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Topic: Website opinions!
Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 18, 2010 12:33AM)
Thanks to all of you who helped with the logo advice.i've messed with logos and such and have a new one... I still like my hair one, but along with that I've tweaked my website a bit. Suggestions? Ideas? Praise?
thanks for the help!
Message: Posted by: Bill Knight (Oct 18, 2010 03:58AM)
Hi Kameron, good site but if I may offer one bit of feedback, check the font on the word "contact" at the bottom of you page as, on my browser anyway, the top of the letter "o" is missing. This turns the O into a U and here in the UK, it makes CONTACT into a whole new, and in some cases unacceptable, word.

All the best
Message: Posted by: Flymo (Oct 18, 2010 04:46AM)
Hi Kameron,

I work as a children's entertainer, so I naturally went straight to your kid show page.

The 4 suggestions I would make:

1. "He could probably do it with the audiences hands tied behind their back!"

To be honest, this sentence really stuck out at me. I get where you were trying to go with it but I don't think it quite makes enough sense to hold up as a joke. The ultra conservative might even find it slightly worrying.

2. "and is the proud uncle to Cassie and Kaeson(right)". No huge deal, but from what I gather your niece and nephew are actually pictured 'left'.

3. The content in 'close up' appears to be directly copied from 'kids show' and doesn't quite seem to fit, but perhaps this is something temporary.

4. I would personally say "from $150" rather than "and up".

Anyways hope this helps. I think your site is good; the sideshow style of magic seems to come across as your strong-point from looking at the site.
Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 18, 2010 12:00PM)
Good catch bill... the font is like that... I guess they didn't think through what it would look like in a word like contact... lol
thanks for the suggestions Fly...
done made the changes!
the close up pics are the only close up pics I had... no pics from any close up shows yet... new to the "get pictures for the website" thing...

As far as the style goes,m I'm trying to get more adults shows. Although I do more kids shows.
Maybe I should have my index split for Kids and adults?
make the kids one a little cheerier and the adult a little more sideshow and edgy?
what do you think?
Message: Posted by: jackturk (Oct 18, 2010 01:27PM)
Mr. Messmer, you look like my kind of entrepreneur... fingers in a lot of buckets and interested in many things.

Hence, my core suggestion: Focus.

Create a website targeted to Kidshows. (I do think the balloon animals and magic lessons fits nicely there.)

Create a website targeted to Sideshow magic. Birthday Mom may or may not want to see you stick nails up your nose. That could possibly put some folks off. Build that site
and promote it to the crowds that want that kind of thing.

And I suggest you ditch the links to your magic shop, candy store, and "heresy" site (and I did check it out and I don't have issues with what's there). But by having other links to these sites you create a couple issues:

1. You give another reason for folks to leave the site you spent so much energy driving them to... and you don't want to do that - you want them to contact you for the purpose of learning more and hiring you.

2. You dilute your core message to your prospects.

Who are you?

A carny guy who shoves nails up his nose?

A balloon artist who's fun and friendly at kids parties?

A serious, yet unconventional Christian who has a different take on organized religion and feels strongly about discussing these topics with like-minded individuals?

Taken together, along with the other links, etc., these do not send a clear, concise message that calls prospects to action.

There's other deets regarding formatting, etc. that could be noted, but to my mind, these are the core points you need to consider first as you work through your internet strategy.

Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 18, 2010 02:09PM)
Thanks jack... I am actually making a "kids" section now. I had the thought about moms and nails in my nose but didn't think to do this till today... as far as the other links goes, that was actually when I had the site as "everything" me. I do writing and blogs, as well as the other stuff on the bottom. Now that I changed it over to only magic etc, I never bothered to take it off... thanks for pointing it out. any more constructive criticism is gladly welcomed!
Message: Posted by: dearwiseone (Oct 18, 2010 07:04PM)
I second Jack's opinion, you look like a very, very scary children's magician, there's no way I would hire you.

Focus, decide what kind of magic you want to do and who your targeted audience is. Then, tailor your website to that audience.

