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Topic: The greatest bargain you ever find...
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Apr 15, 2011 06:39AM)
I am a bargain hunter to the heart - I always keep my eyes open, ask people and search stores. So I want to know from you:
What was the greatest deal you ever made for a Tenyo item?

Being a collector for nearly 25 years, I have made several awesome acquisitions, among them a Floating Lady for EUR 6, an usused Mini Morphosis for EUR 8 and yesterday a See Through Guillotine for EUR 1.

Now, what's your moment of glory? :)
Message: Posted by: stereo (Apr 15, 2011 07:37AM)
I have buy the Tenyo Coin Case 5$ on ebay France, I have sell it on ebay world for 315$ ^^
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Apr 15, 2011 08:09AM)
Only yesterday I bought a mint 'Match To Flower' for 5 EURO.

I once bought 4 Billscapes in mint condition for 30 EURO. Should have kept them longer now that I think of it ;)
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Apr 15, 2011 09:06AM)
To me the greatest Tenyo bargain is being able to converse with you fine folks for free (am wipimg a tear away now)

You guys are getting some great deals. Once I was able to source about 30 older items for the same price as was being chargerd in the 70's and 80's

Nicolino I will double your money on the See Thru Gulliotine! Seriously that is one I am still trying to track down so if it is an extra and you want to deal let me know.

John

John
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Apr 15, 2011 09:26AM)
[quote]
To me the greatest Tenyo bargain is being able to converse with you fine folks for free (am wipimg a tear away now)
[/quote]
Ooooh, isn't he irrestibly charming?? :lover: :blush:

[quote]Nicolino I will double your money on the See Thru Gulliotine! Seriously that is one I am still trying to track down so if it is an extra and you want to deal let me know.
[/quote]
Hm, that reminds me of another offer I got from one of you who wanted to double the price for my mint Credit Slasher...unfortunately I forgot who it was... :)

Seriously, the Guillotine was a lucky coincidence - the seller didn't declare it as Tenyo, that's why it probably didn't show up in any search query (but he was shipping only to Germany anyway, so ne need to grieve for you guys!).
I didn't know if it's genuine and working, but I was lucky! No plans on re-selling currently - not even for the double of the price!!! :no:

Here's the auction:
http://cgi.ebay.de/190519777641

Funny enough, I bought Excalibur from the same seller -very expensive in comparison....:
http://cgi.ebay.de/190518932460
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Apr 15, 2011 09:37AM)
Very kind words of you John, it is appreciated and you are absolutely right.

Nicolino, you are one lucky guy!

I'll help you locate the person who wanted the Credit Slasher, I think I know him :P
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Apr 15, 2011 09:49AM)
Thanks for your help, Tweety - you're my man!
(But you knew that already, didn't you...) :)
Message: Posted by: stereo (Apr 15, 2011 12:26PM)
If someone need I have one brand new credit slasher for trade ^^
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Apr 15, 2011 03:51PM)
Loads of people have Credit Slashers Nicolino and Stereo! Better sell them as fast as you can :lol:
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Apr 15, 2011 03:54PM)
I have an extra as well!
Message: Posted by: Inert (Apr 15, 2011 04:07PM)
I remember, this 1 time at band camp, when I scored a 1972 Camero for $...Seriously though, what a great idea for a post Nicolino. Applies to all Tenyo collectors I think. My most recent score was wiping out a magic store's complete inventory of mystery china box at about 1/7 of its going rate. Sweated bullets waiting for the delivery shipment & figured all along that the dude would renege on the deal, but they showed up. Also, fully agree with John's wisdom & truly heartwarming sentiments.
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Apr 15, 2011 04:25PM)
Wow Wankyboy, that's a sweet deal! How many were you able to nail down?
Message: Posted by: Inert (Apr 15, 2011 10:19PM)
Lol Nicolinomeister. Wholly flippin' dooley if I can remember, but I sure blew 'em out the window at a record pace. All gone, but 2 or 3. The ultimate joke being that they all went to buddies at pretty much cost. I exchanged 1 of the spankin' new ones for my own personal used copy, which I then sold to Australia on the big auction site at my only profit on the whole deal of about $25.
Message: Posted by: dragonash (Apr 17, 2011 05:38PM)
In 1999 I found a Bare Bones at Crown Books for $8.
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Oct 4, 2011 07:53AM)
My recent acquisition was Soft Coins for EUR 35,- shipped.
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Oct 9, 2011 02:58AM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-04 08:53, Nicolino wrote:
My recent acquisition was Soft Coins for EUR 35,- shipped.
[/quote]
Forgot to mention that it came with some extra stuff... :D

http://www.ebay.de/itm/160660433601
Message: Posted by: stereo (Oct 9, 2011 07:27AM)
._.!
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Oct 9, 2011 10:16AM)
Felix strikes again... do you have room to jam that stuff in the warehouse?
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Oct 9, 2011 10:18AM)
I picked up an extra Bare Bones this week for $9.00... howver that pales to Felix's deal!
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Oct 9, 2011 03:54PM)
Not bad either, Jon! :applause:
Sometimes one's just lucky...
Message: Posted by: DLF (Oct 10, 2011 03:11PM)
I also scored some original inventory from an old magic shop. He was still selling items for their original prices. I picked up a couple each of; Tunnel of Darkness, Card Changer, Money Machine, Pendant. I even got 4 pieces that were from the never released Doug henning Magic Set. Good stuff!
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Oct 10, 2011 03:46PM)
Yes, Presto seems to have some great values....! :D
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Oct 10, 2011 05:14PM)
Indeed, he's talking about Presto Magic located in Long Beach, CA. What's absurd is about 95% of TMC-ToJ crowd are well aware of the great Presto and we all act like it's a BIG secret. Funny really.

Sadly, much of Presto's stash has wound up on eBay selling for many times the purchase price from Presto. Guess what, he's well aware of it and still doesn't care about it. He's 80 years old and just wants to turn a fair profit, he told me he's not interested in selling on eBay. Class act.

