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Topic: Bro. John Hamman's Two Card Trick
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Jun 15, 2011 11:23AM)
After reading the description again in Kaufmann's Book, The Card Magic of Bro. John Hamman, I decided to play with this and think it might be terriffic for civilians and magicicians, too!

Just curious as to whether any of you are using this in your card performances, and, if so, what your thoughts and suggestions are in regards to this trick......

Your input and feedback is appreciated..
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Jun 15, 2011 12:01PM)
Hamman's Two-Card Trick originally appeared in the very first year of APOCALYPSE (March, 1978) - over three decades ago! You might want to check my write-up. I taught it a my lectures for the same number of decades, and I perform teach it on Vol. 4 of my "Best Ever" DVD set. You might want to check 'em out. Best - Harry L.
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Jun 15, 2011 01:28PM)
It is a very good effect. Michael Skinner used it for many years. As magician fooler. I'm not sure unless one isn't very well versed in card magic. I think it would appeal to most that haven't seen it.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Jun 15, 2011 03:07PM)
I've always put it in the "killer" class.
Message: Posted by: Medifro (Jun 15, 2011 03:16PM)
[quote]
On 2011-06-15 12:23, Rainboguy wrote:
After reading the description again in Kaufmann's Book, The Card Magic of Bro. John Hamman, I decided to play with this and think it might be terriffic for civilians and magicicians, too!

Just curious as to whether any of you are using this in your card performances, and, if so, what your thoughts and suggestions are in regards to this trick......

Your input and feedback is appreciated..
[/quote]
I used it for a good while, not sure about fooling the magicians part but it does go very well with humans.
Message: Posted by: atucci (Jun 16, 2011 06:50AM)
There's a youtube clip of David Williamson performing his version at what appears to be some sort of convention somewhere in Asia.

It appears as if he was performing impromptu while surrounded by spectators & press(?) and had at least two different decks out and on the table. He is very subtle and gets into the effect in the middle of his set.
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Jun 16, 2011 09:09AM)
I'm with Harry about this being a "Killer"....

In typical Hamman-esque fashion, you lead the spectator down the rosy road, then WHAM......hit 'em over the head with a series of completely unexpected surpises, then hit 'em again with a knock-out ending.

GREAT trick, in my opinion.
Message: Posted by: Vlad_77 (Jun 16, 2011 09:24AM)
A word of caution that I think is appropriate here: Mr. Lorayne mentions that The Two Card Trick is something you need to do frequently or you will forget the handling (paraphrased from the Apocalypse write-up).

He is right. I have had to re-learn this effect at least three times. Mr. Lorayne wrote that Bro. John had to refresh his memory on the handling.

Precise reference: Hamman, Bro. John. "The Two Card Trick." in APOCALYPSE. Lorayne, Harry. v.1, n,3, March 1978, pp. 32-33. ("Blue" volume in the L&L hard bound set)

Ahimsa,
Vlad
Message: Posted by: Juble (Jun 16, 2011 02:16PM)
You are correct Vlad, I must be on my 4th time now!
Message: Posted by: Hybrid Hunter (Jun 18, 2011 09:56AM)
Does anyone have the youtube link of David Williamson performing the two card trick?
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Jun 18, 2011 10:15AM)
[quote]
On 2011-06-16 15:16, Juble wrote:
You are correct Vlad, I must be on my 4th time now!
[/quote]
Believe it or not, I'm probably nearing my twentieth.
Message: Posted by: Justin W (Jun 18, 2011 10:25AM)
Apparently, the clip was taken down due to copyright infringement claims by Yigal Mesika and Roy Dean Media [skeptical question mark]?
Message: Posted by: Erdnase27 (Jun 18, 2011 06:53PM)
I need to relearn this one again *grabbing the Hamman book of the shelf* :D
Message: Posted by: Vlad_77 (Jun 18, 2011 08:26PM)
[quote]
On 2011-06-18 19:53, MichielTummers wrote:
I need to relearn this one again *grabbing the Hamman book of the shelf* :D
[/quote]


Haha Michiel, you too?

BTW man, I am moving to Holland next year!!! To Rotterdam!! We have to get together. PM me when you get a chance.

