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Topic: Fast and Loose chain
Message: Posted by: asgar (May 15, 2010 02:41AM)
My nearest shop doesn't sell Fast and Loose chain .So can anyone be generous enough to describe the chain?(length,weight,breadth ....)
Message: Posted by: Glenn Morphew (May 15, 2010 09:49PM)
I highly recommend just getting one directly from School For Scoundrels. While you're at it, buy their DVD too.

http://www.chefanton.com/scoundrelsstore/fast_and_loose.htm
Message: Posted by: sethb (Jun 2, 2010 06:50AM)
I second the suggestion about the Whit Haydn DVD, it is a tremendous resource and a great way to learn the moves.

The Scoundrels chain is nice, but you can also go to the nearest hardware store and for $10, get about 6 feet of "ball chain," in your choice of chrome, brass or stainless steel. It usually comes in two sizes (diameters), and I suggest the larger size for better visiblity. You can easily cut it to your preferred length with a pair of pliers or tin snips. SETH
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jun 2, 2010 11:27AM)
The SFS chain is designed to do [i]a lot more[/i] than just look nice.....it addresses very specific issues, issues which will often come back to bite you if you're using "normal" varieties of chain, ball chain included.
Message: Posted by: Rory111 (Jul 11, 2010 11:14AM)
Wow...Just got my SFS Chain, Knot and the DVD w/notes...I just had met Whit Haydn at the S.A.M. convention in Atlanta...but, didn't buy the set when I should have...I was unable to get back on the last day and was kicking myself, so I ordered online..... Smooth transaction...Great communication(s)...Prompt delivery...Quality product(s)!

I had gone to the hardware store and got 5 feet of ball chain to play with prior to receiving my order. If you like Fast & Loose, you really would be doing yourself a favor by treating yourself to one of these chains....and the DVD is incredible. I also highly recommend just getting one directly from School For Scoundrels...There is definitely a difference in the handling when using a ball chain vs. SFS chain. The SFS chain handles and shows much cleaner.
Message: Posted by: panlives (Jul 16, 2010 07:25AM)
School for Scoundrels is a gold-mine.
The product, literature, video and customer service quality are all that one can hope for in a magic supplier.
My wife and I have a pact: she gets her monthly shoe binge and I get my SFS fix.
Message: Posted by: blackmagicguy (Jul 17, 2010 11:55PM)
I have made my own chain before and I would recommend if you are going to perform this effect for an audience you invest in the School of Scoundrels chain and the video.
Message: Posted by: panlives (Jul 19, 2010 10:10AM)
School For Scoundrels, along with any of their printed or video work.
They are the best of the best.
Take it from a repeat customer.
Message: Posted by: fyi2 (Jul 29, 2010 08:25PM)
Just got my 5ft silver and 4ft copper chains from Rich Hennessey and they are beautiful. great weight, lovely aesthetics, I got both for $54 and fee shipping.

You should check out his prices.

Tony
Message: Posted by: Vlad_77 (Aug 9, 2010 12:22PM)
Marc DeSouza is also another excellent source for both the chain and a great routine.

Ahimsa,
Vlad
Message: Posted by: kmpx18 (Aug 9, 2010 12:29PM)
For an excellent explanation check out Scam School with Brian Brushwood
Message: Posted by: BigSmile (Aug 31, 2010 06:43AM)
I got mine from here: http://safetymagicshows.com/books.htm

Scroll down to find the chains.

Later I also got the SFS chain and it is really good. But it depends on the price you want to invest!
Message: Posted by: BigSmile (Aug 31, 2010 06:44AM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-09 13:22, Vlad_77 wrote:
Marc DeSouza is also another excellent source for both the chain and a great routine.

Ahimsa,
Vlad
[/quote]
Is the Chain Gang routine from DeSouza an in the hand routine or a half-table method?
Message: Posted by: Boudje (Aug 31, 2010 10:04AM)
[quote]
On 2010-07-29 21:25, fyi2 wrote:
Just got my 5ft silver and 4ft copper chains from Rich Hennessey and they are beautiful. great weight, lovely aesthetics, I got both for $54 and fee shipping.

You should check out his prices.

Tony
[/quote]

Have you got a link?
I'm searching for a chain with a design similar as the one from the scoundrels shop, but without Nikel ( a silver one for example).
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Aug 31, 2010 11:44AM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-31 11:04, Boudje wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-07-29 21:25, fyi2 wrote:
Just got my 5ft silver and 4ft copper chains from Rich Hennessey and they are beautiful. great weight, lovely aesthetics, I got both for $54 and fee shipping.

