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Topic: Which Spring Flowers are best?
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Sep 5, 2011 05:51AM)
There are different manufactures of the Spring Flower. Some come in paper. Some are mylar. Which manufacture makes the best quality, looking Spring Flowers?
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Sep 5, 2011 06:57AM)
Dynamike,

After all these years and all the "improvements" made to the productions, my first choice is still the tissue paper type spring flower. Among other things, they also do not create some of the light flash problems of the shiny ones. People can also understand that they are flowers versus something they can't identify.

The very best ones have "leaves" that are made of bookbinding material that is very durable and can bend and stay flat without damage.

Unfortunately, even good spring flowers have to be considered consumables that must be replaced from time to time for a working magician. (Therefore, separating them and giving away single flowers to the ladies from time to time is a great second use for them. It is not rare to see the ladies wearing them in there hair at your next show!)

They add surprise, color and magic to the show. I like them as a production.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Sep 5, 2011 08:02AM)
Of the ones I have come across, in my opinion, currently Fun Inc. spring flowers are good.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Sep 5, 2011 08:21AM)
Thanks guys. I happen to notice the following Bill mentioned in a different thread:

http://www.eastcoastmagic.com/flfrfisi.html They look realistic because of the designs. I never seen silk ones before. I wonder how good the quality is. I think they come with a holder too. It does not read how many come in the package, probably only one.

http://www.seomagic-usa.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/31/products_id/553 They are wide. It helps out with visibility. But they are kind of pricey. The holders are sold separate.

Anyone had any experience with any of those yet?
Message: Posted by: Darkwing (Sep 5, 2011 10:57AM)
Dynamike, good to see you again. I have the ones from ECM and like them a lot. They do look like flowers and are not bad in the handling. The holder is a little less that desirable but with a little modification will be fine.

I do like the looks of the SEO flowers and will probably buy some.

The big problem I have with buying spring flowers and producing them as a bouquet is there are just too many colors and not enough greenery. I would like to find supplier that would have lots of greenery and all one color of the flowers. That is the way the Buatier de Kolta orginally did the production and to me looks more natural.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Sep 5, 2011 12:02PM)
I have not yet purchased the silk flowers. I like the way they look in the photo, more like real flowers that you can get at the dollar store.

I do have the double paper flowers and really like the way you can make them seem to bloom from the fingers. They open really wide and it looks good to me.

As for a holder I found one at Daytona Magic. I like this type as it is better then the Vernet, and the gimmick goes with the last flower so you are left clean.
Here: http://www.daytonamagic.com/products/SPRING-FLOWER-HOLDER-%252d-SET-OF-2.html whey they say they are made by Vernet, I don't know, they are not made by Vernet, they are from Asia, Japan or China. I have posted previously on this holder, it is the best for Flowers from Fingertips.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Sep 5, 2011 05:04PM)
Thanks Darkwing. It is good to see you again too. I will purchase the silk ones tomorrow.
[quote]
On 2011-09-05 13:02, wmhegbli wrote:
As for a holder I found one at Daytona Magic. I like this type as it is better then the Vernet, and the gimmick goes with the last flower so you are left clean.
Here: http://www.daytonamagic.com/products/SPRING-FLOWER-HOLDER-%252d-SET-OF-2.html whey they say they are made by Vernet, I don't know, they are not made by Vernet, they are from Asia, Japan or China.
[/quote]
Bill, I want to make sure we are on the right track. Are you saying the link you shown above is the ones that can be released with the last flower? If so, can it be dropped to the floor with the last flower without any noise distraction? If so, I will for sure purchase it.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Sep 5, 2011 10:26PM)
Yes the gimmick attaches to the last flower. The 2nd to last flower only has that little clip on the end. That flower releases the final flower. They are light weight plastic, so noise would not be an issue. I would not let the flowers drop to the floor, I always drop them in a container, but that is me. I would say they would not be noticed or noisy, because of the way the double flower opens out and curves over.

I do not know if they will work with the silk flowers, I only have them on my double million flowers, and they work great.

