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Topic: Max Maven Multiplicity dvd from LLPub
Message: Posted by: Jean-Luc.R. (Oct 15, 2010 05:26PM)
The wait is over, and max maven’s multiplicity is here.
In this remarkable dvd you will learn techniques and subtleties involving equivoque and multiple outs, including ideas revealed for the very first time, plus over two dozen routines. join Max and special guest Eugene Burger, for an utterly irresistible combination of mystery, surprise and insightful absurdity.

Should be shipped on October 29!
Message: Posted by: Prager (Oct 15, 2010 05:49PM)
Where can we buy it my friend?
Message: Posted by: Domino Magic (Oct 15, 2010 06:01PM)
L&L is having a pre-release sale, so if you buy it directly from them, you save $10.

The demo video and details are on L&L's site: [url]http://www.llpub.com[/url]
Message: Posted by: Jean-Luc.R. (Oct 15, 2010 06:10PM)
Video demo from youtube almost 10 minutes

Link

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=7xiRLU8abCY&bmb=1
Message: Posted by: Tony Chris (Oct 15, 2010 07:26PM)
I put in my order. Can't wait to get it!

Tony
Message: Posted by: EricDraven (Oct 15, 2010 07:58PM)
Great news!
Message: Posted by: Futureal (Oct 15, 2010 08:11PM)
What's up with the weird inserts showing different camera angles?
Message: Posted by: Amirá (Oct 15, 2010 08:29PM)
L&L`s video edition work looks awful.

But this material will be amazing
Message: Posted by: Domino Magic (Oct 15, 2010 08:38PM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-15 21:29, Amirá wrote:
L&L`s video edition work looks awful.

But this material will be amazing
[/quote]

What do you mean "video edition work"? That doesn't make sense.

Are you talking about the quality of the demo video? If so, it's just a demo that is on YouTube and certainly not the final quality of the DVD. Every L&L DVD I've ever seen is broadcast quality.
Message: Posted by: Amirá (Oct 15, 2010 09:15PM)
I mean the Video effects and the transtitions
Message: Posted by: Mentalist Sam (Oct 15, 2010 09:23PM)
If you look at other L&L demo videos on YouTube, you will see they all have transitions in between the effects. That's just on the YouTube video and not part of the DVD.

So there are discussions about the L&L audiences, now I guess there will be discussions about L&L's demo videos. Maybe one day there will be serious discussions about the actual content of the DVDs.

On a more positive note, this looks like a fantastic DVD and am looking forward to watching it. I've heard rumors about this for a couple of years. Nice to see it's finally released!
Message: Posted by: The great Gumbini (Oct 15, 2010 11:42PM)
It's Max Maven and Eugene Burger there is no way for it NOT to be good.


Good magic to all,


Eric
Message: Posted by: MikeTheRed (Oct 16, 2010 11:05AM)
For me the study of material Max Maven has put out has always made me a better performer and mentalist (except for one random packet trick). My order is in. Looking forward to spending time studying this dvd.

Mike
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Oct 16, 2010 01:55PM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-16 00:42, The great Gumbini wrote:
It's Max Maven and Eugene Burger there is no way for it NOT to be good.


Good magic to all,


Eric
[/quote]

Wow, don't think he has had anything out since NOTHING. Burger and Maven back in the studio again. Got to be good!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Decomp
Message: Posted by: Looch (Oct 16, 2010 02:31PM)
Very much looking forward to this. Max is such an inspiration
Message: Posted by: lucavolpe (Oct 16, 2010 02:46PM)
Wow guys this will be VERY gooood!!!
Message: Posted by: Magical Dimensions (Oct 16, 2010 03:51PM)
Can you guys say, "INTERESTING?" LOL



Ray
Message: Posted by: mayniac (Oct 16, 2010 06:26PM)
I loved that effect in the demo with the two bags! It really has stuck with me from when I saw it yesterday!
Message: Posted by: Josh Chaikin (Oct 16, 2010 08:52PM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-15 21:11, Futureal wrote:
What's up with the weird inserts showing different camera angles?
[/quote]

Probably to show different outcomes and how to handle them, given the subject matter of the DVD.
Message: Posted by: Mentalist Sam (Oct 16, 2010 11:10PM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-16 21:52, Josh Chaikin wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-10-15 21:11, Futureal wrote:
What's up with the weird inserts showing different camera angles?
[/quote]

Probably to show different outcomes and how to handle them, given the subject matter of the DVD.
[/quote]

No, that's not the reason. Max commented on it on The Genii Forum:

[url]http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=230970[/url]

There's also a little more info about the DVD in that thread as well.
Message: Posted by: Domino Magic (Oct 17, 2010 01:08PM)
This was just mentioned on The Genii Forum, but L and L put up a second demo video showing two other routines. It's on YouTube:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWuzC5rJJnQ[/url]
Message: Posted by: Joe Mauro (Oct 17, 2010 01:29PM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-17 14:08, Domino Magic wrote:
This was just mentioned on The Genii Forum, but L and L put up a second demo video showing two other routines. It's on YouTube:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWuzC5rJJnQ[/url]
[/quote]

Thank you for taking the time to share that. My order is now in.
Message: Posted by: Dompa (Oct 25, 2010 04:42PM)
Does anyone know if this will be available from murphysmagic.com???
Message: Posted by: Jean-Luc.R. (Oct 25, 2010 06:32PM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-25 17:42, Dompa wrote:
Does anyone know if this will be available from murphysmagic.com???
[/quote]


It always does
Message: Posted by: Dompa (Oct 26, 2010 04:36AM)
[quote]It always does [/quote]

Hope so! Thanks for the fast reply!
Message: Posted by: Jean-Luc.R. (Oct 26, 2010 07:00AM)
Llpublishing sent me an email saying
That it will ship nov 1
Message: Posted by: Axel (Oct 26, 2010 12:40PM)
Mr. Burger's reaction on "handout" is really nice.
And the performance is really charming and with a nice sense of humor.
Looks great!

