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Topic: My Foxy 3 Combo Cups ....
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (May 22, 2010 02:12PM)
Well, they said it couldn't be done (by "it" I am talking about improving on the Foxy 2.5's) but it has and Donnie has obviously applied a brain the size of a planet to re-tooling and creating the Foxy 3 combo cups...

They do everything the Foxy 2.5's did and more... and the weight.. ahhhh the weight!

Donnie's been taking RNT2 to good places and I believe he's truly made his mark with these cups, they're beautiful. If you'd like a few pics and to read a bit more about these long awaited cups then take a look here...

http://tinyurl.com/2w3r5jg

Bri
Message: Posted by: spatlind (May 22, 2010 04:26PM)
Bri

Just had a look and read the review. They look like a fine set of cups, immaculate! I always loved my Foxy 2.5s, these look like a great step forward. Well done Donnie, I'm not in the market at the moment, but if I were, I reckon these would be top of my list!

Scott
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (May 22, 2010 05:17PM)
Scott,

Donnie'sattention to detail rocks! They are beautiful cups indeed.

Bri
Message: Posted by: ClayC (May 22, 2010 11:59PM)
Do you like them better than Mendozas? Why or why not?
Message: Posted by: magiclimber (May 23, 2010 12:31AM)
I got to see a set of foxy 2.5's today, and was really impressed. I can only imagine what these are like, and the fact that they're a combo set is great!

Donnie really is doing a great job, releasing so many new products!

Are these noticeably different than the 2.5's?
Message: Posted by: Tom Fenton (May 23, 2010 02:26AM)
Those look great Bri.

Love the review.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (May 23, 2010 11:09AM)
Clay, its hard to say but I think if I were working with tennis balls (as I often do) then the Foxy's may have the edge because of the drastic radius at the top for a final display.

magiclimber, the main thing you notice is the added weight, they feel really good to work with.

Tom, thanks!

Bri
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 23, 2010 05:32PM)
I'll have to take a look at these when I get back from Europe.
Message: Posted by: RevJohn (May 24, 2010 10:23AM)
I am a huge fan of the Foxy 2.5's.

Looking to the Foxy 3's right now!

John
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (May 24, 2010 10:30AM)
Bill, John...

You wont regret it! I am really falling for these. The heavier gauge feels really nice. There is a very noticeable difference when you pick up a set of 2.5's and then a set of 3's.

Bri
Message: Posted by: RevJohn (May 24, 2010 09:58PM)
Thanks Bri!

Now to see about raising the cash-ola!

John
Message: Posted by: robbyrob (May 25, 2010 09:54PM)
Hey - thanks for the review. I've had my eye these for since I first saw them added to the site. I might just have to take the plunge. My main concern was them being too heavy compared to my other cups, thus causing me to have to re-adjust on moves when I change back and forth between different cups. Hopefully this is will not be an issue.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (May 26, 2010 03:00AM)
I think the key aspect is the way they are balanced. They are heavier but in a positive way... they handle beautifully.
Message: Posted by: ASW (May 26, 2010 11:13AM)
Bri - what do they sound like when you whack em with a brass wand tip? Ring like a bell or not?

Thanks
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (May 26, 2010 12:08PM)
I don't think any cup with a spun insert is going to ring like a bell.

Bels of St Mary cups, Johnson's or Bennett cups are what you are looking for if you want a nice sounding cup when you smack it with a metal tipped wand. The tightness of the mouth beads have a lot to do with how a cup sounds too.
Message: Posted by: ASW (May 27, 2010 01:36AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-26 13:08, mindyourmagic wrote:
I don't think any cup with a spun insert is going to ring like a bell.

[/quote]

Neither do I, that's why I asked. I'm hoping someone, some day rises to the challenge and comes up with some subtle insert that allows the cup to sound like a cup. I've seen cups that DO ring like a bell and are chopped, but they are unique and not for sale - and unfortunately not in my collection.