I know Presto well and encourage all to contact him for fantastic pricing, maybe this will end the eBay greed once and for all. I have TONS of stuff for trade (not as much as Felix) and will trade for items. Not looking to sell anything as I don't want to make a profit but would rather grow my collection.

Presto is not online, look him up people... Great person and you'd actually be helping him out.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Oct 10, 2011 05:29PM)
Another vote for Presto! I scored abour 30 pieces from him when I was starting to build the collection. You need to be patient when dealing with him on th phone but it was worth it and a great guy. I suspect his inventory must be dwindling as I know I got the last of a few choice items.

John
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Oct 10, 2011 07:32PM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-10 18:29, J M Talbot wrote:
Another vote for Presto! I scored abour 30 pieces from him when I was starting to build the collection. You need to be patient when dealing with him on th phone but it was worth it and a great guy. I suspect his inventory must be dwindling as I know I got the last of a few choice items.

John
[/quote]

Yeah, I think you're right. He's such a sweet old guy, loaded with stories and such a passion for Magic, it will be a tremendous loss when he passes. He's really quite funny too, some of his stories are very amusing. I know several folks from abroad are dealing with him, his assistant John has mentioned Stuartle for sure. Card Changer IS VERY TOUGH TO FIND, but not since the Presto stash became public, I think I sucked up about the last of those. I have them available for trade for anyone interested. I am really looking for Teleshpere right now and I need at least one more Eye of the Idol (Davy? =).

Do you guys know the Presto Magic Shop story? The city of Long Beach has put that old guy through hell, I feel bad for him. He's still got some good stuff left actually, I know he had some Super Phanto Blocks the last time I checked. Presto and John are both great, contact them, they'll work you a deal for sure.
Message: Posted by: med_doc7 (Oct 12, 2011 07:40PM)
I am going to be brutally honest here folks and some of you will not like what I say, but so be it.

To be quite honest, I had no idea about Presto having Tenyo until relatively recently, no clue whatsoever. It is purely my own fault, no one else's. I blame no one. If I read certain boards/topics I would have seen this for myself; alas, I did not. But others hid this fact.

Why I am disappointed? Because there are quite a few people who have taken advantage of buyers and hobbyists of Tenyo, who bought Presto's stuff in bulk and sold this stuff for a bunch of money keeping Presto as a relative secret. Not illegal, not forbidden, not even necessarily dishonest, but you know what it is? It shows a lack of integrity, a lack of relative ethics, and what I would call, a lack of regard for magic as a hobby in general.

People who were supposedly helping others with "hard-to-find" discontinued tricks, were buying super-low in bulk from Presto and using TMC and its connections as an avenue to sell to fellow Tenyo enthusiasts for a heck of a lot higher. These same folks could have steered their "buyers" to Presto so that their fellow Tenyo enthusiast could have also added pieces to their own collection without breaking the bank. This includes folks in the U.S.and abroad. Instead they wanted to earn a quick buck. They did not "earn" anything because they did not work hard for it; just got wind of a lucky break.

Good old fashioned greed is all it is. Again, not illegal and people will criticize me, and that is fine. I will also tell you that many people did not do this and merely added pieces to their collection without reselling. I think that is great. Many of you earned a lot of money using this scheme. Actually it might have helped you in this economy, so I guess that's good.

Greed, lack of integrity and ethics, and the ability to turn a blind-eye to your fellow magician and hobbyist. I am disappointed. It is a shame. I try not to take advantage of others as a rule. Broder knows exactly what is going on and honestly could care less. This is about the people that just were not in the "know" at the precise time and instead of people-in-the-know sharing their knowledge, they chose greed and a lack of ethics. Did anyone send Broder a finders fee? I doubt it.

Did anyone tell Broder, "This is actually worth 6 times what you are selling this for so maybe I should give you 2 x your selling price." Who would dare do that? That would be incredibly dumb, right? You may think, the guy should know better, if he is stupid enough to sell it at that price so be it. Maybe that is true.

Bring on the critics to my sentiments. I know I will have many.
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Oct 13, 2011 02:02AM)
You're dead on.

This is very similar to a baseball card find of not so long ago. Someone finds an old guy selling numerous old baseball cards in pristine condition and proceeds to pillage him blind, for pennies on the dollar. The difference being that it's usually one person doing the pillaging, not many. The difference here is Fred "Presto" Broder doesn't care, HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S SELLING AND WHAT IT'S GOING FOR ON EBAY, JUST ASK HIM. His true passion is for kids entering the magic hobby and passing it on before he passes on. Remember with money, money doesn't make character, it exposes it.

I can speak for myself in saying that I know for a FACT that most people knew about Presto and his Tenyo. This said, motivations vary greatly. On one hand it's understandable that broadcasting the Presto Magic find wouldn't have been wise; this would have greatly decreased the odds of acquiring hard to find Tenyo for one's own collection. On the other hand, it's not cool to pillage his inventory with the explicit intent of making large profits on the very same people you share such a passion with.

I have sold some Tenyo on eBay and made some money, however, considering my inventory, if I was greedy, I could have made A LOT more. I'm much more interested in trading. All in all, there are some folks in the ToJ forums that ARE out to make money on Tenyo and I believe it's their main motivation for participating. Supplementing your income is one thing, nothing wrong with it, making money on anyone and their Mother, and doing so under any circumstance, is completely unethical and a tiring social, but long standing commentary, on human greed that's been with us for nearly as long as our origin.
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Oct 13, 2011 05:13AM)
Thanks for bringing up this interesting topic!
Of course, I can only speak for myself but let me tell you a little something about my point of view and how I became a collector.

I've been adoring and collecting Tenyo for literally more than 25 years! It all started during a vacation my family spent in Austria; the barkeeper in our hotel used to perform small magic tricks for his guests in order to keep them entertained, engaged - and thirsty, of course....! :D

I spent all the evenings loitering around the bar and watching him perform. (I only learned later that most of his tricks were indeed Tenyo!) 
The day we had to leave he gave me two of his tricks as gift - and I was thrilled!

