seen a few pictures of Jean Hugard when he was older, but I think you are correct. If this is a gathering of Chicago magicians, where is Ed Marlo?
Message: Posted by: Kevin Connolly (Apr 26, 2010 11:34AM)
Taking notes. :)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 26, 2010 01:06PM)
I can see Bert Allerton, (not sure), John Braun, (not sure), Walter Gibson, Okito, Jack Gwynne, Arthur Buckley, Harlan Tarbell, (not sure).
Message: Posted by: tabman (Apr 26, 2010 02:19PM)
Arthur Buckley, that's the one I couldn't remember. Very good!! If I recall, the one on the end is Walter Graham (book publisher I think).
Message: Posted by: Max Maven (Apr 26, 2010 05:36PM)
Fourth from the left is Sid Lorraine.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Apr 26, 2010 09:57PM)
L to R
Allerton, Hugard, Braun, Lorraine, Gibson, Bamberg, Gwynn, Buckley, Tarbell and the last guy?
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 27, 2010 01:55AM)
I don't think Walter Graham is that old.
Message: Posted by: tabman (Apr 27, 2010 12:01PM)
[quote]
On 2010-04-27 02:55, Bill Palmer wrote:
I don't think Walter Graham is that old.
[/quote]

Graham was born in 1923 I think. Im pretty sure this picture is from the 47 SAM/IBM convention in Chicago so that would make Graham much too young, you're right, if IM right.

The Okito sticker on it was from Okito's promo material I bought many years ago as part of a broader magic paper collection when I was deep into studying Bamberg's shop philosophy, tools and methods. I based my gig around his philosophy of finishing out every inch of a prop, inside and outside. That you would be judged as much by how the unseen is finished in his eyes.

Made sense to me and I ended up with this marvelous picture.
Message: Posted by: Marshall Thornside (Apr 27, 2010 08:47PM)
From my my poster the only person the person
on the far right resembles is Julius Sundman.

but I could be far far off.


I thought the first SAM/IBM convention was in 1950...

I'll have to look on my phone because I took pictures
from the Uncle Jay's scrap book from the auction
because my dad was one of the performers of that
year.
Message: Posted by: tabman (Apr 28, 2010 10:12AM)
[quote]
On 2010-04-27 21:47, Marshall Thornside wrote:
From my my poster the only person the person
on the far right resembles is Julius Sundman.

but I could be far far off.


I thought the first SAM/IBM convention was in 1950...

I'll have to look on my phone because I took pictures
from the Uncle Jay's scrap book from the auction
because my dad was one of the performers of that
year.
[/quote]

It probably was 1950. I don't have any reference material anymore and have to rely on my memory. I think Buckley won the magic contest at the 47 convention if I recall. Because he's in the pic I was thinking it might be the combined.

I would like to know for sure if you can find out.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 28, 2010 10:25AM)
If those badges are any indication, then it wasn't a combined convention. There is only one club logo on the badge. If it was a combined convention, there would be an IBM logo in one corner and an SAM logo in the opposite corner.
Message: Posted by: andre combrinck (Apr 28, 2010 02:22PM)
[quote]
On 2010-04-23 23:29, Pete Biro wrote:
Jeff Busby... for Ticking Off more magicians than anyone else in history.
[/quote]

Wouldn't that go to Valentino!? The masked magus( sorry I spelled that wrong mANUS)!
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 28, 2010 06:01PM)
You had to be there.
Message: Posted by: Marshall Thornside (Apr 28, 2010 09:13PM)
[quote]
On 2010-04-28 11:12, tabman wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-04-27 21:47, Marshall Thornside wrote:
From my my poster the only person the person
on the far right resembles is Julius Sundman.

but I could be far far off.


I thought the first SAM/IBM convention was in 1950...

I'll have to look on my phone because I took pictures
from the Uncle Jay's scrap book from the auction
because my dad was one of the performers of that
year.
[/quote]

It probably was 1950. I don't have any reference material anymore and have to rely on my memory. I think Buckley won the magic contest at the 47 convention if I recall. Because he's in the pic I was thinking it might be the combined.

I would like to know for sure if you can find out.
[/quote]

I'll try dad.

I'll say this, all through the time we were helping Sandy with his
book we received several photos. Jim Sommers said it best.

When people don't write names down and when it happened and you
don't see these people for years or they pass they look different
and you forget who they are.

