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Topic: Most quarded secrets in magic today?
Message: Posted by: Magic-Daniel (Sep 2, 2011 07:25PM)
Hi guys.

What are some of the most quarded secrets in magic today? David Berglass has just released his work on ACAAN, which he held back for many, many years.
Armando Lucero also seems very protected about his work, although I think some of his methods are known. But I'm guessing he is holding some of his strongest stuff.
I'm also guessing a magician like Tamariz has some stuff hes holding very close to himself or a close few.

Are there still some closely quarded secrets held back in magic?

Daniel
Message: Posted by: panlives (Sep 2, 2011 11:11PM)
No.
None.
None at all
: )
Message: Posted by: fortasse (Sep 3, 2011 12:01AM)
Ditto.
Message: Posted by: billappleton (Sep 3, 2011 07:29AM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-02 20:25, Magic-Daniel wrote:
David Berglass has just released his work on ACAAN, which he held back for many, many years.
[/quote]

Can someone point me to this? I can't find anything real.
Message: Posted by: magicians (Sep 3, 2011 08:00AM)
The problem with a secret that is held back is that it becomes a puzzle and a challenge and spurs solution methods which are wrong or right and that does not matter. If no-one can contest the method, then the secret solution is as good as the actual method.
Even effects that are available to buy have reverse engineering with bad solutions. They sometimes become a commercial product.

Once the effect is performed: if held back, someone will covet it and try to emulate it.

I have a few methods I am "holding back", but only a few people really care.
Message: Posted by: pabloinus (Sep 3, 2011 09:29AM)
Maybe where did Copperfield hide the Statue of Liberty, when he made it vanished? :)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 3, 2011 04:11PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-02 20:25, Magic-Daniel wrote:
Hi guys.

What are some of the most quarded secrets in magic today? David Berglass has just released his work on ACAAN, which he held back for many, many years.
Armando Lucero also seems very protected about his work, although I think some of his methods are known. But I'm guessing he is holding some of his strongest stuff.
I'm also guessing a magician like Tamariz has some stuff hes holding very close to himself or a close few.

Are there still some closely quarded secrets held back in magic?

Daniel
[/quote]

Daniel:

I hate to say this, but to be blunt, with the blatant disregard you seem to have for secrecy, as evidenced here: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=431928&forum=115&4, you are very unlikely to even hear of what they are.

The most closely guarded secret I know of is the Hooker Card Rise.

All I know about it is this: there is more than one thing going on here.
Message: Posted by: Dr_J_Ayala (Sep 3, 2011 05:56PM)
Among the most closely guarded secrets of the art:

Magic as performed by Indians - and no, I am not referring to Native Americans.
The real work on making magic truly magical - very few can do it
and...
The Hooker Card Rise, as mentioned by Bill above.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Sep 3, 2011 05:58PM)
The best way to keep a secret is to NOT TELL ANYONE you have a secret!
Message: Posted by: magicians (Sep 3, 2011 06:49PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-03 10:29, pabloinus wrote:
Maybe where did Copperfield hide the Statue of Liberty, when he made it vanished? :)
[/quote]
He paid off Brooklyn to look the other way while he hid it in Jersey.
Message: Posted by: djkuttdecks (Sep 3, 2011 08:43PM)
Guys! You're making this tooooo hard. The best guarded secret in magic is "how to make money... and lots of it"

It's a heck of a trick!

-Lee
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Sep 4, 2011 12:14AM)
Also the best way too keep guard a secret? Put it in print;)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 4, 2011 12:23AM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-03 10:29, pabloinus wrote:
Maybe where did Copperfield hide the Statue of Liberty, when he made it vanished? :)
[/quote]

That's actually been revealed in a mass market book.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 4, 2011 12:25AM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-03 08:29, billappleton wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-09-02 20:25, Magic-Daniel wrote:
David Berglass has just released his work on ACAAN, which he held back for many, many years.
[/quote]

Can someone point me to this? I can't find anything real.
[/quote]

Go to Genii Forum. There is a book out that covers how he actually does it.

I will not go into any specifics here, but suffice it to say that you have to be a very convincing performer to pull it off.
Message: Posted by: Ekuth (Sep 12, 2011 06:03PM)
Ummmm... if they are secrets, should they not *stay* secret?

IMHO, the OP smacks of fishing for methods.

...