Vlad
Message: Posted by: Vlad_77 (Jun 18, 2011 08:28PM)
I have NO idea why this effect is so hard to remember! :) I am telling you that if someone offered me right at this second EVERY book in Byron Walker's collection if I could explain the method, well, I would never have them. Yet I can remember effects with HUGE setups and tons of sleights.

I am truly convinced that Brother John Hamman, S.M. is looking down from heaven and having a good laugh at all of us ;)

Ahimsa,
Vlad
Message: Posted by: DomKabala (Jun 19, 2011 05:12AM)
I can recall this effect regularly today only because of an exhaustive study of it with a sessioning partner a while back. We both struggled but persisted and I even came up with an alternate methodology achieving the same results. A boon to learning this is to transcribe the directions into an outline form which my sessioning partner devised. After several sessions and persistant study and practice we both have "ingrained" this jewel into our subconscious...

It is an excellent effect that will enrich both you and the audience only if you study it's underlying principle instead of concentrating on memorizing the mechanics...

Cardamagically,
Dom :) ;)
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Jun 19, 2011 09:31AM)
Michiel: You might want to "grab" my original description of the routine in APOCALYPSE "off the shelf." H.
Message: Posted by: Erdnase27 (Jun 19, 2011 01:58PM)
[quote]
On 2011-06-19 10:31, Harry Lorayne wrote:
Michiel: You might want to "grab" my original description of the routine in APOCALYPSE "off the shelf." H.
[/quote]

@ harry

I did that in one continuous grabbing move, juggled both books while walking to the practice table, and had a blast reading both explanations (while flipping trough apocalypse to marvel at the other great stuff in it! :) ).
Message: Posted by: Erdnase27 (Jun 19, 2011 02:02PM)
[quote]
On 2011-06-18 21:26, Vlad_77 wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-06-18 19:53, MichielTummers wrote:
I need to relearn this one again *grabbing the Hamman book of the shelf* :D
[/quote]


Haha Michiel, you too?

BTW man, I am moving to Holland next year!!! To Rotterdam!! We have to get together. PM me when you get a chance.

Vlad
[/quote]

I pmd you! ;)
Message: Posted by: mota (Jun 21, 2011 12:29AM)
Here is a clip of someone doing this trick...

http://dailycardtrick.blogspot.com/2010/12/two-card-trick-by-bro-john-hamman.html
Message: Posted by: MagicT (Jun 21, 2011 01:10AM)
Has anyone done a Technicolor version of this trick?



Thanks,
Trini
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Jun 21, 2011 01:35AM)
Performed this for my girlfriend a few minutes ago.

Hahah she really really liked it.

I used the "push through the fist??" for the color change.
Message: Posted by: Roland Henning (Jun 21, 2011 05:19AM)
[quote]
On 2011-06-21 01:29, mota wrote:
Here is a clip of someone doing this trick...
[/quote]

someone ;)
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Jun 23, 2011 12:48PM)
That handling of The Two Card Trick was very nicely done by someone. even with the eye patch;)
Message: Posted by: TomKMagic (Feb 18, 2021 11:26PM)
Oooooold thread... but, I wanted to mention that [B]The Secrets of Brother John Hamman[/b] "The Two Card Trick" is one of my all time favorite routines. This is the version I first learned in 1996 when I bought the book. I fooled myself many times when first learning this, which helped for my fascination and believing in the effect. I modified the very beginning handling to for my preference (changed the order, so DL instead of TL, msg me if interested in the starting order), but I just love the effect and the way it plays to the audience. It's a quick color change, no fancy moves. And I almost always end with the Ace in the card box, which is something I learned from Karl Norman in 2002 when he did a completely different routine. I eventually figured out that I could incorporate the Ace ending in the box, and it flowed perfectly. Then, I typically go into "The Submarine Card"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWKXVhFaNb0 <-- me performing "The Two Card Trick" and other stuff overseas. It's a little tricky to perform for people that don't speak English as well, but the reaction is still typical and great.

There are many other routines I like in this book, but I did tend to steer away from many of the gimmicked/gaffed card routines.

Vlad mentions: Precise reference: Hamman, Bro. John. "The Two Card Trick." in APOCALYPSE. Lorayne, Harry. v.1, n,3, March 1978, pp. 32-33. Now, I will have to locate and buy this.