Best Wishes,
Message: Posted by: Scott Burton (Oct 18, 2010 07:23PM)
I'm thinking you should have 3 sites:
1 - kids and balloons
2 - close-up and "clean" (in this case meaning non-sideshow stuff) adult magic
3 - Side show
Each site should appeal to that distinct audience (as they are very different from one another).
Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 18, 2010 07:44PM)
I like the idea, but should there be no crossover?
Meaning I don't mention the sideshow stuff in the kids site and vice versa?

" you look like a very, very scary children's magician, there's no way I would hire you. "
lol, ironically I do almost ALL kids shows... I'm just recently getting into adult shows.

I just split the site into 2 today... have you seen it since? still working out the kinks...
Message: Posted by: Scott Burton (Oct 18, 2010 09:59PM)
No crossover. The markets are very different. Each market has its own needs and buying criteria. Plus, there are risks that one will turn off another (do side show promoters like hiring children's entertainers and do birthday party parents like hiring side show performers?).

Start with a kids site as that is where you current success is in. Then move onto the others. This will make marketing yourself so much easier as your messaging will be far clearer.
Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 19, 2010 09:28AM)
I was planning (and have already started) to have the first page be "What are you looking for: Kids, Adult, sideshow etc" and they click from there. Is that risky? If they search for me there's no telling where they'll land anyways.

Plus as scary as my website may seem, my sideshow stuff is fairly tame. I do fire eating at EVERY show, I've done glass walking at kids shows (heck, I've even done blockhead and mousetraps and human floss at my kid brothers bday) the sideshow stuff is presented in such a way where it's not all that freaky. People assume it's a trick even if I tell them it's not. My point is if they think shoving a nail in my head is fake, a trick, then its a trick to them. It's no different than the Card trick I did.

If I do separate it do I give out separate kids cards with a separate website?
Whats wrong with saying, "Go to Kameronmessmer.com" and let them figuring it out?
It's not that I disagree... it's just that I don't see what I can do...
Message: Posted by: jackturk (Oct 19, 2010 12:42PM)
I strongly recommend keeping the sites and urls totally different.

Biz cards and websites are so inexpensive. Why not?

Hand out biz cards at kids/family parties with a link to your "family show" website.

Hand out different biz cards at sideshows/adult events with a link to your more edgy site.

If someone asks at one venue about the other, hand 'em both cards.
Message: Posted by: Scott Burton (Oct 19, 2010 03:48PM)
Yes, separate sites. And different business cards etc.

You "could" have a separate portal site - a basic single-page site that has links to your individual sites - for the purpose of people who find you via search engines only. Just don't promote it yourself (promote the individual sites to the specific markets).

You're always going to have the odd person find the wrong site as this is the nature of search engines and working such diverse markets. Just do your best to get promo material to the people you are interested. Example: give a hand-out to all the kids at the birthday with your kids show web site URL so they don't have to use Google.
Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 19, 2010 05:51PM)
I can do sub domains... Would you all think it good enough to have http://www.kidsshows.kameronmessmer.com?

I'm already paying for 3 or four web domains a year... do I really need http://www.kidsmagicshowsbykam.com?
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Oct 19, 2010 07:14PM)
Quite lengthy domains. Not easy to remember or recall. Also I'm not a fan of ever using the word "dangerous".
Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 19, 2010 07:19PM)
I think I'm going with subdomains. People don't remember stuff but if its on my card they don't have to. Plus as long as long as they can remember my name they can find me! the kids one is kids.kameronmessmer.com
again if they just remember my name it will have the portal thing going on...

