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Topic: Cheating at Casino Blackjack
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Aug 31, 2011 01:04PM)
In 1981, Rouge Et Noir produced and distributed a VHS tape entitled Cheating at Blackjack – one of only two published VHS tapes on the subject (the other being by Dustin Marks which came out at a later date.) The guys on the tape are not demonstrators or magicians. While I don’t know them personally, they appear to have “been there” at some point in their life - demonstrating the moves they used previously in the live casino environment. This tape is superior to any other published VHS/DVD on casino BJ card cheating.

The original VHS, which I purchased in 1981 for $50.00 and still possess in its original plastic box, has been packed away for about 25 years. Because I believe it is such a worthwhile and valuable record of real work casino card cheating moves by ex-casino hustlers, I had a professional duplication service copy it to DVD format to preserve it.

The first part of the DVD demonstrates how casinos and casino dealers cheated the players in the past, using such moves as very good table break-out shuffles, false cuts, hops, pick up and riffle stacks, bubble, back and heel peeks, excellent dealer hole card switching, face-up and face down second dealing, flopping the deck and cheating the players with short pay-offs.

The next section shows player moves to cheat the casinos. Pinching, pressing, crimping cards to get an Ace, one handed two card mucks, two player card switching, very fast single deck cold deck switching and capping the deck on the dealer. The mucks and switches are demonstrated over a glass table top so one can see the action from below.

Dealer cheating the casino with an agent (confederate) follows showing various ways of cheating on the payoffs and flashing the hole card and top card combined with agent stopping and feeding cards to make the Big Player’s hand.

Dealer swinging with chips, using both an apron sub and a tie sub is the next item. I don’t believe there are any other DVDs that show dealer subs and moves to the sub. Also shows how the dealer can clap his hands prior to leaving the game (ostensibly to show he has no chips in his hand), and still swing with a chip(s) to his sub.

This is followed by a good demonstration of a second dealing prism shoe. The face plate is removed to show the construction and the locking mechanism. The visual difference in appearance between a second dealing shoe and a legitimate shoe is explained.

A very clever hold out table is then shown. The move in and out of the sneak is demonstrated and then the table is opened up and the mechanism is exposed and explained. This table is a real money winner in the right hands and has never been exposed before.

Finally, they demonstrate how a four deck cooler is switched into a BJ game and show what the move actually looks like. This is a very fast and clean move and has never been demonstrated before on tape or DVD.

What makes this DVD different is it is ALL the real work, demonstrated by people who in my opinion have “been there” and used these moves under fire. Most importantly, the moves and scams are not done in a vacuum, but shown in actual play format from beginning to end. This is a lot different from many DVDs marketed by various "experts” who have never moved themselves in any significant live action game and would probably “soil” their pants if they tried to move in a casino.

Much of this chicanery will still fly even with the tighter procedures and surveillance camera setups of today. Surveillance misses a great deal - it is more of a deterrent than a cheating catch-all. It is only when suspicion is aroused and the cameras zoom in close-up and at different angles would some of these methods be detected. Most of the time suspicion is not aroused if the moves and the play are done correctly.

If anyone would like to know more about this DVD, just PM me directly or make a post below.
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Sep 4, 2011 12:44AM)
Don't tell me you're going to attempt to distribute copies of this without having actual permission to do so. I could be mistaken but it sure sounds like it. If so that is anything but ethical.
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (Sep 4, 2011 01:21AM)
Oh, the irony.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Sep 4, 2011 01:24AM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-04 01:44, RS1963 wrote:
Don't tell me you're going to attempt to distribute copies of this without having actual permission to do so. I could be mistaken but it sure sounds like it. If so that is anything but ethical.
[/quote]

What do you care? This has nothing to do with magic, it's about cheating casinos.

Or are you a World Cop?
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Sep 4, 2011 01:32AM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-04 02:24, Artie Fufkin wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-09-04 01:44, RS1963 wrote:
Don't tell me you're going to attempt to distribute copies of this without having actual permission to do so. I could be mistaken but it sure sounds like it. If so that is anything but ethical.
[/quote]

What do you care? This has nothing to do with magic, it's about cheating casinos.

Or are you a World Cop?
[/quote]

Just because the video is on cheating it's ok to copy and sell regardless of if you have the rights to it or not? Answer it isn't. If you think it is ok your sadly mistaken.

Don't give me the old tired B.S. line of "There is no honor among thieves" either.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Sep 4, 2011 09:35AM)
"your" (see what I did there) an ethical chap I'm sure World Cop.
Good for you!

If you go back to complaining that somebody stole your Sponge Bunny routine, it'll play better.
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Sep 4, 2011 09:51AM)
Seems like the I.Q. of the newer member's drops day by day.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Sep 4, 2011 10:07AM)
Keep up the good work [b]World Cop[/b], the [b]Justice League[/b] appreciates your service!

You might want to read Caliostro's post one more time and ask yourself a question.

If a guy had access to a limited edition, limited release game protection tape in 1981, I wonder if he actually might be somebody of note in the world of game protection?
That he was able to get his hands on the tape in the first place might indicate something important in terms of answering that question.
That he still has it over 25 years later might also be worth considering.

