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Topic: Paradox
Message: Posted by: landmark (Sep 1, 2011 07:18AM)
I see that the President agreed to postpone his important speech on the economy so that it wouldn't conflict with the Republican presidential candidates' debate. How did he expect to be in two places at once?
Message: Posted by: Destiny (Sep 1, 2011 07:46AM)
:)
Message: Posted by: Woland (Sep 1, 2011 12:12PM)
But not so important that he would have had to postpone his vacation for it . . . .
Message: Posted by: NicholasD (Sep 1, 2011 02:33PM)
Were he and his staff so stunningly incompetent that they didn't realize there would be a conflict?
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Sep 1, 2011 02:39PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-01 15:33, NicholasD wrote:
Were he and his staff so stunningly incompetent that they didn't realize there would be a conflict?
[/quote]

Or were they so stunningly competent to realize that the feint would make the Republicans look petty, after which they could just go ahead and schedule it the next day JUST BEFORE the first NFL game, thus guaranteeing a large viewership?

Seems like the Reps didn't see the rope-a-dope.

Good thoughts,

Bob
Message: Posted by: NicholasD (Sep 1, 2011 02:45PM)
Actually, I thought it made the Republicans look stronger. Boehner's no-nonsense refusal of the President's invitation was exactly the correct response. Proving again Obama's lack of experience.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Sep 1, 2011 02:50PM)
His no-nonsense refusal? His staff initially agreed to the date, then he did an about face and said that the 7th was no good because they wouldn't have time to do a security sweep of the House chamber. Once again showing Boehner's inability to give a straight answer.
Message: Posted by: NicholasD (Sep 1, 2011 02:57PM)
Probably just letting Obama save face.
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (Sep 1, 2011 03:06PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-01 15:33, NicholasD wrote:
Were he and his staff so stunningly incompetent that they didn't realize there would be a conflict?
[/quote]

Almost certainly not.
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Sep 1, 2011 03:35PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-01 15:33, NicholasD wrote:
Were he and his staff so stunningly incompetent that they didn't realize there would be a conflict?
[/quote]

They were so busy changing his birth documents and covering up his Hajj that it slipped right by.

John
Message: Posted by: Woland (Sep 1, 2011 04:51PM)
Well, landmark, it seems that we all missed the biting satire of your original comment.
Message: Posted by: NicholasD (Sep 1, 2011 05:52PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-01 16:06, LobowolfXXX wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-09-01 15:33, NicholasD wrote:
Were he and his staff so stunningly incompetent that they didn't realize there would be a conflict?
[/quote]

Almost certainly not.
[/quote]

Obama wants co-operation from the right. If, in fact he did it on purpose, that makes him look even worse.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Sep 1, 2011 09:14PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-01 17:51, Woland wrote:
Well, landmark, it seems that we all missed the biting satire of your original comment.
[/quote]
Satire is what closes on Saturday night as the man said, I guess.
Welcome back.
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (Sep 1, 2011 09:23PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-01 17:51, Woland wrote:
Well, landmark, it seems that we all missed the biting satire of your original comment.
[/quote]

I caught it...it wasn't bad.
Message: Posted by: Woland (Sep 2, 2011 04:40AM)
Thanks, landmark.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Sep 2, 2011 05:57AM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-01 22:23, LobowolfXXX wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-09-01 17:51, Woland wrote:
Well, landmark, it seems that we all missed the biting satire of your original comment.
[/quote]

I caught it...it wasn't bad.
[/quote]
Hmm . . . the soft bigotry of low expectations.
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (Sep 2, 2011 09:25AM)
The other way 'round, actually.
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Sep 2, 2011 09:51AM)
Awww. Big hugs!
Message: Posted by: Kevin Ridgeway (Sep 2, 2011 10:05AM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-01 15:50, mastermindreader wrote:
His no-nonsense refusal? His staff initially agreed to the date, then he did an about face and said that the 7th was no good because they wouldn't have time to do a security sweep of the House chamber. Once again showing Boehner's inability to give a straight answer.
[/quote]

Seriously? Please don't tell me the Secret Service is as incompetent as Obama is. They don't have enough time to do a security sweep? Are they taking as much vacation time as Obama is?
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Sep 2, 2011 10:18AM)
Is Obama taking too much vacation time? Here's what [url=http://www.factcheck.org/2010/01/president-obamas-vacation-days/]factcheck.org[/url] says:

[quote]President Obama has spent all or part of 26 days "on vacation" during his first year as president, according to CBS News White House Correspondent Mark Knoller.

