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Topic: Murder by magic bu cris Johnson
Message: Posted by: magicodine (Jul 9, 2011 05:51AM)
Hello,
Cris Johnson is selling is themes programme for corporate events Murder by Magic. Has anyone seen it, or has anyone bought it already?
It's a lot of money to invest but it would be well worth it if the programme were indeed that good.
Any rewiev, advice or warning?

here's the description:

+++++++++++++


I’ll let you in on a secret: magicians LOVE the corporate market.

Okay, maybe it’s not much of a secret after all, but it’s easy to see why the corporate market is so appealing to magicians. Here are just a few reasons:

• The fees can be really good

• Because you’re performing for adults, your themes, plots and scripting can be much more sophisticated than for kids’ shows, meaning a more rewarding experience for you, the performer!

• Many corporate banquet / convention events are large affairs, enabling aspiring stage magicians to haul out their really neat effects

• Unlike some markets, corporate groups have events all year long!

• The fees can be REALLY good

• Corporate magic shows offer performers a great deal of opportunity for creativity

Let’s talk about that last point for an instant: creativity. I’ve been performing corporate magic programs for audiences all across North America for the last 15 years and I can assure you that many corporate groups have seen it all. I’ve heard audiences say, “Oh, the magician we had last year did that” far too many times in recent years. True, classics in magic and mentalism are classics for a reason, but presentation is key…more on this later.

There are a couple of solutions to this.

First, the enterprising magician can create completely new effects with totally original scripting. In an ideal world, this is a great solution, but creating an entire show from scratch with effects that NO ONE has ever seen before is quite a challenge!

The second solution is to take great effects that are proven audience-pleasers and structure them into the framework of an incredibly unique script that alters the audiences’ perceptions of what they are seeing from a simple ‘magic show’ to live theater!

I’m Cris Johnson, writer of the weekly Hocus Pocus Trick Talk blog and while I’ve made it clear that school programs are my favorite shows for the last decade, I’ve been doing corporate shows consistently even longer. Also, in the USA, I can count on roughly 7-8 months of solid work from the school market (with summer months, spring break, holidays and especially weekends all eating into my potential booking calendar)…leaving roughly 4 months out of the year that I need to fill. Happily, many corporate events take place on weekends, when school is not in session!

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The Power Of Themed Programs
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If you’ve followed the teachings of Max Maven, Eugene Burger and other wonderful magic philosophers, you already know the power of framing your effects, that is, giving an individual effect a ‘hook’ or reason for being, something other than mere exposition: “Now I’m going to cut the rope…Now I will hold the ends of the rope…” Ugh!

Framing individual effects is highly effective in terms of increasing the involvement of your audience. Taking this idea to the next level, the professional performer can appreciate the value of adding a thematic element to the entire show (in the corporate world, most clients expect a 30, 45 or 60 minute performance for a typical “after dinner” event.).

In his “Nothing” DVDs, Max Maven talked extensively about a unifying theme to a series of effects that built upon each other. Max’s theme for the “Nothing” show was more subtle. In my case, I’ve structured my banquet corporate show around an incredibly commercial theme…

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Introducing…Murder By Magic!
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If you’re unfamiliar with the concept of a ‘murder mystery,’ I’ll give you the thumbnail description: Typically, a group of 3 to 6 improvisational actors assume certain roles in an after-dinner event and they incorporate the audience in ways to help move the plot along, discover clues, and eventually find out, literally, ‘whodunit!’ Hotels and resorts often turn the concept into an entire weekend of interactive entertainment.

I LOVED the idea and eventually set about crafting a one-man murder mystery combined with magic, mentalism, comedy and music!

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The Plot
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In “Murder By Magic,” there is a murder, an investigation, the revelation of the murderer and most surprisingly, a fantastic ‘plot twist’ that NO ONE will see coming! The show is very funny, interactive and unique. The way volunteers are selected is different and even the show introduction itself sets the mood instantly and gets big laughs.

Attendees at the show wind up assuming different rols, such as a chief of police, the coroner, and even the murderer!

Critical KEY points:

• No “acting” is required of ANY of the guests

• There is NO “pre-show” of ANY kind in my version of the show

• You will NOT need to “set anything up” with ANYBODY before the show starts. (In other words, there’s no “Okay, I want you to play along…” NONE of that!)

• You can walk in ‘cold’ and do this for any audience, even if the audience has NO idea of what kind of performance they are going to see

• There is NO pre-show of ANY kind in my version of the show

• There is no “blood” or ANYTHING offensive in the show. (Corporate event planners DEMAND clean, appropriate shows!!)

• There are no “costumes” for anyone to wear in my version of the show

• When you start the show, even YOU do not know who the murderer will be! (This is FUN!!!!)

• By the way, there is NO pre-show or “meeting with anyone to set up the plot or characters of the show” beforehand. (Just in case I was unclear!) There IS physically setting up the show equipment for the performance of course, but no setting anything up with your client, attendees, nothing!

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Why This Show ROCKS
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The advantage of this is that unlike a traditional magic or mentalism show, there is an actual STORY going on, one the audience can easily follow. Event planners who hire me INSTANTLY see the value of such a program and many of them hire me even after saying, “We had a magician last year and we don’t want to see another magic show.”

I’ll even let you in on a BIG secret: For several years, I’ve done Stage Hypnosis Shows (VERY popular with HR directors and meeting planners) for corporate clients and quite frankly, I don’t enjoy them because most of my corporate clients’ attendees at the shows are filled with people who do NOT want to be hypnotized, making my job difficult…so when talking with a prospective client, I then explain why “Murder By Magic” is such a better idea…and over 90% of clients inquiring about a hypnosis show make the switch to booking “Murder By Magic” instead…even if they already hired a magician last year!

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The Challenges of a One-Man Murder Mystery
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Since the concept of a one-man murder mystery was so unique, there were several challenges I had to solve to make the concept work in a corporate environment. The challenges included:

• How could I convey the plot while keeping ‘plot exposition’ to a minimum (in many instances, corporate event attendees have the same short attention span as kids!)

• Who was going to be the murderer?

• Who was going to be the victim?

• How would magic and mentalism help propel the plot?

• How interactive could it be?

• What ‘roles’ could audience members fill…WITHOUT acting on their part?

• What would MY role or ‘character’ be?

• How would I sell this to clients?

• How could I incorporate music into the show?

• What will the ‘look’ of the show be in terms of staging?

• How could I incorporate humor into the program?

• What effects would work the best in terms of the show structure?

• How could I make this work for groups of 20 or groups of 500?

Truthfully, there were a LOT of other considerations, but those were the ‘biggies!’ After almost three years of tweaking, scripting, hand-wringing and more, I’m proud to say that “Murder By Magic” truly is THE Ultimate Corporate Show!