He may even be the guy who made the tape. Remember the Café is all just words on a computer screen, nobody has sworn an oath in a court of law, and you never really know who you're talking to.
Perhaps Rouge Et Noir passed on all rights to him.
Perhaps its a compendium of surveillance footage, with no actual "owner".

It doesn't really matter what it is though World Cop, because you know absolutely nothing about Calliostro, or the tape/DVD under discussion.
Nothing at all.

Careful now, the Justice League needs you, and you can't fight crime with your foot in your mouth.
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (Sep 4, 2011 10:26AM)
Q.E.D.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Sep 4, 2011 10:38AM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-04 11:26, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Q.E.D.
[/quote]

Yeah, I guess that's appropriate.

How about this?, [i]"I couldn't care less what you think RS1963"[/i]
Message: Posted by: NJJ (Sep 4, 2011 04:55PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-04 02:24, Artie Fufkin wrote:

Or are you a World Cop?
[/quote]

This made me laugh out loud.
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Sep 4, 2011 06:03PM)
I know that and I don't care what anyone thinks either this isn't a popularity contest. I can say what I want just as you or the others can say what they want. Within reason of course.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Sep 4, 2011 06:48PM)
I actually enjoy most of your posts RS1963, and my statement was more an attempt at a comedic response to the "Q.E.D." tag than it was any sort of definitive statement.

I'm not a comedian by trade, so sadly my efforts often go unappreciated :)

Peace.
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Sep 4, 2011 06:56PM)
Ah ok well thank you. I don't care that much for mine that much. In fact I often wish I didn't get so mouthy on here. But this place has a way of doing that to me at times. I'm not likes this really. I hope not anyway. I think we both see the other's side it's just that it didn't come out looking like it from what I did say. Sorry about that.
Message: Posted by: NFS (Sep 4, 2011 08:45PM)
Now why can't all Café arguments end like this? RS1963 I commend you for your response.

Not that it matters much but I have seen the tape in question and it is definitely one of my favorites.

-Nicholas
Message: Posted by: iamslow (Sep 17, 2011 02:55PM)
What does Q.E.D. mean?
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Sep 17, 2011 03:22PM)
"Quod Erat Demonstrandum", in Latin and "which had/was to be demonstrated" in English.
Message: Posted by: 1908 (Oct 3, 2011 04:43PM)
I have not realised and ordered from him...I recieved an illegal copy of a vhs to dvd...really bad quality and nothing new...actually I just watched 3 minutes and it was so boring...i reported the situation to paypal and the seller denied a refund...if he continues I will take it to the law...I have all his details...
Message: Posted by: 1908 (Oct 4, 2011 07:14AM)
Ok...Paypal decided in order to recieve a refund to send the illegal dvd back to the seller and provide additional prove with online signatures,etc...That is going to cost me another $10-$15 and also the seller told me that he is going to deduct another $8...so anyone that can advise me where can I report the seller that he is selling around illegal copies?I will make my full research but any additional information is much appreciated...I can provide address,name and all the details...
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Oct 4, 2011 09:01AM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-03 17:43, 1908 wrote:
..i reported the situation to paypal and the seller denied a refund...if he continues I will take it to the law...I have all his details...
[/quote]

Hold on, just for a second, what part of these quotes from the sellers original post [i]didn't[/i] you understand?

[i]"one of only two published VHS tapes on the subject"[/i]
[i]"In 1981, Rouge Et Noir produced and distributed a VHS tape"[/i]
[i]"The original VHS, which I purchased in 1981"[/i]
[i]"I had a professional duplication service copy it to DVD format to preserve it."[/i]

I guess the question would have to be, are you so thick that even after reading the above you didn't know what you were buying?
or, (far more likely) are you simply looking for attention?

BTW, when you popped it into your player to have a look, you didn't happen to make a quick copy to hang on to after your attempt to return the original did you?
I mean, you really don't have to "have a look" at it in your player to tell if its a copy, do you?

Perhaps you need to start paying a lot closer attention than you currently are.
Message: Posted by: splice (Oct 4, 2011 09:32AM)
Artie, that's a bit heavy. I contacted the seller myself because I interpreted what he wrote in such a way that I believed that he had a VHS, had it transferred to DVD for playback and archiving purposes, and was selling the lot. There is a difference between selling the original with a DVD copy for viewing and keeping the original and selling multiple DVD copies to different people.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Oct 4, 2011 09:54AM)
Based on the past posts I've read of yours splice, I respect your opinion.

However, based on this statement:
[i]"If anyone would like to know more about [b]this DVD[/b], just PM me directly or make a post below."[/i]

(emphasis mine) it seemed pretty clear that he was selling DVD's, not a VHS.

As you yourself pointed out that you contacted the OP with questions (as per his offer of [i]"If anyone would like to know more..... [b]just PM me directly or make a post below[/b].[/i]), the OP obviously had all bases covered for anybody who was actually paying attention.