Best,

Lexa
Message: Posted by: Exitmat (Oct 26, 2010 12:45PM)
Very nice. This is sure to be good.
Message: Posted by: Kjellstrom (Oct 27, 2010 09:40AM)
This is on my wishlist after watching the great trailers.
Max is superb, as always.
Message: Posted by: Cris Johnson (Nov 5, 2010 02:57PM)
Just got this. So far, GREAT DVD, BUT Max does NOT explain the effect with the 2 bags and the brick. that's certainly his right, but I wish he would have included a "performance only" tag for that effect because I feel rather frustrated by that not being explained.
Message: Posted by: jonnyboy (Nov 5, 2010 03:39PM)
That is very unfortunate, because this is fabulous effect, superbly presented on the demo.
Message: Posted by: Markymark (Nov 5, 2010 04:18PM)
I'm sure many people[me] loved the look of the 2 bag effect.It's what made me buy the set. The 5 coin effect is everything I hate about Ev.
Message: Posted by: Cris Johnson (Nov 5, 2010 04:58PM)
I'm very disappointed that the brick effect is not explained, but this is still a superb release. In particular, the "song title" presentation (forgot the title) has REALLY got me excited in a number of different directions. GREAT DVD so far, with one glaring fault (in my view).
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Nov 6, 2010 03:10PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-05 17:58, Cris Johnson wrote:
I'm very disappointed that the brick effect is not explained, but this is still a superb release. In particular, the "song title" presentation (forgot the title) has REALLY got me excited in a number of different directions. GREAT DVD so far, with one glaring fault (in my view).
[/quote]

I believe its "Tune-Up"

That one glaring fault is huge.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mindbender (Nov 6, 2010 03:28PM)
I've learned so much from Max Maven, enough to last a lifetime, so it's difficult for me to criticize. But I too am extremely disappointed that the brick effect is performance only. It's not as much that it's not explained, because Max has every right to be the one to decide what he wants to share and what he chooses not to share. BUT, the way the effect is used to sell the DVD, it just seems wrong to me.

Thinking through the possible justification for this, I'd say that only performing the first effect and not explaining it demonstrates that a simple 50/50 proposition, presented correctly, can indeed make a strong impact. We who are upset that the effect is not explained are proof of that!

That said, it's still a terrific DVD. A wonderful value.
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Nov 6, 2010 03:52PM)
I believe Mindbender is correct. It illustrates that a 50/50 choice presented correctly can be very powerful.

Robert
Message: Posted by: Domino Magic (Nov 6, 2010 03:56PM)
The DVD has a fantastic, honest review here in the review section [url]http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=388265&forum=111&3[/url] and certainly worth continuing the conversation over there as well.

The fact that the brick routine wasn't included in the explanations didn't bother me because it wasn't the only routine from the demo videos that wasn't explained. There was another routine taken from the Tour De Force section(the routines that were performed but not explained)that was included on the demo. Max gave us everything we needed to understand how to perform all these routines, including the brick routine. I worked out a way to do it. The method is there. The whole DVD is about the method. You just need to work out the script.
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Nov 6, 2010 04:19PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-06 16:56, Domino Magic wrote:
The DVD has a fantastic, honest review here in the review section [url]http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=388265&forum=111&3[/url] and certainly worth continuing the conversation over there as well.

The fact that the brick routine wasn't included in the explanations didn't bother me because it wasn't the only routine from the demo videos that wasn't explained. There was another routine taken from the Tour De Force section(the routines that were performed but not explained)that was included on the demo. Max gave us everything we needed to understand how to perform all these routines, including the brick routine. I worked out a way to do it. The method is there. The whole DVD is about the method. You just need to work out the script.
[/quote]

Working out the routine is not the issue imo. The Demo helped make the sell, but I believe we wanted to see the out. Its what he says and the result.
Message: Posted by: Domino Magic (Nov 6, 2010 04:33PM)
But the same can be said for the other routine that was part of the demo that wasn't explained on the DVD.
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Nov 6, 2010 04:49PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-06 17:33, Domino Magic wrote:
But the same can be said for the other routine that was part of the demo that wasn't explained on the DVD.
[/quote]

It was the Brick that sold it imho. The other wasn't as strong. Like I said, working the 50/50 is not the issue.
Message: Posted by: Domino Magic (Nov 6, 2010 05:01PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-06 17:49, Steven Conner wrote:

It was the Brick that sold it imho.
[/quote]

I don't agree at all. This was a highly anticipated DVD. A lot of people knew about this release because it was leaked in an L&L catalog several years ago. In this thread and another one on The Genii forum, only one person mentions the brick prior to the purchase. In my opinion, it was the fact that Max has work on Equivoque that everyone was looking forward to and the added bonus that Eugene Burger was part of the project too. Maybe it was the brick that sold you, but that's a shame because you've missed out on so much more. I'm not saying you're wrong. It's your opinion, so I can respect that. Just don't assume that everyone bought this because of the brick routine.
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Nov 6, 2010 05:32PM)
Two projects that everyone wanted Max to work on was the Gilbreath Principle and Equivoque. I appreciate your views and agree there is much to be had within the DVD. The Brick was not what sold me as it led me to believe what I knew all along about Max and his mystick. As a working Pro, I have used many of Max's ideas. Magic has taken such a turn that while it is called (marketing), don't use just a performance to sell.