In 2020, I had learned of a non-gimmicked version (no extra card) that Jack Carpenter came up with (I'm sure there's others as well). Someone at the Magi-Fest showed me Jack's handling. I tried it and adapted it to the handling I use in the video above with a tweak to the wording and handling. It works well. I can do it with a borrowed deck, if I don't have my deck with me. The color change is stronger, but it still plays well with this handling.

Tom
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Feb 19, 2021 08:25AM)
If you go to harryloraynemagic.com and click on Videos or Performances - and scroll down - in one paragraph you'll see You Tube underlined. Click on that and a bunch of my performances from my "Best Ever" 4-vol DVD set come up. One of them is a performance of the two-Card trick. You might enjoy the other stuff at that site.
Message: Posted by: TomKMagic (Feb 19, 2021 11:26AM)
Thank you Harry. I had actually seen your performance on it via TMF posting about The Two Card Trick. The YouTube video was posted there.
A few years ago, I watched all of the performance you have on your YouTube channel.

In the video on YouTube, you specifically state that it is a Brother John Hamman idea. This is why I'm asking.

On TMF, you mentioned that you thought you had published The Two Card Trick first. Do you recall where you would have published this prior? The Secrets of Brother John Hamman that I have was published 1989, and it says Brother John had performed it since 1972 and that it appeared in Apocalypse Vol 1, No 3 in 1978, but if you have something that is published prior to this, I would love to find it and even purchase it.

Do you mean that Brother John created it in 1972, then you published it in Apocalypse in 1978, then he published it in his book in 1989?
Either way, I already know this routine from when I bought the book in 1996, but I would like to know and learn the original origin or how this trick was inspired.

I appreciate your time and input.
I had also sent you and Rudy a private message on TMF, but I forgot to put a subject line. In that message, I was asking about the routine you have in Trend Setters called "Melt Through" and The Submarine Card. If you get a chance, can you please read that message?

Thank you!

Tom
Message: Posted by: Ron Giesecke (Feb 19, 2021 01:07PM)
I learned the "Status Quo Shuffle" off one of Harry's tapes many years ago. Served me better than a million other controls.
Message: Posted by: Ed Oschmann (Feb 19, 2021 01:13PM)
I feel like I'm alone in this opinion, but I find the effect very confusing. The visuals are cool, but I don't know how to make heads or tails of what the effect is supposed to be.
Message: Posted by: Tortuga (Feb 19, 2021 01:54PM)
[quote]On Feb 19, 2021, Ed Oschmann wrote:
I feel like I'm alone in this opinion, but I find the effect very confusing. The visuals are cool, but I don't know how to make heads or tails of what the effect is supposed to be. [/quote]

No, you've got company.
Message: Posted by: Mike Powers (Feb 19, 2021 05:35PM)
I'm with Ed. I've always felt that the effect is confusing. Ask a spectator to tell you what happened in the Two Card Trick.

If you asked about an ACR, they'd have no trouble saying "You put my signed card in the middle and it kept coming to the top."

Mike
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Feb 19, 2021 06:56PM)
[quote]On Feb 19, 2021, Mike Powers wrote:
I'm with Ed. I've always felt that the effect is confusing. Ask a spectator to tell you what happened in the Two Card Trick.

If you asked about an ACR, they'd have no trouble saying "You put my signed card in the middle and it kept coming to the top."

Mike [/quote]
Which is good, but not as good as, "Hamman just fried me"
Layman aren't aware of our dogma that they should be able to sum it up in one sentence.
Sometimes they are just plain fooled. Bro. John knew this. If the spectator has a magical experience, it doesn't necessarily have to fall into a neat and tidy category that satisfies our ideas about theory.
All due respect gents.
Message: Posted by: Tortuga (Feb 19, 2021 07:58PM)
[quote]On Feb 19, 2021, magicfish wrote:
[quote]On Feb 19, 2021, Mike Powers wrote:
I'm with Ed. I've always felt that the effect is confusing. Ask a spectator to tell you what happened in the Two Card Trick.

If you asked about an ACR, they'd have no trouble saying "You put my signed card in the middle and it kept coming to the top."

