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Topic: Lassen gaffs question
Message: Posted by: Fez (May 25, 2011 08:06AM)
Hello, I just had a quick question. I recently bought a used Morgan Fl##per and sh#ll made by Lassen. The seller said the coins are from 2006 hence there is no Lassen logo on it. Is that true? I called Todd Lassen up and he gave a mixed answer. Since many of you own Lassen gaffs, I would like a second opinion. I know the newer gaffs have the logo, so this goes out to the people with older coins from Todd.

Thanks beforehand and I appreciate the help!

-Fez
Message: Posted by: Wes65 (May 25, 2011 08:43AM)
My Cerberus gimmick may be pre 2006 and has no logo on it.
Message: Posted by: Fez (May 25, 2011 08:53AM)
[quote]
On 2011-05-25 09:43, Wes65 wrote:
My Cerberus gimmick may be pre 2006 and has no logo on it.
[/quote]

Did you purchase directly from Todd or from another source?
Message: Posted by: NicholasD (May 25, 2011 08:54AM)
I have sliding shell sets, expanded shells, flippers. None of my older Lassen gaffs have the logo. All were purchased directly from Lassen.
Message: Posted by: Fez (May 25, 2011 09:03AM)
[quote]
On 2011-05-25 09:54, NicholasD wrote:
I have sliding shell sets, expanded shells, flippers. None of my older Lassen gaffs have the logo. All were purchased directly from Lassen.
[/quote]

Awesome thanks to both of y'all!
Message: Posted by: aqmagish20 (May 25, 2011 10:51AM)
I have purchased for many years from Todd directly. Some had the logo, some not. All of the recent years do. I would say 2006 is right on the line.
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (May 25, 2011 11:25AM)
Yea 2006 sounds right! I have some real old stuff from around 2000 or before! and no Logo on it! And all my stuff comes right fron Todd!
Message: Posted by: Fez (May 25, 2011 12:31PM)
Ahh thank god (well actually all of you) for the help! It kind of gives me a peace of mind. I just hope these coins are authentic Lassens...i got them from nicestuffa on ebay and I've heard mixed reviews about this seller....
Message: Posted by: BanzaiMagic (May 25, 2011 01:07PM)
I was going to say, so long as you didn't buy them from Niceastuffa...

I bought a triple threat from Niceastuffa years ago before I knew anything about him, and fortunately it was real and good quality. Others have bought supposed Lassen items that turn out not to be made by him and were of very low quality. I am sure you have looked on Lassen's blog (if you haven't, do a search on his blog for "Frank Paris" and see the comments section).

The key way to tell if it is real is the quality and functionality of the gaff. The fl***er will be exceptional, quiet, and nearly invisible on the back side. Both the sh**l and the Fl***er will be made with a tight tolerance (almost no gap). Also, a Lassen sh**l is designed to fit the coins that come with it in the set, but not necessarily any other Morgan dollars and it will fit all of the coins in the set perfectly - there should be no variation in how well they fit. If this is a dean's set, this should be obvious. If it is an exp**ded set, the thing to worry about is whether Frank substituted another ungimmicked coin. Look for any variation in color. Lassen sets are known for careful selection for color and wear, so all of the coins should look the same (including the fl***er coin). Also, although my Lassen sh**l set does not include a fl***er, I believe that Lassen makes the sh**l so that it fits perfectly over the fl***er as well. If I am wrong about that, Dave, feel free to chime in.

Hope that helps.

In the future, stay away from Niceastuffa! (if for no other reason because resale is difficult)
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (May 25, 2011 04:49PM)
Yea He does! And He is makeing me A cut down Fl***er To go with my 3.T. gaff! :) Now that is going to be cool! :)
Message: Posted by: dxsare (May 25, 2011 06:32PM)
Oh man, that guy from ebay niceastuffa or whatever.... love how he sells lassen sets that cost around $350 from lassen himself, yet he sells them for $850+ what a jerk

Stevie D
Message: Posted by: jprace (May 25, 2011 06:39PM)
The Expanded Shell does not always fit over other gaffed coins.
I got all my coins from Todd, and my shell doesn't fit over my matching flipper or CSB.

However, they're amazing!
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (May 25, 2011 09:23PM)
Did you get them at the same time, And ask for that?
Message: Posted by: Fez (May 26, 2011 07:14AM)
[quote]
On 2011-05-25 14:07, BanzaiMagic wrote:
I was going to say, so long as you didn't buy them from Niceastuffa...