I guess if this was the Beginners Magic forum, a poster would have to be extra detailed for those who might not be so quick to understand what they were saying, but considering this forum is called "The Gambling Spot", I guess expectations are a bit higher (perhaps mistakenly so).
In a forum such as this one, is that level of hand holding really required?
It shouldn't be.

Whatever the outcome, and based on this thread, the chances of anybody offering up somewhat "underground" material ever again here are slim to non-existent ------- so, "good work" to those that apparently ruined it for everybody else who actually [i]was[/i] paying attention, and can [i]appreciate[/i] being offered access to somewhat difficult to acquire items like this one.
Message: Posted by: splice (Oct 4, 2011 10:09AM)
I'm not saying that the guy shouldn't have done due diligence and verified what he was buying (I did), I'm saying that I can understand some confusion on his part. He ought to have confirmed his assumptions and that's the real problem here.

As far as the rest of the thread, well.. I ain't got no horse in this race so I'll leave that alone.
Message: Posted by: popcalinda (Oct 4, 2011 11:17AM)
I have that video , it is with Joe Baseel and it is very good. More info here:

http://www.bjrnet.com/member/bjapr/Videos.htm

What I am looking for:

Stop card cheaters

Author: Kris Keiser; Michael Barclay; Bodine Balasco; Kalimba Productions, Inc.; GoodTimes Home Video (Firm)
Publisher: Nes York, N.Y. : GoodTimes Home Video, 1991.
Edition/Format: VHS video : VHS tape Visual material : English KUPLJENA SVEN SALJE


52 minutes of cards by Allan Ackerman or cards with allan ackerman
tech.director ken yerike 1982 year, 52 Minutes of Cards [1980, Card Table Artifice]

Beating the Card Cheats [VHS)
Rated: NR |Format: VHS Tape Format: Color, NTSC
Rated: NR (Not Rated)
Number of tapes: 1
Studio: Tapeworm Video Dist
VHS Release Date: June 24, 1997

Card Cheats!:New Look at An Old Game [VHS] (1995)
Format: Color, NTSC
Rated: NR (Not Rated)
Number of tapes: 1
Studio: American Production
VHS Release Date: February 29, 1996
Run Time: 30 minutes

Johnny Purdy - Modern Way to Detect Cheating in Poker
Message: Posted by: 1908 (Oct 4, 2011 11:22AM)
Artie you wrote:

"I guess the question would have to be, are you so thick that even after reading the above you didn't know what you were buying?
or, (far more likely) are you simply looking for attention?"

What you are saying has nothing to do with what happened...Why to look for your attention?Believe me I do not need your attention!Maybe you are "Cagliostro" hiding behind another profile???What "splice" wrote is what exactly I thought:"Artie, that's a bit heavy. I contacted the seller myself because I interpreted what he wrote in such a way that I believed that he had a VHS, had it transferred to DVD for playback and archiving purposes, and was selling the lot. There is a difference between selling the original with a DVD copy for viewing and keeping the original and selling multiple DVD copies to different people."
For $35 I would never buy an illegal dvd!I thought nobody would advertise here in the Café something illegal so easy...That is why I did not give much attention...i thought I was buying the original VHS with a companion disc...I do not understand your flustration Artie...There are some rules in this world...i am sure your read them everytime you watch a magic dvd...Now if you are the one that needs attention then go and sell pirated dvds...
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (Oct 4, 2011 12:36PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-04 01:44, RS1963 wrote:
Don't tell me you're going to attempt to distribute copies of this without having actual permission to do so. I could be mistaken but it sure sounds like it. If so that is anything but ethical.
[/quote]

1908, second post sums it up for ya
Message: Posted by: 1908 (Oct 4, 2011 01:02PM)
I can show the time I ordered it and that was immediately when I read the post...I am a collector as well and I have a huge collection with gambling history...As I said,the idea of someone to place in an open forum,something pirated for sale,never passed from my mind...What else to say,i can not believe that you support the pirates...All those destroy our art and also the creators...Ask Banachek,ask Cassidy,ask Knepper...ask them how they feel about it...Still can not understand those that you support illegal pirated copies...also Cagliostro never replied since he placed his "ad" in this forum...All I wanted was my money back since I hate the idea that I gave my money to a pirate!!!If I do not recieve a full refund the next three days,all I have to do is to follow the legal way to give an end...I have created a file with all posts,emails,addresses...Cagliostro,i think I have been very clear...
Message: Posted by: 1908 (Oct 4, 2011 01:30PM)
Also from the many different names you can realise that we have a "special" situation...I recieved an email from someone "Ken Bauer" but at the end he signs as John Hanson,Customer Service,Cyber Enterprises,Inc.
Anyone know this company?Cagliostro,Ken or John,i just want my money back for the pirated copy you sent to me!
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (Oct 4, 2011 02:35PM)
Still, the post spells it out for you. Buyer beware
Message: Posted by: Enzo (Oct 4, 2011 02:37PM)
[quote] I have not realised and ordered from him...I recieved an illegal copy of a vhs to dvd...really bad quality and nothing new...actually I just watched 3 minutes and it was so boring...i reported the situation to paypal and the seller denied a refund...if he continues I will take it to the law...I have all his details...[/quote]

