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Topic: Real Secrets
Message: Posted by: Real Secrets Team (Feb 18, 2012 11:35PM)
In case you have not checked your PM's, we'd like to thank Steve Brooks for posting the announcement of Real Secrets in his private message to all Magic Café members. Real Secrets was mentioned by Michael Weber in his lectures at Blackpool as he has a few never before released items in Real Secrets and was excited about the project and its goals overall.

So what is Real Secrets, why the excitement by some of the top people? Real Secrets is never-before-seen usable, clever, practical close up, mentalism, and a little stand-up magic delivered every month directly to your mailbox. Physical props and instructions sent by First Class US Mail every month of new items by and inspired by the likes of creators like Gaetan Bloom, Cyril, Michael Weber, Robert Neale, Max Maven, and an ever-growing team of the best minds in magic. Yes you read that right… magic, thinking, and inspiration from some of the best thinkers in the world by a secret company that will bring you the best every month. You'll get magic with receipts, gum, photographs, jelly beans, Rock Paper Scissors, Scratch Cards, diets, coins, brain power, drawings, ads, ropes, and so much more. We have tried to focus on different effects other than the standard card and coins though there will be items using those standard props. If these items we put out as general releases you would easily pay $20, $30, or $40 for each of them. This is clever magic you will use and take delight in each month.

Real Secrets will even include an unpublished Paul Curry effect.

Once you become a part of the Real Secrets community, expect lots of exciting surprises. Never throw away anything you get from Real Secrets – even a stamp on the envelope might contain a Real Secret. Throughout your membership you will get the feature and also items you may not understand but will find the secret to as time passes.

Who is behind Real Magic... we have decided not to focus on that or share that as Real Secrets is about the artists and creators involved and not a company. The people who are participating will grow and change. A number of new creators such as Axel Hecklau, Paul Wilson, Christian Engblom, and others have recently joined our ranks.

Membership to the Real Secrets community is available in quarterly installments or with an annual subscription. We'd encourage you to act now, because back issues will NOT be available.

As a member, you must agree not to describe, share, or post videos of any of the effects or methods shared in the Real Secrets community. The goal is to protect these secrets for you and all of the other members. Certainly you can discuss whether you like or hate Real Secrets with others around you but you simply have to agree to the rules of the game to be and continue to be a member. If you don't feel comfortable committing to that Real Secrets is not for you. If you don't feel comfortable with secrets then Real Secrets is not for you.

As a special thank you being an Exclusive Platinum members who subscribe and pay for a full year in advance, you will get bonuses ONLY available to Platinum Members including an unpublished, closely guarded effect with custom gimmicks by Michael Weber. Real Secrets has well over two year’s content completed and ready to share with our community. We are finalizing all production for the first year so it will be ready to go every month.

Platinum Exclusive Membership

Special 12-month Platinum Exclusive Membership one-time annual fee of $144 within USA or $150 outside of the USA. Exclusive Membership includes special secret yearly subscriber bonuses including a never-before-published effect and custom gimmicks from Michael Weber – only available to Platinum Members. Recurs yearly automatically. Go to http://www.realsecrets.org to subscribe

Gold Membership

Only $36 for 3-month installment in the USA ($40 for a 3-month installment outside of the USA) – automatic recurring quarterly subscription. Go to http://www.realsecrets.org to subscribe. At the bottom of the Platinum Membership section, you'll find the Gold Membership option. This will not include some of the special Platinum bonuses or the Weber 13th issue. Old issues of Real Secrets will not be available as is.

You will see many great things coming from Real Secrets in the future including a few items for the general magic population and more.

The first issue will ship out the beginning of April. We look forward to having you in the Real Secrets community.
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Feb 19, 2012 12:04AM)
Sorry. Just too "secretive" for me. I like to know what I'm buying in advance: the people involved; if it's applicable to my needs. So far the Real Secrets approach is very vague. I would think you are already aware of many Magic Café members expressing how they've been burnt by some of their purchases in the past. As well as various dealers and publishers not keeping their promises. I've saved many $$$s by heeding them. I would prefer things VERY CLEAR. And I see no reason not to be. My two cents, but others here may feel the same way.
Message: Posted by: JCheng (Feb 19, 2012 12:10AM)
This sounds interesting!
Message: Posted by: Stellan (Feb 19, 2012 01:40AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-19 00:35, Real Secrets Team wrote:
We'd encourage you to act now, because back issues will NOT be available.

As a member, you must agree not to describe, share, or post videos of any of the effects or methods shared in the Real Secrets community.
[/quote]

It sounds more like magicians trying to fool magicians.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 19, 2012 01:55AM)
"Real Secrets Team", are you Tony Hassini? I hope you'll answer that question.

Clarke
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Feb 19, 2012 03:56AM)
"Who is behind Real Magic... we have decided not to focus on that or share that"

And I've decided not to focus on subscribing or sending you any money.

What patronising bilge.
Message: Posted by: Roslyn (Feb 19, 2012 05:24AM)
So, beginning of April is the first issue. When is the last date you can subscribe to get issue 1?
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Feb 19, 2012 05:48AM)
I would like a little more info too before committing to this. I don't see the need for such secrecy.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 19, 2012 10:26AM)
Steve Brooks received an IMS award from Tony Hassini and this fellow " Real Secrets Team " comes across like Tony Hassini. If "Real Secrets Team" will not divulge who he is, I think Steve Brooks, since he is endorsing this, should tell us. No one is going to join this until Steve or " Real Secrets Team " fess up who is involved, or soon posts and threads will vanish from the Café making the situation worse.

" If these items we put out as general releases you would easily pay $20, $30, or $40 for each of them. This is clever magic you will use and take delight in each month ".

That's a big statement. Can we see descriptions of these amazing effects and who created them before we give our hard earned money over to you? Guess not, because that would ruin the secret, uh?

"We are finalizing all production for the first year so it will be ready to go every month".

Really? You want people to pay and join a secret society and you don't even have it finalized? I guess members that join can get ready for the first of many "we have a small delay" series of announcements.

"We'd encourage you to act now, because back issues will NOT be available".

Sounds like a Cheap tele-marketing phone script. You better give us your money and not ask questions or you'll miss out on this amazing opportunity.

"Who is behind Real Magic... we have decided not to focus on that or share that as Real Secrets is about the artists and creators involved and not a company".

That would be great, if this was FREE. You want us to hand over money to anonymous strangers? Forget it about that. Not going to happen.

Their website looks like.....the Tony Hassini IMS website. Right out of 1995. lol.
__________________________________________________________________________________

There was a company started a few years ago called The Magicians Network. They also had "big names" helping them. It had all these exciting features for when you joined. But, it never lived up to its hype and closed its doors with unfulfilled promises.

BUT...we knew who was running it. This "Real Secrets" sounds like a scam. They are using the Café to line their pockets with this cheap marketing ploy. They are treating The Magic Café members as if they are stupid.

Magicians get burned around here all the time with "pre-release" specials that go sour. But, again, at least we know who they are.

If someone called you on the phone with the cheap script the original poster of this thread has used and wouldn't identify himself, would you hand over your hard earned money?

The Magic Café is endorsing this, so it must be great? Ever have a friend call wanting to get together to discuss an opportunity and you have to sit through some multi level marketing, pyramid spiel? This is what we have here.

The "50,217 registered members" The Magic Café has sounded very attractive to them.

Real Secrets Team, reveal yourself or take your non-sense elsewhere!

Clarke
Message: Posted by: Bande (Feb 19, 2012 10:44AM)
I have to agree. There are a ton of tricks both good and bad out there. TMC is a great resource in helping the community seperate wheat from chaff and hype from reality. With no reviews I will certainly not pay my hard earned cash on some vague promise by anonymous people. I respect Steve Brooks, and the fact that he endorses this gives it some credibility, but alas not enough for me to pay sans reviews, sans information etc.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Feb 19, 2012 10:52AM)
I decided to join by secretly sending my money to a secret location, payable to "the secret people". I hope they honour that with as much trust as they expect me to have for them. :)
Message: Posted by: Devious (Feb 19, 2012 11:18AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-19 00:35, Real Secrets Team wrote:

As a member, you must agree not to describe, share, or post videos of any of the effects or methods shared in the Real Secrets community.

[/quote]

How are you going to police or enforce this mandate?
If they post a performance or reveal an effect description,
do they get banned and eliminated from further mailings etc.?

Zombie Magic Clarke raises some very valid points.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 19, 2012 11:23AM)
Why can't they come here and be as classy and open as Jeff McBride? Why can't they show pride in themselves and well as the community like Jeff McBride does with his wonderful school?

Clarke
Message: Posted by: coosticks (Feb 19, 2012 11:45AM)
I agree with all of the above; sounds cool, but WHO and WHAT is what I'd like to know.

surely if you can name

" A number of new creators such as Axel Hecklau, Paul Wilson, Christian Engblom, and others have recently joined our ranks"

you can name everyone (those who are already involved, and then as new people get involved.

I assume that these three are the only ones so far - fair enough - but, as someone else said; this first post smacks of internet marketing (I won't say scam) to me.

I'm sure many, me included, would be interested in joining if this is dealt with in a much more clear way.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Feb 19, 2012 12:56PM)
There is beginning to be a long list of "pay me now, I promise something later" on the Café, and in many cases, one can slog through the MC and read the regrets when things didn't work out as advertised. Magicians must be the easiest people to fool on the planet! This could be the greatest thing in the world, but my money is too hard to come by to give it away on a promise...
Message: Posted by: coosticks (Feb 19, 2012 01:54PM)
I just saw the PM message(s) for Mr Brookes as well as "the real secrets team"

Apparently, Steve has himself joined up, so I guess that's an endorsement.

I also noticed the sponsor banner, so they are also paying him (in a way)

I'm thinking about joining up, if nothing else for the exclusivity of the effects.

I'm sure the whole thing is totally legit; just a shame that the post came across like it had been copied for 'Internet marketing 101'
Message: Posted by: bugjack (Feb 19, 2012 02:28PM)
On the third video from The Magic Place from Blackpool, Tim Trono, who is being interviewed, says this is Michael Weber's project.
Message: Posted by: Mercury52 (Feb 19, 2012 03:13PM)
Normally I'd be very wary about something like this. But the fact that Weber is involved makes me a bit more interested. Whether or not he's actually the one behind the project, I don't know. But just the fact that he's willing to let this outfit release his material must mean that he thinks they're on the up and up. I don't think he would release material through anyone that he didn't find to be trustworthy.

Still on the fence...

Kevin
Message: Posted by: JCheng (Feb 19, 2012 03:16PM)
Can anybody give the link to the video please?
Thanks
Message: Posted by: Seeker (Feb 19, 2012 03:24PM)
Ill tell you what.

Everyone send me a dollar and I will send you secret stuff from my secret team of secret people who do secret things.

Really. You will love it and it's limited time offer for limited things.

Just saying.
Message: Posted by: Eric Gretencord (Feb 19, 2012 03:25PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-19 16:16, JCheng wrote:
Can anybody give the link to the video please?
Thanks
[/quote]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mNRqmZhDStA#t=350s
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 19, 2012 03:32PM)
Jeff Hobson started his online Lecture Network and after much fanfare....it shutdown, burning its members. But, we knew who ran it.

Michael Close started his "For Workers Only" site, but after it failed to meet it's promises to members, it shutdown. But, we knew who ran it.

Now we have these Real Secrets guys wanting us to join for a big fee, but...they are anonymous, cloaked in secrecy, telling us we don't need to know who they are, because it's all about artists and creators. If it folds down and members get burned, who is held responsible? All the "big names" they mentioned won't man up. They'll just say "I only submitted tricks to them".

They say "The first issue will ship out the beginning of April". What exactly is an "issue"? What's in it? They won't say. How do they define the beginning of April for the first shipment? April 1st? 7th? The 14th?

This may be the greatest event/idea magic has ever known. But considering how they have represented themselves, I'd say it's going, in a short time, be a big failure.

I'l stick with The Magic Café, Genii, Magic and Reel Magic.
Message: Posted by: JCheng (Feb 19, 2012 03:33PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-19 16:25, Eric Gretencord wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-02-19 16:16, JCheng wrote:
Can anybody give the link to the video please?
Thanks
[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mNRqmZhDStA#t=350s
[/quote]
Thanks Eric
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Feb 19, 2012 04:27PM)
I thought I was going out on a limb here as the first one to post with doubts. Thanks, guys, for chiming in with your perspectives!
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 19, 2012 04:28PM)
Tim Trono has worked with some of the biggest names in magic, developing and bringing out magic we all use. Michael Webber is an actual genius. All the names mentioned are well respected.

My issue is with the original poster and how this was presented. If you prepare a perfect filet mignon, in a 5 star restaurant, but serve it on a dirty paper plate, the customer will be turned off and not accept it.
Message: Posted by: motown (Feb 19, 2012 07:37PM)
If your going to ask people to pay over $100 dollars for something then you have an obligation to provide far more information than So far has been given. Too many secrets.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Feb 20, 2012 05:24AM)
I think this is the key point. Micheal Weber rarely releases material. He would not tarnish his rep with something that was not solid.
I wonder how hard it is to cancel? They say "recurring" these things can be a nightmare.
James
ps
I have this DVD of a Japanese TV show with Weber doing a hammered nail matrix. The nails are in the board, then he magically moves them around.
eyepopping!


[quote]
On 2012-02-19 16:13, Mercury52 wrote:
Normally I'd be very wary about something like this. But the fact that Weber is involved makes me a bit more interested. Whether or not he's actually the one behind the project, I don't know. But just the fact that he's willing to let this outfit release his material must mean that he thinks they're on the up and up. I don't think he would release material through anyone that he didn't find to be trustworthy.

Still on the fence...

Kevin
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: davidpaul$ (Feb 20, 2012 08:19AM)
The website has "NO" contact information, "No" address, "No" phone number, "No"names but there "IS" a link to send your money.
Ummmmmm I'm signing up!! :wow:
Message: Posted by: Mr. Marko (Feb 20, 2012 10:16AM)
I'm signing up, too-- to Reel Magic Magazine.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Feb 20, 2012 10:26AM)
I just showed the ad to a close friend who knows a little about marketing. He agrees that this whole thing should be avoided. regardless of who may or not be part of this project, having no name, address, or contact info is extremely bad business practices. There is no protection in place for customers, and they should be offering a money back guarantee. If there are big reputal names on this project, why such an unethical and immoral way to sell a product? No one goes into such secrecy unless there is something to hide. In this case people are hiding, and in this industry we know that there are several dishonest, immoral, unethical liars and thiefs. The surprising thing is, they once were reputable names in our industry.
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Feb 20, 2012 10:42AM)
I've been ripped on site and I know who they are....
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Feb 20, 2012 12:56PM)
Not withstanding the screams of the terrified, I cannot imagine Steve Brooks joining up AND touting this without knowing the people involved, being shown the stuff already on the shelf,and having trust in the people's ability to pull this off.

I'd drop $150 on this...I've dropped more on highly touted unworkable carp from other people I've heard of...but none of those names were Brooks, Maven or Weber.

Tho...it is probably time to fess up to the other info such as names of the founders and publishers. This thing could be REALLY exciting and could call out some high end work...private, limited, no revealing...sounds real good to me.

It may well not be something they want hoards of people joining. There well be some altruistic things going on.

Then again, I could be wrong.

But, in the meantime, I'm in. It's worth the risk of a 3-month subscripton at the least.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Feb 20, 2012 01:23PM)
I see where you can sign up and pay via PayPal, though it says there that you agree with the Terms - which are nebulous at best. Also, no privacy policy that I can find. I think I will beg out of this one.

Thank you.

Jim
Message: Posted by: insight (Feb 20, 2012 01:40PM)
My understanding is that one of the names associated with Real Secrets is going to make a statement regarding the major concerns of people...in the meantime, hang in there!

Regards,
Mike
Message: Posted by: todsky (Feb 20, 2012 01:46PM)
I took the chance the other day and paid a full year membership, because I like the idea of getting a magic surprise each month. However, after reading many of the concerns posted here, I'm having second thoughts, and I emailed Real Secrets to ask them for a refund. I'll let you all know how that goes.
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Feb 20, 2012 01:59PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-20 06:24, Xiqual wrote:
I wonder how hard it is to cancel? They say "recurring" these things can be a nightmare.
James
[quote]

With Paypal, it's as easy as pushing a button on their website.
Message: Posted by: Jon Hackett (Feb 20, 2012 02:14PM)
Saw Mr Weber at blackpool convention this weekend and he was selling subscriptions to this on his stand. For me, that is enough proof it is legit.

Moreover, he was really excited about this, and the things they were going to release.

Good day gentlemen,

Jon Hackett
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Feb 20, 2012 02:14PM)
Nice to see a rabbling mob trash this with no evidence of anything. Assumptions of intent flying like snarky arrows. Assumptions of the very worst instead of assumptions of the very best. Perhaps, if everyone who objects does NOT join in, the actual members would be better off? So far there are....oops, as a member, I cannot comment on content.

However: $12 a month for exclusive hot stuff....cheaper than ANY eBook out there.

Relax. If you don't like the setup, DON'T join, and it doesn't concern you. If you do like it, join up.

...and I'd bet refund request will be handled promptly. Think about it...why would anyone give anyone a hassle on refunds this early in the game?
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 20, 2012 02:16PM)
Some people will join because of the creators behind it ( I wanted to ). In about two months they should receive their first 'miracle'. Maybe we'll get a review.

But..the "REAL SECRETS TEAM" says in their first and only Café post "Certainly you can discuss whether you like or hate Real Secrets with others around you but you simply have to agree to the rules of the game to be and continue to be a member".

So...will they just come here and say the first trick they received is the greatest trick they have ever seen...but...they can't discuss it. Just take their word for it and join right away.

I'd be very suspect of reviews that come in as online forums already have the friends of creators giving glowing reviews. There is talk that companies and creators pay people to give glowing reviews. The online world of magic is like a Twilight Zone episode where you don't know who to trust.

Do do do do, do do do do......
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Feb 20, 2012 02:22PM)
[quote]
So...will they just come here and say the first trick they received is the greatest trick they have ever seen...but...they can't discuss it. Just take their word for it and join right away.
[/quote]
If the stuff is good, members will NOT want others to join. Exclusive is exclusive, and silence is the lock.

And apparently the creators are demanding secrecy. How is this bad?
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 20, 2012 02:30PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-20 15:14, Tom Jorgenson wrote:
Nice to see a rabbling mob trash this with no evidence of anything. Assumptions of intent flying like snarky arrows. Assumptions of the very worst instead of assumptions of the very best. Perhaps, if everyone who objects does NOT join in, the actual members would be better off? So far there are....oops, as a member, I cannot comment on content.

However: $12 a month for exclusive hot stuff....cheaper than ANY eBook out there.

Relax. If you don't like the setup, DON'T join, and it doesn't concern you. If you do like it, join up.

...and I'd bet refund request will be handled promptly. Think about it...why would anyone give anyone a hassle on refunds this early in the game?
[/quote]
Not $12 a month, $144 paid in FULL a year. There is a difference. Now if it was monthly I would not mind trying it for a few months or so and then I would make my decision. I don't call being cautious and aware trashing a product, a product that no one has any information about. And it makes sense not to want to pay for something blindly and not know what you are getting. That is called smart consumer/business practices. As opposed to just jumping in blindly and possibly getting burnt. That is where experience and awareness comes in. I personally think it is legit and probably good stuff. But the point is that I will not be making the purchase because of the overly secretive nature of it all, and the lack of support and information does not appeal to me as a consumer.

The magician in me wants to jump on it, but the consumer in me says it is not a smart risk. Unless you have loads of money in reserve you don't mind blowing. Better safe than sorry. But there are just too many variables going on, can't talk about it, can't do a video of the material, recurring payments, no registered company, can't review it, no this no that etc. As a consumer I would be willing to take the plunge if I could buy back issues later and if I could read reviews that would tell me what I am getting. If not they will lose my business, and I am sure the business of many others who are cautiously aware and have been burnt in the past via pre-orders.

I don't call being skeptical about purchasing an unknown product trash mobbing, I call it intelligent consumerism. Lack of information leaves no other choice BUT to assume. And most assume the worst so they are not disppointed nor surprised when they get it.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 20, 2012 02:40PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-20 15:16, Zombie Magic wrote:
Some people will join because of the creators behind it ( I wanted to ). In about two months they should receive their first 'miracle'. Maybe we'll get a review.

But..the "REAL SECRETS TEAM" says in their first and only Café post "Certainly you can discuss whether you like or hate Real Secrets with others around you but you simply have to agree to the rules of the game to be and continue to be a member".

So...will they just come here and say the first trick they received is the greatest trick they have ever seen...but...they can't discuss it. Just take their word for it and join right away.

I'd be very suspect of reviews that come in as online forums already have the friends of creators giving glowing reviews. There is talk that companies and creators pay people to give glowing reviews. The online world of magic is like a Twilight Zone episode where you don't know who to trust.

Do do do do, do do do do......
[/quote]
Yeah the review would be something like this:

Wow just got my REAL SECRETS in the mail and it ROCKS!!! Awesome stuff in awesome packaging!! The effect is by ****** ******* and involves taking a **** and placing it an ******** and thus setting in on **** and then ********* it. Did I tell too much? I hope not I do not want to be removed from this awesome ELITE group! I would tell you what I give the effect out of 10 but that is a secret chumps! Join now!! AWESOME STUFF!! ********** (secret rating 10 stars please don't remove me!)
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 20, 2012 02:49PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-20 15:14, Tom Jorgenson wrote:
Nice to see a rabbling mob trash this with no evidence of anything. Assumptions of intent flying like snarky arrows. Assumptions of the very worst instead of assumptions of the very best. Perhaps, if everyone who objects does NOT join in, the actual members would be better off? So far there are....oops, as a member, I cannot comment on content.

However: $12 a month for exclusive hot stuff....cheaper than ANY eBook out there.

Relax. If you don't like the setup, DON'T join, and it doesn't concern you. If you do like it, join up.

...and I'd bet refund request will be handled promptly. Think about it...why would anyone give anyone a hassle on refunds this early in the game?
[/quote]
Actually, everyone is following the rules of The Latest and Greatest section and in response to the original poster, Real Secrets Team.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=179360&forum=218&0

"To provide a place where folks can discuss the latest rumors, read announcements and speculate about the obvious hyperbole surrounding many of the upcoming products that are released into magicdom. Will they be genuine miracles or mere rhetoric? We ponder the question... "
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 20, 2012 02:51PM)
Ouch, the Café shot it itself in the foot. :lol:
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Feb 20, 2012 02:56PM)
Maybe they should put out one "sampler" issue for $12. People could check out the content and quality and decide if they wanted to spend another $36 for three more issues or $144 for another 12. I guess the sample issue couldn't be one of the regular issues, since they've promised exclusivity to subscribers, but it could still be representative of what the regular issues will be like.

It's the sight-unseen nature of this project, coupled with the fact that the smallest investment you can make in it is $36, that has people hesitating. If they could make a smaller investment and get a clearer picture of what they'd be getting with a subscription, it seems like that would be beneficial to both the Real Secrets people (whoever they are) and to their potential customers.
Message: Posted by: waltsal (Feb 20, 2012 03:15PM)
Here we go again.
Message: Posted by: RevJohn (Feb 20, 2012 03:15PM)
I am in. Will see if in a year, I say, "I am glad I did that." or "Well, mmmm."

But I am in.

RevJohn
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Feb 20, 2012 03:16PM)
I think a 'wait and see' attitude is intelligent, and a 'jump on it from available data' is also intelligent. It is not the available data that is off-putting...so far, sounds great....it is the info that is missing that is driving people up a wall.


But the assumptions of intent ("I'll bet they...") with no evidence...is high school thinking.

Anyway, I've layed out my opinions, backed up with a year's subscription...and they don't need me to play Devil's Advocate for them, as they've got all the skinny on this. Now, it's time for ME to play that 'Wait and See' thing.

Rage on.

It's back to the hammock for me. Life is good.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Feb 20, 2012 03:25PM)
Maybe they should fix their website so it's secured. Any info you give on their website in regards to your personal information is NOT protected. Their paypal account is unverified. They do not have a merchant id number. Yet, we are to trust them? Are you serious? This is very amatuer even if so called reputable people in the industry are involved in the project. From the cheap unsecured, unprotected website that does not protect your personal information, to the marketing of it.

Everyone should be warned that the website is unsecured, especially when it asks for personal information. The website is very amatuer, and as someone pointed out, no specifics on the terms and conditions. The paypal account is a week old, and still unverified.

No matter how you look at it. This project was badly introduced, and is poorly put together. Amateur is written all over it. It thinks nothing of protecting customers, while secrectly hiding protects them 100%.

It's not an issue of if it's a scam or not, and no one has claimed that. What is being discussed is some facts that have been presented, and concerns about who is in charge of the project, not who is contributing to it.
Message: Posted by: jaybest (Feb 20, 2012 03:32PM)
Well my platinum membership is in, looking forward to the surprises myself.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Feb 20, 2012 03:38PM)
****edited****
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Feb 20, 2012 03:41PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-20 16:38, GaryLee wrote:
****edited****
[/quote]
Gary, how do you know there are 60 registrations ?
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 20, 2012 03:53PM)
From their amateurish, unsecured and UNPROTECTED website, to their lame "Who is behind Real Magic... we have decided not to focus on that or share"....what can you actually expect in reliable service each month? They made a big announcement on The Café and have been flooded with complaints about how they run their website. Yet, they remain silent. Can you imagine how they'll handle problems that naturally will occur with this type of endeavor?

Why have they made this announcement in February and are taking money, but you don't receive any product until 'the beginning' of April?

Considering that BIG name creators in the magic world put out dvds that contain a great deal of filer material, what can you expect as your monthly trick?

When you think about it, how great is this monthly trick going to be? Max Maven himself says 90% of everything released is crap. So this sloppy company is going to release the 10% that is fantastic?

This is what happens when you hide who you are and what you'll get: people start to speculate.
Message: Posted by: toberman (Feb 20, 2012 05:40PM)
We have an amazing amount of skeptics and one or two "private investigators" here. What's the big debate? Either give it a try for as little as $36 or wait for some feedback in April. It's a pretty simple choice. Personally, I think this is going to be an exciting project.
Message: Posted by: JCheng (Feb 20, 2012 05:48PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-20 16:53, Zombie Magic wrote:
Why have they made this announcement in February and are taking money, but you don't receive any product until 'the beginning' of April?
[/quote]
I think it's so more people can join/subscribe before sending the first product. So more people have the chance to get the first product. It makes sense to me.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Feb 20, 2012 07:55PM)
I already posted my feelings, but just to clarify them:

First, I don't fear this is a scam, but personally I like to have a little more info before committing this much money. I know it is not a lot to some, but to a hobbyist who is retired and disabled it is too much to risk. I would subscribe but I need a little more of a comfort zone. (I previously subscribed to two other such sites that were disbanded part way into the year. Neither as expensive as this one though)

Second, Gary-how do you know that the site does mot use https? Snce they use PayPal I would almost bet that it IS secure. From experiece I kknow that many sites do not show as https where you fill the form but your data is indeed transmitted over https. I'd like to know if you definitely KNOW the site is not secure, or if this is just a supposition on your part.

Again, I believe that Real Secrets is not a scam and will be safe to sign up. I say that because Brooks is pushing it and more so because Mr. Weber is selling it anad talking it up at Blackpool. I'd just like to hear a few more details before I commit.

Thanks!

Jim
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Feb 20, 2012 08:15PM)
Yes I'm curious too in a positive way.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Feb 20, 2012 09:27PM)
Anytime a web page asks you for sensitive information, you need to be able to identify if the page is secure or not. The ability to recognize a secure web connection is extremely important as online fraud cases have increased substantially from year to year. This FAQ is intended to guide you to safer online shopping.

What exactly do we mean by "secure"?

Anytime you view a web site information is sent from your computer to the web server and from the web server to your computer. The transmission of this information is normally sent in "plain text", meaning anyone would be able to read it should they see it. Now consider this. Each piece of information transmitted traverses many computers (servers) to reach its destination.

Try it! - Windows Users, to see just how many machines your information traverses, follow these steps:

1) On your computer, click Start, then Run
2) Type "cmd" and click "OK" (or press Enter)
3) Type this in exactly: tracert http://www.ssl.com
4) Press Enter

Each listing in the window is a different computer/router/switch (a "node" in networking terms). Each "node" represents a point at which any data you send might be recorded! It is not uncommon to see 20-30 listings.

Big deal, right? Consider this the next time you type in a password or your credit card number. Ah! Therein lies the problem. The solution to this problem is to encrypt this data for transmission. Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) was created for this very purpose.

SSL uses a complex system of key exchanges between your browser and the server you are communicating with in order to encrypt the data before transmitting it across the web. A web page with an active SSL session is what we mean when we say a web page is "secure".

ALL WEB PAGES ASKING YOU FOR SENSITIVE INFORMATION SHOULD BE SECURED USING SSL!!! click to read more http://faq.ssl.com/article.aspx?id=10068

http://www.realsecrets.org/ home page

check out page requiring persnal info. http://www.realsecrets.org/cart/checkout

Check the web page URL

Normally, when browsing the web, the URLs (web page addresses) begin with the letters "http". However, over a secure connection the address displayed should begin with "https" - note the "s" at the end.

Some site will only make certain pages secured. For example, if you typed in Ellusionist.com you would get http://www.ellusionist.com/. But, when you get to a page that requires personal info it will look like this, https://www.ellusionist.com/customer/account/login/ or like this, https://www.ellusionist.com/customer/account/create/

I am not saying this is a scam. Nor have I mentioned that. I want to make clear here that there are several concerns that I do hope get resolved.

The gmail account that is used for financial transaction cannot be tracked by reverse search, but the url originally came from godaddy and then transferred to Tucow in Toronto. They have gone to extremes to hide who they are, and some people think that's okay?

So, in answering the question of if the site is safe or not, all depends on if you are going to give it any personal information. To order from them, you will have to give them personal info first. I highly warn people that that info is not protected.

Posted: Feb 20, 2012 10:36pm
I can assure you that those who have registered already have given their personal information on a unsecured website.

This could of been an oversight on realsecrets part, but it's a huge one. One that should never had been missed by anyone who is operating a legit business. By legit, I mean legally registered, tax paying company, not an under the table unregistered mystery company who uses a free email account, and a free website.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 20, 2012 09:37PM)
GaryLee, thank you for taking the time to raise a red flag in order to protect Café members. I for one appreciate it!

I hope Steve Brooks publicly thanks you as well. After all, he owns and operates The Magic Café and gave his endorsement of realsecrets.org.

Clarke
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 20, 2012 11:33PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-20 11:16, Mr. Marko wrote:
I'm signing up, too-- to Reel Magic Magazine.
[/quote]

That is a great investment, I have them all.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 20, 2012 11:40PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-20 16:53, Zombie Magic wrote:
Can you imagine how they'll handle problems that naturally will occur with this type of endeavor?
[/quote]
Yes they will ignore you just like the Café does. But nonetheless, whether people "bash" or praise this idea no publicity is bad publicity. But I got plenty of material that is "hidden" and that no one else performs, in magic books/magazines dating back to the early 1900's. They say the best material is hidden in books, and that is especially true these days. I have several hundred of those so I guess I will good for awhile. But the DVD collection is now getting up there too. I just wish I was not so busy doing the material from books for the last 30 years, then I could actually get a chance to view the DVDs.
[quote]
On 2012-02-20 18:48, JCheng wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-02-20 16:53, Zombie Magic wrote:
Why have they made this announcement in February and are taking money, but you don't receive any product until 'the beginning' of April?
[/quote]
I think it's so more people can join/subscribe before sending the first product. So more people have the chance to get the first product. It makes sense to me.
[/quote]
Actually that is probably so they can get past the 45 day claim period for paypal in case they don't deliver :lol:.

Posted: Feb 21, 2012 12:48am
Yeah nothing is secure on that site until you log into paypal.
Message: Posted by: todsky (Feb 21, 2012 03:26PM)
Well, I got my refund. I'll wait a little while to see how things sort themselves out with this project before deciding whether or not to jump back in again.
Message: Posted by: Mercury52 (Feb 21, 2012 04:24PM)
Hey guys.  I can’t say much due to the whole nature of Real Secrets, but I now know who some of the people behind the project are, and they are VERY well-known and reputable.  I’ve signed up for one year.
 
As the ad states, these guys already have the material for year 1 completed, and year 2 is planned out.  So they’re not merely one or 2 months ahead of themselves, they have the first year done.
 
I’m sure they’ve seen the thread here, and I’ve encouraged them to address contact info and security.  There is a contact email address that you receive when you sign up with Real Secrets, but I don’t yet know whether or not it can be publicly shared.  As for the security of the site, (and this is coming from me, not them) the only info you enter in an unprotected area is your address.  All financial info is done through Paypal, which is secure.  Since most addresses can be found in the white pages, I wasn’t too concerned with sharing that info.
 
I can say that I trust the team behind this project very much, and the material should deliver in a big way.
 
I think everyone should do what they’re comfortable with though.  For some that might be waiting a little bit for people to start actually having items delivered.  You might miss out on the first month or 2 of products, but your peace of mind could be well worth it.  Up to you, but my order is in, and I have zero trepidation.
Message: Posted by: edh (Feb 21, 2012 04:31PM)
I just don't understand why all the secrecy about the people that run Real Secrets?

Why don't they want to be associated with their own project?
Message: Posted by: MagicBrent (Feb 21, 2012 04:36PM)
I would just like specifics...don't really like card stuff...would hate to see a platinum special is a card gaff! While I'm concerned too about the security info above I'm intrigued by the skepticism because that would just mean less people in the know so stuff stays secretive
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 21, 2012 07:04PM)
Kevin Reylek ( Mercury52) is a first rate person that works in the business ( NY Magic Project ) and I trust him.

todsky got a refund. That's excellent. Shady people don't give refunds without being forced to.

And, a friend called me this morning. He attended Blackpool and he swears by this project. He was privy to info we don't have, so I raised all the questions about what was going on and he doesn't know who built the website and about the security issues. This needs to get addressed because it's vital that members are protected and I think Café Members that investigated and reported back to us should be commended. This site is "Magicians Helping Magicians" and I hope no one will be scolded by anyone, Café management or members, for looking out for others.

As soon as the site security issues are fixed, I'm going to take a leap of faith and join. When Steve Brooks sent out the PM I was interested because of the names involved. But I backed off because of all the reasons I have mentioned and those of others.

Come April, if it isn't the exciting project it's made out to be, I'll shout about it. I don't enjoy getting burned by clever dealer ads or fake demos as much as the next Magician. I've re-read the original post by REAL SECRETS and feel we all acted appropriately.That intro letter sounded like that guy who used to send out magic marketing letters years ago. "Better grab this before I regain my sanity and raise the price ". Good grief!

So, I'm joining as soon as it's safe to do so.

Clarke
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 21, 2012 11:59PM)
If they revealed who all these big names were it would increase sales, and there would be a lot more sales by those who make cautious purchases. But they are hoping that using this whole secrecy thing will sell the product. But for those who are informed and skeptical this throws up too many red flags. It is targeted at magicians who want to fool magicians, or have material that others can't get, and inflate their egos a little more. But there is a TON of hidden material out there already that no one is doing, and audiences won't know the difference. So I think the whole secrecy thing is pretty childish and going a little to the extreme here.

I don't buy any product that I don't know about, or have reviews on. I already know too many secrets as it is, and still have a lot more waiting to be discovered in my library. So unless there are reviews or back issues I have no problems passing on this.
Message: Posted by: RevJohn (Feb 22, 2012 12:05AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-22 00:59, sirbrad wrote:
I don't buy any product that I don't know about...
[/quote]

But instead you will insult those of us who have made the plunge. It is one thing to say you are not going to buy, but to assume you know why any one person went in on it, especially to inflate their ego is presumptuous and insulting.

RevJohn
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Feb 22, 2012 08:37AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-22 01:05, RevJohn wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-02-22 00:59, sirbrad wrote:
I don't buy any product that I don't know about...
[/quote]
But instead you will insult those of us who have made the plunge. It is one thing to say you are not going to buy, but to assume you know why any one person went in on it, especially to inflate their ego is presumptuous and insulting.
RevJohn
[/quote]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rev-

I didn't see the insult, but agree that it is an issue with at least 2 points of view and we should all be respectful of the views of others, whether or not they support our argument. I fall into the "once burned" category and am very skeptical of "money up front" promotions. More power to those who jump in and secure a spot. I would probably sign up if the deal was commit now, then we bill you when ready to ship.

Also, the lack of real info and real names is disturbing. What could be the reason? Perhaps it is like a conference with no name main speaker, so the ad reads "special surprise star- to be announced". Meaning no disrespect to the few names mentioned as reason for comfort, but the name "Madoff" echoes in my mind...

I certainly hope this works out well for you, but us conservative types seldom are there for the big win...

Jim
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 22, 2012 09:23AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-22 01:05, RevJohn wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-02-22 00:59, sirbrad wrote:
I don't buy any product that I don't know about...
[/quote]
But instead you will insult those of us who have made the plunge. It is one thing to say you are not going to buy, but to assume you know why any one person went in on it, especially to inflate their ego is presumptuous and insulting.

RevJohn
[/quote]
I did not insult anyone, I just speak facts regarding blind purchasing in general. Some people need a wake up call and should not be so fast to purchase something before knowing anything about it, or who is selling it. I look at it as a cautionary warning not an insult. We'll see how insulting it is if you get burnt later.
Message: Posted by: sketchomagic (Feb 22, 2012 09:50AM)
My question is how long after folks sign up do they start receiving tricks in the mail?
Message: Posted by: RevJohn (Feb 22, 2012 10:08AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-22 10:23, sirbrad wrote:
I did not insult anyone, I just speak facts regarding blind purchasing in general. Some people need a wake up call and should not be so fast to purchase something before knowing anything about it, or who is selling it. I look at it as a cautionary warning not an insult. We'll see how insulting it is if you get burnt later.
[/quote]
Will assume I read your post wrong, and take you at your word that no insults were intended nor sponge balls harmed in the posting of our messages.

And if I am burnt later, I will come back and say, "I stand corrected. Again I had hope, and it was dashed."

I am all for hope, and here is to hoping that the names attached to the project know what they are doing. I, for one, think they do.

RevJohn
[quote]
On 2012-02-22 10:50, sketchomagic wrote:
My question is how long after folks sign up do they start receiving tricks in the mail?
[/quote]
My understanding is the beginning of April.

RevJohn
Message: Posted by: pennjarr (Feb 22, 2012 10:15AM)
I hope this is as great as it could be, it certainly had me interested. But I must say a big thank you to everyone who has posted on this thread. It got me thinking, if this ad was sent to me, and the word magic was replaced with business (e.g. business secrets revealed) I would run a mile. I do hope that for everyone concerned this turns out to be fantastic, but I am being asked to take a leap of faith with MY money. Perhaps the real secrets folk should take a moment to provide a proper response to address these concerns, in the meantime my money can stay where it is, afterall if I do eventually want to be a part of this there is no rush, I would always rather have the cash in my account than someone elses.
And about the endorsement from Steve Brookes, I am grateful for all that he does, but every time I think of silver shifter I just smile.
David

Posted: Feb 22, 2012 11:17am
And just a further thought, why if nothing happens until April have people signed up already?
What's in it for you for the next five weeks?
David
Message: Posted by: Mercury52 (Feb 22, 2012 10:23AM)
Just some more food for thought.  I signed up for Real Secrets just based on the info from the thread and PMs.  After I signed up, I got the little bit of additional info that I included in my last post.  I can also say that folks including Steve Brooks, Michael Weber, Bob Neale, Mathieu Bich, Gaetan Bloom, Tim Trono, Paul Wilson, Christian Engblom, and others have either endorsed, recommended, contributed to, or participated in Real Secrets.
 
Apparently Weber even included mentions of Real Secrets during his recent lectures at Blackpool and around the UK, and is giving it his full support.
 
So these guys aren’t just saying they have big names involved, they truly do have big names involved.
 
I understand that there are other issues that people are worried about, but thought I’d share what info I’m able.  I would imagine (and this is speculation on my part) that the secrecy about the exact people behind the project is two-fold.  They seem to want to maintain the mystery and secrecy as a core aspect of the project.  There are also several contributors, so I guess they’d prefer the focus to be more about Real Secrets itself, rather than any particular person.
 
Kevin
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Feb 22, 2012 10:57AM)
Total secrecy all the way around? Can this actually exist in today's Magic world? This thing sounded good to me at the git-go, and still sounds good to me. Actually, it is sounding better nad better.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 22, 2012 10:58AM)
The Café announcement by them was handled poorly and their website is from the first year of the internet. They have to address this or it will attract negative criticism before the first trick is even sent.

But, it's heavy weight folks behind it and not the ones that release a new dvd or trick each month. They rarely publish anything, yet through their lectures are considered some of the most creative minds out there.

Based on the little I was told, I'm joining. And Michael Weber isn't just just releasing material through them, but has been touring ( lectures and convention ) and endorsing them heavily.

Kids won't be joining this because of the money. It will be serious hobby guys ( hand raised ) and performers. They made an announcement here, so I think they would like as many subscribers as they can get. But I think those that join will want to actually be quiet about it. Just the nature of people that belong to clubs.

Come April I'll either say this smells or give it a thumbs up. But I won't discuss the tricks being sent, which is strange for me as I love talking about magic released.

I'm annoyed I have to wait six weeks for the first trick. It's like when I ordered magic in 1968. lol.

Clarke
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Feb 22, 2012 11:49AM)
A very interesting read here; particularly on how folks here make their FINANCIAL DECISIONS.
Message: Posted by: toberman (Feb 22, 2012 01:15PM)
This whole subject has been blown way out of proportion by the skeptics It's just $12 and if it was a scam you can do a chargeback through Paypal.   Obviously people are concerned about giving up personal info not knowing who is behind it.  That is understandable.   But people like Steve Brooks, Michael Weber, Bob Neale, Mathieu Bich, Gaetan Bloom, Tim Trono, Paul Wilson, Christian Engblom and others have endorsed, recommended, contributed to, or participated in Real Secrets. Obviously these individual would not be involved in ANY manner if there were concerns of trust, scams, or anything underhanded.  Look at the people who are giving ideas and material... Weber, Bloom, Neale, Bich...   They also advise that all of the material for year one is completed and manufactured so it's not like you will get 2 months and be out.   Michael Weber strongly recommended and endorsed Real Secrets to thousands of attendees during both of his lectures at the 2012 Blackpool Magic Convention.  He is very particular about endorsing or recommending any item.  How often do you see him endorse anything?  Also Steve Brooks recommended it to al Café members knowing who is involved and what is behind it. He could not/would not do that if there was any concern about his members being taken advantage of.    Do you know who owns Tannens, do you know who owns Tango Magic, do you know who runs the IMX convention?  
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 22, 2012 01:18PM)
I must spend at least 1K a year on magic, so $144 isn't that much. It's not a time share or potential swamp land I'm buying;-) But, even with my buddy assuring me it will be worth it, it's a leap of faith for me.

These guys have a great deal of pressure on them to delver each month. Come April, Café members will be shouting praises or disappointment.

I've been to a Michael Weber lecture and everyone gets blown away by him. At the lectures, he sells his stuff that he never releases to the general public. I know at least the material he'll give them will be worth it.

Clarke
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Feb 22, 2012 01:26PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-22 14:15, toberman wrote:
This whole subject has been blown way out of proportion by the skeptics It's just $12 and if it was a scam you can do a chargeback through Paypal.   Obviously people are concerned about giving up personal info not knowing who is behind it.  That is understandable.   But people like Steve Brooks, Michael Weber, Bob Neale, Mathieu Bich, Gaetan Bloom, Tim Trono, Paul Wilson, Christian Engblom and others have endorsed, recommended, contributed to, or participated in Real Secrets. Obviously these individual would not be involved in ANY manner if there were concerns of trust, scams, or anything underhanded.  Look at the people who are giving ideas and material... Weber, Bloom, Neale, Bich...   They also advise that all of the material for year one is completed and manufactured so it's not like you will get 2 months and be out.   Michael Weber strongly recommended and endorsed Real Secrets to thousands of attendees during both of his lectures at the 2012 Blackpool Magic Convention.  He is very particular about endorsing or recommending any item.  How often do you see him endorse anything?  Also Steve Brooks recommended it to al Café members knowing who is involved and what is behind it. He could not/would not do that if there was any concern about his members being taken advantage of.    Do you know who owns Tannens, do you know who owns Tango Magic, do you know who runs the IMX convention?  
[/quote]

There are some eminent names in there but we still don't know what it is we would be getting. And with the greatest of respect their views may differ from mine e.g. this from Tim Trono a few years back:-

"Ben Harris is soon to release an item I consider one of the top 2 or 3 impromptu items I have EVER seen in over 30 years of magic (one of the others being the signed Coin In Soda can By Wayne Houchin) entitled "Hole in the Head". It will not be released until early April but when it comes out you should RUN to get it."

You say its only $12 and that's dead right-- so put it another way--what do you realistically expect to get for $12 when you see the tat on sale for $40 nowadays. Economics point to this being filler rather than first rate effects --but only time will tell !!
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Feb 22, 2012 01:41PM)
I'm actually surprised Steve hasn't chimed in here to clarify things.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 22, 2012 03:34PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-22 11:08, RevJohn wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-02-22 10:23, sirbrad wrote:
I did not insult anyone, I just speak facts regarding blind purchasing in general. Some people need a wake up call and should not be so fast to purchase something before knowing anything about it, or who is selling it. I look at it as a cautionary warning not an insult. We'll see how insulting it is if you get burnt later.
[/quote]
My life is based around positve thinking believe it or not, but that does not stop shady people from trying to rip you off. For the most part I have always made smart purchases abd have never been ripped off really because I was able to do a lot of research before buying. So I just don't like the fact that you can't do that at all here, and that you are at the mercy of the unknown product and unkwown people behind it. Instinctively I feel this probably going to be a great thing. I am just not one to buy something that I can't see or review first. I would say I will wait for reviews, but apparently they won't tell anything either. But I am sure it will leak out eventually and go on youtube in time by people who cancel their subscriptions. But Real Secrets does not want you to think about that now. Nonetheless I hope it is a great thing for all who order it. Maybe if I hit the lotto again soon I will take a plunge. I just don't like all the restrictions and how they are pushing the full payment for a product that is not even complete.

