(Close Window)
Topic: Vanish
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (May 9, 2011 03:07AM)
I'm working on perfecting the vanish .

I've put probably at least 1500 hours into it so far. I need 8,500 more to world class mastery.

At this point I've stopped counting, so I'm not exactly sure. The hours don't matter anymore. But, I'm never happy with it. Sometimes I think I see an improvement, then discount it as nothing later. In this instance, I think the middle part of the trick still sucks, but the 'pop' appears better. What do you think? Do you see any improvement? The reason I am still practicing it is because I want complete mastery. That is what I see improvement in it. I don't want to impress magicians, or laymen, I want to master something for myself. For the self gratitude I never feel when I accomplish something. I just want to feel important -- I've never felt it my entire life. In this video, and I've been practicing this for over a year now, a new method to put the coin into FP. I use a muscle pass...
You can do it from a good distance too. To make the coin travel there instantly, then instantly produce it. The hands do not come close. (except in this instance the hands did..)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnwql8kLArc
Message: Posted by: jazzy snazzy (May 9, 2011 04:09AM)
Excellent work!
That reallt looks magical.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Lyle (May 9, 2011 07:52AM)
Wow!
Message: Posted by: pabloinus (May 9, 2011 09:10AM)
It is very good, there is some movement in the right hand that could be avoided, but this is a comment for the camera ..., I don't think that anybody looking will realize that.

I think the vanish is great.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Lyle (May 9, 2011 09:25AM)
I'm more of a card guy. I do a few coin bits but do not know the ins and outs of coin sleights like I do cards. Again...WOW! Fooled me and I've watched it several times now. Not a clue!
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (May 9, 2011 02:32PM)
VERY nice Kevin!

Mick
Message: Posted by: Schism (May 9, 2011 08:36PM)
Looks Awesome! Great work.
Message: Posted by: whiteoakcanyon (May 10, 2011 06:44AM)
It looks great!
Message: Posted by: Steve Griffin (May 10, 2011 09:47AM)
Very nice vanish Fishsticks!

I've not seen your previous efforts so I couldn't comment on improvements, but I'll have to agree with you that the middle part is probably the weakest part, but the vanish itself and the pop-up at the end are very nice.

Is this this Harada Hold (or something similar?) Realistically, how are the angles in a real-world setting?

Steve
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (May 10, 2011 09:40PM)
Its similiar to the harada hold. I'm working on a trick called A.V.A by an incredible magician named Lawrens Godon, also. The middle part of the vanish bugs the heck out of me. I can't get it smooth yet , at least on video. I WILL get it good eventually.

Angles are tricky but as long as the spectator is in front of you and sitting down it flies.

I did it for someone today and they really enjoyed it.
Message: Posted by: Steve Griffin (May 16, 2011 02:43PM)
Yeah, retrieving the coin is always going to be awkward, at least in a controlled way... Do you perform it silent or with patter?
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (May 16, 2011 02:53PM)
Awesome, Fish Sticks ! I had to watch several times to pick up flaws...could not find any ! Wonderful Job !
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (May 16, 2011 07:08PM)
[quote]
On 2011-05-16 15:43, Steve Griffin wrote:
Yeah, retrieving the coin is always going to be awkward, at least in a controlled way... Do you perform it silent or with patter?
[/quote]

Kind of silent....I should probably use patter, more suits myself.

The sad part is, retrieving the coin isn't hard, it's making the middle part of the trick look natural on video. It looks much better in person. Thanks to everyone!

Oh, also, I'm thinking of doing it differently. I'm thinking of slowing it down quite a bit. Even from where it's at now. I think it will give spectators more time to react, and process what has happened. I think pausing right before the 'pop' at the end is critical too.
Message: Posted by: Steve Griffin (May 17, 2011 05:58AM)
Yeah, that's a nice idea man. I think, for me, the up and down motions of the two hands after the vanish are what look odd - it just appears to be very unmotivated

My suggestion (for what it's worth!) would be to lead in with some kind of patter line, perform the vanish silent, hold that palms-out pose perfectly stationary (and still silent) for a beat, then relax back and throw in a line/question to force an offbeat, and in that moment, perform the retrieval more or less exactly as do are there, but rather than turning it into a very deliberate hand-washing sequence (which is how it comes across to me in the video), make it a completely incidental display ie. without the pointing and sweeping gestures. You can then bring the attention back in, and perform the revelation in silence again.

