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Topic: Where does 2 In the Hand/1 In the Pocket Rank?
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (Jan 4, 2011 09:32AM)
I was just going to go ahead and post an article I wrote up on the 2 In The Hand/1 In The Pocket plot, when I realized it might be more interesting to just ask you guys... Where do you think this plot ranks in the annals of small object sleight of hand? For those out there who do this, how would you rate it compared to a cups and balls routine, or a sponge ball routine? Or do you think the comparison is even worth trying to make?
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jan 4, 2011 10:00AM)
I think the plot has merit, but probably more due to its versatility.

Sponges have the advantage of magic happening in the spectator's hand, and that's hard to over ride for indelible impact.

Cups and Balls, in many cases has an air of formality above all the others. But of course, there are C&B routines that on the surface can appear completely impromptu.

The 2 in hand, 1 in pocket may have an edge in that a wide variety of objects used is more possible (balls, dice, rocks, nuts and bolts, M&M's, pieces of cigarette, etc.).

It is parallel to the Cups and Balls in that there is always the possibility for a final load (All Screwed Up, Dice-Capades, etc.).

There is another parallel in that the 2 in hand, 1 in pocket sequence may occur in the course of a C&B routine, using just the hands, or using a cup AS the hand, for the return location.

2 in the hand, 1 in the pocket may also contain a complete vanish of all objects at the end... particularly easy if using sponges.

All that being said, I do several variations of the plot, using a range of objects. Sometimes I embrace the one downside of the routine by commenting, "This is a trick that has no ending." Of course, I immediately would follow such a line with a finish that takes a hard left turn from the redundancy of the plot! ;)
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jan 4, 2011 11:56AM)
It is versatile and very strong done in the right context. I think it was in 1950 that I learned it from Harold
Agnew using dice, and a shuttle pass for a double climax.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 4, 2011 12:01PM)
Blackstone, Sr. used to do it at parties. He used small paper pellets. He would prepare a couple dozen "spares" beforehand. He did variation upon variation of the trick until he ran out of ways to dispose of the "third" pellet.

Frankly, it's a good plot. Doc Eason has a really nice version of it that he sells at his lectures. The main thing is to get to the ending fairly quickly.

I used to do it with dice and end up with a really big one. The value of it depends on the sell.
Message: Posted by: Woland (Jan 4, 2011 05:48PM)
I think Rene Lavand's performance of this effect is stunning.

Woland
Message: Posted by: WoodRat (Jan 4, 2011 11:57PM)
I couldn't live without it. Short and sweet, but mildly complex with a hint of impishness. It is my go to impromptu 9 out of 10 times.
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (Jan 6, 2011 09:09AM)
Garsh... Nobody else doing this routine?
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Jan 6, 2011 09:30AM)
Yup, I've done it for many years.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Jan 6, 2011 10:50AM)
I think it's a fantastic trick. Especially done apparently impromptu with items handed to you by a spectaator, (e.g., mints from a bowl, square cubes from a table decoration).

It's also a great trick for studying misdirection techniques and ideas. I'll bet most magicians plow thru the trick without any thought to where they look, what their posture is like during moments of trick, etc.

It's also great for studying different sleights and ideas along those lines. There are ways to make it better without making it confusing or sleight-heavy.

I like it. It would be a perfect trick for teaching these concepts in a magic lecture.
Message: Posted by: kentfgunn (Jan 6, 2011 01:51PM)
I've been doing one incarnation or another of it for . . . 35 years. Started with the Scarne routine in SOM then . . . oh, just watch this if you've not seen it before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jq0sIIb3q4

It's got social commentary, and some great sources for the trick. Then some fat guy finally . . . does his version.

KG
Message: Posted by: Curtis Kam (Jan 6, 2011 04:17PM)
It's a mystery, to me, anyway.

It's not as strong as a sponge ball appearing in the spectator's hand, yet many magicians close their sponge ball routines with this trick.

It's not as impossible as the "balls from hand to hand" sequences in Vernon's three ball trick, yet Vernon chose to end his routine with it.

Rene Levand made it a strong and memorable experience, but that's what he does with everything. He could probably bring an audience to tears with the "diminishing golf ball". Plus, he added the cup, which makes a big difference.

Rick Anderson has used it as his opener for table-to-table work for decades, and he makes it very magical, as well.

Vernon's "Climax to a Dice Routine" is related, but better, and nobody seems to be doing that. (except Paul Vigil)

The "Hopping Half" is related, but better, and a lot of people do that.

Chanin's "T.V. Surprise" production accomplishes the same thing, i.e. it makes a trick out of simply removing objects from your pocket. The Chanin routine requires a handkerchief, but it's worth it.

IMHO, too many people do this trick too often simply because it's convenient. It's an easy way to end clean and safe, with all your props back in your pocket.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 6, 2011 06:40PM)
Kent's handling is very nice. I especially like the plug for BOOKS!