Will assume I read your post wrong, and take you at your word that no insults were intended nor sponge balls harmed in the posting of our messages.

And if I am burnt later, I will come back and say, "I stand corrected. Again I had hope, and it was dashed."

I am all for hope, and here is to hoping that the names attached to the project know what they are doing. I, for one, think they do.

RevJohn
[/quote]
[quote]
On 2012-02-22 11:58, Zombie Magic wrote:

I'm annoyed I have to wait six weeks for the first trick. It's like when I ordered magic in 1968. lol.

Clarke
[/quote]
Yeah that is a serious downgrade compared to today's impatient generation who leave negative feedback, and "slow shipping" ratings for shops if they do not get their product within 4 days. I ordered back in the early 80's from very sketchy black and white catalogs, and it took 6-8 weeks minimum. But hey, at least they had a photo and short description of the effect. So this is even a downgrade from that. :lol:

[quote]
On 2012-02-22 16:34, sirbrad wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-02-22 11:08, RevJohn wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-02-22 10:23, sirbrad wrote:
I did not insult anyone, I just speak facts regarding blind purchasing in general. Some people need a wake up call and should not be so fast to purchase something before knowing anything about it, or who is selling it. I look at it as a cautionary warning not an insult. We'll see how insulting it is if you get burnt later.
[/quote]
Will assume I read your post wrong, and take you at your word that no insults were intended nor sponge balls harmed in the posting of our messages.

And if I am burnt later, I will come back and say, "I stand corrected. Again I had hope, and it was dashed."

I am all for hope, and here is to hoping that the names attached to the project know what they are doing. I, for one, think they do.

RevJohn
[/quote]
[/quote]
My life is based around positve thinking believe it or not, but that does not stop shady people from trying to rip you off. For the most part I have always made smart purchases and have never been ripped off really because I was able to do a lot of research before buying. So I just don't like the fact that you can't do that at all here, and that you are at the mercy of the unknown product and some unknown people behind it. Instinctively I feel this probably going to be a great thing. I am just not one to buy something that I can't see or review first. I would say I will wait for reviews, but apparently they won't tell anything either. But I am sure it will leak out eventually and go on youtube in time by people who cancel their subscriptions. But Real Secrets does not want you to think about that now. Nonetheless I hope it is a great thing for all who order it. Maybe if I hit the lotto again soon I will take a plunge. I also spend a lot on magic a year, mostly buying expensive out of print books and parlor effects, and plenty of DVDS as I love to watch others perform and study the timing of moves and patter etc. I just don't like all the restrictions and how they are pushing the full payment for a product that is not even complete.

It is not $12 to start that is what it all comes out to in the end. You must commit to $144 as of now it seems. The other options were not selectable last I checked.
Message: Posted by: insight (Feb 22, 2012 04:22PM)
It's my belief that, as part of the agreement, there is a policy among those who will share the profits to avoid public communications. It contributes to the feeling of "Real Secrets".

[quote]
On 2012-02-22 14:41, Atom3339 wrote:
I'm actually surprised Steve hasn't chimed in here to clarify things.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 22, 2012 04:43PM)
Just hope they are not secretly trying to steal your money. If they did you can bet that the "big names" would not be refunding you. They were only contributors, not their problem. Nonetheless if I had the extra cash right now I would probably give it a try and post my opinions. Bu tI already bought a huge lot of old books and DVDS in which I knew what I was getting, ***. At least I can review these items soon.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 22, 2012 05:10PM)
Todsky reported he got a refund on the previous page. People conducting nefarious activities don't give money back. They're good people with an odd marketing philosophy.

Anyone with reservations about ordering can wait until April. No one will discuss what they received, but will say whether they hit pay dirt or received pyrite. I'm going to take the gamble that there will be genuine nuggets unearthed!

Clarke
Message: Posted by: toberman (Feb 22, 2012 05:54PM)
I'm with you Clarke!
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Feb 22, 2012 05:58PM)
Good grief...

don't some of you recognise the names? and stop inferring that they're going to rip people off...

if its not for you - fine, then just leave it be... its like throwing a pint of water over the face of a drowned man otherwise...
Message: Posted by: Max Krause (Feb 22, 2012 06:09PM)
Hi All,

I too have known about this project but was asked to keep it quiet until it's official release. You guys are in for some really amazing stuff. The price on this membership is unbeatable for the quality of the material you will be receiving. These are NOT pipe dreams. My contribution to the effort will more than likely be a part of year 2. I for one cannot wait to see what these gentleman have in store for us. I do not know what everything is, but I do know that you will be getting much more than what you are paying for. Again, for those of you on the fence I can assure you this is very real and you will not regret becoming a part of the Real Secrets family. Some of the best minds in magic and mentalism are involved. Just think, only those lucky to be a part of this will have the material. Who knows, many of these effects could become seminal pieces in your shows.

Kind regards,
Max
Message: Posted by: ninku10 (Feb 22, 2012 07:00PM)
Ahhhh…max! Why do you have to tempt me when I already decided not to join.
Message: Posted by: toberman (Feb 22, 2012 07:08PM)
Now we have an endorsement by Max Krause. I think most would agree that besides a being great magical creator, Max is known for his integrity. Now can the naysayers go to another thread and let the rest of us enjoy this new venture?
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 22, 2012 07:14PM)
I know the names associated with the material but who is running the site and doing all the business? I am not convinced that because they gave one refund that they are not going to rip people off. If they did not give the refund it would be stated here pretty quickly, and then they would be having a lot more requests and get a bad reputation fast. Giving a refund would be smart actually if you think about it. But I already stated that I feel it will be a cool project I just don't like the sketchy business practices. Secrets to an effect is one thing but this is another.

Also who knows what Steve will do if anyone tries to say anything about the material he may delete the post or ban them. He has a vested interest. People would have to make blogs to get the word out. I might just try it I am not sure, but you can bet if I feel ripped I would not hesitate to go public in a lot of places. But it also would be hard to maintain the ethusiasm if I really liked the material.
Message: Posted by: bekralik (Feb 22, 2012 08:19PM)
A lot of hypothetical situations there, except for the simplest and least paranoid one: maybe he wouldn't do anything? Fact is, they gave the refund, do we really need to dig deeper to uncover the true motivation?

I'm on the fence and think they would do better to just state the truth rather than secrets, but it's probably because they don't know how it will unfold entirely and want to keep some flexibility to adjust things if the need arises; or whoever it is doesn't have a lot of business experience but does have a lot of magic experience and contacts so it will be a learning experience for them as well. Most people here probably pay $6-$8/month for a single magic magazine already (and some double or triple), this isn't much more than that.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Feb 22, 2012 08:21PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-19 11:26, Zombie Magic wrote:


Sounds like a Cheap tele-marketing phone script. You better give us your money and not ask questions or you'll miss out on this amazing opportunity.



BUT...we knew who was running it. This "Real Secrets" sounds like a scam. They are using the Café to line their pockets with this cheap marketing ploy. They are treating The Magic Café members as if they are stupid.



Real Secrets Team, reveal yourself or take your non-sense elsewhere!

Clarke
[/quote]

[quote]
On 2012-02-22 11:58, Zombie Magic wrote:


Based on the little I was told, I'm joining. And Michael Weber isn't just just releasing material through them, but has been touring ( lectures and convention ) and endorsing them heavily.



Clarke
[/quote]

Now THAT’S funny!
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Feb 22, 2012 08:34PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-22 20:08, toberman wrote:
Now we have an endorsement by Max Krause. I think most would agree that besides a being great magical creator, Max is known for his integrity. Now can the naysayers go to another thread and let the rest of us enjoy this new venture?
[/quote]

So now you have a list of names and a bill for something you may receive in April. When I buy art, I get it when I pay for it, and it comes with a signed certificate of authenticity. How many of these names being tossed about have publicly committed to being a part of this, and what part is that? Nike has one of the world's biggest lists of "names", but they are all just selling shoes and do not participate in how or where those shoes are made.

After much thought, I conclude I am just jealous. I never quite realized what it takes to be successful at getting someone to give me the money, but I am starting to learn...
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 22, 2012 08:34PM)
At least I'm flexible when given more information.

:sun:
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Feb 22, 2012 08:38PM)
Geez Ray, did you have to mention Hole in the Head??? It took me years to
forget that one.
Message: Posted by: magicmind (Feb 22, 2012 08:56PM)
12.00$/ 20 days =.60 a day


How many of you buy a coffe or cola at work each day? How many of you buy a book a few times a year @$40+ shipping?

This is NOT very expensive and is no more a gamble than the overhyped, 1 trick pony DVD you guys buy all the time at $30.

PERSPECTIVE! I think so.
Message: Posted by: Bande (Feb 22, 2012 09:58PM)
FWIW I don't really doubt that this is real -- for all the reasons stated above (Steve and others endorsements etc.) My reason for not joining is I dislike this type of marketing and don't want to support it -- since support will encourage more of this type of marketing. Fully support their right to do so, and the right of others to join -- just explaining my rationale for withholding my dollars and hope others do the same. I will continue to support vendors who work hard to give fair demos of their products, answer questions directly etc. There are lots of those -- Mason, Kaylor, Nardi etc.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 22, 2012 10:03PM)
It is not the price, but the hell are we getting? You also must commit to a FULL year up front. Now if you buy single issues for $12 a month that would be different. But I don't see that option. IF the business folds after 45 days you won't be getting a refund from paypal. They are some of my conerns.
[quote]
On 2012-02-22 22:58, Bande wrote:
FWIW I don't really doubt that this is real -- for all the reasons stated above (Steve and others endorsements etc.) My reason for not joining is I dislike this type of marketing and don't want to support it -- since support will encourage more of this type of marketing. [/quote]
Yeah soon we will be seeing "secret new effects" from known and unknown magicians. No description, just pay and pray you get quality stuff!
Message: Posted by: RevJohn (Feb 22, 2012 10:27PM)
Sirbrad,

I for one think you have made your point very clear, a couple of times. SO when you say, "It is not the price, but the [what] the hell are we getting?"

You have made it clear that you will be not taking part. So why don't you leave it at that?

I for one really really really know where you stand. Once again, you have made your point very clear.

RevJohn
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Feb 22, 2012 10:37PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-22 21:56, magicmind wrote:
12.00$/ 20 days =.60 a day

How many of you buy a coffe or cola at work each day? How many of you buy a book a few times a year @$40+ shipping?

This is NOT very expensive and is no more a gamble than the overhyped, 1 trick pony DVD you guys buy all the time at $30.

PERSPECTIVE! I think so.
[/quote]
Huh? So I should give up my books and coffee/cola to get Real Secrets? ( ;) )

Seriously, why do people insist on such strange comparisons?

Jim
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Feb 22, 2012 10:37PM)
I will join this. $144 is not that much money and YIPPEE!!! a surprise every month in the mailbox that is NOT a credit card bill.

Once again you have to look at Micheal Weber. He rarely endorses anything and sells even less. I don't think he would put his name on the line for a few bucks.
James
Message: Posted by: sketchomagic (Feb 22, 2012 11:13PM)
Is anyone who's already joined considering posting reviews and or thoughts about what kind of effects they receive in the mail?
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 22, 2012 11:32PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-23 00:13, sketchomagic wrote:
Is anyone who's already joined considering posting reviews and or thoughts about what kind of effects they receive in the mail?
[/quote]

I will say if I like the program or I don't, but I won't discuss the effects. Kind of defeats joining an exclusive magic club. I enjoy doing reviewing magic released to the general public. But I get an unpublished Michael Weber effect, I won't discuss it. That goes for the rest of the magic that comes monthly.

Clarke
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Feb 23, 2012 07:48AM)
You mean that you don't expect to see some of the Real Secrets effects on Ebay?

I'll state right now that shortly after the beginning of April I expect that it will be posted and/or blogged all over the Net exactly who is behind RealSecrets.org and what effects were sent.

For a community that supposedly keeps its "secrets" secret, magicians are an amazingly talkative bunch.

Jim
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Feb 23, 2012 09:40AM)
Just to let everyone know, a friend ordered this for me because I didn't have Paypal. He also requested a refund immediately after. He still has NOT heard back. He is filing a complaint with Paypal. One person may have got a refund, but it seems I am having difficulty. Paypal, I believe has frozen the cash.

Listen folks, scam or no scam, this is rather pathetic advertising. Is this really how you want to be buying your magic from now on? At first I though the whole secrecy thing was a promotional stunt, but it's becoming more suspicious that the people behind this have things to hide.

Their unverified paypal account means that they do not have a bank account to it. Paypal can only refund from their paypal account. Three days later, and I believe that my friend has been ripped off. Someone else here got a refund, or so they said.

So far, a paypal dispute was opened 3 days ago with no reply or refund yet. Now that I'm posting it on the Café, what do you think the chances of getting a refund are now?

As far as those who are endorsing this product. Big deal!!! I don't care to know who endorses it as I want to know who is taking my money. Who am I supporting? I've seen oine specific person endorse everything he gets paid money to endorse, regardless if people get ripped off or not. I can assure you that at least one of those endorsers does it for just the money, and has endorsed things in the past where people got ripped off from.

No is saying this is a scam, only those who like to wear rose colored glasses. What is being said is, "if it walks like a duck, quaks like like a duck, most times it's a duck". This surely sounds like a scam. They are doing everything that a scammer would do. They are raising all the same red flags as a scammer would. We are concerned that this is some kind of scam. We are not saying it is, we are saying that we are concerned it is. Big difference.

The issue with the free website they have is that any information you give it is not encypted, and is openly shared on the net. If you don't mind giving away your personal information, making you an easy target for identity thief, then that's someone's choice. You don't have to give banking info to have someone steal your indentity.

They have set things up in a very cheap way. For a group of people who say they are proud of their project, they go and use a free website, and free email. Wouldn't anyone want a bit more security that that. What if they do decide to just up and go. Others just like them have done exactly that in the past, leaving customers ripped off. And, here we are again, this time they keep their identity secret so you can't track them down.

They make huge efforts to cover up who they are, but they take no time to address the security issues on their website. And those of us who are skeptic about this should just go away. I for one would like to see this whole thing out, but their are too many gullible people in the magic community. I'm surprised that people still swallow this kind of stuff up, even after watching the last two ripping people off. What if these are the same people? Arrrg
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Feb 23, 2012 10:37AM)
As it says in the trading section headers: caveat emptor.

For me, is subscribing to any publication going to turn me into the greatest? No. Would a personal lesson with Vernon do that? No.

Is there enough material and advice in the pubic domain available to help me achieve my potential? Yes.

Caveat emptor, folks, for different reasons than those stated above.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Feb 23, 2012 12:35PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-23 00:32, Zombie Magic wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-02-23 00:13, sketchomagic wrote:
Is anyone who's already joined considering posting reviews and or thoughts about what kind of effects they receive in the mail?
[/quote]
I will say if I like the program or I don't, but I won't discuss the effects. Kind of defeats joining an exclusive magic club. I enjoy doing reviewing magic released to the general public. But I get an unpublished Michael Weber effect, I won't discuss it. That goes for the rest of the magic that comes monthly.

Clarke
[/quote]
So THAT'S how we could have gotten the Masked Magician to shut up, just told him it was secret! Who da thunk???
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Feb 23, 2012 02:42PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-23 10:40, GaryLee wrote:
Just to let everyone know, a friend ordered this for me because I didn't have Paypal. He also requested a refund immediately after. He still has NOT heard back. He is filing a complaint with Paypal. One person may have got a refund, but it seems I am having difficulty. Paypal, I believe has frozen the cash.

Listen folks, scam or no scam, this is rather pathetic advertising. Is this really how you want to be buying your magic from now on? At first I though the whole secrecy thing was a promotional stunt, but it's becoming more suspicious that the people behind this have things to hide.

Their unverified paypal account means that they do not have a bank account to it. Paypal can only refund from their paypal account. Three days later, and I believe that my friend has been ripped off. Someone else here got a refund, or so they said.

So far, a paypal dispute was opened 3 days ago with no reply or refund yet. Now that I'm posting it on the Café, what do you think the chances of getting a refund are now?

As far as those who are endorsing this product. Big deal!!! I don't care to know who endorses it as I want to know who is taking my money. Who am I supporting? I've seen oine specific person endorse everything he gets paid money to endorse, regardless if people get ripped off or not. I can assure you that at least one of those endorsers does it for just the money, and has endorsed things in the past where people got ripped off from.

No is saying this is a scam, only those who like to wear rose colored glasses. What is being said is, "if it walks like a duck, quaks like like a duck, most times it's a duck". This surely sounds like a scam. They are doing everything that a scammer would do. They are raising all the same red flags as a scammer would. We are concerned that this is some kind of scam. We are not saying it is, we are saying that we are concerned it is. Big difference.

The issue with the free website they have is that any information you give it is not encypted, and is openly shared on the net. If you don't mind giving away your personal information, making you an easy target for identity thief, then that's someone's choice. You don't have to give banking info to have someone steal your indentity.

They have set things up in a very cheap way. For a group of people who say they are proud of their project, they go and use a free website, and free email. Wouldn't anyone want a bit more security that that. What if they do decide to just up and go. Others just like them have done exactly that in the past, leaving customers ripped off. And, here we are again, this time they keep their identity secret so you can't track them down.

They make huge efforts to cover up who they are, but they take no time to address the security issues on their website. And those of us who are skeptic about this should just go away. I for one would like to see this whole thing out, but their are too many gullible people in the magic community. I'm surprised that people still swallow this kind of stuff up, even after watching the last two ripping people off. What if these are the same people? Arrrg
[/quote]

Gary,

You'll see from my earlier posts that I'm not bought into this at all.

However that just means I won't subscribe.

You didn't seem much bought into it either but decided to get a friend to pay for it and now lo and behold there are problems.

A skeptic like me might be tempted to say you are going out of your way to look for trouble.

I'm skeptical of the whole shebang and won't be subscribing immediately but I'd rather wait and see what happens from those who go in with a positive outlook to make a final decision rather than rely on someone like you who has gone in to find fault.

In fact from your whole diatribe on how unsafe it all is I find it amazing that you don't feel it bad enough that one of your friends couldn't take the consequences of giving out their secure info on an unsafe site for you.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 23, 2012 03:14PM)
Here's what my $144 may buy me: if the project stinks or any shenanigans goes on, at Michael Weber's next lecture I feel I every right to pull open his pants and shoot seltzer water down them. He's a big guy, so I'll bring a big bottle.

:sun:
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 23, 2012 03:37PM)
Who says they will continue sending you stuff after the 45 day claim period runs out? As I said I don't doubt the contributors but I am skeptical about who is running it and the sketchy business tactics being used, if you want to call them "business" tactics. Also if the material is really good I highly doubt everyone is going to keep quiet about it. Many magicians love showing off their new toys, and bragging up what they have that you don't. I am sure it would be tough for them to hold back. That is why I think it is marketed for magicians who want to fool other magicians. There is already a trillion tricks out there to fool laymen. I also love how they call you a "starving student" for taking the 3 month option. Also why is there no option to use a credit card without Paypal? Another red flag.
Message: Posted by: toberman (Feb 23, 2012 04:00PM)
I don't know GaryLee but his agenda seems to be to put doubts and fear into anyone interested in Real Secrets. After reading all his warning posts I don't believe for a minute that he had anyone purchase this for him. By the way, 3 days is not a long time for a Paypal dispute to be resolved.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Feb 23, 2012 04:04PM)
I can't help thinking that anyone who goes too far in either direction this early on -- saying it's probably going to be an incredible bargain, or saying it's probably going to be a ripoff -- is setting himself up for egg on his face. One side of the other is going be dead wrong; in fact, it's entirely possible both of those extremes will turn out to be wrong.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 23, 2012 04:07PM)
I kind of doubt that he ordered through a friend either actually. Why in the hell would you use someone else to order magic for you online? Unless you wanted them to be the one possibly scammed. Would be kinda silly to do that after being 100% against it. I am not against the product and still on the fence, I just do not like the shadiness of the marketing. This is the problem with "secrets" especially on the internet, you don't know who to believe. I think it will be legit as far as the product itself, but I doubt everyone will think it is great and many will etc. Just too many uanswered questions when my hard earned money is at stake.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Feb 23, 2012 05:24PM)
Yes I did have a friend order it for me. This was how I found out the site was not secured. As I stated, the info in regards to your credit info is on paypal, but the previous info regarding your name, address, telephone number, and email address is not secure on their site.

It was also how I found out I was order number 59. I don't have a paypal account so I had a friend use his. I had my original doubts at first, but decided to check it out. I then was made aware of the unsecurity of the info that was shared on their website. The idea of needing to wait over a month for the subscription worries me because after 45 days you cannot make a claim. That is not a chance I can afford from a seller who has taken extreme measures to hide who they are.

The dispute was filed three days ago, and the funds have been frooze until the seller responds. I don't know how all that works, I do not use paypal. My friend had filed for a refund three days ago, and has not heard back.

Make of it as you will folks. I admit that I was skeptic right from the start, but I took the plunge, but quickly had buyers remorse when discovering "just" how secretive they are being, the non secured website, and finding out from my friend I wouldn't be able to dispute it after 45 days. I don't make a lot of money, and also thought when one purchased the subscription, all the secrecy would stop.

That's all I say on it. I don't want to ramble on, nor say things I've already said.
Message: Posted by: MagicBrent (Feb 23, 2012 05:27PM)
Because I suck at mechanical ability, I often rely on the visual learning with a DVD..is it clear that it's always a trick with directions or is it a combination of media forms?
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Feb 23, 2012 05:31PM)
I should also mention about be careful about putting words in my mouth. I have not said, "it's a scam", nor have I said that I have been burned or ripped off. Those of you who wish to turn my words around can check the date on my post of when I mentioned the secured risk.

By the way, I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. I got no financial interrest in this one way or the other. I'm here partipacting in a discussion I thought we were allowed to discuss. If you don't like how I share my opinions or views that's cool, but don't insinuate I have an agenda.

Look at it this way, I could be the guy who is supposed to stir things up and raise controversy. We know how well it sells don't we. Good publicity, bad publicity, it's all good in the end.

Posted: Feb 23, 2012 6:33pm
Sorry, I do have a financial interrest in this, but I'm sure it'll be resolved.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Feb 23, 2012 06:08PM)
Paypal first opens a discussion between the two parties. You are asked to compose a message to the seller. The seller responds and after that you can decide to escalate to a claim. If there is no response, you can escalate to a claim. Paypal will then decide the case, and if they see fault in the seller, they will refund the money. You did agree to terms, so it could take longer for a claim to go through.

You cannot ask Paypal for a refund, you can only open a dispute ticket. They do no freeze funds in three days without escalating to a claim first.

James
[quote]
On 2012-02-23 18:24, GaryLee wrote:
Yes I did have a friend order it for me. This was how I found out the site was not secured. As I stated, the info in regards to your credit info is on paypal, but the previous info regarding your name, address, telephone number, and email address is not secure on their site.

It was also how I found out I was order number 59. I don't have a paypal account so I had a friend use his. I had my original doubts at first, but decided to check it out. I then was made aware of the unsecurity of the info that was shared on their website. The idea of needing to wait over a month for the subscription worries me because after 45 days you cannot make a claim. That is not a chance I can afford from a seller who has taken extreme measures to hide who they are.

The dispute was filed three days ago, and the funds have been frooze until the seller responds. I don't know how all that works, I do not use paypal. My friend had filed for a refund three days ago, and has not heard back.

Make of it as you will folks. I admit that I was skeptic right from the start, but I took the plunge, but quickly had buyers remorse when discovering "just" how secretive they are being, the non secured website, and finding out from my friend I wouldn't be able to dispute it after 45 days. I don't make a lot of money, and also thought when one purchased the subscription, all the secrecy would stop.

That's all I say on it. I don't want to ramble on, nor say things I've already said.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Feb 23, 2012 06:40PM)
To clarify, after getting more information. A paypal dispute was opened up, and as Xiqual mentions, first a message was sent to the seller. If the seller does not reply, then paypal will resolve it. I don't know all the terms and agreements to paypal, this is what I've been told. The money hasn't been taken from my friends account and he said the funds were froze until it gets resolved. That's what I've been told. I've got my money back from him, and I'm sure he'll eventually get refunded.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Feb 23, 2012 06:45PM)
What's your personal issue with all of this, GaryLee?
Message: Posted by: Liam Montier (Feb 23, 2012 06:50PM)
Exclusive material, from those contributors, delivered by post, for a few bucks a time?

I'm in!

Liam
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 23, 2012 06:59PM)
I spend much for than $12 a month on magic. Considering the names contributing, that's a small price to pay to see what it's all about.

I think those that signed up are going to be thrilled with the project.

Clarke
Message: Posted by: Judah Vee (Feb 23, 2012 07:39PM)
I was an early sign up for this. I trust Steve B endorsing this. I like the lack of fanfare and flash on the website. It a basic no frill site, which I like alot. reminds me of the old days of no rock music blaring, no flashy effects, no extra hype. Its almost like an old shop with the wonder. I hope I am pleasantly surprised and it goes on for a decade. And if you are too worried about the security of the site, Google yourself. Chances are your name and number and address are already out there. Sad, but true.

Just my 2 cents,

-J-
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Feb 23, 2012 10:08PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-23 19:40, GaryLee wrote:
To clarify, after getting more information. A paypal dispute was opened up, and as Xiqual mentions, first a message was sent to the seller. If the seller does not reply, then paypal will resolve it. I don't know all the terms and agreements to paypal, this is what I've been told. The money hasn't been taken from my friends account and he said the funds were froze until it gets resolved. That's what I've been told. I've got my money back from him, and I'm sure he'll eventually get refunded.
[/quote]
You took your money back from your friend before he got his refund? :wow:
Message: Posted by: silverking (Feb 23, 2012 10:23PM)
Max Maven has just posted on the Genii Forum confirming his involvement with Real Secrets, stating that he believes that customers will be pleased with what they get...........and saying aside from that, his lips will remain sealed........presumably in the spirit of the undertaking.

Personally, it sounds like some very cool things from some guys who generally don't do a whole lot of sharing.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 23, 2012 10:30PM)
So you got your money back and your friend potentially ripped off for a product were dead against form the beginning? :lol: The 45 day thing was also my concern, and the fact that you have to commit to $144 in full for a year, not $12 a month, and recurring billing. Just seems like the whole thing is a money making machine designed to milk overly-curious magicians dry. That said if I had a lot of extra money I would try it just to see how great the material is. What if I oder after April, or can't I? If I ordered in June would I get the back issues that way?
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 23, 2012 10:42PM)
I think this is going to be very successful and the price could go up. If it hits its potential, I know many people that would pay $350 a year to be in an exclusive club that each month, delivered to your door, you got a piece of magic that would elevate what you do.

Seem a high price? A new one trick dvd purchased per month amounts to that.

What would make the project successful is the magic is stellar and that the members kept their mouths shut. They can say how they feel about the project, but never, ever discuss what you get. Creators like Weber, Maven, etc. would be encourage to keep it going if they didn't see the work they shared in the project showing up on file share networks.

That's all speculation on my part, but that's what this section on the Café is about.

Clarke
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Feb 23, 2012 10:54PM)
Why would they freeze your friends account GaryLee? I use Paypal all the time and have filed a few complaints. They only freeze your account if you are being complained about.

Anyway, $144???? Is the economy that bad? The whole "OH the site is not secure!!!" thing is just too silly.
James
ps
GaryLee, you sure do sound like Gospel Dan.


[quote]
On 2012-02-23 19:40, GaryLee wrote:
To clarify, after getting more information. A paypal dispute was opened up, and as Xiqual mentions, first a message was sent to the seller. If the seller does not reply, then paypal will resolve it. I don't know all the terms and agreements to paypal, this is what I've been told. The money hasn't been taken from my friends account and he said the funds were froze until it gets resolved. That's what I've been told. I've got my money back from him, and I'm sure he'll eventually get refunded.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Real Secrets Team (Feb 24, 2012 02:47AM)
Gary, instead of false accusations you may want to contact us at info@realsecrets.org We have had one (1) person request a PayPal refund and that was done immediately. We have not received any other requests for refunds through PayPal, we have not heard from you directly, we have not heard from your "friend", and if we had, rest assured, you would have immediately received your money back. Have your friend contact us to help us clarify when/if he placed an order. We have no interest in being so shortsighted to allow $144 to ruin the great thing we will be doing for hopefully many years. If you had truly submitted funds we would have immediately sent your money back without you even requesting this as we simply would prefer not to have you as a member. Not everyone is welcome. It's obvious you don't like this and want to vilify it/us. We get that with your numerous posts. You are welcome to your opinions. It is not, however, acceptable to give readers false information and that is what you are doing. No one is forcing you to join. We want to establish a positive community where people get outstanding magic. You'll have to simply wait until April to see that this is not a scam. But you will also not be one of the people receiving it so no worries for you.

Also to be clear on the recurring aspect that simply allows you to not have to worry about missing an issue. If you hate Real Secrets or do not find value in it you can simply cancel it before your period ends. We are quite confident that will not be the case.

To those who have joined we thank you. Our goal will to go beyond your expectations as far as the material you get. It may not be the prettiest site and some of our posts here rushed but the material you get will have you pleasantly surprised. In addition, we will have other select commercial items by various individuals for sale only to members. Watch for some great magic there as well from top names. One item in particular we just finalized will really have people talking but will only be available for sale to Real Secret members. The person who created it has kept it very tight and people have been asking about it.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 24, 2012 02:57AM)
Ah so he was lying about the refund. Kinda strange, unless his friend or paypal messed up. But most of the time when someone says "friend" it is because they want to keep their own information "secret" so that no proof can be found. If Maven endorsed it on the forums that would be good enough for me also. But perhaps you should have addressed this issues before it got to 6 pages. It does sound intersting and exciting but I still am not sure about it. Is the material guaranteed every month for sure with no delays?
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Feb 24, 2012 03:21AM)
Well...if nothing else, Gary Lee did manage to find the answer to the question "What does it take to get the Real Secrets Team to respond to its own thread?" :lol:
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Feb 24, 2012 05:23AM)
Signed up for Platinum earlier this morning. :)

Jim
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Feb 24, 2012 05:52AM)
Oh GaryLee! OUCH!
Can't wait till this starts. I know it will be great!
James


[quote]
On 2012-02-24 03:47, Real Secrets Team wrote:
Gary, instead of false accusations you may want to contact us at info@realsecrets.org We have had one (1) person request a PayPal refund and that was done immediately. We have not received any other requests for refunds through PayPal, we have not heard from you directly, we have not heard from your "friend", and if we had, rest assured, you would have immediately received your money back. Have your friend contact us to help us clarify when/if he placed an order. We have no interest in being so shortsighted to allow $144 to ruin the great thing we will be doing for hopefully many years. If you had truly submitted funds we would have immediately sent your money back without you even requesting this as we simply would prefer not to have you as a member. Not everyone is welcome. It's obvious you don't like this and want to vilify it/us. We get that with your numerous posts. You are welcome to your opinions. It is not, however, acceptable to give readers false information and that is what you are doing. No one is forcing you to join. We want to establish a positive community where people get outstanding magic. You'll have to simply wait until April to see that this is not a scam. But you will also not be one of the people receiving it so no worries for you.

Also to be clear on the recurring aspect that simply allows you to not have to worry about missing an issue. If you hate Real Secrets or do not find value in it you can simply cancel it before your period ends. We are quite confident that will not be the case.

To those who have joined we thank you. Our goal will to go beyond your expectations as far as the material you get. It may not be the prettiest site and some of our posts here rushed but the material you get will have you pleasantly surprised. In addition, we will have other select commercial items by various individuals for sale only to members. Watch for some great magic there as well from top names. One item in particular we just finalized will really have people talking but will only be available for sale to Real Secret members. The person who created it has kept it very tight and people have been asking about it.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Feb 24, 2012 09:06AM)
@Real Secrets Team, yes an order was made. And you are a liar to say that only one request for a refund was made. Keep up your lies and I will reveal names. I do not like to be accused a liar, especially from someone who is trying hard to hide who they are. Also, because my friend filed for a refund, you DID get the message. Don't lie, you don't have a leg to stand on. And, the last thing you need is for me to prove who you guys are, and that you are lying about me. Not a very good start. Do you think we didn't do our homework?

Since you want to make me look like a liar, we'll see who really is. You will be given an opportunity to apologize, after that it's on.

Posted: Feb 24, 2012 10:31am
So, after talking to my friend. It seems a refund HAS been issued. It was issued after Real Secrets came on here and accused me of being a liar. I believe an apology is in order. You don't go around making up lies. You obviously knew another refund was requested, and you came on here and lied to make me look like a liar. Should I get the info from paypal to prove you were lying, or will you come clean and apologize?

I've made absolutely no accusations, and have only presented facts in regards to the cheap website, the unsecured website, the free email under a fake name. I've not once made a false statement. To have real serects team come on here and not answer the real questions, but instead accuse me of being a liar when the fact is they owe me an apology. Otherwise, I will prove the real secrets new about the refund request and came on here and knowingly lied about it.

Why am I not surprised I seem to be the one under attack all of a sudden. Nice diversion tactic created by the mystery plants, but the topic isn't about me, and the fact that Real secrets didn't take any time to address the real questions just proves to me that a refund was the way to go. This kind of lying already. Not good. If anyone wants proof the Real Secrets lied about not getting a second refund request, I'll post it here on the Café. I hate being accused of being a liar, especially when I have evidence to prove the accuser of lying.

Posted: Feb 24, 2012 10:44am
Here is a copy of the message sent to me from my friends account.

From Seller - Real Secrets

2/23/2012 20:29 PST

Your credit card information is done through PayPal which is secure and used by millions of people a day. We do have a merchant ID # through PayPal, and it is a legit business. Your money is being refunded. Thank you.

A Refund was issued.

2/23/2012 20:30 PST

As you'll see, Real Secrets came on here yesterday and basically accused me of being a liar. This was a day after they message my friend back and gave him a refund. When Real Secrets came on here they made this statement as well as many others, "Gary, instead of false accusations you may want to contact us at info@realsecrets.org We have had one (1) person request a PayPal refund and that was done immediately. We have not received any other requests for refunds through PayPal,"

You can see for yourselves who is lying. Real Secrets team comes on here after refunding my friend, writing a response to the dispute, and claiming that I am a liar, and that only one refund was requested? Who are you people? I'm not suprised that I have become the diversion target. I'm glad I got my refund that's all I goy to say. I had that much problems and had to deal with Real Secrets coming on here and lying about a refund request. I hope no one else has to deal with that.

I've become a target for stating my concerns. I've made not one single false accusation. I have a personal beef in this now because whoever is hiding behind Real Secrets accused me of lying. Why did they come on here just to make me look like a liar. It seems that some people even believe Real Secrets. Because I am using my real name,(yes, my real name) I consider this defamation of character. I've copied the pages here in case Real Secrets wants to continue their persuit of lying about me, and defaming my character.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Feb 24, 2012 10:19AM)
Gary, it seems to me that whoever made the post was not aware of the refund when the post was made. After all, the refund WAS issued so why would they lie about it when they knew full well you'd come on here and complain?

I just think it's sad that we've become so cynical in today's culture that reputation means nothing anymore. Yes, the Real Secrets guys aren't say who they are... but using a little common sense, I think we can deduce at least one name who is directly involved in it. And I can't imagine he would be involved in anything shady.

Look at the names contributing to this thing. Do you really thing they would be involved in some sort of scam? Would Max Maven really risk his reputation by posting positively about this on the Genii forum. Come on.

As to the website, yeah, it would be nice if it were secure. But all the info I put on there can be found on my website and the white pages so I'm not too concerned.

Gary, the problem is that you seem to have gone out of your way to flat out prove that this whole thing is a scam. It's one thing to post a few concerns. But you've posted paragraph after paragraph about how terrible you think this whole thing is and what thieves you think they are (oaky you didn't use those exact words but that's the implication). I get it. You don't like it. I don't know why you choose to clog this thread with negativity but it's not helping anyone. And the fact that the refund was issued sort of debunks everything you've been ranting about. I think they should apologize to you for saying that you lied. But after that can you please drop it? I'm kind of tired of reading rants on this thread which should be filled with fun speculation.
Message: Posted by: Judah Vee (Feb 24, 2012 10:22AM)
Well put Cameron.

-J-
Message: Posted by: jearnshaw (Feb 24, 2012 10:39AM)
[quote]
I'm kind of tired of reading rants on this thread which should be filled with fun speculation.
[/quote]

Where the heck is my "like" button for this post.
Message: Posted by: Judah Vee (Feb 24, 2012 10:44AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-24 11:39, jearnshaw wrote:
[quote]
I'm kind of tired of reading rants on this thread which should be filled with fun speculation.
[/quote]
Where the heck is my "like" button for this post.
[/quote]
Agree.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Feb 24, 2012 11:00AM)
I get it. But, I've made not one accusation. I have not concluded this is a scam. I believe it's not, but there is no security in place to protect the customer when so much effort has been made to protect the names of those involved in the project. Shouldn't there be a little give on both sides? Perhaps reveal the names after someone pays for membership, just an idea.

I've yet to hear how Real Secrets will undress some of the concerns, and I don't think shady people are involved. How can I know? That's my point. I don't make a lot of money for me to take a risk of waitng more than 45 days to start receiving the subscription. Anything can happen between that time, and after 45 days I am no longer protected by paypal, and no way of tracking down real secrets.

It's true I've written many posts here on this subject, but some of them have to do with defending myself now that attention has been diverted to me.

I would obviously except an apology, but Cameran, as you can see from the time of posts, that even if they were only made aware of it after posting their wrongful accusation about me, they could have come back on and correct themselves. To say that there is no communication between those involved doesn't assure me of anything.

I will assume a mistake was made, and not post here anymore. I wasn't here to start a fight, just raise some concerns I thought were valid.
Message: Posted by: BlueOwl (Feb 24, 2012 11:01AM)
After all of the positive comments from individuals I hold a lot of respect for including Kaufman, Krause, Maven, Reylek, Stone, Weber and others I took the platinum plunge.

~ Nathan
Message: Posted by: silverking (Feb 24, 2012 11:05AM)
It's the interweb......all it takes is one guy to turn [i]any[/i] thread into [b][i]crazytown[/i][/b]......not much you can do about it except hit the imaginary "ignore" button.
Message: Posted by: JCheng (Feb 24, 2012 11:49AM)
Agree... It's getting really annoying.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Feb 24, 2012 12:15PM)
Wow - all this for concern about what - $144? (Because let's face it, almost all disagreements over commercial products and/or services boil down to money in the end). I have spent more than $144 on magic effects I have purchased that turned out to be pure c-r-a-p! And I'm a true, non-working amateur. Working pros - and non-working ones, I imagine! - spend much more than that on stuff that turns out to be junk.

IMO RealSecrets.org is relatively low-risk. I say that even though I feel strongly that all the secrecy bunk being thrown around is just marketing and promotion done poorly. But poor marketing hasn’t stopped me from making magic purchases in the past - and I firmly believe that the magic community has a much greater amount of poor or misleading marketing and promotion than most other industries. Magicians don’t commonly use PR firms or consultants because they feel that none are savvy enough to the unique nuances of the magic market. And so they dream up their own marketing ideas - most of which are actually old and failed concepts that the real marketing world has tested and found wanting. Yet if we as magicians, professional or amateur, want to continue buying the "latest and greatest" magic products on the open market we must be tolerant of the marketing that comes with it!

All this complaining about how this new subscription service is operating will most likely not have much - if any - effect on how these types of services or products are marketed to magicians. They will continue to be corny, lacking in technical expertise (the marketing, not the magic), and somewhat frustrating to purchase. But if we want to take part, we have to play the game as they make it available.

Hopefully that is all I have to say on this topic. (But... you never really know... ;) )

Thanks!

Jim
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Feb 24, 2012 12:19PM)
NOW we hear from The Real Secrets Team? Honestly, we still don't know WHO is involved or WHAT they're selling. They could just tell us. This mystery approach just ain't working---except for those willing to throw their money away, oops, I mean "invest" sight unseen or those who supposably know the individuals involved, BUT can not / will not publicly reveal who they.

I'm a Coin Magic guy. Would I like being involved with Real Secrets? I DON'T KNOW! I don't know if they even have material on Coin Magic. IF they do or will, I don't know if they will have material from contributors I trust.

The marketing approach has created questions and frustration. I would think the Real Secrets Team would want to nip it in the bud.

In business there is such a thing as "due dilligence"---researching an opportunity before getting involved. That's all we're doing here.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Feb 24, 2012 12:49PM)
They stated that there won't be too much card and coin stuff. Clearly stated in one if their announcements. Seems like they are going to focus on magic with other types of items. And, like I said, we do have a general idea of some of the people behind this.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 24, 2012 01:07PM)
Did I mention how much I'm looking forward to getting my first effect in April?

Clarke
Message: Posted by: silverking (Feb 24, 2012 01:12PM)
This isn't quite as big a mystery as some would insinuate it might be.

As Richard Kaufman noted on the Genii forum, the secrecy is simply a marketing technique......nothing more.
The names of creators supplying effects are quite clearly identified, and were in fact identified pretty much from the get-go.

Really.....if the Real Secrets marketing [i]doesn't work[/i] for you somehow......[i]don't involve yourself with it![/i]
It's not like there's a paucity of marketed magic available for you to throw your money at! :)
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 24, 2012 02:11PM)
Richard Kaufman joined, so did Tom Stone.

Come on everyone, join up through Paypal. If it's the greatest we all win, if it stinks, you do t want to be on the outside saying "I told you so...I knew it...I warned you...". Those people are SO BORING and obvious in life.

Don't be an untrusting, boring human being. Join the ranks with us and sign up.

This is going to be so much each month.

Clarke
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Feb 24, 2012 03:50PM)
Thanks, Cameron.
Message: Posted by: pennjarr (Feb 24, 2012 04:38PM)
Zombie magic I hope you had your tongue firmly in cheek, as I read your post all I could hear was 'one of us, one of us, one of us'.
Over the last few years there have been so many releases that have offered preorders (and many from big names) that have been awful, complete shockers. So how do we sort the wheat from the chaff? Lots of people are saying this is going to be great, but what this actually is noone is saying. And as for all the posters saying this is only X Dollars and that's nothing, good for you, perhaps if it such a trifling amount you can pay to join me up and if its good I will reimburse you, and if its rubbish you wont mind taking the hit because it is such a little amount.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 24, 2012 04:56PM)
No one should join anything if they can't afford it. No matter how much they trust or like the person, company or product. Don't feel comfortable parting with the cash? Don't join.

I've taken a leap of faith. But, it's my money. It's not a 20k time share. It amounts to about 5 dvds. I've bought that many in a month at times.

I've been burned on pre-orders and the like. Even with the goofball original post, I'm going to gamble that I'll be happy with the product. Those that don't feel comfortable for any reason should take a pass.
Message: Posted by: Joaquin (Feb 24, 2012 06:34PM)
What happen if we do not like the first and second trick ? Can we cancel the membership ?

Also if these are so good secrets or effects how come the creators are not selling them directly ? Isn't that what they do for living ?

I mean if I have this great effect "secret" and I am a famous or recognized magician why should I sell it for $12.00 instead of $30 or $45 or more ?

It sad that they have to come up with this marketing strategy to get our business. Why not sell the tricks every month and we will all buy it after reading some honest reviews.
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Feb 24, 2012 07:21PM)
..Sigh....

1. Yes.

2. The same question could apply to magic magazines as well. What's that answer?

3. Ain't got a clue. Join up and ask them when approporiate.

4. Sad? Why is it sad? alternatively, Why not do it the way they want to do it?

..This thread is as exhausting as the Craig N Dave Stuff.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Feb 24, 2012 07:27PM)
Joaquin wrote:
"What happen if we do not like the first and second trick ? Can we cancel the membership ?"

You can cancel and receive a pro-rated on platinum but the quarterly I believe no refund. Just like a DVD, if you don't like it no refund. I hated Haunted and I knew what the effect was, but I didn't get a refund.

Joaquin wrote:
"Also if these are so good secrets or effects how come the creators are not selling them directly ? Isn't that what they do for living ?"

No, they either perform for a living or have other jobs and invent tricks on the side.

Joaquin wrote:
"It sad that they have to come up with this marketing strategy to get our business. Why not sell the tricks every month and we will all buy it after reading some honest reviews."

You think it is sad, I think it is exciting, different and fun. We already have the regular magic trade that sells magic every month. Let's do something fun, mysterious and a little bold.

I think this will be a fun ride!!!!! YIPPEE!!
James
[quote]
On 2012-02-24 19:34, Joaquin wrote:
What happen if we do not like the first and second trick? Can we cancel the membership?

Also if these are so good secrets or effects how come the creators are not selling them directly? Isn't that what they do for living?

I mean if I have this great effect "secret" and I am a famous or recognized magician why should I sell it for $12.00 instead of $30 or $45 or more?

It sad that they have to come up with this marketing strategy to get our business. Why not sell the tricks every month and we will all buy it after reading some honest reviews.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: toberman (Feb 24, 2012 07:41PM)
I agree with you James. Here is an idea- can we have 2 threads on this subject? One for those of us who are excited about this venture and are anticipating great things and another for all the negative, skeptical people who feel the need to warn us and/or save us from certain disaster. Then I can just ignore the latter. It's getting so old.

Terry
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Feb 24, 2012 07:43PM)
Great idea!
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 24, 2012 08:03PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-24 20:27, Xiqual wrote:

".... I think it is exciting, different and fun. We already have the regular magic trade that sells magic every month. Let's do something fun, mysterious and a little bold.

I think this will be a fun ride!!!!! YIPPEE!!
James
[/quote]
James, this is exactly how I feel.