I'm sure James Riser could meet this challenge if he was so inclined, but there's probably no money in it and he'd have to spend a lot of time on his own dime to perfect it.
Message: Posted by: magiclimber (May 27, 2010 02:31AM)
Is ringing that important? I never hit my cups hard enough to create a ring? I mean the JP cups do ring, but I don't use this in performances.
Message: Posted by: ASW (May 27, 2010 10:04AM)
It is to me. All part of the spectacle.
Message: Posted by: Donnie Buckley (May 27, 2010 11:22AM)
Hey Bri,
I love the review you wrote! Thanks, and I'm so glad you like the cups.
I had spun the first couple of Combo Cups from .064 copper and thought they might be "too" heavy, so I did some in .050 copper too. When I described these cups in the CupsCon forum, it was you and the other guys over at CupsCon who all chimed in and said "the heavier, the better".
I took the advice. It was easy to do, because I really like them this way myself! I just wasn't sure that an 8 ounce cup was for everybody...
The Foxy 3 Combo Cups end up being my favorite full size cup in the entire inventory now - whether they are used straight or gaffed.

There is still work to be done with the Foxy design:
1. The Foxy Mini Cups, the cups that started it all, need to come back.
2. A Foxy cup that holds a baseball size load is needed as well.

Once I've accomplished those two things, I'll be really happy.

I am very satisfied with the Foxy design for cups and balls moves. I find that sleights that are performed with the cups rather than with the hands, like the Elevator Move, Tip Off Move & Gallopping Post are just EASIER to do with these cups. Because there are no ridges, or obstructions, around the saddle and because there is no deeply recessed dimple, and because there is a smooth but drastic radius from the center bead to the saddle, and because of the placement of the center bead - moves just click.
Like with a Tip Off move, the placement of the center bead and the diameter of the ball make all the difference in performing this sleight without error every time.

In reality, we owe all those benefits to Mad Jake. He was the genius who engineered their specs. The only improvement I could make to them was to make them heavier and gaff them.

I just wish there was a way that people could sample them, hold them in their hands, and "feel" the cup. Keith Mitchell, a member of this forum, had a clever idea about "Travelling Cups" where a set of cups could be sent like a chain letter and sampled by many people, for just the cost of the postage required to send the cups to the next address on the list. I'm still trying to determine if this is a good idea or not! But it's very interesting. The web connects us all, but it detaches the physical touch that you used to be able to get when you could visit a store in person and handle the cups. Maybe the time is right for an idea like this...
Message: Posted by: RevJohn (May 27, 2010 12:37PM)
Anyway we can put a set of Foxy 3 Combos on Lay-away? Now that would help tremendously! :)

I think I am only partly kidding...

RevJohn
Message: Posted by: Mobius303 (May 27, 2010 10:08PM)
I was able to handle the cups when I visited Donnie yesterday.
The weight is excellent on the foxy 3's ....they just feel right.
I like them very much and really think that if someone is on the fence about them they couldn't go wrong with this set.
Mobius
Message: Posted by: djkuttdecks (May 27, 2010 10:37PM)
What is the weight of one of these cups "straight"? The RNT2 site says average of 5 oz but that can't be right if they are done in .064 copper.

-Lee
Message: Posted by: ASW (May 28, 2010 01:52AM)
So, Donnie. Can you make 'em so they ring when you whack 'em?
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (May 28, 2010 03:08AM)
ASW, I would direct bespoke orders in a PM to Donnie if I were you. I am sure that he will be happy to help.
Message: Posted by: ASW (May 28, 2010 03:14AM)
All I want to know is - is it possible?
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (May 28, 2010 04:31AM)
You have already said that you think it is possible above, you also said that it would probably cost a great deal of money to achieve. So you've answered your own question.

That is why I assumed that you actually WANTED a set, if that's so then the best thing to do is contact Donnie via PM and discuss your order with him.
Message: Posted by: ASW (May 28, 2010 05:37AM)
I know it's been done before by someone long dead. But whether THIS particular craftsman, with THIS particular design, is able to do it is a fair query, and entirely relevant to this thread. I know there are other people reading but not posting who would be interested in the answer, so why go to PMs? If Donnie wants to chime in, he will. If not, whatever.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (May 28, 2010 05:46AM)
I see your true intentions but I am interested in building bridges in the cup world, not finding out what's living under them.
Message: Posted by: ASW (May 28, 2010 06:08AM)
Say what? You think this is trolling?