You should check out his prices.

Tony
[/quote]

Have you got a link?
I'm searching for a chain with a design similar as the one from the scoundrels shop, but without Nikel ( a silver one for example).
[/quote]

Nickle-plated chain looks like silver, but it doesn't wear off or tarnish so easily.

A silver-plated chain will go black very quickly from working in the hands. I have used a solid silver chain, but it needed regular polishing.

We use a very heavy gold and nickle plating to avoid that tarnish and wear. Plating is applied after the chain is seamlessly linked together (the plating is too thick to allow the links to be opened and closed after plating).

Our chains are quaranteed for life from ANY tarnish, wear, or chipping.

That is why they are expensive.

They are the best quality plated chains available.

We also recommend the French braid chain over the flat link or ball chain. The design is more deceptive to the eye, and it is much more difficult to follow the layout.

Ball chains, string, and flat length chain should be looped in at the very least a seven foot loop in order to create a layout that can not be taken in at once by the eye.
Message: Posted by: Tom Fenton (Aug 31, 2010 12:23PM)
"Have you got a link..."

:rotf:
Message: Posted by: Boudje (Aug 31, 2010 04:20PM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-31 12:44, Whit Haydn wrote:
Nickle-plated chain looks like silver, but it doesn't wear off or tarnish so easily.

A silver-plated chain will go black very quickly from working in the hands. I have used a solid silver chain, but it needed regular polishing.

We use a very heavy gold and nickle plating to avoid that tarnish and wear. Plating is applied after the chain is seamlessly linked together (the plating is too thick to allow the links to be opened and closed after plating).

Our chains are quaranteed for life from ANY tarnish, wear, or chipping.

That is why they are expensive.

They are the best quality plated chains available.

We also recommend the French braid chain over the flat link or ball chain. The design is more deceptive to the eye, and it is much more difficult to follow the layout.

Ball chains, string, and flat length chain should be looped in at the very least a seven foot loop in order to create a layout that can not be taken in at once by the eye.
[/quote]

I totally agree with you. It's more a matter of material than a matter of price.

I got problem with nickel, I don't know the english word for " allergie", may be allergia? (You put nickel on your skin, and it's become full of red spots, its a nice magic trick indeed), that's why I was looking for a silver one.
Message: Posted by: BigSmile (Sep 2, 2010 12:57AM)
Hi Mr. Allergie! ;)

Sag mal, aus welchem Teil der Republik kommst du denn? :)
Message: Posted by: Prober (Nov 17, 2010 10:54PM)
Not wishing to fuel a fire here, but I was excited recently to see several 'operators' working the routine for real, and taking money from genuine punters rather than in demonstration mode. It was in the big market square in Marrakesh, Morrocco (reputedly one of the oldest markets in the world still in existence), and rather than using chain of any particular design, weight, length or finish, they were all using frayed loops of nylon string - and taking a fortune!
Message: Posted by: Comedy Writer (Feb 15, 2011 02:01PM)
I often use bead chain from a craft store or a light pull from a home store.
Message: Posted by: Sander (Apr 19, 2011 12:20PM)
May I suggest this topic?
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=367410&forum=190&20

I got one chain from there and it suits my needs perfectly!
Message: Posted by: C Gibson (May 22, 2012 08:38PM)
Can I ask if anyone knows the specific reason why chain is traditionally used?

Can fast and loose not work with a loop of rope or a simple shoelace in a loop or something similar? Or is the fact that it is a chain integral to the effect?

Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (May 23, 2012 09:29AM)
A chain makes it visually confusing to the spectator, especially the French Twist variety from SfS or Rich Hennessey. It confuses the eye so they can't see whether the chain crosses over or under the other loop. Its not absolutely necessary, and people have used cords and ropes for years, but any little bit helps plus chains are easier to carry and look nicer.
Message: Posted by: C Gibson (May 23, 2012 03:10PM)
Thanks a lot for that, makes a lot of sense. So far I have been doing an 'in the hands' version with a loop of cord so my hands cover all the crosses. Was just wondering if I was missing a trick here (no pun intended).

Thanks.
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Jun 5, 2012 05:29PM)
Sander and Dave....thank-you for your positive comments!