1908, I realize that you're probably not a native English speaker, and that's OK. But I'm pretty sure sentences end with a single period in most languages and there's a space after that period and the next sentence starts with a capital. Please put a little effort in writing your posts. They make my eyes hurt. Also see the [url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=4408&forum=39&0]Magic Café posting guidelines[/url].
Message: Posted by: 1908 (Oct 4, 2011 02:54PM)
OK Enzo,thanks for the suggestion.Greek is my native language and I am trying my best.You could easily PM me since that comment has nothing to do with my post or the subject.I would love to hear your thoughts for the main subject instead of my poor grammar.Also speaking for grammar,all my sentences start with capital and first time I hear that I have to place space after a full stop!Anyway,i am very proud for my language and you can read a lot in wikipedia:

"The Greek alphabet is a set of twenty-four letters that has been used to write the Greek language since the 8th century BC.[2] It is still in use today. It is the first and oldest alphabet in the narrow sense that it notes each vowel and consonant with a separate symbol.[3] The letters were also used to represent Greek numerals, beginning in the 2nd century BC."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet

Anyway,since I realised something from all your comments,i will not reply in this post anymore,i will do what I have to do...Thanks for the support!
Message: Posted by: Enzo (Oct 4, 2011 04:15PM)
[quote]all my sentences start with capital[/quote]
I beg to differ:
[quote]
That is why I did not give much attention...i thought I was buying the original VHS with a companion disc...I do not understand your flustration Artie...There are some rules in this world...i am sure your read them everytime you watch a magic dvd...[/quote]

This is an English-language forum and in English, one separates words by spaces, regardless whether they are followed by commas, (see?), exclamation points, question marks or periods. If you weren't aware of this, I'm glad to have been of help. However although I do know that the ancient Greeks had no punctuation, a quick look [url=http://www.kathimerini.gr/]here[/url] shows me that you've picked it up since and that you do add a space after your words.

Nonetheless, my post wasn't meant as a personal attack, but more as a general comment to make people aware that spelling, grammar and punctuation conventions are there for a reason: they facilitate communication. This is also the reason that I didn't PM you but posted it on this forum.

Back on topic, I agree with the rest here that you could have know it was a copy of a VHS. On the other hand, I agree with you that saying you're selling an (illegal) copy of a VHS tape (i.e., covering all your bases) doesn't make it any more legal. I wish you all the best with your efforts to get your money back, and I hope that at least this topic has served as a warning to others.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Oct 4, 2011 07:36PM)
I purchased the DVD from Cagliostro, am thankful to have been offered access to some long unavailable and rare footage, and couldn't be happier watching what is obviously an example of some "real work". Maybe not the best work ever put on film, but "real work" of a high enough quality that it's worth watching.

I love the DVD, and would buy it all over again exactly as it was offered in this thread.

Anybody ordering this DVD and not knowing from the OP's statements what it was all about really ought to [i]give their head a shake[/i] ---- or go back to working with sponge bunnies.
Message: Posted by: 1908 (Oct 5, 2011 10:17AM)
Ok Mr."Fufkin" you are free to support thieves and buy pirated copies.As for me I gave my head a few shakes and I am playing with my sponge bunnies!Thanks for the suggestion!As for the "rare" footage,i watched a bit more and found nothing new.Maybe you are a beginner in this field that is why you feel such an enthousiasm about kids gambling demonstrations.Most probably you have never seen "real workers".Anyway,my sponge bunnies say hello to you!
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (Oct 5, 2011 10:54AM)
In a section of the Café that should for the most part be called "The Cheating Spot," better still, in a thread about about a product specifically aimed at cheating, there's a sub-discussion about the ethics of pirating videos? That's awesome. Anyone who feels ripped off for being duped (pun intended) into buying an illegal video should just pretend they lost the money in, say, a poker game because somebody got over on them by dealing a perfect second. That should make the whole experience more palatable.

Or perhaps the main complaint was about the picture quality. In which case, well, I guess the same advice applies. It's just not as funny.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Oct 5, 2011 11:06AM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-05 11:17, 1908 wrote:
Ok Mr."Fufkin" you are free to support thieves and buy pirated copies.[/quote]
I have every intention of doing just that, and thanks for your personal endorsement.
You are, however, starting to sound dangerously like a mentalist.


[quote]As for me I gave my head a few shakes and I am playing with my sponge bunnies[/quote]
Let us know how that goes, and how you get "better reactions" with your sponge rabbit bit.


[quote]Maybe you are a beginner in this field [/quote]
Maybe not.