You need to lighten up. This is a valid query.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (May 28, 2010 06:15AM)
So you ARE interested in having a set made that "rings like a bell" then? I thought you were only interested in finding out (for all those who are watching but not posting) if it could be done by;

"THIS particular craftsman, with THIS particular design"

Then, as I said, seeing as you are aware of the time and trouble it could take;

"I'm sure James Riser could meet this challenge if he was so inclined, but there's probably no money in it and he'd have to spend a lot of time on his own dime to perfect it."

..then I would (again) suggest that if you really want a set and are interested in making an investment in your "long term quest" then go for it and discuss it with Donnie via PM and get yourself a beautiful and unique set of cups :)
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (May 28, 2010 06:15AM)
Aww, shame you edited your last comment, good job I quoted it then...
Message: Posted by: ASW (May 28, 2010 06:21AM)
Yes I edited it because I thought "what's the point?" I figured you had gotten the wrong end of the stick - a hair up your ass - about something. Feel free to quote it in its entirety if you think that progresses the discussion.

Seeing your last post on the previous page, I now suspect I've wandered into some political issue specific to the C&B world (was it mentioning James Riser that did it? He was the first guy who came to mind, seeing as how I have a bunch of items from him in my collection). My query was an honest query. Sorry it lit your fuse. If Donnie wants to answer - great. If not, whatever.
Message: Posted by: ASW (May 28, 2010 06:27AM)
Seeing as how I'm being monitored for editing, I'll cut a fresh post instead of adding this to the end of my last post:

In answer to your last post on page 1: Yes, I am SERIOUSLY interested in knowing if a set that sounds normal can be made by THIS craftsman with THIS design because if they can be made I will BUY them. The cups are terrific looking - extremely attractive and I can see they are well made. Thanks for your great review - it sparked my interest and led me to your review page. You seemed like a thoughtful, analytical person.
Message: Posted by: BCS (May 28, 2010 09:28AM)
It is funny in a way how we zero in on such things as how a set of Cups sound... I have a set of RNT2 JM1 Cups, which are traditional shaped and gaffed. They are a double walled constructed and rather than making a clink, clink sound… they go flob, flob that I find just wrong. However when I have shown them to family, no one said that they sounded funny. I still can’t find a reason or routine of having each of the Cups gaffed.

For the record I like the sound of the JP Cups better than the sound of the BSM Cups... they are lower in tone.

All have a great holiday weekend,
Bruce
Message: Posted by: Donnie Buckley (May 28, 2010 09:32AM)
ASW, the Foxy 3 Combo Cups are spun from a thick gauge heavy copper with spun in inserts in each cup. There is no way that these cups are going to "ring like a bell".
The Foxy 3 straight cups are spun from a thick gauge heavy copper also - it's what makes them unique. I've never tested them for "ringing". But because they are spun from heavy copper and the mouth beads are tight, I doubt they will produce any crisp clear ringing when tapped together.
In my experience, MOST well made cups will produce a nice ring when they are tapped with a brass tipped wand though, if that helps.

I think that the cups need to be spun from silver, steel or brass to get the crispest ring from them. The infamous Bells of St. Mary's cups that RNT spun where spun from brass. RNT II spun these same cups successfully out of steel. But a ringing sound has never been a focal point for me and I have no intention of trying to spin .064 gauge brass or steel - which is a requirement for the Foxy 3! I focus pretty exclusively on finish and functionality - how the cups appear and how the cups handle. A cup for a magician is a prop for a performance art. It has a purpose and it's more important to me that the cup meets the demands of its purpose, even to the point that it makes life easier on the performer, and that it looks good doing it!

Honestly, guys ask me all the time for things I don't have. I have 130 variations of cups in stock and it NEVER fails that the question I get asked is "Do you have a framistan made from Pewter?" (Last night I got an email message written through the contact form of the web store that asked, "I was just wondering if you had any cup sets that you sell?" - I'm still trying to figure out how to answer that.)

