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Topic: No Place for the Newbie !!!
Message: Posted by: insidetheeye (Jan 31, 2012 10:19AM)
As I am slowing starting to interact with magicians both on and off the Internet. I keep getting warnings about this forum if you’re newbie. As I read along some of the older posts on here I see a lot of real mean users on here some with huge inflated egos some just looking for a fight..

I was at a local magic shop here in the GTA and the owner even rolled his eyes “they can be vicious” on that forum be careful.. some other chaps I spoke to said the same thing.. more warnings..

In less than a few weeks one user emailed me and told me to ignore one user, some other guy told me to avoid posting questions all together and just use the search engine.. It’s unfortunate really it's a well made site.. But I tend to agree with the rumors .. not the best place if you want to learn from the pros..

To be honest I am somewhat scared off this site..
Message: Posted by: Ed_Millis (Jan 31, 2012 10:43AM)
Hmmm - there's almost 50,000 other registered users that might disagree with you.

Look at it this way: you've just entered a room filled with other people. They all have opinions and they all have egos. Some are nicer than others, and soem make rude comments and mean jokes. And there are the few that are bullies and provokers of conflict.

That describes basically any social situation where you have not yet integrated yourself into the community: high school or college campus, a friend's party, a nightclub or bar, the local arcade, and yes some internet forums.

There are some people here who tend to make pests of themselves. That's why every post has the "Report This Post" link on the top bar. Do not be afraid to use it!!

And do not be afraid to scroll through the forums and find people whom you do like and think you can converse with. Shoot them a PM and tell them you're going to start a discussion thread and you'd really appreciate their response.

As far as egos and strong opinions: many surmise that these are almost required if you're going to become a successful entertainer. And the successful ones - the "pros" - are the ones we come here to interact with so we can learn. Even the nice ones have their hot buttons, and even the gruff ones have a world of wisdom they're willing to share.

Ed
Message: Posted by: MagicDr (Jan 31, 2012 11:08AM)
[quote]
On 2012-01-31 11:19, insidetheeye wrote:
As I am slowing starting to interact with magicians both on and off the Internet. I keep getting warnings about this forum if you’re newbie. As I read along some of the older posts on here I see a lot of real mean users on here some with huge inflated egos some just looking for a fight..

I was at a local magic shop here in the GTA and the owner even rolled his eyes “they can be vicious” on that forum be careful.. some other chaps I spoke to said the same thing.. more warnings..

In less than a few weeks one user emailed me and told me to ignore one user, some other guy told me to avoid posting questions all together and just use the search engine.. It’s unfortunate really it's a well made site.. But I tend to agree with the rumors .. not the best place if you want to learn from the pros..

To be honest I am somewhat scared off this site..
[/quote]

My advice is to join a local magicians club. The internet is vast and can easily connect you with magicians from all over the world, but it will never beat the physical interaction with other magicians' if you wish to improve your craft. Check out SAM or IBM when you get the chance. Email your local chapter and ask where their meetings are held
Message: Posted by: insidetheeye (Jan 31, 2012 11:11AM)
Thanks Ed !!
Message: Posted by: djurmann (Jan 31, 2012 11:41AM)
Never had a problem, don't think I have caused too many. I don't pretend to be something I am not and always say thank you. I am always grateful if someone takes the time to share their experience. Never had the messages you had either so don't know what is going on there.

Danny
Message: Posted by: Payne (Jan 31, 2012 01:27PM)
That which does not kill us makes us stronger.
After perusing your 12 posts I don''t see any rude responses to your questions. There's one snide remark by me. But I've already PM'd you to tell you where you went wrong in phrasing that question.
A couple of people told you where to locate all the information you need on Doves. But it seems because thy didn't answer your questions directly you think they are being rude and unhelpful.
If you're going to make it in this business you're going to have to grow a thicker skin and come to the understanding that respect is earned, not given.
There is a lot to be learned here. But it takes a certain amount of effort on your part to find it. We are not obligated to simply answer your questions. Primarily, as it has already been pointed out to you, because we've answered them all before.
Message: Posted by: insidetheeye (Jan 31, 2012 01:59PM)
@ Payne -- I was talking about the site in general and the warnings and reputation of the site at least what I have heard and learned so far. --Make it in this business-- Im just a hobbyist friend asking a few questions. Is this the part where you start a fight and remind everyone about your resume Payne.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Jan 31, 2012 03:31PM)
No, the fight is long over and there is no need to remind people of my resume (as if I ever did). Just use the search feature :)
Message: Posted by: smileymcsmiley (Jan 31, 2012 03:58PM)
I find it helpful here and as a hobbyist I would say ignore the idiots and choose the forums carefully and word you questions so they are specific. Like all subcultures magic has its idiots but there are plenty of experts who I have had the pleasure of reading about and on the odd occasion them answering my questions.
On the whole I find this a great resource and mostlyeverybody seems happy to help.
Remember if you are a hobbyist like me the majority of people on this site will have a lot of information to give. I think it would be a shame if you left because of heresay about the place being bad but its up to you. Either way I wish you the best in your journey through magic.
Message: Posted by: DWRackley (Jan 31, 2012 04:15PM)
I agree with Ed (as usual). There are a lot of personalities on this site, and they dialog in many different ways. Some are gruff by nature, but that doesn’t necessarily equate to “mean”. (And some of the old-timers literally are tired of answering the same questions over and over – they should probably refrain from answering at all – but there it is.)

