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Topic: Head or tails
Message: Posted by: ROBERT BLAKE (Sep 13, 2003 05:10AM)
I want to flip a coin in the air - a spectator calls "head or tails" - and when I open my hand the spectator is right.

Does someone from you knows how to accomplish this with "sleight of hand" and not with double side coins? :spinningcoin:
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Sep 13, 2003 06:40AM)
I do this, using a fake flip which appears to be legitimate. The coin is actually in a parabolic spin and appears to be flipping.

I'm sure this doesn't help you much as it's impossible for me to explain how to do it without showing you personally. I don't know if it's in print, because I learned it personally from another magician 30 years ago. Maybe someone else can help.

Larry D.
Message: Posted by: Mike Powers (Sep 13, 2003 10:16AM)
If you catch it on the palm of your right hand and then flip it onto the back of your left hand as is customary, you can learn to spot its orientation on the right palm and then either flip it clean which ends with the other side showing or perform a fake flip over which doesn't reverse the coin.

Mike
Message: Posted by: Elwood (Sep 13, 2003 12:50PM)
I do a reverse version of this where I genuinely flip the coin, catch it and call heads or tails. I'm right every time, no peeks or glimpses required.
Message: Posted by: Mike Powers (Sep 13, 2003 01:24PM)
It would be fun to flip a double headed coin about 6 times and call it heads each time. Then switch for double tailed coin when someone asks to see it. It also might be fun to claim to be able to call it and be WRONG EVERY TIME. The probability of being wrong every time is the same as being right every time, it's just funnier to be wrong every time.

Mike
Message: Posted by: djvirtualreality (Sep 13, 2003 02:00PM)
[quote]
On 2003-09-13 07:40, Larry Davidson wrote:
I do this, using a fake flip which appears to be legitimate. The coin is actually in a parabolic spin and appears to be flipping.



Larry D.
[/quote]
I think Michal Ammar does this in his complete intro to coin magic (doesn't teach it)
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Sep 13, 2003 02:20PM)
[quote]
On 2003-09-13 14:24, Mike Powers wrote:
It would be fun to flip a double headed coin about 6 times and call it heads each time. Then switch for double tailed coin when someone asks to see it.
[/quote]

I used to do something very similar.

I'd show the heads and then the tails side of a regular quarter, and explain that I could flip it so that it landed on heads every time. I'd then secretly do the pseudo flip move using the parabolic spin technique, and the coin would land on heads every time.

I'd then switch the coin for a two-tailed coin, form the spectator's hand in a flip position, place the coin on top of his thumb readying it for a flip, and bet that he couldn't flip the coin so that it landed heads up. I'd let the spectator try twice (I ditched the regular quarter long ago) and then explain that he couldn't flip the coin heads up like I did because the quarter didn't have a heads side.

Larry D.
Message: Posted by: Musashi (Sep 14, 2003 02:09AM)
[quote]
On 2003-09-13 13:50, Elwood wrote:
I do a reverse version of this where I genuinely flip the coin, catch it and call heads or tails. I'm right every time, no peeks or glimpses required.
[/quote]
I do something like this....grab a silver dollar, practice with it...if you feel like it.

:rolleyes:

Josh
Message: Posted by: Elwood (Sep 14, 2003 11:01AM)
;)
Message: Posted by: Dark Magician (Sep 14, 2003 11:08AM)
Well, if you slow down the speed in which you are flipping, you can see the coin land in your palm. If they call tails and it's heads, flip it to your left hand, and if they are correct, do nothing
Message: Posted by: Magix (Sep 14, 2003 01:33PM)
[quote]
On 2003-09-13 07:40, Larry Davidson wrote:
I do this, using a fake flip which appears to be legitimate. The coin is actually in a parabolic spin and appears to be flipping.

I'm sure this doesn't help you much as it's impossible for me to explain how to do it without showing you personally. I don't know if it's in print, because I learned it personally from another magician 30 years ago. Maybe someone else can help.