IMO, The Foxy 3 Cup is the best cup for cups and balls that you will ever use. Period. If you don't like it because it's not spun from .064 brass or steel, then I'm sorry. I say it's the best because I perform the cups and balls and I know these cups are SMOOTH and augment/assist/compliment all the moves. That's what's important, and they look good doing it too!

And Lee, I thought I fixed that typo in the weight... I just updated it again. The straight Foxy 3 Cups average 6.3 ounces each. That's like holding 6 1/2 silver dollars - nice and beefy! (A silver dollar weights 0.94 ounces average.)
Message: Posted by: ASW (May 28, 2010 10:41PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-28 10:32, Donnie Buckley wrote:
ASW, the Foxy 3 Combo Cups are spun from a thick gauge heavy copper with spun in inserts in each cup. There is no way that these cups are going to "ring like a bell".

The Foxy 3 straight cups are spun from a thick gauge heavy copper also - it's what makes them unique. I've never tested them for "ringing". But because they are spun from heavy copper and the mouth beads are tight, I doubt they will produce any crisp clear ringing when tapped together.
In my experience, MOST well made cups will produce a nice ring when they are tapped with a brass tipped wand though, if that helps.

I think that the cups need to be spun from silver, steel or brass to get the crispest ring from them. The infamous Bells of St. Mary's cups that RNT spun where spun from brass. RNT II spun these same cups successfully out of steel. But a ringing sound has never been a focal point for me and I have no intention of trying to spin .064 gauge brass or steel - which is a requirement for the Foxy 3! I focus pretty exclusively on finish and functionality - how the cups appear and how the cups handle. A cup for a magician is a prop for a performance art. It has a purpose and it's more important to me that the cup meets the demands of its purpose, even to the point that it makes life easier on the performer, and that it looks good doing it![/quote]

Thanks for the info. I'm personally only ever interested in copper cups.

For me, the cups have to do the job, look great AND sound like cups. I'm not alone in this - some of the biggest names in magic (and cup collecting) agree with me. It may not be an issue that is discussed a lot on magic forums (though BCS mentions above he has cups that "just sound wrong" so it's not unheard of) but it certainly gets discussed when I hook up with people who do the cups. I completely respect that there are folks for whom this isn't an issue - and my query should not be taken to be some sort of criticism of your cups. Those cups look great. It just means that if I buy a set they are now likely to be the ungaffed ones for a straight routine.

[quote]Honestly, guys ask me all the time for things I don't have. I have 130 variations of cups in stock and it NEVER fails that the question I get asked is "Do you have a framistan made from Pewter?" (Last night I got an email message written through the contact form of the web store that asked, "I was just wondering if you had any cup sets that you sell?" - I'm still trying to figure out how to answer that.)[/quote]

All I can tell you is that my query is not some sort of hare-brained, tire-kicking, amateur-hour, John-question. If you want to file it under "buyers say the darndest things", well go ahead. It's a legitimate question. Combo cups have been made before that sound closer to normal and I hope they'll be made again. The guy who perfects a method to deliver them again will have a unique selling point. Something for all cup builders out there to consider.

Anyway, thanks for responding directly. It appears I stumbled into some sort of partisan issue in magic with the OP, but I'm glad I finally got an answer straight from the source.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (May 29, 2010 04:07AM)
"ASW", it was the manner in which you did it and nothing else. No politics or partisan issues of magic, nothing to do with J Riser or the dark side of the moon, sorry to dissapoint you.

If you want something making or just want to know if something can be made don't issue it as a challenge it makes you look bad.

If you want to carry on the belief that I am being political or have a beef with someone then you are free to do so but I have nothing else to say on the matter.

As for the Foxy 3's, I'm still loving them! I have not put them down. I usually practice daily with many varied sizes and weights of cups but I really like the way these feel.