As for the business part, yes, there are many working professionals who come here to share their experience (and to chat among [b][i]themselves[/i][/b]). We are all (mostly) grateful for that interaction and the access to their wisdom.

BUT, if we did an actual count, there are probably FAR more amateurs and hobbyists on this site than there are pros. We still learn from each other, because we haven’t all had the same experiences. Some are more full of themselves than others, but isn’t it like that even at your school, church, or office?

I don’t know about the "thick-skinned" advice, but we do need to recognize that different people come across in different ways, and allow for that. You won’t like everybody here, and that’s ok. Stick around, and you’ll make some friends!

BTW, Welcome to the Café!
Message: Posted by: AGMagic (Jan 31, 2012 05:52PM)
Insidetheeye, We know by the number of posts you have that you are a newbie on the Café. By reading your posts we know that you are new to magic but that is all we know about you. No, you don't have to give a detailed summary of you life, but a few facts about yourself might help others understand you better.

Reading your posts, I assume that you are fairly young. This may not be the case, but that is what I see reading in between the lines. I remember what it was like feeling lost and not knowing where to find things when I first signed onto the Café, but that will no longer be a problem for you soon. As stated above, use the search engine and look through all of the topic headings to try to find the answer before asking a question that has been asked a 1000 times before.

Some perspective...the Magic profession has always had very closely guarded secrets and many are hesitant to share them openly. When I got started in Magic there was no Magic Café. There was no You Tube. There was no Internet. Television was only about 15 years old. If you wanted to learn about Magic you went to the Magic shop and plunked down your hard earned cash (Credit cards were not yet in vogue) and bought a trick or book. Some books were available at the public library but there were not very many. If you were lucky, you knew a Magician who would give you some guidance but it usually came AFTER you showed him that you were serious about learning the art. That normally meant showing him some of your effects or tricks and then asking for advice. Today, learning the secrets of Magic and getting advice is MUCH easier.

There are some very wise folks here on the Café. Some have been in magic a few months and others have been involved 50 years or more. Many have forgotten how overwhelming the list of topics can be and how frustrating it can be not knowing how to navigate the site. When you reach 50 posts you will find some areas and topics that will be unlocked for you. I secret sessions you can ask questions that should not be answered in an open forum.

Hang in there, it will get better.
Message: Posted by: Bob1Dog (Jan 31, 2012 05:54PM)
Tha Magic Café is a wonderful place for all magicians (hobbyist, part timeer, semi pro, and pro) to chat and generally enjoy the surroundings. There are many many tremendously talented and successful magicians in here to learn from. By the same token, don't expect them to give you their trade secrets. You'll get lots of help to a point, but you must also be willing to do a lot of digging yourself. I don't think you'll be disappointed with the Café if you just peruse it and let the forums take you to places you won't be able to find easily anywhere else. Folks are mighty friendly in here from my experience. Welcome to the Café and start posting!
Message: Posted by: insidetheeye (Jan 31, 2012 06:06PM)
Thank you folks.. Kind regards....
Message: Posted by: Evan Jay (Jan 31, 2012 06:36PM)
Being polite and respectful typically works well. If you get a response that is sarcastic/rude in nature, just kill them with kindness. :)
Message: Posted by: TJs Magic (Jan 31, 2012 09:14PM)
Well Guys I'm still fairly new to the Magic profession and am far from a pro or a seasoned magician, but I do perform pretty regularly. I just want everyone in this conversation know I love this forum and the temendous amount of support and guidance I have found. I personally have not found anyone to be rude or egotistical really quite the opposite.
I agree with about everyone who has chimed in on this at one point or another. Some have been very kind with wording, others mabey a bit short in there answers and some answers have come with caution if they think they see you going in the direction of a set back. I get a lot of helpfull tips but 1.People don't always write how they mean to sound. 2.I agree when asking advice sometimes we may need to maybe not be so sensative to our responses. Most hear I have found speak from experiance good,bad,or ugly. And 3. All the answers are not just given directly we have to put in the work,the practice,the money (that's what makes even the magic world go round). If anyone is thinking of avoiding this site I would strongly recommend reconsideration to many good apples to pick from to let the bad ones run you off. Good luck in your future hobby, and again I appreciate the help some of you in paticular have offerd.
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Feb 1, 2012 01:20AM)
THAT's wisdom, TJ.

BTW, I have made many friends here.
Message: Posted by: yin_howe (Feb 2, 2012 02:50AM)
We all were newbies once.