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All The Hard Work Is Done For You
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I’ve taken all of my hard work, experimentation and more and put everything into several easy-to-use components to get you up and running in no time. Also, once you understand the workings of the show, it can be easily adapted to colleges and other venues. It was designed specifically for the corporate market and since that market is so challenging (venues, audience sizes, demographics and much more means the show HAS to be flexible to accommodate all the weird conditions you’ll encounter!)

COMPONENT #1: THE SCRIPT BOOK

I’ve transcribed every word of the script into the script manual. You get every joke, music suggestion and more to understand how the plot moves along. I will reveal my thoughts behind why I included certain lines of scripting, why I selected the effects that I did and much more.

I will also break down the structure of the script, why I went into certain directions, why the structure works, and just how easily you can alter the effects selection to fit into the framework of the show.

Additionally, I will include alternate effects that I initially used along with notes about why they are no longer in the show and more. In some cases, effects were pulled because they did not fit into the framework of the script, fit my character or fit the overall ‘look’ of the show and other times, I pulled an effect out simply because I found something else I liked better!

This means I will include ALL the effects I considered and/or tried for “Murder By Magic.” In most cases, these are marketed effects (meaning I cannot reveal the secrets) but once you understand what the “tie in” is to a certain effect, I will also give you alternate effects that you can slip into that spot in the show.
Quite frankly, I wound up developing different versions of “Murder By Magic” for small groups in people’s homes, larger versions for banquets of several hundred people and even a simple version that I can easily carry on a plane. There’s a “Murder By Magic” that uses LARGE effects, all the way down to a version that fits in a briefcase!

I will also tip the workings of a CUSTOM electronic prop I had built for me by magic builder/genius Nick Wenger, giving you the option of contacting Nick for one of your own!! It ain’t cheap, but it’s REALLY cool. (Of course, I also include the source for an alternate effect that you can slip in your pocket, which costs pennies, too.)


COMPONENT #2: THE SECRETS BOOK

As I mentioned earlier, most of the effects in “Murder By Magic” are either marketed effects or taught in respected books and/or DVDs. However, in two of the cases, I developed my own effects for the show including my version of a mentalism classic that I adapted specifically for this program and serves as the CLIMAX of the entire show as I frame it as an unforeseen major ‘plot twist’ in the narrative of the story!
Both of these effects together account for a total running time of 15 minutes…meaning a full 25% of the show is INSTANTLY yours.

I’ll tip the workings of BOTH here in this component. I’ll include copies of the artwork, why each works so well, and of course suggestions for alternate effects/handlings if you don’t like mine. (By the way, both pack flat and fit comfortably in a briefcase.)

COMPONENT #3: MARKETING

Of course, none of this is worth much if you don’t know how to sell it. In this third manual, I tip several marketing tools. You’ll receive the following:

• A copy of my own full-color flier you can include in a physical promotional package when you pitch your services to prospective buyers. Obviously, MY name won’t work for you, but you can benefit from my design!

• Phone sales secrets! What I say, how I phrase things, my overall approach and more. I’ll tip some sneaky Neuro-Linguistic Programming kinds of strategies to increase sales.

• A sneaky, incredibly EASY ‘add-on’ you can include in your proposal that essentially DOUBLES the perceived value of the show…best of all, I GUARANTEE you already have this ‘secret weapon’ right now…and it fits in your pocket!

• A handy ‘cut-n-paste’ email you can send to clients who request info via email. This email is L-O-O-N-N-G and very descriptive and sells the show very well. Many times, after reading this email, a client will call me and simply say, “How do we make out the check?” (I’m DEAD serious!)

• An advertising flier you can model and send to clients. (In some cases, a corporate client may be hosting an event in which they invite their own clients and they’ll be using the entertainment as a ‘draw’ to increase attendance. You’ll receive my full-color flier…along with my analysis of why it works so well.

• Detailed analysis of why all this stuff rocks!

COMPONENT #4: UNLIMITED SUPPORT

I know that over the years when I’ve bought a trick, prop or show-in-a-box such as this, I always have questions. In this case, because this product is so complex (a complete 50-60 minute show with marketing components), I fully expect you to have some questions. Additionally, this is truly “my baby” in terms of themed shows. Over the last 15 years, I’ve completely scripted and created 16 other theme shows for various markets and age groups and I feel this is the BEST script I’ve ever written.
All of this means that if anyone other than me is going to perform it, I want it done well! After purchasing the package, feel free to email me as many times as you like – no limits. Questions about how to incorporate a pet effect of yours? Just ask. Questions about marketing? Ditto.

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“Okay, Cris, This Sounds GREAT! How Much?”
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I’ve wrestled for years whether or not to ever release this. It’s such a unique concept for a one-man magic show that I really wanted to keep it for myself. Unfortunately, with the popularity of Youtube, the Internet in general and the less-than-honest- tendencies of some performers (I’ve had theme shows ripped off before. I know who did it and I’m still fighting some people on it), I decided that at least I want credit for this, so I’ve decided to let my baby go.

But what to charge…

On average, I earn about $1850 for a one hour performance of “Murder By Magic.” I’ve occasionally done shows in the $800 range 30 minutes or so away from my house for small groups of people. Quite often, I book the show for the healthy fee of $2495.

In fact, I recently booked the “Murder By Magic” show for the fee of $2495…and then a week later, someone from another company in the same city called me to tell me they had heard about the show from the first company…he then also booked it for the same fee!

Now I know that there are corporate magicians and mentalists out there who command a LOT more than that for a one hour show in the corporate market, but despite performing 250 shows per year (many of them in the corporate market), I have not fully immersed myself into the corporate market.

What this means is any corporate specialists out there can certainly use their skills to make a helluva lot more for one show than I currently do!

Because I don’t want everyone doing this show, I was going to charge a fee of $4995 and not include any marketing materials or support. I then decided to cut that in half, to $2495, because I could then in the advertising I could realistically say that the fee of the package could be recovered in ONE performance, as I have done several times.

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But You’re Not Going To Pay That Amount!
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After talking about it for a while with a few people in the business whom I trust, I finally settled upon a fee of $995, which is a steal when you see the reactions this program gets.

Let’s face it – many of us pay a LOT more than $995 for a single effect, and that single effect may run 30 seconds to 5 minutes in actual live performance time. For the same fee, I’m handing you a complete 50-60 show along with actual performance effects (with a total running time of 15 minutes or more), marketing materials and support to maximize the value of your investment.

Imagine yourself, making a ton of money in the corporate market…people smiling, laughing and applauding…and never having to worry about hearing, “Oh, we saw a magician just like you last year.”

For this investment, you will be forever perceived on a higher level by your clients because you won’t just be presenting a ‘magic show’…you’ll be delivered a comedic, interactive theatrical experience…the Ultimate Corporate Show!