Of course another advantage of their weight is when you adjust the ball correctly simply allowing the weight of the cup to dislodge the ball comes into play too making it look very natural.
Message: Posted by: ASW (May 29, 2010 04:30AM)
"mindyourmagic" - like I said, I'm glad I finally got an answer from the source.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (May 29, 2010 07:23AM)
Me too :)

My name's Bri
Message: Posted by: ASW (May 30, 2010 09:37AM)
Well, keep the reviews coming Bri.

Andrew
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 30, 2010 10:24AM)
I believe, from conversations with Mike Brazill, that the original Bells of St. Mary's were made of steel. Set number SC 003 in the museum is a set of these cups. I have had them since about 1973 or so.

Mike was over at the house, telling me about the BOSM cups, and how unlikely it would be for me to find a set of the originals, when I said, "You know, I have a set of cups that look like Monti cups, but seem to be a little different. I think they are steel."

I brought them out. He looked at them and said, "These are the ones Earl Reum called 'The Bells of St. Mary's.' " That and a fin will buy you a Veinte at Starbuck's!
Message: Posted by: Mobius303 (May 30, 2010 09:41PM)
Stainless Steel Bill....they are non ferrous and tough as nails.
They do not rust inside or out and can take a beating like no ther cups I have worked with.

Ummm....back on topic I guess.
I lied the Foxy 3 's I had the opportunity to work with. They are a good set of cups.
Message: Posted by: Dale Houck (May 31, 2010 06:40AM)
I had a set of the original RNT Bells of St. Marys cups. I could have sworn they were ferrous and a magnetic ball stuck to them. I bought them from Ron Allesi and I think they later went to a collector in Florida.
Message: Posted by: Mobius303 (May 31, 2010 09:18AM)
Wow ....i just tested my set and yes they are ferous...I stand corrected.
I had always thought they were Stainless Steel.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (May 31, 2010 09:44AM)
I have 2 sets of stainles steel Wing Chun knives and 1 set responds to a magnet, 1 doesn't, I am guesing that the content of chromium etc into the mix of alloys may have something to do with it.
Message: Posted by: kentfgunn (May 31, 2010 09:53AM)
Stainless steel contains lots of iron. Ferrous means iron. (Okay it really means a bivalent iron compound). Steel is usually a mix of iron and small amounts of carbon. Some steels are susceptible to the forces of magnetism, some aren't.

But ferrous always means iron-containing. It doesn't mean magnetic.

No criticism intended here, just trying to avoid confusion.

From physicslink.com,

As for whether they are magnetic, the answer is that it depends. There are several families of stainless steels with different physical properties. A basic stainless steel has a 'ferritic' structure and is magnetic. These are formed from the addition of chromium and can be hardened through the addition of carbon (making them 'martensitic') and are often used in cutlery. However, the most common stainless steels are 'austenitic' - these have a higher chromium content and nickel is also added. It is the nickel which modifies the physical structure of the steel and makes it non-magnetic.

Don't know why this thread made me think I was Mr. Science. I learned some stuff wandering around the web, thought somebody here might want to know. I return you now to your regularly scheduled programming . . .

KG

PS. Cups aren't bells. Donnie can correct me here, but I think good sounding bells are cast not spun. Bell metal is a kind of bronze so, I'm guessing bronze cups, would sound most like a bell. As for making a chopper that rang nicely . . . I'm clueless boy. Don't know nuttin' 'bout spinnin.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (May 31, 2010 10:09AM)
Kent,

No offence taken, I appreciate you filling in the blanks (even if it did fry my head a little, too many long words!)

Re combo cups and ringing, I would imagine it is more to do with the fact that they re not made from 1 solid piece. Bells which are specifically made to ring are cast from a single piece.

I have been told that the tightness of the mouth bead also affects the way a cup rings, though I am not Mr Science, I just like using 'em!

Bri
Message: Posted by: Donnie Buckley (May 31, 2010 03:27PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-30 11:24, Bill Palmer wrote:
I believe, from conversations with Mike Brazill, that the original Bells of St. Mary's were made of steel. Set number SC 003 in the museum is a set of these cups. I have had them since about 1973 or so.

Mike was over at the house, telling me about the BOSM cups, and how unlikely it would be for me to find a set of the originals, when I said, "You know, I have a set of cups that look like Monti cups, but seem to be a little different. I think they are steel."