I like this design because of the above arrangement, it is kind of an automatic release.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Sep 5, 2011 10:58PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-05 11:57, Darkwing wrote:


The big problem I have with buying spring flowers and producing them as a bouquet is there are just too many colors and not enough greenery. I would like to find supplier that would have lots of greenery and all one color of the flowers. That is the way the Buatier de Kolta orginally did the production and to me looks more natural.
[/quote]

You beat me to it! :)
Message: Posted by: David Charvet (Sep 5, 2011 11:35PM)
I spoke to Greg Bordner at Abbotts' about making custom spring flowers - all one color - and they can do it.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Sep 6, 2011 10:28AM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-05 11:57, Darkwing wrote:
I have the ones from ECM and like them a lot. They do look like flowers and are not bad in the handling.
[/quote]
How many come in a package?
Message: Posted by: Darkwing (Sep 6, 2011 03:09PM)
Dynamike,

Eight to a package.

David
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Sep 6, 2011 04:21PM)
Thanks buddy.
Message: Posted by: Darkwing (Sep 7, 2011 03:51PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-06 17:21, Dynamike wrote:
Thanks buddy.
[/quote]

My pleasure. Anytime my friend.

David
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Sep 8, 2011 12:20PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-05 23:26, wmhegbli wrote:
The 2nd to last flower only has that little clip on the end. That flower releases the final flower.
[/quote]
I received mine today. I would not have understood how to put on the clip if you did not describe it. I like them. Very clever idea. I am practicing with it by using Vernet's Spring Flowers.

It will take two or weeks until the type of double flowers I want come in. They are making them in Japan at this moment. Once shipped to the magic shop in USA, they will notify me.

I ordered the silk flowers too. I also ordered JB's Manipulation Bills. But this time I wanted the manipulation paper to be blank. I will print flower designs on the blank paper myself. So instead of making bills appear, I will be making paper with floral designs appear.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Sep 8, 2011 02:54PM)
Dynamike, glad I could help!

Would like a review of the Silk Flowers when you get them, do they fold flat? The picture looks great of these, but it does not seem like they would close well.

Hope the flower idea on paper idea works for you. I read once Norm Nielsen had playing cards that looked like sheet music. He discarded the idea after experimenting.

Scott Cervin does a torn sheet music to playing card size pieces of sheet music. Sort of the same idea as Norm Nielsen, but Scott Cervin uses it in his award winning act.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Sep 15, 2011 10:43AM)
I received the silk flowers today. Yes they do fold flat. But not at flat as the paper ones. I am able to get 15 Velnet/Uday blooms in the special holder. I can only get 7 of the silky flowers in the special holder. The first of the seven is hard to get out because of the tightness. Another reason it is harder to get the first few out of the special holder is because of the material the green outside leaves are made of. I can not tell if it is a thick paper or plastic material. The springs are wider. But the springs do not spring out as wide as the paper flowers. That will be a big plus if they did. The silky flowers look slightly bigger in person than they look on the internet image.

But no problem. All eight silky flowers do fit comfortably in their own holder. The same idea can be done with the silky flower as it is done with the special flower, tape one to the back, but without the clip. Their holder is little plastic as the special holder. And it matches the green as the silky flowers leaves.

I really like the silky flowers. They look realistic and beautiful. It is easy to perform. If you have small hands, it will be hard to hide. I just wish they has a spring that bent out wider because it will show a fuller bloom.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Sep 15, 2011 11:36AM)
Try the old standard method of restoring a spring flower, with a round dowell or pencil, lightly draw the leaf over the pencil while holding the leaf against the pencil with the thumb. It is the way women or wrapping paper experts curl some ribbon on gift packages.

This move will cause the leaf to curl over/out more.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Sep 15, 2011 11:39AM)
My bad. I see what my problem is. When folded right, the flowers will bloom fully during appearance. At first when I was closing the flowers, I was putting the excess inside. That was wrong. First close the flower. Wrap the excess around to the back of the leaves. When opened, the excess is already outside making a full bloom. The first way I described, the excess stays in the middle, not making a full bloom. I noticed that I was opening one of my additional packs.

Bill, the special holder measurement we have is 1/2 thick. The silky flower holder is 3/4 thick to hold 8 flowers.

The instructions are terrible to read because of the printing. It seems to have been printed a 1,000 times. Most of the letters are not clear. It seems like reading foreign language.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Sep 15, 2011 12:02PM)
Thanks Dynamike for your excellent review and opinion on the cloth flowers. I will get some in the near future.

Sorry that the holder is not working with the cloth flowers, but the hobby shop or Ace Hardware sells hobby metal. Easy to buy some brass and bend to fit the cloth flowers. Tin snips and a pliers and it is ready for prime time. Cover with paint or floral tape.