Also, the 'known" Magicians like Weber and Maven know exactly who 'real secrets" is and obviously trust and respect them. I'd say Maven and Weber are two of the most respected people in the field. Not just on their releases, but how they conduct themselves and go out of their way to protect the art.

As far as a separate thread to discuss this among those that believe in the project, there won't be anything to really discuss until April. And then....what will talk we about outside of saying "I love this project" or "I hate this project". I love to talk about things anyone can buy in a store, but not something I took a leap of faith on and is part of an exclusive magic club.

Clarke
Message: Posted by: Devious (Feb 24, 2012 08:24PM)
This is a project by Tim Trono and he is one of the most revered names in the business.
I signed up earlier today based on his credibility. No worries, money in the bank!
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Feb 24, 2012 10:11PM)
If you think this is too much money to gamble, then it's simple. Don't do it. Sit back and wait for the reviews. But don't expect the "reviews" to reveal any details - no particulars about angles, reset, or even the nature of the effects. Fact is, the early adopters will pay to have a relative exclusive on something that the cautious folk won't have, so don't expect them to give up anything of substance in their comments. I sure wouldn't.

I understand what it's like to have very little discretionary cash- I made $3.35 an hour for two years, while working my b*tt off. But at this point, the investment represents about three hours of labor for me (nothing to do with magic), so I'm more than happy to take a gamble in the expectation of a year's worth of something special. Assuming this is as advertised, you must have some appreciation for the amount of work that goes into creating cutting edge material. I'm willing to underwrite that kind of artistic effort. If you're not similarly situated, or perhaps not a brave soul, then don't do it. You can always join later after the feedback starts pouring in.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Feb 24, 2012 11:12PM)
I don't know if this will be GREAT, a big disapointment, or just meh. But I'm interested and the cost for me is small so I'm in. I hope I'm thrilled with it. If not, oh well, it was an interesting experiment. I'm not interested in trying to convince anyone else to buy into this. I'm willing to take a chance but that's me. If the money is to dear to you or you're more reserved about your purchases, don't get in. But please stop trying to convince everyone that something you know nothing about is bogus.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Feb 25, 2012 12:38AM)
[quote]On 2012-02-24 23:11, MaxfieldsMagic wrote:
If you think this is too much money to gamble, then it's simple. Don't do it. Sit back and wait for the reviews. But don't expect the "reviews" to reveal any details - no particulars about angles, reset, or even the nature of the effects. Fact is, the early adopters will pay to have a relative exclusive on something that the cautious folk won't have, so don't expect them to give up anything of substance in their comments. I sure wouldn't.[/quote]
Personally, I don't need specific details. The one thing I'll be very interested in hearing from subscribers around July or August is how many of them have gotten material from Real Secrets that they perform regularly...and how much material. If a lot of people are getting a significant amount of material they find workable and applicable to their styles of magic, that'll say a lot more to me about the value of Real Secrets than the names of those behind it -- or even the names of the more famous contributors.

(Having said that, I find it funny how many people are now making this an issue of personal wealth. "Oh, well, if you can't afford $144, then it's not for you." Oh, brutha! :rolleyes: Makes me think of the snooty jewelry store clerk in a thousand old sitcoms: "If you hahve to ahsk, my dear, you cahn't afford it!" :P )
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Feb 25, 2012 02:14AM)
There's a self righteous element sneaking into this thread now.

Basically everyone is entitled to their opinion so there's no need for snipes at other folks for theirs, unless of course you are insecure in your own beliefs.

For me its still the economics that don't add up. I can't believe I am going to get 12 never seen before cutting edge effects for $140-- as others have said why would you not release them individually for $20 a pop.

So my fear is that these will be the type of effects better put in a book, but in this case a pretty expensive book.

And then, if I've have got $140 to spare on something I know nothing about wouldn't I be better spending it on something I've wanted for a while but never splashed out on because I'd thought it a tad too expensive -- better that for me than this gamble.
Message: Posted by: EricDraven (Feb 25, 2012 05:14AM)
Well it isn't the biggest amount of money for a year full of effects (so I do not expect that much either), but it sure sounds like a lot fun!
The worried ones do seem to raise some valid points, but imho overdo it. Weber and Maven are more than enough backup for me.
:)
Will the effects be workers for me? I don't know it and frankly I don't worry about it, I have enough in my arsenal. For me it's about the excitement every month and the exclusivity.
I only really hope that this project will live up to its promise of exclusivity! Too often projects already failed to deliver there in the past...
I will see...so platinum for me..."i'm in" :D
Message: Posted by: pennjarr (Feb 25, 2012 06:16AM)
Lots of people seem to have signed up already (with at least 5 weeks still to go) this must be encouraging for 'real secrets', There doesn't appear to be a limit to how many people can sign up, but at the same time in the original ad it stated
"well over two years content already completed, MANUFACTURED and ready to share with our community" (EMPHASIS ADDED) so they have produced something(s), the interesting question which of course everyone would like to know is what? The Marketing sugests that an envelope will arrive monthly, and I speculating it will be an envelope rather than anything larger, because the difference in shipping between US, and the rest of the world is $16. Which will contain at least one effect from one of the names that have been mentioned already, but the effects is rarely going to be cards or coins. If you sign up for platinum there will be bonuses (plural) including an unpublished effect from Michael Weber which includes gimmicks. But if you miss a month, then there is no way you can get it back, so for example if the first edition contains something absolutely incredible, that sends the world of magic into a spin, if you miss it, it has gone forever.

Real secrets have remained very tight lipped about all of this, I hear lots of rumours from different sites of who may or may not be behind all of this, but that is all they are. It could be David Berglas and Lance Burton for all I know, becasue real secrets aren't saying. And yes I have wasted a lot more that $160 on effects that are now collecting dust, $160 isn't a huge amount of money, and a three month subscription is $40 which is a lot less, but at the same time with careful purchasing a whole act could be bought for $40.

Like everyone else on this thread I am only speculating, and at present I have not parted with my money (and have yet to decide) perhaps I should have stated that at the start so that those who would not therefore be interested in opinion wouldn't have to read it (but tough). I think what would help me is if there was a little more dialogue from Real secrets, so far only two posts, the second of which hasn't really helped matters.

This could be fantastic, many of the ingredients appear to be in place, but as any decent cook knows, just having the right ingredients doesn't mean a great dish.

best wishes
David
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Feb 25, 2012 09:14AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-24 20:41, toberman wrote:
I agree with you James. Here is an idea- can we have 2 threads on this subject? One for those of us who are excited about this venture and are anticipating great things and another for all the negative, skeptical people who feel the need to warn us and/or save us from certain disaster. Then I can just ignore the latter. It's getting so old.

Terry
[/quote]
I do not think this would be a good idea. I rather like the pro/con open forum, and feel I often gain a lot from the opposite points of view. Certainly, it can become heated, sometimes even personal, but if it gets too far afield or redundant, it is fairly each to pass it by.

I also don't think it is hurting Real Secrets one bit, as some pretty heavy hitters on the Café are siding them. I have expressed my doubts in this thread, and I thank Steve Brooks for letting this thread go in its own direction. If anything, the back and forth is causing me to come around to the positive views. Now I am trying to decide if I go for the whole year, or 3 months...

I like the way Cameron put it, and I am looking at this as a adventure!

Jim
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Feb 25, 2012 09:34AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-25 01:38, FrenchDrop wrote:

(Having said that, I find it funny how many people are now making this an issue of personal wealth. "Oh, well, if you can't afford $144, then it's not for you." Oh, brutha! :rolleyes: Makes me think of the snooty jewelry store clerk in a thousand old sitcoms: "If you hahve to ahsk, my dear, you cahn't afford it!" :P )

[/quote]

No, it's not a snooty thing. It's reality. If some people are going to get negatively stressed out and anxious over a $144 gamble, then maybe they should wait until others have reported back on the quality of the product, for the sake of their peace of mind. For others, it's not a huge source of stress, either because of their faith in the current endorsements, or because they can afford the risk to their discretionary income.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Feb 25, 2012 01:51PM)
At $12.00 a month it is not an enormous investment, especially considering that the subscription can be cancelled. I do believe, however, that the automatic renewal function should be an option rather than something that must be cancelled. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 25, 2012 03:46PM)
Another thing that kind of bothers me is that Real Secrets says never to throw anything away, and even a stamp could have a secret in it. I don't have the room to be collecting shipping boxes and envelopes, and I would paranoid throwing them out.

Posted: Feb 25, 2012 5:13pm
I also think what they are doing is ingenious, marketing to magicians who want material that other magicians don't have, or know about. I also don't like how just because you don't know what you are getting everyone assumes it is the best material in the world. Positive or negative, this is exactly the publicity Real Secrets wants. They are sitting back "secretly" laughing at all the hype. I am just surprised at how many magicians are falling for it all. It is a risk, and you can't review it in detail, even after you pay for it. Just too fishy to me. Will they also have a separate forum so that the select elite few can all discuss presentations amongst each other, and laugh at those outside the "inner circle"?

The main reason they don't want you describing or showing the effects is becaue they want to keep magicians buying them, whether or not they are good or crap. That is main foucus of this marketing technique.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Feb 25, 2012 05:45PM)
This is just respected magicians putting out magic, and people buying it - there is nothing new, except the marketing/secrecy re: the exact effects to be received.

Those who buy will own the effects, those who don't will not, just like always.
Message: Posted by: MagicBrent (Feb 25, 2012 06:26PM)
I proudly signed up. I've been a member here for so many years that even though I don't personally know the staff of the Café, how could they NOT put out a quality product when their very reputation is on the line. I only hope it's occasionally DVD and not just an occasional gaffes card or packet trick with directions...
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Feb 25, 2012 07:22PM)
I do not perceive this marketing approach as being all that different from the original Learn Magic at Home mail order course offered by Harlan Tarbell more than fifty years ago. As I recall, the first monthly lesson from Tarbell was the disappearing coin in a glass of water and included the necessary gimmick. I assume this "course" is not intended for raw beginners and does not include commonly known effects.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Feb 25, 2012 07:25PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-25 20:22, billmarq wrote:
As I recall, the first monthly lesson from Tarbell was the disappearing coin in a glass of water and included the necessary gimmick. I assume this "course" is not intended for raw beginners and does not include commonly known effects.
[/quote]

Oh, my, what an uproar there would be! :)
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Feb 25, 2012 09:00PM)
That "disappearing coin in a glass of water" was actually one of the best tricks in Tarbell 1, IMO. I'd definitely settle for a modern day invention of equal merit (not a rehash, of course).
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 25, 2012 09:15PM)
If they can be a 2012 version of what Tarbell offered us, we're in for a great ride.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Feb 26, 2012 12:08AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-25 22:15, Zombie Magic wrote:
If they can be a 2012 version of what Tarbell offered us, we're in for a great ride.
[/quote]

I agree. Perhaps the more vocal skeptics do not know about Tarbell and what a success it was. Tarbell was a mail order course with 60 lessons before it turned into a six-volume and then eight-volume library.

I am cautiously optimistic about Real Secrets, but haven't made up my mind yet whether to kick in or not.
Message: Posted by: Roland Henning (Feb 26, 2012 03:47AM)
Being one of the more vocal skeptics I am well aware of the similarities to Tarbell's lessons. I'm gonna give you a different example. Let's assume you are a pretty decent juggler. You know the basics and work on your 5 ball routine. Now there is this guy, he won't tell who he is, asking your for money. In turn you will get juggling lessons. Unfortunately he will not say what is in those lessons. So you have no way to compare the stuff you might be getting with the stuff you can do already.

Would you do it? It could contain just simple three ball stuff and all of the basics you already know. Or it could be way too hard.

It over simplifies things I know, Bu I would like to know what I'm getting. At least a detail description of the effects.

Tarbell did that!
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Feb 26, 2012 10:31AM)
I am a fully paid up member.

Rest assured I'll be giving my opinion here once I start receiving stuff.
Message: Posted by: JCheng (Feb 26, 2012 12:13PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-26 04:47, Roland Henning wrote:
Being one of the more vocal skeptics I am well aware of the similarities to Tarbell's lessons. I'm gonna give you a different example. Let's assume you are a pretty decent juggler. You know the basics and work on your 5 ball routine. Now there is this guy, he won't tell who he is, asking your for money. In turn you will get juggling lessons. Unfortunately he will not say what is in those lessons. So you have no way to compare the stuff you might be getting with the stuff you can do already.

Would you do it? It could contain just simple three ball stuff and all of the basics you already know. Or it could be way too hard.

It over simplifies things I know, Bu I would like to know what I'm getting. At least a detail description of the effects.

Tarbell did that!
[/quote]
But in this case we DO know that Michael Weber and Max Maven are involved (they already said it).
If they were lying or didn't deliver what they promise to be good stuff their reputation will be seriously affected.
Message: Posted by: Roland Henning (Feb 26, 2012 01:03PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-26 13:13, JCheng wrote:
But in this case we DO know that Michael Weber and Max Maven are involved (they already said it).
If they were lying or didn't deliver what they promise to be good stuff their reputation will be seriously affected.
[/quote]

Yes and that indeed gives me hope, but it doesn't really make up for the fact that the business method used here is unethical at best. Buying a pig in a poke. I have outgrown that.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 26, 2012 01:26PM)
I have been in magic 31 years and I am also well aware of the Tarbell course. I did not subscribe to that either as I was not around back then. But I did get the books many years ago after "flipping through them" at a local magic shop. So I knew what I was buying.
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Feb 26, 2012 05:23PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-26 14:03, Roland Henning wrote:

...it doesn't really make up for the fact that the business method used here is unethical at best.
[/quote]
Unethical? Unethical would be if they made promises knowing in advance that they couldn't deliver. It's waaaay too early to drop the "unethical" accusation. Maybe "irregular" would be a better word. Or, perhaps, "innovative"?
Message: Posted by: Magic_engineer (Feb 26, 2012 05:52PM)
I think the fundamental issue here is whether you are subscribing to Real Secrets as a business decision or as entertainment. I am an amateur and so the risk is low. If I had to justify the decision based on return for my business, the answer would be different. If someone who worked for me brought this to me as a business opportunity - I would be horrified. But as for spending money on a hobby, I am happy to subscribe and risk the amount. I would never make a business decision without knowing the people involved.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 26, 2012 05:54PM)
Unethical is "lacking moral principles". That doesn't describe them. 2 people said they paid and asked for their money back and they got it. I wish all the people that ever owed me money conducted themselves that way.

I admit, I at first balked at the goofy launch. It's not 1966 and we aren't teenagers. But people we know and respect aren't just offering material, but endorsing it live at lectures and conventions. I'd say they are putting their reputations on the line.

Come April, if the magic received is incredible, no one will care who is behind it.

Will everyone love it? Some people don't like Tarbell. They think It's too dated. Then they get fooled by something in it and they still don't like it. lol.

I'm in for the fun, goofy ride.
Message: Posted by: Judah Vee (Feb 26, 2012 06:10PM)
I don't think that it matters a lot who is involved. I was in from the get go and am excited. But even well known people can be disappointing. There are several of us who ordered from a Magician who runs around on four legs, that more then a YEAR later, still have not received anything. But even that bad experience did not stop me from subscribing. Its a risk, I have the expendable income, I can cancel, I am in.

And , No offense to the skeptics, but we get it. And your warning is noted and helpful. I imagine anyone who takes the time to read these 8 pages will be informed and warned. But reiterating the same thing over and over? We get it.

-J-
Message: Posted by: writeall (Feb 26, 2012 11:42PM)
Not to worry if you miss the boat on this one. If they are really good, and really secret, it won't be long before someone alters the best effects a little and puts them out on a DVD.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Feb 27, 2012 12:34AM)
Here is new wrinkle. I finally decided to give it a go. Not long after signing up and paying with Paypal, I went into my account and cancelled the auto-renewal payment for next year. I later received an email stating that my "membership" would not be activated unless I reinstated the automatic renewals. Apparently several others have received the same notice, as is being discussed on the Genii forum. At this time, Mr. Kaufman, who has also signed up with Paypal and also cancelled the automatic renewal function, has NOT received the notice. This hints at selected enforcement of a "rule" that was not explained beforehand.

I was willing to give this a try, but I am now confused and upset. It remains to be seen whether or not they accept my payment. They say it won't be accepted until I comply.

My cautious optimism is rapidly deflating. Maybe I should just buy a really good book.
Message: Posted by: insight (Feb 27, 2012 01:39AM)
I just think it's sad that Real Secrets is getting such a lukewarm response, one filled with skepticism. I believe this thread was started to begin the hype and excitment. It's created just the opposite. Does anyone else feel sorry for Real Secrets?

Regards,
Mike
Message: Posted by: MagicBrent (Feb 27, 2012 04:38AM)
I too wasn't aware that I was signing up for automatic renewal.
However, I anticipate liking this and will hold off before I cancel
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Feb 27, 2012 08:22AM)
I'm still excited and I know many other people who are too. Why would anyone anyone feel sorry for Real Secrets? This thread isn't some sort of barometer for how well Real Secrets is doing. The Café is popular but there's a great big world beyond it. From what I can tell, Real Secrets is doing just fine. :)

Regarding the automatic payment: Couldn't you just cancel next year before the next payment was due? If I don't like it, that's what I'm going to do. Or are you talking about the monthly thing?
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Feb 27, 2012 08:52AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-27 09:22, Cameron Francis wrote:
I'm still excited and I know many other people who are too. Why would anyone anyone feel sorry for Real Secrets? This thread isn't some sort of barometer for how well Real Secrets is doing. The Café is popular but there's a great big world beyond it. From what I can tell, Real Secrets is doing just fine. :)

Regarding the automatic payment: Couldn't you just cancel next year before the next payment was due? If I don't like it, that's what I'm going to do. Or are you talking about the monthly thing?
[/quote]

You had me convinced, Cameron, and now this idiocy with automatic renewal. I have been burned on that before. The waiting may be a good idea, but at what point can they put through your "renewal", next week?

Why does something that should be as you said "fun" be so otherwise??????

Jim
Message: Posted by: silverking (Feb 27, 2012 08:57AM)
It's all very easy to understand, as the Real Secrets "guy" stated it as clearly as it could possibly be stated in one of his posts to this very thread.

[i]If you (the customer) don't want to play exactly by their rules, then [b]Real Secrets doesn't want you on board with them.[/b][/i]

Automatic renewals, secrecy, no public explanations of effects, etc........it's all part of the package. If you're game, you'll probably have some fun........if you're against any part of it, [i]they don't want you in the first place![/i].......everybody's a winner.
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Feb 27, 2012 09:12AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-27 09:57, silverking wrote:
It's all very easy to understand, as the Real Secrets "guy" stated it as clearly as it could possibly be stated in one of his posts to this very thread.

[i]If you (the customer) don't want to play exactly by their rules, then [b]Real Secrets doesn't want you on board with them.[/b][/i]

Automatic renewals, secrecy, no public explanations of effects, etc........it's all part of the package. If you're game, you'll probably have some fun........if you're against any part of it, [i]they don't want you in the first place![/i].......everybody's a winner.
[/quote]

Whatever happened to "Customer is King" ?

Essentially this team want everything their own way and the balance is the effects that you get-- which nobody has a clue about.

If I may make a comparison with a mentalist act this feels very much like pulling out the more "suggestible" spectator who will play along.

Well no, not with this spectator -- my views are firmly in the the camp that if I am paying them then they do what I the customer want and if they don't like it then I don't want them on board.

You are being inherently daft if you think you should be kow towing to Real Secrets -- they want your money its they who should be pulling out all the stops to meet the needs of their customers.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Feb 27, 2012 09:49AM)
So those of us who signed up are daft...?
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 27, 2012 09:50AM)
Well, I have to say something about this. Now we have Automatic renewals, secrecy of who they are, no public explanations of effects...

WHAT GREAT FUN!

Magic has been a bit dull the last couple of years. Now we have this thrown at us and it has the internet buzzing.

Come and take a leap of faith and join the fun.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Feb 27, 2012 09:55AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-27 10:12, Ray Chelt wrote:

Whatever happened to "Customer is King" ?


[/quote]
You're [i]not[/i] a customer, you're just rambling on about something you're [i]not involved with[/i].
Message: Posted by: RNK (Feb 27, 2012 10:12AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-23 23:54, Xiqual wrote:
Why would they freeze your friends account GaryLee? I use Paypal all the time and have filed a few complaints. They only freeze your account if you are being complained about.

Anyway, $144???? Is the economy that bad? The whole "OH the site is not secure!!!" thing is just too silly.
James
ps
GaryLee, you sure do sound like Gospel Dan.


[quote]
[/quote]

Actually the economy is pretty bad. Our company is hurting- since 2009 have not had a raise, yet gas prices along with food and utility prices all have gone up. Everything is going up except for workers pay.... So, I would have to say- yes the econmy is pretty bad right now.....
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Feb 27, 2012 11:24AM)
"Whatever happened to "Customer is King" ?"

I think that applies much more to people who are trying to earn lots of money, build a business, etc...

Selling magical products does not generally produce great amounts of money for their creators (I hear this stated quite a bit), so it may be that the motivations for putting out Real Secrets is less to do with making money.

The names involved probably don't see Real Secrets as a cash cow, or something that they need to do.

If that is true, then "the Customer is King" is not going to be such a high priority as it might in other lines of business.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Feb 27, 2012 11:40AM)
RNK,
I am truly sorry to hear that. Hopefully, things will correct in the not too distant future.
James

[quote]
On 2012-02-27 11:12, RNK wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-02-23 23:54, Xiqual wrote:
Why would they freeze your friends account GaryLee? I use Paypal all the time and have filed a few complaints. They only freeze your account if you are being complained about.

Anyway, $144???? Is the economy that bad? The whole "OH the site is not secure!!!" thing is just too silly.
James
ps
GaryLee, you sure do sound like Gospel Dan.


[quote]
[/quote]

Actually the economy is pretty bad. Our company is hurting- since 2009 have not had a raise, yet gas prices along with food and utility prices all have gone up. Everything is going up except for workers pay.... So, I would have to say- yes the econmy is pretty bad right now.....
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: RNK (Feb 27, 2012 12:11PM)
Thanks James! Me too....

RNK
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Feb 27, 2012 12:41PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-27 10:49, Cameron Francis wrote:
So those of us who signed up are daft...?
[/quote]

Not at all Cameron -- what I am saying is that you are paying for goods here and I think it would be daft to let the supplier hold the upper hand in everything. They need your money more than you need their membership.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Feb 27, 2012 01:43PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-27 13:41, Ray Chelt wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-02-27 10:49, Cameron Francis wrote:
So those of us who signed up are daft...?
[/quote]
They need your money more than you need their membership.
[/quote]
Not if you're a magic junkie who needs a fix.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Feb 27, 2012 02:38PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-27 14:43, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-02-27 13:41, Ray Chelt wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-02-27 10:49, Cameron Francis wrote:
So those of us who signed up are daft...?
[/quote]
They need your money more than you need their membership.
[/quote]
Not if you're a magic junkie who needs a fix.
[/quote]

Amen to that Brother!!
Message: Posted by: insight (Feb 27, 2012 03:28PM)
I agree that some are excited, but perhaps more than some are quite the opposite? I feel sorry for Real Secrets because, despite what I presume are good intentions, there has been a backlash regarding the way in which the organization is promoting itself. I know some of the players involved, and they are true professionals. So, part of my emotion is attributable to this.

[quote]
On 2012-02-27 09:22, Cameron Francis wrote:
I'm still excited and I know many other people who are too. Why would anyone anyone feel sorry for Real Secrets? This thread isn't some sort of barometer for how well Real Secrets is doing. The Café is popular but there's a great big world beyond it. From what I can tell, Real Secrets is doing just fine. :)

Regarding the automatic payment: Couldn't you just cancel next year before the next payment was due? If I don't like it, that's what I'm going to do. Or are you talking about the monthly thing?
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Devious (Feb 27, 2012 03:30PM)
An interesting read, [url=http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=262026#Post262026]real secrets?[/url]
Message: Posted by: JeremyM0411 (Feb 27, 2012 03:45PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-27 16:30, Devious wrote:
An interesting read, [url=http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=262026#Post262026]real secrets?[/url]
[/quote]

That was a VERY interesting read!
Message: Posted by: insight (Feb 27, 2012 04:06PM)
Wow, even Richard Kaufman, someone whom I consider a genius in the field of magic, has REAL DOUBTS about REAL SECRETS...I hope that some of the greatest magicians of our time have not been duped into a business deal by a shady profit-maximizing, greedy citizen/s...the magicians know their magic, but do they know about the business practices behind the magic, which some on Genii are claiming as illegal? I hope all of this is legitimate, for the sake of my fellow performers.
Message: Posted by: MagicBrent (Feb 27, 2012 05:42PM)
Too bad the tricks don't release until April....this is gonna be one long thread...
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Feb 27, 2012 05:54PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-27 14:43, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
Not if you're a magic junkie who needs a fix.
[/quote]
Yes, it's a shame there aren't A ZILLION OTHER WAYS to get that fix. :lol:

Seriously, I'm surprised that the anonymity of the person(s) behind this doesn't give more people pause. I can understand the marketing value of keeping the product itself a sort of surprise grab bag -- where you don't know what material you're going to get in a given month, from which creator -- as that clearly has a lot of people excited. But I don't see the marketing value of keeping the Real Secrets proprietor a secret. Where's the value [b]for the customer[/b] in not knowing who's getting your money, who's responsible for sending you the product and ensuring its quality, and who's responsible for refunding your money if you're not happy?

And if there's no value for the customer in hiding the identity of the person(s) getting the money and holding the reins...who does this anonymity benefit? And why? Why do they so clearly not want any potential customers to know who they are?

Real Secrets may turn out to be the 21st Century's Stars of Magic series. It's possible. If it is, I'll probably sign up! But I think charter subscribers should go into it with their eyes fully open...and telling yourself the anonymity of the Real Secrets proprietor(s) is for the customer's benefit kinda runs counter to that.
Message: Posted by: insight (Feb 27, 2012 06:10PM)
Real Secrets has assumed the philosophy of, "play by our rules, or don't become our customer". Well, now I get the feeling that Real Secrets is going to give in and reveal some details. But then do current customers have the right to say, "hey, how come you changed the rules on us, the ones you forced us to play by in the first place?" Seems as if REAL SECRETS is in a tough position, and that there are winners and losers, no matter which way REAL SECRETS goes on this...the right way, perhaps, would have been to be fully transparent from the beginning?
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Feb 27, 2012 07:28PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-27 09:57, silverking wrote:
It's all very easy to understand, as the Real Secrets "guy" stated it as clearly as it could possibly be stated in one of his posts to this very thread.

[i]If you (the customer) don't want to play exactly by their rules, then [b]Real Secrets doesn't want you on board with them.[/b][/i]

Automatic renewals, secrecy, no public explanations of effects, etc........it's all part of the package. If you're game, you'll probably have some fun........if you're against any part of it, [i]they don't want you in the first place![/i].......everybody's a winner.
[/quote]

"Cause every hand's a winner, and every hand's a loser"...

Yup. But daddy done tole me, "son, don't you never go with none that's feels they got all the say-so, cause if'n they be righteous, they be workin wit' ya' and makin' a good life for both you and them- if'n it gotta be their way or da hi-way, you best be out there quik gettin ur thumb to workin', 'cause any udder chance you take is a helluva long ride on a log rollin' down a steep hill"... but that was just daddy talkin'...
Message: Posted by: insight (Feb 27, 2012 07:36PM)
It would be unfortunate if those that are the wonderful creators of the effects have signed a contract with the founder of "REAL SECRETS" that basically keeps their mouths shut. There are contracts in place that can financially harm individuals if they speak about business arrangements (or anything, really) that are deemed to be confidential. Based on how quiet magicians who are a part of this have been, I hope my fears do not equate to this reality. I also hope that potential customers do not alienate the wonderful magicians that are a part of this, but rather realize that the founder/s of REAL SECRETS is/are not necessarily these wonderful magicians that have great brand names and reputations.
Message: Posted by: rnaviaux (Feb 27, 2012 07:40PM)
I've gone back and forth on this. If its a club they are putting together which is super-secretive then it seems like you agree tot he rules up front and takes your chances.

However, for 150 dollars you can acquire some seriously awesome books on magic that have come out recently and have spent a dollar per effect or less. And almost always get a look at the table of contents beforehand as well as some reviews of the book. And for the most part no worries about performing said material.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Feb 27, 2012 08:30PM)
Funny,
I joined the Genii online to access the old issues of Genii. I paid $200 for a "lifetime" membership. I joined in 2007,
I used it occasionally to research effects and then suddenly two months ago I could not access the site.

I emailed Richard Kaufman who informed me they were closing the lifetime memberships but I could subscribe to Genii For $60 a year and use a pro-rated refund to start my subscription. I took a partial refund and closed my account.

So Mr. Kaufman has little room to speak about sour deals.
James


[quote]
On 2012-02-27 17:06, insight wrote:
Wow, even Richard Kaufman, someone whom I consider a genius in the field of magic, has REAL DOUBTS about REAL SECRETS...I hope that some of the greatest magicians of our time have not been duped into a business deal by a shady profit-maximizing, greedy citizen/s...the magicians know their magic, but do they know about the business practices behind the magic, which some on Genii are claiming as illegal? I hope all of this is legitimate, for the sake of my fellow performers.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: shaunproof (Feb 27, 2012 09:13PM)
[quote]
Regarding the automatic payment: Couldn't you just cancel next year before the next payment was due? If I don't like it, that's what I'm going to do. Or are you talking about the monthly thing?
[/quote]

Well cancelling it after you make the first yearly payment is indeed cancelling it before the next payment is due -- a year in advance, but true. Why should you have auto-renew on when you haven't even received an issue. Wouldn't it make sense to have the auto-renew on after you receive a few issues and are happy with the product?

Why are they insisting that auto-renew be on? How does that benefit the customer?
Message: Posted by: writeall (Feb 27, 2012 09:13PM)
True James. It's an unfortunate fact of being a magic consumer -- caveat emptor.

I wish I could go back and reread some of the pre-release stuff on Jay Sankey's big box o' whatever. But I think those threads all got deleted.
Message: Posted by: shaunproof (Feb 27, 2012 09:15PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-27 22:13, writeall wrote:
I wish I could go back and reread some of the pre-release stuff on Jay Sankey's big box o' whatever. But I think those threads all got deleted.
[/quote]

Don't worry -- this thread won't make it long.
Message: Posted by: Dan McLean (Feb 27, 2012 10:15PM)
To me, there is no question here. If you don't like it, don't join.
My issue as someone who has joined is how in the world they will keep what they forward to their subscribers secret? History proves that a high price tag does not stop torrents and illegal downloads. That should prove interesting.
Regardless I'm betting $144 on names like Mike Weber and Max Maven.
I like my chances.
Message: Posted by: davidpaul$ (Feb 27, 2012 10:59PM)
My money is staying in my pocket. Besides, I have more magic dvds, books and effects that I could never get around to performing in ten lifetimes. Yes it's fun do learn new techniques and ideas. I just don't like the way this is being handled in many respects. Does anyone remember "The Lecture Network" that went down the tubes with all the big name endorsements?

I do hope that those of you that joined are happy with with what is being offered as well as how your money is being handled regarding the special automatic payments. Good luck :goodluck: seriously!
Message: Posted by: edh (Feb 27, 2012 11:18PM)
Very suspicious if you have no choice but to auto-renew. When do they bill you for the auto-renew?
Message: Posted by: writeall (Feb 27, 2012 11:39PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-27 23:15, Dan McLean wrote:
To me, there is no question here. If you don't like it, don't join.
My issue as someone who has joined is how in the world they will keep what they forward to their subscribers secret? History proves that a high price tag does not stop torrents and illegal downloads. That should prove interesting.
Regardless I'm betting $144 on names like Mike Weber and Max Maven.
I like my chances.
[/quote]

Dan, that's the trouble for me. I really want to like it. I really want to get it. I wish there wasn't this bad track record in conjuring sales. But there is and I don't want to be Charlie Brown, endlessly trying to kick that football. I'm not ticked at Real Secrets, I'm ticked at a hobby where I can't trust those who want to sell to me. I hate it. I really, really wish it weren't so.

For all its flaws, WPR gave me a look at stuff and opinions I thought were honest. I didn't always agree with them, but I did feel like I had more information after watching an episode. Secrecy has been abused in our art and trust is a hard thing to win back. So, yeah, I want Real Secrets to work. It's no fun being a cynic.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Feb 28, 2012 12:21AM)
William,
I absolutely agree about buyer beware. We have all been burned and just had to take it. I was merely writing about Richard Kaufman as a character reference to his inability to keep his word. Ironic he would attack Real Secrets when he went back on our deal for lifetime membership.

In the end of it all, I am actually just curious to see what is being offered. I have missed out on Michael Weber's material before and regretted it. Now I have the chance to get some surprises in my mailbox once a month.
James


[quote]
On 2012-02-27 22:13, writeall wrote:
True James. It's an unfortunate fact of being a magic consumer -- caveat emptor.


[/quote]
Message: Posted by: edh (Feb 28, 2012 12:25AM)
@writall and Xiqual, I agree with you both. Expecially writeall. It really is no fun being a cynic.
Message: Posted by: Dan McLean (Feb 28, 2012 12:32AM)
Look at it as a bet. I'm betting $144 that it will pay off.

Yeah conjuring sales can be risky. In general. And I've been burned before. But Mike Weber and Max Maven have excellent track records. Never read or heard anyone question their honesty. I've met both of them. Very intelligent men. And both of them have stock piles of material they haven't printed.

Here's an example. There's a recent effect called Steam. It's based on a principle that was new to me and from what I read new to a lot of others. I did some digging and it turns out the principle has been known for quite a few years by a select few. One of them in the know was Mike Weber.

Now I know this project involves more than just Weber and Maven so I don't think any problems will be based on a lack of material. Like I said, I like my chances. And I've already spent the money so I'm not worrying about it.
Message: Posted by: Dan McLean (Feb 28, 2012 12:34AM)
And I've gotta agree with Xiqual. "Now I have a chance to get some surprises in my mailbox once a month."
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 28, 2012 09:46AM)
It's good to be cautious and cynical about things ( it's how we protect family, etc. from harm )

I'm actually a very cautious and cynical person. I've been in sales, been burned as a consumer, etc. But like most anything in life, too much of anything isn't good.

However, there is something deliciously rewarding about throwing caution to the wind and taking a leap of faith. I've already bought more new magic that I don't even notice the fee I paid to Real Secrets. I'm not rich, but awhile back the wife and I wrote down every single thing we paid for over a 30 day period. From gum to coffee. Boy, does it add up. You don't even realize how much you spend. Just $10 a day ( lunch, coffee, etc. ) is $300 a month.

So, I stopped all the little things I bought each month and funneled it into magic. I sell most everything and buy more stuff. It's a fun hobby and I love packages showing up at the door.

A $5 Starbucks each day pays for Real Secrets in a month. I chose magic over expensive coffee.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Feb 28, 2012 10:09AM)
To answer a question above - according to an email from the Team, they will draw the renewal payments at 2.5 months for the 3-month subscriptions and at 11.5 months for the annual ones.

I am handling my dispute with these people privately but so far they have been totally negative in response. My disagreement is over advertising a "one-time annual payment" for a membership and then cancelling the paid membership (with a refund) when a recurring annual payment for the [b]following year[/b] is cancelled by the member.

I realize that not everyone is concerned about this aspect of the process, but I have been burned in the past when an automatic payment was assigned to an account of mine without disclosure to me and a bill was marked paid and I was later charged a late payment fee by the credit card company over a charge that I never knew was made.
Message: Posted by: shaunproof (Feb 28, 2012 10:44AM)
Remember to put a thing in your will about the recurring payment in case you die. Make sure your loved ones cancel.
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Feb 28, 2012 11:03AM)
IMO, Real Secrets is not handling anything very well.
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Feb 28, 2012 01:20PM)
"Xiqual" is James Linn, who indeed bought a lifetime subscription to The Genii Archive for $200 in 2007. He had four years of access to the archive before we stopped selling separate access to it, and it became a free benefit of being a subscriber to Genii.

We refunded Mr. Linn $150 of the original $200 he paid. Considering that single year access used to cost more than the $50 he paid for four years of access, I can safely say that in refunding the bulk of his money he has proven that NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED.

Notice that Mr. Linn states he paid $200, but leaves out how much we gave him back so he seems like a victim, rather than someone who actually got a pretty good deal. Mr. Linn got four years of access to the Genii Archive for $50 (a quarter of what he would have paid if he had paid one year at a time) and we sent him back $150.

As far as what any of this has to do with Real Secrets, I have no idea. I've paid my money for Real Secrets and will put up with the auto-renewal. If it's worth it, you'll hear about it. If it's not, you'll also hear about it.
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Feb 28, 2012 01:30PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-28 14:20, Richard Kaufman wrote:
"Xiqual" is James Linn, who indeed bought a lifetime subscription to The Genii Archive for $200 in 2007. He had four years of access to the archive before we stopped selling separate access to it, and it became a free benefit of being a subscriber to Genii.

We refunded Mr. Linn $150 of the original $200 he paid. Considering that single year access used to cost more than the $50 he paid for four years of access, I can safely say that in refunding the bulk of his money he has proven that NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED.

Notice that Mr. Linn states he paid $200, but leaves out how much we gave him back so he seems like a victim, rather than someone who actually got a pretty good deal. Mr. Linn got four years of access to the Genii Archive for $50 (a quarter of what he would have paid if he had paid one year at a time) and we sent him back $150.

As far as what any of this has to do with Real Secrets, I have no idea. I've paid my money for Real Secrets and will put up with the auto-renewal. If it's worth it, you'll hear about it. If it's not, you'll also hear about it.
[/quote]

Get in there Richard -- that's sorted him.

James is obviously one of those stupid people that thinks when they sign up for something for a lifetime it is a human lifetime when everybody else knows lifetime subscriptions to Genii were based on the average life span of the Short Tailed Opossum.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Feb 28, 2012 01:43PM)
Hm. Four years of access for $50 = 16 years of access for $200. So anything beyond 16 years of a lifetime subscription would be a better deal than four years for $50. I guess whether or not canceling a lifetime membership after four years and refunding three quarters of it is a good deed as long as the subscriber is going to die soon. :lol: ;)
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Feb 28, 2012 01:45PM)
Ray, he got most of his money back. Did you miss that part?
Message: Posted by: boboshempy (Feb 28, 2012 01:46PM)
So true Ray. So True!

http://www.knowyoursto.com/articles/biology-lifespan.html

PS I love Genii!
Message: Posted by: Devious (Feb 28, 2012 01:46PM)
@Richard Kaufman,
I never liked that guy Xiqual...we should sick Opie Houston on him!

You have lots of class Richard, $50 what a bargain sir!
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Feb 28, 2012 01:56PM)
Who has more fun than people? And, we get all the credit 'cause we thought it all up out of the ether! Oh, wait, ether is gone, no? Well, but that's what I mean, out of nothing. Anyway, this latest has added a good belly laugh to this whole thing.

I blame this all on the lawyers. Their college funds required very creative word-smithing, which started small but grew to challenge some of our more immutable concepts. I mean, what could be more encased in cement than "till death do us part"? But, obviously, there is a totally definition to that phrase and marrieds are parting like an over-worked barber.

But I have to readjust once more, as "lifetime" doesn't mean that anymore. I always sort of knew that it could mean the lifetime of the company and when it folded so did lifetime. That is why I started buying more "lifetime" warranties as I grew older- I could calculate the bargain. It just never occurred to me that "lifetime" could end whenever the seller got the urge. What I can't figure out, if that is OK with the world, why do I have to make my various payments on time? What exactly is a payment, and what does due really mean etc. etc. etc.....
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 28, 2012 02:04PM)
@Richard Kaufman:

I have your Pass video. It's excellent, but you have that cheesy moustache . Could I get a partial refund for having to see that?
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Feb 28, 2012 02:21PM)
I'd have been happy to get a 75% refund from any of the sites I subscribed to and folded.
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Feb 28, 2012 02:30PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-28 14:45, Richard Kaufman wrote:
Ray, he got most of his money back. Did you miss that part?
[/quote]

No I didn't Richard but I'm puzzled as to how somebody subscribes for a lifetime and it turns into 4 years. ?
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Feb 28, 2012 02:31PM)
Zombie Magic, I have that old mustache in a box. Give me your address and I'll send it to you for your magic collection. You can put it with all the other "cheesy" mustaches you've collected from the 1980s.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 28, 2012 02:58PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-28 15:31, Richard Kaufman wrote:
Zombie Magic, I have that old mustache in a box. Give me your address and I'll send it to you for your magic collection. You can put it with all the other "cheesy" mustaches you've collected from the 1980s.
[/quote]

lol. You're a good man, Richard Kaufman!! And a mentalist, because I also have a box and it has two of my own cheesy 'staches from the 80's!
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Feb 28, 2012 03:23PM)
"I'm puzzled as to how somebody subscribes for a lifetime and it turns into 4 years."

Simple: The Genii Archive as a separate product (that is, available to non-subscribers) ceased to exist. So I refunded what I felt was a more than fair share of James Linn's money--$150 out of the original $200, since he had access to the Genii Archive for 4 years.
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Feb 28, 2012 03:29PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-28 16:23, Richard Kaufman wrote:
"I'm puzzled as to how somebody subscribes for a lifetime and it turns into 4 years."

Simple: The Genii Archive as a separate product (that is, available to non-subscribers) ceased to exist. So I refunded what I felt was a more than fair share of James Linn's money--$150 out of the original $200, since he had access to the Genii Archive for 4 years.
[/quote]

Hmmm my worry would be that it appears to have "ceased to exist" retrospectively. Somewhat akin to me opening my magic drawer and finding nothing there any more because the sellers had decided that the product I thought I had and owned has ceased to exist. Spooky. Was this some kind of quantum subscription ?
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Feb 28, 2012 04:46PM)
Ray,

The archive does indeed exist, and it is free to anyone with a subscription to Genii Magazine. But I think you know that and don’t really care because you have found another thing to chew on. I guess we'll now hear about this until the next "bone" gets your attention.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Feb 28, 2012 05:16PM)
I wrote that I received a refund. My point is you still have the forum, you just decided to change our agreement.
Those are the facts of the matter.
James



[quote]
On 2012-02-28 14:20, Richard Kaufman wrote:
"Xiqual" is James Linn, who indeed bought a lifetime subscription to The Genii Archive for $200 in 2007. He had four years of access to the archive before we stopped selling separate access to it, and it became a free benefit of being a subscriber to Genii.

We refunded Mr. Linn $150 of the original $200 he paid. Considering that single year access used to cost more than the $50 he paid for four years of access, I can safely say that in refunding the bulk of his money he has proven that NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED.

Notice that Mr. Linn states he paid $200, but leaves out how much we gave him back so he seems like a victim, rather than someone who actually got a pretty good deal. Mr. Linn got four years of access to the Genii Archive for $50 (a quarter of what he would have paid if he had paid one year at a time) and we sent him back $150.

As far as what any of this has to do with Real Secrets, I have no idea. I've paid my money for Real Secrets and will put up with the auto-renewal. If it's worth it, you'll hear about it. If it's not, you'll also hear about it.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Feb 28, 2012 05:20PM)
No one has been "sorted" Ray. I was merely stating what happened. Kaufmann coming here just verifies what happened.
As far as me being "stupid", the only stupid people are the ones that make up their minds before they hear the issue.
James


[quote]
On 2012-02-28 14:30, Ray Chelt wrote:



Get in there Richard -- that's sorted him.

James is obviously one of those stupid people that thinks when they sign up for something for a lifetime it is a human lifetime when everybody else knows lifetime subscriptions to Genii were based on the average life span of the Short Tailed Opossum.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Feb 28, 2012 05:26PM)
James...did you real *all* of Ray's post before you replied? :P
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Feb 28, 2012 05:40PM)
My question is, I have some things with a 5-year guarantee. What does that reduce to??
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Feb 28, 2012 06:27PM)
OOPS, sorry Ray. I did not get the nature of your post. Time difference here!
James


[quote]
On 2012-02-28 18:26, FrenchDrop wrote:
James...did you real *all* of Ray's post before you replied? :P
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 28, 2012 06:39PM)
It is tough to "feel sorry" for a site lacking information, is a security risk, and wants your money, yet wants to do whatever they please with it on their terms. I think it would be hilarious if this whole thing was nothing more than a fake offer to show just how gullible many magicians are, and how quick they are willing to throw money down on something blindly just to get their "magic fix". It is tempting even for me, but with no information and how the site is being ran I will keep my money. If that is what they what they want, great. But the cusotmer is always right not a shody, shady website. I would not be surprised if you got a package and it contained a letter that said, "The only Real Secret here is that you just got scammed. Be more careful of your purchases next time." :lol:
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Feb 28, 2012 07:02PM)
If that happens, Brad, you just made yourself the prime suspect! :yikes: :lol:
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 28, 2012 07:31PM)
"The only problem from my point of view is the "quiet" way in which they've made it mandatory to subscribe for a minimum of two years.

Either tell us we have to subscribe for two years or don't make us subscribe for two years.

And I'm only using "two" years as an example. What if I wanted to cancel the automatic payment during year two and am told I can't do that--it has to continue for year three or I won't get the rest of year two?"

That is another thnkg really putting me off the recurring billing. That is BS and illegal. So yeah it is not "only $144" after all it is actually $288. Unless you cancel at the exact right time.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 28, 2012 07:35PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-28 20:02, FrenchDrop wrote:
If that happens, Brad, you just made yourself the prime suspect! :yikes: :lol:
[/quote]

Lol. I am proud to say I am in no way affiliated but they may steal my idea. But now that I see how easily magicians will buy something based on hearsay and speculation, it gives me a lot of marketing ideas. :lol:

"My major issue is that the seller demands a HUGE amount of trust from the customers:

- Seller remains anonymous
- Seller won't describe what is being sold
- Seller demands customers not describe what they've received

AND the seller GIVES ZERO TRUST BACK to the customers, not trusting them to renew without being locked into auto-renewal.

