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Topic: Looking For Rope Tie Credit
Message: Posted by: Cody S. Fisher (Feb 6, 2012 08:16PM)
I hope someone here can help me credit a rope tie method that I was shown many many years ago. I can not seem to find it anywhere in print.

Description: Your hands are held together with your wrists touching. Your volunteer places a 3 foot length of rope over your wrists and ties a simple knot. (The knot is on the bottom of the wrists) The two ends of the rope are up brought up and crossed over so they are once again hanging down. The ropes are crossed over once again and brought up once more. Finally several knots are tied so the knots are on top of the wrists.

The interesting thing about this particluar tie is that when you tie up your voluneteer first (as a demonstration) there is absolutely no way they can escape...however when they follow the same procedure to tie you up...you can easily escape. (There is only one very subtle difference in the way you are tied up compared to the way the volunteer is tied up.

From this basic description does anyone know the name of this...who it belongs to...or where it can be found in print?

Thanks in advance,
Cody S. Fisher

Please PM me with any info!
Message: Posted by: Spellbinder (Feb 6, 2012 09:30PM)
That's what I've always called the "Sandwich Tie" and it's in Qua-Fiki's "Escapes For Teens" book in the chapter on One Rope Escapes (and he demonstrates it in his video). I believe I learned it in a lecture- perhaps one by Karrell Fox, but my memory gets worse by the day so I don't trust it. I've never seen it in print, which is why I suggested that Qua-Fiki include it in his book since we teach it to the Wiz Kids, and it needs to be saved for posterity. If you ever find the original source, I'd like to know it so I can set the record straight and cite it. It's a good tie.
Message: Posted by: Cody S. Fisher (Feb 6, 2012 09:52PM)
That is certainly the one I am referring to. What makes this escape strong is when you first tie up the volunteer (with one minute difference) and they really can't escape. The person who taught me said that he "thought" it "may" have come from Karrel Fox but he wasn't sure as it was well over 20 year ago...

If anyone has any more info on this I would appreciate it!

Thanks,
Cody S. Fisher
Message: Posted by: Cody S. Fisher (Feb 7, 2012 08:16AM)
Another piece of the puzzle. My friend (who taught this to me) says that he 'thinks' that he remembers reading this in an old Houdini book that was in his school library. He said there were no pictures...just an explanation of the basic tie...one way easy to get out of...the other way (almost identical procedure) impossible to get out of. As this was well over 40 years ago his memory is 'fuzzy'...but he seems to remember something like this?

Again...any help with crediting this would be greatly appreciated.

Cody S. Fisher
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Feb 7, 2012 10:09AM)
You would have to be more specific as there are a few ties like this. First time I saw it used was as an in / out routine by Barry Walls back in the fifties. He mentioned that Scwinters (Petticoat Lane Busker) Used the same method with his feature ending (Hands tied and escape made inside a bag held by two speckies,,, he then pulled his hand out holding a glass of beer).

So where it stemmed from !!!!!! Lost in time,

Ken.
Message: Posted by: Cody S. Fisher (Feb 7, 2012 12:23PM)
Thanks for the info Ken. You mentioned there are "a few ties like this". Would you mind (if you have the info) sending to me so that I may further research this.

Thanks,
Cody S. Fisher
Message: Posted by: jay leslie (Feb 7, 2012 12:26PM)
He would Cody, but you'd have to cut his head off.
Message: Posted by: Cody S. Fisher (Feb 7, 2012 01:38PM)
Ouch! :)
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Feb 7, 2012 02:27PM)
My info is mainly like Jay says in my head,,,passed on down the line from performer to performer and as Im not the inventor or have rights to these things have NO right to pass anything on.

However there is an org (CHAINS) That has very (I mean very) Extensive escape details of just about everything escape based. Members have the right to view (Not photo copy) All there manuscripts. Can say no more about that, here.

Will add that Ken Brooke had details about Scwinters and refered to him on his audio tapes. Your best research tool is the old men who have done it and can remember....also there are many things I could demonstrate which to my knowledge have never seen print and I have no inclination to put pen to paper anymore. Magic Mag and the Ken Brooke books which I wrote for proved that such effort can be stolen so why bother,,,,remember the Amar Toppit,,, to name just one !!! Nope, I have given and lost so will never waste my time again. However if you should get an invite to C****S grab it with both hands,,,for then the world of escape will lay at your feet.

A certain entertainer has just lectured in five countries ending up in Asia, not a mention on the internet about this but the lectures were booked solid six months ago,,,this was all about escapology and thank God every last man jack of them has kept their word and the secrets kept a secret. True people, true to their magical ethics unlike the majority of magicians let loose today.

Ken.
Message: Posted by: Cody S. Fisher (Feb 7, 2012 03:45PM)
Thanks for that info Ken...I appreciate your time. I have been trying very hard to credit this for many years now and I have yet to find a single valid source. Perhaps I have one of those rare secrets that has simply been forgotten about?

Thanks to everyone...

Cody S. Fisher
Message: Posted by: jay leslie (Feb 7, 2012 06:03PM)
You could start with the Keller Tie?

If it's not that, you can rule it out.
Message: Posted by: Moxahalla (Feb 8, 2012 12:59PM)
Please see & credit the "FIGURE 8 TIE" - in Burling Hull's classic "33 Rope Ties & Chain Releases"

...its the closest tie to the above description, that I've located in the escape literature.
Message: Posted by: Harley Newman (Feb 8, 2012 04:13PM)
Figure 8 is a great tie, under certain circumstances.
Message: Posted by: Cody S. Fisher (Feb 8, 2012 07:35PM)
I just downloaded a copy of "Burling Hull's classic 33 Rope Ties & Chain Releases" from magic trick shop. The Figure 8 is nothing at all like the tie I am referring to. I sincerely appreciate your time an effort in trying to help me...but it looks like my search will continue!

Thanks again,
Cody S. Fisher