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Topic: Which cups to get?
Message: Posted by: leomagnus (Jan 29, 2012 07:10PM)
Hey everyone,

I'm looking to buy a set of cups and balls, and I want to get nice ones. Price is no object if they'll last forever. They need to be big enough to play well in a parlor/stand-up situation, but not look huge and/or out of place in a close up situation. As for style, I'd like them to have more of a Paul Fox look than a classic shape. No chop cups. All advice is appreciated. Thanks.

-Leo
Message: Posted by: Woland (Jan 29, 2012 07:56PM)
Brett Sherwood gold & silver.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Jan 29, 2012 07:59PM)
I use the Sherwood smooth coppers and couldn't be happier.
Message: Posted by: RevJohn (Jan 29, 2012 08:03PM)
I have a set of Engraved Gold and Silver, as well as Engraved Copper... both are really nice, and I love using them.

I still am a fan of the Foxy 3's, though it is a combo set, so out of your limitations. But I love these, and they hold special meaning for me.

RevJohn
Message: Posted by: leomagnus (Jan 29, 2012 08:07PM)
The Sherwood cups look sweet. Definitely worth consideration. Do you think that the Tommy Wonder Two cup routine would work with these?
Thanks.

-Leo
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 29, 2012 09:17PM)
Read Tommy's routine. The answer is in the book. The only obstacle will be making the proper size pompons.

Remember, NOBODY can select your cups for you. They have to fit YOUR hands.

I like the Sherwoods a lot.

[quote]
Price is no object if they'll last forever.
[/quote]

They are not made of armor plate. They are made of copper, brass, silver or aluminum. Nothing is guaranteed to last forever. However, the Sherwood cups will outlast you if you don't throw them, drop them on concrete, stomp on them or run over them in your Hummer.

My personal recommendation would be to get a set of copper or brass Sherwoods. If they work out for you, and you like them as much as I do, then treat yourself to a set of the engraved silver ones.
Message: Posted by: yin_howe (Jan 30, 2012 03:51AM)
If Price is not an issue and you want to do the Tommy Wonder routine, you might want to check out AUke Van Dokkum's site. He makes the bags & pom-pom etc.

http://www.cupsandballs.nl/
Message: Posted by: volto (Jan 30, 2012 04:51AM)
Another happy Sherwood user here. I won't bore everyone by repeating all the reasons why - simply put, they work really, really well (for me) for lots of moves, and the shape makes the final load(s) look more impressive.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 30, 2012 08:40AM)
Yin Howe is right about the Van Dokkum cups. If you want to do Tommy's routine, it's hard to beat these cups, because they come with EVERYTHING you need to do the routine. They are made of either brass or stainless steel. The stainless ones are built like tanks. The brass ones are also quite durable.

Auke makes the Tommy Wonder cups with permission of Tommy's estate. You can also order a third matching cup if you want to be able to do a traditional three cup routine.
Message: Posted by: leomagnus (Jan 30, 2012 01:15PM)
Thanks so much for the feed back. I'll probably get the Sherwood cups and make the pom-poms and bag myself.
Cheers

-Leo
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Jan 30, 2012 01:16PM)
[quote]
On 2012-01-30 14:15, leomagnus wrote:
Thanks so much for the feed back. I'll probably get the Sherwood cups and make the pom-poms and bag myself.
Cheers

-Leo
[/quote]

Good luck with that :lol:
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 30, 2012 11:40PM)
That's a pretty tall order.
Message: Posted by: pepka (Jan 30, 2012 11:50PM)
My favorite cups I've ever owned are Sherwood coppers and Riser standards. They are just the ones that fit my hands best and handle best for my situations.
Message: Posted by: leomagnus (Jan 31, 2012 02:43PM)
[quote]
On 2012-01-31 00:40, Bill Palmer wrote:
That's a pretty tall order.
[/quote]

Yeah well, I think I've got everything for it except the attachment for the large pom-pom. Any ideas for how to get the necessary supplies?

-Leo
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Jan 31, 2012 03:00PM)
Have you considered mini rare earth magnets? Magnets seem to have replaced many such attachment mechanisms in the recent years. I'm not near my books and I don't recall if Tommy used these or some other attachment or even if they were available when he came up with his routine.
Message: Posted by: Eric Evans (Jan 31, 2012 03:32PM)
Tommy used something akin to necklace clasps. The kind that screw together (like a mini rope gimmick). A jewelry supply would carry a suitable clasp.

A magnet might cause problems. Plus, the clasp, if examined, would seem more miraculous for the fact that it came unattached, as Tommy would go through the motions of screwing it firmly in place prior to its disappearance.
Message: Posted by: leomagnus (Jan 31, 2012 03:34PM)
[quote]
On 2012-01-31 16:00, Dave V wrote:
Have you considered mini rare earth magnets? Magnets seem to have replaced many such attachment mechanisms in the recent years. I'm not near my books and I don't recall if Tommy used these or some other attachment or even if they were available when he came up with his routine.
[/quote]

I thought about using magnets which would be a lot easier, but in the routine, the pom-pom has to look like it screws on. Also with magnets, there would be a risk of the pom-pom attaching to bag accidentally. This would of course ruin the st**l.

