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Topic: Top of your Wish List for Cups you Don't Have....
Message: Posted by: fortasse (Jan 8, 2011 01:43PM)
.....NOT talking here about cups in production or still readily available but rather cups that would top your Wish List because they would have some special provenance (perhaps owned by some famous magician of the present or bygone era) or because they would have some sentimental or other special value to you (perhaps your first set of cups that you let go but now wish you hadn't, or perhaps a set of cups that didn't seem so special at the time you let them go but have since become extremely rare and valuable).

Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jan 8, 2011 02:26PM)
I'd like to get my hands on an original set of Johnny Paul's cups!

In the Stevens vid he said there were only 50, or so, sets ever made...
Message: Posted by: Tom Fenton (Jan 8, 2011 03:02PM)
A set of Paul Fox cups by Danny Dew, anything by John Dahms and anything by Angelo Iafrate.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jan 8, 2011 03:07PM)
GADDY... call Joe and buy a set.

Posted: Jan 8, 2011 4:09pm
My wish list?

Dai's engraved cups now owned by Persi Diaconis.

The COPPER Danny Dew PF cups I traded away like a dope and the Conrad Haden Silver cups I traded to Jeff Busby.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 8, 2011 04:36PM)

I hope you get those cups from Persi. When you do, please leave them to my museum!!!!
Message: Posted by: conjurormatt (Jan 10, 2011 12:22AM)
Dai's engraved cups would be wonderful (don't worry Pete, I'd never take them from you; especially seeing as I don't even know Persi Diaconis--other than by name).

On the cups and balls museum website Bill makes the suggestion, "if an archaeologist found three cups of similar size and appearance, some small, round pebbles and a leather bag, he would probably not think of a conjuror or a grifter with a set of cups and balls. He would be more likely to think of a person who had some tableware" (Bill Palmer, The origins of the cups and balls). I'd like to be that archaeologist, since I would think of the cups and balls.

(P.S. for those not in the know, I have a BA in Archaeology, and am working on my Masters currently)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 10, 2011 02:11AM)
Cool! Maybe I can point you to some interesting archaeological sites. Most of the really interesting ones are in areas that aren't very pleasant to be in, though. Mesopotamia, Elam and Bactria are all rather troubled these days, and the Indus valley isn't exactly a resort area!
Message: Posted by: volto (Jan 10, 2011 03:23AM)
Surely William Vincent's cups would be the ultimate possible cups for a collector?
With Bosco's cups a close second.
And if I'm allowed a third wish, these:

It's interesting to ponder where these cups might be, right now. Were they melted down? Are they in a landfill site somewhere? All three sets are pretty unremarkable objects in themselves; the sort of thing any self-respecting housewife would throw out. Maybe Vincent's cups are sitting in some Surrey potting shed with Begonias growing in them.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 10, 2011 03:27AM)
The likelihood of William Vincent's cups surviving until now is pretty slim. They were probably rather unremarkable. Bosco's are in a private collection. Robert-Houdin's are also probably in a private collection. It's hard to tell what they actually looked like from that photo. They resemble the cups that Charles Bertram used, but with a shorter skirt.
Message: Posted by: panlives (Jan 10, 2011 08:52AM)
I would love to "own" Bill Palmer's favorite set.

(And I do not even know what that might be!)

I put "own" in quote marks to remind myself that we never truly own a great set of Cups...we are merely the temporary custodians, as we move along this ephemeral journey we call life...
Message: Posted by: conjurormatt (Jan 10, 2011 11:24AM)
Well Bill, considering that most of my work will probably be in Israel and it's surrounding neighbors, I don't suppose Mesopotamia would be that bad.
Message: Posted by: padre rich (Jan 10, 2011 12:09PM)
The only set I really covet (may the Lord forgive me ) is a set of old Morrissey Mini Cups. The only cups I regret having traded away is the set of Charlie Miller Cups that I used for 15 years .
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 10, 2011 02:23PM)
A number of my friends have said that I shouldn't leave the cups to a museum. If I do, it will be with the express instructions that the cups shall be available for magicians to try out. There would be a few that would have to remain behind glass, or at least handled very carefully, such as the bamboo Wheatley chop cups. They are just too fragile to handle.