Best,
Message: Posted by: Badger (Nov 6, 2010 05:45PM)
After receiving this I feel like I was very mislead by the trailer because I specifically bought the DVD for the brick in bag effect because I had a specific use in mind for that particular effect. That effect alone was worth the $65 to me and I didn't get it.
Message: Posted by: Mentalist Sam (Nov 6, 2010 06:32PM)
There's more discussion about the demo video with an explanation on The Genii Forum [url]http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=232371&#Post232371[/url]
Message: Posted by: edh (Nov 6, 2010 07:00PM)
I don't understand why there were effects on the demo that did not make it to the DVD.

A demo of the product is used to sell it.

Steve over at Genii says that it was his decision as to what would appear on the demos. He mentioned two effects that are on the demo and not included on DVD.

Not good. that's my opinion
Message: Posted by: Domino Magic (Nov 6, 2010 07:12PM)
Ed,

I think you're misunderstanding the situation. Everything on the demo videos is on the DVD. The problem some are having is that one effect on the demo doesn't have an out that is explained. There is an out for it, in fact if you put some thought into it, there are several outs. Personally I feel that the demo is an accurate representation of the DVD, but that is my opinion. Others have their opinion and don't feel the same way. I think what was explained on The Genii Forum is a fair explanation of why the demos are the way they are.
Message: Posted by: Colin (Nov 6, 2010 07:19PM)
I think I love it! What a great idea and good on him!

Finally someone getting us to challenge the way we think and actually be a LITTLE bit creative. Yeah, maybe it shouldn't have been on the trailer, but come on, SO many ploys you could used as outs... hidden messages scattered around places, or even Canasta's technique for getting them to change their mind!

I haven't got this DVD yet, but I think I'm looking forward to it even more now knowing that Max doesn't have to waste 3 hours explaining each effect. He's giving us the tools to create our own and letting us decide where we take it.

Like I said, I'm even more excited about seeing this DVD now. I got to spend the tiniest amount of time with Eugene in Vegas too and the man is just wonderful!

Best wishes,
Colin Mcleod
Message: Posted by: Dr. Eamon (Nov 6, 2010 07:38PM)
Max has never ever disappointed me. He is one of the very best teachers in mentalism.

I would not even mind if he would not explain one effect on his DVD and still buy it! To watch his presentation over and over again is the best learning experience I have ever had. His DVD ´A Fabulous Monster´ is one of the best DVD´s in mentalism… NO EXPLANATIONS and I have learned so much from it, not to copy his presentation but to learn from it and use it for my own style. I don´t have this DVD yet but I´m sure that if you study the DVD well, you can do the Brick effect and many many more…

Best,
John
Message: Posted by: BlueOwl (Nov 6, 2010 07:39PM)
First off, I would like to say that after one watch, the only thing I know for sure is that I'm going to have to watch this DVD a lot, and put in some practice, practice, and practice. This one is deep.

I too was very excited to see the possible outs for "Handout," and was initially disappointed. To be honest I skipped around the DVD searching for the explanation. After I was unable to locate the "Handout" explanation I bitterly settled in to watch Max and Eugene. My bitterness quickly faded as they presented me with a treasure trove of information. I soon realized, that like many great educators, Max provided all of the necessary information to explain "Handout," but we have to put the pieces together and discover it for ourselves. Think of it as a scaffolded lesson. Best of all, once one works out a solution, they are equipped with a powerful tool rather than one specific method.

After only one view, and no practice, I can't give an accurate review of the DVD. But, I am loving Multiplicity.

~ Nathan
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mindbender (Nov 6, 2010 07:52PM)
It's important to make sure the headline doesn't get buried -- the headline being, this is a WONDERFUL DVD. I've said it, many others who were disappointed that Handout wasn't fully explained have said it as well.

This isn't a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" situation. Just because some of us have a small criticism of how the DVD was marketed doesn't mean the DVD is bad. I read L&L Steve's explanation on the Genii forum and accept it. It was a decision he made. I've bought many fantastic DVDs from L&L, so their professionalism isn't in question with me. An occasional decision, maybe, but hey, I question an occasional decision by my own wife, and I still love her!
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Nov 6, 2010 08:08PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-06 20:12, Domino Magic wrote:
Ed,

I think you're misunderstanding the situation. Everything on the demo videos is on the DVD. The problem some are having is that one effect on the demo doesn't have an out that is explained. There is an out for it, in fact if you put some thought into it, there are several outs. Personally I feel that the demo is an accurate representation of the DVD, but that is my opinion. Others have their opinion and don't feel the same way. I think what was explained on The Genii Forum is a fair explanation of why the demos are the way they are.
[/quote]

No, there is no out. You need to watch the entire DVD. Max played a joke on us. Good one, Max. :)

Robert
Message: Posted by: Domino Magic (Nov 6, 2010 08:33PM)
There isn't an out explained (hence the "controversy") and Max may have intended it as a joke, but there IS an out. Several in fact. It just takes a little thought to understand the possibilities. And that is the best part of this because those who do put in some work with this will have something unique to them. Your presentation will not resemble Max's.
Message: Posted by: Domino Magic (Nov 6, 2010 09:02PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-06 21:08, Robert M wrote:

No, there is no out.
[/quote]

And just to emphasize my point that there is an out if you put a few moments of thought into it, here is just one example: [url]http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/search_post.php?topic=388265&forum=111&post=6811136[/url]
Message: Posted by: Ben Harris (Nov 6, 2010 09:34PM)
It's all there. You just need to think about it.