I brought them out. He looked at them and said, "These are the ones Earl Reum called 'The Bells of St. Mary's.' " That and a fin will buy you a Veinte at Starbuck's!
[/quote]

Thanks for the clarification Bill. I've never held an actual set and a chance to get a set on ebay passed me by. I did a search for them on your website prior to writing my previous post and I swear your description said the original RNT Bells of St Mary's were chrome plated brass, but I just checked again, and it definitely says steel. I knew Jake had spun these cups out of steel to recreate the ring that they are famous for.

I think small bells can definitely be spun, but the classic gi-normous bells that we think of as church bells would obviously have been cast. One would want a thick wall for a resilient bell, but I've never made bells, I don't know.

Andrew, I tapped some copper cups with a brass tipped wand, mouth up.
The Foxy 3 straight Cups have a very nice ring to them, higher pitched than a Paul Fox cup does. The Foxy 3 Combos have a duller sound, but that's natural as they contain two layers of copper in the attic area. I wish I had some sort of a pitch analyzer so I could tell you at exactly what pitch they resonate, but I don't really know a thing about that! If I can find something that would do that for me, I could include that kind of info in the Specifications of the cups (how cool would that be!) And, surprisingly I only find a slight variance when tapping the cup with an ebony tipped wand. I think a drumstick would be a good tool to use to test the resonance of a cup. The table surface probably fluctuates the tone more than anything.
It's a complicated questions, and you've got me thinking about it now!
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 31, 2010 04:38PM)
These definitely are regular steel, not stainless.

BTW, regarding cup metals and ringing -- there are copper cups that ring fairly well, that is, they will clink, instead of going, flob or bonk. However, I have never seen a set of pure copper bells, not even cowbells. Pure copper is a lousy metal for bells. It's just too soft, unless it work hardens.

However, bronze is an entirely different matter. Most bells are made of a bronze alloy. If you go to http://www.bronzebells.com/whybronze.htm, you will get the impression that bell bronze and bell metal are synonymous and that bell bronze is 80% copper and 20% tin, with no impurities. That's a very simplistic view of bell metals. Austrian bells are made with other alloys that may have other metals added to the mix.

This site mentions Admiralty bronze, which has some good acoustical properties, but there are also some bronzes that are yellow in color, such as Tobin bronze, which has some additional elements, including zinc and lead. There are those that characterize this as brass because of the presence of zinc, but it is still listed as a bronze in most machinist's guides.

The reason I mention this is that you can have two metals that look identical, but sound quite different.

There are, indeed, a number of professional C & B workers who want a really nice ring to their cups -- Paul Gertner is one. Dick Hatch is another.

But it's a non-issue to most cups and balls workers.

I've noticed that many cups and balls workers obsess over minutiae. Some will say that they don't want to use cups that are manufactured for the trick, because they don't look like anything that someone would actually drink from. Some even go so far as to say that it is either impossible or difficult to drink from a cup with a rolled mouth bead.

Some even say that if you can't drink from it, it isn't a cup.

NONSENSE!

Has anyone here ever tried to drink from a bra cup? Or a cup that is used for "protection"?

I'm in Europe right now. I was at the Hungarian National Museum, and was given permission to photograph some cups in their collection. You would be surprised at some of the things I saw that were used for DRINKING!

Most of the excuses we make for not liking a certain kind of cup start as simple opinions then turn into obsessions. After gathering together more than 1500 sets of cups and related items, I have come to the conclusion that there are very few sets of cups that cannot be used for the cups and balls to one degree or another.

There is also no single "right set of cups for everyone."

Frank Garcia and many other professionals really like/liked the Paul Fox cups. Others preferred the Monti cups. Still others preferred the P&L cups, and others prefer the Sherwoods.

And there are those who prefer to work with a set of borrowed cups. Bob Read worked with teacups that he picked up on the spot.

