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Topic: School Project- Performing and such
Message: Posted by: MitchellMac (Jan 4, 2011 07:42PM)
Ok here is the scoop. In my history class at school we are supposed to do a project on anything we want about Japan, China or Mongolia and we can present the project in any way we want (Presentation, powerpoint or even a PERFORMANCE). So I need to know of a place that I can learn anything and everything about either traditional chinese, japanese or mongolian(not sure that that will include a magical history)magic. Also maybe a magician. So I need to know what source I can recieve info on traditional magic or a magician. I was also thinking if I could learn this type of magic in the 3 weeks that I have to do so and perform it. I had my eye on the chinese magician ching ling foo. Anyway, I need a source where I could learn about something of the sort and I need to know what I'm doing the project on by friday. The presentation is in 3 weeks though
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 4, 2011 08:30PM)
I don't mean to sound cynical, but I don't think that you can possibly learn a performance piece in three weeks. After all, you need to find it, obtain the parts, learn it and perfect it in three weeks.

As far as source material is concerned, get Milbourne Christopher's [i]Illustrated History of Magic[/i] or his [i]Panorama of Magic[/i]. Clarke's [i]Annals of Conjuring[/i] is also a good source. This is for the history, not for a performance piece.

As far as a performance piece is concerned, learn "Snowstorm in China." It is not extremely difficult, and it has the extremely pleasurable aspect of being able to make a real MESS in your classroom!
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jan 4, 2011 08:50PM)
Since you are already interested in Ching Ling Foo, the Foo Can is pretty much a no brainer to operate, but working it into a decent performance in such short time is risky at best.
Message: Posted by: Marshall Thornside (Jan 4, 2011 11:37PM)
You are more than welcome to use any information on my father as well.
He is the only professional magician to be an assistant to both
Blackstone, Sr. and Dante who mentored him and it inspired him to
create his own show.

I'm almost done with my lecture video that I'll have available by passcode soon.

If there are two specific pieces that are origin in nature to China and Japan
I suggest the Chinese Linking Rings (yes I know maybe a bit cheesy sounding but true)
and if you have Dr. Tarbell magic course in volume six there is a trick my
father showed him and drew of him performing that he learned in Japan while
serving in the US Army during WWII.

It has been performed and exposed by the masked magician but also performed in
season 1 of Criss Angel's "Mindfreak"

If you are interested I can get you specific page numbers. Harlan misspelled my
father's name therefore it will be a bit different to search out.

Read more about my father at: http://presskit.mai-ling.net/
click on the magic link.
there's a video and a story written in MAGIC magazine.

Hope that helps.
Message: Posted by: James Alan (Jan 6, 2011 09:07AM)
Gibeciere (the journal of the Conjuring Arts Research Center) ran a six part series on early magic in Japan. The articles are incredibly detailed.
Message: Posted by: MitchellMac (Jan 7, 2011 08:48AM)
What about han ping chien? Where can I learn about him and what sort of effect might I perform if I can practice it in time?(which I may not be able to considering this is Han ping Chien)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 7, 2011 12:47PM)
The one trick Han Ping Chien was most famous for was his version of the coins through the table. There is a basic move that is explained in some of Slydini's material, but it isn't easy. It takes a few weeks to get it down.

Consider a Power Point presentation. It's much easier to put together.

You could also list some famous Asian performers who weren't Asian at all, such as Okito, who was Dutch and Chung Ling Soo, who was actually an American of European ancestry.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jan 7, 2011 01:36PM)
Some more info...

http://www.longtacksam.com/

Great film BTW.
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (Jan 7, 2011 05:53PM)
Marshall mentioned, the Tarbell Course in Magic is a great source for more Oriental magic. Bill is correct, it will be tough to learn all of the good effects as they are extensive. One good trick to do that was from Ching Ling Foo's repertoire is the cut and restored ribbon. You can even give a brief description how this was a trick that he passed on to his daughter which is the custom with Oriental magic.

I know the Chinese Rice Bowls also seems cliché but that’s another good one to do. You can combine it with the Foo can to make the water disappear.
Message: Posted by: Marshall Thornside (Jan 7, 2011 08:51PM)
I was going to mention chinese rice bowls too,
which are a really great effect as well.

Bill mentioned Fake Chinese Magicians.
I started a thread on the Genii Forum to help
list many of them. There were quite a few.