Benny
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Nov 6, 2010 10:17PM)
Man, I want this dvd. I don't mind at all that the explanation of handout wasn't on the dvd. After all, it's a dvd about equivoque and multiple outs so... what's there to explain. I'm sure I could work out my own presentation. Plus, I would never do personally do the effect so it doesn't matter to me. :)

BTW, I don't think Handout was a joke. Why would he talk about the power of 50/50 and then proceed to do an effect which couldn't be done. Of course it can be done! it would have underminded the whole project if it was a "gag".
Message: Posted by: Caliban (Nov 7, 2010 03:56AM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-06 21:33, Domino Magic wrote:
There isn't an out explained (hence the "controversy") and Max may have intended it as a joke, but there IS an out. Several in fact. It just takes a little thought to understand the possibilities. And that is the best part of this because those who do put in some work with this will have something unique to them. Your presentation will not resemble Max's.
[/quote]

To me, the difference is that, if a Max teaches his routine on DVD then all purchasers of that DVD have his permission to perform it. But if you watch Max do a "performance only" of a routine and then work out a method - that wouldn't normally give you the right to perform the effect yourself.
Message: Posted by: voh002 (Nov 7, 2010 04:17AM)
If someone buys a product on the basis of what is shown as an advertisement for the DVD and this effect is not explained in the video, I find it hard to see that this should not be misleading advertising. I think the production company should have shown a different effect in the advertising.

Anyway, it's probably a good dvd overall and I am looking forward to buy it myself.
Message: Posted by: Mentalist Sam (Nov 7, 2010 07:05AM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-07 05:17, voh002 wrote:
If someone buys a product on the basis of what is shown as an advertisement for the DVD and this effect is not explained in the video, I find it hard to see that this should not be misleading advertising.
[/quote]

You're trying to make a very broad statement with your post, one that assumes everyone bought this DVD because of the brick routine. I didn't. That's not the type of routine I would ever perform and really bought it for every other reason EXCEPT that routine. So for me and based on the comments I've seen in this thread, it was hardly misleading advertising. There is an explanation for the brick by the way, it's just not what you're expecting.

I bought this DVD so that I could finally master this technique which I've been avoiding over the past 25 years. This DVD was refreshing compared to so many products that come out on the market lately that only work if you stick with the supplied script. Max shows you how to use a set of tools and it's up to you as to how you want to use them.

[quote]
On 2010-11-07 04:56, Caliban wrote:

To me, the difference is that, if a Max teaches his routine on DVD then all purchasers of that DVD have his permission to perform it. But if you watch Max do a "performance only" of a routine and then work out a method - that wouldn't normally give you the right to perform the effect yourself.
[/quote]

That's not the case on this DVD because there are many performance only routines. And again, as has been stated several times, there is an explanation for the brick or rather the question is answered 'what is the out if the person picks the bag with the brick'. Someone stated on another forum and I believe this to be correct, the explanation given was true for that performance and given another set of circumstances Max's presentation would be different.
Message: Posted by: Exitmat (Nov 7, 2010 07:09AM)
The "preview" did not "preview" what was taught on the DVD--a DVD that is being marketed and sold as an instructional DVD, not a performance DVD.
Message: Posted by: Colin (Nov 7, 2010 07:24AM)
But isn't the DVD all about equivoke and multiple outs? I guarantee the method is equivoke or multiple outs :) .
Message: Posted by: Domino Magic (Nov 7, 2010 07:56AM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-07 08:09, Exitmat wrote:
The "preview" did not "preview" what was taught on the DVD--a DVD that is being marketed and sold as an instructional DVD, not a performance DVD.
[/quote]

Sure it was. It was explained. You just don't like the explanation. There is more than enough information taught on the DVD to do the brick routine.
Message: Posted by: Amirá (Nov 7, 2010 08:29AM)
This " Brick Trick" topic is incredible funny.


I don't have the DVD yet, but I KNOW that Mr. Maven did that on propuse.
E$·"%·"voque is a flexible technique... and I KNOW that Mr. Maven gives the proper ideas to came up with your own solution for the "Brick Trick" .

Just read between lines and you will get it. Is all in the attitude and in the words.

If you believe, they will believe.
Message: Posted by: Paul Carnazzo (Nov 7, 2010 09:33AM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-06 16:28, Mr. Mindbender wrote:

Thinking through the possible justification for this, I'd say that only performing the first effect and not explaining it demonstrates that a simple 50/50 proposition, presented correctly, can indeed make a strong impact. We who are upset that the effect is not explained are proof of that!

That said, it's still a terrific DVD. A wonderful value.
[/quote]

That's the best way to look at it. The "brick effect" can be accomplished...there is a little more to it than what you see...and equivoque is NOT the method!

The "explanation" that Max does offer is priceless...and Eugene's reaction is great! I don't think I've ever laughed that hard watching an instructional DVD!

The DVD is full of great ideas and is a wise investment for anyone interested in the topics covered.
Message: Posted by: voh002 (Nov 7, 2010 10:21AM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-07 08:05, Mentalist Sam wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-11-07 05:17, voh002 wrote:
If someone buys a product on the basis of what is shown as an advertisement for the DVD and this effect is not explained in the video, I find it hard to see that this should not be misleading advertising.
[/quote]

You're trying to make a very broad statement with your post, one that assumes everyone bought this DVD because of the brick routine. [quote]
On 2010-11-07 04:56, Caliban wrote:

I didn´t say everybody, I said somebody. I see that one can read between the lines what the solution to the brick trick is. It is also said that Max Maven didn´t add the explanation for this effect on purpose. I must just say that it's a bad strategy, no matter how one looks at it. Negativity around a product is negative advertising. It should have been a lot of positive reviews, but now people are irritated and there is a negative focus, on a probably great product.
Message: Posted by: Gerry Hennessey (Nov 7, 2010 02:24PM)
Re: Handout. The Brick and Feather Routine.
The Explanation (Unauthorized)

"Now Eugene, before the cameras roll, let me explain. I've got two festive bags here. The one on your left contains something that could do you some serious damage and cripple your hand forever. Actually, it's a brick.

So, do pick the one on the right and we can both continue our careers in good health. At the same time, imagine the confusion amongst mentalists watching this, as they search in vain for an explanation that doesn't exist. Mentalism is such fun".

"Max, you're a very clever man"

"I know Eugene, I know. So let's get on with shooting this shall we? I have really more important things to do".