[quote]Most probably you have never seen "real workers"[/quote]
;)

Here, let me get you a soft tissue so you can dab those tears of yours.
In the spirit of [i]never[/i] giving "game to a lame", I sincerely hope your money gets refunded to you, and that copy you made of the DVD fails to actually play.
Message: Posted by: 1908 (Oct 5, 2011 11:31AM)
I never made a copy of the stupid dvd,i sent it back today,i do not need a dvd,wish you knew my story with gambling Mr.Clever.Actually,i invite you to play any gambling game of your choice.I can win you before we start!...and yes,i love mentalism and I built all my magic,gambling and mentalism collection winning "clever" loosers like you,that think they know everything.I bet even my sponge bunnies can win a looser like you!
Message: Posted by: 1908 (Oct 5, 2011 11:36AM)
Actually time is money and I do not have time to loose with loosers,i will proceed with what I have to do.Good luck "Artie" or "Cagliostro" selling your copies around for $35!That shows how low you can go because you can never win in a real game!
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (Oct 5, 2011 12:35PM)
1908, when you play cards, do you leave out a set of keys?
Message: Posted by: 1908 (Oct 5, 2011 12:41PM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-05 13:35, kcg5 wrote:
1908, when you play cards, do you leave out a set of keys?
[/quote]

LOL!Actually I quit that kind of living,i am only using cards to play while I am watching tv to keep my fingers working and because I do not smoke.I would love to have those 4 fried chickens and the coke!;)
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Oct 5, 2011 02:46PM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-05 12:31, 1908 wrote:
I bet even my sponge bunnies can win a looser like you!
[/quote]
I mean, really, what can one say in response to your brilliant comeback above?

I graciously bow out and accept defeat, you're the clear weiner in this debate.
Message: Posted by: 1908 (Oct 5, 2011 03:32PM)
Ok Artie,now go and watch your pirated dvd to learn some basic moves!If you need help with sponge bunnies let me know...
Message: Posted by: 1908 (Oct 5, 2011 03:39PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-04 10:35, Artie Fufkin wrote:
"your" (see what I did there) an ethical chap I'm sure World Cop.
Good for you!

If you go back to complaining that somebody stole your Sponge Bunny routine, it'll play better.
[/quote]

Just realised your obsession with those sponge bunnies!!!
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Oct 5, 2011 06:51PM)
Love them sponge bunnies as long as somebody else is doing them, and I'm far enough away that I can't see or hear them.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Oct 14, 2011 03:15PM)
It seems like 1908 has a problem with the DVD he ordered and is continually complaining about it.

PayPal is handling the transaction and according to PayPal, as soon as 1908 returns the DVD, PayPal will issue a refund.

Seems simple enought to me. Unfortunately 1908 did not see that value in the historically preserved material he received.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Oct 14, 2011 04:44PM)
It seems like 1908 is making a big issue about the DVD he received. Please note that the original post on this thread describes the product very clearly and completely, including what it is, what it represents, and what the content are.

In addition, the following is the original PM 1908 sent to me, and my PM response regarding the DVD and its resolution quality:

[quote]Posted: Fri, Sep 2nd, 2011 - 6:06 PM (EST)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Cagliostro,
I am very interested for the dvd...Is there any chance to send me a copy? I would love to see their ideas and way of working.

Best Regards,

Marios
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cagliostro
New user
Posted: Sat, Sep 3rd, 2011 - 1:24 AM (EST)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would be happy to get a copy of the DVD to you. The price is $35.00 which includes shipping and handling.

The best way to send funds is by PayPal. Simply go to their site and send to (email omitted for privacy purposes). A DVD will be shipped to you within one business day. Overseas orders will take 7 to 10 days. US orders take about three to four days…

Keep in mind the tape was originally produced in 1981 so it reflects the production standards of that era. The resolution is about an "8" on a scale of 1-10. Certainly clear enough to follow everything closely and easily. The information is dynamite. No fancy BS, just the down and dirty real work. These guys were not fooling around.

If you have never seen the real work, and most haven't, you will be quite amazed.

Best regards, [/quote]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note that 1908 clearly is requesting information on a “dvd,” so he knows what he is getting.

However, 1908 cannot keep the DVD, claim foul and expect a refund. If he only looked at the first three minutes of the DVD as he states on one of his posts, then how can he ascertain the value of the contents?

However, the $35.00 he paid is negligible to me. The resolution center at PayPal is handling this. Once he returns the DVD, without trying to copy it, PayPal will issue a refund.

So 1908, return the DVD, stop complaining and get on with your life.

Unfortunately, you are missing out on some very good information on how these guys busted out the players and the casinos in the 60s through 80s.
Message: Posted by: 1908 (Oct 15, 2011 04:17AM)
Anyone interested in the above DVD,although I do not recommend it,i have it for sale for $20 postpaid!!!PM me for details!
300 copies available.
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Oct 15, 2011 06:30AM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-15 05:17, 1908 wrote:
Anyone interested in the above DVD,although I do not recommend it,i have it for sale for $20 postpaid!!!PM me for details!
300 copies available.
[/quote]

There is your admission that he copied it and intends to profit from said copies... case closed.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Oct 15, 2011 12:26PM)
Here is an update on 1908’s big stink about the DVD he received. PayPay just sent me this email notifying me that they will no longer honor Marios'(1908) request for refund. Here is a copy of the email I received from PayPal (names and emails deleted for privacy purposes):

[quote]Dear Mr. xxx xxxx,

PayPal has concluded the investigation of the following claim:

Buyer's name: Marios xxxx
Buyer's email: xxxxxxx@hotmail.com
Transaction ID: 63V24260U3492240Y
Transaction date: Sep 4, 2011
Transaction amount: $35.00 USD
Your transaction ID: 6LU15170TK184514F
Case number: PP-001-505-456-999

The claim has been closed because the buyer has not responded within the
specified amount of time. No further action is required of you.