Regular Price: $995.00

These will be ready to ship by August 11 (if not sooner) so as a pre-release special, you can take $200 off of this making your investment just $795.00…but only until August 11, 2011
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jul 9, 2011 06:23AM)
This is not a lot of money, as a good Trade Show magician make over $2400 a week. Multiply that type 20 for a year and you have more then paid for the course.

If it does what the ad says, run, do not pass go, get your credit card out and don't look back.

This all depends if this is the kind of field you want to work in. Traveling all over the USA to work for a few days a week. Constantly on planes traveling. Working 10 hours a day or more with only 3 short breaks. Entertaining the business clients in the evening at dinners you pay for to keep your clients.

This is the big league and you have to act like an adult and dress the part of a business expert. Conduct yourself as a person with the highest morals and the most respected person in business.

Are you ready to sell, sell, sell yourself and your services 8 hours a day. Most of the booking are made a year in advance. Can you wait a year to start working and see any income.

If you say yes, then send in your cash and take advantage of saving $200.00. Remember, the course will only give you the tools, you have to actually act and do the work.
Message: Posted by: JJJustice (Aug 5, 2011 08:00PM)
There is no exaggerated hype... Chris delivers, period. I will perform my version of this show, for the first time, on 10 SEP - and it has sold out, all but paying for the program the first time out.. II can tell you this: It would have taken me a year to come up with this type of "soup to nuts" program - Script, effects, flow, etc... In the end, THAT is what I paid for. That said, if you're expecting an out of the box show, this isn't for you. To perform as he has it scripted will require a considerable monetary investment. The good news is - much to his credit, Chris lists "alternate effects" that are much more economical, if you' re on a tight budget. His marketing tips are top notch as well. I'm torn... I can do nothing but recommend it highly, still and yet, I don't want too many people to be out there performing this.
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (Aug 5, 2011 10:44PM)
Interesting first post....
Message: Posted by: JJJustice (Aug 6, 2011 09:17AM)
LOL... I suppose so. Hadn't occurred to me until your post. I guess I've just been shy about stating any opinions because I'm relatively new to magic (only since May of 2010). My prestidigitation skills absolutely suck, but there is some WONDERFUL stuff out there for people who dare just get out and perform. I think I own everything Bill Abbott offers, and have performed them to great effect... Except maybe Octopus - it still makes me nervous. Anyway, The effects recommend in Murder by Magic are right up my alley (though I've substituted some). I had a few disastrous shows, but hey... Live and learn.
To the comment regarding it being only for trade shows and corporate events: here's what I've done... I went to a few local wine shops and bars, and found a great little wine shop that had a nice parlor in the back, capable of seating over 50 people. I gave them a "Comedy Magic" show for free, with the agreement that I'd get the venue for as long as I could pack them in... So far, 4 sell outs - 2 Comedy/2 Mentalism. As I said, 10 SEP is the first Murder by Magic. It's a win win... I get ticket sales and they get to sell a lot more wine than they would on a normal Sat night. My next step will be ti contact the local community theater company and offer the show for the times in between their plays ( they have one once a quarter). When they don't have a play going, a very nice Theater for Performing Arts remains empty - a perfect target. Anyway, my point is: Just go for it, all you magicians out there... My brother - a brilliant magician named Charlie Justice (creator of Prohibition... which, by the way, is an effect even I can do..and highly recommend), anyway, he once commented to me that I don't know enough yet to know any better what shouldn't work... I'll take it, I guess.
Sorry bout rambling on, but hey... There's only four posts on this thread.
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Aug 6, 2011 09:18AM)
Call me a cynic, but whenever I see posts like this it makes me wonder why, if they have the "secret," are they:

1) Showing everyone else how to do this and creating competition, taking bread off their own table (I know, he doesn't wanna go beyond 30 minutes from home. Right.),

and

2) Not just out doing these things!

If I am making a GREAT living doing corporate shows, why bother taking all the time to write a course and selling it for a relative pittance compared to the GREAT money I am making doing corporate shows?

I could be wrong (I often am) but posts like this make me stop and think.

As a side note, this is different than marketing a trick or a library show or something like that. This is pretty much promising loads of money and wealth.

wmhegbli, just curious: You gave a lot of advice here. What is your experience in the "big league"?
Message: Posted by: JJJustice (Aug 6, 2011 09:53AM)
Hey Starrpower. I must admit that the same thought crossed my mind, but then I figured: hey, what's the difference between inventing a trick and selling it, and what Chris has done. While I have not yet spoken with him personally, I feel I've got a good sense of his character from all I've read. I did as much "research" as I could before this kind of investment. I truly believe that he believes that "a rising tide lefts all ships". In his marketing section, Chris makes no bones about encouraging you to use the "Murder by Magic" name, literature, etc. I think it's brilliant - getting his creation out there exponentially can only help his business. Anyway, those are my thoughts... I respect the guy... It gives me hope: I'll probably never invent a trick, but I could see myself writing a "theatrical magic show" someday.
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Aug 6, 2011 11:09AM)
I don't know him or his method as outlined here, so this in not really directed at him. I was just posting my initial reaction to this type of thing. Like I said, I could be wrong ... that's just what passes through my mind.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 6, 2011 11:53AM)
Yea then when followed up with a persons first 3 posts such as they are it really has an aroma doesn't it?

Oh and how could it have "not occured" to you that you have never written a post before? That does not help the aroma at all I must say. And for someone who feels the need to mention you have not spoken to him personally... oh never mind. I guess I am even more cynical than starrpower.

Great now I start looking at the numbers. 250 shows a year, is at least 5 a week. At $1,500 a show five times a week? Come on. PLUS in his spare time has all the time in the world aparantly to write this up? The guy is clearing well over 500k a year and is going to sell this to everyone just because he is nice? He has all that money and does all those shows and has all this time on his hands to get this out there? (Oh plus he does other work aparantly!)

I guess someone must have helped him with it.