------------------

In some well appointed apartment somewhere, I'm sure Max is sipping green tea, reading the DVD reviews and chuckling to himself, before returning to researching books on Kabuki Theatre.

Gerry
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Nov 7, 2010 02:51PM)
What I think happened was that Max decided to pull a prank on his dear friend, Eugene.

The way Max worded the presentation, it could not be equivoque - there was no out. "The bag you select is the one we will use. I will unclip the bag and dump the contents on your hand." Or words to that effect.

So, at the end of the shoot, Eugene asked about the out for the "brick trick". And, Max said, "There was no out" and walked away. The look on Eugene's face is priceless. After a minute or two he begins to laugh and that's the end of the DVD. I do not think Eugene was in on it.

Granted, using "Handout" as the promo for the DVD was a mistake. But, I don't think anyone was consciously trying to mislead or trick people into buying the DVD. That may be what happened, but I don't think it was intentional.

JMHO,
Robert
Message: Posted by: Cris Johnson (Nov 7, 2010 04:55PM)
Robert,

I too thought the reaction of Eugene was PRICELESS. I too have worked out methods of doing it without Max's explanations. I still feel it was a bit misleading using that effect to sell the DVD. That said, it's still an awesome DVD and worth every penny. I've met both Eugene and Max (Mox on multiple occasions) and they are the BEST instructors in magic bar none.

Off topic, anyone else laugh HYSTERICALLY at the "editing gag" Max had on Nothing? I thought it was great and emailed him specifically on that.

Cris
Message: Posted by: Domino Magic (Nov 7, 2010 05:40PM)
Max & Eugene work so well together. It was obvious (to me anyway) that Eugene's reactions were genuine and not an act. He was surprised with the brick and was genuinely amazed by some of the presentations.
Message: Posted by: The great Gumbini (Nov 7, 2010 08:02PM)
Well I believe if you watch how he holds the bags you may have some hint as to how it is done. I have performed an identical effect using a good size rock. You will never get hurt on either bag chosen.


Good magic to all,


Eric
Message: Posted by: Snidini (Nov 7, 2010 08:14PM)
Has anyone found the Easter Eggs that have been hidden within the DVD? I think that too may reveal some info on the Brick & Feather.
Message: Posted by: The great Gumbini (Nov 7, 2010 08:20PM)
One hint. There are several items that can damage a hand ONE is a brick (or rock like I use). that's all I will say. I know you can figure this out. BTW keep your thinking simple on this. Listen to what Max says at the beginning. One of the themes of our exploration is "simplicity". Max says in his intro of Eugene that we as magicians take basic ideas and throw them away but Eugene takes the throw away items and makes them into something that is really good. This is the solution to this. In this case simplicity is the answer.


Good magic to all,


Eric
Message: Posted by: rockthemike (Nov 7, 2010 08:23PM)
I also believe you could achieve that effect with Andrew Mayne's Freefall principle.
Message: Posted by: jsheas (Nov 9, 2010 03:21PM)
Why couldn't you set both bags up identically (have a brick in the bottom of each bag with a feather resting on top of each).

After the first bag is chosen squeeze the brick through the bag while inverted so just the feather drops out. Remove the bag from the table, partially crumble it if you want to.

Bag 2, you reach in and palm/steal the feather or double stick tape it to the inside of the bag while reaching in to "open it up fully". Dump the brick out, feather stays in the bag.

Your Welcome
Message: Posted by: Mind Guerrilla (Nov 9, 2010 03:37PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-09 16:21, jsheas wrote:
Why couldn't you set both bags up identically (have a brick in the bottom of each bag with a feather resting on top of each).

After the first bag is chosen squeeze the brick through the bag while inverted so just the feather drops out. Remove the bag from the table, partially crumble it if you want to.

Bag 2, you reach in and palm/steal the feather or double stick tape it to the inside of the bag while reaching in to "open it up fully". Dump the brick out, feather stays in the bag.

Your Welcome
[/quote]
You could but I think if the bag with the brick is chosen it adds to the impact if the performer can fold up or crush the other bag, establishing there was ever only one brick.
Message: Posted by: jsheas (Nov 9, 2010 04:41PM)
Well then you can present it like someone mentioned in the DVD review section with a hundred dollar bill and 1 brick.

My point was with a little thinking you don't need Max Maven to show you his out, if there even was one.
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Nov 9, 2010 07:23PM)
There are obviously ways to do this effect using equivoque, but I don't think there was an "out" for the brick trick the way it was presented.

Max dropped the bag that was chosen on the floor, and it appeared to be as light as a, well... feather. I don't think there was a brick in it.

Eugene's reactions on the demo were classic. I could be wrong, but I don't think he was in on it at that point.

I think Max deserved to have a bit of fun with Eugene and us after 3 hours of demonstrations and explanations. I think every magician - beginner or pro will benefit from watching this DVD.

Maybe it shouldn't have been the promo for an expensive DVD like this, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't Max's decision.

Just my theory...

Robert
Message: Posted by: Dan McLean (Nov 9, 2010 09:26PM)
I like what you're saying, Robert. I've watched it several times and I just don't see where the " out" could be. And there was no brick in the chosen bag (unless it was a sponge type). This feels like a joke on all of us.
I'm still waiting for the DVD to arrive and I'm sure it will be worth the investment. So for now I'm going to see this as a joke.
But I suspect, late at night, I'll still wonder and wonder.
Message: Posted by: viler (Nov 9, 2010 11:50PM)
Or maybe Max held the brick in a "brick palm" and loaded it into the bottomless bag before turning it over and dropping it on the table...
Message: Posted by: MikeTheRed (Nov 10, 2010 01:51AM)
The solution to this whole issue is simple. To paraphrase The Matrix, "There is no [brick]."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzm8kTIj_0M


Seriously, a fantastic learning dvd that will benefit all mentalists and magicians.