LINK:
http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=235702#Post235702
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 7, 2011 10:13PM)
There was also "Ah Foo!"
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 7, 2011 10:15PM)
This reminds me. I understand they are making a movie in Hollywood about the constant war in the Middle East. In this version, all of the Israelis and Arabs will be portrayed by Native Americans.
Message: Posted by: Marshall Thornside (Jan 7, 2011 11:33PM)
Its no different than all the Chinese people casted in
"Flower Drum Song" were Japanese

There was a movie role that my father lost to Jack Soo
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (Jan 8, 2011 02:19AM)
What luck. If he got that role, it would have been him on Barney Miller instead of Soo.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jan 8, 2011 05:42AM)
I didn't see him among the listed, but William Mayoh performed as "HoYam".
Message: Posted by: Marshall Thornside (Jan 8, 2011 09:17AM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-08 03:19, mtpascoe wrote:
What luck. If he got that role, it would have been him on Barney Miller instead of Soo.
[/quote]


I don't know about that.
Since acting was more of a stereotype casting.
And he did iit on the side.
However he was asked by bill bixby to be on the
'the magician' which would have better suited him
But he turned that down too.

My father turned down a lot of things because he
Wanted to concentrate on his passion.

But you can definitely say he was out there trying it all out.
Message: Posted by: MitchellMac (Jan 14, 2011 06:25PM)
Where can I learn about the history of chinese snowstorm
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 14, 2011 06:51PM)
This is going to sound pretty harsh, but you need to pay attention. The name of the trick is not chinese snowstorm. It is called "Snowstorm in China." That, by the way, is the way I originally wrote it here.

First of all, you must learn how to spell. When you spell Chinese with a small c, you have misspelled it.

Second, you need to learn how to use Google. If you had googled either Han Ping Chien or Snowstorm in China, you would have found everything you need to know.

You have already wasted a ten days, expecting us to spoonfeed you a presentation. I'm through. I hope the rest of the people here are, too.
Message: Posted by: MitchellMac (Jan 15, 2011 06:51PM)
I apologize bill, I have been working very hard on a presentation. I just thought I would learn more if I spoke (or typed) directly to people that new about the sort then I would learn more. If I wanted to do a simple poster on something boring but easy than I would've. This project was supposed to give us a chance to learn about something that we were interested in. So I don't expect you to help me unless you would like to. This presentation is supposed to be fun and I just thought it would be fun to talk to you guys. I'm sorry Bill, I didn't know you were so up tight about information of the sort but you certainly don't have to share information with me if you don't want to. I just thought I'd ask, I didn't mean to sound pushy. If anyone else felt like bill you can feel free to tell me. You didn't have to help me, just thought I'd ask. I've been doing all of the research I was just asking where I can learn about this sort of information. I hope nobody else took this the wrong way, I certainly didn't mean it the way Bill said it.
Message: Posted by: Marshall Thornside (Jan 15, 2011 08:34PM)
Mitchell, Bill was only telling you certain things because if you don't get
your information correct you will only feed misinformation.

We all are willing to help but you really need to take the initiative to
search out what you are interested in. And the best way is to read books.
If you have any questions after reading the materials that is what we
are here for.

If you are stuck on something specific then ask.

The fun in learning is finding the information on your own.

...

With that said, my "MADE IN CHINA" lecture video is up and ready for
anyone interested in viewing it. Just email me and I will forward the
link and passcode on...
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 15, 2011 11:13PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-15 19:51, MitchellMac wrote:
I apologize bill, I have been working very hard on a presentation. I just thought I would learn more if I spoke (or typed) directly to people that new about the sort then I would learn more. If I wanted to do a simple poster on something boring but easy than I would've. This project was supposed to give us a chance to learn about something that we were interested in. So I don't expect you to help me unless you would like to. This presentation is supposed to be fun and I just thought it would be fun to talk to you guys. I'm sorry Bill, I didn't know you were so up tight about information of the sort but you certainly don't have to share information with me if you don't want to. I just thought I'd ask, I didn't mean to sound pushy. If anyone else felt like bill you can feel free to tell me. You didn't have to help me, just thought I'd ask. I've been doing all of the research I was just asking where I can learn about this sort of information. I hope nobody else took this the wrong way, I certainly didn't mean it the way Bill said it.
[/quote]

I'm not "uptight" about the information. I'm just not going to write your report for you. At some point, YOU have to figure out what you are going to do, and you have to learn it.

You presented yourself as wanting to learn to do a traditional piece of Chinese magic. I gave you some suggestions based upon what I perceived your level of ability to be. I told you what you need to know to find it. It's up to you to do at least a little "leg work."

You can talk to us all you want, but you won't be able to do anything until you actually apply yourself.

I know that our motto is "Magicians Helping Magicians," but it isn't "Magicians Spoonfeeding a Report to People Who Don't Even Pay Attention To What They Have Been Told."