From that moment on I realised that these little plastic marvels are something special - how they're made, how smooth they operate and how deceptive they were, although relatively affordable (at last for my uncle who gave me one each year for birthday).

I started to collect them. As soon as I realised that some of them were out of print I got alarmed: why does Tenyo stop producing such clever stuff? 
What if I had come too late to the party and could not find a Mini Morphosis for example?

And here are the two main reasons why I bought and buy more than one copy when I got the chance (and the money) to do so: 
I kind of wanted to preserve these tricks (for me and maybe later collectors) instead of having them bought by muggles who don't appreciate the principles.
Besides, I have a need to feel safe, that in case one of the fragile items breaks or gets lost I have a spare one, since it can't be replaced that easy once the line is discontinued.

Those who know me are aware that I never ever sold any Tenyo over eBay in order to make quick money; the only few trades I performed were over this forum with those - I believed - were enthusiasts. 

Let me add that I also have never ever bought anything from Presto, although admittedly I was quite tempted to! (I only learned about his existence a couple of months ago by a hint from a Café member.)

To cut a long story short: personally, I believe there's a difference among those 'collectors' who buy and sell Tenyo without emotion, just for the buck, and those who have a passion about the stuff, who care whether and who they sell to.

(Since myself I have more than often paid ridiculously high prices for some tricks, I confess that I'm also inclined to make a deal by finding bargains or cheap lots (whereas 'cheap' is an elastic concept these days...). I do this mostly for myself, and not with the idea of making quick revenues with it. That's why my collection is that big - I often just can't part with an item. Yes, it's sick and unreasonable, but that must be the collector's desease.)

Now I'm curious about other stories from you guys, just keep them coming....
Message: Posted by: Inert (Oct 13, 2011 12:19PM)
Spot-on Lads!!!
Med_Doc7, kudos for showing ba**s on a tricky subject. Man, it was way over-due to get away from just politically correct subjects. Truth is always simple so it may be easily exposed. Truth & P.C. are not friends. Houdini103126 thanx for inspiring all who have clear eyes & a mind for listening & learning by showing the true essence of illusiondom by writing Fred "Presto" Broder's intent being a sharing for the youngsters entering the magic hobby. A noble man for sure. Also your line "Remember with money, money doesn't make character, it exposes it." Truer words have never been said. Fred is clearly a man who best illustrates the fraternity's philosophy of fellowship & goodwill.

Bro Nico...just AWESOME! The barkeep was definitely a kindred spirit with Fred Broder. Again, the searching of an illusionist looking for the glint in a youngster's eyes. He obviously saw it in you, as the passing of the 2 tricks prove. A lifelong passion initiated. A whispered or even unspoken bond was born. Magic in magic. The reason. The motivation. The FREE pay-off.

Nico, you also showed the difference between the "Us & Them" that is hurting Tenyo these days. One simple word...Passion. Us...we revel in the cleverness, thought & labour of Love aspect that is occuring in a outstanding piece of apparatus. Them...they are well aware of our passion & openly choose to abuse & manipulate, as the state of things have become glaringly apparent. I wonder if the financial compensation is any reward for one's lack of passion in life? Personally, I don't think so.

As for my story, I 1st encountered magic in a hospital waiting room. My older Brother was born with CP. This meant frequent hospital visits. As a very young lad, a kind, white-haired elderly gentleman took the time to blow me away with just a piece of string while sitting beside each other. I'll never forget him. I never knew his name or ever saw him again. His gift is still giving I hope.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Oct 13, 2011 09:09PM)
Let me start by saying I have never sold a piece of Tenyo. I have traded a few pieces. I have bought items from Presto for my collection and a few extras of some items for possible trading. Some of this conversation sounds like whining to be honest. I am now 15 items shy of a "complete" collection and have done most of this in less than 2 years. It has been done with mny inquires across North America and Europe. Part of the fun is the "dicovery" and the "find". It takes work and yes some money if you want to be a serious collector of Tenyo or other areas of magic.

Don't expct collectors to broadly announce all of their sources... do your homework... build your connections and make your own finds... that is what a collector does. Stop whining about what others have made.... it is supply and demand and nobody is forced to buy a Tenyo trick. I have gotten good deals and many items I have paid quite dearly for... but I did my homework and understood if I really wanted it that is the price I needed to pay.

For those that are selling on ebay from Presto or others... go for it... I have no problem with it just not my ineterst right now. In talking with Presto and John they would suggest to me I should buy more and sell on ebay. I told them they were probally right.

Houdini, no offence but don't say that you have sold on ebay but somehow you are better than others because you didn't sell all that you could.

Grow up guys, do the work find your deals... I for one do not expect you to share your sources with me. Two of the individuals I respect the most on this form are Nicolino and Killertweety. I have done deals with both... did they charge more than "retail" absolutely they did.Howver I expect that and felt the prices fairly reflected the market value... I know they at some point in the past they paid less... but they did the work... found a source... and sold at a price I was willing to pay to help complete the collection.

I'm frankly a little suprised at the "outrage" on this. Believe me, I am willing to help someone with questions, instructions,etc. But don't expect me to hand over sources or contacts to you that I have worked hard to obtain... I certainly don't expect that from you.

John
Message: Posted by: med_doc7 (Oct 13, 2011 10:52PM)
John,

I agree with you to a point. Like you, I am developing my Tenyo collection overtime, albeit not as rapidly and perhaps not as systematically as yourself. I have paid quite a lot for many of my items; especially the rarer items that one just does not see. There is certainly a market for extremely scare items. I have made many contacts worldwide; some of whom you have already mentioned. Very bright folks with fantastic collections and the foresight to buy items in bulk when no one else was doing it.