I bought a triple threat from Niceastuffa years ago before I knew anything about him, and fortunately it was real and good quality. Others have bought supposed Lassen items that turn out not to be made by him and were of very low quality. I am sure you have looked on Lassen's blog (if you haven't, do a search on his blog for "Frank Paris" and see the comments section).

The key way to tell if it is real is the quality and functionality of the gaff. The fl***er will be exceptional, quiet, and nearly invisible on the back side. Both the sh**l and the Fl***er will be made with a tight tolerance (almost no gap). Also, a Lassen sh**l is designed to fit the coins that come with it in the set, but not necessarily any other Morgan dollars and it will fit all of the coins in the set perfectly - there should be no variation in how well they fit. If this is a dean's set, this should be obvious. If it is an exp**ded set, the thing to worry about is whether Frank substituted another ungimmicked coin. Look for any variation in color. Lassen sets are known for careful selection for color and wear, so all of the coins should look the same (including the fl***er coin). Also, although my Lassen sh**l set does not include a fl***er, I believe that Lassen makes the sh**l so that it fits perfectly over the fl***er as well. If I am wrong about that, Dave, feel free to chime in.

Hope that helps.

In the future, stay away from Niceastuffa! (if for no other reason because resale is difficult)
[/quote]

Oh god...I should have done my research on this guy....So if the coins aren't authentic and are poorly made or just tangos or Johnsons instead, is it possible to file a claim or something? He had a No Returns Policy in the "Returns" Section.
Message: Posted by: BanzaiMagic (May 26, 2011 09:46AM)
[quote]
On 2011-05-26 08:14, Fez wrote:
Oh god...I should have done my research on this guy....So if the coins aren't authentic and are poorly made or just tangos or Johnsons instead, is it possible to file a claim or something? He had a No Returns Policy in the "Returns" Section.
[/quote]

You have to have a valid reason to return a "no return" magic item. How is your set? Do you have any reason to suspect they are not Lassen?
Message: Posted by: Octopus Sun (May 26, 2011 09:50AM)
Hope you paid by PayPal. You are covered by PayPal.
File a claim for items not being as advertised.
Fight this BS in every way possible.
Data mine for all the negative stuff you can find on this seller and
post it to PayPal as proof fo fraud.
Good Luck
PayPal will decide in your favor if you can gather the proof.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (May 26, 2011 03:32PM)
I'll wager Nicestuffa has a bit of a record with eBay. That may weigh in your defense should you need to claim for a return.
Message: Posted by: NicholasD (May 26, 2011 10:25PM)
That post seemed a little fishy to me, too.
Message: Posted by: dooblehorn (May 26, 2011 11:48PM)
[quote]
On 2011-05-26 10:50, Duaut wrote:
Hope you paid by PayPal. You are covered by PayPal.
File a claim for items not being as advertised.
Fight this BS in every way possible.
Data mine for all the negative stuff you can find on this seller and
post it to PayPal as proof fo fraud.
Good Luck
PayPal will decide in your favor if you can gather the proof.
[/quote]
paypal won't help, they're worthless when it comes to disputes...I know hind site is 20/20, but I just recommend dealing with Todd directly, you'll likely wait for your coins,
But in my opinion his stuff is amazing, and is worth the wait and the cost
Message: Posted by: runawayjag (May 27, 2011 01:01PM)
Actually, I've found Paypal to be VERY helpful in disputes, usually giving the benefit of the doubt to the buyer. The problem is, however, that most people withdraw the funds from their account immediately after a transaction, before the item even arrives to the buyer, so when the dispute is filed, even if the buyer wins, there are no funds to collect.

There is one seller on this site that requests buyers use the "Personal tab" on Paypal. When you do that the recipient of the funds incurs no fee, so it is usually in the interest of saving money. However, this party also realizes that Paypal will not enter into any dispute involving a Personal tab transaction since those are not supposed to be sales of any kind. This seller knows that and uses it to escape losing disputes with buyers, so be careful if anyone requests that. I paid dearly for such a tansaction here on the Café with an unscrupulous seller.
Message: Posted by: Octopus Sun (May 28, 2011 09:09AM)
PayPal works great, never had a problem.
But, you must provide the proof.
Message: Posted by: Fez (May 28, 2011 11:19PM)
Just an update, this was the worse set of gaffs I have seen. I will upload photos later. The fli***r was completely broken (the place where the band sets was poorly reattached. The [ was bent so the fli***r couldn't close all the way. The expanded [ itself was distorted terribly and was pressed inwards. When place on another morgan, it would simply rattle.