Just my opinions, of course! What you've got there really is right on the verge of being a very beautiful piece of magic, so feel free to tell me to mind my own *** business and stop interfering! :P

Cheers,

Steve
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (May 17, 2011 04:15PM)
It really doesn't look unnatural in person. Video seems to really amplify it. Spectators never catch on..I do see your point. I will use this for magicians, perhaps spectators too if it's a very glaring issue.

It may not be the most natural way to do it. I just, wanted to do it the way Ponta did it in his video. I just always felt that if he could do it, so could I.I modified the transfer, which is slightly different. I think Marion said he liked it (Correct me if I'm wrong), also I had one guy on youtube say he liked mine more than ponta's (its shown in the first vanish video), ponta told me it was better than his, he thought. He said he couldn't do it like that.

Maybe I should just do it my own way. My own method of doing it, is similiar to Ponta's, but slightly different. There is no fumbling or "get ready". Hard to explain without exposure. Or I could do it the way taught in the video (No pointing). It's just I saw ponta's youtube video, wanted to do it just like him, but I got to be myself too. There's a point in which we have to be ourselves. This is difficult. And I need to take people's advice and take an acting class or two. I can do the middle part of the vanish (most ackward) 3 ways.
Message: Posted by: Steve Griffin (May 17, 2011 05:44PM)
That's fair, the camera angle isn't going to help.. When all that's really is frame is your hands, that's all we're going to look at eh?

Well it certainly sounds as though you've achieved your goal of wanting to match/better Ponta's handling of the effect. So, to my mind, the next logical progression is - as you rightly say - to make it your own.. Which is a pretty exciting place to be if you ask me!
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (May 17, 2011 08:27PM)
There's no excuse really. If you look at ponta's youtube video, it is far, far above mine. Mine is good, but it is not that took or close to that level yet. I've taken all the constructive feedback and comments so far on this thread to heart, both positive and negative (Although there was no negative, it was constructive feedback, I appreciate that)

I've put in approximately 1500 hours. It will 8,500 more hours to achieve mastery. This is considered Ponta's level "world class" mastery. I feel once I get to that level it will no longer look ackward on video, at least in that method. The reason it doesn't look as good as his yet is simple, he's had MUCH, much more practice than me.

I'm working everyday to tweak it to make it better/more natural.
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (May 17, 2011 10:30PM)
Looks really great to me. The vanish was excellent, and I loved how you used the muscle pass at the end. You already know about the middle and making it more smooth so no need for me to say what's already been said there. if it's alright with you, I would like to give you one suggestion that helps me when making my hands look natural. Perhaps try doing the routine without the coins and moving your hands in a way that would be more natural looking. I find that when practicing a routine that I'm trying to learn, practicing without coins makes it easier for me to see where I might need adjustments to not only help with concealments but with keeping my hands moving more natural looking. If there seems to be a clear reason why the hands are moving the way they are, the hands will also look more natural in the sense that the movements are not just meaningless moves. From the video you seem to have an idea of how to show the hands, and go through the motions, I think that you just need to trust your hands more, let them relax and not think about the coin.
Message: Posted by: jackofspades11 (May 17, 2011 11:06PM)
Very nice vanish! It looks stellar, keep up the good work!
Message: Posted by: Brian Tanner (May 17, 2011 11:58PM)
Very cool! You can tell that you've put in a lot of practice on this. Keep up the good work!
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (May 19, 2011 02:41PM)
I've been trying new things, and remembered something I was told before. It seems to help if you rotate the hands a bit. Now I did this way too fast, but I took the best shot, it seems to help with the middle part of the trick. What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS-KfwRJ-ek