You may think that posting a question to the Magic Café constitutes research. It's only a bare beginning. Since you obviously haven't even bothered to google "Snowstorm in China," why should any of us bother to help you learn anything else about the trick? It's not something that I could post to you on the Café anyway. It would take several printed pages for me to tell you what you need to know to perform it.

Doing a search on Google or Wikipedia isn't research, either, by the way. It's a way of finding where to look for more material.

Are you familiar with the word "library"? Do you know what a "card catalog" is? Have you ever actually walked through the stacks of a library looking for a title that caught your eye?

Now, let's get down to the beginnings of real research. Have you ever driven 200 miles to a library because you knew that they had half of the books that Houdini had owned, and you wanted a chance to look through them, just to feel the wonder of discovery?

Have you ever driven 250 miles to attend a lecture by a man whose knowledge of magic was so great that he was able to charge $1000 for a single lecture?

You may think that keyboarding to us on the internet is research. It isn't. It's ZIP.

Pay attention to what I told you before. Do the search I told you to do. It's a chance to get an education.

Maybe you will understand my point of view a little better if you visit this web page. When you visit it, bear in mind that it represents more than a quarter century of my work. Read the page, then scroll down to the bottom and click on the link for the research paper. http://www.billpalmer.com/merlinfo.htm
Message: Posted by: MitchellMac (Jan 16, 2011 11:58AM)
I see your point. As far as the snowstorm part goes I think I said Chinese snowstorm simply because I'd seen the name presented as many other things such as "Ultimate Snowstorm" or just "Snowstorm" or "Snowstorm in China" so when I was researching it I had to try a bunch of different names. That explains why I neglected to call it the exact name that you said. I have been researching though. I just haven't been updating everyone on the stuff that I've found. As far as going to a library goes, I haven't done that because you can pretty much find all that information on the internet now days. I did order some things from amazon and looked at books and such from eBay. Anyway though Bill, I guess you must've misunderstood. No hard feelings. But thank you, as well as everybody, for giving me some good ideas.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 16, 2011 01:50PM)
While you can find all that information on the internet nowadays, the way a library is set up has some big advantages. For example, when you stroll through the stacks, you see related information that is far more relevant than the random information you find on Google or the filtered random information you find on Bing. Also, you don't have to buy books that will be of no use to you.

Granted, you won't find many magic books in most libraries, especially those at a high school or university level, unless you live in Austin, New York City or Providence, R.I. But when you are standing in the middle of the 792s and 793s at your local library, you will see everything they have on magic, unless they are using the LOC system instead of Dewey Decimal. Then you have to find the section they have decided to use for the particular type of magic you are interested in. The main thing is that when you get among the books, they basically "speak" to you. An internet search doesn't really do that.

Internet searches are fine when it comes to getting a general direction for something, but when the chips are down, time in the stacks is worth a whole lot more, if you know what you are doing.

And time with REAL PEOPLE who have done the material for years is worth a lot more than the time in the stacks.

What many people forget about is that while an internet search will give you a lot of information, even with an emasculated search engine like Bing, the bulk of it is useless to you for any given search. If you don't know what you are looking for, the search engine can't really ask you how much the search helped, because YOU don't know the answer. A live person can do that.

If I were sitting across a table from you right now, this whole thing could have been done in an hour. It has taken 11 days so far. By my calculation, you have 10 days left.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 16, 2011 04:35PM)
BTW, just so you don't get the idea that you somehow have some kind of special handle on internet search engines, you don't. I had my first web site in 1994 and registered my first domain in 1996. I was using the old search engines like Alta Vista and Lycos back before Google and Bing even existed.

Trust me. There is a lot of information in libraries that you won't find on ANY internet search engine. You really need to experience a library sometime. A trip to the Abbey at Melk in Austria would give you an inkling of what happens when a library is in existence for several centuries. The Library of Congress in Washington, D.C. is reputedly the largest in the world. It's impressive.

I wish you every bit of luck on your presentation. I can promise you, though, that if you didn't start rehearsing this by this past Friday, you had better plan on doing a power point presentation, because you will not do well. It takes more than 10 days to learn a routine well enough to perform in front of a class. You will be worried about getting the load, handling the gimmicks, not dropping things, not slipping on the wet spot on the floor, and making sure your music is right. You did get some music, didn't you?

And don't worry about dropping the fan. It usually doesn't happen unless you really get nervous.
Message: Posted by: MitchellMac (Jan 17, 2011 09:57PM)
Most of my supplies have arrived now. The performance should not be a huge stress. And if I am not perfect with the "Snowstorm In China", then I will not perform it and just stick with the history. But hey, even if I don't learn it in time, then I at least have the knowledge of performing it and maybe eventually, I will work it into my show. You have influenced me with the powerpoint, And I think I will go ahead and do the history part on that.