The thing I don't like is lets even say all that is 100% true. I concede the point. This show will not book 250 shows a year all by itself. You can learn this show, spend all the money in the world on it and you still have the hurdle of how do you book it? I have never been a fan of these Ralph Kramden get rich quick schemes. They always leave me cold after you think about the claims for just five minutes.
Message: Posted by: JJJustice (Aug 6, 2011 04:43PM)
For dannydoyle... Wow. I'm sorry you feel that way. I concede that I must be coming across as some sort of shill for Chris. Perhaps a little background ( verifiable) on me would help: I retired from the Marine Corps after over 22 years, from the U.S.Marine Corps. I was. Cobra Attack helicopter pilot. I currently work (real job) as a civilian contractor at U.S.Army Flight School, in Fort Rucker, Alabama. I am the Assistant Director for the Advanced Division (we're the ones who teach Army Aviators how to fly on Instruments... In the clouds) you can go to our website at ursrucker.com and look me up under the Advanced Division link - James Justice is my name. I'm not a full-time professional magician.. It's just a passion I began just over a year ago. As I said, I don't know Chris at all, but can tell you this: I emailed him a question ( seeking advice on a how to incorporate a new effect into the script) just after my last post today... Event though he was "45 minutes from going to a show to perform", he emailed me right back with his thoughts - that says a lot to me... My own wife probably can't talk to me 45 minutes before a show - I'm that much of a basket case. As for the 250 shows a year... I'm not sure where you came up with that number, but, hey... Just go toChris' website and look at his schedule.. The man stays busy. Yes, in the end, it is up to the individual to put in the work - practice and marketing - to make it work for you. This program gives you the Tools... You have to implement them. Again, I never felt "qualified" to post an opinion before... If Magiccafe tracked time on the site, you'd see I spend a lot of time on it... Learning. With this, however, I can speak... Because I did purchase it. I'm a HUGE believer in not performing anything I have not paid for - though I don't know them personally, Eugene Burger and Bill Abbott can attest to that. Anyway, I hope this clarifies a little for you. I think you'll see many more postings from me in the future... I've bought a lot of stuff... Much to my wife's dismay... I'm sure you remember what it was like when you first got into it. Being "eternal oder". Have a great and magical day.
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Aug 6, 2011 08:57PM)
Well, there's something you don't see every day. You gotta give JJ his due for laying himself out on the line like that.

Not only that, I had a good laugh at the "Ralph Kramden" reference.
Message: Posted by: JJJustice (Aug 6, 2011 09:53PM)
God Bless you. Maybe my bro was right. I may not know better. I too got a laugh re: Ralph Kramden I'm glad to be entering this " community".
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 7, 2011 01:28AM)
Come across as a shill? What ever would make you think you seem like that?

So just how busy is this program making you?
Message: Posted by: charliecheckers (Aug 7, 2011 01:57AM)
Ralph Kramden rocks. Perhaps Chris will go on television with his buddy Norton to promote his "Handy Housewife Helper" er, I mean " Murder by Magic". Honestly, though, I am split on this. If I chose to invest in the offering, I would do so knowing that it is just one tool I would have added. As JJ Justice points out it is like buying a new trick someone is selling. It helps, but does not point ones career in an entirely new path. Perhaps this is why those with more experience seem more hesitant than those newer to the business of magic. I see potential with this program greatly assisting me in entering into a new market (adults), but not corporate events (I have a way to go for that) . Those already doing corporate events, probably have established themselves beyond benefitting greatly from this. I will wait until I see more posts and investigate otherwise, further.
Message: Posted by: JJJustice (Aug 7, 2011 08:13AM)
As I mentioned earlier, I have not yet performed it... I may be new, but I'm not a fool... There are over 50 pages of script and dialogue to memorize and or change to suit me. I do know that what Chris wrote struck a chord: my show had been a series of dis-jointed tricks- one after another, with no common theme binding them together... MbM provides that - dialogue, flow, tie ins, even music recommendations; why they were chosen (effects and music) and how they tie in to the overall story. In short, he's taken some magic effects and turned it into a play with magic. Surely you can concede how many adults who would be hesitant to go see or hire "just another magician" would see the entertainment value in such a program. He has obviously been successful with it, so I figured why not? My plan is to invite the Director of the Community Theater, the Manager of the Army Base Officer's Club (they often have Comedians do shows in a 200+ person, multiple-level ballroom), and an entertainment reporter from local media to the 10 SEP event (this is a small, country community, so there really is nothing like this for several hundred miles) Then I try to sell it. Like I said, this isn't a "full time" gig for me, but I do have goals to succeed at it. Might I find that, charliecheckers is right, and I'm just a new bee who got suckered in? Time will tell...If it rocks, one thing Chris promises will have come to pass: It will set me apart from the other magicians in this area ( fortunately, it's a small city, so there aren't many) I'll keep you all posted as to how the show goes.
Message: Posted by: charliecheckers (Aug 7, 2011 08:44AM)
JJ - I want to be clear about my post. I was having a little fun up front, but my reference about Norton was not aimed at you in any way. My point was that magicians who are newer have less developed shows in terms of having a theme, as well as a target audience for their performance. Therefore what they have to gain is greater than someone who has developed these to a greater extent. Someone with a well developed show for adult audiences is likely to not be viewed as "another magician" with or without this Murder by Magic. It may still be of interest to some experienced performers who like to experiment with what has worked for others. The part of Murder by Magic promotion that "struck a cord" with me is the marketing description where one who buys this is booking shows with corporate clients in the thousands of dollars and becoming super wealthy by using the show. That's simply not going to happen. It takes much more than a unknown performer to purchase this and then be booking shows as he describes with hard to book clients. Performers who are already in those leagues know how to "hook" these clients. So my point was if you purchase it with modest expectations of what it will bring you financially, it may be of interest.
Message: Posted by: JJJustice (Aug 7, 2011 11:54AM)
Charliecheckers... No worries - no offense taken at all. I'm enjoying this discussion. You make some very valid points. As I said, only time will tell. One thing I think I have going for me is the fact that this is not my sole means of support... Not even my primary occupation. I think it gives me some "freedom" to experiment and take some more chances. That I'm blessed enough for that to be the case is certainly not lost on me. My "gigs" have all been self-generated through "cold calling" or referals through word of mouth... I will get a website up soon, and start some marketing, but the shows have helped steepen the learning curve... Again, thanks for the post - but I didn't take your original post wrong. On that note: I, too, meant absolutely NO offense by " another magician". ANYONE who dares put him or herself out there to perform has my utmost respect and undying admiration - All of you. I mean that sincerely.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 7, 2011 04:17PM)
Yea see the problem is that you don't really state that during your initial exuberance now do you? You never mention being so new, you never mention that if you don't make money it doesn't matter. None of that. But you can't wait to tell everyone how it sold out the first time you tried it and made all your money back and yada yada yada.

You talk about his marketing tips being top notch, yet this is not how you manage to make a living so how exactly does this square?