Thank you for your cooperation.[/quote]
So 1908 ordered the DVD, immediately requested a refund upon receipt and started to moan and groan on this thread. When I informed PayPal to honor his request when he returned the DVD, 1908 was informed of that fact by PayPal. His claim has expired since he would not return the original DVD.

Evidently his intend was to acquire the DVD, get a refund, copy the original and sell pirated copies of same. When he saw that he had to return the DVD first to get his refund, he decided to keep it.

Note that even though he does not recommend it, he wants to now sell it as noted by his above post of Oct.15, 2011 5:17am. Talk about integrity… 1908 continues to display his high integrity with each post he makes.

Please note I DO recommend this DVD and can answer any questions about the various ploys shown. 1908 does not have the slightest clue as to what and why the content constitutes the real work during the time period shown (and even today for that matter).

There is really not a whole lot more to say, although I’m sure 1908 will continue to justify his untenable position.
Message: Posted by: NFS (Oct 15, 2011 01:53PM)
You're both in the wrong for distributing copyrighted works.

1908 is in the wrong double-time for acting like a full-blown *****.

-Nicholas
Message: Posted by: 1908 (Oct 15, 2011 10:40PM)
I was just ironic and making fun saying that I am selling the stupid pirated dvd.Now $15 free shipping!199 left!I did not sent the dvd back because it would cost me at least $15 because paypal wanted to sent it registered with online proof.Also the pirate seller emailed me saying that he would not give me a refund.So I decided rather than having him crying thru his profiles here and gamble another $15 to just keep it!
Cagliostro I give you another opportunity to apologise and send me a full refund,as I wrote in a previous post you sold me something illegal and I will do what I have to do.With help of members here I tracked down who you are and I have every detail of you.Think wise,if you want to gamble about this,i am telling you,you will loose big time!189 left!
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Oct 16, 2011 06:33AM)
Wow! You sure are being "fun" and "ironic" :heckno: .

Really!?
The members here helped you track down his personal info and now you are issuing veiled threats??

That 35 bucks must have been a whole years allowance huh...
that's really gotta hurt.
Message: Posted by: JasonR (Oct 16, 2011 09:19AM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-16 07:33, The Dowser wrote:
That 35 bucks must have been a whole years allowance huh...
that's really gotta hurt.
[/quote]

Now [i]that[/i] was funny.
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (Oct 16, 2011 09:34AM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-15 23:40, 1908 wrote:With help of members here I tracked down who you are and I have every detail of you.
[/quote]

I certainly hope this is not true.
Message: Posted by: 1908 (Oct 16, 2011 04:02PM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-16 10:34, kcg5 wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-10-15 23:40, 1908 wrote:With help of members here I tracked down who you are and I have every detail of you.
[/quote]

I certainly hope this is not true.
[/quote]

Why? I really do not understand you guys ! Why you all people support illegal copies of videotapes? Is this how things work in your countries? I do not believe that even the pirate seller is still writing here with such attitude! What else can I say! Wow ! And yes,there are people here that emailed me and they totally agree with my (legal?) way of thinking !
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Oct 16, 2011 06:02PM)
As far as I have read in this thread, you are the only one who has "supported illegal copies of videotapes". You now want to go one step further and put on your halo so you can recover your allowance. It was said earlier that you're both wrong and I wholly agree with the assertion that you, in particular, are doubly wrong. But since this is the magic Café where magicians help other magicians, I will give you an ancient prosperity spell that may help you recover your allowance.
repeat the following magic words once for every dollar you gave to the video pirate and once more for every tear that you've shed:

OWAH....

TADDOOOO....

SHYAM!
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Oct 16, 2011 07:24PM)
Hahaha, brilliant.
Message: Posted by: 1908 (Oct 16, 2011 07:30PM)
Thanks Dowser, is that a funny line from your comedy show? I believe you have a talent as a clown! You should use the above lines in the birthday parties you may go, if they ever book you!Is your profile picture the one you use in your bussiness cards? I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in my life for magic so I do not believe $35 means something for me, that is why I chose not to sent it back Mr.Comedian!Anyway, that was really my LAST post to this topic. Dvd is now available for $12 postage paid!!!LOL
Message: Posted by: 1908 (Oct 16, 2011 07:43PM)
24 copies left!
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (Oct 16, 2011 08:23PM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-16 20:30, 1908 wrote:
Anyway, that was really my LAST post to this topic.
[/quote]



[quote]
On 2011-10-16 20:43, 1908 wrote:
24 copies left!
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: NFS (Oct 16, 2011 11:15PM)
What is it about this place that attracts so many internet trolls?
Message: Posted by: Enzo (Oct 17, 2011 08:48PM)
[quote]I did not sent the dvd back because it would cost me at least $15[/quote]