-Leo
Message: Posted by: leomagnus (Jan 31, 2012 04:14PM)
[quote]
On 2012-01-31 16:32, Eric Evans wrote:
Tommy used something akin to necklace clasps. The kind that screw together (like a mini rope gimmick). A jewelry supply would carry a suitable clasp.

A magnet might cause problems. Plus, the clasp, if examined, would seem more miraculous for the fact that it came unattached, as Tommy would go through the motions of screwing it firmly in place prior to its disappearance.
[/quote]

Agreed.

-Leo
Message: Posted by: yin_howe (Jan 31, 2012 10:04PM)
[quote]
On 2012-01-31 15:43, leomagnus wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-01-31 00:40, Bill Palmer wrote:
That's a pretty tall order.
[/quote]

Yeah well, I think I've got everything for it except the attachment for the large pom-pom. Any ideas for how to get the necessary supplies?

-Leo
[/quote]

I think it's called the Tarbell Gimmick, not too sure if I remember correctly.

I also believe the cups and pom poms need to be of a certain size for the spectator to feel 1 ball on their hand. (I don't have the Books of Wonder, and this is only from my memory of what I have been told)
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Feb 1, 2012 01:36PM)
Good points regarding magnets. I forgot that he openly screwed the pom pom on and off.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Feb 1, 2012 01:38PM)
Perhaps you can just use a tiny nut and bolt?
Message: Posted by: leomagnus (Feb 1, 2012 02:53PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-01 14:38, Pete Biro wrote:
Perhaps you can just use a tiny nut and bolt?
[/quote]

That's an idea. Will look into it.

-Leo
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Feb 1, 2012 04:14PM)
Is this what you're looking for?
[img]http://www.bjcraftsupplies.com/jewelryFindings/images/clasps/barrel1920-26.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Feb 1, 2012 04:37PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-01 17:14, Dave V wrote:
Is this what you're looking for?
[img]http://www.bjcraftsupplies.com/jewelryFindings/images/clasps/barrel1920-26.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

You can get them at almost any Micheals or other arts & crafts store.
Message: Posted by: leomagnus (Feb 1, 2012 08:16PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-01 17:14, Dave V wrote:
Is this what you're looking for?
[img]http://www.bjcraftsupplies.com/jewelryFindings/images/clasps/barrel1920-26.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Looks pretty good.
Message: Posted by: leomagnus (Feb 4, 2012 03:03PM)
Well, 3 hours later, pom-pom #1 has been made. On to pom-pom #2.(sigh)
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Feb 4, 2012 05:50PM)
Considering a nominal hourly wage, what do you suppose the cost of a set would be?
Message: Posted by: leomagnus (Feb 4, 2012 09:28PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-04 18:50, Dave V wrote:
Considering a nominal hourly wage, what do you suppose the cost of a set would be?
[/quote]

Honestly, the complete process for making EACH pom-pom is around 4 hours long. The big pom-pom for the bag will likely take longer on account of the threaded nut or attachment being rolled into the pom-pom, as well as the larger volume of material(say 5 hours). The Bag will take about 5 hours to knit by hand. Considering that Minimum wage is about $9 per hour, we get:

3 small pom-poms...........$108
1 big pom-pom..............$45
Bag........................$45
Material costs.............$25(ish)


Total: $223+price of buying the cups themselves(Say Sherwood cups, that's an extra $300 at least)

Making a set yourself would cost maybe $30+cups+around 24 hours of work.

If you're interested, when I'm done making my set, I MIGHT consider selling a set of pom-poms with or without the bag. I'd probably charge around $200 for everything minus the cups, and about $100 for a set of 3 small pom-poms. Not sure if I'd want to do it again even for money though. Auke van Dokkum sells a complete set including two cups for around $520. ITS A LOT OF WORK!!

-Leo
Message: Posted by: leomagnus (Feb 4, 2012 09:31PM)
4 hours later pom-pom #2 is finished! On to #3.(sigh..........................) :(
Message: Posted by: leomagnus (Feb 10, 2012 12:28AM)
Finally done with pom-pom #3. Now for the big pom-pom and....THE BAG!!!
Message: Posted by: Tony Thomas (Feb 10, 2012 06:15AM)
Good job. Looking forward to seeing some pictures of your work.
Message: Posted by: leomagnus (Feb 10, 2012 11:23PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-10 07:15, Tony Thomas wrote:
Good job. Looking forward to seeing some pictures of your work.
[/quote]

Will do!

-Leo
Message: Posted by: leomagnus (Feb 20, 2012 11:21PM)
The big pom-pom is finally done, now for the bag! Pics coming soon.
Message: Posted by: leomagnus (Feb 21, 2012 01:59PM)
Finally, after over 24 hours of solid work, the full set is done. I'll post a separate thread with pictures. Never again.
YAY!!!!

-Leo