Doc Eason does a very interesting thing with his version. It's not with balls, though.
Message: Posted by: 55Hudson (Jan 6, 2011 10:49PM)
I love it as an impromptu routine. Bar napkins, wine corks, any small objects - great response to, ."I heard you were a magician".

That was the question I had at a recent business dinner - cut a wine cork up and went with it. The effect lasted for weeks, because I was "unprepared" and just responded to a request with magic.

Hudson
Message: Posted by: jerdunn (Jan 6, 2011 11:36PM)
The coin version - Gadabout Coins - is a Bobo classic. Ron Bauer wrote an excellent booklet with his handling and presentation laid out in detail.

But the best version I've seen is Mike Gallo's. It's a more fully developed routine and comes full circle at the end with two surprises. I suppose these surprises at the end make the routine similar to sponge balls or the chop cup. I started performing the routine about a month ago; it's fairly quick, is entertaining, and ends with a bang (or two). Spectator reactions are great (especially, as with cups and balls, at the end).

Cheers,
Jerry

P.S. What do you think of the merits of having two items the same, and one oddball -- e.g., two red balls and one white, or two silver coins and one Chinese? Regarding the latter, I find it makes it easier for spectators to follow, since they can spot the return of the oddball right off, without having to count 1-2-3 coins.
Message: Posted by: fortasse (Jan 7, 2011 03:04AM)
What is some of the older literature on this trick? Most of the works cited so far are relatively recent. The parallels with the Hopping Halves are, as Curtis Kam, points out, quite strong. Interesting that he thinks Hopping Halves is actually a better trick.

Fortasse
Message: Posted by: Curtis Kam (Jan 7, 2011 04:29AM)
J G Thompson published a couple of routines using small objects that illustrated a funny story, one involving small skulls, believe it or not.

In John Mendoza's Book of John, Verse 2, there's a routine by Mary Wolf using tiny soda cans that ends with the production of a two liter bottle of coke.

These are highlights for me, but the wise man will leave the bibliographical duties to Lawrence O.
Message: Posted by: RJ Hunt (Jan 7, 2011 04:55AM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-06 17:17, Curtis Kam wrote:
It's a mystery, to me, anyway.

It's not as strong as a sponge ball appearing in the spectator's hand, yet many magicians close their sponge ball routines with this trick.

[/quote]

Guilty...:)
Message: Posted by: sushimonster (Jan 7, 2011 08:32AM)
@ jerdunn

Where can we find Mike Gallo's routine?
Message: Posted by: Alan Munro (Jan 7, 2011 01:51PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-04 11:00, Michael Baker wrote:

2 in the hand, 1 in the pocket may also contain a complete vanish of all objects at the end... particularly easy if using sponges.

All that being said, I do several variations of the plot, using a range of objects. Sometimes I embrace the one downside of the routine by commenting, "This is a trick that has no ending." Of course, I immediately would follow such a line with a finish that takes a hard left turn from the redundancy of the plot! ;)
[/quote]
That's what I do. The sequence, with the vanish at the end, gives closure to my routine.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 7, 2011 02:20PM)
I have seen some really clever endings to the routine; however, since I don't have permission to "publish" them here, I must refrain.

All I can say is for you to consider how the objects you use in the routine can combine or how they can change. For example, you can make the balls turn into one very large ball.

Or if you use steel balls, on the last pass, you wind up with a steel ball pendant on a neck chain. When you ask what's in your hand, they guess, and you reply, "Nope. It's just my old ball and chain."
Message: Posted by: 55Hudson (Jan 7, 2011 07:15PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-07 15:20, Bill Palmer wrote:
I have seen some really clever endings to the routine; however, since I don't have permission to "publish" them here, I must refrain.

All I can say is for you to consider how the objects you use in the routine can combine or how they can change. For example, you can make the balls turn into one very large ball.

Or if you use steel balls, on the last pass, you wind up with a steel ball pendant on a neck chain. When you ask what's in your hand, they guess, and you reply, "Nope. It's just my old ball and chain."
[/quote]

Bill - I've been married a most 30 years and don't think I could get away with that closing line!
:)
Hudson
Message: Posted by: 55Hudson (Jan 7, 2011 07:16PM)
... Almost ...
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 7, 2011 10:11PM)
This past Sunday, my wife and I celebrated 25 years of happy marriage.

Twenty-five out of 43 ain't bad!

Seriously, it's been a great marriage. We have stayed together because she doesn't want custody of the cups.
Message: Posted by: fortasse (Jan 7, 2011 10:22PM)
Congratulations, Bill. In this day and age, that's quite an achievement!