Posted: Oct 19, 2010 8:21pm
Is there a reason for not liking "dangerous" it's only dangerous to me...
Plus I'm going for the hardcore clubs or teens or adults or whatever. Bars don't want a "magic" show they want some dangerous hardcore $#!7!!! maybe that's just me...
Message: Posted by: BrianMillerMagic (Oct 19, 2010 08:07PM)
No one I know who is booking entertainment for their event, whether it is for children, adults, teens, or anyone else is looking for a show that is dangerous. While your show may or not be legitimately dangerous, you're advertising the word "dangerous" as the main selling point. That's a huge turn off to me looking at your site, and can't imagine that will sit well with prospective clients. Even if a parent is looking at your page for a children's show and they see the word "dangerous" as part of your site (even a different part), that would deter me.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Oct 19, 2010 09:38PM)
Nice video, but try to smile when you juggle clubs. I can't tell you what to wear, but I think that you should dress a bit more special.
Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 19, 2010 09:41PM)
Lol... I'm not a very GOOD juggler... that's a look of "please don't drop..please don't drop..." and what do you mean more special? I wear a FUBU tux... isn't that special?
Message: Posted by: BrianMillerMagic (Oct 19, 2010 09:55PM)
When I click on "adult shows", it brings me to a page where the first thing it offers me is "Do you want your child's next birthday to be magical?" All your text is extremely confusing.

"Looking for magic that is not for kids but not crazy? Do you want your child's next birthday to be magical?
Do you have a family style event that needs some entertainment?
Have a special event at your business?
He specializes in magic and entertainment for kids and families.
From close up magic and balloon animals where he mingles with the crowd,
To stage productions for larger groups,
Kameron does it all!

There's an expression we have called "jack of all trades, master of none." Whether it's a mother booking a birthday show or an event planner booking a corporate event, people trust and want to hire a specialist.

In Jay Sankey's [i]Beyond Secrets[/i] he says, "In our fear of "missing a potential market", we all too often try to appeal to an overly broad spectrum of markets and end up appealing to nobody in particular. This kind of commitment phobia results from imagining dozens of doors closing rather than focusing on the handful of doors that will swing wide open if only we will have the courage to market ourselves in a decisive fashion."

You need to decide what you do and sell that with everything you've got.
Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 19, 2010 10:02PM)
Lol... I'm working on it still.. when I first posted this, the site was different. now that I have people suggesting things everything is moving around. I didn't even HAVE an "adult" page until yesterday. so it's all placeholder stuff.

The plan is to have 3 different sites.

They won't intermingle or lead to another site. I'll have cards for each site with the separate URL.
As far as they know, that's all I do. is whats there. If they ask "do you do kids shows?" or whatever, I'll tell them. Otherwise I am an adult entertainer etc.
When I revamp I'll put up another post so more people can rip me to shreds...lol.
Message: Posted by: Flymo (Oct 20, 2010 12:37AM)
Kameron good on you for considering everyone's suggestions and staying lighthearted! There is nothing worse than people asking for help on here, especially in regards to websites and then getting defensive when people make suggestions. While you clearly can't (and wouldn't want to) take everyone's feedback on board, it's a good way to make sure there are things you haven't overlooked.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Oct 20, 2010 06:53AM)
I have seen worse jugglers, and it does take more talent than most to juggle clubs. Black on black for children is a little bit too drab try a contrasting color shirt. Accesorize, dress with a flair, stand out in the crowd. If you want to go all black wear an opera cape. In short you should look like that your show is worth a lot of money.
Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 20, 2010 09:46AM)
Thanks fly... I try not to be defensive. I know I don't see things others might...
I get what your saying Al... I don't always dress black on black. just happene to have a lot of footage from the same time. that was my first promo vid. I havent made a new one lately...
still not sure how to "look like that your show is worth a lot of money." besides dressing in the most expensive things I own... lol...
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Oct 20, 2010 10:19AM)
This is the sort of question that you should ask the women folk in your life. I wear what my wife tells me looks good together. I'm doing several Halloween shows, and I'm wearing all black except for an orange tie, suspenders, and a sequened hat band for my top hat. When women start telling you that you look good you have it.
Message: Posted by: monstercreations (Oct 20, 2010 10:34AM)
Hi Kameron,
Can I ask a question?
Are you a professional magician ?
Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 20, 2010 10:55AM)
Im not sure what you mean exactly... I'll give you the rundown... My dad has been a magician since he was a kid, started a magic show and I started working/performing since I was 14. I started doing kids shows soon after for the magic shop (we had a party room in the back) So I've been performing paying magic shows for over a decade. I've also done countless birthday parties at peoples houses. Ive done corporate banquets and walk around. I've done bar shows and teen shows and such...
and i;ve been paid... may I ask why? Do I look so unprofessional?
Message: Posted by: BrianMillerMagic (Oct 20, 2010 01:34PM)
On 2010-10-20 11:34, monstercreations wrote:
Hi Kameron,
Can I ask a question?
Are you a professional magician ?