If we give that much trust to the seller, do we not deserve some trust in return?"

Exactly.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 28, 2012 07:47PM)
Funny thing is that the Real Secrets team thought this was going to be so easy, and so many people would purchase blindly, which they have; and I bet they thought they would be laughing all the way to the bank. But the "secret" nature of the website and lack of information is actually working against them now and making many want refunds. If this had been treated differently I am sure it would have been a big success. But their shadiness is placing a huge dark cloud over the seemingly sunny parade. Their greed is going to work against them, and maybe even expose illegal business practices.

Apparently they don't know how to run an honest business, so that would explain why they would not want to be known. And if they are "unregistered" can any of them be held accountable? Just too many "secrets". I don't doubt the material is great, and if it were released differently without all this crap I would have tried it. But I feel insulted as a potential customer by too many shady undertakings taking place.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 28, 2012 08:49PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-28 19:39, sirbrad wrote:
" I would not be surprised if you got a package and it contained a letter that said, "The only Real Secret here is that you just got scammed. Be more careful of your purchases next time."
[/quote]

That would be pretty funny. I'd be happy to pay $144 just to have that story to tell the next 40 years.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Feb 28, 2012 10:46PM)
Richard Kaufman,
You are so incredibly arrogant it is amazing! Good deed? You cancelled our agreement with no warning to me. I found out on my own when I tried to log in.

I NEVER would have paid $50 a year for your service. Even $50 for four years, which I hardly ever used really. I thought lifetime for $200 was good but other than that I did not care.

You advertised the deal, I agreed, signed to your terms, then you want more money so you cancel and give me back $150. All the while telling me to become a subscriber and I can still use the online forum.

Sure, YOU think it is a good deal. YOU broke your promise and now try to make me look like a jerk for complaining about it.
You are the one that cannot keep a promise.
James

[quote]
On 2012-02-28 14:20, Richard Kaufman wrote:

We refunded Mr. Linn $150 of the original $200 he paid. Considering that single year access used to cost more than the $50 he paid for four years of access, I can safely say that in refunding the bulk of his money he has proven that NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED.

Notice that Mr. Linn states he paid $200, but leaves out how much we gave him back so he seems like a victim, rather than someone who actually got a pretty good deal. Mr. Linn got four years of access to the Genii Archive for $50 (a quarter of what he would have paid if he had paid one year at a time) and we sent him back $150.

As far as what any of this has to do with Real Secrets, I have no idea. I've paid my money for Real Secrets and will put up with the auto-renewal. If it's worth it, you'll hear about it. If it's not, you'll also hear about it.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Feb 29, 2012 12:55AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-28 23:46, Xiqual wrote:
Good deed? You cancelled our agreement with no warning to me. I found out on my own when I tried to log in.

I NEVER would have paid $50 a year for your service. Even $50 for four years, which I hardly ever used really. I thought lifetime for $200 was good but other than that I did not care.

You advertised the deal, I agreed, signed to your terms, then you want more money so you cancel and give me back $150. All the while telling me to become a subscriber and I can still use the online forum.

Sure, YOU think it is a good deal. YOU broke your promise and now try to make me look like a jerk for complaining about it.
You are the one that cannot keep a promise.
James

[/quote]

Gotta go with James on this one. No reason that Genii couldn't have honored both the subscriber deal and the previous lifetime memberships.

Kind of reminds me of an interview with a Senator on NPR last year - the interviewer was asking how a current settlement with Native American tribes squared with existing treaties. The Senator chuckled and said, "Matt, those treaties are pretty old. I'm not sure they're valid anymore."
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 29, 2012 01:47AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-28 21:49, Zombie Magic wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-02-28 19:39, sirbrad wrote:
" I would not be surprised if you got a package and it contained a letter that said, "The only Real Secret here is that you just got scammed. Be more careful of your purchases next time."
[/quote]

That would be pretty funny. I'd be happy to pay $144 just to have that story to tell the next 40 years.
[/quote]

I am sure you will also have the same recurring payment for 40 years lol. Would also be funny if the message said "You silly, self-righteous, impulse buying magician! Just how many tricks do you really need? Go pick up Tarbell. That is your secret for this month." "Oh yeah one more thing, I have a golden bridge in Africa to sell you also if interested." :lol: I bet they also send an empty box, which would enrage many magicians. Until they have to chase down the garbage man to dig it out of the garbage truck in search of the hidden card gaff that was placed inside the cardboard. :lol:
Message: Posted by: Jim Sparx (Feb 29, 2012 08:51AM)
Or better yet, Real Secrets is being brought to you by.......

Val Valentino
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Feb 29, 2012 10:57AM)
Ha= "by jove, I think he's got it!!"
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Feb 29, 2012 10:59AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-29 09:51, spartacus wrote:
Or better yet, Real Secrets is being brought to you by.......

Val Valentino
[/quote]

At least it would be by someone that actually performs.

On his Fox show, when he vanished that little red silk, I freaked out. Then he tipped it. I never thought a forklift behind a curtain could do that. Went right out and bought one.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Feb 29, 2012 02:26PM)
I remember being scammed by http://www.forworkersonly.com

Anyone remember that? An idea by a magic 'name' that ultimately failed to deliver what was promised.

However I obviously haven't learnt anything. I signed up for Real Secrets after Michael Weber sold me on it in Blackpool.

Once bitten, twice a fool? Hopefully not.
Message: Posted by: Markymark (Feb 29, 2012 02:56PM)
Workersonly.com was'nt a scam.$20.00 for a year of tips,reviews and great jokes from Michael Close was very far from being a scam.
Even Paul Wilson and Michael Weber popped in there.
I know it was supposed to run longer but I easily got $20.00 worth from it over the course of a year.
Yes $20.00 was all it cost.
I bought the great joke book and I saved and printed off a lot more jokes as an 'extra' to the book.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Feb 29, 2012 03:02PM)
Looks like you were the lone voice...

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=251897&forum=30&85&start=60

Let's get back on topic though.

I'm looking forward to my first Real Secrets package.
Message: Posted by: Bob_Hummer (Feb 29, 2012 05:13PM)
It would have being nice if the Michael Close site had lasted longer since I really enjoyed being a member. But for the time I was there it was worth a lot more that $20. The real rip-offs in magic are the crappy over-hyped downloads.

Anyway - sorry for going off topic. I just think Michael has done a lot of good for magic. And to use that forum to attack him is unfair since most of the members were pretty happy with what they got. He became editor of MUM, and life got in the way. These things happen. Besides - 20 bucks? I don't think anyone got rich off that site...

Joe
Message: Posted by: Markymark (Feb 29, 2012 06:04PM)
Exactly.Thank you Bob,I'm not a lone voice. Let's get back on topic...in a month! When there will be something worthwhile to post!
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Feb 29, 2012 06:42PM)
I bet also there will be a "Real Secrets Masked Magician" on youtube who reveals what you get and the secrets behind them. It would just be too tempting not to. :lol:
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Feb 29, 2012 07:07PM)
The best thing about all the secrecy: Those of us who are too cautious with our money to jump blindly into this deal will never know what any of the subscribers got for their cash...so we'll never be in a position to regret not having subscribed. :P
Message: Posted by: edh (Feb 29, 2012 07:54PM)
20 bucks for what? He bowed out after how long?

Aw...yes though we forgive and forget. So now it's 144 dollars plus auto renewal for an extra year, that nobody knows what is in store for them, and nobody says they remember how they got ripped off before with mags and subsriptions.

Nothing to know what you get, nothing to know who is behind this. I've got to say magicians are the most easily fooled...more so than there audience. :)

Oh well...
Message: Posted by: shaunproof (Feb 29, 2012 09:26PM)
Why take the risk? I'm sure we can all easily find a way to spend $144 on something we know we'll like, that's possibly better.

I don't get it. To be exclusive? To know something someone else doesn't?

Speaking of subscriptions, anyone get Penumbra lately? That had some "names" behind it.

Magicians are the biggest suckers out there.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 1, 2012 10:33AM)
Well, I have certainly added my skepticism to the mix, but would never imply that those who go for this are "suckers", especially those on this forum. We should thank Steve Brooks for letting us "vet and vent" this topic unhindered.

Lot of savvy folks take big, big risks everyday. Bungee jumping comes to mind, or the stock market. For me it has been a steady list of "calculated risks" that so far haven't killed me (so I must be getting very, very strong). If you do the research, know the risks, know the rewards, and make your choice, you have done the best any of us can do. I have been "back and forth" and now feel I will not participate. But I wish only good things for those who do and certainly respect their decision.

Jim
Message: Posted by: RNK (Mar 1, 2012 11:31AM)
I sure hope it works out for all you who subscribed. I just can't see some of the creators putting their names on the line to do bad bussiness. Who Knows though, Nothing surprises me in this world now. But I am just wondering why some of the contributers are not posting? Any thoughts?


RNK
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 1, 2012 12:14PM)
Umm..secrecy?
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 1, 2012 01:16PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-01 12:31, RNK wrote:
I sure hope it works out for all you who subscribed. I just can't see some of the creators putting their names on the line to do bad bussiness.
[/quote]
Thing is, they're just contributors. They don't have to have bad intentions for the deal to go bad.

In fact, the anonymous people behind Real Secrets don't have to have bad intentions, either. History's full of well-intentioned projects that never got off the ground or died an early death because of unforeseen circumstances. Do any of the Real Secrets people have experience with publishing in general and periodicals in particular? Having worked in publishing and as the editor of a national, monthly magazine that's still going today (when its two top competitors have been gone for a few years), I saw a lot of other magazines fail because the people involved underestimated the expense and effort of putting out a monthly publication.

So Real Secrets doesn't have to be a scam to end badly for subscribers. If, god forbid, that happens, the question will be whether subscribers will get their money back -- or if they'll even know who to contact for a refund.
Message: Posted by: Brad Burt (Mar 1, 2012 02:24PM)
Everyone knows that this is NOT a magazine....right? This is like ordering 3 or 12 magic tricks and getting them one per month for 3 or 12 months...right?

They have the entire first year in the can. Most of the manufacturing is done, etc. It's not like 6 months in they are going to have to look around for something to toss together. Everyone gets that, right?

This is has spun off, kind of logically, into the failed magazine thing, because that's the most common form of subscription in the industry to go belly up, but Real Secrets is NOTHING like that.

Best,
Message: Posted by: slyhand (Mar 1, 2012 05:46PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-01 15:24, Brad Burt wrote:
Everyone knows that this is NOT a magazine....right? This is like ordering 3 or 12 magic tricks and getting them one per month for 3 or 12 months...right?

They have the entire first year in the can. Most of the manufacturing is done, etc. It's not like 6 months in they are going to have to look around for something to toss together. Everyone gets that, right?

This is has spun off, kind of logically, into the failed magazine thing, because that's the most common form of subscription in the industry to go belly up, but Real Secrets is NOTHING like that.

Best,
[/quote]

So you are saying that there will only be one trick sent with each issue? Do you know this or is it a guess?
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 1, 2012 06:00PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-01 15:24, Brad Burt wrote:
Everyone knows that this is NOT a magazine....right? This is like ordering 3 or 12 magic tricks and getting them one per month for 3 or 12 months...right?

They have the entire first year in the can. Most of the manufacturing is done, etc. It's not like 6 months in they are going to have to look around for something to toss together. Everyone gets that, right?

This is has spun off, kind of logically, into the failed magazine thing, because that's the most common form of subscription in the industry to go belly up, but Real Secrets is NOTHING like that.

Best,
[/quote]
Really? It's something that will have to be edited, printed, and distributed on a monthly basis. Real Secrets even refers to the product as "issues." How is that not like a periodical?

Has Real Secrets said they've got a year of material actually manufactured and ready to ship? When and where did they say that? If you have information that they've actually got a year's worth of stuff sitting in a warehouse somewhere, ready to go, I'd love to see where they said that. But if it's all ready to go right now, why is nothing shipping until April? And how do they know they've manufactured enough to meet demand? And if they've made too much and won't be offering back issues to anyone, will they be destroying all of the unsold material they've already manufactured?

I think it's much more likely that Real Secrets meant they simply had a year's worth of contributions [b]lined up[/b]. That's the impression I got. The most I've seen them say about production is that they are "finalizing" the first year's production. I don't know what that means -- it's pretty vague -- but it makes much more sense to me that they'd use a "just in time" manufacturing model to be sure they make enough product for all subscribers without wasting money making a lot of extras. I'm open to any evidence to the contrary, but if you have none, then isn't it just wishful thinking on your part that Real Secrets has a year's worth of product manufactured and ready to go?
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Mar 1, 2012 06:25PM)
From their post in the PM thread by Steve Brooks:
[quote]The material is planned out for two years and we have manufactured, printed, and have the material for the first year in final production.[/quote]

Sounds to me like they have the first year's products ready and the following year's planned out.

I'm looking forward to this! As for the auto-renewal issue, I already have a few subscriptions like that and it isn't difficult to manage them or cancel at each renewal period. Shoot, Dropbox does the exact same thing and I would bet that a lot of the same folks complaining about Real Secrets have a Dropbox account and haven't complained about it. If you go and cancel Dropbox's auto-renewal, they immediately change your Pro account to a Free account and you must get all files over 2GB out of there or eventually lose them.

Jim
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 1, 2012 06:31PM)
I still can't help wondering what "in final production" means, if everything's already printed and manufactured. :razz:
Message: Posted by: insight (Mar 1, 2012 06:35PM)
Usually, it means quality control. Once a trick is manufactured, a second set of eyes may take a look to give the stamp of "final production"...
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 1, 2012 06:38PM)
I'm also still curious about the inventory question: If they have a year's worth of product already manufactured, how did they know how much to make?

Have they made enough product for all subscribers, or will they have to go back to press to meet the demand? And if they've overestimated the number of customers, does that mean they'll be sitting on a full year's worth of overruns they'll have to destroy (since they're not offering back issues to anyone -- not even subscribers who lose an issue)? If so, will they lose money on the first year? And if they do, will they be around for a second year?
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Mar 1, 2012 10:24PM)
Isn't this the very kind of issue that all manufacturers face? Wonder how they all do it too? If I had to wonder that much I just wouldn’t bother...

Jim
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 1, 2012 11:19PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-01 23:24, J-Mac wrote:
Isn't this the very kind of issue that all manufacturers face?[/quote]
It is...but in virtually every case, it's possible to know who's running the show and whether that person has applicable experience that will make success more likely. In the case of Real Secrets, it's impossible to know if the person(s) in charge have any track record with magic publishing, periodicals, manufacturing, business...'cause we don't know who they are. Because, for some reason that hasn't been adequately explained, that's how they want it.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 2, 2012 02:22AM)
What Real Secrets wants most to keep "secret" is that "$12 month" is actually $288 for 2 years.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Mar 2, 2012 04:40AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-02 03:22, sirbrad wrote:
What Real Secrets wants most to keep "secret" is that "$12 month" is actually $288 for 2 years.
[/quote]
So what? I've subscribed and can cancel at any time if it turns out to be a load of rubbish.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 2, 2012 05:43AM)
Not sure where you get these stats. If you want to join for three months, it's $36 for three months. If you want to cancel at the end of the three months just cancel.Paypal is easy.

Sirbrad, really, just don't join ok? I joined, I am excited. Your rant is beyond tired. In your magic show do you just keep doing the same trick over and over again, cause you need some new material for this thread.

James

[quote]
On 2012-03-02 03:22, sirbrad wrote:
What Real Secrets wants most to keep "secret" is that "$12 month" is actually $288 for 2 years.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: JCheng (Mar 2, 2012 10:48AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-02 06:43, Xiqual wrote:
Sirbrad, really, just don't join ok? I joined, I am excited. Your rant is beyond tired. In your magic show do you just keep doing the same trick over and over again, cause you need some new material for this thread.
[/quote]
I agree. His posts are getting really, really annoying. No offense.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Mar 2, 2012 03:18PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-02 11:48, JCheng wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-02 06:43, Xiqual wrote:
Sirbrad, really, just don't join ok? I joined, I am excited. Your rant is beyond tired. In your magic show do you just keep doing the same trick over and over again, cause you need some new material for this thread.
[/quote]
I agree. His posts are getting really, really annoying. No offense.
[/quote]
sirbrad has posted more than anyone in this thread yet doesn't want to sign up to Real Secrets. I wonder what his 'real secret' is :question:
Message: Posted by: JCheng (Mar 2, 2012 04:06PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-02 16:18, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-02 11:48, JCheng wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-02 06:43, Xiqual wrote:
Sirbrad, really, just don't join ok? I joined, I am excited. Your rant is beyond tired. In your magic show do you just keep doing the same trick over and over again, cause you need some new material for this thread.
[/quote]
I agree. His posts are getting really, really annoying. No offense.
[/quote]
sirbrad has posted more than anyone in this thread yet doesn't want to sign up to Real Secrets. I wonder what his 'real secret' is :question:
[/quote]
Noooo! Don't ask that question! He is going to come and say the same thing again!
Message: Posted by: Jim Sparx (Mar 2, 2012 08:09PM)
Considering the number of my ex-wives, I guess I'm a gambler. I'm in.....

When in doubt, make a fool of yourself. There is a microscopically thin line between being brilliantly creative and acting like the most gigantic idiot on earth. So what the hell, leap. ~Cynthia Heimel, "Lower Manhattan Survival Tactics"

Adventure is what happens when you just did something stupid. ~Professor Bernie
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 2, 2012 10:16PM)
Equally as tiring as the blind support for a blind product from the Real Secrets blind magicians bandwagon. How's that for difference? I thought my opinions would be elightening and maybe informative for those who actually like to know what they buy. But many magicians are thick-headed, yet complain later when they feel ripped off even though they were warned. It is tiring also that many of these impulse buyers lack common sense when it comes to consumerism. But whatever, go waste some more money. Like it or not this is a discussion forum, and usally has two opposing sides. The parade is not always bright and sunny. That is what forums are for discussing apposing viewpoints. Don't like don't read it. Just put the blinders back on.
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 2, 2012 10:59PM)
Brad, your last post claimed there was a cabal of people trying to keep secret that 12 times 24 equals 288. That is not a secret and no one is trying to keep that a secret, that is simple arithmatic.

"What Real Secrets wants most to keep "secret" is that "$12 month" is actually $288 for 2 years." That is no discussion, that is babbling.

You've made your points. You cannot keep us foolish people from wasting our money. Thanks for trying.

Owe ya a beer.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 3, 2012 12:00AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-02 16:18, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
[sirbrad has posted more than anyone in this thread yet doesn't want to sign up to Real Secrets. I wonder what his 'real secret' is :question:
[/quote]

My real secret is that I don't buy magic based on impulse, especially a product that I cannot see or review, or a product that has no info and a sketchy website that is not secure. Of course most who make competent and informed purchases would not call that a secret, they would call it common sense. I guess the world of gullible magicians do not want to be saved. I tried. Enjoy your material that most other magicians do not have. At least you can brag about that and tell them all about the cool effects in great detail. Oh wait no you can't... But I am sure I have material in books from the early 1900's that many other magicians do not have, and I can tell them all about it if I choose, and I won't be kicked out of a self-righteous, elite club that has a recurring bill each year. The best secrets are actually the ones that are hidden out in the open. But continue on with the false hype and excitement.
Message: Posted by: BanzaiMagic (Mar 3, 2012 12:14AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-02 17:06, JCheng wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-02 16:18, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
sirbrad has posted more than anyone in this thread yet doesn't want to sign up to Real Secrets. I wonder what his 'real secret' is :question:
[/quote]
Noooo! Don't ask that question! He is going to come and say the same thing again!
[/quote]

Too late.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 3, 2012 01:11AM)
You are not offering opinions, just hackneyed jokes that are not even trite or corny, just stupid. Some just downright ridiculous and a bit sad.

This whole quote is a perfect example.
"I am sure you will also have the same recurring payment for 40 years lol. Would also be funny if the message said "You silly, self-righteous, impulse buying magician! Just how many tricks do you really need? Go pick up Tarbell. That is your secret for this month." "Oh yeah one more thing, I have a golden bridge in Africa to sell you also if interested." I bet they also send an empty box, which would enrage many magicians. Until they have to chase down the garbage man to dig it out of the garbage truck in search of the hidden card gaff that was placed inside the cardboard."

It's like Henny Youngman came back from the dead. In one paragraph you proposed three different ludicrous scenarios of what will "probably" happen.

Sirbrad, actually, you will never know. Cause, It's a SECRET! a REAL SECRET! No, it's a REALREALREALREALREALREALREALREALREAL S-E-C-R-E-T!!!!!!
Double secreted actualized methodological hermetically sealed secret.
lol,
James



[quote]
On 2012-03-02 23:16, sirbrad wrote:
I thought my opinions would be elightening and maybe informative for those who actually like to know what they buy.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 3, 2012 01:47AM)
My jokes are hilarious, especially to those with half a brain and who don't have a Real Secrets stick up their butt. Keep buying invisible material though that you know nothing about. I guess it only further proves that everything that you have bought so far was crap, so it must be a vicious cycle to break. I was just shocked to see how many gullible magicians will buy anything put out, even if there is no product to be seen. I don't need to know any more secrets, I have about 2,000 books filled with more than enough on my bookshelf dating back 32 years. I would not be surprised if these so called "Real Secrets" were just ideas taken from them like most "new material" is. So I probably already have them all anyway.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 3, 2012 02:06AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 02:11, Xiqual wrote:
You are not offering opinions, just hackneyed jokes that are not even trite or corny, just stupid. Some just downright ridiculous and a bit sad.

[/quote]

You mean like the majority of your posts here? :lol: Yeah you are REAL popular with the crowd here. I think it would be even more hilarious if I actually ordered the product "secretly", and I am just trying to rile up certain members who take online forums so seriously. Maybe I am playing devil's advocate for my own persoal entertainment? But that will remain a "secret." You can find out the answer though if you send me $50 via Paypal.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 3, 2012 05:35AM)
Maybe I don't want these "Real Secrets" getting out there. But what is wrong with a few responsible buyers laughing at irresponsible, impulse buyers who can't go one day without a new magic fix?
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 3, 2012 05:37AM)
I don't post here for popularity. I just post what I see to be the truth. I am sure YOU think you are hilarious.
You seem a bit delusional if truth was told.
James


[quote]
On 2012-03-03 03:06, sirbrad wrote:


You mean like the majority of your posts here? :lol: Yeah you are REAL popular with the crowd here. I think it would be even more hilarious if I actually ordered the product "secretly", and I am just trying to rile up certain members who take online forums so seriously. Maybe I am playing devil's advocate for my own persoal entertainment? But that will remain a "secret." You can find out the answer though if you send me $50 via Paypal.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 3, 2012 05:46AM)
You post the truth that YOU believe so you are the one who is delusional. I post the truth that actually is the truth. No one is going to change anyone's viewpoint, I won't lose any money or sleep over it but you may or may not lose both. Hope you got another junk drawer ready just in case it bombs.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 3, 2012 05:48AM)
You are also delusional if you think this material will never be posted public anywhere or on Youtube. Won't be so "exclusive" then will it?
Message: Posted by: shaunproof (Mar 3, 2012 06:10AM)
I won't have time for real secrets. I'll be too busy reading my Rudy Coby notes (Rudy is a great guy), my Penumbra subscription (Goodwin is a great guy), learning things from the Miracle Factory Gardner book, and responding to threads on the workers forum.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 3, 2012 06:25AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-19 00:35, Real Secrets Team wrote:
As a special thank you being an Exclusive Platinum members who subscribe and pay for a full year in advance, you will get bonuses ONLY available to Platinum Members including an unpublished, closely guarded effect with custom gimmicks by Michael Weber. Real Secrets has well over two year’s content completed and ready to share with our community. We are finalizing all production for the first year so it will be ready to go every month.

[/quote]

Having seen Michael Weber lecture, this will be worth the price for me.

Only a few more weeks before our first 'Real Secret" arrives to our door!
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Mar 3, 2012 06:47AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 06:48, sirbrad wrote:
You are also delusional if you think this material will never be posted public anywhere or on Youtube. Won't be so "exclusive" then will it?
[/quote]
Sour grapes because you can't afford to sign up methinks :)
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 3, 2012 07:38AM)
Yeah OK, I have been a working professional for 27 years and I bet I have a larger collection of books, DVDS, collectibles, illusions, and effects than you ever will. Not to mention several other hobbies that are quite expensive. I could afford this 50 times over if I wanted to. You are mising the point. That is why I do have plenty of money because I spend it wisely methinks. I don't throw money away on blind puchases meknows that.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 3, 2012 07:49AM)
I am going to take the high road and say hope you all enjoy it, and you do not regret getting Real Secrets. I will just sit back enjoy the show, and all the zero discussion and reviews.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 3, 2012 08:37AM)
Wow, what a sad and ugly turn this thread has suddenly taken.

Here's a tip for sirbrad:

If you have to [b]say[/b]

[quote]
My jokes are hilarious[/quote]

...chances are, you're wrong. :P

Oh, and one other thing:

[quote]
On 2012-03-03 08:49, sirbrad wrote:
I am going to take the high road[/quote]
Way, way, WAY too late for that, brad.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 3, 2012 09:53AM)
Maybe I was joking? Maybe I was being sarcastic? The only ones who turned it ugly are the ones who attacked my responses and quoted me, because they can't handle an opposing opinion that is not only logical but intelligent. It ruins their "fun" thinking this product is going to be so great. But even if it is it still doesn't justify buying something you know nothing about. So go ahead and waste your money.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 3, 2012 09:54AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 09:37, FrenchDrop wrote:
Wow, what a sad and ugly turn this thread has suddenly taken.

Here's a tip for sirbrad:

If you have to [b]say[/b]

[quote]
My jokes are hilarious[/quote]

...chances are, you're wrong. :P

[/quote]

Not really, it simply means that I am a confident comedian and lack humility. Or maybe I was joking? But I don't seem to be wrong according to my PM's. :lol: I am entitled to my opinion as much as anyone else, and as often as the "real believers". It is never too late to take the high road, so stop trying to bait me back to the low one for your own personal entertainment.
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 3, 2012 10:31AM)
Fascinating driveling banter (being off subject and personalized).

Hasn't this thread gone on long enough for the Real Secrets Team not to "enlighten" us with more details of who they are, what they're selling and how they're handling the consumers' money? No one can even get a business license without indicating who's selling and the products and services they're offering. It seems either very suspicion (still) or childlish.

I've only seen VERY IFFY enterprises market the way Real Secrets is being marketed.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 3, 2012 10:41AM)
I am tempted to buy it just out of mere curiosity alone. But I can't give them my paypal or credit card number, they are secret.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Mar 3, 2012 10:43AM)
Sirbrad is nothing more than a spoilsport, ruining the fun for everyone else. Go and count your pennies Scrooge while we're all having fun.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 3, 2012 11:02AM)
No, I am trying to save you from getting scammed but you are too thick-headed to see it. As much money as I spend on magic and several other hobbies I am not Scrooge by any means. These people are selling hype more so than the effects. This is EXACTLY what they want as more people will buy because they can't resist. I will have fun reading my 2,000 plus magic books and DVD sets which have been waiting for years. But I am too busy performing what I already know to even start on them. These RS effects are not going to be any better than most of the other magic out there, you are just buying into the hype. This was their was exact marketing strategy and many fell for it; hook, line, and sucker.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 3, 2012 11:11AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 11:43, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
Sirbrad is nothing more than a spoilsport, ruining the fun for everyone else. Go and count your pennies Scrooge while we're all having fun.
[/quote]

I don't count pennies, I count $100 bills. I bet Real Secrets is too.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Mar 3, 2012 11:21AM)
You sound jealous because you didn't come up with the idea.

The green eyed monster is evident in your every word.
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 3, 2012 11:26AM)
"I will have fun reading my 2,000 plus magic books and DVD sets which have been waiting for years. But I am too busy performing what I already know to even start on them. "

No comment. Way too easy. I'm starting to get the feeling we're all being baited.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 3, 2012 11:47AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 12:26, Tom Jorgenson wrote:
"I will have fun reading my 2,000 plus magic books and DVD sets which have been waiting for years. But I am too busy performing what I already know to even start on them. "

No comment. Way too easy. I'm starting to get the feeling we're all being baited.
[/quote]

And don't forget the 52 negative post he has made on this thread alone!
Jeez....I tried to read through this thread but most of the posts all seem to be from the same person.
Sounds like the type of guy that likes beating his head against a brick wall because when he stops it feels good.
Either that, or someone is in [b]desperate[/b] need of a life, and or just a need for attention. :rolleyes:
Message: Posted by: JCheng (Mar 3, 2012 11:52AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 12:47, gaffed wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 12:26, Tom Jorgenson wrote:
"I will have fun reading my 2,000 plus magic books and DVD sets which have been waiting for years. But I am too busy performing what I already know to even start on them. "

No comment. Way too easy. I'm starting to get the feeling we're all being baited.
[/quote]

And don't forget the 52 negative post he has made on this thread alone!
Jeez....I tried to read through this thread but most of the posts all seem to be from the same person.
Sounds like the type of guy that likes beating his head against a brick wall because when he stops it feels good.
Either that, or someone is in [b]desperate[/b] need of a life, and or just a need for attention. :rolleyes:
[/quote]
I think he just wants some attention.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 3, 2012 12:05PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 12:47, gaffed wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 12:26, Tom Jorgenson wrote:
"I will have fun reading my 2,000 plus magic books and DVD sets which have been waiting for years. But I am too busy performing what I already know to even start on them. "

No comment. Way too easy. I'm starting to get the feeling we're all being baited.
[/quote]

And don't forget the 52 negative post he has made on this thread alone!
Jeez....I tried to read through this thread but most of the posts all seem to be from the same person.
Sounds like the type of guy that likes beating his head against a brick wall because when he stops it feels good.
Either that, or someone is in [b]desperate[/b] need of a life, and or just a need for attention. :rolleyes:
[/quote]

Kinda like the guy who counted all the posts eh? I smell hypocrisy all over the place. I thought the green monster was the Café? :lol: Whatever, I am done with this thread as you are right it is "too easy." Too easy to take the money out of your pockets apparently. Keep looking through rose colored glasses. You are right I did not think of making up a shady website and selling a product that had no information. I guess I prefer to run an honest business, and that is what I support as a buyer. And at least I am not insecure to post my opinion, and I don't have to jump on the "bandwagon" looking for acceptance like most in this thread. Hope you remember to cancel that recurring payment at the end of the year. :lol:
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Mar 3, 2012 12:05PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 12:52, JCheng wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 12:47, gaffed wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 12:26, Tom Jorgenson wrote:
"I will have fun reading my 2,000 plus magic books and DVD sets which have been waiting for years. But I am too busy performing what I already know to even start on them. "

No comment. Way too easy. I'm starting to get the feeling we're all being baited.
[/quote]

And don't forget the 52 negative post he has made on this thread alone!
Jeez....I tried to read through this thread but most of the posts all seem to be from the same person.
Sounds like the type of guy that likes beating his head against a brick wall because when he stops it feels good.
Either that, or someone is in [b]desperate[/b] need of a life, and or just a need for attention. :rolleyes:
[/quote]
I think he just wants some attention.
[/quote]
...and a life.
Message: Posted by: insight (Mar 3, 2012 12:06PM)
I think Real Secrets is entitled to do what it wants. It's a free market. It can market itself however it wants, as long as it's not deceptive. More power to Real Secrets for having used a strategy that works for them.

Regards,
Mike
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Mar 3, 2012 12:18PM)
Does anyone mind if I change the subject back to the topic of this thread? Hope not!

I don’t know about the rest of you subscribers but I am really eager for April's offering! Knowing some of the folks who are either involved in Real Secrets or strongly endorsing it, I am completely confident that we will be getting something very special for at least the next two years - and hopefully longer!

As a "lowly" hobbyist who doesn’t perform professionally, I have spent a lot of money on magic effects, books, and some DVDs over the last few years. All of the books I have purchased are excellent; most of the DVDs have been educational and helpful; a lot of the effects are great, though a lot were also.. well.. not so great. But I have a strong feeling that this subscription to Real Secrets will possibly be the best money I have spent on magic. I know that many subscribers are confident because they know personally some of the people involved, and some others who don’t know those people are a bit wary of committing this amount of money. Me? The people I know of who are involved give me a good solid feeling about this and as complete confidence as anything else I have spent on magic! (And I don’t have any special, inside information; I am talking about info that is publicly available in posts and articles at The Café and the Genii forums, as well as reports from Blackpool).

I feel like a child on Christmas Eve, waiting impatiently for Santa to arrive. :bg: Maybe I can go back to sleep till April is here?! lol!!

Jim
Message: Posted by: Brad Burt (Mar 3, 2012 12:22PM)
Part of the problem here is simple: Whether or not Real Secrets is a 'scam' or not is not at this time provable or disprovable. My own, personal, I know some of the folks involved, right now, knowledge leads me to 'personally' believe that it is not a scam. But, all anyone here can do at this time is to assert that it is or is not. The proof will in fact come to light 12 months after if starts. If all 12 months are delivered as promised, then logically the basic assertions of the folks involved will be proven accurate.

I believe enough in it to have plunked down my $144.

The other question is whether or not the material supplied for $12 per, will in fact, be as good as promised both implicitly and explicitly by the ad copy. Again, there is no way to argue sensibly for either position! I may have all the faith in the folks involved that you can have after 42 years in the same business, but heck, maybe every item they send me will be great to everyone, BUT me! I have no way of knowing, so in fact there is an element of risk here.

But, there is an element of risk in many magic purchases. How many times have we (and right in there with the rest of you) read a description of something only to find that it just did not deliver? So 'secrecy' as such isn't all that of an argument one way or the other. If you can buy something that is supposedly "fully exposed" in description and have it be dreck, etc. then .....

The trick here for those of us who have signed up is whether or not we trust the folks we already know are involved: Steve Brooks, at least to point of promoting it and I've known Steve a long time. He's freakishly honest. Mike Weber I knew as he grew up in the magic shop I ran in Los Alamitos. You have Gaeton Bloom, Max Maven, etc. They are all involved in some fashion or they would have denied it already.

I don't logically know of any reason why they would be involved in something that would cause harm to their reputations.

That's all. Come the first of next month we'll "know" if we are happy with our investment or not. If not there is nothing keeping us from saying, "Hey got the first offering and although I can't tell you 'what' it is, I can say it did not meet my expectations on these levels......, etc." Or, the opposite, "Nah, nah, nah, nah, nahhhhhhh, nah...." Or, something equally adult and adulatory. LOL

Best,
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 3, 2012 12:47PM)
It basiclly comes down to personal choice. But, if all those who oppose the marketing and secrecy behind realsecrets stop posting here, the thread would be rather boring. There might of been maybe 1 page of posts and that's it if it wasn't for the controversy. Realsecrets would not even be talked about as much as it is right now. Most of the reason why realsecrets is getting so much attention is because of those "naysayers" who keep the topic fresh and alive.

Regardless of what is said, there will be people who will subscribe. It's not any different outside of the magic world. Marketing in general is created to entice your curiosity, and take advantage of impulsive buyers.

A cougar will spend time stalking and studying it's prey. It will look for the weakest, not the strongest to take down. Same in the world of marketing. It's about making money, and in the magic industry it's hard to make a lot of money. It's a small community where most have to cater to hobbyist because they are the large percentage of buyers. There is nothing wrong with catering to hobbyists, (we were all one at a time). I would say that I am more a hobbyist than professional performer.

As long as people are talking about realsecrets, then there is money to be made. Otherwise, this topic would of been dead 11 pages ago.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 3, 2012 01:02PM)
Richard Kaufman signed up, Brad Burt signed up....and others we know. They may not know who is behind it...but their instincts tell them it's safe and worth their professional time and money.

Real Secrets isn't a scam. Is it going to be worth $12 a month? I think it will be.

Clarke
Message: Posted by: Joaquin (Mar 3, 2012 01:42PM)
I have a question to Real Secrets. Can I get the Gold Membership for 3 months and then if I do not like it cancel it ? or in its case if I love it upgrade to the Platinum ?

I think the 3 months tryout with option to cancel/upgrade will give offer a peace of mind to some of us.

If the effects are so good then I do not think they should worry about people canceling. This will be more of a win to win transaction. Very fair. Try it , like it , upgrade or cancel.

I hope they answer.
Message: Posted by: Jim Sparx (Mar 3, 2012 04:08PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 14:02, Zombie Magic wrote:
Richard Kaufman signed up, Brad Burt signed up....and others we know. They may not know who is behind it...but their instincts tell them it's safe and worth their professional time and money.

Clarke
[/quote]

Hey, what about me? What am I, chopped liver?
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Mar 3, 2012 04:23PM)
Wait a minute... [b][i]I[/i][/b] am Spartacus!
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 3, 2012 04:35PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 17:08, spartacus wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 14:02, Zombie Magic wrote:
Richard Kaufman signed up, Brad Burt signed up....and others we know. They may not know who is behind it...but their instincts tell them it's safe and worth their professional time and money.

Clarke
[/quote]

Hey, what about me? What am I, chopped liver?
[/quote]

I mentioned you. You're "and others"

:sun:
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 3, 2012 05:12PM)
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8h_v_our_Q][b]I'm[/b] Spartacus![/url]
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 3, 2012 06:50PM)
I don't want to be saved! I like being thickheaded. My impulse buying or fantasy purchases are not your problem.

I just can't help reading your posts and hearing Dustin Hoffman's voice.
"What Real Secrets wants most to keep "secret" is that "$12 month" is actually $288 for 2 years." $288, $288, Real Secrets, 2 Years.

or this;
"Equally as tiring as the blind support for a blind product from the Real Secrets blind magicians bandwagon" blind support, blind product, blind magicians bandwagon blind blind blind blind magicians bandwagon.

Just try and not hear Dustin Hoffman as Rainman saying all that.
James

[quote]
On 2012-03-03 12:02, sirbrad wrote:
No, I am trying to save you from getting scammed but you are too thick-headed to see it.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 3, 2012 07:01PM)
Will Mr Kaufman be a future contributor, I wonder?

Good luck to those who invest in this, I hope for you it is marvellous.

The comments on how reasonable the price is reflect the pockets of the commentators. I'll stick with creating my own humble stuff, using the excellent books I have as reference points.

I predict that none of the subscribers improve one whit as entertainers through this subscription.

Tom
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 3, 2012 07:06PM)
Happy annuities, chaps.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Mar 3, 2012 08:12PM)
James, your posts seem just as obsessive as anyone else's.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 3, 2012 09:37PM)
True, but you have to admit, that last one was pretty funny.
Message: Posted by: Judah Vee (Mar 3, 2012 09:43PM)
Here's what I have to say. The Real Secrets team, whoever they are, have alleviated any minor concern I might have had. I am not going to say how, but they have given me all I need to believe this is going to go on for at least a year. No, I still don't know who they are so don't ask. No, I am not going to say what they have done so don't ask. Yes, I am a veritable nobody in the performing world so I don't expect anyone to take my word. But for those that do know me, I now have complete faith in this endeavor.

And that's all I have to say 'bout that.

-J-
Message: Posted by: shaunproof (Mar 3, 2012 09:45PM)
Is it just me, or does this sound like the penumbra with gimmicks and a few less card tricks?
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 3, 2012 10:20PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 13:22, Brad Burt wrote:
Part of the problem here is simple: Whether or not Real Secrets is a 'scam' or not is not at this time provable or disprovable. My own, personal, I know some of the folks involved, right now, knowledge leads me to 'personally' believe that it is not a scam. But, all anyone here can do at this time is to assert that it is or is not. The proof will in fact come to light 12 months after if starts. If all 12 months are delivered as promised, then logically the basic assertions of the folks involved will be proven accurate.[/quote]
Even if all 12 months are not delivered as promised, that won't necessarily mean it's a scam. I have opted for the cautious, wait-and-see, let-other-people-take-the-risk route 'cause I'm not comfortable with the fact that the Real Secrets people don't want us to know who they are -- but if Real Secrets should fall apart for unforeseen reasons, despite the best, most sincere efforts of whoever's behind it, I hope people won't rush to label it a scam.

If the principals skip the country with the loot, ripping everybody off and embarrassing the contributors, then sure -- it's a scam. But if it's just a case of These Things Happen, then hopefully the skeptics will have sufficient class to avoid saying "I told you so."
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 3, 2012 10:26PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 22:43, Judah Vee wrote:
Here's what I have to say. The Real Secrets team, whoever they are, have alleviated any minor concern I might have had. I am not going to say how, but they have given me all I need to believe this is going to go on for at least a year. No, I still don't know who they are so don't ask. No, I am not going to say what they have done so don't ask. Yes, I am a veritable nobody in the performing world so I don't expect anyone to take my word. But for those that do know me, I now have complete faith in this endeavor.

And that's all I have to say 'bout that.

-J-
[/quote]
Well...that was helpful. :lol:
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 3, 2012 10:35PM)
*mumble, mumble, mumble* (something about Judah being special and the majority being chopped liver)...
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 3, 2012 10:36PM)
Yes, I agree. What is your point?
James


[quote]
On 2012-03-03 21:12, Chessmann wrote:
James, your posts seem just as obsessive as anyone else's.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Judah Vee (Mar 3, 2012 10:40PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 23:35, Atom3339 wrote:
*mumble, mumble, mumble* (something about Judah being special and the majority being chopped liver)...
[/quote]

Well I hope they have done it for others here, Otherwise I am special. Though I have no idea why I would have been selected, as I am no one special..... ('cept to my mommy...)

-J-
Message: Posted by: toberman (Mar 3, 2012 10:49PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 13:47, GaryLee wrote:
It basiclly comes down to personal choice. But, if all those who oppose the marketing and secrecy behind realsecrets stop posting here, the thread would be rather boring. There might of been maybe 1 page of posts and that's it if it wasn't for the controversy. Realsecrets would not even be talked about as much as it is right now. Most of the reason why realsecrets is getting so much attention is because of those "naysayers" who keep the topic fresh and alive.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually the naysayers are not keeping anything fresh and alive, they are hoping to create controversy and are desperate for attention. I have to assume they are either immature or very lonely.

I happen to know someone involved in this project. It is 100% legitimate. There is no scam here. I've paid my money and am looking forward to the surprises to come. Those who are skeptical are welcome to sit on the sidelines and wait for reactions.

Terry
Message: Posted by: Jim Sparx (Mar 3, 2012 11:00PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 23:20, FrenchDrop wrote:

If the principals skip the country with the loot...
[/quote]

Too late, I have inside information the principles are operating out of an underground bunker in Antarctica, so they have no need to, "skip the country."
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 3, 2012 11:20PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 00:00, spartacus wrote:
Too late, I have inside information the principles are operating out of an underground bunker in Antarctica, so they have no need to, "skip the country."
[/quote]
Whoa! That's planning.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Mar 4, 2012 12:42AM)
I was enthused enough by the prospect of receiving a "trick" every month for a nominal fee of $12 per month that I sent off a payment for an annual subscription, per their advertisement of a "one-time fee." It seemed a simple matter to cancel the recurring payment with Paypal to begin in 2013 since that was the one aspect of the deal that I cannot accept. Their advertisements and web page said nothing to imply that this was not allowed. My action was quickly followed by a demand that I reinstate the recurring payment or be excluded from the "club."

I'm sorry guys, but I cannot do business with people who deceptively advertise their service. A one-time fee is a one-time fee and does not include a required future payment for extended service. I have no problem with anyone else who doesn't care about any of this. We have different expectations, and that is just fine with me.

I have since spent the money in my Paypal acount on Al Schneider's latest book, fifty feet of rope, a couple of PK rings, and still have money left over for something else. I guess we are all happy. At least for now.

I shall be on the outside looking in.
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Mar 4, 2012 04:20AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 23:49, toberman wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 13:47, GaryLee wrote:
It basiclly comes down to personal choice. But, if all those who oppose the marketing and secrecy behind realsecrets stop posting here, the thread would be rather boring. There might of been maybe 1 page of posts and that's it if it wasn't for the controversy. Realsecrets would not even be talked about as much as it is right now. Most of the reason why realsecrets is getting so much attention is because of those "naysayers" who keep the topic fresh and alive.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually the naysayers are not keeping anything fresh and alive, they are hoping to create controversy and are desperate for attention. I have to assume they are either immature or very lonely.


[/quote]

Actually that kind of comment is unnecessary. And its typical of the type of machismo that exists with some groups on here. Some folk like this idea and some folk don't-- let's ditch the name calling.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 4, 2012 06:24AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 22:43, Judah Vee wrote:
Here's what I have to say. The Real Secrets team, whoever they are, have alleviated any minor concern I might have had. I am not going to say how, but they have given me all I need to believe this is going to go on for at least a year. No, I still don't know who they are so don't ask. No, I am not going to say what they have done so don't ask. Yes, I am a veritable nobody in the performing world so I don't expect anyone to take my word. But for those that do know me, I now have complete faith in this endeavor.

And that's all I have to say 'bout that.

-J-
[/quote]

Awesome!! More SECRETS we don't know about from secret annonymous insiders and veritable nobodies with no info!! COOL!!! :yawn:
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 4, 2012 06:33AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 05:20, Ray Chelt wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 23:49, toberman wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 13:47, GaryLee wrote:
It basiclly comes down to personal choice. But, if all those who oppose the marketing and secrecy behind realsecrets stop posting here, the thread would be rather boring. There might of been maybe 1 page of posts and that's it if it wasn't for the controversy. Realsecrets would not even be talked about as much as it is right now. Most of the reason why realsecrets is getting so much attention is because of those "naysayers" who keep the topic fresh and alive.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually the naysayers are not keeping anything fresh and alive, they are hoping to create controversy and are desperate for attention. I have to assume they are either immature or very lonely.