Larry D.
[/quote]

It is in print. I think the book where I learned it is called World's Best Coin Tricks. Here's a link for you -

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0806986611/102-0493790-9114533?v=glance#product-details

Hope this helps.
Message: Posted by: carla (Sep 14, 2003 04:53PM)
I don't know what kind of coins you would like to use, but I find when I flip a half dollar and catch it in my palm with my fingers closed over it, I can tell by the feel under my fingertips whether it is heads up or tails up in my palm. Try this. If it matches what the spectator called, just open your palm. If not, flip it over on to the back of your other hand as in a "normal" coin toss.
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Sep 14, 2003 05:05PM)
In my opinion, which is based on my experience performing the effect many times for laymen, the most effective presentation requires that you flip the coin without looking at it and that you [b]immediately[/b] show the side it has landed on, or laymen may rightly guess that you looked at or felt the coin. The parabolic spin is the only method I know of that fits the bill (no pun intended).

Larry D.
Message: Posted by: Paul Chosse (Sep 14, 2003 05:06PM)
[quote]
On 2003-09-13 07:40, Larry Davidson wrote:
I do this, using a fake flip which appears to be legitimate. The coin is actually in a parabolic spin and appears to be flipping.

I'm sure this doesn't help you much as it's impossible for me to explain how to do it without showing you personally. I don't know if it's in print, because I learned it personally from another magician 30 years ago. Maybe someone else can help.

Larry D.
[/quote]

Larry,

This first appeared in print in either a Sphinx or a Genii magazine from the late '20's or early '30's. It was invented/developed by Jack McMillen. I have a proper write-up in my files, as well as a copy of the original article, and will post it, if/when I can dig it out.

Jack had several methods of controlling or predicting the outcome of a coin flip that were quite clever. Here's another: Stick a coin on your wrist (about where you would wear your watch) with the head side showing. Use a double tailed quarter for the flip. Toss the coin in the air and if the spectator calls heads, catch the DT on the back of your left hand, showing tails. You win! If, on the other hand (no pun intended), he calls tails, then you "shoot" your arm out of your sleeve, timing it so that your right hand covers the coin stuck to the back of your left wrist as the wrist comes into view. When you lift your right hand you carry the DT with you, and reveal the coin that shows heads, stuck on the back of your wrist. You win!

Another slieght-of-hand method is similar to the paddle move. You toss the coin and catch it in the right hand, peeking the side that is up. As you slap it on the left hand you allow it to turn over as you normally would, if the side you want to show is next to your palm, or you drop your right hand down quickly, and turn it palm down over the coin in mid-air, continuing the downward motion, to complete slapping the coin on the back of the left hand if the side you want is facing you. This second move (not very well described, I'll admit, but you should get it - if not let me know and I'll try again, in more detail) is a distant cousin to the well-known "paddle move", and is easy to do and very deceptive.

If you are doing this as a bet, there is an old dodge that covers you, in this sense: you never lose, and you often win! Here's how: Use a Double-Tailed coin. Do the toss, and if they call heads show the coin and collect your bet. If they call tails, catch the coin as it is falling and drop it in your pocket, saying: "Just wanted to see if you were a betting man!". This dismisses the bet, as if it were a joke.

There are several other controlled tosses that I can detail eventually, but for now, this should get your brain going...

Best, PSC
Message: Posted by: Dan LeFay (Sep 14, 2003 05:08PM)
I remember something written about this in Richard's Almanac. Think Larry Jennings and Persi Diaconis were mentioned.
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Sep 14, 2003 05:31PM)
Pchosse, thanks for the education!

I personally am not a fan of the peek method, because of the delay, and subscribe to the parabolic method because it avoids that problem, you can borrow a coin, etc.

I'm interested in whatever else you dig up, and thanks again!

Larry D.

P.S. - Based on this as well as many of your other posts, it sounds like Jack McMillen was incredibly prolific.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Sep 15, 2003 12:11AM)
Professor Persi Diaconis was written up last year, just before the Super Bowl, for his ability to flip a coin to come up how he wants it about 99-precent of the time. :spinningcoin:
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Sep 15, 2003 07:09AM)
Pete, I don't believe he can do that 99% of the time. I do believe he can do it 100% of the time, that is if he flips coins like he deals cards. :baby:

Larry D.
Message: Posted by: Paul Chosse (Sep 15, 2003 12:44PM)
[quote]
On 2003-09-14 18:31, Larry Davidson wrote:
Pchosse, thanks for the education!