Certainly you see where a cyncal mind will sort of wonder about it.
Message: Posted by: JJJustice (Aug 7, 2011 05:53PM)
Dannydoyle: Dude...wow... Yes, I am exhuberant. You've been a member here since 2005, so I assume it is about the time you started magic? Don't you remember your initial excitement? You say that I "never mention being so new"... I direct you to my SECOND EVER POSTING, wherein I wrote: "...I guess I've just been shy about stating any opinions because I'm relatively new to magic (only since May of 2010). My prestidigitation skills absolutely suck, but there is some WONDERFUL stuff out there for people who dare just get out and perform."
The first posting on this thread asked a simple question: "Has anyone seen it? Has anyone bought it?" I've done BOTH, so I answered. Is that not what this forum is all about? I remind you of the salient points in my answer: "...It would have taken me a year to come up with this type of "soup to nuts" program - Script, effects, flow, etc... In the end, THAT is what I paid for. That said, if you're expecting an out of the box show, this isn't for you. To perform as he has it scripted will require a considerable monetary investment. The good news is - much to his credit, Chris lists "alternate effects" that are much more economical, if you' re on a tight budget. His marketing tips are top notch as well.
Now, maybe this is how people on this site become so cynical, because, for the life of me, I cannot understand what, about my first posting, has generated such hate. Anyway, as I was an Attack Helicopter Pilot, let's "shoot down" your other points:
First: I have done 4 shows (2 comedy / 2 mentalism) at this particular venue - a venue for which I "pound the pavement", went out and found, did a pro-bono show to convince them to allow me to do more shows, and booked. Showing the owner that this was a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SHOW (USING CHRIS' MARKETING MATERIALS) is what convinced her to give me the venue, yet again, for a couple more. (I pay nothing for the use of the venue - She makes money off the liquor sales and I get the ticket gate)... let's get to THAT. 50 people, at $15.00 per ticket is $750... I paid $795 for the program so, yes, I think that qualifies as "...all but paying for itself...".
That I spent endless 24/7 days, over the course of 22 years, in the Desert, in the Jungle, at SEA and now still work a full time job in service of my Country, and that it is THAT which allows me some freedom to begin exploring another career is not something for which I will apologize. Nor is it something relevant to the initial post. OF COURSE IT MATTERS if I don't at least get the return on my investment back! The only reason I "laid myself out there" was so that YOU would be assuaged that I was not part of Chris Johnson's staff or something. I won't hide behind aliases. If I've got an opinion, I'll state it and stand behind it. I now see how pointless that was, and that there is nothing I can say. I now understand starrpower's comment of ..."there's something you don't see every day."
I've said my peace. I believe I HONESTLY answered Magicodine's initial query. He, you, or anyone else can take it or leave it. It was worth it to me. I learned a lot from it. I fairly stated that the Program is not a panacea - that it would cost a lot more money to implement as written and that it would require a lot of work on the part of the magician, both in practice and in marketing. Semper Fi, dude.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 8, 2011 11:37AM)
Wow started in 2005 simply because that was when I started posting here? Well... no.

20+ years doing magic and nothing but magic and performance to support myself and my family quite well thanks for asking.

I am not "relatively new" to magic or the business therof. Perhaps it is exactly your newness that has caused you to not recognise a sales pitch web page when you see one! But that is cool. You are entitled to your opinion, heck you demand to be able to express it. Cool go ahead. But when I express one that you may not agree with, why is it you seem so eager to try and change that? I respect that you can have yours, I wish you would respect me enough to allow me to have mine.
Message: Posted by: JJJustice (Aug 8, 2011 12:06PM)
Comments that my statements "have an aroma", or insinuating that I'm purposefully hiding salient facts are an assault on my character... Not an opinion on the substance of my review. My post regarding how long you've been in the business was punctuated with a question mark... Not a declarative statement. The fact that you've been successful and able to support your family for so long puts you in that category I mention at the end of my last post: among those for whom I have the utmost respect and highest admiration.
Aren't they all "sales pitches?". A website promising to be "the most amazing demonstration of hypnosis you will eve see" may be considered a sales pitch by some. In the end, if it's worth it to the individual consumer, then the performer, salesman, or company delivered. I have every confidence that the Murder by Magic Show will have multiple runs, because people have had to be turned away and told to be on the lookout for the next date... Any show beyond the upcoming one is pure profit for me... Does that not make it worth it?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 8, 2011 12:50PM)
Obviously your exuberance knows no bounds. Great. Good for you. You STILL come across as a shill. PERIOD.
Message: Posted by: lou serrano (Aug 8, 2011 02:38PM)
JJ, your initial comment did a great job of answering the question of the original post. Your follow-up posts did an even better job of backing up your claims. Welcome to the Magic Café!

Unfortunately, this thread serves as a perfect example of why more people don't participate in these forums. In the Tricky Business forum you find the same dozen or so people participating in these discussions. Is it any wonder why more people don't participate?

This is supposed to be about magicians helping magicians, but when someone tries to answer a question in an honest and helpful way, the character of that person gets attacked. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion. Differing opinions should be respected, and it should be quite easy to do so by simply respecting your fellow human being.

Hopefully, this comment doesn't fall on deaf ears.

Remaining hopeful,

Lou Serrano
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 8, 2011 03:10PM)
OH no differing opinions don't get allowed Lou. We have to "help". What a load.

It is a sales pitch and that is that. At least admit it. I said it is a sales pitch. Big deal. Is that REALLY that insulting?

Nobody attacked charetor. What I questioned was the claims. AND TURNS OUT I WAS RIGHT! If he would have mentioned hey I am just a guy who does this once in a while and hope some day to run full time then cool. But look at the initial post. Then look at what he ended up saying. Tell me it is the same thing.

Yea we need to cheerlead every idea that comes out. That is "helping"? Everyone just buys everything anyone cares to put out without even thinking about it for a second? Seems like magicians helping other marketing guru types hawk crap. Oh yea I forgot then get mad when someone has an opinion that is different.

Do you read what you write? I am SO SICK of the idea that maybe things are not quite what they seem , but that does nto automaticaly make them bad.

JJ do what you will. I NEVER told you not to. You concede that you came across as a shill. This was what I was saying. But you have to admit that some of the claims seem to be a bit out there and need some looking into. Is that such a horrible position?
Message: Posted by: lou serrano (Aug 8, 2011 03:31PM)
I think JJ's posts came from the heart. I respect that he took a position and he aired his opinion. I don't believe JJ's follow up posts said anything that contradicted his initial post.

I believe everyone can get their message across without getting angry, and without belittling others.

Wishing you all much success!

Lou Serrano
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 8, 2011 03:39PM)
Oh Lou I never said he contradicted anything. I do say he filled in the gaps a bit with some details that are quite important don't you think?

Oh never mind. Yea rah rah rah everyone is great and buy any piece of crap anyone feels the need to throw together. NOBODY ever makes a bad product or just tries to sell things to people. Feel better now?
Message: Posted by: lou serrano (Aug 8, 2011 03:45PM)
[quote]
On 2011-08-08 16:39, Dannydoyle wrote:
Oh never mind. Yea rah rah rah everyone is great and buy any piece of crap anyone feels the need to throw together. NOBODY ever makes a bad product or just tries to sell things to people. Feel better now?
[/quote]

If this isn't belittling, I don't know what is.

Lou Serrano
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 8, 2011 03:59PM)
Good eye.