Or, I could just ditto what Bill said.
Message: Posted by: Sir Richard (Sep 12, 2011 06:37PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-03 21:43, djkuttdecks wrote:
Guys! You're making this tooooo hard. The best guarded secret in magic is "how to make money... and lots of it"

It's a heck of a trick!

-Lee
[/quote]Here! Here!
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Sep 12, 2011 07:44PM)
[b]I can't tell you.[/b] :kermit:
Message: Posted by: walid ahumada (Sep 12, 2011 09:57PM)
Indian Rope Trick. (Although diverse accounts of the trick have appeared in print, I believe the original one did not exist)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 13, 2011 03:15AM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-03 21:43, djkuttdecks wrote:
Guys! You're making this tooooo hard. The best guarded secret in magic is "how to make money... and lots of it"

It's a heck of a trick!

-Lee
[/quote]

It's like the difference between a magician and a large pizza.

A large pizza can feed a family of four.
Message: Posted by: pepka (Sep 13, 2011 04:16AM)
With the internet and a credit card, you can really discover almost any secret.
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Sep 13, 2011 09:24AM)
The most closely guarded secret in magic?

Simple........

It's how to truly ENTERTAIN people and get repeat bookings!
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 13, 2011 09:47AM)
That's actually not true at all. It's been well-documented. However, nobody who does magic seems to be able to put the concepts of entertainment and magic together...except for a handful of performers.

The rest ignore the books and go around pinching material, thinking that if you say the same words and try to do the same tricks as the fellows who do entertain people and do get repeat bookings, that you will have the same results. They never seem to understand that it's not the words or the tricks -- it's how you say them and do them.

The problem with the average magician is exactly that.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 13, 2011 10:20AM)
BTW, evidently one of the most closely quarded (sic) secrets in magic is the difference between a q and a g. ;)
Message: Posted by: ringmaster (Sep 13, 2011 10:25AM)
It's not a great way to pick up girls.
Message: Posted by: bblumen (Sep 13, 2011 10:28AM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-13 11:20, Bill Palmer wrote:
BTW, evidently one of the most closely quarded (sic) secrets in magic is the difference between a q and a g. ;)
[/quote]


Bravo!


Brian
Message: Posted by: Dr_J_Ayala (Sep 13, 2011 12:13PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-13 11:20, Bill Palmer wrote:
BTW, evidently one of the most closely quarded (sic) secrets in magic is the difference between a q and a g. ;)
[/quote]

:applause: :applause: :applause:
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Sep 13, 2011 12:46PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-13 11:20, Bill Palmer wrote:
BTW, evidently one of the most closely quarded (sic) secrets in magic is the difference between a q and a g. ;)
[/quote]

I'm qlad someone else noticed this.
Message: Posted by: Ekuth (Sep 13, 2011 12:47PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-13 11:20, Bill Palmer wrote:
BTW, evidently one of the most closely quarded (sic) secrets in magic is the difference between a q and a g. ;)
[/quote]

QFT.
Message: Posted by: randirain (Sep 13, 2011 02:54PM)
What about the 'Devils Harem' illusion?
No one does that, no one knows how it works, no one really knows how it goes..
Total Mystery.

Randi
Message: Posted by: sleightly (Sep 15, 2011 12:39PM)
Wow. Was that the "Devils Harem" piece that was featured by the Bouton brothers? I perform periodically in an opera house in northern New Hampshire and this piece was mentioned in the local paper. I have been trying to get more information on it for years!

ajp
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 15, 2011 12:47PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-13 15:54, randirain wrote:
What about the 'Devils Harem' illusion?
No one does that, no one knows how it works, no one really knows how it goes..
Total Mystery.

Randi
[/quote]

First, you need a goat. Then you need a full moon, preferrably by one of the Kardashian sisters. ;)
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Sep 15, 2011 02:17PM)
Three people can keep a secret, as long as two of them are dead. That was posted by a friend of mine on Face Book.
Message: Posted by: randirain (Sep 15, 2011 05:57PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-15 13:47, Bill Palmer wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-09-13 15:54, randirain wrote:
What about the 'Devils Harem' illusion?
No one does that, no one knows how it works, no one really knows how it goes..
Total Mystery.

Randi
[/quote]

First, you need a goat. Then you need a full moon, preferrably by one of the Kardashian sisters. ;)
[/quote]

See.. That just proves it.
Bill really knows the secret to the Hooker Card Rise and to the Devil's Harem, he's just not going to tell us.
That's alright. See if we care.

