(Close Window)
Topic: Something or Nothing
Message: Posted by: DavidGold (Feb 18, 2012 09:31PM)
So I was doing my normal thing and playing around with card moves and then I thought about a second deal where the top card is not even on top of the deck when you deal now I know this takes away the ability to give that card to a confederate but it would allow your deal to be completly natural (beacuse it is)so I played with it for a couple hours and came up with this. I tried a few diffrent angles and the move holds up really well. The thing is I don't see it being useful, why not just palm off the card if you want to hold it out but it is nice beacuse the card never has to be palmed at all to get it into your lap and your hands never leave the table but other than that I cant think of anything.But anyway I may as well post it and see what you guys think this my be something or nothing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVkub67IBeU
Respectfully
David

P.S this move may have already been created but as far as I know it has not but I have been wrong before so who knows
Message: Posted by: tommy (Feb 18, 2012 11:05PM)
Wonderful, thanks. :)
Message: Posted by: manolesta73 (Feb 19, 2012 12:49AM)
I liked this, thank for sharing
Message: Posted by: tegib (Feb 19, 2012 03:05AM)
This is already created by Gene Maze it's called Second deal lap.
Message: Posted by: Vincero (Feb 19, 2012 03:07AM)
Tegib's right. Still, great thinking!
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Feb 19, 2012 04:51AM)
Also, I know this section is strictly on gambling but in Tom Frame's 'Hold'em Magic' there is an effect by Doc England I believe that uses a similar move.
Message: Posted by: jackouille07 (Feb 19, 2012 09:18AM)
I've discover this move about 1 month ago, by playing with my card, like you David. I though the move have been already published, but don't know where, thanks tegib. I think it's a great move for the magic world. The move can be useful for gambling too, but in Holdem', you play with chips and you have your chips stack in front of you, so when you deal, your hands are near the center of the table than the border, so it's more difficult to do the move. (and most moves are more difficult to do when you have a big chip stack in front of you than when you are in front of your webcam to do a demo) On a poker casino table, because the size of the table you have tendency to make a circle with your hands while dealing cards and the move is more difficult to do too.... (sorry for my poor english)


Jackouille
Message: Posted by: DavidGold (Feb 19, 2012 10:53AM)
Thaanks you guys for your kind words but haha I just had a feeling that this was already invented when I came up with it I was just like this is to good to be not invented yet..... DAMIT!!!!! but anyway I thought I would post one more second deal concept in this post beacuse again this may something or nothing. I have been pretty obsesed with getting a working deal where the second card is not on top of the deck but later can be given to a friend and this is what icame up with, Its called the turn or river second deal beacuse that's what I see it being most usefull for, although I promise you that this would work in stud poker, although it looks like it would be a very angle sensitive move it really is not, the top down angle is by far the worst but belive it or not the left and right of the dealer get the best illusion of the top card being taken. I try to demonstrate this in the video but it does not do it justice. Anyway this my be something or nothing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLgk5kJxFSg

Respectfully
David

P.S. feel free to send me a PM if anyone wants to use any of my concepts I will be happy to allow it :)
Message: Posted by: jackouille07 (Feb 19, 2012 11:11AM)
Is there any advantage compared to a classic second deal?
Message: Posted by: DavidGold (Feb 19, 2012 11:52AM)
Yes the take motion is in the middle of the card instead of the corner which is a giveaway of a second deal. Plus it is impossible to miss the top card beacuse there is no small breif you have to hit, you have the entire back of the card to take hoqever you want.
Message: Posted by: NFS (Feb 19, 2012 03:25PM)
Good job on being creative and sharing it with the public. BUT...

You should [i]really[/i] take and show appreciation to Silverking's advice and stop licking your palm and fingers. I'm sure you've got plenty of lotion by your bed, so use it.

I could see the first move being useful in magic, but for a gambling context (even as a demo move) it's crude and inferior to all its options. Ditching it into your lap is sloppy, uncontrolled, and leaves you vulnerable.