I also made this video, I'm currently working on it, I didn't want to post it in another thread (don't want to clutter up the forum).
I still have a lot of work to do on it, but this trick by Lawrens Godon is really making me happy. Finally I can do it consistently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjFQzMZ8rAI
The beginning obviously needs some work. It's too big of a movement, but it's all still in the beginning stanges. My goal is to make it as perfect as Lawrens one day! I hope also to one day create my own tricks.
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (Jun 21, 2011 03:59PM)
I showed the vanish to chris kenner at IMX, and he really loved it it seemed! He said it was smooth as hell.. this was probably one of the best feelings in my life, for him to say such a thing I felt very happy and proud of what I've accomplished, for the first time.

Steve, I like your audience about doing the vanish silently, then asking a question. Perhaps do that, then ask "Did you see where it went?" or something similia, while looking at them and doing the middle part. Then perhaps say, "The coins disappear almost like liquid metal, they evaporate. But, I can make them re-appear the same way, instantly." and then do the production. I'm experimenting with it, trying to pause a little before the final 'pop'. I feel it gives it more climax. I'm also trying to slow the whole routine down. I feel it has more impact this way, and, it looks better on video I think. I'm also trying out an idea. On the vanish itself, intsead of being instant, perhaps drawing more attention to the left hand by doing a crumbling motion, slowly opening both hands at that point to show it's gone. It's more dramatic, draws more attention to the right areas, and probably has more of an impact since it is slower.
Message: Posted by: ViolinKing (Jun 21, 2011 08:53PM)
I am really shocked by the glowing positive responses to your video. Why is it that when I watch your video, all I can see is you sliding a coin off of the back of your hand?

To be honest, I just thought it might be helpful if you heard someone say that, because honestly that's all I see when I watch your video. Helpful how? Well, that's what I see, and it may be that spectators will see the same thing and not tell you.
Message: Posted by: arios0 (Jun 21, 2011 11:04PM)
You do flash in the video. Maybe re-up without the flash. The great thing about videos is you can try it as many times as you like.
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (Jun 22, 2011 12:11AM)
Well thanks for your helpful advice.

Most of the time spectators do not notice, unless its very slow. The misdirection is too strong, but there always is going to be a slight flash, especially on video. Perhaps the last video the move was a bit too slow. I'll delete it.

I need to work on a theme, something to say. I created this for the aspie forums, didn't want to post it here, as I promised Eric Jones my next video I would talk in it..I feel terrible not holding up my end of the promise. But, I'll post it anyway since I'm removing the other one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBsJlSq0tWY
Message: Posted by: lukecloughmagic (Jun 22, 2011 05:26AM)
Beautiful to watch!!!
Message: Posted by: Watchmaker (Jun 22, 2011 06:27AM)
Mr. Sticks,

It is obvious the time you have invested, it looks wonderful.

Now make your bed.

Respectfully,

Phil
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (Jun 22, 2011 10:38PM)
Violin, and arios, thanks for your comment and PM. To be honest, your comment made me pretty angry/upset. I Guess at myself, since I invested so much time in it, I was so mad at myself for it not being good enough.I have such a hard time accepting genuine critism. I tend to see only the negatives. I can do it fast enough to not flash, but it is very difficult to do on camera.I didn't realize the flash was that bad. Frankly, the other routine I have not mastered yet and shouldn't even be posting it.But I understand you both are trying to help and have good intentions.
Message: Posted by: ViolinKing (Jun 24, 2011 12:53AM)
Fish Sticks:
Yeah, I am trying to help. Well, not only that, but really I was just shocked that no-one had said it. Maybe I'm wrong.
Message: Posted by: dxsare (Jun 24, 2011 10:46PM)
I couldn't imagine practicing one vanish for 1500 hrs, let alone 10K but hey that vanish of yours looks great. I can't even begin to do it smoothly. You really practiced that for 1500 hrs??

Stevie D
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (Jun 25, 2011 11:02PM)
Yeah.

I don't do it smooth yet heh.At least I don't think so!

Thanks