I personally am not a fan of the peek method, because of the delay, and subscribe to the parabolic method because it avoids that problem, you can borrow a coin, etc.

I'm interested in whatever else you dig up, and thanks again!

Larry D.

P.S. - Based on this as well as many of your other posts, it sounds like Jack McMillen was incredibly prolific.
[/quote]

In fact, Jack was remarkably prolific. He put lots in print in magazines, had a set of lecture notes, and some material appeared in Greater Magic and ECT. Charlie Miller used to mention things in his Magicana column, and other folks have included Jack's material in their books. He worked on a book of his own for the last several years of his life, and all of that material is in my possession. With any luck it will see print some day soon.

Jack was born in 1911, and was a lifelong friend of Charlie Miller's. They knew each other from their teens on. He was close to Vernon, and T.Page Wright, and Bill Larsen. Through the years the parade of people in Jack's life included every well known cardman of the 20th century. Ron Bauer, Steve Freeman, Persi Diaconis, Ricky Jay, Mike Skinner, Larry Jennings, Bruce Cervon, Matt Corin, Mel Brown, Vic Kirk, the list is endless. You can imagine that with those kinds of associations, and over 60 years in magic, Jack would have a pretty good background. He was a quiet, unassuming man, though, and so he was not in the public eye in the same way that other magicians were/are. Still, he contributed much, and is fondly remembered by those who knew him.

Best, PSC
Message: Posted by: MxJoKeR (Sep 20, 2003 09:28PM)
The best way I know of is to catch it with your hand closed and feel which is on your finger tips. The tails are usually quite a bit rougher than the heads. If you want the felt side up just turn hand over if you want the other side up let it rest on your fingers and spin hand open to show it. It works way better and is a lot easier than any other way. Try it out and PM me with questions
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Sep 22, 2003 11:10AM)
[quote]
On 2003-09-20 22:28, MxJoKeR wrote:
...It works way better and is alot easier than any other way...
[/quote]

My recommendation is to use whatever method is the most effective, not the method that's the easiest.

If you can't feel the coin a split second after it has landed and IMMEDIATELY show it (and I don't know how anyone could do that), you've armed the audience with a plausible explanation which the parabolic method avoids. Your experience may differ, but that's been my experience performing the effect using numerous methods including those that involve delays (versus the parabolic method which allows an immediate show).

Regards, Larry D.
Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Sep 22, 2003 03:40PM)
Never thought about fliping without a sleight and the two gaffs.

There are old gambling coins for spinning (on a table top) that have heads and tails on each coin. They come in a set of two. One always lands heads up after the spin, and one always lands tail up after the spin. They are not double headed or double tailed coins though, they look legit. I have seen a set of silver quarters myself. I only know of one set of spinners that is still available and that is a nickle set.

Might be cool to incorporate spinners in a no gaff flip routine.....just to get the one two punch. :spinningcoin:
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Sep 22, 2003 04:36PM)
In [b][i]The Amateur Magician's Handbook[/i][/b] Henry Hay discusses this. His suggestion is a simple one: practice till you can flip the coin exactly the same way every time.

Simple enough.

;)
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Sep 23, 2003 10:23AM)
Hmmm, and is Henry Hay's recommendation for center dealing to "use your favorite method?" :baby:
Message: Posted by: RiffClown (Sep 23, 2003 12:58PM)
I use [url=http://riff.eubankrs.net/TestaCroce-Take-OneSM.mpe
]TestaCroce[/url] and have extremely good control of the outcome even when it's contrary to what the spec would think. :spinningcoin:
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Sep 24, 2003 08:27PM)
Rob, but that's a turnover, not a coin flip in the air.
Message: Posted by: RiffClown (Sep 25, 2003 12:52PM)
Point Taken.
Message: Posted by: ehands (Aug 21, 2006 10:44AM)
[quote]
If you are doing this as a bet, there is an old dodge that covers you, in this sense: you never lose, and you often win! Here's how: Use a Double-Tailed coin. . . . There are several other controlled tosses that I can detail eventually, but for now, this should get your brain going...[/quote]

Bobby Knuckles explains several bets using DS'd coins along with other card and coin scams in "Beat 'em, Cheat'em, Leave'em Bleedin." I bought my copy from Bruce Walstad following a wonderful lecture at SEAM on Carnival Scams.