I do not understand; however, why you or others would not want to divulge places to find and/or trade, who may have the very items that we are all trying desperately hard to locate, to others who share a common similar interest and penchant for magic and/or tenyo? I would rather trade than merely buy anyway; it's more fun and builds camaraderie and friendship. Is it a race to the finish line? I know you work hard for your money. So do I; so does practically everyone on this forum. But why not share with others ideas and places where one could find similar items? I know that in a 2 year span you found items from numerous places, not by chance, but by the spread of knowledge from others.

Did you cold-call magic shops, or did someone tell you about Presto? Let's be fair here, the find is fun and there is homework to be done but someone turned you on to places like Presto (and Presto is just an example). I had every chance to contact the man and did not and it is 100% my fault. I am not pointing fingers. I have never sold a magic illusion on ebay and probably never will. I have quite a few duplicates. I would be glad to trade.

But let's not get sidetracked and say that tenyo enthusiasts should not be sharing sources. Isn't that one of the motivations for this entire forum? To share and to educate and reminisce etc about Tenyo? For if sources were not shared to you, in some capacity, your collection would still be in its infancy because while you may have purchased some of your pieces on ebay; I am merely assuming that the majority of it you purchased outside of auctions from others who had product such as Nicolino and others.

I am not trying to be malicious and I think we are on the same team here so please correct me if I am wrong.
Message: Posted by: Inert (Oct 13, 2011 11:26PM)
John

Hi Mate. No disagreement from me. I interpreted the outrage to be directed at those who plunder for plunder sake with little or no regard at all for the Love of Tenyo, illusions, collecting or ethics. Many avid fans have spent thousands on their collection. The above retail resale price is a common practice amongst many to help recoup their cash outlay in this pursuit. Increased prices also occur of course due to retiring of older stock & intentional hoarding. Gouging is a different matter. It just costs everyone more & I believe that it hurts the whole magic field. Personally, I always ask the seller some technical questions, just to get a feel of their headspace & dedication level. The unifying thread is a fondness of the subject & of the very items. Many have spent years & countless hours in their continual quest. I think that I have written this before somewhere, but I must reiterate my sadness for the eager youngster just starting out in magic. It is now at the state where a budding, young enthusiast cannot learn their craft with the building blocks of Tenyo due to prices. How many future talents have we lost?
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Oct 14, 2011 01:19AM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-13 22:09, J M Talbot wrote:
Let me start by saying I have never sold a piece of Tenyo. I have traded a few pieces. I have bought items from Presto for my collection and a few extras of some items for possible trading. Some of this conversation sounds like whining to be honest. I am now 15 items shy of a "complete" collection and have done most of this in less than 2 years. It has been done with mny inquires across North America and Europe. Part of the fun is the "dicovery" and the "find". It takes work and yes some money if you want to be a serious collector of Tenyo or other areas of magic.[/quote]

I can speak for myself in saying I'm not whining. I believe I have been very clear in conveying my points per what I have written, if you think it's whining, I disagree, but you're entitled to your opinion. So since you felt the need to tell me your opinion, here's mine, I believe you have a peculiar need to explain your motivations and brag about your rapid acquisition of nearly an entire run of Tenyo T-series magic. It seems to me that you want to start a flame war under suspicious motivations, now that's just my opinion as I'm entitled.

[quote]Don't expct collectors to broadly announce all of their sources... do your homework... build your connections and make your own finds... that is what a collector does. Stop whining about what others have made.... it is supply and demand and nobody is forced to buy a Tenyo trick. I have gotten good deals and many items I have paid quite dearly for... but I did my homework and understood if I really wanted it that is the price I needed to pay.[/quote]

What are you talking about? What's any of this have to do with doing homework? *scratching head*. I think you have a problem with your logic, you have COMPLETELY missed the point.

A) Presto Magic was well known for carrying discontinued Tenyo product. NOT A SECRET AS SOME WOULD LIKE US TO THINK.
B) THE POINT is that Presto Magic was hardly a find, ALMOST EVERYONE IN THESE FORUMS KNOWS ABOUT IT, the point is that despite this fact, none of us were really helping each other out as a community of collectors. The posture you take is almost "everyman (or click) for himself" and I personally don't subscribe to that, but that's my problem, not yours.
C) This has nothing to do with getting good deals or bad deals, this is simply saying that some people chose to keep Presto a "SECRET", albeit a dumb one, in the hopes of making $$$. I don't even have a problem with this really, it's up to the person to do as they please, there is nothing illegal about buying something at a great price and keeping quiet about it, all that's being said is it's a let down that greed gets in the way of comradery.

[quote]For those that are selling on ebay from Presto or others... go for it... I have no problem with it just not my ineterst right now. In talking with Presto and John they would suggest to me I should buy more and sell on ebay. I told them they were probally right.[/quote]

I know Presto (Fred) and John pretty well and I VERY SERIOUSLY DOUBT they encouraged you to sell anything on eBay. Both of them frown upon this only in that you're in it for financial gain and not the love of Magic. I do know he doesn't care if people do this, but he would never encourage it. Presto encourages people to get into magic for the love of it, he sees Tenyo as MAGIC, NOT as collectibles. That said, he'd be the first to tell you that he doesn't care what you do with it after you buy it, but he or John wouldn't encourage you to sell on eBay, this I know. So, I'm calling BS on this one.

[quote]Houdini, no offence but don't say that you have sold on ebay but somehow you are better than others because you didn't sell all that you could.[/quote]

If I was trying to imply I was better "than others", why would I admit to selling some items on eBay? Don't you kind of think I would leave that fact out? THINK John. I was simply saying that I'm not innocent of trying to make a couple of bucks off of the Presto magic I sold (mostly pressure from my Wife, LOL), I'm saying that it wasn't my motivator so I stopped because it didn't feel right buying it off of Presto as cheaply as I did and turning a profit on it. I bought extras for trade bait to grow my collection and have decided to stay the course because I feel it's more ethical.