Randi
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Sep 15, 2011 06:42PM)
Actually the "Devil's Harem" is a classic of early stage magic almost forgotten. It was published once in an obscure Polish magic book. The book was thought lost when the German's burned the Prague Library in the early 1940's. The Russian magician Igor Kio actually found the partially burned but rescued book when he was entertaining the occupying Red army shortly after the Russians repatriated Poland.

Kio managed to stage the illusion just once but stated that it was just too complicated and too demanding to ever try again. I believe that one of the assistants lost her legs in that presentation. Melbourne Christopher documented this and was going to include it in his second book on the History of Magic. Unfortunately the manuscript was never completed.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 16, 2011 04:47AM)
That's a better trick than you know. Prague isn't in Poland. It's in the Czech Republic.
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Sep 16, 2011 05:29AM)
The book was published in Poland; the only known existing copy at the time was in the Prague Library’s special collection section which was open to serious scholars only. Several unique, one-of-a-kind books and manuscripts (and a scroll or two) were lost or believed lost in that fire. A couple of them have turned up in collections over the decades. Perhaps the library was looted prior to being burned or perhaps the fire was not as total as reported.

I don't remember how Kio came across his copy. I only got to speed read the Christopher mss. once.

The discription of the illusion was unbeliveable!
Message: Posted by: Tim Dowd (Sep 18, 2011 12:39AM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-16 06:29, Harry Murphy wrote:

The discription of the illusion was unbeliveable!
[/quote]

Don't believe you... :)
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Sep 18, 2011 05:56AM)
Yeah I know, it is a convoluted tale of a trick.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 18, 2011 11:15AM)
Seriously, one of the most guarded secrets in magic was the Vanek Decapitation Illusion. This was done with an audience volunteer, without any kind of cabinetry, etc. It was quite realistic.

And, no, Nikola Tesla had nothing to do with it! ;)
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Sep 18, 2011 11:49AM)
Bill, are you referring to Joseph Vanek (1818-1889)and his illusion where he aparently removed the head of a person (spectator?) and walked away from the body with it? That had to be one heck of an illusion.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 19, 2011 01:01PM)
Yes. There is a fellow who is a member here who wanted me to do a book about Vanek, but I'm basically a translator, not an author. The press releases are impressive. His grandkids still have the illusion.
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Sep 19, 2011 01:17PM)
I'd love to see someone perform that one! Heck, I love to just photos of the apparatus!
Message: Posted by: Dr_J_Ayala (Sep 19, 2011 10:22PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-19 14:01, Bill Palmer wrote:
Yes. There is a fellow who is a member here who wanted me to do a book about Vanek, but I'm basically a translator, not an author. The press releases are impressive. His grandkids still have the illusion.
[/quote]

That would be an impressive thing to see!
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Sep 26, 2011 01:31PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-15 13:47, Bill Palmer wrote:
...you need a full moon, preferably by one of the Kardashian sisters. ;)
[/quote]

Ha! I saw that moon in March of this year! It supposedly was the largest moon since...(?) I always appreciate the lunar "ass"ets of Kim Kardashian! Bravo!

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program...

Doug
Message: Posted by: Swann101 (Sep 27, 2011 06:54AM)
Ya, Andre Cole copied Vanek's idea when he created the sliding head illusion...:)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 29, 2011 12:06PM)
No, he didn't. You haven't seen Vanek's idea. Neither has Andre Kole.

Vanek's idea was done openly.
Message: Posted by: Dr_J_Ayala (Sep 29, 2011 03:22PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-27 07:54, Swann101 wrote:
Ya, Andre Cole copied Vanek's idea when he created the sliding head illusion...:)
[/quote]

Not even close...
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 30, 2011 12:27AM)
When Kole "created" the sliding head illusion, his influence was closer to Gene de Jean than Vanek. Nobody over here had seen Vanek.
Message: Posted by: spcarlson (Sep 30, 2011 12:52AM)
Penn and Teller, interestingly enough, have a number of very strong effects they hold very close.

Teller's Rose Trick is one good example.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Oct 3, 2011 10:51PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-18 01:39, Tim Dowd wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-09-16 06:29, Harry Murphy wrote:

The discription of the illusion was unbeliveable!
[/quote]

Don't believe you... :)
[/quote]

Hey, that was funny!!!!
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Oct 3, 2011 10:53PM)
Tyler's Silken Saga. 'Nuff said.