Let me be serious to make the point though. A 6 year old child can speak from the heart, does that make the point valid? It is possible (Lets not say in this case, but it is "possible".) that one can speak from the heart and make the case and not contradict themselves and simply not have enough experience to really know what they are talking about isn't it?

It is "possible" that just not every idea that comes across the bow is worthy of praise, in spite of the title of the forum isn't it?

Are others allowed to NOT agree? When they don't we get badgered by the SAME people! What suprises you about lashing back in frustration?

Serously if your position is that every idea has merit, then cool. But please do not try to hold me to that standard fair enough? I see some REALLY strange claims in that sales pitch about doing huge numbers of shows yet still having time to get all this together to sell. I find some of those claims to be suspect. What is wrong with that? Why is questioning things so bad?

If you don't like the manner in which it is done, then oh well. We are who we are. Get over it. I have not told you to change now have I? Again I would ask the same of you.
Message: Posted by: lou serrano (Aug 8, 2011 04:30PM)
Danny,

I completely respect your views and opinions. From time to time I agree with the things you say. I think your views come from experience, and that holds a lot of weight in my book.

I'm all for "questioning"; I'm not for "attacking". Attacks can take many forms, from outright name calling to belittling another person. That's my view, and although I wish more people took my stance, I won't condemn others for having a different way of expressing themselves. (Although, I must admit, I'm less inclined to listen to the message if I don't like the way the message is wrapped. To each his own.)

I can't imagine every marketing product that is released these days is a real winner. Questioning, analyzing, and discussing these items that are being sold is a good thing. One thing to keep is mind is that what might be great for me and you may not be a match for another person, and vice versa.

I know nothing about Cris Johnson or his product. I doubt his product would be a good match for me, since I create my own programs and market my own services. That’s not to say it wouldn’t be a great fit for someone else. If JJ Justice or anyone else has gotten value out of using this product, then more power to them. I wish them continued success.

As far as changing who you are, I’m not asking anything of you. I simply posted MY view about respect for others, and why I believe there are so few people contributing to these discussions.

Respectfully,

Lou Serrano
Message: Posted by: LVMagicAL (Aug 10, 2011 02:39PM)
[quote]
On 2011-08-08 17:30, lou serrano wrote:
Danny,

I simply posted MY view about respect for others, and why I believe there are so few people contributing to these discussions.

Respectfully,

Lou Serrano
[/quote]

You're absolutely right, Lou. That's the primary reason I don't offer up my comments on a more frequent basis. It's just not worth the headaches.
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Aug 12, 2011 04:38AM)
I'll be investing in this one :D
Message: Posted by: G. Batson (Aug 12, 2011 11:44AM)
Thanks for saving us Danny....yet again. I have never seen anyone who needs so badly to always be right.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 12, 2011 11:48AM)
Here is the deal though. IT IS AN OPINION!!!!!!! NOBODY IS RIGHT AND NOBODY IS WRONG!!!!!!

Don't you get that? Are you not bright enough to know that others can have an opinion? Certainly others are entitled to one. Starrpower and I have one, and you have one and JJ has one and others have one. ALL OF THEM RIGHT ABOUT HOW THIS WORKS FOR THEM! The problem comes in when people get offended that there is an opinion CONTRARY to their own. Then they start posting defensively and it goes downhill.

Yea I have to always be right. Take your head out of wherever it is and try living in reality.

Hey Lou, where does his attack on ME rate on your scale of how to be civil?
Message: Posted by: Futureal (Aug 13, 2011 07:09PM)
Too much caffeine.
Message: Posted by: KC Cameron (Aug 14, 2011 07:33PM)
Danny,

It is not so much what you wrote, but the way you chose to write it. Extremely aggressive and condescending. Your opinions are of value IF one can get past the bluster.

Danny, you are an accomplished magician, be gracious you managed to get a magic education that few living have. Pass it on.
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Aug 17, 2011 08:22PM)
Danny has strong opinions, but at the risk of coming off as a brown-nose, let me say he is one of the few people here whose posts I read very carefully. The trouble is we rarely know the background of people who post here. It is not an level playing field; some people know far more, and some know almost nothing yet throw advice around as if they are experts. Although Danny rarely discusses his own background, I am familiar with his training. I am also familiar with some of the venues he has secured long-term work at, and I am very impressed. So while he may have strong opinions, he's earned them and has the war scars to prove it.
Message: Posted by: Cris Johnson (Aug 17, 2011 09:40PM)
I was told of this thread by a friend of mine. I will only respond once, that's it.

First of all, James was not asked by me to contribute or "shill" my product. We are not "in cahoots" or anything. The fact that he chose to praise my product with his first post was very flattering.

Now to clear up a few things by Danny Doyle. (And once again, I AM too busy to get into a ****ing match with him or others like him).

First, I never claimed I made $500K per year, so get your freakin' facts straight. In my blog and other areas, I am honest about my earnings - a little over $100K per year. Unlike many magicians, I choose not to exaggerate my earnings.

Second, I chose to release this product because some magicians have contacted me after reading my blog and wanted to buy versions of some of the shows after looking at my websites. I then realized that if some honest folks were approaching me, it stands to reason that others would see the concept and steal it.

So I put it out to protect the fact that I developed the concept. A friend in Texas (no, it wasn't Cody Fisher) helped a little but, but most of this is MY baby.

Additionally, I'm exhausted. Really tired. I'm looking to get off the road and do more clinical hypnosis. The road is tiring and while I love performing, I am tired of the travel. My gameplan is to reduce (not eliminate) my show schedule. Do more hypnosis, spend more time with my wife and less in hotels.

Also, while I do like some corporate clients I've worked with, the corporate realm is not my primary passion - schools are, so I felt I could release the Murder show, as I affectionately call it.

I'd encourage anyone on the Café who decides to take shots at anyone's character based on the fact that they need to tear down a product they've never laid eyes on tells me all I need to know about Dannydoyle and others like him.

Some people on the Café are wonderful. However in most of my interactions, most of the Café people I have interacted with are small, petty people.

If Danydoyle and others like him are suspicious of the product, don't buy it. Product sales make up about 5-6% of my annual income. I do it because I enjoy writing and I'll never write the great american novel, so I release products. Some like them, others don't.

If you enjoy it, great. I appreciate it. If not, frankly, I don't give a rat's ass. The stuff works for me. My clients like it.

As I said, this will be my one and only response. If I upset anyone like Dannydoyle, too frickin' bad.

- Cris
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 18, 2011 12:31AM)
Wow lots of assumptios and personal shots, and you expext no response? Well since you obviously have the desire for the attention lets give it to you shall we? Here is from your web site, posted here on the first post of the thread.

On average, I earn about $1850 for a one hour performance of “Murder By Magic.” I’ve occasionally done shows in the $800 range 30 minutes or so away from my house for small groups of people. Quite often, I book the show for the healthy fee of $2495.