Maybe East Coast Magic can supply better instructions, it is his item he is supplying. Dealers these days, they just complain, I can't inspect every order and yet they will not fix what they are responsible for in the 1st place.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Sep 18, 2011 03:02AM)
The magic shop called me today telling me the Double Flowers are in stock. I should be receiving my order in a few days.
Message: Posted by: Rolf Reiner (Sep 18, 2011 03:38AM)
Darkwing, I believe that by contacting Seo-san at Seo Magic you will be able to have them special order green flowers.
Mr. Seo is very approachable and will perfectly understand your need, and if possible help you out.
RR
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Sep 22, 2011 10:43PM)
I did receive my Double Flowers today. They are made with excellent quality. Now I see why they are more expensive than others.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Sep 26, 2011 06:59AM)
Dynamike, which do you perfer the Double Flowers or the Silk Flowers? I would be interested in your opinion.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Sep 26, 2011 10:52AM)
Good question. In my magic show act I am putting together a flower act where I will be using both of them. Before I knew about the 2 Special Flowers I was going to use regular Spring Flowers. By thinking like a magician, of course I know what a Spring Flower is. I was going to represent it easier to a regular audience by acting like I am plucking a petal from one of my Feather Flowers and go from there. Presently in my act I will make the Silk Flowers appear first. I bet the audience will understand the Double Flowers more from seeing the Silk Flowers first.

Which one of the 2 Special Flowers are...

...easier to manipulate: The Double Spring Flowers. They slide out easier. The excess silk from the Silk Flowers slow them down. Another thing making the Silk Flowers less easy to manipulate is holding the large untrimmed bulk in your hand. The silk over lap the outsides when they are folded in unequal areas. It will take a little practice to get used to it.

...best in quality: The Double Spring Flowers. The flowers and instructions seemed as if they were made in USA (but were not). The Silk Flowers seem like they were made in India (but were not).

...more realistic looking: The Silk Flowers. Up close or far away the beauty would stick out more to a regular audience.

...able to take more accidental abuse: The Silk flowers. If accidentally stepped on, There will be a great chance to get them back in shape. If the Double Flowers were stepped on accidentally, the odds will be low getting them back in shape.

...able to stay in their holders longer keeping their spring strength: The Double Flowers. I noticed all Regular Spring Flowers never lose their spring strength no matter how long they are in a holder. I did notice a difference in the Silk Flowers spring strength as I was taking them out of the holder as I was about to practice while watching the Detroit Lions football game Sunday. The spring strength was not as strong as before. I would not consider they are wearing out because I practice with them so many times the last two weeks. It might be from the abuse of keeping them in my pocket so long in and out of the holder as I traveled places and practicing when I reach my location. Or it could be from keeping them in the holder for 24 hours after many times of practice. Or it could be from rolling on them in bed as I fell asleep while practicing with them. But no problem, I use the curl method to get the springs back in original shape again.

Personally, if I was able to use only one of the flowers in my act, I would prefer the Silk Flowers. It is because of the realistic and beauty looks hands down. What is MOST IMPORTANT is the presentation. I can perform the Silk Flowers in a easy manner with enough practice (stealing a bulky load, quicker movement with the thumb so the flowers will rise easier, covering up the bulk in the hand).
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Sep 26, 2011 10:59AM)
Nice review Dynamike. Which would you say is the most durable in the long run. That is which will give the most shows before having to be replaced (or is it too early to tell?)?
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Sep 26, 2011 11:28AM)
If they were both treated perfectly, (no abuse, no water, no dropping to the floor, no direct sunlight, etc) used only for daily performances, I bet the Double Flowers will last longer. I see no reason for safe daily performances wearing down the Double Flowers. But the Silk Flowers have loose threads around it. I bet it will take a long time for the threads to start fringing from being used daily.

But accidents can happen. The Silk Flowers can take more abuse and accidents (water spills, floor droppings, direct sunlight, sat on, humility, bites from a pet, etc).
Message: Posted by: sebastienparis (Mar 29, 2017 04:34PM)
Hello
This post is really interesting
I do not find ON DAYTONA magic website the holder
Do they always sell it?

Regards
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Mar 29, 2017 10:35PM)
[quote]On Mar 29, 2017, sebastienparis wrote:
Hello
This post is really interesting
I do not find ON DAYTONA magic website the holder
Do they always sell it?

Regards [/quote]
They call it Spring Flower Holder.

https://www.daytonamagic.com/spring-flower-holder-set-of-2-g-076.html