If you're the dealer then why not just control it to whatever position you need it? If the card must start on top for some reason then why not just second deal it to wherever it needs to go? If you need that card out of the deck then why not double deal the card to yourself and palm it off, thus having the card in your full control at all times?

So you've got the card to fall in your lap... Then what? Hoping that nobody is looking, you'd need to look down to note where it is, what position it's in, if it's face up or face down, then adjust it back into your palm. You could have eliminated this altogether by doing a pushoff and dealing 2 cards as 1.

Then, from there it's a whole 'nother story so if it was a second deal that you were looking for then this is not it at all.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Feb 19, 2012 04:05PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-19 16:25, NFS wrote:
I could see the first move being useful in magic, but for a gambling context (even as a demo move) it's crude and inferior to all its options. Ditching it into your lap is sloppy, uncontrolled, and leaves you vulnerable. [/quote]
You are an ingenious young man and I would never say anything negative to stiffle your creativity in any way, but NFS's quote really says it all.

But you have to experiment with "the good, the bad and the ugly" to end up with the good and I commend your courage in displaying your move on the forum for objective and positive critcism.

However, in this particular instance I respectfully submit it has no merit at all as a substitute for a #2 deal. It may have other uses in magic though.

Thanks the opportunity to view your move.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Feb 21, 2012 09:45PM)
I don't one would lap a card in a poker game unless it was a steer game where one had pal left and right but a heads game is different kettle of fish. When and how or even if one uses the stlolen card is up to you as there is no rule thaat says you have to use it in the hand your are dealing. You could use an hour or whatever later and just knowing a card is missing from play is an advantage. Holding out of any kind is risky obviously. It seems less risky than palming a card in way as with this one could claim, if it seen being dropped, that is a mere accident which you could not do if you were nailed with a card in the palm of your hand. I think its an interesting little move. I think might be useful in Kalooki perhaps.
Message: Posted by: Tony45 (Feb 22, 2012 06:19AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-21 22:45, tommy wrote:
You could use an hour or whatever later and just knowing a card is missing from play is an advantage. [/quote]

In Gin or other Rummy type games it can be a huge edge, I'm not a poker player myself but I would think the edge is there, how great I couldn't say.
Personally I think its too dangerous to hold out or lap cards unless youre playing with a yo-yo, my opinion. But like the man said : "Theres a time and a place for everything".
Just knowing the location of 2-3 cards controlled during the shuffle is good enough to book you a winner, if that aint strong enough, you better get a mask and a gun. :)
Message: Posted by: tommy (Feb 22, 2012 02:31PM)
Kalooki is a form of Gin, 2 to 4 players. Its a self dealt game unlike poker and played in private poker clubs along with Backgammon as side game so to speak. On a wet Tuesday afternoon a lot of dough can change hands before the poker starts of after in private clubs. As for who, well you get to know the individuals in a private club and you know some are not so sharp as others. I would not fancy using it, unless someome like Cagliostro walked in. :)
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Feb 22, 2012 04:02PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-22 15:31, tommy wrote:
...well you get to know the individuals in a private club and you know some are not so sharp as others. I would not fancy using it, unless someome like Cagliostro walked in. :)
[/quote]
What is the Complete Address of this club or the one you work at pumping and pitching cards every day? I'd like to make a "donation."
Message: Posted by: tommy (Feb 22, 2012 09:09PM)
You want the Complete Address of an illegal poker club - where you “think” I am dealer - published at the Magic Café, do you? This is a distinct change of procedure. :)
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Feb 23, 2012 12:36AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-22 22:09, tommy wrote:
You want the Complete Address of an illegal poker club - where you “think” I am dealer - published at the Magic Café, do you?
[/quote]
Oh, I though you could "prove" what you say? Seems like that statement was just a lot of BS. You have been exposed for all to see.

Seems like the Emperor has no cloths.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Feb 23, 2012 05:47AM)
As Bat Masterson said “There are more ways to kill a dog than by choking him to death with a piece of custard pie.”
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Feb 23, 2012 11:34AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-23 06:47, tommy wrote:
As Bat Masterson said “There are more ways to kill a dog than by choking him to death with a piece of custard pie.”
[/quote]
Yup, you really are brain dead.