[quote]Grow up guys, do the work find your deals... I for one do not expect you to share your sources with me. Two of the individuals I respect the most on this form are Nicolino and Killertweety. I have done deals with both... did they charge more than "retail" absolutely they did.Howver I expect that and felt the prices fairly reflected the market value... I know they at some point in the past they paid less... but they did the work... found a source... and sold at a price I was willing to pay to help complete the collection.[/quote]

Again, you're missing the point. No one is disputing if people should or shouldn't pay premiums for Tenyo magic, this is about a very specific circumstance and simply how money can ruin a good thing. Quite simple really.

[quote]I'm frankly a little suprised at the "outrage" on this. Believe me, I am willing to help someone with questions, instructions,etc. But don't expect me to hand over sources or contacts to you that I have worked hard to obtain... I certainly don't expect that from you.[/quote]

I think you're the only one outraged. This isn't about handing over sources, this is about concealing A KNOWN source right under the noses of everyone for financial gain. It's really a commentary about ethics and fair play more than anything else, but it doesn't surprise me that you're not getting this. It seems to me you're simply trying to stir the sh*t and I'm glad to stir it with you, though I know through logic it will be a pointless game of Tic-Tac-Toe. I agree to disagree.

John

Tom
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Oct 14, 2011 01:22AM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-14 00:26, Inert wrote:
John

Hi Mate. No disagreement from me. I interpreted the outrage to be directed at those who plunder for plunder sake with little or no regard at all for the Love of Tenyo, illusions, collecting or ethics. Many avid fans have spent thousands on their collection. The above retail resale price is a common practice amongst many to help recoup their cash outlay in this pursuit. Increased prices also occur of course due to retiring of older stock & intentional hoarding. Gouging is a different matter. It just costs everyone more & I believe that it hurts the whole magic field. Personally, I always ask the seller some technical questions, just to get a feel of their headspace & dedication level. The unifying thread is a fondness of the subject & of the very items. Many have spent years & countless hours in their continual quest. I think that I have written this before somewhere, but I must reiterate my sadness for the eager youngster just starting out in magic. It is now at the state where a budding, young enthusiast cannot learn their craft with the building blocks of Tenyo due to prices. How many future talents have we lost?
[/quote]

Smart man. Bingo. You hit the nail on the head.
Message: Posted by: stereo (Oct 14, 2011 08:33AM)
Who is Presto? Can someone explain to me simply? I find it hard to follow lol
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Oct 14, 2011 10:51AM)
Houdini... we will agree to disagree. Don't pretend to be able to read anything in my posts. Many of the regulars here know my MO is not to stir the s%$t as you have so nicely put it. Check my past posts if you feel that way. I have a passion for Tenyo and have spent many hours and homework tracking down the items I have secured. I found Presto from cold calling and PLEASE DO NOT CALL ME A LIAR without having your facts straight... I know what conversations I have had.

I find it troublsome that you feel the need to suggest what people should be selling an item for... it is frankly none of your business and market forces will dictate what the price should be just like in any other field. I particularly found your tone with DLF to be insulting (I do not know him by the way). I reapeat I have never sold a Tenyo item but have no issue with someone making a profit (no matter how large) when they do. Stereo and others here have listed items for fairly substantial prices... more power to them if they can get them. Why do you have such an issue with that?

Finally, I will repeat what I have said before.. I love the sharing on here of ideas, method speculation, giving instructions. etc. Where I personally draw the line is giving up all my contacts and sources to anyone that asks... I've done the work... sorry.
Message: Posted by: stereo (Oct 14, 2011 11:21AM)
I think there is no harm to try to make good business.
As against this what I do not like is people who cheat too often on ebay with fake bids to raise prices artificially for their own benefit. Also I would not allow myself to offer here on the forum items whose price is clearly not in line with the public of Tenyo fan of this forum.
Everyone has a different life, we can all need money for one reason or another and we should not blame people for that from the time they are honest.
I can put an item on ebay with a big price, sometimes because I do not really want to part with it except for a good price, sometimes because life sometimes forces me, but so far it does not prevent me from being generous at other times with other people. It does not prevent me each time to care for my packaging to wrapping with gift paper and a small kind words, does not stop me from being conciliatory with other Tentyo fan and to trade a magic trick against another one that has less value then I could sell much more expensive on ebay or even to try to please by offering a brand new Tenyo trick while I do not have enough money to buy a tshirt.
I think we need to measure a person throughout his or her actions in general.
Message: Posted by: med_doc7 (Oct 14, 2011 12:10PM)
John,

When you have a moment, please comment on my above post in response to yours. I truly don't understand why you would not be willing to help others acquire Tenyo in the name of fellowship and having a common interest. So you put in the work; I get it. Are you averse to guiding others so that they don't have to reinvent the wheel? If so, why? I myself, like you, have paid big money for many items. The more people I can communicate with about Tenyo the better.

I am sorry but I would be glad to tell anyone about any contacts that I have. So what if it took time to locate them. It may save others time, so that they can procure much needed items. I disagree with you very strongly on this point. Sounds like greed to me in this one instance. I'm nit calling you a greedy person, truly I'm not, but in this instance when you say you've put in the work and expect others to redefine the wheel from square one, it is ridiculous.

I am a physician by training. Using your logic medical care would not ave advanced to where it is today because research would not have been shared and collaboration would not take place. Different subject entirely but the analogy I feel is a good one. When the first sulfa drug was invented a while ago, Fleming used the biology and collaborated so that he could better humankind with penicillin. He didn't reinvent the wheel. Eventually other antibiotics, each more powerful than the preceding, were invented. Each used the prior as a building block. So there was fellowship in medicine and thank goodness for that.

So I can't understand why divulging contacts to other collectors/stores who may have a common interest and may be able to collaborate/sell/trade/assist/buy is such heresy. All I can think about is greed. I like to help others and while everyone should work hard, if I have dug in and done groundwork on something, in glad to offer a helping hand in any way that I can throughout ny life. Whether this be in the working or playing world, this, at least, applies to me.