If you want a set of copper cups that ring like a bell, you might want to try a good set of brass cups and have them heavily copper plated. Or you might do that with a steel set. There is a reason that musicians have percussion instruments that are made of certain materials. They sound right for the job.
Message: Posted by: Mobius303 (May 31, 2010 04:46PM)
Donnie I will bring my Original set of RNT Cups when next we meet.
Message: Posted by: tdowell (May 31, 2010 09:39PM)
Donnie is really doing a nice job with his products. These Foxy III's look fantastic.

Hey Donnie: How about some Foxy III's in STERLING SILVER!!!
Message: Posted by: djkuttdecks (May 31, 2010 10:18PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-31 22:39, tdowell wrote:
Donnie is really doing a nice job with his products. These Foxy III's look fantastic.

Hey Donnie: How about some Foxy III's in STERLING SILVER!!!
[/quote]

good grief that would cost a fortune!
Message: Posted by: tdowell (Jun 1, 2010 12:25AM)
[quote]
good grief that would cost a fortune!
[/quote]

Not really. The mini PF's in sterling run under $500. Sherwoods run around $1,700. Its all relative but I can see these coming in at a reasonable cost under $1K in sterling and they would be gorgeous.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Jun 1, 2010 05:35AM)
[quote]
Hey Donnie: How about some Foxy III's in STERLING SILVER!!!
[/quote]

(In his best Homer Simpson voice)

"Sillll - verrrrrr"
Message: Posted by: ASW (Jun 1, 2010 05:47AM)
Just to clarify, I don't want cups that ring like the Bells of Notre Dame or some high society crystal glass. I want copper cups that go clang-g-g-g like copper cups that a street magician would use. My ungaffed copper cups make a nice metallic racket when I hit them with a brass wand tip. But they don't go "donk" or "flub" like some of the combo cups I have owned.

Just so you know I am talking from experience and don't have unrealistic expectations.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Jun 1, 2010 06:56AM)
Have you contacted any makers and asked them to create a set for you?

I wanted a set of cups that would perform in a certain way and which were vastly different to the cups we have grown to know and love. I actually invested a hefty sum into it.

They couldn't be made in a traditional way so they had to be cast, the problem being that what was being asked of the cups was right at the edge of what we were asking that material to do.

After 60 attempts we decided to put the idea on the back burner and I am currently looking into another way of making a prototype in another material (steep learning curve for me learning how to use some complex software though.)

My point is that if you want it badly, ask someone to make them and work with them, I'll get mine made eventually but it'll probably drive me insane!!!!
Message: Posted by: Dale Houck (Jun 1, 2010 08:09AM)
I echo the sentiment of having the new Foxy III cups spun in sterling and have expressed that to Donnie. I will be ecstatic, however, if they come in under $1k. Donnie told me there is virtually no profit in the mini Paul Fox sterling cups. He's operating a business and has to make the business pay its way. My Paul Fox mini sterling cups weigh about 2.5 oz. each and my Foxy III copper cups weigh about 6 oz. each. That tells me that Foxy III cups in sterling at $1k would also put him in a position where there is virtually no profit. I want him to make them, but when (if) he does, I'm ready to pay a price that will give him some profit margin.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Jun 1, 2010 09:42AM)
Yeah, that's a lot of silver! I like mine the way they are but I guess silver plating would be an option for people too...
Message: Posted by: Donnie Buckley (Jun 1, 2010 12:15PM)
If you know me, you know I have Magpie Syndrome: an attraction to shiny objects.
I want ALL cups in Sterling Silver!
Financing a cup set in sterling is pretty steep. The real problem with the costs of production is that the silver had a tendency to crack when I start the mouth beads and there was a lot of loss taking place... That Argentium Sterling Silver is totally new to me and I went through so many silver blanks just to get a dozen sets of PF Mini cups, it was ridiculous. I can't jack up the price to cover the time and materials that were lost in production, so I just eat it - hence, the cups get made and we don't make any money off them. At least the cups got made!

