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Topic: The Dark Side Of Poker by Dworschak Michael
Message: Posted by: popcalinda (Jan 15, 2012 08:43AM)
Any info about this book:


http://www.spielsucht-forum.de/die-dunkle-seite-des-poker-betrug-methode-und-erkennung/
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Jan 15, 2012 03:28PM)
Can you supply an English version of the book's description? Unfortunatley I don't read German and doubt that most on this board do.

I would be interested in reading what was described.
Message: Posted by: uhrenschmied (Jan 15, 2012 04:40PM)
I think the book is only available in German.
However, you can judge his second dealing skills here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gprPjx0Fro

Since you do not understand German the babbling will not distract you *g*

Regards,
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Jan 15, 2012 05:41PM)
[quote]
Since you do not understand German the babbling will not distract you [/quote]
The babbling did not distract me but the German did. I was trying to catch the babble words in between the German words but it all went right over my head. LOL

Seriously though, is there any way to get an English description or translation as to the contents of this book. The gentleman is evidently a magician or demonstrator of gambling moves so I am only asking out to curiosity. All these books and DVDs seem to be rehashes of what has been exosed over and over again ad nauseum. I was curious to see if the Germans had anything new or innovative to offer in this regard.

Here is an interesting aside, in my younger days I owned two Mercedes, two BMWs and two Porsches, not all at the same time of course, but over the years, so I know the Germans are innovative, industrious and build good products. However,I seem to have been huge up on the number "two" in this instance. Is there a subliminal or subconcious message in my attachment with the number "two" or any relationship to the "2s" being dealt on the video?

Come to think of it,I had two children.

Hmmm. This all can't be coincidence, can it?
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Jan 15, 2012 05:58PM)
[quote]
All these books and DVDs seem to be rehashes of what has been exosed over and over again ad nauseum.
[/quote]
You summed it up perfectly...
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Jan 16, 2012 11:35AM)
I haven't been here for a while, but someone pointed this thread out to me.

Do "the Germans" have anything new to offer on second dealing? No.

Is this guy's second deal any good in the video Uhrenshmied linked to? Yes. I wish I could do it at 10% of what he does.

Is this all a rehash? Uh...have Steve's or Arnold's books been released in German? No. A German language book on cheating is a perfectly marketable concept. Or should one master a foreign language before even attempting a second deal?

Cut the guy some slack: he can handle cards, and he's publishing something for the German market. More power to him. I might buy the book just to tickle the sales figures.
Message: Posted by: splice (Jan 17, 2012 06:51AM)
Arnold Snyder's books must have been translated to German, but I don't know that they have anything on second dealing in them.
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Jan 17, 2012 09:06AM)
Stone,

There have been at least a few books on cheating released in German. Look for [i]Abgezockt[/i] (1996) by Peps Zoller and [i]Korrigiertes Gluck[/i] (1954) by Allan Sprung. Both are fairly easy to locate via online bookseller searches.

Jason
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Jan 17, 2012 11:35AM)
Thanks Jason.

Still, my point--one which it might be difficult to grasp if you live outside Germany--is that the poker boom has really hit big time. Back when I wanted to start a private poker game six or seven years ago, you couldn't even buy poker chips. Now you can buy poker chips at every supermarket, five and dime, toy store, gas station, whatever. Add in this year's WSOP winner and you've got a recipe for a "new" market: not a market for those of use who own thousands of dollars worth of this kind of material, but a market for people who don't know a second deal from a muck from a shiner. So if some guy wants to tap into this relatively new market, more power to him. I wish him success.

In the meanwhile, I ordered the book and it will arrive tomorrow. I'll post a review as soon as I have time, but it might be a while before I have time. No one hold their breath. But I'll do it.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Jan 19, 2012 03:48AM)
Got the book yesterday, and took a very quick look at it in the bathtub this morning. Well, I was in the bathtub, not the book. I held it above the water. But that's not important.

The book is very short and has lots of pictures. I'd guess it clocks in at around 20 to 30 thousand words, which makes it more a long pamphlet than a book. The pictures are very nice. Kind of reminds me of the La Paul book.

I started by looking at the recommended reading list in the back. Forte's work is there, along with Erdnase and a few other fundamental texts; but no Sal or Jason or Richard Turner. A pretty short list, IMHO.

It's obviously aimed neither at magicians nor other card handling specialists, but at Joe Average (or should I say Hans Durschnitt) who might be playing at the corner bar or a local casino and is a complete noob with regard to how one might cheat him.

It covers the basics of doubles and bottoms and so on and so on.

All in all, a nice easy effort that would be of little interest to any of you unless you want it for your collection, but which seems to succeed in serving the purpose of introduction some basics to the German market at large.