I believe that his site makes it quite clear that he is a professional magician. The question at hand is how to strengthen and improve the website - not his act.
Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 20, 2010 03:59PM)
Well, I don't do it full time yet...thats what the website is for. getting more gigs to go full time. I've had nothing but praise for my shows, is there something in my videos that makes me seem unprofessional? As far as my act goes? I can't afford professional promo stuff now and I know enough website and video editing to do SOMETHING myself. I'm willing to take critism though. Keep in mind the small clips doesn't really show all my act... so, how am I unprofessional?
Message: Posted by: BrianMillerMagic (Oct 20, 2010 04:50PM)
"Professional" and "full time" are two different things. You're clearly a professional, even if it's part-time right now. I'm defending you.
Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 20, 2010 05:22PM)
I know you are... was more wondering what the other guy meant. Thank you!
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Oct 20, 2010 06:45PM)
I could tell by the response of the children in your video that you know what you are doing (call it full time, or professional).

When you sell a childrens magic show you are dealing with almost 100% women, or moms, and presenting a clean cut appearance is essential to impress the moms of this world. I can't tell you how to groom your hair, but I will tell you my story. When I found out that I could make money as a juggler/magician I cut off my pony tail, took off my Levis started wearing dress pants, a tie, suspenders, and top hat, now I'm self employed.

Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 20, 2010 07:07PM)
Lol. my dreads have been popular and have kinda set me apart. People recognize me and I use it as my logo/ I have never really had a problem with anyone thinking I'm scary or grungy. I sometimes keep my hair pulled in a ponytail or under a top hat if I can manage. I guess I'm trying to keep my individuality. Not that you arnt... my new kids site is seperated from the sideshow one, and honestly havent got any shows from my site yet. My dad is a proffessional magician as well and passes shows to me quite often. Hopefully when I'm more established the site will generate more income....
Thanks for the compliments... I like to think I can enterain anyone... I mostly get great responses...

ANyone have any idea why the other guy wondered if I was a proffessional?
doesn't proffesional mean I get paid for my shows?
Message: Posted by: Scott Burton (Oct 20, 2010 07:20PM)
Just some photos of you smiling, wearing something with colour, and having more "open" and welcoming body language would work wonders for your kids show promo. I think your dreads can be a great differentiator if used as part of a larger persona/costuming.
Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 20, 2010 07:26PM)
Good ideas... never really think of my tux/costuming... ive always done a button up shirt (not always black) and a tux... I guess I don't really like some of the kid performer costuming... looks too silly or bizarre... I know I know, it's kids, I should look silly... I'll work on that. Im defiantly silly and fun at my kids shows even if I didn't show it on my promo...
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Oct 20, 2010 09:26PM)
At the risk of looking corny, silly, or bizarre to you here is my web address http://www.juggleral.com/ double click photo gallery, and you are welcome to give me your honest opinion of my choice of colors.
Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 20, 2010 09:34PM)
I can say, it is not MY style... It's not bad, but I don't think I could pull it off. I can say your not corney silly or bizarre... especially compared to some... Even if kids are intimidated by me (one of my last shows a kid sat in front of me and said to her friend..."he's scary") and within about 5 seconds it want away. I can handle kids. I am responsible and polite with adults and silly and on their level when I am with kids... Never had any significant problems...
Message: Posted by: Bill Hilly (Oct 20, 2010 09:57PM)

Playing flex-Al was fun. If you grab him by the head quick enough you can dance him like a marionette.