I work hard everyday. So do you, I suspect. Why not help others if you've done the work is what I ask? Honestly, with regard to dollars and cents, I would personally rather save a friend a dollar rather than collecting it. I fear we are different in this respect, based in your posts. Different philosophy. Oh well.
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Oct 14, 2011 12:44PM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-14 11:51, J M Talbot wrote:
Houdini... we will agree to disagree. Don't pretend to be able to read anything in my posts.[/quote]

Here we go with your lack of logic again, anyone can read anything they like into a posting and you certainly "PRETENDED" to be able to read into my postings. Don't dish it out if you can't take it. Now it seems you're the one doing the whining.


[quote]Many of the regulars here know my MO is not to stir the s%$t as you have so nicely put it.[/quote]

John, you clearly posted inflammatory rethoric with intent. While I know you have a very high opinion of yourself, I am also a regular and your post's lack tact at times, so I'm not sure everyone shares your esteemed opinion of yourself.


[quote]Check my past posts if you feel that way. I have a passion for Tenyo and have spent many hours and homework tracking down the items I have secured. I found Presto from cold calling and PLEASE DO NOT CALL ME A LIAR without having your facts straight... I know what conversations I have had.[/quote]

I never outright called you a liar, I am however calling BS on your statement that Presto and John encouraged you to sell Tenyo on eBay. So I'm basically saying I believe you're either exaggerating, possibly making it up (or possibly lying), or you misinterpreted them.

For what it's worth, I don't believe you found Presto by cold calling, but that's just my opinion.

[quote]I find it troublsome that you feel the need to suggest what people should be selling an item for... it is frankly none of your business and market forces will dictate what the price should be just like in any other field.[/quote]

So you're basically saying you find it troubling I have an opinion. Well John, this is the USA, I have a right to an opinion as do you. Just as you feel it's none of my business to comment postively or adversely on what an item should be selling for, I feel it's none of your business to stick your nose where it doesn't belong Tenyo Sheriff Talbot.

[quote]I particularly found your tone with DLF to be insulting (I do not know him by the way).[/quote]

John, I'll say it again, I DON'T CARE IF YOU FOUND IT INSULTING. I could absolutely care less. I find YOU insulting, who cares. Your logic is skewed and you reveal it more and more with every post. If you don't like my posts, DON'T READ THEM. Simple.

[quote]I reapeat I have never sold a Tenyo item but have no issue with someone making a profit (no matter how large) when they do. Stereo and others here have listed items for fairly substantial prices... more power to them if they can get them. Why do you have such an issue with that?[/quote]

You must have one hell of a guilty conscience about something, you're constantly admonishing yourself. No one mentioned your name in any of the posts that you did anything, no one has implied you did anything wrong (expect starting a flame war) and yet you're taking a commentary as if it were directed at you. You seem to be guilty of something, but I don't really care, I'm not you're judge nor is anyone else trying to be.

[quote]Finally, I will repeat what I have said before.. I love the sharing on here of ideas, method speculation, giving instructions. etc. Where I personally draw the line is giving up all my contacts and sources to anyone that asks... I've done the work... sorry.
[/quote]

No one asked for your rolodex John, again, you've missed the point by a football field.
Message: Posted by: daddy_bone (Oct 14, 2011 02:45PM)
Listen guys this is a forum about Tenyo, not drama!
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Oct 14, 2011 02:57PM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-14 15:45, daddy_bone wrote:
Listen guys this is a forum about Tenyo, not drama!
[/quote]

LOL

I know, it's ridiculous, I'm done wasting keystrokes. Made my point.
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Oct 14, 2011 05:17PM)
Wow...
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Oct 14, 2011 06:20PM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-14 18:17, Nicolino wrote:
Wow...
[/quote]

Didn't John just say the same thing?
Message: Posted by: towledge (Oct 14, 2011 08:14PM)
Hi guys,

Been busy with family stuff lately.

This is a bit off topic but why the flood and I mean flood of new traffic on ebay last few days?
Is Tenyo going out of business or something? It's like a worldwide rush to put stuff up for auction.

Am I missing something?
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Oct 14, 2011 10:04PM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-14 21:14, towledge wrote:
Hi guys,

Been busy with family stuff lately.

This is a bit off topic but why the flood and I mean flood of new traffic on ebay last few days?
Is Tenyo going out of business or something? It's like a worldwide rush to put stuff up for auction.

Am I missing something?
[/quote]

HAHA! I know, it's nuts. People are unloading their Presto inventory while they still can! LOL ;)
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Oct 15, 2011 07:55AM)
I'm sorry to say and I don't want to offend anyone, but in my opinion some people are overreacting a bit, they even seem to be a bit frustrated perhaps.
As for me, I have bought a lot of old Tenyo years ago in a shop in Holland (I heard of this Presto Magic a few years ago on this forum by the way but never contacted the guy - so was it a real big secret? Nah ...). I drove 200 miles to Holland and back and bought for approx. 1500 EURO. For my own collection and for spares and for trading purposes. Years ago the only thing that existed was Angelo Carbone's site and Tenyo wasn't as expensive as it now is. I have spent literally hundreds of EURO's to bring my collection to where it is now, also with buying stuff on Ebay (not that long ago COin case for 320 UsD), well the money has to come from somewhere doesn't it?

As I mention on my website my goal is to once have a complete Tenyo collection and when you want that you need hard cash. I have traded a lot and also sold to some people on this forum - and it's very obvious I was asking more then I payed for it .. DUH.
My Tenyo 'balance' by which I mean what it has costed me and what I gained from selling tricks is approx. 0 and I want to keep it that way.
I now buy sometimes on Ebay (foreign sites like .de, .es and .nl) and what do you expect me to do? Shout 'hey guys, look, there's a Crossroads for sale on Ebay.de - let's all bid on it! If you search thoroughly on the internet there are still bargains that you can do ... look up magic shops in the phone book and ask them ... visit cities with magic shops that don't have a website ... ask sellers of small shops that sell second hand Tenyo to contact you when they have a new (old) trick they acquire, ... I mean, do your homework ffs! Do you people have any idea how much trouble and effort (gasoline isn't exactly cheap in Europe) it has costed me over the years? Well forgive me for not mentioning every shop and website on this forum where I bought stuff ... .