Knoller, who has covered every president since Gerald Ford and is known for keeping detailed records on presidential travel, counts the following among President Obama¡¯s "vacations" in 2009:

*A four-day holiday weekend in Chicago in February where the president played some basketball and treated First Lady Michelle Obama to a Valentine¡¯s Day dinner date.
* An eight-day stay with his family at a rented house on Martha¡¯s Vineyard in August.
* A trip out west to the U.S. states of Montana, Wyoming, Colorado and Arizona that combined both business and pleasure. The president held town hall meetings on health care during the trip. And he went fly fishing and took trips to Yellowstone National Park and the Grand Canyon with his wife and two daughters.
* An 11-day stay in Hawaii where the president and his family celebrated Christmas and New Year¡¯s Eve.
Some of the president¡¯s recent predecessors, however, have spent more days ¡ª either entirely or partially ¡ª away from the White House "on vacation" during their first year in office.

President Reagan, in 1981, spent all or part of 42 days away from the White House "on vacation" at his home in Santa Barbara, Calif, according to Knoller. President Reagan and his wife, Nancy, also spent three or four days around New Year¡¯s Day each year in Palm Springs, Calif., at the home of philanthropist Walter Annenberg. (In 1993 the late Mr. Annenberg founded the nonpartisan Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania, which is FactCheck.org¡¯s parent organization.)

President George W. Bush spent even more time away from the presidential mansion in the nation¡¯s capital than Reagan. Of the 77 total "vacation" trips the former president made to his Texas ranch while in office, nine of them ¡ª all or part of 69 days ¡ª came during his first year as president in 2001, according to Knoller.

Bush¡¯s father, President George H.W. Bush, spent less time "on vacation" during his first year than his son, but spent more days than President Obama. According to travel records provided to FactCheck.org by the George Bush Presidential Library and Museum, the former president took six trips ¡ª spanning all or part of 40 days ¡ª to the Bush family compound in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1989. The archivist at Bush¡¯s presidential library told us she didn¡¯t have a list of all vacations but did have the Kennebunkport visits.

But at least two recent presidents ¡ª by Knoller¡¯s count ¡ª took less "vacation" time during their first year than President Obama ¡ª Presidents Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.

According to Knoller, Carter spent just 19 days "on vacation" in 1977. Most of that time, Knoller says, the former president spent at his home in Plains, Ga. President Clinton took all or part of 174 days of vacation during his eight years as president ¡ª most of that "vacation" time was during the summer, according to Knoller. But Knoller says Clinton only took 21 "vacation" days during his first year.

It¡¯s worth mentioning that President Obama has also made 11 trips ¡ª all or part of 27 days ¡ª to Camp David, the presidential retreat in Frederick County, Md. Knoller, however, says he doesn¡¯t count trips to Camp David as part of any presidents¡¯ "vacation" time. But for the sake of comparison, President George W. Bush, made more trips to that country residence than Obama. According to Knoller, Bush made 25 trips ¡ª a total of 78 days ¡ª to Camp David in 2001.

But no matter how much time a president actually spends away from the official residence at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., Knoller says that the commander in chief is never really off the clock. "I have long held the view that a US president is never really on vacation," Knoller told FactCheck.org in an e-mail. "The job ¨C and its awesome powers and responsibilities ¨C is his wherever he is and whatever he¡¯s doing."
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (Sep 2, 2011 10:43AM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-02 11:05, Living Illusions wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-09-01 15:50, mastermindreader wrote:
His no-nonsense refusal? His staff initially agreed to the date, then he did an about face and said that the 7th was no good because they wouldn't have time to do a security sweep of the House chamber. Once again showing Boehner's inability to give a straight answer.
[/quote]

Seriously? Please don't tell me the Secret Service is as incompetent as Obama is. They don't have enough time to do a security sweep? Are they taking as much vacation time as Obama is?
[/quote]

what goes into a security sweep? Is it a quick process? A one-and-done?
Message: Posted by: critter (Sep 2, 2011 10:52AM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-02 11:18, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Is Obama taking too much vacation time? Here's what [url=http://www.factcheck.org/2010/01/president-obamas-vacation-days/]factcheck.org[/url] says:

[quote]President Obama has spent all or part of 26 days "on vacation" during his first year as president, according to CBS News White House Correspondent Mark Knoller.

Knoller, who has covered every president since Gerald Ford and is known for keeping detailed records on presidential travel, counts the following among President Obama¡¯s "vacations" in 2009:

*A four-day holiday weekend in Chicago in February where the president played some basketball and treated First Lady Michelle Obama to a Valentine¡¯s Day dinner date.
* An eight-day stay with his family at a rented house on Martha¡¯s Vineyard in August.
* A trip out west to the U.S. states of Montana, Wyoming, Colorado and Arizona that combined both business and pleasure. The president held town hall meetings on health care during the trip. And he went fly fishing and took trips to Yellowstone National Park and the Grand Canyon with his wife and two daughters.
* An 11-day stay in Hawaii where the president and his family celebrated Christmas and New Year¡¯s Eve.
Some of the president¡¯s recent predecessors, however, have spent more days ¡ª either entirely or partially ¡ª away from the White House "on vacation" during their first year in office.