Just a side note, I work at a jewelry shop, and I can test metals. I used the scratch test where I scratched both gaffs on a black ceramic block. Then I put a 18k concentration of nitric acid. The fli***r scratches turned blue (meaning its real silver) and the expanded [ scratches disappeared (it looks like its tin or something).

I have opened a case through eBay and was "refunded" the money almost immediately. I was then instructed to send back the gaffs. I called up paypal and it turns out that the sellers paypal account had no funding, meaning he was trying to pull a fast one.

I don't get why some people try to ruin it for everyone else......I go to college and save up from my minimum wage job only to be ripped off by a jack ***.
Message: Posted by: BanzaiMagic (Nov 6, 2016 09:51AM)
He's back.

New name, though. Niceastuffa is now "preiauctions" but he is still selling "Lassen" gaffs. Still ships from Wantagh.

$850 for a supposed U3F.

Be careful with this guy.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/162270592253?ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F0%252Fe11021.m43.l3160%252F7%253Feuid%253D1c1d465df9774e1eba6a9bf2ba3182e6%2526bu%253D43192892581%2526loc%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fulk%25252Fitm%25252F162270592253%2526exe%253D15080%2526ext%253D38986%2526sojTags%253Dexe%253Dexe%252Cext%253Dext%252Cbu%253Dbu%2526ul_ref%253Dhttp%2525253A%2525252F%2525252Frover.ebay.com%2525252Frover%2525252F0%2525252F0%2525252F99%2525253Floc%2525253Dhttp%252525253A%252525252F%252525252Frover.ebay.com%252525252Frover%252525252F0%252525252Fe11021.m43.l3160%252525252F7%252525253Feuid%252525253D1c1d465df9774e1eba6a9bf2ba3182e6%2525252526bu%252525253D43192892581%2525252526loc%252525253Dhttp%25252525253A%25252525252F%25252525252Fwww.ebay.com%25252525252Fulk%25252525252Fitm%25252525252F162270592253%2525252526exe%252525253D15080%2525252526ext%252525253D38986%2525252526sojTags%252525253Dexe%252525253Dexe%252525252Cext%252525253Dext%252525252Cbu%252525253Dbu%25252526rvr_id%2525253D0%2526srcrot%253De11021.m43.l3160%2526rvr_id%253D0&ul_noapp=true
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Nov 6, 2016 08:34PM)
How did he come up with 100% positive feedback?
Message: Posted by: BanzaiMagic (Nov 6, 2016 08:44PM)
New name, new start - and he does sell some legit items (it's hard to fake promystic, for example). It appears he is also good with legal threats which might help him eliminate past bad reviews or warnings. I did a quick search on the Café, and I see that more threads warning magicians about this guy have disappeared - not sure why. This is one of the few I could still find.
Message: Posted by: BanzaiMagic (Nov 7, 2016 05:24PM)
I kept a copy of an old post I did in 2011 regarding Frank on a Magic Café thread that is now deleted. For background here it is:

[quote]Posted by: BanzaiMagic (Jun 7, 2011 2:51pm)

If there is any question as to whether Frank Virga/Frank Paris/Niceastuffa is the same person, a quick search on the internet answers the question (at least to my satisfaction):

http://www.therpf.com/f9/frank-virgas-knife-ebay-lying-about-48505/

The above site contains the following post from BlueMirageStudio [since changed to Luuke]:
"I'm posting this as a warning. The seller is not being honest. In fact he's downright lying.

He states it was a one of a kind item made for him. A lot of us know the history on this knife. Just a warning to stay away from the auction. It might be Frank himself still lying. The seller is niceastuff and he's in New York. Suprise, suprise.

In fact if you look at his selling history, you'll see he's into magic. Definately Frank."

For the very interesting backstory, see here:

http://www.jhyphen.com/miscellaneous/virga/virga.htm

Interesting guy.[/quote]

There is also this:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/news.admin.net-abuse.email/46c_1Jp5kfo
Message: Posted by: BanzaiMagic (Feb 6, 2017 10:06PM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2016, BanzaiMagic wrote:
He's back.

New name, though. Niceastuffa is now "preiauctions" but he is still selling "Lassen" gaffs. Still ships from Wantagh.

$850 for a supposed U3F.