[/quote]

Actually that kind of comment is unnecessary. And its typical of the type of machismo that exists with some groups on here. Some folk like this idea and some folk don't-- let's ditch the name calling.
[/quote]

Yeah that was pretty "immature" wasn't it? He must be pretty "lonely" to make a statement like that, and seems to be "desperate for attention" and acceptance of his Real Secret agents. But it is always funny when the pot calls the kettle black. Pack mentality and hypocrisy is what keeps the Café running 24 hours.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Mar 4, 2012 07:34AM)
I asked this in the PM Broadcast message, but then decided to ask it here as well.

Do you think in the future it is possible that the Real Secrets Team will introduce a feature that includes allowing a magician to present the routines in a public show with an additional performance fee payment?
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Mar 4, 2012 08:20AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 08:34, Howie Diddot wrote:
I asked this in the PM Broadcast message, but then decided to ask it here as well.

Do you think in the future it is possible that the Real Secrets Team will introduce a feature that includes allowing a magician to present the routines in a public show with an additional performance fee payment?
[/quote]

Slightly confused by this. You buy a trick to perform it so you shouldn't need any extra permission for a public performance?
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 4, 2012 08:47AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 19:50, Xiqual wrote:
I don't want to be saved! I like being thickheaded. My impulse buying or fantasy purchases are not your problem.

I just can't help reading your posts and hearing Dustin Hoffman's voice.
"What Real Secrets wants most to keep "secret" is that "$12 month" is actually $288 for 2 years." $288, $288, Real Secrets, 2 Years.

or this;
"Equally as tiring as the blind support for a blind product from the Real Secrets blind magicians bandwagon" blind support, blind product, blind magicians bandwagon blind blind blind blind magicians bandwagon.

Just try and not hear Dustin Hoffman as Rainman saying all that.
James
[quote]

I prefer to hear him say all that as Hook...
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 4, 2012 09:05AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 08:34, Howie Diddot wrote:
I asked this in the PM Broadcast message, but then decided to ask it here as well.

Do you think in the future it is possible that the Real Secrets Team will introduce a feature that includes allowing a magician to present the routines in a public show with an additional performance fee payment?
[/quote]

Why would you not be able to present them in public? Even though most who buy this want it to fool magicians, you can present the effects anywhere you want to. Otherwise what is the purpose of the effects? To just show magicians? You don't have to raise your fees to show the effects. :lol: Are you wanting to send Real Secrets "tip money" for them "allowing" you to show such secretive material, which is the entire purpose in the first place? You can see just what confusion and idiocy this product causes. It is prettty sad how magic thieves are releasing a lot of DVDS now and say that you do not have performace rights to the material, and you have to buy more stuff later.

But they conveniently leave this information off of the DVD until they get your money. See the Wizard Product Review for more examples. They want you to just watch the secret and then use the DVD as a coaster. This is a line crap and the most stupid thing I have ever heard of. If I buy a DVD to learn material nobody is going to stop me from performing. So yeah, "back up that truck" Sean Scott. :lol:
Message: Posted by: Brad Burt (Mar 4, 2012 09:13AM)
Performing the routines anywhere you wish, public or otherwise is not a problem. What they are asking is that we don't mass distribute it via something like YouTube, etc. You can perform the routines for your magic friends, but you know how that generally leads, or many times leads to then telling them the 'How' of the method? Don't do that. It's just old school "don't tell how you do it stuff".

Look at it from the Real Secrets folks point of view. Have YOU gone and seen what is EXPOSED on YouTube? Magicians **** and moan to this day about the "Masked Magician" and YouTube is on a whole new level of 'bad'. The why is obvious....the material is available on an ongoing and daily basis.

I admit I could have phrased much of their opening note above in much clearer language, but it's not that obtuse. DO the magic all you want. Just don't share the METHODS with non members. Don't go broadcasting the effects around. Why that one??? Sheesh, has no one heard the rule of magic that states you don't tell them what's going to happen before it does, because it's the same as repeating the same trick for the same folks during the same time period?

The simplest read between the lines: Yep, we know the methods to this stuff is going to get out, but we are going to attempt to have that happen as SLOWLY as possible.....for YOUR benefit not ours! Think about it. They'll have their money....in one basic sense what do that care if the methods get out? No one can get BACK ISSUES!!!! Once the release cycle of an item is past that's it. The ONLY folks it protects are their clients. Period.

Again, think about what they are saying: Let's say that you start your subscription in May? Unless they change what they mean by saying no Back Issues or change the policy for some reason....the new subscriber will NOT be able to get the April release. So in one very basic sense the publisher has nothing to protect. Cat's out of the bag for them. Go forth happy clients and perform the material for whoever you wish, where ever you wish. Just keep it Old School....don't tell folks how it's done.

Now a screed: I don't blame them. Magic has never seen such an influx of folks doing magic without the slightest hint,idea or the history of the craft. They have no idea of the ethics of the craft and seemingly could care less. They toss badly done presentations about willy nilly, they offer up some of the most sublime methods of magic ever conceived with no thought whatsoever to what they are doing. "Don't ask, don't tell" was a magic ethic for a long time before the military borrowed it from us! Now, younger magicians have no seeming internal prohibition to asking one how something is done as if you freaking owe it to them like it's some form of entitlement. That's WHY the Real Secrets folks have asked that at least at the most minimum level we don't just fritter away what they send us. Cool. Good for them.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 4, 2012 09:13AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-03 13:05, sirbrad wrote:
Whatever, I am done with this thread …. [/quote]

[img]http://www.bonsaichat.net/gallery/data/506/brickwall1.gif[/img] [img]http://www.bonsaichat.net/gallery/data/506/brickwall1.gif[/img] [img]http://www.bonsaichat.net/gallery/data/506/brickwall1.gif[/img] [img]http://www.bonsaichat.net/gallery/data/506/brickwall1.gif[/img]
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 4, 2012 10:15AM)
Careful gaffed you are going to get a headache. I am done whenever others are "done" with their veiled attacks which you conveniently ignore. Maybe you slammed your head too much or can't see that through those rose colored, biased glasses. Get over it.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 4, 2012 10:31AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 11:15, sirbrad wrote:
Careful gaffed you are going to get a headache. I am done whenever others are "done" with their veiled attacks which you conveniently ignore. Maybe you slammed your head too much or can't see that through those rose colored, biased glasses. Get over it.
[/quote]

Christ Almighty! We all get it already...[b][i]OK[/i][/b]? You don’t like the idea of “Real Secrets” and want nothing to do with it. You’ve made that quite clear in 57 posts! Obviously there is nothing wrong whatsoever in stating your opinion on a forum site, but now, for all practical purposes, it has become akin to nothing more than mere trolling.

How about taking a break, relax, count your hundred dollar bills, start reading all of those thousands of magic books you have and stop clogging up this thread with your [b]never[/b] ending mindless rants. We’ve all heard it already....[b]57 TIMES![/b]
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 4, 2012 11:03AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-19 00:35, Real Secrets Team wrote:
As a member, you must agree not to describe, share, or post videos of any of the effects or methods shared in the Real Secrets community. The goal is to protect these secrets for you and all of the other members. Certainly you can discuss whether you like or hate Real Secrets with others around you but you simply have to agree to the rules of the game to be and continue to be a member. If you don't feel comfortable committing to that Real Secrets is not for you. If you don't feel comfortable with secrets then Real Secrets is not for you.

[/quote]

This is exciting. Keeping the secrets among the select few. Like the 'magic underground' of years ago. You had to be part of the inner circle to be in the know.
Message: Posted by: EricDraven (Mar 4, 2012 12:08PM)
Years ago?
what do you mean?
:) :) ;)
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 4, 2012 12:14PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 13:08, EricDraven wrote:
Years ago?
what do you mean?
:) :) ;)
[/quote]

SHHHHHHHHHHHH. It's a thing of the past....doesn't exist anymore. This isn't the underground they're looking for....Nothing to see here...move along....
:firedevil:
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 4, 2012 12:20PM)
Think PEA: underground, need to be a member, their own publications...they are pretty successful and pretty secret at the same time.

With any luck at all...RS could attain to be the same.
Message: Posted by: DanHarlan (Mar 4, 2012 12:32PM)
Okay, okay, I confess... I AM REAL SECRETS.

Does that inspire you with confidence?






Totally kidding, of course. I couldn't resist.
--Dan Harlan
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 4, 2012 12:46PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 13:32, DanHarlan wrote:
Okay, okay, I confess... I AM REAL SECRETS.

Does that inspire you with confidence?



Totally kidding, of course. I couldn't resist.
--Dan Harlan
[/quote]

Nice try Dan. but we only know you as THE REAL DEAL!

We need MORE HARLAN's!

Clarke
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 4, 2012 01:34PM)
Gaff, don't feed him.

Harla, ya got me. I was ELATED! For two seconds. Dog gone...
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 4, 2012 01:51PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 14:34, Atom3339 wrote:
Gaff, don't feed him.

[/quote]

Yeah, your right of course. If anyone should know better it should be me as I own and run a forum site! Sorry people. ;)
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 4, 2012 02:18PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 11:15, sirbrad wrote:
Careful gaffed you are going to get a headache. I am done whenever others are "done" with their veiled attacks which you conveniently ignore. Maybe you slammed your head too much or can't see that through those rose colored, biased glasses. Get over it.
[/quote]
How's the view from "the high road," Brad?
Message: Posted by: shaunproof (Mar 4, 2012 04:37PM)
The other real secret is that this will be a good platform to sell even more real secrets to a captive audience.

But it's an "elite" community -- so don't worry about this stuff getting into the hands of the non-elite.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 4, 2012 05:01PM)
Sean Scott did the right thing and included all the extras for free after a few people complained about his DVD. He even re-recorded some tips on how to achieve some of the harder effects on the DVD. His customer service is great.
James


[quote]
It is prettty sad how magic thieves are releasing a lot of DVDS now and say that you do not have performace rights to the material, and you have to buy more stuff later.

But they conveniently leave this information off of the DVD until they get your money. See the Wizard Product Review for more examples. They want you to just watch the secret and then use the DVD as a coaster. This is a line crap and the most stupid thing I have ever heard of. If I buy a DVD to learn material nobody is going to stop me from performing. So yeah, "back up that truck" Sean Scott. :lol:
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: writeall (Mar 4, 2012 05:47PM)
The psychology is fascinating. Something is inherently more valuable in our community because it is secret and exclusive.

What a neat commentary that is on our artform. Compare it to music, where any mook can buy the sheet music or transcribe a melody by ear. In that realm, it's the performance and the performer that makes the critical difference. For us, hidden knowledge has much more sway. Arguably, it's why I first got into magic -- I wanted to be part of the club, part of the priesthood, part of the clique who "knew".

Expect this type of marketing to catch on.
Step one: Top secret issue, full on exclusivity.
Step two: Slightly less exclusive, released during lectures.
Step three: Finally released in a compilation, "[Insert famous magician]performs the best of Real Secrets."

"Hi, my name's Bill and I'm addicted to secrets."
"Somebody lend me $144."
Message: Posted by: Jim Sparx (Mar 4, 2012 06:01PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 18:47, writeall wrote:

"Hi, my name's Bill and I'm addicted to secrets."
"Somebody lend me $144."
[/quote]

There is a 12 step program for that. Unfortunately, you end up a drunk.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Mar 4, 2012 06:45PM)
What's the fuss about some tricks for twelve dollars each, and some relative exclusivity on the material? Not as pricy as tenyo items and not sold to laymen in toystors. Where's the beef?
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 4, 2012 08:21PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 14:51, gaffed wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 14:34, Atom3339 wrote:
Gaff, don't feed him.

[/quote]

Yeah, your right of course. If anyone should know better it should be me as I own and run a forum site! Sorry people. ;)
[/quote]

Ah, so online forums are pretty much your entire life so you don't actually perform magic. That explains it all. I bet you count people's posts all day there also. 58.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 4, 2012 08:22PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 15:18, FrenchDrop wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 11:15, sirbrad wrote:
Careful gaffed you are going to get a headache. I am done whenever others are "done" with their veiled attacks which you conveniently ignore. Maybe you slammed your head too much or can't see that through those rose colored, biased glasses. Get over it.
[/quote]
How's the view from "the high road," Brad?
[/quote]

Pretty good, can see all the veiled attacks nicely. You should come up here and check out the view sometime. Although it is pretty ugly down there.
Message: Posted by: edh (Mar 4, 2012 09:00PM)
Limited releases(once it's gone it's gone) have not been so limited in the past. :)

I'll wait for the limited releases to be released. :)
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 4, 2012 09:05PM)
Yeah exactly. They just say it is limited now so that all the suckers spend their cash, then later on they screw them over and change the rules to make more money. Many here have a lot of learning to do, and the thick-headed ones have to learn the hard way.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 4, 2012 10:33PM)
Sorry you are so cynical. I have a positive attitude that this will be fun. Exclusivity, or supreme value are not that big of a deal. I like surprises, don't mind not knowing who is behind the curtain and I think this will be great.

20 years ago I visited Taiwan, met my wife, returned to the States to sell all my stuff and moved here. I took a huge risk. Best decision I have ever made. Without risk, there is no gain.

I understand you don't like this deal, but why are you so adversarial about it? I like it, great, you don't like it, great.
You seem so angry that some people here want to buy in.
May I ask why?
James

[quote]
On 2012-03-04 22:05, sirbrad wrote:
Yeah exactly. They just say it is limited now so that all the suckers spend their cash, then later on they screw them over and change the rules to make more money. Many here have a lot of learning to do, and the thick-headed ones have to learn the hard way.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 4, 2012 11:13PM)
I am not cynical I am skeptical due to the lack of information and how the website is set up. I also stated that I don't doubt that the material will probably be great, but I don't like how they are operating their business and trying to mislead people. I am only cynical to those who continue to quote and attack my viewpoint, and just want to hear nothing but praise for a unknown product. I like the idea of getting a surprise in the mail once a month, but I don't like how they try and sneak in a recurring bill, and how they are disrespecting customers by expecting them to play by all of their rules or else. This whole concept also disrespects all the other great material out there and attempts to make it all seem inferior somehow, just because we know what it is. Which is nothing more than BS and a marketing ploy, and apparently one that works on most magicians who always crave more "secrets".

In my real life I am very positive and I take risks all the time. But not without researching as much as possible first, and reviewing all of my options carefully. But with this product there is nothing you can review. It equates to bascially playing the magic lottery and hoping that you win. Which rarely happens.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 4, 2012 11:48PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 23:33, Xiqual wrote:

20 years ago I visited Taiwan, met my wife, returned to the States to sell all my stuff and moved here. I took a huge risk. Best decision I have ever made. Without risk, there is no gain.

[/quote]

James, that's a beautiful story and an example of REAL magic in life. Thanks for sharing it!

Clarke
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Mar 4, 2012 11:59PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 10:05, sirbrad wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 08:34, Howie Diddot wrote:
I asked this in the PM Broadcast message, but then decided to ask it here as well.

Do you think in the future it is possible that the Real Secrets Team will introduce a feature that includes allowing a magician to present the routines in a public show with an additional performance fee payment?
[/quote]

Why would you not be able to present them in public? Even though most who buy this want it to fool magicians, you can present the effects anywhere you want to. Otherwise what is the purpose of the effects? To just show magicians? You don't have to raise your fees to show the effects. :lol: Are you wanting to send Real Secrets "tip money" for them "allowing" you to show such secretive material, which is the entire purpose in the first place? You can see just what confusion and idiocy this product causes. It is prettty sad how magic thieves are releasing a lot of DVDS now and say that you do not have performace rights to the material, and you have to buy more stuff later.

But they conveniently leave this information off of the DVD until they get your money. See the Wizard Product Review for more examples. They want you to just watch the secret and then use the DVD as a coaster. This is a line crap and the most stupid thing I have ever heard of. If I buy a DVD to learn material nobody is going to stop me from performing. So yeah, "back up that truck" Sean Scott. :lol:
[/quote]


I should have been clearer on my point in my original post.

The best way I can explain it is to have you click on this link and read the “legal notice” of the purchase of the routine, it states that the routine can only be performed live and not on television or on video without written permission. or in a case of additional fees having to be paid.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 5, 2012 12:03AM)
I would first like to say that I am sorry for making jokes at your expense. I hope you will accept my apology. For myself, I cannot praise the product because,lol, I have no idea what it is.

I am a pro magician, I am also a teacher. My stage show is pretty much set, adding new things is usually just a line or gag here or there or some new timing with the jokes according to the delivery and setup. I do use a lot of closeup for my students and I do love to get new magic and play with it. I am lucky because I am a pro AND a hobbyist.

I don't really care about the supposedly exclusive nature or the big secret part. It can't be elitist because anybody with $40 can join.

This is of course how I feel. You have stated your feelings and I certainly see your point and I respect that.

Like I said, I don't mind the recurring payment, if it's good, I'll stay if not I'll cancel.
Thank you for your civil reply, I hope we can remain in conversation mode.
James
ps
Your ending point is very true. Actually taking risks without knowledge is being a degenerate gambler,lol In this case, I just want to play. If you are right, I will be the first to say you were, I promise.



[quote]
On 2012-03-05 00:13, sirbrad wrote:
I am not cynical I am skeptical due to the lack of information and how the website is set up. I also stated that I don't doubt that the material will probably be great, but I don't like how they are operating their business and trying to mislead people. I am only cynical to those who continue to quote and attack my viewpoint, and just want to hear nothing but praise for a unknown product. I like the idea of getting a surprise in the mail once a month, but I don't like how they try and sneak in a recurring bill, and how they are disrespecting customers by expecting them to play by all of their rules or else. This whole concept also disrespects all the other great material out there and attempts to make it all seem inferior somehow, just because we know what it is. Which is nothing more than BS and a marketing ploy, and apparently one that works on most magicians who always crave more "secrets".

In my real life I am very positive and I take risks all the time. But not without researching as much as possible first, and reviewing all of my options carefully. But with this product there is nothing you can review. It equates to bascially playing the magic lottery and hoping that you win. Which rarely happens.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 5, 2012 01:04AM)
No problem, I don't hold grudges. I have been posting on magic forums for 10 years now nothing really offends me, and I expect disagreements. But if someone attacks my opinion I will defend it. But with forums it is not always easy to judge tone through text, so there is a lot of misinterpretations and assumptions. Some just like to start fights and bicker but I actually like to avoid it if possible. Seems to be the nature of forums though. If you go against what is popular you get ganged up on by all the supporters. But it is nothing to me as I like to take the road less traveled. I am still not entirely against ordering this if they cleaned up the website and did not force a recurring payment. There really is no point in having auto-billing, if the product is good that will take care of itself. I am not against the idea or the potential of the material. A wise man changes his mind, a fool never will. So I am still on the fence.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 5, 2012 02:36AM)
So true about misinterpretations! Also, sarcasm is almost impossible to do well in text.
Anyway, I understand where you are coming from. I also dislike being forced to buy because of limited supply and other nonsense.

To me, as I have said before, this seems like a fun diversion.
Nice to be discussing it with you,
James


[quote]
On 2012-03-05 02:04, sirbrad wrote:
No problem, I don't hold grudges. I have been posting on magic forums for 10 years now nothing really offends me, and I expect disagreements. But if someone attacks my opinion I will defend it. But with forums it is not always easy to judge tone through text, so there is a lot of misinterpretations and assumptions. Some just like to start fights and bicker but I actually like to avoid it if possible. Seems to be the nature of forums though. If you go against what is popular you get ganged up on by all the supporters. But it is nothing to me as I like to take the road less traveled. I am still not entirely against ordering this if they cleaned up the website and did not force a recurring payment. There really is no point in having auto-billing, if the product is good that will take care of itself. I am not against the idea or the potential of the material. A wise man changes his mind, a fool never will. So I am still on the fence.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 5, 2012 03:40AM)
One thing that makes it more exciting is that it is different, and leaves a lot to be discovered. All the effects may even be linked together somehow like a puzzle, who knows? If anything it is something new and different from all the other standard marketing out there. But I already bought a load of stuff recently that I wanted for a long time and need to go through so much material still. If there were more time and back issues I might try this, but the way they force it down your throat with the "now or never" pitch is also a turn off. Makes me not want to buy it even more. So there are a lot of factors involved. But I guess if you have disposeable money and don't care how it turns out it would be worth trying. I can afford it easily but I am just more picky about what I buy, and prefer to know what I am getting. But I may change my mind on this before April you never know.
Message: Posted by: Judah Vee (Mar 5, 2012 06:20AM)
I guess that's why I bought into the project... I do have the disposable income and don't care how it turns out. However, if sirbrad and the others are right and it turns out badly, I'll eat crow. I'll will bow down and take my caning. But it won't stop me from making another purchase, bad or good. I have read all the posts and all the veiled attacks on some here are annoying at best. I have tried to remain positive and not attack anyone. I just have faith in the project. I will remain positive until I have no reason to....

-J-
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 5, 2012 07:39AM)
If it "turns our badly", Judah, I don't think you need to consider eating crow. Life is full of choices, and few of us are prescient. I don't let myself feel superior when I win at the casino, and I don't let myself feel foolish when I lose. I know the odds, and it's fun to play. I hope those of you who are "all in" have called it right, magic could use something good and exciting...
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 5, 2012 08:12AM)
Well said Sir!
James

[quote]
On 2012-03-05 08:39, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote:
If it "turns our badly", Judah, I don't think you need to consider eating crow. Life is full of choices, and few of us are prescient. I don't let myself feel superior when I win at the casino, and I don't let myself feel foolish when I lose. I know the odds, and it's fun to play. I hope those of you who are "all in" have called it right, magic could use something good and exciting...
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: writeall (Mar 5, 2012 10:30AM)
Any idea on how secret the secrets will be? Someone was tracking membership numbers with an eye toward how many had signed up.

Is it less secret if 1000 are subscribed than if there are 200?
I'm thinking Counterfeit Hollingworth (which is a great trick) and the evolution from "really secret, extremely limited" to "not so secret, not as limited" to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wIkAOBoSOs (which isn't meant to be an expose).

It's great marketing already, but might be enhanced by limiting sign-ups.
Message: Posted by: Jim Sparx (Mar 5, 2012 12:05PM)
Someone posted, Kaufman I think, that they have already manufactured a years worth of apparatus and gimmicks. How would they know how much to manufacture if they are just now taking memberships and people are still signing on? Are they only taking a hundred people? Or what if they set their goal at 250 and only 100 signed up? That does not make good business sense that they have already made more than what they are going to distribute. Oh well, April is only a month away and I'll be watching my mailbox.
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 5, 2012 12:41PM)
Judah, Crow AND caning? I'll share the popcorn!

(Yeah, you guessed it: Pop "Secret").
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Mar 5, 2012 01:20PM)
I've just spoken to someone directly involved in the project and if what they said is true (and I have no reason to doubt them) this 'punt' will turn out to be worth far more then the risk involved in subscribing blindly.

Those who refuse to sign up on principle will be kicking themselves.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 5, 2012 01:22PM)
But I see your Real Secrets
Shining through
I see your Real Secrets
And that's why I love you
So don't be afraid to let them show
Your Real Secrets
Real Secrets are beautiful,
Like a rainbow......
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Mar 5, 2012 02:29PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-05 14:20, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
I've just spoken to someone directly involved in the project and if what they said is true (and I have no reason to doubt them) this 'punt' will turn out to be worth far more then the risk involved in subscribing blindly.

Those who refuse to sign up on principle will be kicking themselves.
[/quote]

One of the most hysterical things about this now is the sheer number of people who have spoken to somebody at Real Secrets and have the inside info.

What was the old adage..tell one person and it isn't a secret anymore?

Methinks the Real Secrets team might as well divulge all -- it can only increase sales.

And enough with the "you'll be kicking yourselves" schtick.

Whilst I hope that everybody who likes a bit of fun and mystery gets a real kick out of this lets not forget that you are paying $12 a trick...I don't think me having 24 $12 tricks is going to change my life. I also am struggling to think of anybody who has released 24 brand new, never before seen tricks, which are all eminently worth having.

So by all means have a great time with this but don't worry about we folk who miss out, somehow I am sure we will survive.
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 5, 2012 02:56PM)
From another aspect:

How many of the very greatest effects that you know or use could be taught in 2 sheets of paper or less?

In examples of these, who's involved makes a great deal of difference.

Times 12.
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 5, 2012 04:21PM)
Tom,

You mean tricks like Out of This World or Card Warp?
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 5, 2012 04:35PM)
Yea, the game-changing stuff. Could be! You never know.

I'll roll the danm dice.
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Mar 5, 2012 04:42PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-19 06:24, Roslyn wrote:
So, beginning of April is the first issue. When is the last date you can subscribe to get issue 1?
[/quote]

Was this question ever answered?
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 5, 2012 05:14PM)
I think Ben Franklin said "Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead."

I'm not sure anyone needs to worry about life changing or missing out. This is just for fun. One thing I like is there is no "specific" hype.
I always watch a demo, get excited, then my imagination goes crazy and I am almost always let down. My fault because I imagine a better trick than the one I buy. I am sure we all know the feeling "Aww man, ripped off AGAIN!"

Real Secrets will be a surprise. I have no idea what to expect.
WOO HOO!!
James
ps
I am not trying to hype anything or say I know what is up. I don't. I am also not thumbing my nose at people that don't want to join.


[quote]
On 2012-03-05 15:29, Ray Chelt wrote:


What was the old adage..tell one person and it isn't a secret anymore?


Whilst I hope that everybody who likes a bit of fun and mystery gets a real kick out of this lets not forget that you are paying $12 a trick...I don't think me having 24 $12 tricks is going to change my life. I also am struggling to think of anybody who has released 24 brand new, never before seen tricks, which are all eminently worth having.

So by all means have a great time with this but don't worry about we folk who miss out, somehow I am sure we will survive.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: todsky (Mar 5, 2012 08:11PM)
Aside from the one gimmick from Michael Weber, it seems to me that each monthly trick will be a set of instructions for one trick. So 12 trick instructions per year is $144, but a typical book of tricks which contains about 40 effects can be had for around $40. So this 12-trick Real Secrets 'book' in installments would need to be absolutely cutting-edge incredible to justify itself. But then again, one-trick DVD's are around $25, so I guess it's all relative.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 5, 2012 10:05PM)
First page of this thread;
"Physical props and instructions sent by First Class US Mail every month"
James
Message: Posted by: duanebarry (Mar 5, 2012 11:09PM)
Those are notably not singular. Which does not mean that they WILL be plural, but the writer could easily have written the definitively singular "a prop" there -- and did not.

Also: "...you will get the feature and also items you may not understand but will find the secret to as time passes."

So there's apparently a Feature item, which implies one or more other lesser items (props and/or routines -- it's ambiguous) each month as well.

Although it was labeled as such in the big thread over at Genii, I'd be surprised if it's merely a single Trick Of The Month offering.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 6, 2012 12:36AM)
That's what I was thinking Duane. I agree with Todsky too that it is not some bargain. As opposed to a book or even a DVD it is a bit higher priced.
James


[quote]
On 2012-03-06 00:09, duanebarry wrote:
Those are notably not singular. Which does not mean that they WILL be plural, but the writer could easily have written the definitively singular "a prop" there -- and did not.

Also: "...you will get the feature and also items you may not understand but will find the secret to as time passes."

So there's apparently a Feature item, which implies one or more other lesser items (props and/or routines -- it's ambiguous) each month as well.

Although it was labeled as such in the big thread over at Genii, I'd be surprised if it's merely a single Trick Of The Month offering.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 6, 2012 05:24AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-05 00:59, Howie Diddot wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 10:05, sirbrad wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-04 08:34, Howie Diddot wrote:
I asked this in the PM Broadcast message, but then decided to ask it here as well.

Do you think in the future it is possible that the Real Secrets Team will introduce a feature that includes allowing a magician to present the routines in a public show with an additional performance fee payment?
[/quote]

Why would you not be able to present them in public? Even though most who buy this want it to fool magicians, you can present the effects anywhere you want to. Otherwise what is the purpose of the effects? To just show magicians? You don't have to raise your fees to show the effects. :lol: Are you wanting to send Real Secrets "tip money" for them "allowing" you to show such secretive material, which is the entire purpose in the first place? You can see just what confusion and idiocy this product causes. It is prettty sad how magic thieves are releasing a lot of DVDS now and say that you do not have performace rights to the material, and you have to buy more stuff later.

But they conveniently leave this information off of the DVD until they get your money. See the Wizard Product Review for more examples. They want you to just watch the secret and then use the DVD as a coaster. This is a line crap and the most stupid thing I have ever heard of. If I buy a DVD to learn material nobody is going to stop me from performing. So yeah, "back up that truck" Sean Scott. :lol:
[/quote]


I should have been clearer on my point in my original post.

The best way I can explain it is to have you click on this link and read the “legal notice” of the purchase of the routine, it states that the routine can only be performed live and not on television or on video without written permission. or in a case of additional fees having to be paid.
[/quote]

They want MORE money for free National TV advertising? LOL!! Well not exactly since you are not allowed to say what the effect is, or where you got it from. So what is the problem? Yhey are shooting themselves in the foot with their own rules now. If I buy an effect or material I am going to use it anywhere I *** please, otherwise they can keep it.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 6, 2012 05:25AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-05 13:05, spartacus wrote:
Someone posted, Kaufman I think, that they have already manufactured a years worth of apparatus and gimmicks. How would they know how much to manufacture if they are just now taking memberships and people are still signing on? Are they only taking a hundred people? Or what if they set their goal at 250 and only 100 signed up? That does not make good business sense that they have already made more than what they are going to distribute. Oh well, April is only a month away and I'll be watching my mailbox.
[/quote]

I don't think they have as many as they claim. I am betting they are making them as they are ordered. Nothing they are doing is good "business sense." That is the problem.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 6, 2012 05:28AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-05 15:29, Ray Chelt wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-05 14:20, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
I've just spoken to someone directly involved in the project and if what they said is true (and I have no reason to doubt them) this 'punt' will turn out to be worth far more then the risk involved in subscribing blindly.

Those who refuse to sign up on principle will be kicking themselves.
[/quote]

One of the most hysterical things about this now is the sheer number of people who have spoken to somebody at Real Secrets and have the inside info.

[/quote]

I spoke with God last night and he told me not to order. You will have to take my word for it, don't order or you will kick yourself later. I wonder what one has to do in order to be so lucky to have spoken with Real Secrets?
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 6, 2012 05:55AM)
He that would keep a secret must keep it secret that he hath a secret to keep.
Message: Posted by: shaunproof (Mar 6, 2012 06:35AM)
I spoke with someone directly involved with the project too. I bought him a hamburger -- he's going to pay me back on Tuesday.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 6, 2012 06:58AM)
Seems like by contacting "select people" that Real Secrets are breaking their own rules. I probably have millions of effects contained inside of all of my books, VHS's and DVDS collected over 32 years. So I am going to be kicking myself if I don't add 24 more? :lol: I would think the opposite. Any of that material, esecially the best of it could have been used to package up some Real Secrets if I got the permission of the creators. Or you could just steal them like some do and add some "twists" to them and hope no one notices.

Also if the price is only "$12.00" a month then let me pay via paypal each month with the option to cancel or not buy the next one anytime that I want, instead of charging for a full year with a recurring payment. They won't do that because they want all the money up front, and they are making them as they get orders in. But they want to keep that a "secret."
Message: Posted by: slyhand (Mar 6, 2012 07:29AM)
I wonder what is better...

To have a boat load of books with millions of tricks that one has not yet read or getting one trick a month that one will most definitely anticipate and read.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

To each his own.
Message: Posted by: todsky (Mar 6, 2012 08:37AM)
I stand corrected; if there is indeed a physical prop each month (and not just a double-faced card!), then it sounds like a worthwhile venture for me. And I enjoy surprises (especially the good kind).
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Mar 6, 2012 09:37AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 06:28, sirbrad wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-05 15:29, Ray Chelt wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-05 14:20, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
I've just spoken to someone directly involved in the project and if what they said is true (and I have no reason to doubt them) this 'punt' will turn out to be worth far more then the risk involved in subscribing blindly.

Those who refuse to sign up on principle will be kicking themselves.
[/quote]

One of the most hysterical things about this now is the sheer number of people who have spoken to somebody at Real Secrets and have the inside info.

[/quote]

I spoke with God last night and he told me not to order. You will have to take my word for it, don't order or you will kick yourself later. I wonder what one has to do in order to be so lucky to have spoken with Real Secrets?
[/quote]
If that is God's will then I will comply. I have just cancelled my subscription via PayPal.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Mar 6, 2012 11:01AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 06:28, sirbrad wrote:
I spoke with God last night and he told me not to order.
[/quote]

Funniest post in the topic :)
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 6, 2012 11:25AM)
See? God answers all our prayers.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Mar 6, 2012 12:46PM)
In a situation like this, I ask myself, "What would Houdini do?"
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 6, 2012 12:50PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 08:29, slyhand wrote:
I wonder what is better...

To have a boat load of books with millions of tricks that one has not yet read or getting one trick a month that one will most definitely anticipate and read.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

To each his own.
[/quote]

Easy the books and DVDs. Way more value for the money. I have not gotten to them because I have already gone through 1/4 so far, and I have been using the same material for a long time. An amateur/hobbyist learns a lot of effects to perform for the same people, a professional performs the same effects for different people, and a lot smoother. My current repertoire is so strong that I don't need to learn a "trick a month." So yeah it is all about persepective.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 6, 2012 12:51PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 10:37, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 06:28, sirbrad wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-05 15:29, Ray Chelt wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-05 14:20, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
I've just spoken to someone directly involved in the project and if what they said is true (and I have no reason to doubt them) this 'punt' will turn out to be worth far more then the risk involved in subscribing blindly.

Those who refuse to sign up on principle will be kicking themselves.
[/quote]

One of the most hysterical things about this now is the sheer number of people who have spoken to somebody at Real Secrets and have the inside info.

[/quote]

I spoke with God last night and he told me not to order. You will have to take my word for it, don't order or you will kick yourself later. I wonder what one has to do in order to be so lucky to have spoken with Real Secrets?
[/quote]
If that is God's will then I will comply. I have just cancelled my subscription via PayPal.
[/quote]

Nice, it was suposed ot be a secret though but oh well.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 6, 2012 12:52PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 13:46, billmarq wrote:
In a situation like this, I ask myself, "What would Houdini do?"
[/quote]

He would escape quickly to avoid the recurring payment.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 6, 2012 01:00PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 13:46, billmarq wrote:
In a situation like this, I ask myself, "What would Houdini do?"
[/quote]

Probably a mediocre bit of conjuring...

*ducks for cover*
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 6, 2012 01:10PM)
Mediocre or not, he proved that great 'presentation and showmanship' will make you the most famous magician/escape artist who ever lived, and one that everyone still talks about. So I think he accomplished his goal and then some. A lot of "magicians" said he was mediocre because they were jealous of his rising fame, and that was about all they could attack since he went to dooing mostly escapes.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 6, 2012 01:17PM)
I'm particularly fond of his debunking of spiritualists. And yes, a wonderful performer without any doubt.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 6, 2012 01:21PM)
Yeah he set the trend for debunking, and made that popular as well.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 6, 2012 01:25PM)
I think debunkers predated Houdini by several millennia. Plato was fairly popular, and is still talked about today.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 6, 2012 01:28PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 14:25, tomsk192 wrote:
I think debunkers predated Houdini by several millennia. Plato was fairly popular, and is still talked about today.
[/quote]
But could he vanish an elephant?
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 6, 2012 01:32PM)
:D

He could have argued it out of existence.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 6, 2012 01:35PM)
Yeah most today give Houdini credit for their interest in it, which is why I said he set the trend and made it more popular. He was a lot more famous than any other that predated him.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 6, 2012 01:43PM)
We'll have to agree to differ; debunking does not begin and end with the Spiritualist movement. It is about exposing charlatans, and there have been many great men throughout history doing just that.

Anyway, Houdini wouldn't have vanished that elephant without Charles Morritt, a true Yorkshireman.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 6, 2012 01:57PM)
But to the general public Houdini was still the most known for magic, escapes, and debunking. Ask any ordinary person and I bet most never even heard of the others. But in my 32 years of performing magic I have never met anyone who did not know who Houdini was. That is quite an accomplishment. He influences A LOT of people to study all of those. Even myself at a very early age. I did not say it started and ended with him or what he did.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 6, 2012 02:02PM)
Good ol' Brad. You'll argue about anything. :lol:
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 6, 2012 02:15PM)
Is this the right room for an argument?
Message: Posted by: Ray Tupper. (Mar 6, 2012 03:43PM)
Cetainly sir.Have you been here before?
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Mar 6, 2012 04:04PM)
It is not.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 6, 2012 04:32PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 16:43, Ray Tupper. wrote:
Cetainly sir.Have you been here before?
[/quote]

No, it's my first time.
Message: Posted by: Ray Tupper. (Mar 6, 2012 05:13PM)
I see. Well, do you want to have just one argument, or were you thinking of taking a course?
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 6, 2012 05:23PM)
Right! This thread has become too silly.

http://images.soulpancake.s3.amazonaws.com/graham_chapman_colonel_thumb.jpg
Message: Posted by: writeall (Mar 6, 2012 05:32PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 10:37, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 06:28, sirbrad wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-05 15:29, Ray Chelt wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-05 14:20, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
I've just spoken to someone directly involved in the project and if what they said is true (and I have no reason to doubt them) this 'punt' will turn out to be worth far more then the risk involved in subscribing blindly.

Those who refuse to sign up on principle will be kicking themselves.
[/quote]

One of the most hysterical things about this now is the sheer number of people who have spoken to somebody at Real Secrets and have the inside info.

[/quote]

I spoke with God last night and he told me not to order. You will have to take my word for it, don't order or you will kick yourself later. I wonder what one has to do in order to be so lucky to have spoken with Real Secrets?
[/quote]
If that is God's will then I will comply. I have just cancelled my subscription via PayPal.
[/quote]

Could you clarify which God you guys are talking to?
I need to know if it's the one I should listen to or some off-brand God I can ignore.
Message: Posted by: insight (Mar 6, 2012 06:48PM)
Should this thread be locked? Very few people seem positively excited about Real Secrets, the original intention of the thread. The negative excitement is another story.

Regards,
Mike
Message: Posted by: Jim Sparx (Mar 6, 2012 07:29PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 19:48, insight wrote:
Should this thread be locked? Very few people seem positively excited about Real Secrets, the original intention of the thread. The negative excitement is another story.

Regards,
Mike
[/quote]

I'm excited, for those that are not:
No soup for you!!
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 6, 2012 08:11PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 18:13, Ray Tupper. wrote:
I see. Well, do you want to have just one argument, or were you thinking of taking a course?
[/quote]

Well, what is the cost?
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 6, 2012 08:13PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 18:23, FrenchDrop wrote:
Right! This thread has become too silly.

http://images.soulpancake.s3.amazonaws.com/graham_chapman_colonel_thumb.jpg
[/quote]

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln6y2qDjqc1qg1veto1_500.gif
Message: Posted by: Jim Sparx (Mar 6, 2012 08:25PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 21:11, tomsk192 wrote:

Well, what is the cost?
[/quote]

This little venture is not costing me anything, I've been skimming Father Photius' collection plate every Sunday for months. Hope he is not reading this forum.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 6, 2012 09:04PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 19:48, insight wrote:
Should this thread be locked? Very few people seem positively excited about Real Secrets, the original intention of the thread. The negative excitement is another story.

Regards,
Mike
[/quote]

Why on earth should it be locked? The "Latest and Greatest?" forum (take note of the "[b]?[/b]" mark in the title), or for that matter, any forum on the Café is for discussion whether the input is negative or positive. Are you suggesting that if something is up for discussion, which is what a forums site is all about, that if there is negative input on any given thread that it should be locked? Take away the discussion, and you no longer have a forum! ;)
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 7, 2012 02:54AM)
I'm excited!! YIIIPPPPEEEEEE!!!!!
James
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 7, 2012 04:48AM)
I am excited to be saving $288, and not having to save 24 shipping boxes to closely examine later. I can't wait to hear what those who ordered say when they found out that the wife or another family member threw them out. Better get your caution tape ready and make a spot to encose them all. :lol:
Message: Posted by: slyhand (Mar 7, 2012 05:56AM)
Just curious sirbrad, your zeal for stating the same negative opinion ad nauseam on this subject is for which of the following reasons...

1. Your overwhelming concern for your fellow magi.

2. You want to make sure Real Secrets gets no subscribers.

3. Other (please state what that reason is)

Thank you.
Message: Posted by: toberman (Mar 7, 2012 08:43AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-07 06:56, slyhand wrote:
Just curious sirbrad, your zeal for stating the same negative opinion ad nauseam on this subject is for which of the following reasons...

1. Your overwhelming concern for your fellow magi.

2. You want to make sure Real Secrets gets no subscribers.

3. Other (please state what that reason is)

Thank you.
[/quote]

I'm assuming he is in desperate need of attention. If we all ignore his posts maybe he'll go away?
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 7, 2012 08:51AM)
If you all ignore his posts? The only reason why he keeps posting is because some of you have nothing to do than either count his posts or interrogate him for posting so many times. If it wasn't for his posts, the interrest in this thread would of died 15 pages ago.

Some of you seem a little obsessed with Sirbrad's posts. Who cares how many times he posts, what's it to anyone else anyways? Why does it concern you so much on how many times someone posts, even if all they are doing is repeating themselves. Sounds like he's not the only one repeating themselves around here.

Are you worried he may influence others from not subscribing? What's the real beef for singling out Sirbrad. Maybe it's because your sick and tired of reading his posts? May I suggest a very simple solution? Stop reading his posts, stop coming to this thread. It's not like you have anything else to contribute to the thread. Gee wilacures men, grow up! ha, ha
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 7, 2012 09:11AM)
No, I think it's more the annoyance at the unceasing passive/aggressive rudeness and the juvenile sangfroid that disallows any real conversation. Could be that the emotional level of the responses are at about the level of a 12 year old, too. It's probably both.
Message: Posted by: Matthew Wright (Mar 7, 2012 10:04AM)
I personally have two problems with this Real Secrets?

1) There is an old saying in magic, "the only way to keep it secret is to publish it". I think that by trying to make it such a secret thing there will be more pirate copies flying around than ever.

2) What are you going to get? 99.999% of marketed magic I will never buy because it just isn't for me. What makes this so amazing that it is going to hit twelve times? Or even once out of twelve times?

Yeah there are some good names associated with it but so what. I have books FULL of Max Maven material that I am never gonna do. I can't believe that Max has been saving his very best stuff just for this project. Same goes for every other contributor. I've seen the Michael Weber mind-reading manuscript that was bought for £60 and thought it was pretty poor for the price. I can't imagine what he will be putting out for $12?
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 7, 2012 10:29AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 22:04, gaffed wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 19:48, insight wrote:
Should this thread be locked? Very few people seem positively excited about Real Secrets, the original intention of the thread. The negative excitement is another story.

Regards,
Mike
[/quote]

Why on earth should it be locked? The "Latest and Greatest?" forum (take note of the "[b]?[/b]" mark in the title), or for that matter, any forum on the Café is for discussion whether the input is negative or positive. Are you suggesting that if something is up for discussion, which is what a forums site is all about, that if there is negative input on any given thread that it should be locked? Take away the discussion, and you no longer have a forum! ;)
[/quote]

You sound pretty hypocritcal considering that you requested that the HP thread (which magically disappeared) be locked.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 7, 2012 10:32AM)
It'll all come down to a matter of opinion and personal taste. What might be a terrible effect to one person may turn out to be the staple for someone else. I know sometimes I hate a trick that someone else loves. It's not because I'm right and they're wrong, it's a matter of taste and opinion. Some people can see the use of things that others discard as being useless and uneffective.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 7, 2012 10:35AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-07 06:56, slyhand wrote:
Just curious sirbrad, your zeal for stating the same negative opinion ad nauseam on this subject is for which of the following reasons...

1. Your overwhelming concern for your fellow magi.

2. You want to make sure Real Secrets gets no subscribers.

3. Other (please state what that reason is)

Thank you.
[/quote]

I am trying to save the magic world. I am merely stating my opinion and as stated it keeps the thread going and not so boring. A lot of people are thick-headed and hate opposing opinions, and want to "ignore" what can possibly happen. I can state my opinions just as much as anyone else, positive or negative. I don't see any rules about only being able to post a certain amount of times regarding a subject. The ones who only want to think positive about this have nothing to talk about anyway, it is all secret. Their mosts are nothing more than than the same thing as well, saying "oh I can't wait" over and over. :yawn:
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 7, 2012 10:36AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-07 09:51, GaryLee wrote:
If you all ignore his posts? The only reason why he keeps posting is because some of you have nothing to do than either count his posts or interrogate him for posting so many times. If it wasn't for his posts, the interrest in this thread would of died 15 pages ago.

Some of you seem a little obsessed with Sirbrad's posts. Who cares how many times he posts, what's it to anyone else anyways? Why does it concern you so much on how many times someone posts, even if all they are doing is repeating themselves. Sounds like he's not the only one repeating themselves around here.

Are you worried he may influence others from not subscribing? What's the real beef for singling out Sirbrad. Maybe it's because your sick and tired of reading his posts? May I suggest a very simple solution? Stop reading his posts, stop coming to this thread. It's not like you have anything else to contribute to the thread. Gee wilacures men, grow up! ha, ha
[/quote]

Wow! Someone who gets it finally! :lol: I thought I was living in a different world than everyone else. But I guess I am not the one who is delusional. The real problem is "they can't hande the truth!"
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 7, 2012 10:39AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-07 10:11, Tom Jorgenson wrote:
No, I think it's more the annoyance at the unceasing passive/aggressive rudeness and the juvenile sangfroid that disallows any real conversation. Could be that the emotional level of the responses are at about the level of a 12 year old, too. It's probably both.
[/quote]

Sometimes I have to come down to those levels so that those with such mentalities do not feel left out. I thought I was doing you a favor.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 7, 2012 10:42AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-07 11:04, matthew wright wrote:
I personally have two problems with this Real Secrets?

1) There is an old saying in magic, "the only way to keep it secret is to publish it". I think that by trying to make it such a secret thing there will be more pirate copies flying around than ever.