Sometimes I think much of magic history belongs in I don't know land.
Message: Posted by: tabman (Apr 29, 2010 11:45AM)
[quote]
On 2010-04-28 22:13, Marshall Thornside wrote:...I'll try dad...[/quote]

Great, thanks.
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (May 1, 2010 04:29PM)
Is that last person on the right Geoffrey Buckingham?
Message: Posted by: Kevin Connolly (May 1, 2010 04:45PM)
It sures doesn't look-like him to me.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/3317852.jpg%3Fv%3D1%26c%3DIWSAsset%26k%3D2%26d%3D45B0EB3381F7834DD00F3D5DAF40055A6358FD80BF4BB3FE11D40A26B3E28636&imgrefurl=http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/3317852/Hulton-Archive&usg=__qubmbiQHXR9Ti9w326LQR_49OmU=&h=594&w=442&sz=35&hl=en&start=9&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=ZEDfFzu8-NJ5KM:&tbnh=135&tbnw=100&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgeoffrey%2Bbuckingham%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1I7GDNA_en%26tbs%3Disch:1
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 1, 2010 11:00PM)
No, It definitely is not Geoffrey Buckingham.
Message: Posted by: tabman (May 4, 2010 04:33PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-02 00:00, Bill Palmer wrote:
No, It definitely is not Geoffrey Buckingham.
[/quote]

Maybe I'll post it at Genii again and see if anyone over there knows who the mystery man is.
Message: Posted by: Marshall Thornside (May 5, 2010 12:28PM)
Tabman, dad said Edgar Bergman right away.
Message: Posted by: tabman (May 5, 2010 03:08PM)
Thank you for checking with your dad for me and it does look like EB somewhat. Please give him my thanks.

According to a message David Ben just left on the Genii Forum:

"David Ben replied to a Watched Topic at the site: http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=220763#Post220763

The guy on the far right is Dave Coleman."

Could you check and see if your dad knew Coleman??
Message: Posted by: iugefu (Jul 21, 2010 07:50AM)
Did Hanussen ever associate with magicians?
Ive just finished reading Hanussen, Hitler's Jewish clairvoyant.
And as the book made clear,he was also likely to have been killed as lots of people owed him large sums of money.
Message: Posted by: Chance (Jul 21, 2010 08:25AM)
Walter Gibson
Melbourne Christopher
John Calvert
Message: Posted by: Jacques (Jul 21, 2010 10:29AM)
I would add a few:

Camille Gaultier: for manipulators. Author of "La prestidigitation sans appareils", translated by Jean Hugard as "Magic without apparatus"

Jeff Sheridan: for street magic

Dariel Fitzkee: for his view on the theory and working of misdirection.

Frank Garcia: for many sleights and routines in close up magic. And especially, from my point of view, for his books "The very best of cups & balls" and "The real secrets of the Three ball routines".

And one that we often forget, even though he might be responsible for the biggest magic we see almost every day: Georges Méliès : successor of Eugène Robert-Houdin as director of the Théatre Robert-Houdin (24 years), He brought illusionism to cinema by inventing movie special effects. The tricks he used (especially stop motion camera and masks) are at the root of most special effects we know today.
We say that the Lumière bothers invented the cinematograph,and Méliès invented cinema !
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jul 21, 2010 10:38AM)
Sadly, Dariel Fitzkee's book on the theory and working of misdirection is one of the least read publications in magic. Most of the noobs have never even heard of him. It's a pity, because his book lays an important part of the groundwork of this.
Message: Posted by: Jacques (Jul 21, 2010 11:04AM)
You are absolutely right Mr. Palmer. The real innerworking of our art is in these books. My first year in prestidigitation, I was into tricks. Then I read "Magic by misdorection" and "The trick brain" and for me it changed everything (routines, topics, style, techniques, presentation, tools ...).
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jul 21, 2010 11:48AM)
[i]Showmanship for Magicians[/i] is also very important. The examples are, of course, somewhat outdated; however, Fitzkee acknowledges this in the beginning of the book when he states that trends change and it is likely that, for example, Hawaiian music would not be as suitable a background for a magic act as something else that is more popular later.

At the time Fitzkee wrote the book, Hawaiian music was very popular over here. Nevertheless, there are still a lot of techniques in that book that will help in the performance of magic.

[i]The Trick Brain[/i], which was the book that most people read, was in my opinion, the least important book in the trilogy. Although the division of effects into their basic categories is necessary, his random trick generating system is not really as good a way to work out an act as one would think at first glance.

The main reason, to my way of thinking, is that it is very easy to generate a new trick with the Trick Brain system, but a major percentage of these tricks will not make much sense.