In addition to talking about Martians on another thread, now you are quoting what Bat Masterson supposedly said 100 years ago, as if it was even relevant.

What next, a quote from Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck.

You bury yourself further and further with each dysfunctional post you make and continue to sidetrack any valid discussion by the members.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Feb 23, 2012 12:13PM)
Now you are on tilt. Calm down and think.

If you want the Complete Address of an illegal poker club there are more ways to get it than demanding the publication of it on a public forum of the Magic Café. As Bat Masterson said “There are more ways to kill a dog than by choking him to death with a piece of custard pie.” Get it? If you stop being silly, chill out and ask in a polite way I will tell you of another way to get it.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Feb 23, 2012 12:59PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-23 13:13, tommy wrote:
Now you are on tilt. Calm down and think. [/quote]
LOL. You are hilarious. Do you have any perception of reality? :D

[quote]As Bat Masterson said “There are more ways to kill a dog than by choking him to death with a piece of custard pie.” Get it?[/quote]
Very clever. Obviously this bogus quote is brilliant and much too deep for comprehension. But really, is that the best you can do? ;)

[quote]If you stop being silly, chill out and ask in a polite way I will tell you of another way to get it.[/quote]
Rational = silly. That is an interesting twist on the conversation.

Yes, please do PM me with this coveted information. This should be interesting. Is this where you deal poker? :D
Message: Posted by: tommy (Feb 23, 2012 01:03PM)
No
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Feb 23, 2012 01:11PM)
Tommy, can you also PM me where you deal poker? I'm sure you do riffle, riffle, box, riffle and cut very well. I would like to watch your masterful execution in action.

Also, when you deal, do you used the Erdnase grip or a square john grip? :D
Message: Posted by: tommy (Feb 23, 2012 01:22PM)
Cagliostro

Do you know any cash poker players in England?

We use a table deal here actually and use professional dealers and I am not one of them.

The cash game of choice here is Omaha 4,5 0r 6 cards dealers choice by the way.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Feb 23, 2012 01:54PM)
Why don't you two just get a room?

Preferably somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic ocean.

Somewhere very cold and very deep.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Feb 23, 2012 02:37PM)
Looks like another fish has arrived looking for a game.
Message: Posted by: borderjs (Feb 23, 2012 03:00PM)
Thanks for sharing your videos!
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Feb 23, 2012 03:26PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-23 15:37, tommy wrote:
Looks like another fish has arrived looking for a game.
[/quote]

Don't bother sweetheart. You ladies need to take it outside, or inside, or whatever works for you.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Feb 23, 2012 03:29PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-23 14:54, tomsk192 wrote:
Why don't you two just get a room?

Preferably somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic ocean.

Somewhere very cold and very deep.
[/quote]
Actually, tomsk192's point is well taken.

These oblique, tangential, confrontation and cheap shot/sniping posts are really not in the best interest of the BB or the members and a waste of productive time. In fairness to the others on the BB, I will not respond any further to non-relevant, confrontation, sniping or cheap shot posts so the rest of the members can get on with the subject matter of the respective posts without being sidetracked with irrelevant and/or annoying banter.

To some, these type posts may be fun and enjoyable but I joined the BB to write and comment on information I deem to be relevant and worthwhile based upon a great deal of experience in the gambling world. Those who don’t understand, or don’t like, or don’t believe the information I impart – well, they don’t have to read my posts, do they?

For others who are serious students of the subject and would like to read about things that are often new, relatively unknown and different from the usual re-hashed and well-known trivia, I think they can benefit greatly from some of the information I can and do impart.

[b]If most think that is not the case, just let me know and I will leave the BB.[/b]

In any event, to be fair to the other members, I am not going to play this silly, non-productive game anymore. Hopefully, my positive actions will be contagious.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Feb 23, 2012 03:33PM)
Word.