In fact, I recently booked the “Murder By Magic” show for the fee of $2495…and then a week later, someone from another company in the same city called me to tell me they had heard about the show from the first company…he then also booked it for the same fee!

Now I know that there are corporate magicians and mentalists out there who command a LOT more than that for a one hour show in the corporate market, but despite performing 250 shows per year (many of them in the corporate market), I have not fully immersed myself into the corporate market.

You say "on average I earn $1850 for a one hour performance". Ok cool lets use the 'average' you claim so readily. Then you go to state that you do 250 shows a year AND THAT IS NOT YOUR PRIMARY FOCUS! So if we just use the "average" you so readily claim and multiply that by the 250 shows you say you do (even though you have not fully imursed yourself in that market.) we come up with $462,500! Now that does not include your money from other sources such as the schools. Why are you so upset with me for simply running the numbers THAT YOU PROVIDE?

Others like me? Seriously? Those who bother to look at the claims made by those who choose to purchase those get rich quick type of web pages? Guys like me who simply want to make certain the claims made by the product developers are real claims and not crap? Hmmmm seems like you are the one upset here not I. I am simply wondering if the claims hold up when light is shined on them is all.

I am with you 100% that if an honest person will approach you, a dishonest one will definately try to get over on you. Good for you for taking initiative and protecting yourself. Smart. BUT you are angry with me for running numbers you provided. Maybe you could say that you were not quite as clear as you needed to be huh?

Getting off the road? Great and admirable goal no doubt.

Now in reality JJ was the one who said he probably looked like a shill, and read his posts he does. His first post and suddenly he is full force endorcing this? Yea I am the one who is out of line LOL.

So before you get all ruffled, and rumpled just step back and look for a second at how things appear from another point of view. Give it a shot.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Aug 18, 2011 03:51AM)
I guess I read the info in the marketing copy differently.

Yes, there were some confusing areas. Such as when he stated that he does many shows for the corporate market, and then also says he hasn't fully immersed himself in that market.

I never calculated his annual income at the level that others have, from reading other parts of his copy. I calculated his income for that specific show at a certain average. But I never assumed that all 250 of his annual shows were that specific show. He never really said how many of his annual shows were his "Murder by Magic" show (at that average level for that specific show).

$100K / 250 shows = $400 average per show.

I would guess that he does some shows for as low as $200, and maybe some shows for $1000+. For selling the product, he was focusing more on the shows he sells for $1000+ (and by tipping the fact that he did some local "murder by magic" shows for $800, he indicates that some of the bigger paydays, such as $2495, might include travel or multiple shows). Lots of performers "celebrate" their big paydays. That doesn't mean they don't have smaller paydays. Often performers have a few big paydays, and lots and lots of smaller paydays.

BTW, I know of some performers who work birthdays, daycares, schools, corporate, etc. They can tell you their average income per show in a certain market. But that isn't their average income per show, for all of their annual shows combined.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Aug 18, 2011 04:45AM)
P.S. I decided it might be fun to play with averages.

If a performer did 1 show at $2500 each, and 10 shows at $200 each, then that totals $4500. Divide that by 11 shows, and you get $409 average per show. So, that average shows the porportion of smaller shows to bigger shows.

I certainly wouldn't call 1 show out of 11 shows as doing "many shows" for that fee. However, I'm sure that performers like to focus on that one big payday, and celebrate it.

Multiply 11 x 23, and you get 253 (possible # of annual shows).

Multiply $409 (per show) x 253 (# of annual shows), and you get $103,477 (possible annual income). Again, this is to keep with the $100,000 annual income, and 250 annual shows, as averages.

A person could do 23 shows at $2500, and 230 shows at $200, and get $103,500. And their average pay per show would only be about $409.

For some, doing 23 shows a year at $2500 would be seen as "many" of that type of big show. But yet, in the grand scheme of doing 253 shows per year, perhaps it isn't.

In my averages calculations, I went very high on the corporate paydays ($2500 for every show) and very low on the other paydays ($200 per show). I went for extremes, and two fee levels only.

Some performers charge about $200 for daycare shows. And some performers do 4 school shows in a day, for $800 total (again, $200 per show).

Again, this is just for fun. It's more likely that performers will have a wider variety of fees in between $200 and $2500.
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Aug 18, 2011 07:26AM)
I'm with Donald, I didn't read the ad copy like that at all either. When Cris states that he hasn't immersed himself into that market, I thought it was quite obvious by that statement not all 250 shows were the Murder By Magic.

Also just because you charge a certain amount of money for a show, does not mean that is your income or take home pay!

There are obviously expenses to be paid out of that fee, including hotels, booking agents, fuel costs, transportation rentals, purchasing of props, promotional materials, etc etc.

I remember when I was doing corporate illusion shows(1 hour performances) and I'd charge $3k-$5k a show, and do 2-3 a week. Everyone I knew made the assumption that I was getting 9k-15k a week for working 3 hours...lol making over 100k a year clear...lol, but the truth was, after paying for dancers, assistants, lights and rigging, truck rentals, illusions, agents, traveling expenses, etc etc, I was really only making 30k a year, and had to put in about 16 hours a show with travel, set up, tear down and performance, or about 40-50 hours a week. And like Cris, I got sick of traveling and I personally wanted to settle down and start a family, but still loved magic so I started building illusions instead and creating tricks. I still work 40-50 hours a week but can do it from home, and I make a lot more money building than I ever did performing. But my point is that even if you were averaging huge commissions per show, I think its obvious and just common sense that your actual take home would be a much smaller portion than the actual fees charged. Well they were in my case anyway!

I think Cris has a killer concept! Very refreshing! I think, in the right hands, it is knowledge that can make some very successful! And it just sounds like a blast to perform!

Congrats Cris on a very unique concept. An offering that would definately be very new to clientelle!

Peter.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 18, 2011 09:40AM)
Here is the interesting part though guys. If you can get past the hype, if you get past the whole get rich quick nature of the web page, I think the idea is great. Seriously have I said one word about the concept? Back to that in a minute.

Sorry guys but the word "average" means something and you can blow it apart and apply any of your own theories you like it has a meaning. It is what it is.

The whole "murder" concept is old. I have NEVER seen it done with magic, and bet it would be cool provided it is not "over magiced". It is so "in" right now that Lowreys Prim Rib in Las Vegas (a pretty high end place) is running a Halloween night murder mystery dinner. The concept works with murder, so adding magic would be a good idea I should imagine.