For those that may be interested, I have entered a new photo of the Dark Natural Steel endless chain with dropoff knot and pouch.
http://tinyurl.com/6rtk7f4

Happy trails.
Rich
Message: Posted by: sleightly (Jun 6, 2012 07:35AM)
I prefer the ball chain for my own work for one reason: some people believe you pull the chain from different places and that this allows you to control the game. By using the ball chain, I can open the chain and put on my finger ring to ensure that I will only pull from one place - the ring. In this way I can't "yank their chain"...
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Jun 7, 2012 09:45AM)
I worked a trade show where the theme was motorcycles. (It was a mortgage conference, go figure...)

I linked my SfS chain to a Harley Davidson wallet and used it like you to show that I'm always pulling from the same spot each time. Plus, the HD wallet had the prize that they were trying to win.
Message: Posted by: sleightly (Jun 7, 2012 12:09PM)
Nice thinking Dave!
Message: Posted by: James Munton (Jun 7, 2012 11:49PM)
Dave, that is a fantastic idea.
Message: Posted by: Bluesman (Jun 8, 2012 05:10PM)
Wow Dave, that is great!
Message: Posted by: gomerel (Sep 3, 2012 12:08AM)
When I first heard about Fast & Loose, I did not have money to buy the chain. But I did buy the SFS book. Since I was mostly doing street magic at ren faires, I got interested in the orignial method of using a spiral strap. Now I use it at 19th century events too. Is anyone using that style?
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Sep 17, 2012 09:59PM)
That is interesting about the spiral strap. You may like to consider my copper plated chain. It has an nice antique look...the weight is great.....and due to its french rope chain linkage...it is very deceptive.

http://tinyurl.com/2d326ve

Good move getting the SFS book.

Rich
Message: Posted by: gomerel (Sep 17, 2012 11:08PM)
Here is my write-up of my spiral fast and loose: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=481819&forum=26&1
Message: Posted by: Sonny_Knight (Dec 6, 2012 09:13PM)
Hello, I have been a member for some time know but never posted anything. I just came along this thread. I make this fast and loose chains to sell at my lectures. They come in three colors, gold, silver or rose and come with velvet carrying pouch. They sell for $25. I have collected many chains over the years and the ones I make fit the bill quite nicely. I don't want to take away anything from the Scoundrels set...which I have a few myself but my chains are of the same quality at practically half the cost. If interested I can send some pics or would like to purchase them just e-mail at sonny_boombatts@yahoo.com

I showed Sal Piacente a set of my chains when I had him review and endorse my latest book "Swindled" He gave it two thumbs up!

By the way I am thinning out my gambling collection and getting rid of some duplicates and have a KC Card company catalogue from 1953 available for sale! Mint condition...and I do mean Mint! I know those are always popular.

Thanks guys Talk to you soon

-Sonny
Message: Posted by: Pop Haydn (Dec 19, 2012 04:16PM)
Sonny, that sounds like a good bargain, but when you say they are S4S quality, does that mean they are the same heavy weight steel chain with the same quality lifetime-guaranteed plating?

We offer a lifetime guarantee on our gold and nickle chains against tarnishing, chipping or cracking of the finish. It costs us a lot to have the plating done right, and otherwise we could not make our full-replacement offer.

There is nothing wrong with providing a good chain at a low cost, but I would love to see your chain if it is as you say, of the same quality as the S4S chain...
Message: Posted by: jcrabtree2007 (Feb 1, 2013 12:35AM)
SFS Chain. Mine has taken years of abuse and still looks great, like new. I didn't realize they had a lifetime guarantee on the finish. Thanks Whit.(I bet though this chain will last a lifetime).
Message: Posted by: louisk (Apr 28, 2013 02:09AM)
What should the length of the chain be ?
Message: Posted by: purpleflag (Jun 26, 2013 03:20PM)
Hi,
I've already got the excellent S4S DVD along with the excellent S4S chain, but can anyone tell me where I can find out other patterns to arrange the chain, especially in the air -without need for a table :)

Thanks
Ian
Message: Posted by: NicholasD (Jun 26, 2013 09:43PM)
Apocalypse Sept., 1983, All-In-Air Endless Loop by Robert L. Brooks. There are also some in the air variations in the Supreme "Know How" Series Endless Chain booklet from 1983.
Message: Posted by: Magicmike1949 (Jul 14, 2013 10:40PM)
Marc DeSouza teaches how to make the figure in the air on his DVD.
Message: Posted by: purpleflag (Aug 10, 2013 03:11AM)
I've not been able to track down any of the books -they all seem to be out of print:(

...but I have now got the Marc DeSouza DVD:) ...which got me thinking is it possible to do a setup in the air which would leave it catch/catch
I know of on the table layouts such as 'Fred Lowe triple circle routine', 'Ken Schwabe', S4S which all allow catch/catch although I'm in search of as many possibilities as I can find for the catch/catch form, I'd really like in air methods so it can be performed with the chain over the fingers.