2) What are you going to get? 99.999% of marketed magic I will never buy because it just isn't for me. What makes this so amazing that it is going to hit twelve times? Or even once out of twelve times?

Yeah there are some good names associated with it but so what. I have books FULL of Max Maven material that I am never gonna do. I can't believe that Max has been saving his very best stuff just for this project. Same goes for every other contributor. I've seen the Michael Weber mind-reading manuscript that was bought for £60 and thought it was pretty poor for the price. I can't imagine what he will be putting out for $12?
[/quote]

That is why I think this whole idea will flop. Regardless whether or not the material is stellar, the whole concept and poor business practices will ultimately put a damper on the whole thing.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 7, 2012 10:54AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-07 11:32, GaryLee wrote:
It'll all come down to a matter of opinion and personal taste. What might be a terrible effect to one person may turn out to be the staple for someone else. I know sometimes I hate a trick that someone else loves. It's not because I'm right and they're wrong, it's a matter of taste and opinion. Some people can see the use of things that others discard as being useless and uneffective.
[/quote]

That is so true. Aaron Fisher's Panic is one of the best products ever to be released. But a friend of mine doesn't like ti because the 4 kings aren't signed ( like in Traveler's ). lol. To each their own.
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Mar 7, 2012 11:01AM)
At least 260 "platinum" memberships have been purchased. Do the math. No, I'll do the math: $36,400.00 in the coffers (bare minimum).

A failure? Hardly.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Mar 7, 2012 11:39AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-07 12:01, Michael Jay wrote:
At least 260 "platinum" memberships have been purchased. Do the math. No, I'll do the math: $36,400.00 in the coffers (bare minimum).

A failure? Hardly.

Mike.
[/quote]

I'm not sure I'd be too happy with 260 sign ups-- that's 0.5% of the registered Café Members.

Twelve contributors who would --if they got 100% of takings , get $3000 dollars each but then you have to take off Real Secrets take, cost of production for gimmicks , post and packaging. So either contributors are making very little out of this or the gimmicks themselves are going to be very very basic.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 7, 2012 12:41PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-07 12:01, Michael Jay wrote:
At least 260 "platinum" memberships have been purchased. Do the math. No, I'll do the math: $36,400.00 in the coffers (bare minimum).

A failure? Hardly.

Mike.
[/quote]

Is that after taxes and fees? I never said it would be a failure for the seller. And yeah, based on just the Café member count alone that is "hardly" a success with April around the corner. Their little time limit and no back issues scheme is actually going to cost them a lot of money. You do the math. Also due to the fact that we are not allowed to know anyone's name behind it all makes me very suspicious of many of the supporters in this thread.
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 7, 2012 12:53PM)
I'd like this Topic locked.

But not until I start a new Topic in Latest And Greatest about my NEW EXCITING OPPORTUNITY for ALL magicians, hobbyists, amateurs and pros!

COUNTERFEIT REVELATIONS! Featuring effects and routines from some of our most talented and creative minds in magic today! LIKE Michael Ammar! Jay Sankey! David Stone! And Max Maven!

Now it's not really those guys, but my buddy Jim has a Southern accent like Ammar and can do a pretty convincing French Drop.

A guy in the office, Smitty, also has a lot of kinetic energy like Sankey. I gave him a large black Marks-A-Lot to create the mind-blowing Shadow Chips Routine you'll use immediately at your next venue, whether sitting, standing or reclined!

My cousin, Ammanda, speaks French like David Stone---I mean I heard she has taken a few French lessons---and we already have a year's supply of the realistic looking gimmicks made by the best Asian artisans for her amazing America Fries routine. You've never seen anything like it! AND you'll be one of the first and only to have this astonishing effect starting in April! It's a KILLER at McDonald's!

My friend Chris is truly a Mental Magic genious. Not too far into your Annual Commitment, you'll receive the colorful mysterious Wheel Of Integers, a portable mentalist's tool you can use for countless performances! Unlimited possibilities only limited by your imagination! Criss, oops, I mean Chris, with his black goatee and ponytail, has an uncanny resemble to a certain Mr. Goldstein.

And MUCH MORE! All you have to do is send $120 to this unknown poster and his unknown friends, The Counterfet Revelations Team! Yay!, to our unsecure Website and we'll starting mailing this junk,er, I mean these unique items and their illusive secrets to your front door!

Notice our subscription fee is less than the competitor! IF there were a competitor, that is. Of course, you'll be locked into a five year commitment, but we buried that in the fine print using a 3 font.

Counterfet Revelations! The Latest and Greatest! We PROMISE not to rip you off!

(Atom3339 saunters off to his library to study Hilliard, Tarbell and Bobo....)
Message: Posted by: Jim Sparx (Mar 7, 2012 01:00PM)
You didn't mention me. What am I, chopped liver?
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 7, 2012 01:04PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-07 12:01, Michael Jay wrote:
At least 260 "platinum" memberships have been purchased. Do the math. No, I'll do the math: $36,400.00 in the coffers (bare minimum).

A failure? Hardly.

Mike.
[/quote]

Let me do the math. 260 purchased with time running out rapidly. 50,281 Café members.

260 out of 50,281.

FAIL.

With their time limit scheme they were banking on thousands of members to join by this time.
Message: Posted by: Jim Sparx (Mar 7, 2012 01:11PM)
This is not the only place they are advertising and we do not know where the OP got that information and that is the "platinum" membership. I don't see how that is a fail.
I have heard that the average sale of an effect or book is about 500 tops during the life of the product, anything over that is gravy.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 7, 2012 01:25PM)
Maybe average effects but not the more popular ones. Heck the stealth Pen, Raven, Bite out quarter, Healed and Sealed, and Born To Perform at Penguin sold that many in a week, and many others thanks to Blaine specials. I also highly doubt they were all platinum orders, he simply made that up to boost the cost up. I am betting most are regular and 3 month subscriptions. If they are advertising elsewhere that is even MORE of a FAIL. I would consider anything less than 5,000 a FAIL. Like I said before if it is truly $12 a month, and so "great" give us an option to pay monthly without any commitments. They can't do that because the product does not exist which is why they need all the full year's payments to produce it.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 7, 2012 01:49PM)
Why DO people think writing FAIL in CAPS is more persuasive than using the word 'failure'?

It is aggressive, loud, annoying and ultimately boring: like watching a toothless dog chasing its own tail. A failure of wit, a failure of grammar, and a collosal failure as entertainment.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 7, 2012 01:56PM)
I agree; anyone who would use "fail" as a noun is a huge FAIL!
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 7, 2012 02:39PM)
It's slang and more fun. You both FAIL. Using the full term is for "boring" people who like to act as though a discussion forum is a college term paper. When all you got left is to study and critique a forum member's grammar on a magic forum, well you are a FAILURE in life most likely. So at least I am giving you something to do so you feel revelant. Any more personal attacks or should we go back to discussing why you should not waste money on Real Secrets?
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 7, 2012 02:46PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-07 14:49, tomsk192 wrote:
Why DO people think writing FAIL in CAPS is more persuasive than using the word 'failure'?

It is aggressive, loud, annoying and ultimately boring: like watching a toothless dog chasing its own tail. A failure of wit, a failure of grammar, and a collosal failure as entertainment.
[/quote]

You just proved that writing only FAIL is far more persuasive. Persuasive enough for you to want to make a post about it. Looks like you FAILED to prove anything expect that I was right. :lol:

EPIC FAIL!
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 7, 2012 02:47PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-07 13:53, Atom3339 wrote:
I'd like this Topic locked.

But not until I start a new Topic in Latest And Greatest about my NEW EXCITING OPPORTUNITY for ALL magicians, hobbyists, amateurs and pros!

COUNTERFEIT REVELATIONS! Featuring effects and routines from some of our most talented and creative minds in magic today! LIKE Michael Ammar! Jay Sankey! David Stone! And Max Maven!

Now it's not really those guys, but my buddy Jim has a Southern accent like Ammar and can do a pretty convincing French Drop.

A guy in the office, Smitty, also has a lot of kinetic energy like Sankey. I gave him a large black Marks-A-Lot to create the mind-blowing Shadow Chips Routine you'll use immediately at your next venue, whether sitting, standing or reclined!

My cousin, Ammanda, speaks French like David Stone---I mean I heard she has taken a few French lessons---and we already have a year's supply of the realistic looking gimmicks made by the best Asian artisans for her amazing America Fries routine. You've never seen anything like it! AND you'll be one of the first and only to have this astonishing effect starting in April! It's a KILLER at McDonald's!

My friend Chris is truly a Mental Magic genious. Not too far into your Annual Commitment, you'll receive the colorful mysterious Wheel Of Integers, a portable mentalist's tool you can use for countless performances! Unlimited possibilities only limited by your imagination! Criss, oops, I mean Chris, with his black goatee and ponytail, has an uncanny resemble to a certain Mr. Goldstein.

And MUCH MORE! All you have to do is send $120 to this unknown poster and his unknown friends, The Counterfet Revelations Team! Yay!, to our unsecure Website and we'll starting mailing this junk,er, I mean these unique items and their illusive secrets to your front door!

Notice our subscription fee is less than the competitor! IF there were a competitor, that is. Of course, you'll be locked into a five year commitment, but we buried that in the fine print using a 3 font.

Counterfet Revelations! The Latest and Greatest! We PROMISE not to rip you off!

(Atom3339 saunters off to his library to study Hilliard, Tarbell and Bobo....)
[/quote]

Real Secrets may file a lawsuit for stealing their idea, and will now want "more money" from you.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 7, 2012 02:58PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-07 15:46, sirbrad wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-07 14:49, tomsk192 wrote:
Why DO people think writing FAIL in CAPS is more persuasive than using the word 'failure'?

It is aggressive, loud, annoying and ultimately boring: like watching a toothless dog chasing its own tail. A failure of wit, a failure of grammar, and a collosal failure as entertainment.
[/quote]

You just proved that writing only FAIL is far more persuasive. Persuasive enough for you to want to make a post about it. Looks like you FAILED to prove anything expect that I was right. :lol:

EPIC FAIL!
[/quote]

Perhaps my post was about you, rather than to you?

Reminds me of a joke about boring p****s,

How do they change a lightbulb? Stand on a stool and wait for the room to revolve around them.

It must be awfully dark in your house, sirbrad.

(this one was addressed to you)
Message: Posted by: IDOTRIX (Mar 7, 2012 03:26PM)
He's a working pro, have respect!
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 7, 2012 03:28PM)
No it is very well lit actually. The Café is the only dark place, although slightly brighter than Ellusionist. My "real life" is very positive and full of great things, and just because I am honest and outspoken about a magic product does not make my house, or life dark and negative. You are the one focusing on the negative, and falsely perceiving it as such simply because it opposed your own opinion. Or maybe it is just an alter-ego used to rile up people who take online forums far too seriously, and used for my own and other's entertainment? Who knows? Maybe I could call you overly optimistic? But I prefer not to engage in "childish name-calling" as many here do, and foucs on the product. But I think based on the fact that there is nothing else for anyone to talk about now except my posts, only further proves my point about this "secret" product. Case closed.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 7, 2012 03:43PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-07 11:35, sirbrad wrote:

I am trying to save the magic world.
[/quote]

My, aren’t we the omniscient deity. Sorry, I forget to mention humble as well. ;)
Message: Posted by: edh (Mar 7, 2012 03:45PM)
I think he was being sarcastic.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 7, 2012 03:50PM)
And I might add, succeeding quite well at it.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 7, 2012 05:16PM)
Absolutely! I also really like the idea of getting a mystery box. I bought a Creative magic portion and it is really fun.
No need to compare, I understand Creative magic is much more transparent than Real Secrets.
James


[quote]
On 2012-03-07 11:32, GaryLee wrote:
It'll all come down to a matter of opinion and personal taste. What might be a terrible effect to one person may turn out to be the staple for someone else. I know sometimes I hate a trick that someone else loves. It's not because I'm right and they're wrong, it's a matter of taste and opinion. Some people can see the use of things that others discard as being useless and uneffective.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 7, 2012 05:23PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-07 15:39, sirbrad wrote:
It's slang and more fun. You both FAIL. Using the full term is for "boring" people who like to act as though a discussion forum is a college term paper.[/quote]
...or people who aren't in their teens.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 7, 2012 05:26PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-07 15:58, tomsk192 wrote:
Reminds me of a joke about boring p****s,

How do they change a lightbulb? Stand on a stool and wait for the room to revolve around them.
[/quote]
:lol:
Message: Posted by: Jim Sparx (Mar 7, 2012 05:38PM)
Wow, this thread has morphed into serious glares and "I don't like you" school yard recess rock throwing. No longer any fun. Adios...
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 7, 2012 05:40PM)
Wait, who's gonna be our chopped liver now?!
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Mar 7, 2012 06:56PM)
I'm Eddie Garland and I keep Real Secrets.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 7, 2012 06:58PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-07 19:56, Eddie Garland wrote:
I'm Eddie Garland and I keep Real Secrets.
[/quote]

Of course, you're from Hell's Kitchen. Not hot like it was in the 70's......but a great place where street guys still have a code!
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Mar 8, 2012 08:13AM)
Quite honestly, the success or failure of this venture will be judged by two criteria:

1) The money that they put in their pockets once the dust settles

2) The customers' reaction

Even if they only net .5% of the members of this forum, that still adds up to big bucks. If that .5% of them are pleased with their purchase, then you have the opportunity to expand your customer base.

Regardless of it all, the group that is working this scheme is making money while the rest of us are sat here, on our collective ass, whining.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Mar 8, 2012 08:49AM)
Hey Mike, not all of us are whining!! :)

And I'm not even sure it's all that many that are. It's just that some are doing so much of it, it might sound like a lot.
Message: Posted by: sevenup (Mar 8, 2012 11:16AM)
All of this will be much clearer come April. Regardless how everything turns out, I for one will have fun going through the process. I hope I don't spend too much money in their secret store though. That's where some of the calculations are off determining RS success.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 8, 2012 06:13PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-07 16:28, sirbrad wrote:
....Or maybe it is just an alter-ego used to rile up people who take online forums far too seriously, and used for my own and other's entertainment...
[/quote]

Wow, full marks for doing that. While you are talking slang and hanging with... who?

Your street talk is truly awe inspiring; I daresay my kids would be wowed by your sheer street credibility. I could take you for a walk in our street, and with your attitude it's ten to a half your head would be well and truly kicked in within 3 minutes.

It's not just old men who respond badly to prats, the rest of us do too.
Message: Posted by: Real Secrets Team (Mar 10, 2012 05:33PM)
The Premiere installment of Real Secrets will be mailed on the first of April. After March 30th, all new orders will begin with the May installment which will ship May 1st. After the first of each month, it will not be possible to obtain prior installments. For those wise enough to have invested in an application for Platinum level membership, there will be additional interesting objects and unusual things you will receive in your first and following installments. You will not know what to do with these mysterious items ... so simply save them and await special bonus instructions. You are in for many happy treats and surprises along the way.

Close to the end of March all applicants will be sent notification as to their pending membership status. Those whose applications were not able to be approved will be issued prompt notice and a 100% refund of their application fees. Those who are accepted as members of the Real Secrets Community will receive a new, unique membership number that should be kept secure and not shared with anyone else. In addition, we will reconfirm each new member's information to ensure prompt, accurate shipments each and every month.

We sincerely thank those who have applied for membership. Rest assured the ongoing happy surprise and satisfaction of our members is one of our most important goals. Remember that any member may cancel his membership at any time and receive a timely pro-rata refund of their application or membership fees. Many surprises and lots of great magic await the members of our limited and exclusive community and we are looking forward to the start of something special and important.

The Real Secrets Team
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 10, 2012 06:35PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-10 18:33, Real Secrets Team wrote:
The Premiere installment of Real Secrets will be mailed on the first of April. After March 30th, all new orders will begin with the May installment which will ship May 1st. After the first of each month, it will not be possible to obtain prior installments. For those wise enough to have invested in an application for Platinum level membership, there will be additional interesting objects and unusual things you will receive in your first and following installments. You will not know what to do with these mysterious items ... so simply save them and await special bonus instructions. You are in for many happy treats and surprises along the way.

Close to the end of March all applicants will be sent notification as to their pending membership status. Those whose applications were not able to be approved will be issued prompt notice and a 100% refund of their application fees. Those who are accepted as members of the Real Secrets Community will receive a new, unique membership number that should be kept secure and not shared with anyone else. In addition, we will reconfirm each new member's information to ensure prompt, accurate shipments each and every month.

We sincerely thank those who have applied for membership. Rest assured the ongoing happy surprise and satisfaction of our members is one of our most important goals. Remember that any member may cancel his membership at any time and receive a timely pro-rata refund of their application or membership fees. Many surprises and lots of great magic await the members of our limited and exclusive community and we are looking forward to the start of something special and important.

The Real Secrets Team
[/quote]
Wait just a minute...APPLICANTS? [b]Pending[/b] membership status? So everyone who has already sent money to Real Secrets is just an applicant whose membership may be refused? On what grounds? And did they know when they sent the money that they were just "applying" for "membership"? (I've seen a lot of people talking about how excited they are about getting that first surprise in the mail; I haven't seen a single person saying "I hope my application is accepted.")

And what about the money these customers-suddenly-turned-applicants sent to Real Secrets? What's their money doing between the time they sent it to Real Secrets and the time they're rejected and receive a refund?

April 1 is seeming a more and more appropriate date for the launch of this thing.
Message: Posted by: edh (Mar 10, 2012 06:45PM)
[quote]And what about the money these customers-suddenly-turned-applicants sent to Real Secrets? What's their money doing between the time they sent it to Real Secrets and the time they're rejected and receive a refund?[/quote]

Collecting interest for the Real Secrets Team. ;)
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 10, 2012 06:51PM)
I'm an excited Real Secrets "applicant"!
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 10, 2012 07:22PM)
I haven't felt the need to sign up to this. But I do think that speculation is just that: speculation.

Let it be, as they say on the subcontinent. It really is noone else's business. The arguments against this sort of marketing have been made clearly and loudly.

Time will tell. Maybe the whole thing will fall flat, who knows?

On the other hand, it might be great. I won't be included in that, but will be happy for others that are, if it happens.

As others have mentioned, I've got enough books and imagination to suit my own, humble, needs. But if money were no object, I'd take a punt on this, just to see.

The one thing I can say confidently is that Real Secrets have so far managed to actually be secretive. Respect.

If Doc Eason was a contributor, I'd take out a mortgage for the subscription.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 10, 2012 07:25PM)
I hope my application is accepted!
James
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 10, 2012 08:36PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-10 20:25, Xiqual wrote:
I hope my application is accepted!
James
[/quote]
I see what you did there! :)

But I have to ask: When you sent your money, did you know you were actually just applying for membership, and that your application might be refused and your money refunded weeks later? Or is this news to you?
Message: Posted by: Judah Vee (Mar 10, 2012 09:02PM)
I am still in. No risk, no reward. I continue support with no reservation....

-Judah-
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 10, 2012 09:16PM)
FrenchDrop,
You know I appreciate your rationality in thinking things through. I wasn't trying to anger you or start trouble. I was sincerely hoping I get accepted. I was not aware of the membership aspect. It is ok with me.
James

[quote]
On 2012-03-10 21:36, FrenchDrop wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-10 20:25, Xiqual wrote:
I hope my application is accepted!
James
[/quote]
I see what you did there! :)

But I have to ask: When you sent your money, did you know you were actually just applying for membership, and that your application might be refused and your money refunded weeks later? Or is this news to you?
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 10, 2012 09:32PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-10 22:16, Xiqual wrote:
FrenchDrop,
You know I appreciate your rationality in thinking things through. I wasn't trying to anger you or start trouble.[/quote]
Dude! I know that. When I wrote that I hadn't seen anyone say "I hope I get accepted," and then you posted "I hope I get accepted," I thought you were kidding around with me.

For my part, I'm not trying to start an argument with any of the people who've gone in for Real Secrets. But I am genuinely curious about whether any of them knew about this "application" thing and how they feel about learning that there's apparently a possibility they'll be rejected.

I'm also curious about the basis on which Real Secrets would reject a customer. And why they're only now suggesting that some customers who have paid the fee may not get subscriptions. And why they won't know who they're going to accept and who they're going to reject until late March. Are they going to keep some people's $144 for a month or more, then refund it? Why? And if they reject some "applicants," will those people be told why they were rejected?

Until now, the only thing about Real Secrets that struck me as dodgy was the fact that the people behind it don't want anyone to know who they are. Now, though...with people who thought they had subscriptions suddenly being called "applicants" who might not get a subscription and might not get their money back for weeks, it makes me wonder if things behind the scenes are not going quite as planned.
Message: Posted by: insight (Mar 10, 2012 09:34PM)
It is my sincere hope that folks don't use the fraud word...this is deceptive marketing at worst
/
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 10, 2012 09:57PM)
I got a full refund less than 24 hours after cancelling the automatic renewal. Made it pretty clear to me that "membership" was not guaranteed!
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 10, 2012 10:28PM)
"happy surprise"=giddy applicants.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 10, 2012 11:26PM)
This is actually getting better.

With all the torrent sites, internet exposure, etc. we now have a club that is is being selective on who joins.

You can get your money back now, or have it pro-rated if you don't feel it's for you.

Let's keep the faith!
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 10, 2012 11:51PM)
Has anyone here asked for a refund who didn't get it right away? Because it sounds to me like we have to beg them to take our money and not refund it!
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Mar 11, 2012 12:02AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 00:26, Zombie Magic wrote:
This is actually getting better.
[/quote]

Yes! Hooray!
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 11, 2012 12:07AM)
Gosh I never thought of it like that. Ok, here goes.
I HOPE I get accepted, please.
Kind People, of Real Secrets. Who are all probably very nice. And attractive.
James
ps
and kind


[quote]
On 2012-03-11 00:51, newguy wrote:
Has anyone here asked for a refund who didn't get it right away? Because it sounds to me like we have to beg them to take our money and not refund it!
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 11, 2012 05:41AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 00:26, Zombie Magic wrote:
This is actually getting better.

With all the torrent sites, internet exposure, etc. we now have a club that is is being selective on who joins.[/quote]
Selectivity is great if you're sure you won't be left out. But that requires having some idea what the club's standards are. What are the standards for Real Secrets? Who's going to be accepted, and who's going to be rejected?

What are the standards by which one "potential member" becomes accepted and another is rejected? It'd be nice to know that, surely. However, given that "Real Secrets" has only posted three times on this board and doesn't seem big on addressing the concerns of paid customers -- sorry, "potential members" -- or prospective customers, I'd recommend that no one holds his breath for an answer.

[quote]Let's keep the faith!
[/quote]
At this point, "faith in what?" is the question. Faith that the product will be worth the money? Or faith that, at the end of March when anticipation is at its highest, you'll get something more than a rejection and a refund (and be one of those who got more for his money than the privilege of briefly loaning $144 to Real Secrets)?

Come early April, will paid subscribers to "Real Secrets" be divided into people saying "I just got my first shipment, and it's great" and people who just got a refund (after a month of excitedly waiting for their surprise package) and have to wonder what those who were accepted got -- and why they weren't accepted?

At this point, I think one of two things is true, neither of which is encouraging: Either the Real Secrets people planned all along to reject some "applicants" after hanging onto their money for weeks (or more than a month), or the Real Secrets people have belatedly realized they may have bitten off more than they could chew, and they're now playing up the exclusivity angle to explain why they're going to have to turn away some paying customers. Either way...the emperor's clothes are starting to look a little ragged. :P I sincerely do hope that those who actually do get something out of Real Secrets get what they were expecting.
Message: Posted by: slyhand (Mar 11, 2012 07:05AM)
The only standards I see is the terms and conditions that one clicked to agree with in the first place.
They can't change the conditions after one has agreed and paid.

I am sure the only reason someone from the RS team wrote that is to stir up more controversy and speculation.

Publicity, publicity, publicity.
Message: Posted by: todsky (Mar 11, 2012 07:34AM)
Maybe it really is an elaborate April Fool's joke: On April 1st everyone gets their money refunded, and Real Secrets remains forever a Real Secret.
Message: Posted by: Michael Daniels (Mar 11, 2012 07:41AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 06:41, FrenchDrop wrote:

Selectivity is great if you're sure you won't be left out. But that requires having some idea what the club's standards are. What are the standards for Real Secrets? Who's going to be accepted, and who's going to be rejected?

[/quote]

And don't forget Groucho Marx: "I don't want to belong to any club that will accept people like me as a member".

Mike
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Mar 11, 2012 08:47AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 08:05, slyhand wrote:
The only standards I see is the terms and conditions that one clicked to agree with in the first place.
They can't change the conditions after one has agreed and paid..
[/quote]

Actually - it was only after a person prominent in the magic business reported that he had canceled the dubious "recurring payment" on his Paypal account after being accepted as a member, and several of us then did the same, that the RS people decided to no longer live up to their advertised "one time annual fee." So yes, they did change the rules. Some of us have already been kicked out.
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Mar 11, 2012 09:37AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 09:47, billmarq wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 08:05, slyhand wrote:
The only standards I see is the terms and conditions that one clicked to agree with in the first place.
They can't change the conditions after one has agreed and paid..
[/quote]

Actually - it was only after a person prominent in the magic business reported that he had canceled the dubious "recurring payment" on his Paypal account after being accepted as a member, and several of us then did the same, that the RS people decided to no longer live up to their advertised "one time annual fee." So yes, they did change the rules. Some of us have already been kicked out.
[/quote]

Bill, I can understand why you say it but "kicked out" and similar phrases really wind me up in this case. There's a fantastic bit of psychology here where the EReal Secrets team (unknown) are selling a product or products (unknown) and are managing to get magicians to think that Real Secrets are doing them a favour by allowing them to join --incredible. They want your money --this isn't some piece of altruism.

Frankly the idea that they can take your money and then decide (for reasons unknown) that tyou haven't been accepted is a joke.

I'd be really keen to know what the criteria for acceptance is before I ever let them have my money.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 11, 2012 10:38AM)
I thought I would have fun with this. Since they want to be so secretive, I thought I would become a part time investigator. It's been really fun so far, and I would like to thank realsecrets for making this interresting.

I was accused some time ago by realsecrets (specifically one person in general) of lying about making an order, and requesting a refund. I proved that he was lying. Cameran says they might have made a mistake, and not known someone had already given the refund. Well, I gave him the benifit of the doubt to at least apologize if it were a mistake. It was no accident folks. He blatantly lied about me, and I haven't forgotten about it.

Now, that I have two names that are involved with realsecrets, I plan on having some real fun. Oh, also folks, it should be noted that nothing in their conditions is legally binding. Their terms are not even legal because it can be interpretated in several different ways. Mostly for their side, not the customer.

I know of someone who is now waiting for approval of membership. A few people have joined just to debunk this thing in April.This might be the reason why they keep changing their rules, which also makes any terms or agreements to be not legally binding. I'm not involved with that, but I am at the moment waiting to see if the person (s) behind realsecrets will be respectfully be paying their taxes. I'd hate to see them get audited. Come to think of it, that could be just as fun as figuring out who is behind realscrets. The only reason why I'm not throwing one name out right now is because I do have a little respect for this person and what they are going through.

Realsecrets, no secret anymore. I can't wait until April!
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 11, 2012 10:46AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 06:41, FrenchDrop wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 00:26, Zombie Magic wrote:
This is actually getting better.

With all the torrent sites, internet exposure, etc. we now have a club that is is being selective on who joins.[/quote]
Selectivity is great if you're sure you won't be left out. But that requires having some idea what the club's standards are. What are the standards for Real Secrets? Who's going to be accepted, and who's going to be rejected?

What are the standards by which one "potential member" becomes accepted and another is rejected? It'd be nice to know that, surely. However, given that "Real Secrets" has only posted three times on this board and doesn't seem big on addressing the concerns of paid customers -- sorry, "potential members" -- or prospective customers, I'd recommend that no one holds his breath for an answer.

[quote]Let's keep the faith!
[/quote]

At this point, I think one of two things is true, neither of which is encouraging: Either the Real Secrets people planned all along to reject some "applicants" after hanging onto their money for weeks (or more than a month), or the Real Secrets people have belatedly realized they may have bitten off more than they could chew, and they're now playing up the exclusivity angle to explain why they're going to have to turn away some paying customers. Either way...the emperor's clothes are starting to look a little ragged. :P I sincerely do hope that those who actually do get something out of Real Secrets get what they were expecting.
[/quote]

Another possibility: If there are not enough subscribers to "make their nut", they can quietly and easily fold their tent and who would know? Everybody gets a refund and assumes they were rejected, creating a "real" secret as no one is left to tell or are sworn to absolute secrecy!
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 11, 2012 11:53AM)
Last time I was promised a "happy surprise" was many years ago.

From a stunning young woman.

It did not turn out the way I thought it would.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 11, 2012 12:07PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 08:05, slyhand wrote:
The only standards I see is the terms and conditions that one clicked to agree with in the first place.
They can't change the conditions after one has agreed and paid.[/quote]
From the terms and conditions: "[b]You agree that your membership may be canceled for any reason[/b] by Real Secrets and any existing prorated subscription will be reimbursed if you are not in violation of Terms and Conditions."

No time element is mentioned. So anyone who paid for a subscription (or "applied for membership") agreed up front that Real Secrets could nix the deal at any time and for any reason.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 11, 2012 12:13PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-10 18:33, Real Secrets Team wrote:

Remember that any member may cancel his membership at any time
The Real Secrets Team
[/quote]

What do you mean HIS? Are you implying that girls are not gullible enough to join? :lol: Keep making me look good Real Secrets. :lol: Now I know why they don't say much because the more they say the less "wise" people want to join. Notice how they change the terms anytime they want, or keep info from those who already paid? Kinda scary, I wonder how many other changes will be magically applied later? So there is pending memberships now? :lol: I can't belive there are so many suckers falling for this. That it is an old marketing tactic, make people feel "exclusive" and "special" and they will continue throwing you money. Also used in a lot of SCAMS. You have no criteria to even make such a judgement, all you have is an address and email from paypal. :lol: But I bet those "approved" will assume that they were somehow one of the "elite few" because someone did some "secret" research and found out just how special they were, and approved immediately! :lol: When in reality anyone who pays will be "selected". This offer is a joke and wreaks of foul play.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Mar 11, 2012 12:13PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 12:53, Atom3339 wrote:
Last time I was promised a "happy surprise" was many years ago.

From a stunning young woman.

It did not turn out the way I thought it would.
[/quote]

Now, if she's promised you a "happy ending", maybe it would have turned out differently.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 11, 2012 12:16PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-10 19:35, FrenchDrop wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-10 18:33, Real Secrets Team wrote:
The Premiere installment of Real Secrets will be mailed on the first of April. After March 30th, all new orders will begin with the May installment which will ship May 1st. After the first of each month, it will not be possible to obtain prior installments. For those wise enough to have invested in an application for Platinum level membership, there will be additional interesting objects and unusual things you will receive in your first and following installments. You will not know what to do with these mysterious items ... so simply save them and await special bonus instructions. You are in for many happy treats and surprises along the way.

Close to the end of March all applicants will be sent notification as to their pending membership status. Those whose applications were not able to be approved will be issued prompt notice and a 100% refund of their application fees. Those who are accepted as members of the Real Secrets Community will receive a new, unique membership number that should be kept secure and not shared with anyone else. In addition, we will reconfirm each new member's information to ensure prompt, accurate shipments each and every month.

We sincerely thank those who have applied for membership. Rest assured the ongoing happy surprise and satisfaction of our members is one of our most important goals. Remember that any member may cancel his membership at any time and receive a timely pro-rata refund of their application or membership fees. Many surprises and lots of great magic await the members of our limited and exclusive community and we are looking forward to the start of something special and important.

The Real Secrets Team
[/quote]
Wait just a minute...APPLICANTS? [b]Pending[/b] membership status? So everyone who has already sent money to Real Secrets is just an applicant whose membership may be refused? On what grounds? And did they know when they sent the money that they were just "applying" for "membership"? (I've seen a lot of people talking about how excited they are about getting that first surprise in the mail; I haven't seen a single person saying "I hope my application is accepted.")

And what about the money these customers-suddenly-turned-applicants sent to Real Secrets? What's their money doing between the time they sent it to Real Secrets and the time they're rejected and receive a refund?

April 1 is seeming a more and more appropriate date for the launch of this thing.
[/quote]


Did you finally wake up and lift those blinders up and let the light shine in? :lol: Who is the foolish teen now? :lol: I hope you sent in your money. No one will be rejected unless they can't fulfill the orders, and that is the ONLY reason. They are simply telling you that so you feel special once you are "accepted". So many gullible magicians here, I hope it is just because they are "teens" who know nothing about scam artists and life yet. But this will your wake-up call.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 11, 2012 12:21PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-10 22:34, insight wrote:
It is my sincere hope that folks don't use the fraud word...this is deceptive marketing at worst
/
[/quote]

That is yet to be proven, could be a lot WORSE later. Some people are going to be REAL ****ed when they cancel their membership 3 months in, and you never find out what that useless, strage little prop did. :lol:
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 11, 2012 12:25PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 06:41, FrenchDrop wrote:
[quote]
(or more than a month), or the Real Secrets people have belatedly realized they may have bitten off more than they could chew, and they're now playing up the exclusivity angle to explain why they're going to have to turn away some paying customers. [/quote]

BINGO! OK so there is some hope for you afterall.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 11, 2012 12:28PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 08:05, slyhand wrote:

They can't change the conditions after one has agreed and paid.


[/quote]

Well scam artists do this all the time. Legitimate compines don't. Now you know the REAL reason they don't want anyone knowing who they are. That way no one will comg knocking later on looking for their money they were scammed out of.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 11, 2012 12:30PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 08:34, todsky wrote:
Maybe it really is an elaborate April Fool's joke: On April 1st everyone gets their money refunded, and Real Secrets remains forever a Real Secret.
[/quote]

I thought that as well bt did not want to say anything. But a lot of people would be really ****ed. Well at least about 300 people would really ****ed, and 5 Platinum members.
Message: Posted by: JeremyM0411 (Mar 11, 2012 12:35PM)
Ok, I have not commented on time on this thread but here we go. How can a company take your money and you have to wait and see if you get the item? This goes back to simple contract law. In a contract both party's have to give a little to get something. Once you agree on the terms and you sign the contract, or in this case pay the money, neither party can not change the terms of that said agreement. Well once they said Applicant that changed everything! So when you agreed to the terms and they changed them now they are null and void! You can't change terms every five mins and expect people to follow them. So all that about not posting or commenting about the material or posting videos no longer applies! I bet within 2 hours, if you end up get anything in the mail, this will be all over youtube! They should have made you submit a applicant form and if you are accepted then pay then! Not the other way around! I hope everything with this pans out for everyone.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 11, 2012 12:35PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 13:16, sirbrad wrote:
Did you finally wake up and lift those blinders up and let the light shine in?
[/quote]

[quote]
On 2012-03-11 13:25, sirbrad wrote:
BINGO! OK so there is some hope for you afterall.
[/quote]
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Oh, Brad. If you were interested in reading anything other than your own countless, verbose, incredibly arrogant and condescending posts in this thread, you'd know I haven't signed up for anything, and that I've expressed doubts about Real Secrets from the very start.

That, however, shouldn't lead you to believe you and I have anything in common here. Despite my doubts, I'm not on your "side" -- I'm not interested in dividing this matter into sides -- and given your manner, I wouldn't want you on my side anyway.

[quote]Who is the foolish teen now?[/quote]
You really shouldn't toss softballs right across the plate like that, Brad. :lol:
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 11, 2012 01:40PM)
It's not a get rich quick real estate scam. It's just some magician(s) trying to do something different and fun. I don't really care at this point about their business model. In about 3 weeks what I do care about is the magic I receive. If t's a plastic toy with a single sheet of poorly written instructions, I'll know it's not for me and I can get a large pro-rated portion of my money back.

Personally, I feel it's going to be a fantastic piece of magic not available for the masses.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 11, 2012 01:42PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 14:40, Zombie Magic wrote:
It's not a get rich quick real estate scam. It's just some magician(s) trying to do something different and fun. I don't really care at this point about their business model. In about 3 weeks what I do care about is the magic I receive.
[/quote]
...assuming your "application" is accepted, that is. ;)
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 11, 2012 01:59PM)
I wonder if the people running it actually read the stuff we write on here and other boards? There are a handfull of folks I'd kick out for bad attitude alone. I realize I got booted becuase I messed with their model. They gave me the "opportunity" to reapply (they actually used the word reapply in the email to me) but I figure I can wait to see what people are saying after the first prop arrives.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 11, 2012 02:08PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 11:38, GaryLee wrote:
I thought I would have fun with this. Since they want to be so secretive, I thought I would become a part time investigator. It's been really fun so far, and I would like to thank realsecrets for making this interresting.

I was accused some time ago by realsecrets (specifically one person in general) of lying about making an order, and requesting a refund. I proved that he was lying. Cameran says they might have made a mistake, and not known someone had already given the refund. Well, I gave him the benifit of the doubt to at least apologize if it were a mistake. It was no accident folks. He blatantly lied about me, and I haven't forgotten about it.

Now, that I have two names that are involved with realsecrets, I plan on having some real fun. Oh, also folks, it should be noted that nothing in their conditions is legally binding. Their terms are not even legal because it can be interpretated in several different ways. Mostly for their side, not the customer.

I know of someone who is now waiting for approval of membership. A few people have joined just to debunk this thing in April.This might be the reason why they keep changing their rules, which also makes any terms or agreements to be not legally binding. I'm not involved with that, but I am at the moment waiting to see if the person (s) behind realsecrets will be respectfully be paying their taxes. I'd hate to see them get audited. Come to think of it, that could be just as fun as figuring out who is behind realscrets. The only reason why I'm not throwing one name out right now is because I do have a little respect for this person and what they are going through.

Realsecrets, no secret anymore. I can't wait until April!
[/quote]

Why all the secrets? Secrets exposing secrets? :lol:
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 11, 2012 02:10PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 14:59, newguy wrote:
I wonder if the people running it actually read the stuff we write on here and other boards? There are a handfull of folks I'd kick out for bad attitude alone. I realize I got booted becuase I messed with their model. They gave me the "opportunity" to reapply (they actually used the word reapply in the email to me) but I figure I can wait to see what people are saying after the first prop arrives.
[/quote]
I think if the Real Secrets people see a post by someone whose attitude they don't like, they'll be looking at someone who didn't sign up in the first place -- so they won't have to worry about rejecting that person. Matching message board handles to subscribers' names would likely be problematic anyway.

When you say you got booted because you messed with their model, do you mean because you disabled the auto-renewal dealie via PayPal?
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 11, 2012 02:14PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 14:59, newguy wrote:
I wonder if the people running it actually read the stuff we write on here and other boards? There are a handfull of folks I'd kick out for bad attitude alone. I realize I got booted becuase I messed with their model. They gave me the "opportunity" to reapply (they actually used the word reapply in the email to me) but I figure I can wait to see what people are saying after the first prop arrives.
[/quote]

Some say attitude, namely the sellers and blind supporters. Others say informed, competent, cautious awareness...and openly expressing their opinion. If they want to "kick out" those it is no loss. But then again that group will not join anyway. Also how will they be able to tell who is who? I am sure not everyone has their forum name in their Paypal address. Unless Real Secrets are psychic.
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 11, 2012 02:17PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 11:38, GaryLee wrote:
I'm not involved with that, but I am at the moment waiting to see if the person (s) behind realsecrets will be respectfully be paying their taxes. I'd hate to see them get audited.

[/quote]

Out of curiosity, how could you possibly know that?
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 11, 2012 02:32PM)
Tom, there's lots of ways to know many things, but the reality is that folks have their panties in a bunch over buying a magic trick every month.
To answer an earlier question to me, yes, when I read about shutting off the autorenewal on this very thread I went in and did it too.

I am amazed and not at all surprised how crazy we have all become by being turned into laymen again.

I remember going to real magic shops where there were mysteries and secrets that the magician behind the counter would not sell to a customer who was, in his opinion, not ready.

This might be too optimistic, but what if that is what these people are trying to recreate? Can you imagine how batsh*t everyone of us is going to go if these tricks turn out to be anywere near as good as we are imagining?

What if only 200 magicians in the world had the Invisible Deck or Extreme Burn?

I might be talking myself into putting my money back in with a new "application" before April rolls around.

I think the Jedi mind trick is working on me.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 11, 2012 02:35PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 13:35, FrenchDrop wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 13:16, sirbrad wrote:
Did you finally wake up and lift those blinders up and let the light shine in?
[/quote]

[quote]
On 2012-03-11 13:25, sirbrad wrote:
BINGO! OK so there is some hope for you afterall.
[/quote]
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Oh, Brad. If you were interested in reading anything other than your own countless, verbose, incredibly arrogant and condescending posts in this thread, you'd know I haven't signed up for anything, and that I've expressed doubts about Real Secrets from the very start.

That, however, shouldn't lead you to believe you and I have anything in common here. Despite my doubts, I'm not on your "side" -- I'm not interested in dividing this matter into sides -- and given your manner, I wouldn't want you on my side anyway.

[/quote]

OK well if you ever want to come over to the "brighter side" you can pply at anytime. However the terms of the form can change at anytime and you may be rejected.

OH I get it, you like to swing both ways. That way if this falls through you can say "I told you so", and it is successful you can say "I told you so" and that way you fit in with either crowd. Are you going to be running for office soon?
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 11, 2012 02:44PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 15:32, newguy wrote:
I remember going to real magic shops where there were mysteries and secrets that the magician behind the counter would not sell to a customer who was, in his opinion, not ready.

This might be too optimistic, but what if that is what these people are trying to recreate?[/quote]
I don't think that's optimistic...I think it's unrealistic. How are the Real Secrets people going to determine which of the people who signed up on their website are "ready" for what they're selling and which aren't?

Assuming this whole thing of paid customers suddenly becoming "applicants" isn't just a ploy to make Real Secrets seem exclusive and drum up more sales, there are very few standards they can use to decide who's accepted and who's not. They have no way of knowing your level of magic knowledge or competence; they can have no idea what your ethic as a magician is...all they know is that you agreed to their terms and you apparently have at least $144. If they reject anyone before the first items are even shipped, the most likely reason will be that they didn't have enough to meet demand -- or, as someone else suggested, that they didn't get enough subscribers to make the project profitable, and they're canceling the whole thing.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 11, 2012 02:49PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 15:35, sirbrad wrote:
OH I get it, you like to swing both ways. That way if this falls through you can say "I told you so", and it is successful you can say "I told you so" and that way you fit in with either crowd. Are you going to be running for office soon?
[/quote]
Actually, I like to avoid extremes, because -- as I suggested in a very early post on this thread -- extremes are almost always wrong. And I don't like being wrong, so I avoid saying things that might make me look foolish later.

I understand that some people don't mind looking foolish. Some people even have a knack for making such extreme statements that they look foolish long before they can be vindicated or proven wrong. But I'm not naming any names, Brad.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 11, 2012 02:52PM)
Bottomline: Don't buy an invisible product from an invisible company with invisible terms that are subect to change. That is the REAL secret here. Even more hilarious I had some offer to buy this for me if I would just shut up. :lol: But I declined and stand my ground as that is not the issue, I can buy this if I wanted to. The issue is the whole deceptive, misleading business practice behind it all. I don't want to see a lot of people get ripped off. Many here are too blind to see my real intentions, but some actually can. I don't like people being taken advantage of by swindlers who think that everyone will fall for their marketing schemes.

Maybe this product is not a scam as far the the tricks, too soon to tell. But the business practices wreak of scamming, or incompetence and ignorance. I am not the villain here. It may come as a shock to many, but I actually hope it works out for all who buy it. I am just stating my opinion and what I have seen based on a lot of experience. Later.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 11, 2012 02:59PM)
How utterly patronising. Public defender #1, sirbrad. Perhaps I need to go back to Roget, perhaps irritating boor is synonymous with helpful.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 11, 2012 02:59PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 15:49, FrenchDrop wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 15:35, sirbrad wrote:
OH I get it, you like to swing both ways. That way if this falls through you can say "I told you so", and it is successful you can say "I told you so" and that way you fit in with either crowd. Are you going to be running for office soon?
[/quote]
Actually, I like to avoid extremes, because -- as I suggested in a very early post on this thread -- extremes are almost always wrong. And I don't like being wrong, so I avoid saying things that might make me look foolish later.

I understand that some people don't mind looking foolish. Some people even have a knack for making such extreme statements that they look foolish long before they can be vindicated or proven wrong. But I'm not naming any names, Brad.
[/quote]

"No risk no reward." ;) I would rather look really great or really bad than just in between and mediocre all the time. I stand firm in my beliefs regardless of circumstance or fear of looking bad. So maybe I am the REAL one who is actually living? But in this case I am simply adhering to common sense, and common business sense.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 11, 2012 03:06PM)
And the way RS has it all set up, no one can be proven wrong even those who say it is scam. The buyers cannot show the effects nor discuss them. Nor can they relish them or talk about how great they are in detail. So you won't be able to prove it either way. I wonder how long RS took to figure this BS pitch out? Obviously it works on about 300 people. But it will never work on 30,000 or even a 1,000 I would bet. Thank God. Enjoy your Real Secrets! :)
Message: Posted by: sevenup (Mar 11, 2012 03:07PM)
I think this thread would be so boring if it wern't for sirbrad. I nearly coughed my lungs out on the following quote:

"Bottomline: Don't buy an invisible product from an invisible company with invisible terms that are subect to change."

I have a cold right now so the lungs are not doing so well.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 11, 2012 03:10PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 15:59, sirbrad wrote:
"No risk no reward." ;) I would rather look really great or really bad than just in between and mediocre all the time.[/quote]
Do you really think, after the volume of posts you've made here and the tone you've taken in them, that you could possibly "look really good" to anyone? Even if you're completely vindicated, do you honestly believe you're going to come out of this smelling like a rose?