But, yes, eventually I'd like to make the PF Cups and the Foxy 3 in sterling silver.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Jun 1, 2010 12:31PM)
Donnie, you may find this interesting....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJDkXyvNkJM

Bri
Message: Posted by: ASW (Jun 2, 2010 07:50AM)
Brian - I don't personally know too many people making cups. I had a quite expensive custom set made. The set was beautiful - a fantastic, classical style with the most gorgeous copper patina of any cups I've ever owned - and heavy as anything. They looked and felt and worked just fine but after awhile the sound didn't do it for me. So now they are in Bill's museum. They are a one of a kind, custom set, never to be repeated - the nicest looking cups I have ever owned.

So the answer is, yes, if it can be done properly I will pay for it. My mission now is to find out who can do it and is willing to do it - and so we return to my initial interest in this thread.

I may ask Joe Porper about this as I know he's always up for a challenge.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Jun 2, 2010 08:03AM)
I think tenactiy may prove worth while :) I have not given up on my initial quest (though my arms grew shorter than the insides of my pockets at one point), I'm sure we will both get there... eventually!

Bri
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jun 2, 2010 09:26AM)
I was at Jimmy Bix's Magic Shop last night in Vienna. He has a set of jumbo Willi Seidl cups that are made of copper. Two of them ring almost like a bell. The third rings at a tone 1/2 step below the tone of the other two.

BTW, you might contact Auke van Dokkum and see if he would be interested in making a set of copper combo cups. I know he really isn't fond of machining copper in his CNC outfit. He says that it tends to gall. However, he might be interested in trying it.
Message: Posted by: ASW (Jun 2, 2010 02:05PM)
Thanks Bill!
Message: Posted by: tdowell (Jun 2, 2010 11:53PM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-01 13:15, Donnie Buckley wrote:
If you know me, you know I have Magpie Syndrome: an attraction to shiny objects.
I want ALL cups in Sterling Silver!
Financing a cup set in sterling is pretty steep. The real problem with the costs of production is that the silver had a tendency to crack when I start the mouth beads and there was a lot of loss taking place... That Argentium Sterling Silver is totally new to me and I went through so many silver blanks just to get a dozen sets of PF Mini cups, it was ridiculous. I can't jack up the price to cover the time and materials that were lost in production, so I just eat it - hence, the cups get made and we don't make any money off them. At least the cups got made!

But, yes, eventually I'd like to make the PF Cups and the Foxy 3 in sterling silver.
[/quote]

I stand corrected Donny, and appreciate my silver mini PF cups more than ever. Actually I was also thinking about the steep rise in the price of silver lately and the cost might be fairly closer to $2K for a set. Still cheap for sterling cups. I'll be interested to see how much and if Brett ever makes another run of silver engraved.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 13, 2010 11:13AM)
My Foxy III Combo Cups arrived this morning. What a delightful set of cups! I'll have photos up on Monday.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Aug 13, 2010 11:37AM)
Bill,

They're nice ain't they? ;)

I seem to recall you having a hand in the design of these a while back on here?

Bri
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 13, 2010 01:09PM)
Not really that much. Maybe a few suggestions.

These were really Donnie's idea.
Message: Posted by: Grasshop34 (Jun 1, 2013 10:05AM)
Does anyone know if the foxy 3 cups can do the roll back move like the Mendoza cups can? I'm still trying to decide which combo set to buy. Thanks
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Jun 1, 2013 10:41AM)
Yes they will, however they have a little more bias towards being mouth up than the Mendozas. If you normally catch the cup back in the hand when it is saddle towards the audience then you will be fine with both cups.

For a full roll back (360) then you want a cup that is not double skinned or chopped as a rule.
Message: Posted by: Grasshop34 (Jun 1, 2013 10:58AM)
Thanks do much for the info. Your posts are very appreciated in the Café.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Jun 1, 2013 12:43PM)
You're welcome, and thank you.
Message: Posted by: Ray Haining (Jun 2, 2013 10:04AM)
Very informative thread.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Jun 2, 2013 12:14PM)
By the way, those cups now have the most beautiful coffee coloured patina.... (sorry Donnie!)
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Jan 7, 2021 08:04AM)
My Foxy 3 Combo Set in Satin Copper arrived yesterday, and, I must say that THESE ARE, QUITE SIMPLY........MAGNIFICENT!!!

I love 'em!!!