The flight to go and beat up Cagliostro, now you've "tracked him down" is going to be a helluva lot more...
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Oct 18, 2011 05:30AM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-16 20:30, 1908 wrote:
Thanks Dowser, is that a funny line from your comedy show? I believe you have a talent as a clown! You should use the above lines in the birthday parties you may go, if they ever book you!Is your profile picture the one you use in your bussiness cards? I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in my life for magic so I do not believe $35 means something for me, that is why I chose not to sent it back Mr.Comedian!Anyway, that was really my LAST post to this topic. Dvd is now available for $12 postage paid!!!LOL
[/quote]

Ironically, this is the same reaction you get when you sprinkle salt on a leech.
Message: Posted by: Jeff J. (Dec 16, 2011 08:15PM)
On Oct 15, 1908 wrote: "I did not sent the dvd back because it would cost me at least $15 because paypal wanted to sent it registered with online proof."

Then on Oct 16, 1908 wrote: "I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in my life for magic so I do not believe $35 means something for me, that is why I chose not to sent it back..."

I can only speak for myself, but if I had hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend on magic, I'd probably be able to scrape up 15 bucks to ship a DVD back after taking the trouble to file a complaint. Are you sure that with all those hundreds of thousands of dollars of magic laying around, the DVD didn't just get lost in your warehouses full of magic?
Message: Posted by: iamslow (Dec 20, 2011 04:00AM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-15 23:40, 1908 wrote:
Cagliostro I give you another opportunity to apologise and send me a full refund,as I wrote in a previous post you sold me something illegal and I will do what I have to do.With help of members here I tracked down who you are and I have every detail of you.Think wise,if you want to gamble about this,i am telling you,you will loose big time!189 left!
[/quote]

1908 Were you born on that year or are you an Idiot?? don't you think Cagliostro has your full name and address too?? You did order the dvd through paypal and he did send it to your address didn't he?? And with you'r name as well "Mario".... We got another weiner here folks...Obviously you weren't born that year.. :applause:
Message: Posted by: jerome96114 (Feb 10, 2012 08:50AM)
Wether it is ethically to sell copies or not, but don't you realize, what danger you are in,
by posting this all?

If anyone had the "great" idea of sending a link of this topic to the copyright holder of that VHS, then at least Cagliostro,
but probably also the buyers for supporting piracy (not sure though, as I - beeing german - do not know exactely how US laws
deal with that subject) would be brought to court.

But Cagliostro would be brought to court for sure. And it would not really take the police to long, to get his IP -> Him.




And if the Copyright holder claims his rights after ACTA or similar laws have been passed also even the Café could be taken
off for this offer on this forum.

So I do not get why you are so stupid to make that offer, leading possibly to jurisdical consequenses, on an open Forum,
and why the Mods do not delete this topic ...
Message: Posted by: silverking (Feb 10, 2012 09:38AM)
Thanks for coming out tonight Jerome!

Careful getting back home........and enjoy the rest of your evening!
Message: Posted by: cartouche7 (Feb 10, 2012 09:39AM)
Hahaha
Message: Posted by: jerome96114 (Feb 10, 2012 10:40AM)
Well, I just do not want person to get this forum in danger as I really like it.
If you need to do illegal stuff, then do it over PM, but not where everyone (including jurisdication)
could read it. Please.

I made this experience once. (The main page of the german programming forum rpg-atelier.net was changed
[possibility of uploading own rpg-maker games taken away from us users] because ONE user was so stupid
to upload a game using commercial music), and it sucked ...

So PLEASE delete that topic. I do not say, do not do it, but do it over PM or e-mail, but not
in the OPEN parts of the Forum ... !!!
Message: Posted by: cartouche7 (Feb 10, 2012 10:47AM)
Is there a link for downloading any copyrighted stuff in this topic?
Message: Posted by: jerome96114 (Feb 10, 2012 11:24AM)
No, but an open offer to buy illegal copies of an VHS. That is illegal as well, and in some countries of the earth could also lead to problems
to the owner of the forum "tolerating" the establishment of an kinda "illegal marketplace".

I'm not sure where the servers of the Café stand, and do not know that much about (foreign) law, so I do not know if especially the Café is
endangered by something like this, but I think it'be better not to take the risk.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Feb 10, 2012 01:10PM)
In response to jerome96114 above:

If you take the time to read the original post, it says, “If anyone would like to know more about this DVD, just PM me directly or make a post below.” I don’t see how it can be made any clearer.

I have never read a post by you before so evidently you don’t make many contributing insertions on this topic matter, if at all. It seems like you are limited to just passively reading the posts – for free.

However, if you are unhappy with my post, PM the administrator and have it deleted. In fact, as far as I am concerned, you can have ALL my posts deleted. Quite frankly, although we have a number of good people on "The Gambling Spot" which I enjoy corresponding and posting with, we also have a couple of no-nothing “a”-holes and cry babies and I am tired of wasting my time with them.