But again my problem becomes some of the claims and marketing. Often guys have fantastic ideas, then use one of those cookie cutter web pages to sell it. That is what happens here, a cookie cutter get rich quick web page right down to the copy. It is what it is.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Aug 18, 2011 11:29AM)
[quote]
On 2011-07-09 06:51, magicodine wrote:
But what to charge…

On average, I earn about $1850 for a one hour performance of “Murder By Magic.” I’ve occasionally done shows in the $800 range 30 minutes or so away from my house for small groups of people. Quite often, I book the show for the healthy fee of $2495.

In fact, I recently booked the “Murder By Magic” show for the fee of $2495…and then a week later, someone from another company in the same city called me to tell me they had heard about the show from the first company…he then also booked it for the same fee!

Now I know that there are corporate magicians and mentalists out there who command a LOT more than that for a one hour show in the corporate market, but despite performing 250 shows per year (many of them in the corporate market), I have not fully immersed myself into the corporate market.[/quote]

Quoting from the first post on the thread. This is the section that seems to be causing the most problem.

In this copy, I read that it's an average of $1850 for THAT SPECIFIC SHOW -- Murder by Magic. He even says so in the same sentence. You can't chop off the end of that sentence, and apply $1850 to every single show he does.

In fact, all of the show fees that he quotes ($800, $1850, and $2495) refer to THAT SPECIFIC SHOW.

He also says that he does 250 shows a year, but never says that they are all in the corporate market.

He says that he hasn't fully immersed himself in that market. Which means of the 250 shows, a person really can't assume the majority are corporate shows.

And yet, he says that many are corporate shows in the same sentence. Which I agree is confusing.

(I assume a small percentage of his shows are corporate shows at a corporate fee level. I lean towards reading the emphasis that he doesn't do a lot of them.)

I think his discussion of two $2495 show paydays was a discussion of an extreme high-end booking example (and rare).

- Donald

P.S. I'll also admit that my reading of the copy might be somewhat biased. Here's why. Years ago, Cris sold some info products on school shows, and did teleseminars with Eric Paul. He might have also done some with Brad Ross or Jack Turk. So, when I thought of Cris, I thought of school shows mostly. In reading this new offer, I assumed corporate shows were just another part of that picture, and likely smaller.

Cris even talks about doing school shows in his ad copy (another section)... on weekdays, and 7-8 months of solid work.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 18, 2011 12:51PM)
Just imagine how much easier it would be if it was said something like this.

"I do about 75 corporate shows a year, and average $800 per performance of Murder by Magic".

Oh what a world if we didn't have to parse words and just give people credit for what they "mean". Do you think that would be a better way to go about it?
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Aug 18, 2011 01:37PM)
Yes, that wording would have been a better way, in my opinion.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 18, 2011 03:27PM)
Of course it would have been and it would have been perfectly clear. Now why oh why is it that marketers don't manage to talk simple like that in general?
Message: Posted by: James Munton (Aug 18, 2011 05:01PM)
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Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 18, 2011 08:41PM)
Where do I send money? Do you have an 'advanced course'?
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Aug 25, 2011 01:35PM)
Paul Romhany (aka "comedy" on The Magic Café), reviewed "Murder by Magic" on his vlog.

http://romhanyreport.blogspot.com/2011/08/hooker-card-rise-keeping-it-in-family.html

The review of this specific product begins at about 8 minutes 30 seconds into the video.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 25, 2011 02:39PM)
Again I will say when it gets down to it, I think if you don't "over magic" the concept it is fresh and cool.

I will also hasten to add that it falls well OUT of the "same ol same ol" category for corporate entertainment. That is not a good thing, it is a FANTASTIC thing.

My problems were with the way it was sold.

I will also add this in closing. IF I was to have to jump into the corporate market, something EXACTLY like this is what I would be looking for to sort of set myself apart from the pack. I can see an enterprising young magician really taking this idea and moving very far very quickly with it. My problem has never been with the concept.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Aug 25, 2011 03:07PM)
One of the reasons I shared the link was to show Paul sharing info on the product (he also talks about WHY Cris is selling this info).

Perhaps if Cris' sales copy didn't appeal to some, then Paul's vlog might appeal to some. Here's one person telling you about this product in their own words... here's another person telling you about this product in their own words.

Performers sell in many different ways. I know that some ways appeal to me more than others. But I do try to observe the ways that don't appeal to me personally.

Does straight-forward language work better, or does flowery, over the top, drawn out, sales-y language work better, when selling? Is exaggeration ever ok (and at what point does something become exaggeration)? What about guarantees? What builds trust, when you write or speak? Is it being genuine? Is it selling hard? Where does modesty fit in? Is it giving lots of information? Is it being consise? Is it being brutally honest? What builds a better relationship with your potential buyer?

I prefer straight forward and somewhat brief, as long as it's not rude. I don't think I'm as wordy as some people... on the other hand, I've had people call me wordy.

However, I also understand the need to convey enthusiasm, because selling is about emotion. We make an emotional decision to buy, and justify it with logic.

- Donald

P.S. We get that his sales copy didn't appeal to some people. On the other hand, I'm sure that it did appeal to some other people, and he had sales.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 25, 2011 03:43PM)
I bet this product could sell itself.

That is not an insult or flippant or a comment on how anything should or shouldn't be written. Just saying that the product itself is strong.
Message: Posted by: Paul Romhany (Sep 19, 2012 03:42AM)
Just came across this post. I generally stay away from reading long posts on the Café simply because I don't have the time so not sure what has gone on prior to my post, but wanted to drop in here with my own personal notes from having done this show for over a year.


I booked another gig today for my Murder By Magic at the largest Art Deco Festival in the World for February. They LOVED the concept and I didn't even need to sell it to them that much. They 'got' it straight away. Actually this type of show would be great for theatre performances and my cruise ship agent is now looking at booking this on cruise ships. They also thought the concept was fantastic as the audience become part of a crime scene. What is funny is they all respond with, "oh, like the Mentalist TV show?"

It really is an incredible concept for a show, especially for the corporate market. Probably the best investment I've ever made in respect to a show concept. I have shows booked through until next year here in NZ at really great fees - I charge $3500 for this show and have been performing this now in New Zealand since my return. I took the concept to the leading talent agency here and they were so excited about it they have just released it to all of their clients as THE show to have for Christmas. They are doing all the work for me in selling the show.

The corporate market LOVE this show because the Murder Mystery theme is so popular. I started off with Cris's original script and routines, but over a period of time have changed it and added my own personal touches and effects - so it's changed but the initial concept from Cris.

From personal experience I would say this is the best investment I've made, and it's given me an income that I wouldn't have had before. Cris gives his entire corporate show away here, and if you buy this I know he'll be happy to talk to you about it and other ideas. I've sent him several e-mails asking if he thinks certain effects would work and he's been very open and honest.

Just my two cents worth.
Message: Posted by: Norden (Jan 8, 2013 08:24PM)
It's posts like this that keep me off the Café. Thank you Paul for the review - based on a working pros opinion I will invest in this product.