But I want people to be able to try various sets out and see what they like.
Message: Posted by: fortasse (Jan 10, 2011 06:39PM)
Bill :

Unfair question : if you could keep (or take with you into the Great Beyond) one - just one - set of cups from your entire collection, which would you choose?

Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 10, 2011 07:37PM)
I'd take the other set. ;)
Message: Posted by: jazzy snazzy (Jan 10, 2011 08:57PM)
Wonder what treassures the Smithsonian has stashed away?
Message: Posted by: Dale Houck (Jan 10, 2011 09:17PM)
I would like the silver and gold plated Monti cups owned by Harry Monti.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 11, 2011 01:30AM)
On 2011-01-10 21:57, jazzy snazzy wrote:
Wonder what treassures the Smithsonian has stashed away?

I think the Library of Congress has more actual magic props than the Smithsonian. The LOC has some Hofzinser items.

The Smithsonian has some really odd curators. I have a harpsichord that belonged to my father. It was a custom built item that was used by a number of extremely well-known harpsichordists when they toured Texas. Dad wrote a series of books that actually changed the way that most keyboard players interpreted baroque music. I offered to donate the instrument to them. They refused to even look at the web site.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 11, 2011 01:31AM)
On 2011-01-10 22:17, Dale Houck wrote:
I would like the silver and gold plated Monti cups owned by Harry Monti.

Do you realize that it has been more than six months since Paul Dela neglected to send you those cups? Not the Monti cups, but the ones in your signature line?
Message: Posted by: RogueMD (Jan 11, 2011 05:51AM)
Well, from the NEW Cups and Balls guy in town (with tongue firmly in cheek!) who still has a lot to learn... I would LOVE a set of Tommy Wonder's (Pom-Poms, bag, and all). Having spent a ridiculous amount of time making these balls and loads, etc., I would be curious to see how mine compares! I'm especially interested in the cups themselves (I'm using the "Johnson Cups" for the routine, but I know these are NOT close!)

Fun to dream....

Message: Posted by: conjurormatt (Jan 13, 2011 02:04AM)
Speaking of Tommy Wonder, those in the know, what type of cups did he use?
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 13, 2011 04:16AM)
The cups Tommy actually used were custom made for him. They were similar to a Paul Fox cup, but a little taller, perhaps about 1 cm.

A few years back, when Tommy was on a lecture tour, he had some sets that he sold, but they were not specially made. They were Morrissey "large cups." The current crop of Morrissey "large cups" in copper are just fine. However, there is no reason that you cannot do the routine with the Johnson cups.

The closest set I have in the Museum to what he actually used is the copper cups by Schiller that I got while I was in Dresden a couple of years ago.
Message: Posted by: RogueMD (Jan 13, 2011 06:27AM)
I feel a bit uncomfortable disagreeing with Mr Palmer, but I do not believe that the effect AS WRITTEN ("Books of Wonder" v2) by Tommy Wonder can be done with Johnson cups. I say this, from personal experimentation (lots!). The problem is the proportion of the cups and balls (and Pom-Pom load). Without giving away to much on an open forum, certain aspects of Mr Wonder's routine require the balls to be a specific size relative to the cup, and of course, that wonderful Pom-Pom load. (Mr Palmer states that the custom cups are about 1cm taller...that would be right I believe from my experimentation!)
Of course there are work arounds (which is what I'm working on)....
BTW... how does one go about having "custom" cups made... just curious, it seems like it would be very expensive!

Message: Posted by: conjurormatt (Jan 13, 2011 09:03AM)
Thanks for the info Bill,

All you need to do is contact Donnie at RNT II and tell him what you want. I've not had the pleasure, but know from other's experience that he will really go the extra mile to get a product your happy with. Like anything else custom made, I'm sure it wouldn't be terribly cheap, but Donnie has reasonable prices.

Incidentally, depending on who owns the cup design (and Tommy's estate), it would be pretty cool if Donnie were to put out a Tommy wonder set (hint, hint :) ).
Message: Posted by: RogueMD (Jan 13, 2011 09:36AM)
Thank you Martin for the information. I will follow this lead!

Message: Posted by: djkuttdecks (Jan 13, 2011 09:44AM)
Danny Dew PF cups.