I have also found the Café members to be very helpful. Having said that, it is good to do a bit of research first.

This would be helpful
http://www.searchthemagiccafe.com
Message: Posted by: Magic Rik (Feb 5, 2012 03:23PM)
I have to say that as another new "magician" (small "m") that I have found the people here very helpful. I have no problem doing research, no problem searching the web and sometimes I jut needed a tiny nudge to find the correct pathway to start looking for my answers.

Find a local club and join it. That was excellent advice!

"Earn your spurs" as they used to say out West and you will probably be fine.

And, have fun with your magic.

Shalom!
Message: Posted by: Koolmagic114 (Feb 15, 2012 11:52AM)
I do t have a ton of posts like others. Ut I love coming in here. I do jumP into conversations to give MHO. Am always polite. Always respond to those who have been nice to me. Thank them for their time. I gave seen convoy's that have turned ugly and I ignore these and let them battle to the death. I think the majority on here want to help in ways. But you can't always expect the answer. Searching for your self is rewarding when you find it yourself. Not only that you may even find more than your looking for and hit the jackpot of info you didn't know exsisted
Message: Posted by: borderjs (Feb 15, 2012 02:24PM)
I have been reading this forum quite a bit lately. I am new to magic and have found several older threads very helpful. The only thing that concerns me about this forum is the lack of activity. It seems to have very few active users. Has it always been this way?
Message: Posted by: Ed_Millis (Feb 15, 2012 04:03PM)
Hi, borderjs. Welcome to the Magic Café! Activity comes and goes. Many of the people who post on here are active magicians - which means they have gigs to perform, practice and rehearsals, and might even spend time with their own family! Some of the sub-forums are not that active; others seem to have a new post almost every 5-10 minutes. And some are just waiting for a new person to jump in and ask some questions.

Go for it!!
Ed
Message: Posted by: Bob1Dog (Feb 15, 2012 10:46PM)
If we post good questions, we get good responses, which is something to think about.
Message: Posted by: Andy Gemini (Feb 16, 2012 05:04AM)
Hi I am fairly new here myself but I can tell you I have recieved nothing but good advice on this site whenever I have asked a question.
There are some very nice guys on here and honestly, some of them have an absolute wealth of knowledge.
IMO if you want to learn and have a question ASK!!! as it would be foolish not to take advantage of the knowledge some of these guys have.
Sure there may be some people not so helpful, but that is true wherever you live and wherever you go.
Message: Posted by: Eric the Excellent (Feb 20, 2012 10:49PM)
[quote]
On 2012-01-31 19:36, Evan Jay wrote:
Being polite and respectful typically works well. If you get a response that is sarcastic/rude in nature, just kill them with kindness. :)
[/quote]

Agreed. This works in dealing with magicians both on and offline, in my experience. I know that sometimes I get a little riled up and full of myself, dealing with others in my troupe, but I at least try to remember to keep a good perspective, and to just hope others do as well.
Message: Posted by: Bob1Dog (Feb 20, 2012 11:21PM)
Eric, you must be a great guy because I lived in Montana for four years and met my wife of forty years when she was a nursing student at the Montana Deaconess Hospital in Great Falls many moons ago. She graduated from MSU in Bozeman. I love Montana and all the great fly fishing out here. And I have great fondness for all Montanans.

And you seem quite intelligent from your post.

And I'm really only trying to help you here.

But do you think you might promote yourself better if you had a more positive avatar name?

Even if you're into bizarre stuff, which is the only conclusion I can draw, don't call yourself Awful. How about Awesome?

Since you're new to the Café, welcome aboard and never, NEVER be afraid to ask a question. And I sincerely don't mean to offend you with my comments here. You just seem too nice to call yourself Awful. best, bob
Message: Posted by: Eric the Excellent (Feb 20, 2012 11:28PM)
Hi there, Bob. My stage name is actually Eric the Excellent (usually with as many other E-words as I can talk an announcer into memorizing. Eric the exceedingly enamoring, enormously entertaining... etc.)

The reason for my last name being Awful is because I signed up on the Café well before I got into performing... and I happened to be going through an obsession with Ray Stevens at the time. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnoBTXeX8ww )

Hit me up with a PM sometime! I'm going through the nursing program at Montana Tech, so I bet we have a lot to talk about.

(And perhaps I will look into changing that avatar name...)
Message: Posted by: Bob1Dog (Feb 21, 2012 12:25AM)
Hi Eric,

I knew you were a nice chap.

And your stage name is far better! The E-words are better than the A-words, of which there are far fewer, but I think you get my meaning. Good job man.

If my wife is correct, Montana Tech is in Billngs; she still has family there. Haven't been to Billings in years, but one of these days.

Anyway, the thread started with someone who said the Café folks are an unfriendly bunch for newbies. I hope you don't believe that because as we Noo Yawkas say, "It just ain't right!"