Mike
Message: Posted by: The great Gumbini (Nov 10, 2010 08:15PM)
Look at the video and notice what you DID NOT see.


Good magic to all,


Eric
Message: Posted by: Mind Guerrilla (Nov 11, 2010 08:10AM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-09 16:37, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
You could but I think if the bag with the brick is chosen it adds to the impact if the performer can fold up or crush the other bag, establishing there was ever only one brick.
[/quote]
What I meant to say was if the bag without the brick is chosen it adds to the impact if the performer can fold or crush it, establishing there was only one bag with a brick.
Message: Posted by: Devin Knight (Nov 11, 2010 10:17AM)
If you watch the video you see that the bag with the feather is dropped to floor and doesn't make a THUD it also falls slow. I don't think there was a brick in that bag.
I have closely studied the video and the Freefall principle is not being used.

I think since there is a 50/50 chance, that Max just took a chance that he would go for the bag with the feather. Had he not, then the would not have completed the trick and it would NOT be on the video. Eugene chose the right bag, and you can tell by his expressions, that is really is surprised.
Message: Posted by: dmoses (Nov 11, 2010 10:45AM)
I don't think he did it with a 50/50 chance.
He did it for real.

This was a demonstration of what you'll be able to do if you consistently and consciously perform.
Max is the real deal.

My two cents,

Dave
Message: Posted by: bugjack (Nov 11, 2010 10:49AM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-11 11:17, Devin Knight wrote:
If you watch the video you see that the bag with the feather is dropped to floor and doesn't make a THUD it also falls slow. I don't think there was a brick in that bag.
I have closely studied the video and the Freefall principle is not being used.

I think since there is a 50/50 chance, that Max just took a chance that he would go for the bag with the feather. Had he not, then the would not have completed the trick and it would NOT be on the video. Eugene chose the right bag, and you can tell by his expressions, that is really is surprised.
[/quote]

That's pretty much what I thought too. And, by doing so, he demonstrated the power of the 50/50 chance. We are spending pages here debating something that he could have just taken a flyer on. In real life, if you do this and miss, yes, you wouldn't complete the trick, but perhaps you would use the exposure of "what might have happened" into a lead-up into something truly amazing with greater odds.
Message: Posted by: parmenion (Nov 11, 2010 02:27PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-10 02:51, Michael J Redd wrote:
The solution to this whole issue is simple. To paraphrase The Matrix, "There is no [brick]."
[/quote]
Hmm I thought it was Bruce Lee first used this kind of sentence.
Matrix is a tribute to Bruce Lee !
Message: Posted by: Mind Guerrilla (Nov 11, 2010 06:12PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-11 11:17, Devin Knight wrote:
I think since there is a 50/50 chance, that Max just took a chance that he would go for the bag with the feather. Had he not, then the would not have completed the trick and it would NOT be on the video. Eugene chose the right bag, and you can tell by his expressions, that is really is surprised.
[/quote]
The brick/feather thing is presented as a joke, not an effect.

If it were an effect, though, I think it would, indeed, have been completed, only with another outcome. I humbly presented my solution here:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/search_post.php?topic=388265&forum=111&post=6811136
in the DVD reviews section and I'm keen to see other people's versions.

If nothing else, the brick/feather thing should encourage us to put our thinking caps on, not throw our hands up in frustration/defeat.
Message: Posted by: MagicbyCarlo (Nov 12, 2010 05:13PM)
I'm not disappointed to read that that "handout" was not explained, but I am disappointed that it was used as a selling point. The promo clearly gives the impression that this is an effect included on a "teaching" DVD.

I was considering buying this DVD; and the material on it, "handout" aside, may be worth the $79 asking price but I have decided to boycott this. I'm voting with my wallet.
Message: Posted by: Mentalist Sam (Nov 12, 2010 06:03PM)
That's too bad because it's a wonderful DVD and for anyone serious about learning these techniques, you're not going to find a better resource. The DVD was never about the effects. It was about the techniques.

Carlo, you should read the ongoing thread on The Genii Forum for the real story about how the demo was created.
Message: Posted by: Markymark (Nov 12, 2010 06:30PM)
I do think Carlo makes a good point...it is a good dvd but many of us have a good idea what is going on with 3 or 5 objects. I really wanted to learn what the great man might have taught us with 2 objects and the demo led me to believe that.
Maybe I am just a shallow hack but to me it is about the effects as well.
Message: Posted by: Mind Guerrilla (Nov 13, 2010 12:06AM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-12 23:15, MagicbyCarlo wrote:I'm sure I can live without the information and L&L and Max can live without my $79.
[/quote]
fwiw some stores are offering it for less than $50:
http://madhattermagicshop.com/magicshop/product_info.php?products_id=9479
Message: Posted by: rockthemike (Nov 13, 2010 12:27AM)
And it's all over the Café...
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Nov 13, 2010 12:52AM)
Look howMax blocks the left side with his body. The rght hand is used for choosing, Max writes on his left hand as way of demo of the voodoo trick. Eugene would have to reach across his body to point at the left bag. This is a no no of stagecraft.

I think Max would have used Freefall if Eugene picked the wrong bag.
Just my opinion,
James
Message: Posted by: Mind Guerrilla (Nov 13, 2010 10:45AM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-13 01:52, Xiqual wrote:
I think Max would have used Freefall if Eugene picked the wrong bag.
[/quote]
I don't know the details of "Freefall" but I just watched a demo on Youtube. If it's anything like the bowling-ball-from-shopping-bag effect, wouldn't there be an angle problem from the participant's point of view?
Message: Posted by: MagicbyCarlo (Nov 13, 2010 05:48PM)
This must be a touchy subject as I'm noticing an epidemic of "vanishing posts". This truly is the Magic Café.
Message: Posted by: The great Gumbini (Nov 13, 2010 06:25PM)
You guys are assuming something that is not the case. Is a brick the only item that will crush a hand? And that will be the last hint I give on this. I know you can figure this out. Again I ask---what did you NEVER see in the video?


