(Close Window)
Topic: Is the IBM hard up these days?
Message: Posted by: Cyberqat (Feb 14, 2011 11:38AM)
I notice they have licensed their trademark to Fantasma...

http://www.hammacher.com/Product/74304

Not sure how I feel about that....
Message: Posted by: Dick Christian (Feb 14, 2011 12:07PM)
Maybe I missed something. What leads you to believe that the I.B.M. has "licensed its trademark" to Hammacher Schlemmer or anyone? It is simply allowing H-S to sell the I.B.M. Magic Set -- just as they could let YFD, Toys-R-Us, Walmart or any other retailer carry it.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Feb 14, 2011 01:01PM)
Yes, I don't understand the problem.
Message: Posted by: Cyberqat (Feb 14, 2011 02:15PM)
You missed something. Look at my OP again: I said they licensed their name to *Fantasma*, not Hammacher Schlemmer.

It is obviously the Fantasma set relabeled.

Look here and compare pictures:

http://www.amazon.com/Fantasma-Super-Deluxe-Legends-Magic/dp/B003MZ1M4I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297714448&sr=8-1
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Feb 14, 2011 02:42PM)
There are only so many manufacturers of magic sets. If you want to put out a magic set, you contact a company who makes them and, for a fee, they make it for you and put your logo on it, etc.

I know this because I have known a couple of people who put out magic sets.
Message: Posted by: Cyberqat (Feb 14, 2011 03:03PM)
Except that this set isn't something the IBM designed and had delivered. Its the standard Deluxe Fantasma set with the IBM name added. Again, please look at the pictures.

In fact *I* have experience with just such licensing, when we did the nascar racing Online game at TEN.

The questions I have are
(a) What, if any, quality control is the IBM exercising here? (I've read a number of the reviews on amazon and the quality sounds about average-cheap for these sorts of toy sets.)

(b) Should the IBM be licensing its name out for what, evidence suggests, is purely a financial arrangement?
Message: Posted by: pabloinus (Feb 14, 2011 03:12PM)
Re-write of previous post.

I think the name of the set is incorrect, I believe this is the Fantasma set that was always endorsed by IBM. For what ever reason this merchant named differently.

Here is the link to the fantasma set the last paragraph says endorsed by IBM, and if you read the other advertisment it also says endorsed.
http://www.fantasmamagic.com/shopping/proddetail.php?prod=2221
Message: Posted by: Cyberqat (Feb 14, 2011 03:55PM)
Fair enough then, it's nothing new just HM promoting the endorsement a bit more heavily.

I still have some mixed feelings about a serious magic fraternity lending their name and endorsement to what, according to most of the reviews I read, is a typical "toy quality" magic set.
But, I suppose it has its value as a way to get kids interested in the art.
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Feb 14, 2011 04:03PM)
I personally don't think it's an issue. When David berglas was president of the magic circle, his son, marvin started using the magic circle logo on his box of tricks. I'd have thought the relationship was mutually beneficial, in fact I'm Sure it must have been or David and the committee, no doubt would not have agreed to it.
Message: Posted by: motown (Feb 14, 2011 04:08PM)
[quote]
On 2011-02-14 16:03, Cyberqat wrote:
Except that this set isn't something the IBM designed and had delivered. Its the standard Deluxe Fantasma set with the IBM name added. Again, please look at the pictures.

In fact *I* have experience with just such licensing, when we did the nascar racing Online game at TEN.

The questions I have are
(a) What, if any, quality control is the IBM exercising here? (I've read a number of the reviews on amazon and the quality sounds about average-cheap for these sorts of toy sets.)

(b) Should the IBM be licensing its name out for what, evidence suggests, is purely a financial arrangement?
[/quote]Company's do this all the time.

-Harley Davidson has a line of shoes. There made by Wolverine

-Ford has had special edition Eddie Bauer and Harley Davidson packages on there SUVs/Trucks.

-Clothing designers license there name to many other products. Fragrances for instance.

-Martha Stewart has a line of paint, carpet, outdoor furniture, none of which are made by her.

These are brand extensions. And yes, they are new profit centers for companys.

What the IBM is doing is a very logical extension. Don't see anything wrong with that.

Now on the other hand, if they came out with a line of lunch meats, then I'd be worried.
Message: Posted by: Cyberqat (Feb 14, 2011 04:15PM)
[quote]
On 2011-02-14 17:08, motown wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-02-14 16:03, Cyberqat wrote:
Except that this set isn't something the IBM designed and had delivered. Its the standard Deluxe Fantasma set with the IBM name added. Again, please look at the pictures.

In fact *I* have experience with just such licensing, when we did the nascar racing Online game at TEN.

The questions I have are
(a) What, if any, quality control is the IBM exercising here? (I've read a number of the reviews on amazon and the quality sounds about average-cheap for these sorts of toy sets.)

(b) Should the IBM be licensing its name out for what, evidence suggests, is purely a financial arrangement?
[/quote]Company's do this all the time.

-Harley Davidson has a line of shoes. There made by Wolverine
[/quote]
Yes, companies do. If they have a successful brand then licensing it is a profit center.

But the IBM is not a company. Its a professional organization. Unlike all the companies you mentioned, generating income is not supposed to be its primary goal.

I think where such licensing serves its constituent members, its justified. Where it serves against their interests, it's not. I think arguments can be made either way, in this case.

On the one hand, encouraging new blood is a good thing for such an organization to do. On the other hand, if being associated with "toy magic" lowers the value of its name to its members, it might not be.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Feb 14, 2011 04:27PM)
Well, every organization needs money. They may not be "for profit" (I don't know) but in order to have conventions and sponsor events, they need income.