I'm thinking along the lines of child vs adult with the child always winning, adult always losing;)
Message: Posted by: NicholasD (Aug 10, 2013 09:28AM)
The All-In-Air Endless Loop by Bob Brooks in Apocalypse also includes a method described by Harry Lorayne for setting up catch/catch in the air. Apocalypse has been reprinted in bound volumes. Well worth having.

Check Ebay. The Supreme "Know How" Endless chain booklet and a chain with it, is up for auction now.
Message: Posted by: purpleflag (Aug 11, 2013 01:01AM)
Thanks,

Looking round I finally found some handy links I thought I'd share:

All the Apocalypse volumes are available to buy as pdf files along with lots of other magic books from http://conjuringarts.org/
Searchable for content in lots of resources such as Apocolypse at http://www.conjuringarchive.com/
Supreme "know how" booklet is available to buy as pdf at http://www.lybrary.com/the-endless-chain-knowhow-series-p-11628.html


I hope those may help somebody


Many thanks
Message: Posted by: Magic.J.Manuel (Sep 2, 2013 08:21PM)
I like the SFS chain since it is also know as a rope chain and I can do some basic rope tricks. I got a longer one from Chef Anton and can do the chain through the neck with it.

I do not use a gambling story, but talk about a wizard escaping from a chain. I put a small bell on the chain that has a little wizard on it. This wizard will always escape when you try to trap him in one loop or the other. The person can grab the wizard bell and the chain will come loose.

These little bells are available at biker shops known as Guardian Bells, or gremlin bell. You are supposed to hang it on your bike for good luck and all the evil gremlins will get caught in the bell and fall off the bike instead of the rider.

I finish with one loop, a sure thing, doing a chain through the spec's arm.
Message: Posted by: shellgame-al (Sep 2, 2013 11:00PM)
Magic.J.Manuel

That routine sounds very fun. Would love to see it.
Message: Posted by: Kjellstrom (Jun 2, 2014 11:59PM)
World's Greatest Magic - Endless Chain:

http://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic/worlds-greatest-magic/worlds-greatest-endless-chain/
Message: Posted by: cheaptrick (Jul 21, 2014 03:34PM)
I use Bob Brooks All In The Air routine. Bob is a friend and belongs to my magic club.

He gave me his chain when he was getting rid of some of his things when he was downsizing
to go into an assisted living facility. I wear this when I perform as you can see in my avitar.

Bob is truely a fine gentleman of the old school. Mlbourne Christopher was the boyhood friend
who got him interested in magic. Hen Fetch, and many oldtime Baltimore magicians were personal
friends as well.

Wearing his chain gives me a handy prop and makes a Fashion Statement (of sorts <grin>) that
fits my performing persona.


A funny story: I was wearing the chain while waiting to go on at a banquet job.

One of the attendees remarked about my chain.

"Oh, that's actually a game of chance". I did a quick demo, and sure as heck
some of the bystanders started to drag out money.

Made more than $20 in the 5 minutes before I went on.


You can find Bob's All In The Air routine in Harry Lorayne's Apocalypse vol6 (page 817.

This routine dosen't have to be used as an "In the Air"(the spec holds the chain and
releases it to find if he has made the right choice. I believe this makes the effect
stronger because of the specs involvement. This eliminates the need for an available
table top.(very important for restaurant jobs and walkaround gigs).

But, it works very well when you have a table.


:magicrabbit:
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Jul 21, 2014 04:11PM)
That is a nice story. I hope Bob Brooks is doing well. I probably have that issue of Apocalypse in storage.
I always wanted to learn a good 'in the air' version. Thank-you for sharing.
Message: Posted by: sescarny (Sep 16, 2014 02:26PM)
I've used string, ball chain, small hardware store brass chain, etc... and they all worked fine for me - however, while I don't own one - I have used one - and the School for Scoundrels chain is very nice. I think, when it comes down to it, Fast and Loose chain is mostly up to personal preference and handling style. The Scoundrels chain is very nice to confuse the person who's playing, but if you're good at misdirection, then just about any sort of chain, string or whatever else can work, but probably not look at nice as a Scoundrels chain or similar. It's really up to you and your style.