Mike [/quote]
Which is good, but not as good as, "Hamman just fried me"
Layman aren't aware of our dogma that they should be able to sum it up in one sentence.
Sometimes they are just plain fooled. Bro. John knew this. If the spectator has a magical experience, it doesn't necessarily have to fall into a neat and tidy category that satisfies our ideas about theory.
All due respect gents. [/quote]

I think this is just a clear example of one effect that defies Vernon's admonition. I'm not saying it isn't fooling and I'm not saying it isn't entertaining. But it does have a sense of the illogical to it. And yes, it is difficult to describe the effect, even for magicians.

People need to embrace the "and". Something can be illogical AND entertaining at the same time. This trick clearly shows that.
Message: Posted by: Maddened (Feb 19, 2021 08:29PM)
[quote]On Feb 19, 2021, Mike Powers wrote:
I'm with Ed. I've always felt that the effect is confusing. Ask a spectator to tell you what happened in the Two Card Trick.

If you asked about an ACR, they'd have no trouble saying "You put my signed card in the middle and it kept coming to the top."

Mike [/quote]

Let me try, in the most layperson manner possible. "So there's like two cards right? I was asked to choose one of them and I picked the Ace, which was then actually became a blue card... because before that it was red, so like huh what happened?? and then the other card, I think it was a Queen or King... Queen yes... anyway it became blue also even though it was red. I mean not the card but the back of the card. So they like change colours back and forth, and then the Ace turns out to also be a Queen, because like there was no Ace actually. And one was red and one was blue, so they were both like Queens, but one was read and one was blue, so there was no Ace? Hm? Yes I chose the Ace, so yes there was an Ace, but then afterwards it change colour the Ace became a Queen also. No I definitely saw the Ace. There was an Ace! Um... yea maybe the Ace was a Queen, but then where did the Ace gone? He took it out and THEN it changed colours..."

I know it sounds like a parody or satire but I'm pretty sure that would be how someone would retell the trick, before promptly being given a "Ohhhhkay. Sure thing. Sounds cool... You wanna go grab lunch?"
Message: Posted by: Nikodemus (Feb 19, 2021 08:41PM)
"The magician showed two cards; the back of one changed to a different colour; then its face changed to be the same as the other card."
I think that's a reasonable one-sentence description
:)

I don't like it for a different reason. I think the second revelation gives away the method. One of the cards never was the card they thought it was. They may not know exactly how it was done - but enough to undermine any sense of impossibility.
Message: Posted by: Mike Powers (Feb 19, 2021 08:59PM)
I think it was Vernon who said "Confusion isn't magic."

M
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Feb 20, 2021 08:24AM)
Let's see if my statement can become as well known as Vernon's. Simple: IF THE EFFEC DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU, DOESN'T ENTERETAIN YOUR AUDIENCES - DON'T DO IT!!!!
Message: Posted by: Tortuga (Feb 20, 2021 08:38AM)
[quote]On Feb 20, 2021, Harry Lorayne wrote:
Let's see if my statement can become as well known as Vernon's. Simple: IF THE EFFEC DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU, DOESN'T ENTERETAIN YOUR AUDIENCES - DON'T DO IT!!!! [/quote]

Perfect! Nothing more can be said.
Message: Posted by: Mike Powers (Feb 20, 2021 11:37AM)
I totally agree Harry.

M
Message: Posted by: TomKMagic (Feb 20, 2021 11:42AM)
Me too Harry.

And to all, thank you for your input and insight.
I do appreciate it and value the brainstorming of ideas, concepts, and methods with you guys.
Especially in-person sessions.

Tom
Message: Posted by: martyjacobs (Feb 27, 2021 10:25AM)
This thread prompted me to look at this trick again to see if I liked it. It has a playful, puzzle-like quality that appeals to me; I like it. However, I think this trick will work best when performing for analytical thinkers because it is illogical.

Here's a video of Harry performing the trick:

[youtube]oZkq1YNRjv8[/youtube]

Tom, I also like the way you perform it, too:

[youtube]QWKXVhFaNb0[/youtube]

I'd sell the trick as the double transformation (front and back) of two playing cards. I'd say something like, "***, I've ruined another deck!" after revealing the duplicate. Seeing two cards with the same suit and value is shocking for a lay audience; as magicians, I think we forget this.

Reproducing the Ace suggests you were using three cards all along. I would not do this, but it seems to work well for you, Tom.

Marty