Good magic to all,


Eric
Message: Posted by: edh (Nov 13, 2010 06:56PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-12 19:03, Mentalist Sam wrote:
That's too bad because it's a wonderful DVD and for anyone serious about learning these techniques, you're not going to find a better resource. [b]The DVD was never about the effects. It was about the techniques.[/b]

Carlo, you should read the ongoing thread on The Genii Forum for the real story about how the demo was created.
[/quote]

(emphasis mine) Sam, I will have to disagree with you on this point.

Once a demo is shown about a product it does become about the effects that have been used to advertise the product.

Consumers will use the demo as a gauge(sp) as to what is included in the dvd.
Message: Posted by: The great Gumbini (Nov 13, 2010 10:01PM)
I did not order this. However I will admit until I read on here it was not included I assumed it was.


Good magic to all,


Eric
Message: Posted by: Mentalist Sam (Nov 13, 2010 10:31PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-13 19:56, edh wrote:

Once a demo is shown about a product it does become about the effects that have been used to advertise the product.

Consumers will use the demo as a gauge(sp) as to what is included in the dvd.
[/quote]

And THAT is what's wrong with magic today. Monkey see, monkey do
Message: Posted by: Mind Guerrilla (Nov 14, 2010 12:23AM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-13 23:31, Mentalist Sam wrote:
And THAT is what's wrong with magic today. Monkey see, monkey do
[/quote]
Exactly! These days too many people are WATCHING the instructional DVDs they purchase!
Message: Posted by: qkeli (Dec 2, 2010 02:44PM)
Well I finished the first vision of this dvd and all I can say is that I love it, so much information packed in this dvd that I'll have to watch it over and over again, so many details...
Thanks a lot Mr MAVEN !!
I read somewhere that there might be some easter eggs on this dvd, did anyone found them ?
Message: Posted by: edh (Dec 2, 2010 05:48PM)
[quote] And THAT is what's wrong with magic today. Monkey see, monkey do [/quote]

That's ridiculous. It's an instructional DVD. It's designed to give you outs. It's designed to teach you!

Perhaps it would be better if creators wouldn't offer instructional DVD's!

That way nobody would be doing any "monkey see, monkey do".
Message: Posted by: drorwis (Dec 16, 2010 01:17AM)
Just went over the DVD once, and allreay can say that this is excellent stuff.
from a beginner's point of view (that would be me) I really think this is the way to go.
Max really gives you "the inside" on method, application and logic.
as I bought a lot of stuff that I don't use (a beginner, remember?)wish I got this first...
there is a lot to be learned from this DVD aside from "effects", Max's comments on his own state of mind
during the routins is priceless.this DVD will make you a better mentalist rather then a better "trickster",

very well done Mr. Maven!

BTW, I understand the "brick" issue, and it probably should'nt have been used for the demo, but the bottom line for me is that this really should'nt be a factor in the desicion to buy this one.
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Jan 24, 2011 10:38AM)
Soooo, anyone actually find the easter egg or is this just one of those urban myths?
Message: Posted by: Eddiep1960 (Jan 24, 2011 02:39PM)
Amazing DVD. I bought a copy a few days ago. Great information that brings classic techniques to the next level.
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Jan 25, 2011 02:55AM)
For anyone who has this, I have a question regarding the routine (one of my favorites on the DVD) called "Choice and Chance".) Max has the spec touch a coin (which ends up matching a prediction on the table)... then later flips coins until the last one come up heads, which was also predicted. In the performance, before they touch the first coin, Max says, "I will tell you now, the one you touch WILL be the one we will use", and of course it ends up matching the prediction. (he doesn't use the line, "The one you choose IS the one we will use" in any other effect.) Then he goes on to the second phase, with the flipping of the coins.

In the explanation, Burger asks, "What if they had chose a different coin other than the fifty cent piece?" And Max says, "Well, that's the one she chose, so let's go with that." But what IF they HAD chose another coin for that first phase? He committed himself by saying "THAT is the one we will use."

If anyone can shed light on this, please PM me.

Thanks!
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Jan 25, 2011 03:17AM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-25 03:55, gabelson wrote:
For anyone who has this, I have a question regarding the routine (one of my favorites on the DVD) called "Choice and Chance".) Max has the spec touch a coin (which ends up matching a prediction on the table)... then later flips coins until the last one come up heads, which was also predicted. In the performance, before they touch the first coin, Max says, "I will tell you now, the one you touch WILL be the one we will use", and of course it ends up matching the prediction. (he doesn't use the line, "The one you choose IS the one we will use" in any other effect.) Then he goes on to the second phase, with the flipping of the coins.

In the explanation, Burger asks, "What if they had chose a different coin other than the fifty cent piece?" And Max says, "Well, that's the one she chose, so let's go with that." But what IF they HAD chose another coin for that first phase? He committed himself by saying "THAT is the one we will use."

If anyone can shed light on this, please PM me.

Thanks!