Be careful with this guy.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/162270592253?ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F0%252Fe11021.m43.l3160%252F7%253Feuid%253D1c1d465df9774e1eba6a9bf2ba3182e6%2526bu%253D43192892581%2526loc%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fulk%25252Fitm%25252F162270592253%2526exe%253D15080%2526ext%253D38986%2526sojTags%253Dexe%253Dexe%252Cext%253Dext%252Cbu%253Dbu%2526ul_ref%253Dhttp%2525253A%2525252F%2525252Frover.ebay.com%2525252Frover%2525252F0%2525252F0%2525252F99%2525253Floc%2525253Dhttp%252525253A%252525252F%252525252Frover.ebay.com%252525252Frover%252525252F0%252525252Fe11021.m43.l3160%252525252F7%252525253Feuid%252525253D1c1d465df9774e1eba6a9bf2ba3182e6%2525252526bu%252525253D43192892581%2525252526loc%252525253Dhttp%25252525253A%25252525252F%25252525252Fwww.ebay.com%25252525252Fulk%25252525252Fitm%25252525252F162270592253%2525252526exe%252525253D15080%2525252526ext%252525253D38986%2525252526sojTags%252525253Dexe%252525253Dexe%252525252Cext%252525253Dext%252525252Cbu%252525253Dbu%25252526rvr_id%2525253D0%2526srcrot%253De11021.m43.l3160%2526rvr_id%253D0&ul_noapp=true [/quote]


Unfortunately, he is at it again:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magicians-Magic-Trick-Todd-Lassen-Custom-3-Fly-Coin-Set-/162384036773?hash=item25ced7c3a5:g:pE4AAOSw9GhYlkzZ
Based upon past behavior, this is likely not made by Todd Lassen.
Message: Posted by: warren (Feb 7, 2017 02:05AM)
I dodn't see what the issue is unless they are fake... am I missing something ?
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (Feb 7, 2017 02:15AM)
Well if There Not Made by Todd There FAKE!!! IE. Not made by Lassen!!! :)
Message: Posted by: warren (Feb 7, 2017 11:10AM)
So they are fakes then ....that explains it then I missed the post above mine oops :)
Message: Posted by: BanzaiMagic (Feb 7, 2017 03:17PM)
This from Todd's blog Posted on January 28, 2012:

[quote]Every time I check ebay there are Lassen fakes by the usual suspects. I see old Frank had to change his handle. No more Niceastuffa. Ha. [/quote]

If Todd Lassen says that Frank is selling fakes of his work - that is good enough for me to avoid buying from him. I suggest others do the same. There used to be a lot more on Todd's blog on Frank, but I guess Todd took the posts down.
Message: Posted by: elainevblaine (Feb 8, 2017 11:39AM)
"Unfortunately, he is at it again:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magicians-Magic-......9GhYlkzZ
Based upon past behavior, this is likely not made by Todd Lassen."

Here is his description from ebay.

"This Morgan Dollar Coin Set Was custom Made by Todd Lassen. The normal Morgan Dollar 3 Fly Coin set Shell that he makes (SAM SHELL) Normally fits over only one of the coins. This Shell fits onto all three coins and locks on all three, so you do not have to concern yourself with where the key coin is if you let the spectator look at the coins. When you get the coins back if you let the spectators examine the coins, just slide the Sam Shell which remains in your hand hidden over any one of the three coins that are given back to you and the shell locks onto to it. In addition all the coins lock onto the shell. These Are UNC (uncirculated) coins and are brilliant to watch while performing on stage. VERY FEW SETS WERE EVER MADE like this and took forever to get once ordered. The wait on these coins if you could get them if, if he even will make them anymore for you could be a very long time (months and months). Please note these are real Todd Lassen coins look closely at the fit and you will see, If you are a coin worker and know Todd Lassens work you know the tolerances are tight . This coin set in near perfect condition. You will not see another set like this on ebay promise. Nobody wants to sell them, and probably know one has a set like this.."

"VERY FEW SETS WERE EVER MADE like this and took forever to get once ordered."

This is the standard way these sets have been made since Lassen departed Kohler 15 years ago.

"Please note these are real Todd Lassen coins look closely at the fit and you will see, If you are a coin worker and know Todd Lassens work you know the tolerances are tight"

Look closely at the fit? Says the king of blurvision. How are you going to SEE the fit anyway? High level of retardation here.

"This coin set in near perfect condition."

Legally and literally, this means the coin set is not in perfect condition. It could be any range of unknown damage or wear.

"You will not see another set like this on ebay promise."

Yes, so buy one from Lassen, he sells them for $400, not $600, and the condition will be PERFECT, not near perfect.