If so, that's the first really funny thing you've said in this thread.
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 11, 2012 03:11PM)
Sirbrad, I may have it all wrong, and I am sure you will tell me if I do, but my outsider's understanding is that the big issue is exposure, not expression of satisfaction or dissatisfaction.

Everything they have written is consistiant and unchanging in their promise that all folks have to do is ask for a refund and they will get it.

Is there anyone who asked for their money back and has not received it yet? Garylee, did you really send them money and then not get it back? I am a bit confused by what you did or did not do to test their honesty.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 11, 2012 03:18PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 15:59, tomsk192 wrote:
How utterly patronising. Public defender #1, sirbrad. Perhaps I need to go back to Roget, perhaps irritating boor is synonymous with helpful.
[/quote]

Not really, I never attacked anyone I only made jokes about the alleged product. The supporters quoted and attacked me constantly, so then I "defended" myself. But that is the nature of the green beast and I expect it after all these years.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 11, 2012 03:19PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 16:07, sevenup wrote:
I think this thread would be so boring if it wern't for sirbrad. I nearly coughed my lungs out on the following quote:

"Bottomline: Don't buy an invisible product from an invisible company with invisible terms that are subect to change."

I have a cold right now so the lungs are not doing so well.
[/quote]

Thanks, my posts can be healing or kill you.
Message: Posted by: MickNZ (Mar 11, 2012 04:58PM)
Getting back on topic ...

When does the first issue come out?
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 11, 2012 05:04PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 17:58, MickNZ wrote:
Getting back on topic ...

When does the first issue come out?
[/quote]

"Real Secrets" posted that it ships April 1st.
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 11, 2012 05:28PM)
Right, so their big warning was to let us know that once the party starts it is too late to play catch-up
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 11, 2012 06:12PM)
The number of "What if Real Secrets....." and "It will be hilarious when..." posts
are staggering. No facts, just jumping to ridiculous conclusions. Like sour grapes.

I am still excited. YIPPEEEEE!!!!! I agree with Clarke, who cares about their business model?
James
Message: Posted by: insight (Mar 11, 2012 06:30PM)
Is the business model completely irrelevant in yo
ur opinion??
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 11, 2012 07:01PM)
Yes. the business model of Real Secrets is completely irrelevant to me.

The contributors will be Gaetan Bloom, Cyril, Michael Weber, Robert Neale, Max Maven, Axel Hecklau, Paul Wilson, Christian Engblom among others.

Michael Weber was plugging Real Secrets at his lecture and said he was excited. On the third video from The Magic Place from Blackpool, Tim Trono, who is being interviewed, says this is Michael Weber's project. Good enough for me.

The recurring payment is such a non issue.

I am intrigued by the mystery, if that makes me an idiot or naive in some people's mind so be it.
James




[quote]
On 2012-03-11 19:30, insight wrote:
Is the business model completely irrelevant in yo
ur opinion??
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 11, 2012 07:49PM)
James, Will Real Secrets prevent you from reviewing their products / effects on this forum?
Message: Posted by: nooner (Mar 11, 2012 07:54PM)
If Real Secrets is coming on here every few days and dropping these little nuggets of info to get people talking, they are doing an amazing job and should be congratulated. I find the entire thing fascinating to watch with all the speculation flying around. It certainly has me more interested in the product than I would have been if no one were chatting it up. For those trying their hardest to dismiss the idea and organization behind it, what they are are really accomplishing is getting more eyes on the product which I assume is what the vendor wants.
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 11, 2012 08:11PM)
Nooner, I don't find anyone "doing their hardest" to dismiss anything. There is a lot of discussion because there are a lot of questions. You think they are doing an "amazing job" because this thread continues? It may have kept the intrigue factor going for you, but I personally think they have lost THOUSANDS of potential applicants / subscribers because of their "secretive" approach.
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 11, 2012 08:22PM)
If the "secrets" are quality, why would members not want to honor the notion of secrecy?

Have magician's forgotten what sets us apart? Or has the art been replaced by a hobby?
Message: Posted by: edh (Mar 11, 2012 08:27PM)
Newguy, I would say 90% of people on the forum are hobbyists/part time performers.

There are more hobbyists than there are performers.

Most products advertised here are geared towards the hobbyists.
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 11, 2012 08:30PM)
Edh,
You are probably right. Are the rules of an art elevated my its Masters or the masses?
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 11, 2012 08:40PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 20:54, nooner wrote:
If Real Secrets is coming on here every few days and dropping these little nuggets of info to get people talking, they are doing an amazing job and should be congratulated. I find the entire thing fascinating to watch with all the speculation flying around. It certainly has me more interested in the product than I would have been if no one were chatting it up. For those trying their hardest to dismiss the idea and organization behind it, what they are are really accomplishing is getting more eyes on the product which I assume is what the vendor wants.
[/quote]

Well, that is rather obvious, no? The question is, once the vender has what it wants, what does it deliver? I am trying to think of just one model in the " real world" but, apart from Bernie can not come up with one. Could you help me?
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 11, 2012 08:45PM)
Mr. Mystoff,

What could you imagine in a best of all worlds scenario?

Is there any chance that these guys actually deliver, buyers like what they get, play along, keep getting more things they like, month after month.

What would that be like?

Too impossible to imagine?
Message: Posted by: jtmorris (Mar 11, 2012 09:31PM)
Ironically there's not enough secrets in magic these days. Perhaps I'm a bit idealistic or nieve, but I'm looking forward to this. It'll be fun.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 11, 2012 09:37PM)
I will post if I think it is good,great,so so, but I will not tell anyone what it is or describe the effects in any way.
That's the deal. People talk. If you tell your best buddy, he will absolutely tell his best buddy. I will keep the secret absolutely.
James
ps
ok, I'll tell my wife but she will NEVER tell.


[quote]
On 2012-03-11 20:49, Atom3339 wrote:
James, Will Real Secrets prevent you from reviewing their products / effects on this forum?
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 11, 2012 10:01PM)
Xiqual,

Be careful not to shut off your wife's autorenewal!
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 11, 2012 10:33PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 22:37, Xiqual wrote:
I will post if I think it is good,great,so so, but I will not tell anyone what it is or describe the effects in any way.
That's the deal. People talk. If you tell your best buddy, he will absolutely tell his best buddy. I will keep the secret absolutely.
James
ps
ok, I'll tell my wife but she will NEVER tell.
[/quote]
She'll tell her best friend! But her best friend will say "What the hell is an ace assembly?"
Message: Posted by: toberman (Mar 11, 2012 11:27PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 19:12, Xiqual wrote:
The number of "What if Real Secrets....." and "It will be hilarious when..." posts
are staggering. No facts, just jumping to ridiculous conclusions. Like sour grapes.

I am still excited. YIPPEEEEE!!!!! I agree with Clarke, who cares about their business model?
James
[/quote]

I'm excited too, James. I think it's going to be a lot of fun and I'm glad to be in it from the beginning. I have a feeling that the first shipment, April 1st, will contain a really strong effect and there will be a large subscriber increase in April.

Of course we will still have the skeptics warning us of impending doom.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 11, 2012 11:52PM)
Right? Then she will say "Men and their toys." Then they will go back to ruling the world.
James


[quote]
On 2012-03-11 23:33, FrenchDrop wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 22:37, Xiqual wrote:
I will post if I think it is good,great,so so, but I will not tell anyone what it is or describe the effects in any way.
That's the deal. People talk. If you tell your best buddy, he will absolutely tell his best buddy. I will keep the secret absolutely.
James
ps
ok, I'll tell my wife but she will NEVER tell.
[/quote]
She'll tell her best friend! But her best friend will say "What the hell is an ace assembly?"
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 11, 2012 11:56PM)
To me, that's what it is about. A lot of fun. I am already having fun just thinking about the monthly surprise.
Like I said, I bought a Creative magic portion, and it is so much fun. Trying to guess what will come in the box every three months.

I also think the first month will be really strong. I also have a "feeling" it will not be just one thing.
James

[quote]


I'm excited too, James. I think it's going to be a lot of fun and I'm glad to be in it from the beginning. I have a feeling that the first shipment, April 1st, will contain a really strong effect and there will be a large subscriber increase in April.

Of course we will still have the skeptics warning us of impending doom.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 12, 2012 12:04AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-12 00:56, Xiqual wrote:
Like I said, I bought a Creative magic portion, and it is so much fun. Trying to guess what will come in the box every three months. [/quote]
I remember checking out the Creative site when that deal was first offered. If I performed regularly and did platform magic, I'd be sorely tempted...and part of the temptation would be the "mystery box" factor.

So I get that. I do have my doubts about Real Secrets -- the details and reasons for which I've stated and won't belabor here -- but I do get the attraction of the monthly-magic-surprise thing. And I really do hope it turns out great. I'm personally not getting a promising vibe -- but I'm just one dude.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 12, 2012 03:09PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 21:45, newguy wrote:
Mr. Mystoff,

What could you imagine in a best of all worlds scenario?

Is there any chance that these guys actually deliver, buyers like what they get, play along, keep getting more things they like, month after month.

What would that be like?



Too impossible to imagine?
[/quote]

newguy-

It was not my intention to cast stones here, please forgive me if it sounded that way. To answer your questions:

What could you imagine in a best of all worlds scenario?
More like what I am used to when I purchase something. Usually you can see it, feel it, get reviews on it- hell, Bose just gave me a 60 day free trial on their Wave system, as did DR Trimmer and Tempurpedic. Bought a diamond and got to take it for an appraisal before purchase. Please don't tell me how little the amount of this deal is, I don't adjust lifetime habits because the stakes are small any more than Tiger Woods goofs off on the golf course.

Is there any chance that these guys actually deliver, buyers like what they get, play along, keep getting more things they like, month after month.
Of course, there is always a chance. However, "It may be that the race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong - but that's the way to bet."
Damon Runyon - Guys and Dolls (1932)

What would that be like?
It would be... refreshing, and I hope it turns out just that way.

Too impossible to imagine?
I have a really good imagination, so no.

And now, perhaps you will consent to answer the question I asked:

The question is, once the vender has what it wants, what does it deliver? I am trying to think of just one model in the " real world" but, apart from Bernie can not come up with one. Could you help me?

Mr. Mystoffelees, if you please...

p.s. Xiqual- How NEAT that you are part of the Creative idea! I wanted to do it, but I love their stuff and have most of it already. I am glad it is working out, and hope RS does as well! Ain't that Creative stuff great??

Jim
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 12, 2012 03:41PM)
Perhaps they are breaking new ground here, making their own new 'model'. We shall see. I think the whole thing is exciting.

"The question is, once the vender has what it wants, what does it deliver? "

We do not know what the vendor wants...we do know that loot is obviously not their top priority. So, judging the future by the past, this should well be worth its money.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 12, 2012 03:46PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-12 16:41, Tom Jorgenson wrote:
We do not know what the vendor wants...we do know that loot is obviously not their top priority.[/quote]
We do? How so?
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 12, 2012 04:48PM)
@ Frenchdrop-

Well, they'd have handled everything much differently. Wouldn't you have, if profit was your top priority?

They'd have been on every forum touting this to the skies, would have been very loud and verbose, and would have had all their friends online too, trying to drum up business, just like most every new release in the field. So far, the dignified restraint portends minor miracles and sundry amazements. So far it's been 'Here's what it is and how much it is, and the rules. It's going to be fun, climb onboard if you want.'

You don't turn people away if you want their money. This ain't The Sting. It's creative people doing a new creative thing and getting trashed for it by everyone who knows nothing about it, but disagrees with some point of the business model.

My response to this is just opposite of yours...I got a good vibe on this from the git-go. I KNOW how much fun this thing could be, and I know nothing bout it. I'm waiting for April...

...and that maddening silence from the members.
Message: Posted by: DelMagic (Mar 12, 2012 04:52PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-12 16:46, FrenchDrop wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-12 16:41, Tom Jorgenson wrote:
We do not know what the vendor wants...we do know that loot is obviously not their top priority.[/quote]
We do? How so?
[/quote]

Because they gave money back when people weren't happy with the terms of program. If they were in it for the money, they wouldn't be "ejecting" those who already paid but then turned off the auto-renewal. They returned $144 per person for those who didn't turn it back on. That's $144 they already had in their coffers and they did that based on a 2nd transaction that wasn't going to happen for another 11.5-12 months anyway. For those who have money as their top priority, that's an odd way to do business. People who are in it for the cash would do all they could to widen the membership base and hold on to those who paid, rather than blatantly limit it. Consider the new "applications" as well.

And I am not convinced this all some grand reverse psychology plan to make people want it by withholding it from them. This won't be easy. I'll bet magicians who buy stuff with ads, reviews, videos, etc. still don't like half of the stuff they get so it's going to be hard to satisfy the customer here if this isn't quality material.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 12, 2012 05:07PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-12 17:52, DelMagic wrote:
Because they gave money back when people weren't happy with the terms of program. If they were in it for the money, they wouldn't be "ejecting" those who already paid but then turned off the auto-renewal. They returned $144 per person for those who didn't turn it back on. That's $144 they already had in their coffers and they did that based on a 2nd transaction that wasn't going to happen for another 11.5-12 months anyway. For those who have money as their top priority, that's an odd way to do business.[/quote]
That's an...interesting way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it would be that they're enforcing a policy that says "If you want what we're selling, you have to agree to let us automatically charge you another $144 next year." So, in about a year's time, they'll be able to look at the number of subscribers they still have, do a little simple math, and know they've got a guaranteed injection of X amount of dollars coming soon.

That doesn't speak of an operation that's not in it primarily for the money. Neither does having people pay for a year's worth of product in advance, sight-unseen.

Of [b]course[/b] the Real Secrets people are in it primarily for the money. There's nothing wrong with that. So's Tannen's, Penguin, BBM, Paper Crane, etc. There are easier ways of making money, more lucrative things to sell, bigger markets to go after, so I'm sure they're all in it for the love of magic, too -- but they ain't non-profit organizations.

It's up to every individual to decide if he wants to sign up for Real Secrets. It may turn out to be a fantastic deal. It's too soon to say, and only the most cynical person would assume it's a scam this early in the game. I just think everyone who goes for it should do so with open eyes. Telling yourself Real Secrets isn't in it primarily for the money is as bad as telling yourself they're hiding their identities to make things more fun for the customer.
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 12, 2012 05:25PM)
Not to be splitting hairs, but I think there's a difference between the terms 'top priority' and 'primarily for the money'. At any rate, it's all moot: Opinions and Blue Smoke until April.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 12, 2012 05:57PM)
Except with Paypal, it does not work like that. In March of 2013, you just go to your private section and unclick the recurring payment box. No payment will go out to Real Secrets. You will, of course be turned down for the next year. Sellers cannot even alter this function. They cannot turn it back on or turn it off.
James
ps
I do want to ask what is wrong with making money? When I do shows, I am all about getting paid. I want as high a fee as the market will bear. When I negotiate my fee for teaching, I also charge as much as I can get. In business, if you do not charge what the market will bear, you will fail. Just wondering why people seem to scorn making money.

[quote]
On 2012-03-12 18:07, FrenchDrop wrote:

That's an...interesting way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it would be that they're enforcing a policy that says "If you want what we're selling, you have to agree to let us automatically charge you another $144 next year." So, in about a year's time, they'll be able to look at the number of subscribers they still have, do a little simple math, and know they've got a guaranteed injection of X amount of dollars coming soon.


[/quote]
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 12, 2012 06:28PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-12 18:57, Xiqual wrote:
Except with Paypal, it does not work like that. In March of 2013, you just go to your private section and unclick the recurring payment box. No payment will go out to Real Secrets. You will, of course be turned down for the next year.[/quote]
I'm not saying Real Secrets can use the automatic renewal to force people to pay who don't want to continue their subscriptions; I'm saying it's a way of making sure they get another $144 for every satisfied customer on a specific date without having to bill anyone or wait for procrastinators to renew manually.

There's also the "easier to ask forgiveness later than ask for permission" factor -- why put a subscriber in a position of thinking "Do I really like Real Secrets enough to pay another $144 for another year?" when they can just quietly take the auto-renewal money and leave the customer to think "Okay, well, I guess I'll stick with it since I've already paid." :D There's a reason so many businesses offer automatic payment options: It's good for business. It promotes a steadier, more predicable stream of revenue. Not many businesses make auto-payment a requirement of continued service...but Real Secrets does.

[quote]I do want to ask what is wrong with making money?[/quote]
Nothing at all. I don't think anyone has said there's anything wrong with it. (In fact, I said "there's nothing wrong with that" in the post you just quoted. :D) I have no objection to the fact that they're trying to make money. I have no objection to anything they do to try and maximize their revenues. I just find any suggestion that Real Secrets is NOT trying to do those things to be...unrealistic. ;)
Message: Posted by: DelMagic (Mar 12, 2012 08:06PM)
[quote]
"If you want what we're selling, you have to agree to let us automatically charge you another $144 next year." [/quote]

This is simply wrong. They don't get to automatically charge everyone, only those who agree to let it go or forget to turn it off. Those that don't want to have the charge made can turn it off. And those that forget to turn it off can cancel anytime they want.

[quote]
So, in about a year's time, they'll be able to look at the number of subscribers they still have, do a little simple math, and know they've got a guaranteed injection of X amount of dollars coming soon.
[/quote]

No, there is no "guaranteed" injection as has been explained multiple times in this thread. People can turn it off and cancel at any time. If it is a lousy program, the renewal money will be slim to none.

[quote]
That doesn't speak of an operation that's not in it primarily for the money. Neither does having people pay for a year's worth of product in advance, sight-unseen.
[/quote]

Since your other two premises don't hold up, neither does this conclusion. In general, I think it is common for subscriptions to paid for a year in advance for material that is sight-unseen.

[quote]
Of [b]course[/b] the Real Secrets people are in it primarily for the money.
[/quote]

You simply don't know this. It is your assumption. No one claims this is non-profit or a great charity but claiming money is their PRIMARY motivation is overstating it based on what we know at this time.

[quote]
Telling yourself Real Secrets isn't in it primarily for the money is as bad as telling yourself they're hiding their identities to make things more fun for the customer.
[/quote]

I'm not worried.
Message: Posted by: writeall (Mar 12, 2012 08:40PM)
I have seen a lot of promises in this thread about reviews after some material has been recieved. That won't help. Good or bad, whatever comes in the mail will be something others can't buy anyhow.

"I got this really wonderful thing from Real Secrets."
"Really? What was it?"
"Can't say, but it's wonderful, top drawer!"
"How can I get it?"
"You can't. It's gone for good."
"Can you show me a video of it so I can see the effect?"
"Sorry, no."
"Oh. Well in that case, let me tell you about this really great meal I had in Tibet before the Chinese got there..."
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 12, 2012 09:01PM)
Not likely reviews of products will happen ( it will be deleted if it happens ). What will spread through the community quickly is whether it was/is worth it.
Message: Posted by: writeall (Mar 12, 2012 09:06PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-12 22:01, Zombie Magic wrote:
Not likely reviews of products will happen ( it will be deleted if it happens ). What will spread through the community quickly is whether it was/is worth it.
[/quote]

But even that doesn't help much. Unless you believe that "was worth it" is the same as "will continue to be worth it." It's the predicting the future part that mirrors exactly where we are now.

I should 'fess up. I'd sign on if money weren't tight. As it is, this whole kerfuffle has led me to revisit my magic library where I'm discovering lots of "new to me" stuff. And I'm going to buy a gaffed coin I've been lusting after instead.

Still, I feel the pull just as hard as anyone and will be jealous.
Message: Posted by: MagicBrent (Mar 12, 2012 10:45PM)
Did they say if there was gonna be a special real secrets forum to discuss it like Paul Harris had for his True Astonishments set?
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Mar 12, 2012 11:02PM)
Why does it matter what their "motives" are? If they're in it 100% for the money (which I do not believe, because if someone is that driven by money, they'll probably be managing a hedge fund or some other occupation that makes 10,000% more than magic), then so what? Good for them. All that matters is whether people feel they got their money's worth. And since none of us will know that until April at the soonest, everything until then is just p***ing in the wind.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 12, 2012 11:22PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 22:37, Xiqual wrote:
I will post if I think it is good,great,so so, but I will not tell anyone what it is or describe the effects in any way.
That's the deal. People talk. If you tell your best buddy, he will absolutely tell his best buddy. I will keep the secret absolutely.
James
ps
ok, I'll tell my wife but she will NEVER tell.


[quote]
On 2012-03-11 20:49, Atom3339 wrote:
James, Will Real Secrets prevent you from reviewing their products / effects on this forum?
[/quote]
[/quote]

That may sound great for "you" but others would simply be annoyed and not take your word for it. In fact I would not even bother reading a review telling me how great "something" was with no evidence, or description of the items. That is almost as bad as buying "something" that I do not even know what it is. That is just silly. So any reviews will be pointless, and non one will care anyway because you can't prove how bad or good the item is. Any gleaming review would just be nothing more than an attempt to showcase that you have something others don't. But if they can't see it, or know what it is the review is not credible and not worth reading.

Also Real Secrets is not reading all these posts, they only check their paypal account often.
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Mar 12, 2012 11:25PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-12 21:40, writeall wrote:
I have seen a lot of promises in this thread about reviews after some material has been recieved. That won't help. Good or bad, whatever comes in the mail will be something others can't buy anyhow.

"I got this really wonderful thing from Real Secrets."
"Really? What was it?"
"Can't say, but it's wonderful, top drawer!"
"How can I get it?"
"You can't. It's gone for good."
"Can you show me a video of it so I can see the effect?"
"Sorry, no."
"Oh. Well in that case, let me tell you about this really great meal I had in Tibet before the Chinese got there..."
[/quote]
Not necessarily so. Even if the product is fantastic, there will be those who simply are not happy with it. They will cancel their membership and, more than likely, they will be vocal about what they received. They will also be prepared to sell the material that they received and, since they no longer are associated with it, they will happily tell everyone what it is that they are buying.

Furthermore, the internet is filled with people who have names that keep their real identity a secret. Some of them will buy into this with no other intention than exposing what they get. This is what feeds their ego (like that sirbrad chap that doesn't know how to spell the word, "reek," when it is related to smell).

Mike.
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Mar 12, 2012 11:31PM)
By the by (and sorry for the double post) has anyone considered the possibility of buying this and simply not opening the package when it comes? While at this very moment that doesn't mean anything, 20 years from now it could be a real collector's item.

Just a thought.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 12, 2012 11:33PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-12 22:06, writeall wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-12 22:01, Zombie Magic wrote:
Not likely reviews of products will happen ( it will be deleted if it happens ). What will spread through the community quickly is whether it was/is worth it.
[/quote]

But even that doesn't help much. Unless you believe that "was worth it" is the same as "will continue to be worth it." It's the predicting the future part that mirrors exactly where we are now.

I should 'fess up. I'd sign on if money weren't tight. As it is, this whole kerfuffle has led me to revisit my magic library where I'm discovering lots of "new to me" stuff. And I'm going to buy a gaffed coin I've been lusting after instead.

Still, I feel the pull just as hard as anyone and will be jealous.
[/quote]

That is the problem with this shady business tactic. The reviews will be as invisible as the product and the company who sells it. And if anyone says "it is worth it!" who is really going to care? You can't buy back issues anyway. It would be pointles to even read any type of so-called review. This whole shady marketing tactic is to get as many people to pay NOW and hoping forget about the recurring payment and KEEP paying next year. I still can't believe how many are falling for this. I would not order based on the recurring payment being forced on me alone even if I knew what I was getting. So no, that mathod does not make them more money in my case, it makes them ZERO from me.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 12, 2012 11:40PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-13 00:25, Michael Jay wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-12 21:40, writeall wrote:
I have seen a lot of promises in this thread about reviews after some material has been recieved. That won't help. Good or bad, whatever comes in the mail will be something others can't buy anyhow.

"I got this really wonderful thing from Real Secrets."
"Really? What was it?"
"Can't say, but it's wonderful, top drawer!"
"How can I get it?"
"You can't. It's gone for good."
"Can you show me a video of it so I can see the effect?"
"Sorry, no."
"Oh. Well in that case, let me tell you about this really great meal I had in Tibet before the Chinese got there..."
[/quote]
Not necessarily so. Even if the product is fantastic, there will be those who simply are not happy with it. They will cancel their membership and, more than likely, they will be vocal about what they received. They will also be prepared to sell the material that they received and, since they no longer are associated with it, they will happily tell everyone what it is that they are buying.

Furthermore, the internet is filled with people who have names that keep their real identity a secret. Some of them will buy into this with no other intention than exposing what they get. This is what feeds their ego (like that sirbrad chap that doesn't know how to spell the word, "reek," when it is related to smell).

Mike.
[/quote]

Sorry, unlike you I don't use a spell checker to find typos in order to try and impress other old men on a magic forum. If that is all you can come up with you "reek" at personal attacking. Nice pic though, was that you back in 50's?
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 12, 2012 11:46PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-13 00:31, Michael Jay wrote:
By the by (and sorry for the double post) has anyone considered the possibility of buying this and simply not opening the package when it comes? While at this very moment that doesn't mean anything, 20 years from now it could be a real collector's item.

Just a thought.

Mike.
[/quote]

Yeah great idea! Buy an invisible product from an invisible seller and then never even open it. Collector's item? I doubt it. Maybe to a few on the Café forums. By that time no one will know or care about it. Also someone could easily reseal the package and claim it was never opened, and no one would be able to compare it because of the limited product. I am surprised a great spell checking chap like you would be so dense.
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Mar 12, 2012 11:46PM)
A spell checker won't help you - it isn't poor spelling, it's ignorance. "Wreak" is a word (as in "wreak havoc"), so spell check will let it pass. You actually have to know the difference between something that reeks (as in smell) and something that wreaks (as in to inflict). These words are something called "homophones."

It's not an attack on you, it is an observation.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 12, 2012 11:56PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-12 21:06, DelMagic wrote:
[quote]
"If you want what we're selling, you have to agree to let us automatically charge you another $144 next year." [/quote]

This is simply wrong. They don't get to automatically charge everyone, only those who agree to let it go or forget to turn it off.[/quote]
And obviously they're counting on a significant number of people agreeing to let it go or forgetting to turn it off. That's why they've made turning off automatic renewal a deal-breaker.

[quote]
No, there is no "guaranteed" injection as has been explained multiple times in this thread. People can turn it off and cancel at any time. If it is a lousy program, the renewal money will be slim to none.[/quote]
Come on -- you don't think they can safely assume that most people who are still subscribers in about a year are going to continue subscribing?

[quote]
In general, I think it is common for subscriptions to paid for a year in advance for material that is sight-unseen.[/quote]
The comparison doesn't really work. How many publications require you to subscribe before you can get a look at what's on offer? Yes -- when you subscribe to Magic or Genii (for example), you have to pay a year's subscription fee up front. But both publications also let you buy single issues any time you want and get a feel for their quality and content before plunking down a year's worth of money.

[quote]You simply don't know this. It is your assumption. No one claims this is non-profit or a great charity but claiming money is their PRIMARY motivation is overstating it based on what we know at this time.[/quote]
This is just semantics. If Real Secrets loses money for its proprietors -- or if it just breaks even -- do you think they'll keep putting in the time and effort involved in acquiring, manufacturing, and distributing their product?
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Mar 13, 2012 12:04AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-13 01:00, sirbrad wrote:
I am aware what each means and their spelling, I type fast and sometimes may post a similar word, or maybe I post spelling errors on purpose so that certain chaps with no life get off on correcting them, and feel important? Or maybe to give them a chance to continue impressing other old men with their cognitive dissonance, and verbose rhetoric that is pointless on a magic forum; other than a feeble attempt at disinterested superiority? But I guess some reclusive misfits need to feel like they are part of the crowd.
[/quote]
You make no sense. You claim I use a spell check and attack me for it. Once I point out that I'm not using a spell check, you claim to know that...You also call me verbose, but my posts are much more concise and to the point.

What does sour grapes have to do with this? And rhetoric?

You, sir, are a laugh.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 13, 2012 12:32AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-13 01:00, sirbrad wrote:
I am aware what each means and their spelling, I type fast and sometimes may post a similar word, or maybe I post spelling errors on purpose so that certain chaps with no life get off on correcting them, and feel important?[/quote]
Holy lord. Can't you just admit you were wrong about something? :lol:
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 13, 2012 12:47AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-13 00:31, Michael Jay wrote:
By the by (and sorry for the double post) has anyone considered the possibility of buying this and simply not opening the package when it comes? While at this very moment that doesn't mean anything, 20 years from now it could be a real collector's item.

Just a thought.

Mike.
[/quote]

Mike, interesting thought. I can imagine how fun it would be to go in the attic 20 years from know and open a chest and dig through and...see what all the fuss was about.

Clarke
Message: Posted by: edh (Mar 13, 2012 12:47AM)
I wonder if the contributers to RS are being paid for their contributions.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 13, 2012 12:55AM)
I hope so. Surely they are.
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 13, 2012 01:18AM)
Ahh, Bradley...

...where every little thought is a cul-de-sac.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 13, 2012 03:21AM)
Except that I don't care if they believe me or not. I have paid my $144, and I am SUPER DUPER EXCITED!!!!!!!!! YIIIIIPPPPEEEEEE!!!!!!

There is no way anyone can rain on my parade.

I have no idea what will come from this, but I am giddy like a school girl. Hey, I think someone actually called me that before.
James aka "giddy schoolgirl"

[quote]
On 2012-03-13 00:22, sirbrad wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-11 22:37, Xiqual wrote:
I will post if I think it is good,great,so so, but I will not tell anyone what it is or describe the effects in any way.
That's the deal. People talk. If you tell your best buddy, he will absolutely tell his best buddy. I will keep the secret absolutely.
James
ps
ok, I'll tell my wife but she will NEVER tell.


[quote]
On 2012-03-11 20:49, Atom3339 wrote:
James, Will Real Secrets prevent you from reviewing their products / effects on this forum?
[/quote]
[/quote]

That may sound great for "you" but others would simply be annoyed and not take your word for it. In fact I would not even bother reading a review telling me how great "something" was with no evidence, or description of the items. That is almost as bad as buying "something" that I do not even know what it is. That is just silly. So any reviews will be pointless, and non one will care anyway because you can't prove how bad or good the item is. Any gleaming review would just be nothing more than an attempt to showcase that you have something others don't. But if they can't see it, or know what it is the review is not credible and not worth reading.

Also Real Secrets is not reading all these posts, they only check their paypal account often.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 13, 2012 08:59AM)
Actually, it seems RS has created one of the most spirited threads in a long time. Although a few posts have gotten a bit too ad hominem, it has been a fun ride. Hopefully the banter will continue.

Have to admit a touch of jealousy over those who are so excited and anticipatory- giddy is hard to come by, and one of life's best gifts. Enjoy!

Jim
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 13, 2012 11:19AM)
Hey, X', send me $144 so you can be even happier!
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 13, 2012 06:01PM)
Wish I could. I'm not that solvent, YET! If this was 2010, I would not even be watching this thread. 2010 was the worst financial year of my life.
In the holiday season, I did 2 shows! Usually in that 2 week period I will do 25-30. It was a killer. We were scraping to get the mortgage payments. Things are finally better and cash flow is coming around. I think correction is on the horizon.
James

[quote]
On 2012-03-13 12:19, Atom3339 wrote:
Hey, X', send me $144 so you can be even happier!
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 13, 2012 06:48PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-13 19:01, Xiqual wrote:
Wish I could. I'm not that solvent, YET! If this was 2010, I would not even be watching this thread. 2010 was the worst financial year of my life.
In the holiday season, I did 2 shows! Usually in that 2 week period I will do 25-30. It was a killer. We were scraping to get the mortgage payments. Things are finally better and cash flow is coming around. I think correction is on the horizon.
James

[/quote]

Crap.....maybe I had best move to Taiwan! Between the gas prices and the property taxes on my home (amongst other numerous taxes here) I should have never retired when I did! It's been seven years now and things are progressively getting worse.

I've not jumped into the RS for obvious financial reasons, but just reading along with inquisitiveness. With that said, it would be much easier reading if some certain member here would stop with his never ending childish rants and showing his [i]true[/i] age. ;)
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 13, 2012 07:28PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-13 19:48, gaffed wrote:

...it would be much easier reading if some certain member here would stop with his never ending childish rants and showing his [i]true[/i] age. ;)
[/quote]

Gaffed, I'll try to make my posts more positive!

:dancing:
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 13, 2012 07:39PM)
Zombie beat me to it! :lol:
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 13, 2012 07:42PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-13 20:28, Zombie Magic wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-13 19:48, gaffed wrote:

...it would be much easier reading if some certain member here would stop with his never ending childish rants and showing his [i]true[/i] age. ;)
[/quote]

Gaffed, I'll try to make my posts more positive!

:dancing:
[/quote]

Well, I can assure you that I certainly was [i]not[/i] referring to you're posts my man! I'm quite confident that [i]everyone[/i] here knows who I was directing my comment to. Well, except for perhaps the one I was referring to as his head has gone to where no man has ever gone before and now seems incapable of removing it. ;)
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Mar 13, 2012 07:56PM)
Greetings to Phil - missed your posts, humor and insights friend :)
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Mar 13, 2012 08:15PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-13 20:42, gaffed wrote:

I'm quite confident that [i]everyone[/i] here knows who I was directing my comment to. Well, except for perhaps the one I was referring to as his head has gone to where no man has ever gone before and now seems incapable of removing it. ;)
[/quote]

Perhaps a good proctologist would help. Or a few years of maturity.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 13, 2012 08:31PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-13 20:56, saysold1 wrote:
Greetings to Phil - missed your posts, humor and insights friend :)
[/quote]

It is GREAT to see Phil back!
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 13, 2012 08:54PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-13 21:15, MaxfieldsMagic wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-13 20:42, gaffed wrote:

I'm quite confident that [i]everyone[/i] here knows who I was directing my comment to. Well, except for perhaps the one I was referring to as his head has gone to where no man has ever gone before and now seems incapable of removing it. ;)
[/quote]

Perhaps a good proctologist would help. Or a few years of maturity.
[/quote]

I think perhaps the latter would be the ticket here....maturity. It will come as time goes by. As the old adage goes; “Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone”. To be quite honest, I would seem to be coming alone. Hey...its [i]easy[/i] to get old! ;)



[quote]
On 2012-03-13 20:56, saysold1 wrote:
Greetings to Phil - missed your posts, humor and insights friend :)
[/quote]

Hey Brett, how’s it going my friend? Not at all too sure about the humor aspect, but suffice to say a little, and I might add, very simple and obvious “insight” into our dear young Café member who feels as though he must try to impress others with obvious lies about his expertise and “30 years” as being a magician. He somewhat blew that whole thing in one of his posts on this thread! Whoops! ;)
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 13, 2012 11:38PM)
Phil,
I am truly sorry to hear that. Part of our recovery is I invented a new venue to teach. I was a full time pro for two years butI really feel agents and PR companies are just the dregs of humanity. Not all, but the bad ones just make you sick. So, I started doing in home teahing for 2-5 year olds. I have been a teacher for 18 years and I love little children. Anyway, try to do what you love and get paid, it will work out because you will work so hard!
Good luck to you,
James


[quote]
On 2012-03-13 19:48, gaffed wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-13 19:01, Xiqual wrote:
Wish I could. I'm not that solvent, YET! If this was 2010, I would not even be watching this thread. 2010 was the worst financial year of my life.
In the holiday season, I did 2 shows! Usually in that 2 week period I will do 25-30. It was a killer. We were scraping to get the mortgage payments. Things are finally better and cash flow is coming around. I think correction is on the horizon.
James

[/quote]

Crap.....maybe I had best move to Taiwan! Between the gas prices and the property taxes on my home (amongst other numerous taxes here) I should have never retired when I did! It's been seven years now and things are progressively getting worse.


[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 13, 2012 11:39PM)
James, thank you for sharing your inspiring story!
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 14, 2012 02:40AM)
You are welcome Clarke. Thanks for reading,
James


[quote]
On 2012-03-14 00:39, Zombie Magic wrote:
James, thank you for sharing your inspiring story!
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Josh Chaikin (Mar 14, 2012 03:49AM)
I read the first page of the thread and that was enough, I don't have the time to read through 24 pages...what I do know is this. Michael Weber talked about "Real Secrets" at his lecture Monday night. During the workshop he did afterwards, he performed and explained two tricks, that completely blew my mind, and the minds of everyone else present, that he said would be in the first release. That was enough to get me to sign up.

Since I don't want to be "out of the clubhouse," as Michael put it, I'll honor the secrecy. I will say that the two tricks he taught were very, very killer (and can be done virtually anywhere with little to no preparation). If the remainder of the releases from "Real Secrets" can at least reach the caliber of this material, it will be a worthy investment. The two effects I speak of are well worth the paltry sum requested for the quarterly subscription.
Message: Posted by: Russell Davidson (Mar 14, 2012 06:49AM)
This product, if you can call it that, is being discussed at length on UK forums too. Most of us are wary, there's the odd one or two that have parted with their cash but they're in the minority.

I find it laughable that anyone would buy in given the circumstances -

1) You don't know what you're getting.
2) You might not even be chosen to receive it. How this will be decided fairly is beyond me.
3) Do you really think it will be new & never seen before? Do me a favour. Nothing in magic is new.
4) You're not allowed to talk about it.
5) RS seem to be using emmotional blackmail to get you to sign up. Buy now or lose out forever.

I'm sure you'll receive items so I won't call it a scam, but the way it's been touted is exactly like a scam. Good luck to those that have paid up. I hope you don't feel ripped off when it starts. Not that any of us non-believers will ever hear about it due to the gagging order you've had to agree to. Even if you're dissatisfied how many of you would be prepared to admit publicly you've been stitched up?
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Mar 14, 2012 07:00AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 07:49, Russell Davidson wrote:
This product, if you can call it that, is being discussed at length on UK forums too. Most of us are wary, there's the odd one or two that have parted with their cash but they're in the minority.

I find it laughable that anyone would buy in given the circumstances -

1) You don't know what you're getting.
2) You might not even be chosen to receive it. How this will be decided fairly is beyond me.
3) Do you really think it will be new & never seen before? Do me a favour. Nothing in magic is new.
4) You're not allowed to talk about it.
5) RS seem to be using emmotional blackmail to get you to sign up. Buy now or lose out forever.

I'm sure you'll receive items so I won't call it a scam, but the way it's been touted is exactly like a scam. Good luck to those that have paid up. I hope you don't feel ripped off when it starts. Not that any of us non-believers will ever hear about it due to the gagging order you've had to agree to. Even if you're dissatisfied how many of you would be prepared to admit publicly you've been stitched up?
[/quote]
I will be the first to voice my opinion if I think I've been stitched up.

Trust me, if they don't deliver you'll be hearing all about it.

I'm taking a risk by giving them my cash. But I believe they are taking the bigger risk by staking their professional reputations on this project.
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Mar 14, 2012 07:13AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 04:49, Josh Chaikin wrote:
I read the first page of the thread and that was enough, I don't have the time to read through 24 pages...what I do know is this. Michael Weber talked about "Real Secrets" at his lecture Monday night. During the workshop he did afterwards, he performed and explained two tricks, that completely blew my mind, and the minds of everyone else present, that he said would be in the first release. That was enough to get me to sign up.

Since I don't want to be "out of the clubhouse," as Michael put it, I'll honor the secrecy. I will say that the two tricks he taught were very, very killer (and can be done virtually anywhere with little to no preparation). If the remainder of the releases from "Real Secrets" can at least reach the caliber of this material, it will be a worthy investment. The two effects I speak of are well worth the paltry sum requested for the quarterly subscription.
[/quote]

Hmm so much for secrets when the effects are being performed AND EXPLAINED at lectures.
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Mar 14, 2012 07:20AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 04:49, Josh Chaikin wrote:
I read the first page of the thread and that was enough, I don't have the time to read through 24 pages...what I do know is this. Michael Weber talked about "Real Secrets" at his lecture Monday night. During the workshop he did afterwards, he performed and explained two tricks, that completely blew my mind, and the minds of everyone else present, that he said would be in the first release. That was enough to get me to sign up.
[/quote]

I don't quite understand how this could be possible. On the very first page, Real Secrets Team specifically stated:

[quote]
On 2012-02-19 00:35, Real Secrets Team wrote:
So what is Real Secrets, why the excitement by some of the top people? Real Secrets is never-before-seen usable, clever, practical close up, mentalism, and a little stand-up magic delivered every month directly to your mailbox.
[/quote]

If Weber performed and taught two of the effects from this magic kit, can they say that it's never before seen?

Am I crazy or have they broken their end of the deal?

Mike.

Edited in:

Sorry, Ray, you beat me to it.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 14, 2012 09:10AM)
Interresting! They've now lied a few times, and now they are changing and breaking their own rules. The warning signs keep coming.
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 14, 2012 11:22AM)
So.....as long as one attends a Michael Weber lecture, they will find out who is behind RS and some of what they're offering.

Otherwise.....
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 14, 2012 11:26AM)
I have a friend that went to the Webber lecture in KC on Monday night. He told me that he praised Real secrets in a special workshop after the lecture but that he only talked about the level of the magic that he had given to the project.

Josh, are you sure he showed you actual tricks from the first release? My friend would not tell me any specifics but said thatt everything Webber did used ordinary objects. How is it possible this was Real secret effects if there were no special props?

There is just so much speculation about all of this, every new piece of evidence seems to make things more confusing.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 14, 2012 11:29AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 10:10, GaryLee wrote:
Interresting! They've now lied a few times, and now they are changing and breaking their own rules. The warning signs keep coming.
[/quote]

It's exactly like when someone runs for President. That system works quite well here in the U.S. so I'm glad to see a magic company use that as their model!

I LOVE the controversy on this!
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 14, 2012 02:22PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 12:26, newguy wrote:
Josh, are you sure he showed you actual tricks from the first release? My friend would not tell me any specifics but said thatt everything Webber did used ordinary objects. How is it possible this was Real secret effects if there were no special props?
[/quote]
I doubt every single shipment every month is going to contain special props. Would that even be desirable? A whole bunch of new effects, none of which can be done without special props?

I found it kind of encouraging that someone had apparently seen Weber perform some great effects from his Real Secrets contributions. But I can understand how annoying it would be, if exclusivity was one of the major attractions for you, to know that a bunch of magicians out there had already seen -- and been taught -- those effects, weeks before RS is even due to ship them to subscribers (and that's even assuming they'll be the first effects shipped). If RS is promising exclusivity and never-before-seen material without getting the contributors to agree that they won't teach these tricks at lectures, it's kind of an empty promise.
Message: Posted by: Josh Chaikin (Mar 14, 2012 02:26PM)
I need to retract my previous statement...Weber did give high endorsement to the RS project and did show material to us that was from another project. These items were NOT from the Real Secrets project, I should've referenced my notes better before making a statement.

It was a very long evening and I remembered things incorrectly.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 14, 2012 02:35PM)
Josh, thank you for taking the time to revise that!
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 14, 2012 03:07PM)
Yes, that does change things re: the exclusivity issue.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 14, 2012 05:50PM)
I will absolutely say, "Wow I was totally ripped off again, I am so stupid."
I don't mind admitting when I am wrong, especially since I am wrong so often,lol
I suppose I am just used to it.

The hope of spring eternal wells within my soul, or some crap like that.
James



[quote]
On 2012-03-14 07:49, Russell Davidson wrote:
Even if you're dissatisfied how many of you would be prepared to admit publicly you've been stitched up?
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 14, 2012 06:07PM)
I am getting confused. Have these RS effects been shown before, but not taught, or totally secret (in which case, have they been market-tested?
Message: Posted by: MuscleMagic (Mar 14, 2012 06:20PM)
The biggest magic trick of all is to get people to give you money based on nothing
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 14, 2012 06:51PM)
Yea, that's been my problem for decades. No luck so far.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 14, 2012 06:55PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 19:07, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote:
I am getting confused. Have these RS effects been shown before, but not taught, or totally secret (in which case, have they been market-tested?
[/quote]
I don't know..."never-before-seen" implies they haven't been shown to anyone before, let alone taught.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 14, 2012 07:16PM)
It could also imply "to the mass market"

I don't care. I want magic in my mailbox every month without thinking. There you go, I said it.
Oh, one condition, by those named in the ad.

Michael Weber is excited! He is pretty low key ok? If he is excited then I am jumping up and down over here.
My money is in, it's gone, start this train rolling, "ALL ABOARD" ROLLING ROLLING ROLLING!!!!!!!
sorry,
James


[quote]
On 2012-03-14 19:55, FrenchDrop wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 19:07, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote:
I am getting confused. Have these RS effects been shown before, but not taught, or totally secret (in which case, have they been market-tested?
[/quote]
I don't know..."never-before-seen" implies they haven't been shown to anyone before, let alone taught.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 14, 2012 07:50PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 07:49, Russell Davidson wrote:
This product, if you can call it that, is being discussed at length on UK forums too. Most of us are wary, there's the odd one or two that have parted with their cash but they're in the minority.

I find it laughable that anyone would buy in given the circumstances -

1) You don't know what you're getting.
2) You might not even be chosen to receive it. How this will be decided fairly is beyond me.
3) Do you really think it will be new & never seen before? Do me a favour. Nothing in magic is new.
4) You're not allowed to talk about it.
5) RS seem to be using emmotional blackmail to get you to sign up. Buy now or lose out forever.

I'm sure you'll receive items so I won't call it a scam, but the way it's been touted is exactly like a scam. Good luck to those that have paid up. I hope you don't feel ripped off when it starts. Not that any of us non-believers will ever hear about it due to the gagging order you've had to agree to. Even if you're dissatisfied how many of you would be prepared to admit publicly you've been stitched up?
[/quote]

Sounds like I need to move to the UK, at least they don't have their heads up their orifices. Get your flame retardant suit on man you are going to need it. I said the same thing, and anyone who supports this is either affiliated with RS or just not that business savvy. Or just not that bright and has money to burn. Probably a combination. But geady to get quoted and attacked by the sheeple. But at least I was able to get a lot discussion brewing, and as someone mentioned this thread would be pretty boring otherwise. Just the same people saying over and over how "excited they are" over a mystery product. I think I will just let this thread die, or let someone else take over entertaining the old, mature men. You are the chosen one now.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 14, 2012 07:51PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 20:16, Xiqual wrote:
It could also imply "to the mass market"

I don't care. I want magic in my mailbox every month without thinking. There you go, I said it.
Oh, one condition, by those named in the ad.