So, if you like, just request that ALL my posts be deleted. I have no problem with that and you won’t have any further problems with my posts, which you read for free and which contain information you don't have a clue about and won’t find anywhere else.
Message: Posted by: Tony45 (Feb 11, 2012 01:28AM)
Cag, don't waste your time on this kid. He probably stands in front of his bathroom mirror for a half hour and pops the zits off his face before he goes to school in the morning, on the short bus that is.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Feb 11, 2012 07:33AM)
@Cagliostro,

Man, just don't give a *** about those new perfect and politically correct minded people who seem to have discovered with the Gambling Spot a new summit to conquer.

We sure can't fight with them. They're young, they are clever because they all have the full (fruit name company here) catalog and are very talented because they all have very important degrees like doctor in parapsychology, in business or in leisure studies.

I'm really surprised none of them has asked the administrators to delete this forum so far. Geez, guys talking about gambling, what an horrible thing!

Stay with us! A lot of fun in front of us.
Message: Posted by: jerome96114 (Feb 11, 2012 08:51AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-11 02:28, Tony45 wrote:
Cag, don't waste your time on this kid. He probably stands in front of his bathroom mirror for a half hour and pops the zits off his face before he goes to school in the morning, on the short bus that is.
[/quote]

Well ... actually I go to university and study, but now that you feel the need to try to insult me PROBABLY I actually should try to find out who holds the copyright on this, and see where it takes this place ...
Message: Posted by: silverking (Feb 11, 2012 10:08AM)
He didn't [i]try[/i] to insult you, he did a [b]great job[/b] of insulting you!
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Feb 11, 2012 10:53AM)
@jerome,

You should contact the following:

- http://www.fbi.gov/
- http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/index.htm

Hey, soon 50 posts, you're gonna be a big boy!
Message: Posted by: Tony45 (Feb 11, 2012 12:25PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-11 09:51, jerome96114 wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-02-11 02:28, Tony45 wrote:
Cag, don't waste your time on this kid. He probably stands in front of his bathroom mirror for a half hour and pops the zits off his face before he goes to school in the morning, on the short bus that is.
[/quote]

Well ... actually I go to university and study, but now that you feel the need to try to insult me PROBABLY I actually should try to find out who holds the copyright on this, and see where it takes this place ...
[/quote]

What you PROBABLY should do is shut your mouth, hit the road and come back when you start shaving or when you figure out that your johnson is used for something besides peeing with.
You want to come here and start playing Dick Tracy ? Trying ot get your junior G-Man badge before the summer starts ?

Heres some good advice : Go back to playing with your sponge balls and your vanishing wand and your Houdini cuffs. Do any of those, but stop trying to bust Cagliostros balls, not the best of ideas.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Feb 11, 2012 02:00PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-11 09:51, jerome96114 wrote:
PROBABLY I actually should try to find out who holds the copyright on this, and see where it takes this PLACE...
[/quote]
(Capitalization added to the word "place" above for emphasis.)

I sure the BB administrator would be delighted to have you TRY to bring unjustified, unwarranted and unsubstantiated heat on his site, which incidentally will amount to nothing in the end. Heck, he might even revoke your posting privileges which probably would not matter much to the rest of us.

Please do your research and contact whomever you wish if you so desire. However, don't be surprised at the dead end you come to. Did it ever occur to you that the reason many people use screen names on this BB is because they do not want their identity known.

Your best bet is to grow up, stop acting petulant and spend your time learning from the posts that others have made on this BB. There is some good information here, presented by some good and knowledgeable people, and I assume the reason you joined this BB was to acquire that type information, not to play Sherlock Holmes or be shunned by the other members.

However, if you want to play detective, be my guest. Just remember, you are responsible for your actions and any ramifications that may ensue.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Feb 11, 2012 02:59PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-11 13:25, Tony45 wrote:

[...] or when you figure out that your johnson is used for something besides peeing with. [...]
[/quote]
I knew poetry was possible on the Gambling Post.
Message: Posted by: iamslow (Feb 11, 2012 03:47PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-11 09:51, jerome96114 wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-02-11 02:28, Tony45 wrote:
Cag, don't waste your time on this kid. He probably stands in front of his bathroom mirror for a half hour and pops the zits off his face before he goes to school in the morning, on the short bus that is.
[/quote]

Well ... actually I go to university and study, but now that you feel the need to try to insult me PROBABLY I actually should try to find out who holds the copyright on this, and see where it takes this place ...
[/quote]


Its the world cop... somebody call 9-1-1... I think blackeagle has revealed himself... :applause:
Message: Posted by: M for Magic (Feb 11, 2012 08:42PM)
Alvin Clarence Thomas aka Titanic Thompson lost the copyright for this material to Cag in a bet.
Case closed. :)
Message: Posted by: tommy (Feb 11, 2012 11:09PM)
I have never seen so much fish.
Message: Posted by: Tony45 (Feb 12, 2012 05:20AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-11 16:47, iamslow wrote:

Its the world cop... somebody call 9-1-1... I think blackeagle has revealed himself... :applause:
[/quote]

You know something ? Youre probably right ! Wouldnt surprise me if it was Kid Dunsky after all, lol.