President Reagan, in 1981, spent all or part of 42 days away from the White House "on vacation" at his home in Santa Barbara, Calif, according to Knoller. President Reagan and his wife, Nancy, also spent three or four days around New Year¡¯s Day each year in Palm Springs, Calif., at the home of philanthropist Walter Annenberg. (In 1993 the late Mr. Annenberg founded the nonpartisan Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania, which is FactCheck.org¡¯s parent organization.)

President George W. Bush spent even more time away from the presidential mansion in the nation¡¯s capital than Reagan. Of the 77 total "vacation" trips the former president made to his Texas ranch while in office, nine of them ¡ª all or part of 69 days ¡ª came during his first year as president in 2001, according to Knoller.

Bush¡¯s father, President George H.W. Bush, spent less time "on vacation" during his first year than his son, but spent more days than President Obama. According to travel records provided to FactCheck.org by the George Bush Presidential Library and Museum, the former president took six trips ¡ª spanning all or part of 40 days ¡ª to the Bush family compound in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1989. The archivist at Bush¡¯s presidential library told us she didn¡¯t have a list of all vacations but did have the Kennebunkport visits.

But at least two recent presidents ¡ª by Knoller¡¯s count ¡ª took less "vacation" time during their first year than President Obama ¡ª Presidents Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.

According to Knoller, Carter spent just 19 days "on vacation" in 1977. Most of that time, Knoller says, the former president spent at his home in Plains, Ga. President Clinton took all or part of 174 days of vacation during his eight years as president ¡ª most of that "vacation" time was during the summer, according to Knoller. But Knoller says Clinton only took 21 "vacation" days during his first year.

It¡¯s worth mentioning that President Obama has also made 11 trips ¡ª all or part of 27 days ¡ª to Camp David, the presidential retreat in Frederick County, Md. Knoller, however, says he doesn¡¯t count trips to Camp David as part of any presidents¡¯ "vacation" time. But for the sake of comparison, President George W. Bush, made more trips to that country residence than Obama. According to Knoller, Bush made 25 trips ¡ª a total of 78 days ¡ª to Camp David in 2001.

But no matter how much time a president actually spends away from the official residence at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., Knoller says that the commander in chief is never really off the clock. "I have long held the view that a US president is never really on vacation," Knoller told FactCheck.org in an e-mail. "The job ¨C and its awesome powers and responsibilities ¨C is his wherever he is and whatever he¡¯s doing."
[/quote]
[/quote]

I'm glad [i]you[/i] said it.
Another case of "It's okay if my guy does it more often, but if their guy does it at all he's bad, bad President! No Freedom Fries for you!"
I think one of the things I hate the most about politics and political "debate" is the hypocrisy.
These conversations are so pointless because, most of the time, the only difference between one person's bad guy and good guy is party affiliation.
Message: Posted by: Kevin Ridgeway (Sep 2, 2011 12:25PM)
Critter...actually the thing I despise the most is grading on a curve. They are all bad right now. There is no need to compare any current administration to a past administration. I grade them on on how THEY are doing NOW. I am critical of things Bush did, Clinton did, etc...on their own accord, not in comparison to another president.

What I do find interesting is the decision to respond to the vacation part...but not the incompetent part. That speaks volumes.
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (Sep 2, 2011 12:29PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-02 13:25, Living Illusions wrote:
What I do find interesting is the decision to respond to the vacation part...but not the incompetent part. That speaks volumes.
[/quote]

It's more clearly, concisely, and convincingly addressed. We can talk all day long about what constitutes "competence," or speculate about what motivated the decision, but counting vacation days is simple and (relatively) objective.
Message: Posted by: critter (Sep 2, 2011 12:36PM)
Bingo! Hard to respond to a catch-all term, easier to respond to the quantifiable one.
Message: Posted by: Kevin Ridgeway (Sep 2, 2011 12:43PM)
You're right it may be hard to accurately describe competence...but incompetence is quite obvious. I doubt history will have a hard time telling the difference.
Message: Posted by: critter (Sep 2, 2011 01:35PM)
One would think. But it seems that history has been sugar coating the bad done by Presidents after they are finished lately. Heck, even Nixon got popular again long after the fact.
We seldom remember that the "golden" years were made of pyrite.
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Sep 2, 2011 02:24PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-02 14:35, critter wrote:
Heck, even Nixon got popular again long after the fact.
[/quote]

It didn't take very long. In 1978 I was out drinking with a college wrestling team from California (I have long forgotten which college) after a tournament in Calgary. Somehow the talk got to politics and I was shocked by our guests' forceful conviction that the only thing Nixon did wrong was to get caught. I thought college kids were supposed to be idealistic.

John
Message: Posted by: tommy (Sep 2, 2011 03:11PM)
He who has folk tongue can speak in two places at once