When people want to buy something from me I think I always asked decent prices. When they want to buy something I would rather keep as my only spare (like the Nostradamus Clock Bill bought from me, remember Bill ;) ) I mention a high price because I'd rather keep it and know that it will become extremely tough to find in the future - what I ask is what I think is 'enough' for me to buy the same trick when it pops up on Ebay. And if someone wants to give me what I ask it's theirs - law of supply and demand.

I have absolutely no problem with people 'deliberatly hiding' shops that have old Tenyo - when I see Staurtle, MacMac, Nicolino, DLF, Stereo ... have loads of old stuff they are seling on Ebay or directly I slap myself to the head an think "darn, I sould have looked an searched more!" :) Where Nicolino mainly searches in Germany, Macmac and Stuartle in the U.K, Stereo in France, DLF in th USA, ... I have done my homework in Belgium and Holland. I don't have anymore 'secret' shops,unfortunately ;) And shops are becoming aware of the value of Tenyo, like this Dutch shop which has vintage Tenyo http://www.dynamitemagic.nl (go and take a look, but don't be surprised of the asking prices).

And so what if someone is not really interested in Tenyo and just does it to earn a few bucks? I realy don't see the poblem. Perhaps it isn't ethical in some people's minds, I really don't care, I even congratulate everyone that finds these old tenyo stashes! If it weren't for them lot's of old Tenyo wouldn't even BE for sale on the internet! Ever though about that?

Anyway, I believe I have made my point, and if someone dislikes me for that well so be it. I'm always happy to trade, scan manuals, give advise and sell old stuff for yes, sometimess high prices.
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Oct 15, 2011 10:02AM)
Tweety,

I think the main point has been totally lost. You make some of the same points as John, very cyclical discussion that's gone nowhere.

BTW, no one ever said Presto was a secret, there was an old thread mentioning Presto's Tenyo stash years ago that got very little activity. Everyone knew about it but made it like they had found this SECRET supplier, ridiculous.

To each his own, but the main point is it would be nice to help each other out with our collections through goodwill and trading rather price gouge and monopolize a find for profits. I see this forum as a magic forum first and foremost, collector's forum second, and marketplace third, but that's just me.

MacMac likes trading BTW.

Most of you guys are a clique and there are ill forces at work for which I think is a bit juvenile.
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Oct 15, 2011 12:08PM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-15 11:02, Houdini103126 wrote:
Most of you guys are a clique and there are ill forces at work....
[/quote]
May the farce be with you.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Oct 15, 2011 04:05PM)
Killertweety... thanks

med_doc I am sure our philosophy is close in many areas. I unfortunately allowed one poster to cause me to get a little worked up <g>... that has passed. If you ever have any specific questions you think I may be able to help with please do not hesitate to pm me. Contrary to what one individual has posted I can actually be helpful at times.

I am now heading back to the secret inner old boy's club...<g>

Cheers,

John
Message: Posted by: 723sabre (Oct 15, 2011 05:08PM)
Killertweety- nicely stated.

Houdini103126- I understand your point of wanting folks to think about being helpful to one another. After all, it is part of the reason The Magic Café' was created wasn't it?

At this point I think it's clear some folks are in it for profit, some folks are in it to build collections, and many are also willing to help others. The underlying strength of Tenyo collectors as a group is a shared passion for these little bits of magic and excitement when they find another long sought after piece. I enjoy reading about other's successes and who knows, I may have one to share myself in the future!

It would be nice to think everyone wants to help others and share good finds, sell their extra bargain items at cost, etc. But some folks don't give a ***, and frankly, that's the way it works in this world of ours. So be it, I just don't pay their prices. I can live without this stuff in the end...

I find many people here ARE helpful, and as Killertweety states, usually sell to help build their collections and want to trade for similar rarity or similar cost items. Heck, that's fair.

Now back to the original intent of this topic.

My personal greatest bargains at different times and places are Prison Box for $15.00, Diabolicus for $22.00 (on Ebay if you can believe that...), and Soft Coins for $13.00, all new. My big mistake was not getting Bare Bones when I had the chance for $25.00 about a year ago. I have no idea what the hell was wrong with me that day!! Anyway, I haven't been so lucky to get rare stuff for next to nothing, but I was excited to get the things I have.

Thanks folks!
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Oct 15, 2011 05:25PM)
Some nice deals 723... I just received a Tenyo wooden card frame (made by Mikame). Paid $118 on ebay not a bad price given what this item has sold for in the past... very nice piece... although I think the "action" is faster on the newer version.

John
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Oct 15, 2011 06:16PM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-15 17:05, J M Talbot wrote:
Killertweety... thanks

med_doc I am sure our philosophy is close in many areas.[/quote]

Yeah right John, I'm sure you're philosophy is very close to med_doc's, now you're a sycophant to top it off. He's a physician so you're philosophy must be like his, par for the course considering your high opinion of yourself.

[quote]I unfortunately allowed one poster to cause me to get a little worked up <g>...[/quote]

Be careful getting worked up John, you might fall down and hurt yourself.

[quote]If you ever have any specific questions you think I may be able to help with please do not hesitate to pm me. Contrary to what one individual has posted I can actually be helpful at times.[/quote]

What a brown noser.

[quote]I am now heading back to the secret inner old boy's club...<g>[/quote]

Say hello to club president Felix for me!
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Oct 15, 2011 07:20PM)
Just to clairify... Killertweety is President, Felix is Treasurer... although he has a good shot at President next term.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Oct 15, 2011 08:23PM)
My apologies, in the interest of full disclosure I meant to post the Agenda of our upcoming meeting...