After I actually get around to reading the book (for yes, I had other things to do in the bathtub this morning) I will let y'all know if there is something new that I haven't seen before.
Message: Posted by: Tony45 (Jan 19, 2012 05:07AM)
[quote]
On 2012-01-19 04:48, stoneunhinged wrote:
After I actually get around to reading the book (for yes, I had other things to do in the bathtub this morning) I will let y'all know if there is something new that I haven't seen before.
[/quote]
If you see anything new in the bathtub you better check the pipes ! :)
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Jan 19, 2012 10:44AM)
Well, if I could get my pipes cleaned more than once a year, I might not spend so much time in the bathtub.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Jan 19, 2012 01:55PM)
[quote]
On 2012-01-17 12:35, stoneunhinged wrote:

Still, my point--one which it might be difficult to grasp if you live outside Germany--is that the poker boom has really hit big time. [/quote]
Would appreciate a a little more information on the German market.

Are the poker games in this expansion primarily games in casinos and/or in professionally run card rooms? If so, do you have some idea of how may casinos or professional card room there may be at this time in Germany?

Further, do these games use a center dealer or do the players shuffle, cut and deal themselves?
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Jan 19, 2012 04:46PM)
Cagliostro, I don't know the answer to your questions. I have no statistics. Sorry.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Jan 19, 2012 05:53PM)
[quote]
On 2012-01-19 04:48, stoneunhinged wrote:
Got the book yesterday, and took a very quick look at it in the bathtub this morning. Well, I was in the bathtub, not the book. I held it above the water.[/quote]
Thanks for the clarification. I initially though you took a bath wearing a snorkel to get complete water coverage. LOL

[quote]It's obviously aimed neither at magicians nor other card handling specialists, but at Joe Average (or should I say Hans Durschnitt) who might be playing at the corner bar or a local casino and is a complete noob with regard to how one might cheat him.[/quote]
For the average player, IMHO a book aimed at Joe Average is of more value than a very complete compendium like Forte’s Poker Protection. Forte’s book was mostly gobbled up by card table aficionados, magicians with a gambling demonstrator vent, protection people, very serious poker players who have a desire to learn as much about cheating as they can and, let us not forget, card cheaters who wanted to see if it contained an additional angle for them to use.

As good and relatively complete and detailed as Forte’s book is, for the average Joe it would be overwhelming and most card players would not spring for the hefty price. It is really not “average” card player friendly and it is more than most players really want. (It is somewhat like the old saying, “The book taught me everything about the subject but more than I really wanted to know.”

Based upon your description, Durschnitt’s book probably has more commercial value. It may be somewhat like George Joseph’s book on Poker Cheating, aimed at the commercial market. It might do quite well but for a short book, based upon you commentary, it should have more references in case the average player wishes to go further with DVDs or other books on the subject.

The only danger to a book of this nature is it might give unknowledgeable players a false sense of confidence in their ability to detect cheating.
Message: Posted by: uhrenschmied (Jan 20, 2012 11:28AM)
[quote]
On 2012-01-19 14:55, Cagliostro wrote:

Would appreciate a a little more information on the German market.

Are the poker games in this expansion primarily games in casinos and/or in professionally run card rooms? If so, do you have some idea of how may casinos or professional card room there may be at this time in Germany?

Further, do these games use a center dealer or do the players shuffle, cut and deal themselves?
[/quote]


Some time ago I did some research into the subject. To my best knowledge the information below is accurate.

As far as I know there are 54 Casinos in Germany, however not all of them offer Poker.

In Germany Poker is defined as a game of chance. The only legal place to play is a casino. For tournaments sometimes the casino licence is extended to other facilities, like a large ballroom. These extensions are only for an event, not permanent. So, no card rooms.

Poker tournaments outside of casinos are only allowed if the buyin is not above a certain amount - 25 Euro as far as I know. The winner is only allowed to receive a non-cash reward.

Online Poker is illegal unless the poker site is licensed by the German government. I have no idea if there is such a site. However, this law seems not to be enforced. Advertisements of Poker sites are seen in TV, a German entertainer, Stefan Raab, hosts a sponsored event every year that is broadcasted live.

Poker with your friends at home is legal, but the definition of friend might be questioned if the game is busted for some reason. Private games at a public place are only allowed if no money is involved.

Regards,
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Jan 20, 2012 07:19PM)
Thanks uhrenschmied for your input on the German poker scene.

It seems like poker in Germany is somewhat in the developmental or initial stages at this point and in some respects behind other European countries and the US at this time.

Unless I am mistaken, the German government appears to be somewhat of a hindrance to the development of poker’s full potential.

Perhaps continued demand will foster further progress in this area.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Jan 21, 2012 10:36AM)
I spent some time with the book this morning. Gotta change one or two observations.

First, there is a lot less text than I had estimated. There are so many pictures (but good ones) that I'd say this really is nothing more than a pamphlet with pictures.

Second, it is [i]really[/i] basic stuff. The first section is on peeking--which I hadn't realized in the bathtub, both because I was unfamiliar with the German term for peeking and because, being in the bathtub, peeking was the last thing on my mind.

Perhaps more later. Perhaps not. We'll see.