However, I'm not sure how much money they are making on the set. They merely endorse it. It's not an "Official IBM Magic Set".

Without magic kits like these, I never would have gotten into magic. I think kits are essential to help recruit potential magicians. I, personally, am glad the IBM endorses a set to help foster future magicians.

How would it lower the value of its name? People know who these sets are targeted to. It's not like the IBM is endorsing cheap props for pros. That would be a different story all together.
Message: Posted by: motown (Feb 14, 2011 04:39PM)
Cyberqat,

I really have to disagree with you.

Putting it's name on a magic set can only bring more awareness to the IBM, which I think is a good thing.

We've all grown up with magic sets and most of us have probably owned one or given one as a gift.
We all understand the purpose they serve. So, I just don't see how this would cheapen their name.

Finding other profits centers keeps membership costs from going out of bounds and allows them to do more for us.
Message: Posted by: Dick Christian (Feb 14, 2011 04:46PM)
[quote]
On 2011-02-14 15:15, Cyberqat wrote:
You missed something. Look at my OP again: I said they licensed their name to *Fantasma*, not Hammacher Schlemmer.

It is obviously the Fantasma set relabeled.

Look here and compare pictures:

http://www.amazon.com/Fantasma-Super-Deluxe-Legends-Magic/dp/B003MZ1M4I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297714448&sr=8-1
[/quote]

Cyberqat,

My error. I replied in haste and was confused by the fact that your OP included a link to the Hammacher-Schlemmer set instead of Fantasma. Meanwhile I see that subsequent posts have clarified the situation.
Message: Posted by: mormonyoyoman (Feb 14, 2011 04:49PM)
If your only concern is that you've read bad reviews, be assured that those reviews are false. This is the best magic set currently on the market.
Message: Posted by: Cyberqat (Feb 14, 2011 04:49PM)
Well, you aren't disagreeing with me, because I said there were multiple sides to the question (once the situation was cleared.)

But thanks, it's interesting to hear your perspectives.
Message: Posted by: edh (Feb 14, 2011 05:06PM)
Mormonyoyoman, you forgot *jeep*
Message: Posted by: robwar0100 (Feb 15, 2011 07:35AM)
I once heard the chief financial officer of a non-profit organization say, "Where there is no margin, there is no mission."

Cyberqat, have you contacted anyone in the leadership at the International Brotherhood of Magicians? I am sure someone there might be better suited to answer the question than just throwing it out here. Then again, who knows how long ago the decision was made.

I had the honor of attending a mid-year board meeting a couple of years ago, and I can tell you this: The board is dedicated to preserving the integrity of the organization and promoting it, as well as promoting the magical arts. The board members do not always agree on every point, but I believe they all agree on the broader vision of the organization.

If I wanted to know why the organization decided something, I would contact someone in leadership.

Bobby

p.s. I serve as an associate editor of The Linking Ring and the I.B.M. Web Portal (in a voluntary capacity), however, my participation has dwindled some due to heavy work commitments.
Message: Posted by: DavidSandy (Apr 21, 2011 07:44PM)
I just happened to see this posting and thought I'd offer some clarity. The IBM was approached by Fantasma back in about 2002 or so (just before I became International President in 2003) about the idea of a mutually-beneficial arrangement. The IBM wanted more awareness... we wanted to get our name in front of young, budding magicians. We were not paid for the endorsement. We allowed Fantasma (only after carefully reviewing the quality of the products) to use our logo as an endorsement in exchange for substantial promotion both on the exterior of the box (our logo) and in the instruction manual. Some information is given about the IBM in the instruction manual along with our website.

Of course, our Legal Advisor reviewed every aspect of the endorsement to insure we were protected from a liability standpoint and extensive paperwork was signed.

It really was a good thing for the IBM... good promotion... good exposure... and it cost us nothing.

As an additional benefit of our relationship with Fantasma, our junior winners of the IBM Stage and Close-Up Contests receive a phenomenal prize package (including a trip to New York) courtesy of Fantasma Magic.

I hope this clears a few things up. Thanks so much!

Best,

David Sandy
IBM International President 2003-2004
Message: Posted by: Mike Maturen (Apr 21, 2011 08:49PM)
Thank you for the details, David!
Message: Posted by: Steve Burton (Jun 15, 2011 05:11PM)
It just seemed like a good fit. When I was chairman of the Youth Committee I heard of the upcoming Harry Potter movies. I knew there was going to be a ton of merchandising associated with the films so I wondered if the IBM could get an endorsement in the magic sets I heard they were creating. It just might attract more junior members, I thought. Some phone calls to first Warner Brothers then to a company merchandising manager gave me the name of Mark Setteducatti. Mark is a creative marketing wizard himself and told me that they weren't putting out traditional magic sets like I had thought. He said magic didn't need Harry Potter to be marketed and there was something else in the works that might be a better fit for the IBM. But he couldn't commit right then to any more info. I called again a few months later and he told me about Fantasma and specifically Roger Dreyer. I got in touch with Roger and found he was one of us-a dyed in the wool magician and magic fan who had a vision for a company called Fantasma. He liked the idea of giving the IBM exposure in his kits and sent me some of their products. I took it to the Board during the convention that year and showed them the effects. They voted to consider it given the matter had to be examined as to its legality. Subsequently an agreement was signed and Fantasma began promoting the IBM in their products throughout the world. I thought then, and still think, that Fantasma products are quite good especially for young performers.

If nothing else, what Roger Dreyer and Fantasma contributes to the IBM and Magic Youth International is enough, in my opinion, to make the project a success.