Tenyo Old Boys's Club - October Meeting
Location: Felix's Secret Warehouse - Germany

1) Determine source of Presto leak... must be eliminated
2) Have we finally acquired all remaining copies of Ninja Experiment?
3) 723 acquires Prison Box for $15... unacceptable
and finally something we can only quietly refer to as the "HH experiment"

Scotch and cigars following business session
Message: Posted by: 723sabre (Oct 15, 2011 08:43PM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-15 21:23, J M Talbot wrote:
My apologies, in the interest of full disclosure I meant to post the Agenda of our upcoming meeting...

Tenyo Old Boys's Club - October Meeting
Location: Felix's Secret Warehouse - Germany

1) Determine source of Presto leak... must be eliminated
2) Have we finally acquired all remaining copies of Ninja Experiment?
3) 723 acquires Prison Box for $15... unacceptable
and finally something we can only quietly refer to as the "HH experiment"

Scotch and cigars following business session
[/quote]

As per agenda item #3, am I allowed 2 minutes for a defense? (It was a moment of rash exuberance...)

I may be a dash late as I need to pack. I've got to polish up my German too! Lastly, is beer served during the meeting? Seems only right being in Germany and all. I'll have a Bitburger Pils please..."Bitte Ein Bit" !
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Oct 15, 2011 09:07PM)
Be aware that a blindfold is required for the last 100km's of the trip. Yes beer is acceptable for invited guests. You will be required to fully disclose the Prison Box source, we will "take care" of the rest.

John
Message: Posted by: 723sabre (Oct 15, 2011 09:14PM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-15 22:07, J M Talbot wrote:
Be aware that a blindfold is required for the last 100km's of the trip. Yes beer is acceptable for invited guests. You will be required to fully disclose the Prison Box source, we will "take care" of the rest.

John
[/quote]

Awwww...I hate those dang blindfolds! But, for a good German Beer, what the heck. Can you use a Tenyo silk for the blindfold though?

(now I need to work on my Prison Box defense)
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Oct 15, 2011 09:20PM)
Yes everyone does... however Felix insists. Of course we use a Tenyo silk... what else?

And please do not try the "I only thought I was getting a good deal" defense... we've heard it before.

John
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Oct 16, 2011 03:59AM)
Thanks for attending the gathering, gentlemen!

Of course, snacks and beverages will be served for all of you. [i]Beer[/i] in mind, though, that no [i]wining[/i] about hypocrisy will be tolerated - we are here for one goal only: taking over the Tenyo world!

PS: The [i]'HH Experiment'[/i] will most probably require the consiliary aid of a doctor, so we count on you, med_doc!
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Oct 16, 2011 05:53AM)
I will vouch for med_doc... I believe he is "one of us"... I have just about completed the background check. There is one questionable photo I have found with a Chu's magic prop... other than that he appears clean.

John
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Nov 7, 2011 06:21AM)
Back on topic ;)
Recently: 2 x Against Gravity for 15 EURO/piece (mint in packaging, English version), a Match To Flower (mint) for 10 EURO and a Billscape (mint) for 20 EURO :bg:
An no the source isn't Presto Magic ;) - just a big amount of luck browsing websites and finding someone who stumbled upon 'a big box with [i]weird Japanese stuff[/i] from an old magic shop ...).
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Nov 7, 2011 11:46AM)
You lucky son of a b$%#@! Still looking for a Billscape... Seriously, congratulations on a great find!

John
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Nov 12, 2011 12:13PM)
First post on this Forum!
A friend,purchased a box of magic tricks,and gave me one of the items(free),because I am into the Spooky. Was not sure what it was until yesterday , seeing one on ebay!
The item is 'The Haunted'. I am not a Tenyo collector ,but was curious to if it is a sought after item?
It is in perfect shape,but has no instructions or package. I understand how it works,but would love to know if someone has the instructions,they could copy/scan to send to me.
If my question about getting instructions is out of place,please excuse me!
And,does anyone have around about ideal of value the piece? The one on ebay was $400.00 or best offer,new in sealed package!
Thanks for any comments,
Gary
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Nov 12, 2011 02:38PM)
Hello Gary and welcome

If you provide me your e-mail in a personal message I'm happy to send you the instructions.

The last Haunting without packaging sold for approx. 125 USD on Ebay, less then a year ago. I believe it would be worth something in the range of 150 (perhaps 200) USD for a serious Tenyo collector that wants to add this trick to her or his collection.
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Nov 12, 2011 03:06PM)
You are a good bunch of guys/gals in this forum! :)
I have received a PM from stereo and a welcome and offer from Killertweety !
I posted the wrong name, it was 'The Haunting'.
I have sent a couple of PM's.

Thanks again,
Gary
Message: Posted by: Gzero (Dec 1, 2011 02:32PM)
My last bargain: 3€ for a Tenyo Spinning Plate On Rope, with box!! I think it's a good price, no?!
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Dec 1, 2011 02:39PM)
Very good price Gzero! Welcome!

John
Message: Posted by: stereo (Dec 2, 2011 06:55AM)
I Have see one Tenyo spinning plate on rope on ebay, but just the box, no props lol
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Jan 15, 2012 02:31PM)
After reading this thread I am sad to say that I have never gotten a great deal on a Tenyo trick.

I have gotten some at discount prices but nothing like the deals that Nicolino has found. What he has found is truly amazing.

I don't know any secret places to find the tricks. Everywhere that I look (ebay US, online magic shops) is well covered.

At this point I would be happy to get some of the harder to find tricks that I want at prices less than ridiculous.

Can anyone help?
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Jan 16, 2012 06:25AM)
Don't worry, John - these so called bargains often are not [i]that [/i]cheap if you consider the amount of time and effort one has to invest on order to nail them down...
Just a thought...