But I think this should pay off:

Beano, who couldn't figure out how to put the picture inline.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Oct 20, 2010 10:32PM)
Beano my friend
Those games were meant for children to play with, they were not meant for retired engineers.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hilly (Oct 20, 2010 11:11PM)
Oh, um, I knew that. I was just testing them for you. You know, to make sure they were working.

Yeah, that's it.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Oct 21, 2010 07:16AM)
I have given you advise that you can take to the bank, but the decision to take it or not is all yours.

Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 21, 2010 09:37AM)
So your advise is cut my hair, add some color and look more conservative? it's sounds like that's the only way to make it. Remember I'm trying to stretch from billys 6th birthday to the comedy night at a nightclub... I think I fit nicely in the middle...
Message: Posted by: MikeClay (Oct 21, 2010 10:49PM)
Ok I just checked it out and was going to do my normal thing then you surprised me.

ya caught me off guard (and if your not the first your the 1st I have seen)

SKYPE MAGIC LESSONS. Dude you're awesome.

I so want to interview you on skype for a podcast I am putting together. Why?
Because this is OUT OF THE BOX and I love it. And like I said, Kameron might not be the first but he is the first I NOTICED... AGHH I wish I could ftp to your site right now and tweak it to build a "LEARN MAGIC" landing page and start throwing VIRAL traffic at it... WOULD BE SO MUCH FUN...

but seriously call me I want to do a interview with you for my business owners list

OHH and my 2 cents worth on the hair..

if it's YOUR BRAND.. as in one of the things that people know you by (and it's not a negative thing for them) then make it you.. and go with it..

Frank Kern lectures in ripped jeans and a tshirt.. and sometimes without shoes.. he has this whole BEACH BUM / OLD Surfer dude look
and umm well he knows more about PR and being infront of corporate people than most of us..

but yeah seriously CALL ME 770 842 7467
Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 21, 2010 11:33PM)
I think we can set something up... thanks for the kudos... made me smile on a crappy day...
I'm not sure what you mean by :"AGHH I wish I could ftp to your site right now and tweak it to build a "LEARN MAGIC" landing page and start throwing VIRAL traffic at it... WOULD BE SO MUCH FUN... " maybe you could flesh that out a bit...
anyways e-mail me and we'll see when our schedules mesh for a chat. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: MikeClay (Oct 22, 2010 12:16AM)
Hrmm that bounced. Try mine

Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 22, 2010 10:26AM)
My mail box was full... sorry..
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 22, 2010 11:49AM)
On the "Kids' page "Home" is listed twice.

Replace some pictures with kids smiling. It will show the kids are having fun around a man who barely smiles.
Message: Posted by: monstercreations (Oct 22, 2010 12:31PM)
Hi Kameron,
I'll explain about your site... you have good content and great ideas but it's a bit of a mess. It just looks amateurish, the layout is all over the place, the style is inconsistant, it uses outdated code such as tables and the graphics are pixelated. I'm not doubting for one minute that you are not a good magician but your website like many others lets you as a good magician down. How do I know? It's what I do.
I have to say your quotes are brilliant... they certainly made me laugh.
Give me a PM or email if you want more info.
Message: Posted by: Kameron Messmer (Oct 22, 2010 06:34PM)
I just got a new job so the website has been on hold a bit...
as far as the website looking amaturish I am doing the best I can with what I know... I just started overhauling the site last week so the little things like "home" twice will be fixed... the pixelated pictures is something I can work on... I am not a professional webmaster so any help would be appreciated.

The quotes were all me... and they were all true! The great magic inventor Andre Cole came into town, and my dad was the promoter.. I got to help unload... We were back stage at Copperfields show last year and he gave me a head nod... etc... stupid things but I thought it was funny...

Posted: Oct 23, 2010 7:02pm
Someone just told me Jeff McBride does Skype lessons... didn't know that... HIS are $200... comparativly mine is a steal!