Great question. I just came to that part of the video. I am slowly working my way through it. It would seem that this is an oversight on Max's part. As this really should be explained better. By the verbage that he used, I don't think there would be much "wiggle" room to get out of this one. It is a shame, because it was this part of the demo video that really sold me on buying this. I was curious as to what method he would share to explain the "out".
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: merricksforge (Jan 29, 2011 01:41PM)
I got this dvd last week. I have watched it from beginning to end three times since. I bought this believing it to be a study upon the principle of Equivoque - It is that and much more still. Just beautiful.
Message: Posted by: bugjack (Jan 29, 2011 03:23PM)
Wanted to let fans of this set know that it's one of the DVDs nominated for the "Best DVD of 2010" poll, which closes Monday night at 11:59.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=389466&forum=111&start=90
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Jan 30, 2011 02:17PM)
Watched it again last night. Choice and Chance was fully explained. Great dvd.
Message: Posted by: Dr. Eamon (Feb 5, 2011 12:15AM)
I have to take back my previous post, I was a little disappointed…
Message: Posted by: Dr. Magic (Feb 5, 2011 11:40AM)
[quote]
On 2011-02-05 01:15, Dr. Eamon wrote:
I have to take back my previous post, I was a little disappointed…
[/quote]

Dr. Eamon, can you tell us why? Thank you.
Message: Posted by: Dr. Eamon (Feb 18, 2011 02:55PM)
[quote]
On 2011-02-05 12:40, Dr. Magic wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-02-05 01:15, Dr. Eamon wrote:
I have to take back my previous post, I was a little disappointed…
[/quote]

Dr. Eamon, can you tell us why? Thank you.
[/quote]

It was a step back after reading Quins Paralies, many ideas where based on the same concepts, again and again. Long and boring DVD, sorry Max, I'm a big fan but this was not for me...
Message: Posted by: Dr. Magic (Feb 19, 2011 08:25AM)
Thanks you for sharing!
Message: Posted by: Dr. Eamon (Feb 19, 2011 10:22PM)
Your welcome!
Message: Posted by: Amirá (Mar 23, 2011 09:35AM)
My review is in here

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=408689&forum=111&0


An amazing DVD. Im still searching for that hidden egg.
Message: Posted by: Jeff Hartsoe (Apr 18, 2011 05:29AM)
I'd like to know what it is that we "never see" in the DVD?
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 15, 2013 08:44PM)
Multiplicity got Worker of The Week on WPR when they reviewed it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwqF521_oNY&feature=youtu.be&t=37s

And it's a Penguin Cool Box deal for only $29.95 [url=http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/2514]Multiplicity by Max Maven[/url]

[img]http://images.penguinmagic.com/images/magitars/max_maven.png[/img]
Message: Posted by: Brainbu$ter (Dec 15, 2013 08:20PM)
Earlier I had said that An____ M___n_'s F___ F___ was used. On revisiting the video, I was wrong.
If that were the case, either Eugene or we would be privy to the method.

At the end of the DVD, "An Ending Is in Order,"
after Max performs his sensational "The End" trick with jumbo cards, lol,
Eugene Burger asks Max, "Wait a minute, wait a minute...dropping the brick on my hand, what was the out for that?"

Max replies, "The brick thing? Oh, there was no out."

It seems he's joking, but maybe the joke is self-referential. Maybe there really IS NO OUT.

It's like the Q of H gag (used by Jeff Hobson holding one card up high, and later Derren Brown with his zippo lighter).
It's a gag most of the time, and when they name a different card you turn it around and say something like,
"You lost," or "Better luck next time." Then they forget about the stupid gag.
But when it hits, they lose sleep that night.

So maybe if Eugene picked the brick bag, Max would simply say, "Eugene, you didn't really think I'd drop a brick on your hand did you? I may be a mentalist but you're a good guy." Or something similar.

Other thoughts:

- Why would Max go to the trouble of drawing a hand in white chalk on a piece of paper, just to be sure Eugene kept his hand still? What was on the reverse side of the paper?

- The feather bag dropped to the ground as if it were empty. Definitely no brick in it. Maybe there was a TARANTULA spider in it. A tarantula weighs between 1 to 3 ounces. Emptying the chosen bag (with tarantula plus feather) would let the bag fall at about the same rate as an empty bag.

- Contrasting a feather with a brick makes us immediately conclude that a feather is positive. Being in the universe wherein Eugene chooses the feather bag, and seeing the brick fall out of the other bag, we all now have put the "feather" into a "positive" category. It doesn't injure Eugene. However, if the "brick bag" were chosen, there could've been a $100 bill that fell out of it (so delightful that it renders a feather a "negative" experience...Eugene is now $100 poorer because of choosing the worthless feather), or there could've been a helium balloon that did NOT fall but instead floated up to the ceiling, leaving the styrofoam brick inside (I know the brick sounded brick-like when it thumped on the table, but the sound could've been edited in, and Eugene's reaction would've been the same even if he knew it was a foam brick...or Max might set the apparently empty bag down (really with brick inside) rather than tossing it to the floor as he was able to do in the universe where Eugene chose the feather bag).
Message: Posted by: EZrhythm (Dec 16, 2013 01:13AM)
EXCELLENT points! Since the effect isn't explained but there are viable explanations, Max desires us to come up with our own workings and routines. This adds to the entertainment and teaching value of this product. Thank You, Max!
Message: Posted by: SlipperySnake (Dec 20, 2013 06:15PM)
This DVD is worth it's weight in gold.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mindbender (Dec 20, 2013 06:17PM)
Considering the light weight of DVDs, I'd say it's worth much more than its weight in gold!
Message: Posted by: SlipperySnake (Dec 20, 2013 06:24PM)
[quote]
On 2013-12-20 19:17, Mr. Mindbender wrote:
Considering the light weight of DVDs, I'd say it's worth much more than its weight in gold!
[/quote]

I was including the case as well. Melted down it would be a pretty decent amount. :)
Message: Posted by: mrmakeithappen (Dec 20, 2013 07:52PM)
Picked this up recently. Awesome DVD. Well worth the money.
Message: Posted by: EZrhythm (Dec 20, 2013 09:23PM)
[quote]
On 2013-12-20 19:15, SlipperySnake wrote:
This DVD is worth it's weight in gold.
[/quote]

I don't think there is enough gold available to equal the enjoyment of placing Max's ideas in to routines.