Also, while considering turnaround time, consider if you get a gaff that doesn't perform correctly from this guy. Then consider his history of dealing with these situations. The most likely outcome, based on testimonies here at MC, is that you will be stuck with that gaff and you will have paid over $200 more than what the set sells for, new from the creator, just so you can supposedly get it right now. In other words, you've just wasted 600 smackers on something that you cannot use or return. And then you will be spending more money on blood pressure pills.
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Feb 9, 2017 07:07AM)
So where does this guy get the sets he sells? Never seems to run out.
Message: Posted by: BanzaiMagic (Feb 16, 2017 12:55PM)
[quote]On Nov 7, 2016, BanzaiMagic wrote:
I kept a copy of an old post I did in 2011 regarding Frank on a Magic Café thread that is now deleted. For background here it is:

[quote]Posted by: BanzaiMagic (Jun 7, 2011 2:51pm)

If there is any question as to whether Frank Virga/Frank Paris/Niceastuffa is the same person, a quick search on the internet answers the question (at least to my satisfaction):

http://www.therpf.com/f9/frank-virgas-knife-ebay-lying-about-48505/

The above site contains the following post from BlueMirageStudio [since changed to Luuke]:
"I'm posting this as a warning. The seller is not being honest. In fact he's downright lying.

He states it was a one of a kind item made for him. A lot of us know the history on this knife. Just a warning to stay away from the auction. It might be Frank himself still lying. The seller is niceastuff and he's in New York. Suprise, suprise.

In fact if you look at his selling history, you'll see he's into magic. Definately Frank."

For the very interesting backstory, see here:

http://www.jhyphen.com/miscellaneous/virga/virga.htm

Interesting guy.[/quote]

There is also this:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/news.admin.net-abuse.email/46c_1Jp5kfo [/quote]

He is at it again:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/162397044250?ul_noapp=true

I suspect that Frank was recently here on the Café with a post (now deleted) that criticized my letting other Magicians know about Frank's previous dealings - saying that it was not magicians helping magicians.

I disagree.
Message: Posted by: BanzaiMagic (Dec 31, 2017 02:27PM)
He’s at it again:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Todd-Lassen-Custom-Made-3-Fly-Morgan-Dollar-UNC-BU-Coin-Set/162824433832?hash=item25e917b0a8:g:7RIAAOSw3WxaHz0L

I wouldn’t spend my Christmas money on this.



Now, this one appears to be legit, but be careful dealing with Frank:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Todd-Lassen-Triple-Threat-Silver-Dollar-Coin-Set/162828502823?hash=item25e955c727:g:ueEAAOSwTO9Z7g1m

I doubt Frank has the skills to make a set of these himself, but if you buy it check everything carefully when you get it.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Jan 11, 2018 11:39AM)
Haha, over the years this guy must have been TL's best customer - he's sold so many items that's he's bought (?) from TL.

[quote]On Dec 31, 2017, BanzaiMagic wrote:
He’s at it again:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Todd-Lassen-Custom-Made-3-Fly-Morgan-Dollar-UNC-BU-Coin-Set/162824433832?hash=item25e917b0a8:g:7RIAAOSw3WxaHz0L

I wouldn’t spend my Christmas money on this.



Now, this one appears to be legit, but be careful dealing with Frank:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Todd-Lassen-Triple-Threat-Silver-Dollar-Coin-Set/162828502823?hash=item25e955c727:g:ueEAAOSwTO9Z7g1m

I doubt Frank has the skills to make a set of these himself, but if you buy it check everything carefully when you get it. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: BanzaiMagic (Jan 20, 2018 12:10AM)
The ones he doesn't make in his machine shop he buys on Ebay. TL is very aware of him and doesn't sell to him.


[quote]On Jan 11, 2018, Chessmann wrote:
Haha, over the years this guy must have been TL's best customer - he's sold so many items that's he's bought (?) from TL.

[quote]On Dec 31, 2017, BanzaiMagic wrote:
He’s at it again:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Todd-Lassen-Custom-Made-3-Fly-Morgan-Dollar-UNC-BU-Coin-Set/162824433832?hash=item25e917b0a8:g:7RIAAOSw3WxaHz0L

I wouldn’t spend my Christmas money on this.



Now, this one appears to be legit, but be careful dealing with Frank:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Todd-Lassen-Triple-Threat-Silver-Dollar-Coin-Set/162828502823?hash=item25e955c727:g:ueEAAOSwTO9Z7g1m

I doubt Frank has the skills to make a set of these himself, but if you buy it check everything carefully when you get it. [/quote] [/quote]
Message: Posted by: inigmntoya (May 27, 2019 08:34PM)
Looks like he's still at it?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Todd-Lassen-BU-Morgan-Dollar-Triple-Threat/163707282939
Message: Posted by: BanzaiMagic (May 27, 2019 10:37PM)
$800? Wow.

And it includes “an extra expanded replica shell. ... not shown”