Sean
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 7, 2011 11:21PM)
Actually, she is my rock.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jan 8, 2011 01:13AM)
My wife is my best friend and loves magic.
Message: Posted by: twistedace (Jan 8, 2011 08:01AM)
I think that Doc Eason's Nuts and Bolts opener is the strongest 2 in the hand 1 in the pocket routine. It has a big surprise, then an even bigger climax that actually makes sense. It's the only version that I perform on a regular basis. I went to Home Depot and put together the biggest, aluminum version that I could find. They're very light, but big enough to be extremely impressive.
Message: Posted by: Josh the Superfluous (Jan 8, 2011 11:55AM)
All my marriages end with a vanish.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jan 8, 2011 12:51PM)
My understanding is that the trick, "All Screwed Up" as popularized by Doc Eason, was actually created by the late Dr. Chris Frings. Chris was a good friend when I lived in Birmingham, and I did not know this about the trick, until I heard someone mention it was his. In fact, I had been using it for a few years by then. I asked Chris at one point, and he verified it.

At the time that I smoked, and performed in bars, a 2 in hand/1 in pocket routine done with a cigarette was my favorite. I had added some of my own bits to it, but it was based on a routine I'd seen Magic Christian of Vienna do in a lecture back in the early 70's. It's in one of his sets of lecture notes, if you can locate a copy.
Message: Posted by: sleightly (Jan 8, 2011 09:14PM)
I'm glad Michael clarified Chris's creation of "Screwed!" (popularized and frequently credited by Doc Eason). It originally appeared in Genii, Volume 46, Number 9, September 1982. I've performed it thousands of times (thanks Doc!) and certainly can attest to its appeal to audiences...
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (Jan 11, 2011 11:10AM)
This has slipped under my radar..

Indeed, Chris Frings ...who passed away a year or so ago... was the originator of this version using nuts and bolts. Whenever someone compliments me on this, I am quick to credit this fine gentleman. He graciously allowed me to 'run with this' and for this I am eternally grateful. He was a prince of a man. I feel fortunate to have visited with him just months before he left us.

I don't know where the plot started but I DO know that this little ditty is a real work horse. I use it all the time. Always a hit. ... and it isn't a card trick!
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 11, 2011 06:33PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-04 10:32, Andrew Musgrave wrote:
...how would you rate it compared to a cups and balls routine, or a sponge ball routine? Or do you think the comparison is even worth trying to make?
[/quote]

It's a tiny bit of business that makes a good reward when teaching a beginner student a utility switch*.
This and a little insight can get you to the "one ahead" principle where you seem to put things in various places and they vanish on command or assemble etc. That's where the teacher introduces some planning/logistical concerns.

So, to summarize, the theme of "oh look that one I put away is back... again" is a stepping stone and not itself the greatest of "routines". If learning to use the methodology gets you thinking about themes where you find a way to introduce the props and a way of finishing the routine with something satisfactory to audiences that's really all one could hope for... which I guess makes this a "classic" for beginners and intermediate students.

No it's not called the "Swiss Works", it's a utility switch.
Message: Posted by: jerdunn (Jan 11, 2011 07:56PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-07 09:32, sushimonster wrote:
@ jerdunn

Where can we find Mike Gallo's routine?
[/quote]

His Gadabout Coins is on the NY Coin Magic DVD vol. 8.

Cheers,
Jerry
Message: Posted by: gregkoren (Jan 11, 2011 09:55PM)
I've been doing a two-in-the-hand, one-in-the-pocket sponge ball routine for years that, like WoodRat, is my go-to when I want to get a gasp from the crowd. I also do Daryl's Papa Rabbit Hits the Big Time, but try as I do to like that sponge routine better, I keep coming back to my old standby!
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jan 12, 2011 12:08AM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-11 19:33, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-01-04 10:32, Andrew Musgrave wrote:
...how would you rate it compared to a cups and balls routine, or a sponge ball routine? Or do you think the comparison is even worth trying to make?
[/quote]

It's a tiny bit of business that makes a good reward when teaching a beginner student a utility switch*.
This and a little insight can get you to the "one ahead" principle where you seem to put things in various places and they vanish on command or assemble etc. That's where the teacher introduces some planning/logistical concerns.

So, to summarize, the theme of "oh look that one I put away is back... again" is a stepping stone and not itself the greatest of "routines". If learning to use the methodology gets you thinking about themes where you find a way to introduce the props and a way of finishing the routine with something satisfactory to audiences that's really all one could hope for... which I guess makes this a "classic" for beginners and intermediate students.

No it's not called the "Swiss Works", it's a utility switch.
[/quote]

This is very good insight. The basic principle is the fundamental core for more complex construction, branching into several directions.

Good call!!
Message: Posted by: HerraTaikuri (Jan 15, 2011 04:15AM)
I have been doing 2 in the hand 1 in the pocket sequense in my sponge ball routine and I just love it. It works well as a little cooldown before the climax and allways gives audience a good laugh :)
On it's own I regard it as a one of the best impromptu pieces :) Since I anyways keep the sponges in my pocket almoust constantly, it's easy to take them out and start a routine.
I also do it mostly standing and using the spectators hands as a table, which bring it little closer to other sponge ball routines that happen litteraly in the spectators hands :)