I've seen acts that were very definitely "Trick Brain" acts. One that I remember quite well was centered around phonograph records. There was a production of tiny phonograph records from the air, as in "the Miser's Dream." There was a zombie style floating 33 1/3 record, as well as several other really meaningless tricks.

Here's what I mean. "The Miser's Dream" has meaning. If we could pluck money out of the air, our financial troubles would be over. But what good are tiny phonograph records that you can't play on a phongraph? And they are very difficult to see in a big theatre.

A floating ball has spiritual significance. A floating vinyl disc????? I don't think so.

Amazingly, when the CD's took over from vinyl records, a fellow worked out a similar act that was much more appropriate and meaningful.

So, [i]The Trick Brain[/i] can give you a start, but I don't think it's really up to the significance of the other two books.

I saw an act with cell phones once that looked like a good "Trick Brain" act.
Message: Posted by: Jacques (Jul 21, 2010 12:15PM)
Your example of a "trick brain act" is accurate. I would say that plucking CDs from thin air isn't any better than vinyl disks. Hey, anyone can produce a lot of MP3s from downloads...;-)
Based on Fitzkee's approach, I would say that changing the object in a routine has to have a reason. For example, we see a lot of magician brigning a Kennedy half dollar and saying: "Here, I will show you a trick."
After Fitzkee, I discarded my half dollars and english pennies and started to use unusual coins (chinese coins with a hole, old counterfeit coins, etc...). Instead of anouncing a trick, I use the interest of the spectator for a strange coin and usually, they will lean over, take the coin and look closely at it. Then I can reach in my pocket and grab another coin. Sometimes, they are so concentrated on the first coin that I could produce an elephant if I had one in my pocket.
To me, "The trick brain" and "Magic by misdirection" works together.
Unfortunately, I don't have Ftizkee's "Showmanship for magicians". I read "Magic and Showmanship" by Henning Nelms instead (Nelms also should be considered on this list as influencial).
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jul 21, 2010 08:45PM)
There were a number of big advantages to the CD's. Of course, part of it was the magician. But for one thing, you could actually SEE the CD's, and there was the implication that all of them were playable.

The CD act was shorter and a bit faster paced. He also did a bit or two with the boom box that he actually played a couple of CD's on.
Message: Posted by: gardini (Jul 28, 2010 02:49PM)
How about

David Devant
John Nevil Maskelyne

they should make the list
Message: Posted by: magicusb (Nov 9, 2010 09:12AM)
I would add Dorothy Dietrich, who has broken many barriers for women.

She started as a teenager doing routines women mostly would not breech. When she started as a teenager women were not even allowed full membership in most magic organizations. SAM, Magic Circle, etc. She knows because she tried to join at the time.

She has accomplished things many of the "boys" would not touch, clearing the way for recognition, admittance and for many other women to follow.

Along with establishing NY's Magic Towne House that showcased many of today's greats, and currently the Houdini Museum in Scranton.

Dick Brookz
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Nov 9, 2010 09:47AM)
It would be very difficult to ignore the contributions of Suzy Wandas, Dell O'Dell and naturally, Adelaide Herrmann in this vein.

To change the subject momentarily, Dick, will you be at the gathering in Westborough this weekend?
Message: Posted by: magicusb (Nov 9, 2010 10:12AM)
Without a doubt there are other ladies including Adelaide who was already mentioned as well as possibly Anna Eva Fay.

To answer your other question, Dorothy is booked in NYC WED & Thurs at the Jewish Museum in conjunction with the Houdini exhibit there. We will then be in Kutztown PA visiting with Kevin James, Johnny Thompson, et all Fri & Sat. They should also be on this list. Johnny, in case you do not know, helped out with Teller and Todd Robbins great fabulous wonderful show "Play Dead", in previews, that opens here on November 11, the same day we will be at the Jewish Museum.

We are also currently busy working with John & Tammy Calvert helping out with their tour here in the Northeast. Great people and magic royalty who certainly belong on this list.

Dick Brookz

Best wishes and regards.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Nov 10, 2010 02:41AM)
Johnny Thompson is one of my best friends. He is possibly the best all-around magicians alive, period. When he appeared here in Houston at Magic Island, I was his emcee. So I learned all of the backstage bits, etc. that he uses.

There is a LOT going on up East this weekend!!! I'm heading up to NEMCA.
Message: Posted by: magicusb (Nov 10, 2010 08:37AM)
Bill;

Johnny has a huge knowledge, talent and background. Did you know he was in vaudeville with a famous hit recording harmonica group early on?
Dick Brookz
Message: Posted by: mumford (Nov 10, 2010 09:51AM)
The Harmonicats?