Michael Weber is excited! He is pretty low key ok? If he is excited then I am jumping up and down over here.
My money is in, it's gone, start this train rolling, "ALL ABOARD" ROLLING ROLLING ROLLING!!!!!!!
sorry,
James

[/quote]

Well, all I can say is that I hope it all works out great for those that have invested. Especially for James as I've already seen his wrath unleashed before when he feels as though he has been ripped off and I don't care to see it again! lol
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 14, 2012 07:54PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 20:53, gaffed wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 20:50, sirbrad wrote:

Sounds like I need to move to the UK, at least they don't have their heads up their orifices. Get your flame retardant suit on man you are going to need it. I said the same thing, and anyone who supports this is either affiliated with RS or just not that business savvy. Or just not that bright and has money to burn. Probably a combination. But geady to get quoted and attacked by the sheeple. But at least I was able to get a lot discussion brewing, and as someone mentioned this thread would be pretty boring otherwise. Just the same people saying over and over how "excited they are" over a mystery product. I think I will just let this thread die, or let someone else take over entertaining the old, mature men. You are the chosen one now.
[/quote]

[b]YAWN[/b]
[/quote]

Yeah that is over your head, go back to sleep.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 14, 2012 07:58PM)
I bet if they cancelled RS as part of their "changed terms", and with no refunds, all the supporters in this thread would still be ecstatic. "Thank you RS anyway for the possibility of this all! It was fun while it lasted! I will keep auto-billing intact to express my sincere appreciation!" :lol:
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 14, 2012 08:10PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 20:16, Xiqual wrote:
Michael Weber is excited! He is pretty low key ok? If he is excited then I am jumping up and down over here.
My money is in, it's gone, start this train rolling, "ALL ABOARD" ROLLING ROLLING ROLLING!!!!!!!
sorry,
James[/quote]
:lol:

Never apologize for enthusiasm!
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Mar 14, 2012 08:16PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 20:50, sirbrad wrote:
I think I will just let this thread die, or let someone else take over entertaining the old, mature men.
[/quote]

What is it with this obsession with "old" men? And why do you say it as if it were an insult?
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 14, 2012 08:28PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 21:16, MaxfieldsMagic wrote:


What is it with this obsession with "old" men? And why do you say it as if it were an insult?
[/quote]

Because he claims he has been a magician for 30 years, whereas in reality, he is a child and very self conscious about that fact. Why? ......I have NO idea.

[quote]
On 2012-03-14 21:13, FrenchDrop wrote:

Gaffed...the best thing to do with an unruly child is to ignore him until he settles down. I'm sure trying to...although he is making it hard for me to hear my Matlock rerun.
[/quote]

Yeah, I know Frenchy, but I’m getting old, cranky and losing my patience. Besides, there is nothing worth watching on T.V. anymore. ;)
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 14, 2012 08:52PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 18:50, Xiqual wrote:
I will absolutely say, "Wow I was totally ripped off again, I am so stupid."
I don't mind admitting when I am wrong, especially since I am wrong so often,lol
I suppose I am just used to it.

The hope of spring eternal wells within my soul, or some crap like that.
James



[quote]
On 2012-03-14 07:49, Russell Davidson wrote:
Even if you're dissatisfied how many of you would be prepared to admit publicly you've been stitched up?
[/quote]
[/quote]

So you make it a habit of getting ripped off? :lol:
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 14, 2012 08:57PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 21:13, FrenchDrop wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 21:09, gaffed wrote:
Ever hear of [i]mental[/i] mastur***ion KIDbrad? ;)
[/quote]
Gaffed...the best thing to do with an unruly child is to ignore him until he settles down.
[/quote]

Kinda like your mom still does today? That is why I am ignoring you from here on out, and your old date gaffed.
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 14, 2012 09:10PM)
That probably did it.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 14, 2012 09:44PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 22:10, Tom Jorgenson wrote:
That probably did it.
[/quote]

I hope so. Maybe the personal attacks will stop now and I won't have to defend myself, and we can keep the focus on the "product".
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Mar 14, 2012 10:33PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 21:57, sirbrad wrote:

Kinda like your mom still does today? That is why I am ignoring you from here on out, and your old date gaffed.
[/quote]

There's that "old" put-down again - and this from a guy who must be in his mid-40's at least, given that he's been performing magic for 30 years... :rolleyes:
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 14, 2012 10:40PM)
Sirbrad, PLEASE don't say you're going to go! We know what that means: you'll add at least 5 more threads of your disrespectful whining!

(Atom3339 reaches for his large cocktail of prune juice, Geritol and Viagra).
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 14, 2012 10:58PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 23:33, MaxfieldsMagic wrote:
There's that "old" put-down again - and this from a guy who must be in his mid-40's at least, given that he's been performing magic for 30 years... :rolleyes:
[/quote]
AND, according to his own post in this thread, he's been a "working professional" for 27 years! Don't forget that little nugget. :lol:

I was thinking he came up with that number by taking his actual age and adding 10 years...but given the sophistication of his "humor," I think I was giving him too much credit. Maybe he got 27 by taking his age and doubling it.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 14, 2012 11:17PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 23:40, Atom3339 wrote:
Sirbrad, PLEASE don't say you're going to go!
[/quote]
I guarantee he hasn't made his last post here.

I'd love to be proven wrong, though!
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 14, 2012 11:36PM)
Basically the guy is a total numpty. A self-diagnosing proctologist, (as I said on another thread), his mouth and ears are full of his own ****. It's strangely compelling, like watching a mangy rat fall into a tub of dayglo paint, then comedically fall over a series of painful obstacles, before finally gruesomely expiring in an extraordinarily violent and protracted scenario.


Hopefully.

No vested interest in RS, just heartily sick of the Café's answer to Holden Caulfield.

Blech.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 15, 2012 12:10AM)
Not ripped off. I learned Mandarin Chinese the hard way. Not going to school just picking it up. I do my whole show in Mandarin now.
When you learn another language you are constantly wrong. Actually, having kids and teaching things,then thinking maybe another way is better and feeling I was wrong, I simply tell them I was wrong. It's good to admit it. I'm sure you have no idea what I am talking about.

sirbrad, how many languages can you speak fluently? Be prepared to prove it.
Here is a small sample of me doing cups and balls on TV, in Mandarin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHmEH9p6D0Y

James


[quote]
On 2012-03-14 21:52, sirbrad wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 18:50, Xiqual wrote:
I will absolutely say, "Wow I was totally ripped off again, I am so stupid."
I don't mind admitting when I am wrong, especially since I am wrong so often,lol
I suppose I am just used to it.

The hope of spring eternal wells within my soul, or some crap like that.
James



[quote]
On 2012-03-14 07:49, Russell Davidson wrote:
Even if you're dissatisfied how many of you would be prepared to admit publicly you've been stitched up?
[/quote]
[/quote]

So you make it a habit of getting ripped off? :lol:
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Mar 15, 2012 12:13AM)
I am going to wait for the book, "Real Secrets, Volume 1." :)
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Mar 15, 2012 12:23AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-15 01:10, Xiqual wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHmEH9p6D0Y

James

[/quote]

Nice clip, James. Glad I didn't read the title before watching it. You really do seem comfortable with the Mandarin, too. Now I feel even more self conscious about my pathetic 8 year struggle with French.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 15, 2012 01:07AM)
On 2012-03-15 01:10, Xiqual wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHmEH9p6D0Y

________________________________________________________

WOW! James, I already liked you and your Café posts, but this was wonderful. IMPRESSIVE!!
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 15, 2012 01:36AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-15 01:10, Xiqual wrote:
Here is a small sample of me doing cups and balls on TV, in Mandarin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHmEH9p6D0Y [/quote]
Holy cow. I'm glad I saw Maxfield's post and made a point of not looking at the title before watching the clip. Very nice finish! :D

And all in rapid-fire Mandarin. You're a renaissance man. I thought I did catch a "Let's go!" in there -- or was that just my brain trying to turn unfamiliar words into something I recognize?
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 15, 2012 01:53AM)
[quote]
No vested interest in RS, just heartily sick of the Café's answer to Holden Caulfield.
[/quote]
That's probably giving him too much credit, too.

Check out the "posts in the last 30 days" link at the top of his profile. It doesn't take a minute to look at the first several pages, as there's very little variation. At the time of this post:

On the first page, titled "Showing Results 1-25," every single post is one he made in this thread.

On the second page, showing results 26-50, 22 of the 25 posts were made in this thread.

Third page: 16 of the 25 posts were made in this thread.

Fourth page: 22 of the 25 posts were made in this thread.

So. Of his past 100 posts, 85 were made in this one thread. The great majority of the remaining 15 posts were made on the "New Releases from Blue Crown" thread, and contain the same kind of bickering we were subjected to here -- right down to the accusations of dishonesty, the delusions of grandeur about exposing fraud, and the angry obsession with older men.

I'd feel sorry for the kid if he weren't so annoying.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 15, 2012 04:05AM)
Thanks for all the nice comments. FrenchDrop, you did hear a "Let's go" in there,lol.

MaxfieldsMagic, French is HARD!! My sister lives in Montreal and they just laugh at my pronunciation of French words.
Chinese has no grammar, just syntax, so it is pretty easy.

Zombie magic Clarke, thank you, if you knew how long we took care of those ducks before we let them go in the park,sheesh, such trouble.
I have heard that Gali Gali used to flush his baby chicks down the toilet after his shows. Ahhhh the good old days.

James
ps
I can't believe sirbrad is talking about people's Mothers. Just sad.
Message: Posted by: Sean Macfarlane (Mar 15, 2012 04:19AM)
Nice one James. I got to hand it to you, your Chinese is pretty darn good! Not that I would really know or anything as I live in Hong Kong. Thumbs up anyhow!!!
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 15, 2012 06:46AM)
Thanks Sean,
Cantonese is REALLY hard though. Mandarin has four tones but Cantonese has eight or nine. Plus Cantonese has tons of slang that is really hard to
get if you are not a native. Similar here is Taiwanese or Fuchien. I love it and I do use some jokes but really learning Fuchien is a daunting task. Hong Kong is so fun!
James

[quote]
On 2012-03-15 05:19, Sean Macfarlane wrote:
Nice one James. I got to hand it to you, your Chinese is pretty darn good! Not that I would really know or anything as I live in Hong Kong. Thumbs up anyhow!!!
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Mar 15, 2012 07:13AM)
When I was a child, mom would kiss my boo-boos and make the pain go away.

Maybe if someone kissed sirbrad, he would go away.

Anyone want to take one for the team?

Mike.

Edited in:

While I can't understand a word you're saying, James, I thoroughly enjoyed your cup and ball presentation. Good stuff, man, just good stuff!
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 15, 2012 10:19AM)
Great job, James. Love those cups, they look like they've been around the world a few times....some real character to them. It looked like a fun show to be on...the finale nailed them good! Out of curiosity, what's the shelf life on those ducks? How long can you use them for the cups before they[re too big? How long to train them, and how many do you end up owning before you let them back into the wild?
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 15, 2012 10:54AM)
James, Since you are a Renaissance man who has come through financial difficulties in the past, I can see you teaching Mandarin on the side.
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 15, 2012 11:03AM)
BTW, I like Cups & Balls MUCH better in Mandarin!

Just a thought, you could honor our beloved contributor sirbrad by naming one of those ducklings after him!

(Didn't someone say something about "shelf life")?
Message: Posted by: Jim Sparx (Mar 15, 2012 11:19AM)
I said I would not be back - so I lied. I did come back to acknowledge the cups and balls man and his ability to speak Chinese. I don't know if you are aware of this or not but the US govt is looking for translators, so if you are hard up for a job... go there.
I was in Korea for 16 months in the early 50s and was able to pick up some of the language and converse with the natives, but not to the extent of our cups and balls man.
Now I will go away again. Thread is too depressing and someone does not like old people, like me...Adios
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 15, 2012 11:33AM)
Spartacus, We missed you and your great sense of humour. Don't let one attention-hungry dufus ruin your fun. Some of us like old people! Some of us ARE old people!
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 15, 2012 11:37AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-15 12:19, spartacus wrote:
I said I would not be back - so I lied. I did come back to acknowledge the cups and balls man and his ability to speak Chinese. I don't know if you are aware of this or not but the US govt is looking for translators, so if you are hard up for a job... go there.
I was in Korea for 16 months in the early 50s and was able to pick up some of the language and converse with the natives, but not to the extent of our cups and balls man.
Now I will go away again. Thread is too depressing and someone does not like old people, like me...Adios
[/quote]

Maybe the Café should have a separate forum for old farts like us spartucus. No one under the age of 50 is allowed in. ;)

Other than that; great job James albeit I did here a few mistakes with your Mandarin. Yeah.....right!
I’m still working on my English after 65 years and suddenly becoming more and more self conscious of my Chicago accent! lol
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 15, 2012 11:45AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-15 12:37, gaffed wrote:
Maybe the Café should have a separate forum for old farts like us spartucus. No one under the age of 50 is allowed in. ;)[/quote]
Hey, I'm under 50, and apparently I'm an old man by a certain person's standards. I guess your definition of "old" depends on how young you are. When I was 12, I thought people in their 30s were old.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 15, 2012 12:57PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-14 19:07, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote:
I am getting confused. Have these RS effects been shown before, but not taught, or totally secret (in which case, have they been market-tested?
[/quote]

)

Sorry, just couldn't stand to have that open paren floating in c-space forever...

Jim

P.S. James- Very nice routine- and so well received! Nice...
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 15, 2012 01:17PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-15 12:45, FrenchDrop wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-15 12:37, gaffed wrote:
Maybe the Café should have a separate forum for old farts like us spartucus. No one under the age of 50 is allowed in. ;)[/quote]
Hey, I'm under 50, and apparently I'm an old man by a certain person's standards. I guess your definition of "old" depends on how young you are. When I was 12, I thought people in their 30s were old.
[/quote]

OK French....we'll give ya a Gold pass membership. ;)
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 15, 2012 01:48PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-15 14:17, gaffed wrote:
OK French....we'll give ya a Gold pass membership. ;)
[/quote]
I'm just glad my application was accepted. :lol:
Message: Posted by: Sammy J. (Mar 15, 2012 01:53PM)
James, you did such a great job with your "Cups and Ball". I can't even imagine performing this, in a foreign language, on TV.

Very nice, and great looking ducks!

I hope your "Real Secrets" experience is awesome.

Sammy
Message: Posted by: jm4345 (Mar 15, 2012 03:33PM)
Well,I'm in [if accepted at the end of the month !] - along with 333 others.

Still somewhat sceptical but.........
Message: Posted by: jm4345 (Mar 15, 2012 03:36PM)
I am only posting because I should like to reach my 50 posts to obtain access to the secret forums.
Message: Posted by: jm4345 (Mar 15, 2012 04:02PM)
My money would be on this venture being Mike Weber's brainchild - perhaps with backing from Tim Trono. Anyone else have thoughts on who is behind it all ?
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 15, 2012 04:26PM)
"Behind it"? They are both named on the subscription card my friend got at Blackpool. They were being handed out at a couple of different booths and after several lectures where the notes were sold outside the room.

How come names like Sankey, Ben, Harris and Ammar are so glaringly missing from any of these lists, posts or mentions? Are they really not part of it, or just trying to steer attention away from themselves?
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 15, 2012 05:54PM)
Thanks for all the kind comments. The ducks for that trick needed no training. They sit quietly in the dark, thinking it's night.
They quickly grow too big for the cups. Those ducklings were a week old, at two weeks they are twice that size.

The cups are Gazzo respins. I love them. The pouch was made by Gary Animal.

Anyway, thank you all for the kind comments.
James
BTW
I turned 50 in February. Never felt better.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Mar 15, 2012 05:58PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-15 16:36, jm4345 wrote:
I am only posting because I should like to reach my 50 posts to obtain access to the secret forums.
[/quote]
Good job jm4345, you're well on your way.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 15, 2012 05:59PM)
That is not true sirbrad. I even apologized for jokes I made, then just recently you attacked me again.
So actually "whatever" ok? Write whatever you want but no one cares.
James
[quote]
On 2012-03-15 15:47, sirbrad wrote:
Umm no, read the 23 pages. They started the personal attacks I only posted about the product, and they kept quoting me, attacking me, and counting my posts. They got "childish" so I came down to their level just for fun. I even said in my last post let's get back to the product as opposed to quoting me and keeping track of all my posts on the forum. But that didn't work they kept coming. Their lives must be so darn exciting that they are counting my posts and keeping track of every forum I post in. I won't "mention any names".
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 15, 2012 06:26PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-15 18:59, Xiqual wrote:
That is not true sirbrad. I even apologized for jokes I made, then just recently you attacked me again.
So actually "whatever" ok? Write whatever you want but no one cares. [/quote]
I'm not even reading his posts anymore. I saw yet another bizarre slur about "old, weak men" atop another verbose post, and I thought "Wait a minute -- weren't you going to try and ignore him?" And I stopped reading. I feel pretty good about that decision so far. :D

I can't help reading other people's replies to him, though -- and I find it hilarious that he's trying to paint himself as the innocent victim when all of his posts are still available for anyone to read.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 15, 2012 07:16PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-15 18:54, Xiqual wrote:
Thanks for all the kind comments. The ducks for that trick needed no training. They sit quietly in the dark, thinking it's night.
They quickly grow too big for the cups. Those ducklings were a week old, at two weeks they are twice that size.

The cups are Gazzo respins. I love them. The pouch was made by Gary Animal.

Anyway, thank you all for the kind comments.
James
BTW
I turned 50 in February. Never felt better.
[/quote]

James, I’d give my left....ah....right baby duck to be 50 again. By the way; "Happy Birthday!" I also had my birthday in February and I’m still in need of training, but be that as it may. I have an African Grey parrot by the name of Brandy, who is a real sweetheart. She has this uncanny way of knowing what time it is and get’s a tad “antsy” as it were at exactly 10:30pm as she wants me to place her in her cage to go to sleep. However, when I do so she starts banging on her bell as if she is having a freaking fit! But, once the lights go out....silence and all is well. Come to think of it, the same thing happens with me!

The pouch for the ducks was made by Gary Animal? Pretty apropos name to say the least! ;)

[quote]
On 2012-03-15 19:26, FrenchDrop wrote:


I can't help reading other people's replies to him, though -- and I find it hilarious that he's trying to paint himself as the innocent victim when all of his posts are still available for anyone to read.
[/quote]

Yes, poor little Brad will always consider himself as the victim and has done so from the beginning. Hell, as James pointed out; he even apologized to little Brad and yet he turned on him! Oh well, such people as Brad are part and parcel of any given forum site and always will be. One just has to separate the chaff from the wheat. Give him time, and he’ll eventually reach a semblance of maturity....hopefully. ;)
Message: Posted by: boboshempy (Mar 15, 2012 07:35PM)
James,

That is a phenomenal video for so many reasons! It had me dying laughing. You are inspirational!

Thanks for posting it!

Nick
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Mar 15, 2012 07:52PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-15 18:54, Xiqual wrote:
Those ducklings were a week old...
[/quote]

James, check your spelling and grammar. You said "week old," but clearly you meant "weak and old." Oh wait, you're not SirBrad. Never mind.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 15, 2012 08:21PM)
The weak old men club, [take 1] :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch3dUHcRqpM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dLHEYynXjg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YwMoeOdGzE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE8-ib8ytHk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-kwlnOpt-Y

(good that China has come up in this thread, as they hold fast to respecting their elders)
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 15, 2012 08:31PM)
The week old men club, [take 1] :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k5jcGwjVKw&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neFUiMnr1ds&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asRIWkcI4hc&feature=related

etc etc etc etc etc ad infinitum.
Message: Posted by: Sammy J. (Mar 15, 2012 11:13PM)
Tomsk192,

That was a wonderful demonstration in your two posts. You nailed the old school vs some of the new school thinking.

I still like to think that most go for the old school, but am not really sure!

We old geezers thank you for your post.

Sammy
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 15, 2012 11:59PM)
Tomsk192,
You nailed it Brother! lol. I'll take Vernon for $50 please.
James
Taiwan is not China, though. We live here in total democracy. Elected officials with no control from the mainland. Even though they want you to think differently :)
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 16, 2012 12:58AM)
Gaffed, I appreciate how you express your opinion.

I was going to respond to another barb, er, I mean brad but have been labeled weak and insecure. Yes, I agree with his opinions on questioning RS but do not care for his immature overly emotional attacks on other forum members. I find him utterly humourless at the moment.

And I have NEVER understood why someone who says they will go away doesn't.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 16, 2012 02:16AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-16 01:58, Atom3339 wrote:
And I have NEVER understood why someone who says they will go away doesn't.
[/quote]
Funny thing is, people who say they're going away seldom do -- and those who really intend to go away seldom say so; they just go. That's why I felt safe in guaranteeing our friend hadn't made his last post...I knew he wasn't gone.

I should take up mentalism. I'm sensing an annoyance in your life...does it start with a B? No? How about a sir? :D
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 16, 2012 06:52AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-16 01:58, Atom3339 wrote:

...And I have NEVER understood why someone who says they will go away doesn't.
[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUx8NEbsIa8
Message: Posted by: todsky (Mar 16, 2012 10:00AM)
Well, I am eagerly awaiting April and my first installment (I re-joined a couple of weeks ago). This trick-of-the-month idea is pure fun!
Message: Posted by: Doomo (Mar 16, 2012 11:32AM)
This truly is the Seinfeld thread! 24 pages (so far!) about nothing! Amazing!
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 16, 2012 01:10PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-16 12:32, Doomo wrote:
This truly is the Seinfeld thread! 24 pages (so far!) about nothing! Amazing!
[/quote]

Yes, it may indeed seem like that however, this is the “Latest and Greatest?” forum and has nothing to do with reviews. As the rules state on this particular forum:
_________________________________________________________

[b]FORUM RULES & GUIDELINES:[/b]

Curious about an upcoming product? This is the forum to post your thoughts. THIS FORUM IS NOT FOR REVIEWS. Reviews imply that you actually own and have used the trick, read the book or watched the DVD. Such posts should be made in the appropriate forum located in our [b]The Good, the Bad, and the Garbage[/b] category. [i]This[/i] forum is all about hype and speculation - nothing more, nothing less.
_________________________________________________________

Then again, most of the posts taken up on this thread and the reason it has turned into 24 pages thus far is because....ah, never mind. ;)
Message: Posted by: Doomo (Mar 16, 2012 02:41PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-16 14:10, gaffed wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-16 12:32, Doomo wrote:
This truly is the Seinfeld thread! 24 pages (so far!) about nothing! Amazing!
[/quote]

Yes, it may indeed seem like that however, this is the “Latest and Greatest?” forum and has nothing to do with reviews. As the rules state on this particular forum:
_________________________________________________________

[b]FORUM RULES & GUIDELINES:[/b]

Curious about an upcoming product? This is the forum to post your thoughts. THIS FORUM IS NOT FOR REVIEWS. Reviews imply that you actually own and have used the trick, read the book or watched the DVD. Such posts should be made in the appropriate forum located in our [b]The Good, the Bad, and the Garbage[/b] category. [i]This[/i] forum is all about hype and speculation - nothing more, nothing less.
_________________________________________________________

Then again, most of the posts taken up on this thread and the reason it has turned into 24 pages thus far is because....ah, never mind. ;)
[/quote]

The prosecution rests...
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 16, 2012 03:13PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-16 15:41, Doomo wrote:

The prosecution rests...
[/quote]

Sorry Doomo, if you had read through the [i]entire[/i] thread you would easily see that my reply was in no way directed towards you. Then again, I can't see why [i]anyone[/i] would want to read through all 24 pages on this! ;)
Message: Posted by: waltsal (Mar 16, 2012 03:38PM)
Actually, amazingly effective marketing by whoever they are and wherever they are to sell whatever it may be to whomever bites. This thread could one day be a classic case study in Psychology.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 16, 2012 03:40PM)
Certain posts by one of the more...prolific participants may be a classic case study in psychopathology. :D
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 16, 2012 07:15PM)
To tell you the truth. I am a bit disappointed when sirbrad does not post. He adds an edgy element to this thread and it is fun.
Yes, I like to be shocked. GaryLee also said it best when he mentioned if not for the controversy, this thread would be 2 pages.
James
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 16, 2012 07:31PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-16 16:40, FrenchDrop wrote:
Certain posts by one of the more...prolific participants may be a classic case study in psychopathology. :D
[/quote]

Or just being a young human on the Internet.

It was fascinating, I agree, but not magic related. Diagnoses should not be given in this place.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 16, 2012 08:04PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-16 20:15, Xiqual wrote:
To tell you the truth. I am a bit disappointed when sirbrad does not post. He adds an edgy element to this thread and it is fun.
Yes, I like to be shocked. GaryLee also said it best when he mentioned if not for the controversy, this thread would be 2 pages.
James
[/quote]

Controversy is one thing, posting the [i]same[/i] thing eighty times is another.
Thanks, but no thanks. I for one, can do without the never ending childish BS diatribe. ;)
Message: Posted by: writeall (Mar 16, 2012 09:15PM)
Even though I'm not getting the RS deal, I'm still kind of excited. It's the whole countdown thing and I'm kind of participating in James' enthusiasm second hand. Now I can hardly wait to find out and hope it's stunning. Vicarious thrills on the cheap.
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 16, 2012 09:36PM)
Fascinating in the way that the overall enthusiasm rises when the dark cloud personalities depart.
Message: Posted by: Sammy J. (Mar 16, 2012 10:05PM)
Maybe sirbrad is part of the Real Secrets team. Now that would be a real secret! Stir things up to keep the topic at the top!

Just kidding.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 16, 2012 10:34PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-16 20:31, tomsk192 wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-16 16:40, FrenchDrop wrote:
Certain posts by one of the more...prolific participants may be a classic case study in psychopathology. :D
[/quote]

Or just being a young human on the Internet. [/quote]
That's what I said! Ba-DUM-bump! :D
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 17, 2012 12:06AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-16 22:15, writeall wrote:
Even though I'm not getting the RS deal, I'm still kind of excited. It's the whole countdown thing and I'm kind of participating in James' enthusiasm second hand.[/quote]
Heh. Yeah, James has pretty much single-handedly made me eager to see how this turns out, what people get and what they think of it (to the extent that they can say, anyhow).
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 17, 2012 12:50AM)
Well, not single handedly. Lots of people are excited. I do think if it was something being hyped and I knew what it would be, I would end p disappointed. I always let my imagination get the best of me. It's not even the tricks fault sometimes.
I am really excited about this though!!
James
of course, I saw two butterflies flying in circles, in tandem, and I got really excited about that too, sooooo......


[quote]
On 2012-03-17 01:06, FrenchDrop wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-16 22:15, writeall wrote:
Even though I'm not getting the RS deal, I'm still kind of excited. It's the whole countdown thing and I'm kind of participating in James' enthusiasm second hand.[/quote]
Heh. Yeah, James has pretty much single-handedly made me eager to see how this turns out, what people get and what they think of it (to the extent that they can say, anyhow).
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 17, 2012 01:03AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-17 01:50, Xiqual wrote:
Well, not single handedly. Lots of people are excited.[/quote]
Yeah, but you're so sincere and enthusiastic and unfailingly nice about it! It's infectious.

Not enough to get me over my doubts and make me shell out -- but certainly enough to make me want to see how this turns out and hope it's good. :D
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 17, 2012 02:09AM)
REAL SECRET BEHIND realsecrets:

To anyone who wishes to know one name behind realsecrets! Send me $5.00 through paypal, and I will give you a name behind realsecrets. You will however, agee to not reveal the name to anyone else. By doing so, you may be called a liar, and face ridicule from your peers.

That's right. $5.00 is nothing to laugh at when it comes to the security of your hard earned cash. Wouldn't you want to know who you are supporting. Maybe it's Jay Sankey. He has a lot to hide from. Or, maybe it's someone a little more closely to the Café. The only way you'll find out is if you send me $5.00. That price will give you one name, and an opportunity to spend more of your money to find out more of the real secrets of realsecrets.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 17, 2012 02:25AM)
Golly.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Mar 17, 2012 02:35AM)
Dave who?

Uh-oh
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 17, 2012 04:04AM)
Thanks my Friend,
A very nice thing to say. Aww now I'm blushing.
James

[quote]
On 2012-03-17 02:03, FrenchDrop wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-17 01:50, Xiqual wrote:
Well, not single handedly. Lots of people are excited.[/quote]
Yeah, but you're so sincere and enthusiastic and unfailingly nice about it! It's infectious.

Not enough to get me over my doubts and make me shell out -- but certainly enough to make me want to see how this turns out and hope it's good. :D
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: EricDraven (Mar 17, 2012 05:02AM)
$5?
wanna make a quick buck?
go away!
I hope this is a joke!


[quote]
On 2012-03-17 03:09, GaryLee wrote:
REAL SECRET BEHIND realsecrets:

To anyone who wishes to know one name behind realsecrets! Send me $5.00 through paypal, and I will give you a name behind realsecrets. You will however, agee to not reveal the name to anyone else. By doing so, you may be called a liar, and face ridicule from your peers.

That's right. $5.00 is nothing to laugh at when it comes to the security of your hard earned cash. Wouldn't you want to know who you are supporting. Maybe it's Jay Sankey. He has a lot to hide from. Or, maybe it's someone a little more closely to the Café. The only way you'll find out is if you send me $5.00. That price will give you one name, and an opportunity to spend more of your money to find out more of the real secrets of realsecrets.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: slyhand (Mar 17, 2012 06:02AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-17 03:09, GaryLee wrote:
REAL SECRET BEHIND realsecrets:

To anyone who wishes to know one name behind realsecrets! Send me $5.00 through paypal, and I will give you a name behind realsecrets. You will however, agee to not reveal the name to anyone else. By doing so, you may be called a liar, and face ridicule from your peers.

That's right. $5.00 is nothing to laugh at when it comes to the security of your hard earned cash. Wouldn't you want to know who you are supporting. Maybe it's Jay Sankey. He has a lot to hide from. Or, maybe it's someone a little more closely to the Café. The only way you'll find out is if you send me $5.00. That price will give you one name, and an opportunity to spend more of your money to find out more of the real secrets of realsecrets.
[/quote]

Shouldn't this be in Tricks & Effects for Sale or Trade... ?
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 17, 2012 09:09AM)
Before I continue getting pm's asking for my paypal address, my post was meant as a joke. Sorry for any confusions. But on the positive side, I could of easily made $45 so far.
Message: Posted by: rowland (Mar 17, 2012 10:36AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-17 10:09, GaryLee wrote:
Before I continue getting pm's asking for my paypal address, my post was meant as a joke. Sorry for any confusions. But on the positive side, I could of easily made $45 so far.
[/quote]

This is unbelievable how gullible are some people. The most I would have paid is $3 ;)
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 17, 2012 10:43AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-17 10:09, GaryLee wrote:
Before I continue getting pm's asking for my paypal address, my post was meant as a joke. Sorry for any confusions. But on the positive side, [b]I could of easily made $45 so far[/b].
[/quote]

You've GOT to be kidding! Some people [i]actually[/i] believed you? :rolleyes:
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 17, 2012 10:58AM)
Frenchy, My new Mentalism Act:

(Holding hand to forehead)

"I predict..............................sirbrad will post again!"

Sorry. That's all I got.

T-t-t-too w-w-w-weak and ins-s-s-secure to g-g-g-o on.
Message: Posted by: Jim Sparx (Mar 17, 2012 11:03AM)
If anyone had asked, I would have told you for nothing, but now it is too late.

Stop the baiting and daring, play nice....
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 17, 2012 11:05AM)
OK

Who is Spartacus?
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 17, 2012 11:17AM)
I'm Spartacus and so is my wife.
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 17, 2012 11:29AM)
Was your card chariot colored?

Black chariots?
Message: Posted by: EricDraven (Mar 17, 2012 02:42PM)
This thread has turned to be the most hollow since a long time...


a lock on it would be not to bad...mods?
:)
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 17, 2012 02:56PM)
We're all just treading water till April. A couple more weeks of non-sequiturs shouldn't bother anyone after these seventy-eleven pages.


Yea April! Then we'll REALLY have something to not talk about!
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 17, 2012 04:03PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-17 15:42, EricDraven wrote:
This thread has turned to be the most hollow since a long time...


a lock on it would be not to bad...mods?
:)
[/quote]

Why ask to have the ball closed 'cause you don't want to dance? If you don't care for this thread, go somewhere else...
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 17, 2012 04:17PM)
We are not allowed to say what the real secrets are, but nothing says we can't guess before they arrive.

I say it is a flat set of cups and balls with flapping butterflies as final loads

Or rhyming patter for Two Card Monte

Or Professors' Nightmare with iPod headphones
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Mar 17, 2012 04:24PM)
Newguy

I can't believe you've just spoiled the first 3 months for everyone!
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 17, 2012 04:31PM)
They'll never know
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 17, 2012 04:36PM)
The first "Real Secret" might be Michael Weber's way of taking a little red silk, stuffing it into your fist and....it's gone. You can even show your hands empty because of a special gimmick.

I know that's reaching for the stars because it would look like real magic. Even if he came up with a way to do that, it would probably end up in joke shops and beginner magic sets.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Mar 17, 2012 05:00PM)
If I honestly believed that membership in this subscription program would make me a better magician, then I would re-apply. Hell, I would sign up for three years in advance and not worry about it. This may be a good product, but I have to disagree with the way they are handling it. I shall neither fight with them any more about my right to cancel a recurring payment from my own personal account, nor beg them to let me back in. It seems rather silly to me at this point. There is a whole lot of magic out there.

If it makes you all feel better, Richard Kaufman recommends buying into this program in his audio version of Genii Speaks in the April digital issue of Genii magazine.
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 17, 2012 06:52PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-17 17:36, Zombie Magic wrote:
The first "Real Secret" might be Michael Weber's way of taking a little red silk, stuffing it into your fist and....it's gone. You can even show your hands empty because of a special gimmick.
[/quote]

That would really be thumb thing
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 17, 2012 07:05PM)
:D
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 17, 2012 07:34PM)
Billmarq

Jump back in!

Leave the billing button alone

If you don't like it, you can cancel (if they don't cancel you first!)
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 17, 2012 08:52PM)
Billmarq,
I have found that the only thing that will make me a better magician is actually performing. I am buying into Real Secrets for the "WEEEEEEEEEE"
factor. There is a lot of magic out there, too much. I have personally found that 99% is useless tripe.

In my pro show, it's all classics. Linking rings 6 ring, 12 inch set, cups and balls, eggbag. That's what audiences want to see.
I know magicians hate those effects but the public eats them up.

For me, and me alone, I am in Real Secrets for the fun and absolute hedonism of it.
James
ps
Did I mention I am REALLY excited!!


[quote]
On 2012-03-17 18:00, billmarq wrote:
If I honestly believed that membership in this subscription program would make me a better magician, then I would re-apply. Hell, I would sign up for three years in advance and not worry about it. This may be a good product, but I have to disagree with the way they are handling it. I shall neither fight with them any more about my right to cancel a recurring payment from my own personal account, nor beg them to let me back in. It seems rather silly to me at this point. There is a whole lot of magic out there.

If it makes you all feel better, Richard Kaufman recommends buying into this program in his audio version of Genii Speaks in the April digital issue of Genii magazine.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 17, 2012 09:17PM)
James, they should quote you in their ads.

"WEEEEEEEEEE" -- Xiqual

;)
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 17, 2012 09:20PM)
LOL! But then I couldn't tell anybody. It would have to be "XXXXXXXX"-Xiqual
James

[quote]
On 2012-03-17 22:17, FrenchDrop wrote:
James, they should quote you in their ads.

"WEEEEEEEEEE" -- Xiqual

;)
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 17, 2012 09:24PM)
By the way, James, the thing about all those tried-and-true classics is this: They're boring to magicians AND laymen...IF the performer doesn't bring something special to them. If the performance is not inspired, even laymen will find them trite and disappointing. But if your linking rings, egg bag, etc. are anything like your cups & balls, as seen in the clip on this thread -- the sheer energy, and especially the finish -- I feel confident you're a performer who brings something special to the classics. THAT's what audiences want to see, whether they're magicians or laymen.

Sorry to embarrass you again, but it had to be said. :P
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Mar 17, 2012 10:00PM)
Thinking of all the PDFs I bought and are neither original or worth the paper I printed them on, and the one trick DVDs that were crap, I'll
gamble on RS.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Mar 17, 2012 10:41PM)
A few weeks ago, even before RS appeared on the scene, I started work on a video that satirizes the way "magic" is marketed. I put it aside because I was not happy with the technical aspects of the video and audio (I am a one-man studio), but given my negative experience with RS, I am reviving my efforts to make a decent video out of the footage.

It is titled [b]The Magic Shopping Network[/b] and uses the HSN and QVC as models for the parody. I wish I had been familiar with the RS business model prior to writing and taping the piece.

Hopefully I can get 'er done and amuse a few of you. I don't think the general public would "get it."
Message: Posted by: insight (Mar 18, 2012 12:30AM)
Out of curiosity, to what extent does price impact level of secrecy that a purchaser of Real Secrets is willing to accept? For example, if the price was $5,000 for an annual subscription, would you as a purchaser require greater transparency?

Regards,
Mike
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 18, 2012 12:45AM)
Mike, to me the opposite question is more important

If someone will not protect a ten cent secret, how can he be trusted to keep a thousand dollar secret?
Message: Posted by: Failed Magician (Mar 18, 2012 02:00AM)
Billmarq, what bad experience did you get? It seems this thread will be an endless one.
Message: Posted by: insight (Mar 18, 2012 02:43AM)
Real Secrets...few more weeks, and the excitement begins!!!

Regards,
Mike
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Mar 18, 2012 04:47AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-18 03:00, Failed Magician wrote:
Billmarq, what bad experience did you get? It seems this thread will be an endless one.
[/quote]

I don't want to rehash my complaint which exists earlier in this thread but if we try hard enough we can surpass the Industrial Revelations thread in number of posts and views. If you noticed, at one point this thread disappeared from the first page of Latest and Greatest only to be revived by the RS people with one of their infrequent posts. What does that tell you? It is obvious to me that they will be happy with four or five hundred subscribers and do not care about a handful of unhappy people such as me.

If nothing else, at least we have an interesting diversion for the next few weeks. Meanwhile, I have a mountain of books and DVDs to forge through.

:magicrabbit:
Message: Posted by: Doomo (Mar 18, 2012 07:57AM)
A thread devoted to something the purchasers cannot talk about... Contractually... A very long thread. With vitriolic arguments about something no one has actually seen... Or can talk about if and when they do see it... I just described this to my wife... She says you guys are all BLANKED in the head... I must admit that there is truth in that statement...
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 18, 2012 08:52AM)
Nothing livens up a thread like someone popping in to say all the participants are stupid. :rolleyes:
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Mar 18, 2012 09:49AM)
Doomo is just jealous because more people are talking about Real Secrets than his own products.
Message: Posted by: Doomo (Mar 18, 2012 11:25AM)
Dude... I have NEVER called ANYONE stupid in this thread... You HAVE to admit that this is a WAY strange thread!
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 18, 2012 11:25AM)
The operative word for the entire RS argument is: GAMBLE.

With the lack of information we have been provided and dribs and drabs of additional occasional random information given by the RS Team and posters supposably "in the know" it still remains a huge gamble on the subscribers part.

Your choice, of course, whether you want to play the game or not. Do you like the odds?

Now some will say MOST magic purchases are a gamble. More like a semi-gamble. Most magic purchases 1) Describe the effect, and 2) Tell you who the magician is who's selling it. THEN you get the REAL secret(s) after your purchase. At least you have some specific knowledge to make an informed decision.

It's been beat to death that RS is not selling their magic this way. The House always wins in the long run.

So it boils down to your gambling threshold (your risk tolerance) and what you're willing to lose (if this is all a "pie in the sky" enticement).

I'm grateful someone mentioned no Coin Magic is included. That instantly takes me out of the game.
Message: Posted by: Doomo (Mar 18, 2012 11:30AM)
I have NOT criticized the Real Secrets deal... I don't care one way or the other... Like I said... The part I find interesting... Is 25 pages (at this point) on a subject no one really knows ANYTHING about... And one they DO KNOW, that they are FORBIDDEN to discuss!

Am I the only one who finds this all a bit odd?
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Mar 18, 2012 11:48AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-18 12:25, Doomo wrote:
Dude... I have NEVER called ANYONE stupid in this thread... You HAVE to admit that this is a WAY strange thread!
[/quote]
Fair point, I agree. Most bizarre thread in along time.
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 18, 2012 11:54AM)
Doomo, What? We DO know someone is offering an annual subscription to some unknown magic products to be delivered on a monthly basis for a specific price. And you have to play by their rules! We do know THESE THINGS, it's now public knowledge.

So there is much fascination and speculation. The reason this thread lives is because NONE of us know if RS will be a success or failure. Either way will tell us whether their marketing approach worked or not.

If it succeeds, we'll see more of this approach in the future.

If it fails, we'll look back on it and the "I told you so's" will have a hay day!
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Mar 18, 2012 12:14PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-18 05:47, billmarq wrote:

...
It is obvious to me that they will be happy with four or five hundred subscribers and do not care about a handful of unhappy people such as me.
...

[/quote]

You can't please everyone so you gotta please yourself.
Ricky Nelson

You just have to trust your instincts and hope that if someone doesn't like your idea, you can prove them wrong in the final process. In the end, you can please some of the people some of the time, but that's about all you can do.
Bryan Singer

People always say that you can't please everybody. I think that's a cop-out. Why not attempt it? 'Cause think of all the people you will please if you try.
Kanye West

I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody.
Bill Cosby
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 18, 2012 12:46PM)
For some reason, the following quote comes to me:

The memories of my family outings are still a source of strength to me. I remember we'd all pile into the car - I forget what kind it was - and drive and drive. I'm not sure where we'd go, but I think there were some trees there. The smell of something was strong in the air as we played whatever sport we played. I remember a bigger, older guy we called "Dad." We'd eat some stuff, or not, and then I think we went home. I guess some things never leave you.

- Jack Handey
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 18, 2012 01:11PM)
Quote time?

"Live each day as if it were your last. And some day you'll be right!"

(from an old Mad Magazine)
Message: Posted by: Failed Magician (Mar 18, 2012 01:34PM)
I find this project a little odd but also curious as some of the big names, even Steve Brooks himself recommends this to us. I believe and always will that he is a very cautious person and loves magic than nothing else. So I'm excitedly waiting for this. Hopefully you guys can share a little review about this project.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 18, 2012 05:40PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-18 12:25, Doomo wrote:
Dude... I have NEVER called ANYONE stupid in this thread... [/quote]
So what does "BLANKED in the head" mean?
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 18, 2012 05:59PM)
BLANKED in the head would be slang for someone who wasn't thinking, not someone who is stupid. :)

Carry on!
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 18, 2012 06:01PM)
Oh, well. That's much better, then.
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 18, 2012 06:33PM)
I am guessing she actually said f****d in the head. Right Doomo?

Tell the truth
Message: Posted by: jtmorris (Mar 18, 2012 06:40PM)
If magicians want to share their back room material and maintain the level of secrecy, they would only share it with someone who agreed to not share it with others (aside from a performance).

Keeping in mind we dislike trailers that show nothing, how would you market a secret that: 1) you don't want to show in a demo or description 2) you don't want all over youtube and exposure sites and 3) has value for those working in the field 4) you don't want a bunch of ripoffs on the market?

I'm curious to hear other strategies that might be effective. This will ultimately be promoted with word of mouth. If it's good it will do well.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 18, 2012 06:50PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-18 19:40, jtmorris wrote:

... If it's good it will do well.
[/quote]

Exactly!
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 18, 2012 07:16PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-18 19:33, newguy wrote:
I am guessing she actually said f****d in the head. Right Doomo?

Tell the truth
[/quote]
Of course. Which, to me, means stupid or crazy. And Doomo says there's truth in that.... :rolleyes:
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 18, 2012 07:31PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-18 19:40, jtmorris wrote:
If magicians want to share their back room material and maintain the level of secrecy, they would only share it with someone who agreed to not share it with others (aside from a performance).

Keeping in mind we dislike trailers that show nothing, how would you market a secret that: 1) you don't want to show in a demo or description 2) you don't want all over youtube and exposure sites and 3) has value for those working in the field 4) you don't want a bunch of ripoffs on the market?

I'm curious to hear other strategies that might be effective. This will ultimately be promoted with word of mouth. If it's good it will do well.
[/quote]

You can't market a secret. Once it's marketed, it's no longer a secret. The only way to protect a secet, and keep it a secret is to not tell anyone. You can try to file for trade secret protection, but once you sell it, or reveal it to anyone you are no longer under any trade secret protection.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 18, 2012 08:16PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-18 19:33, newguy wrote:
I am guessing she actually said f****d in the head. Right Doomo?

Tell the truth
[/quote]

Does that [i]really[/i] have to be explained to you, and if so.....why? I'm quite confident we all got the point.
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 18, 2012 08:19PM)
One is far more demeaning.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 18, 2012 08:24PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-18 21:19, newguy wrote:
One is far more demeaning.
[/quote]

Jeez.....whatever. :rolleyes:
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 18, 2012 08:27PM)
Gaffed,

Blank you

(see?)
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 18, 2012 08:33PM)
I think Real Secrets is more of a club. Some will be suspicious and want to see all the goods before they pay. Others will join for the mystery.
Every person that has joined knows more than is being written here.

GaryLee is right. No laws protect magic secrets. Patents are really bad ideas for magic because they become public knowledge.

I personally joined for the fun of getting a surprise magic box, from magicians I respect, every month.

All in all, the REAL secret in magic is....YOU. Not the material. If you feel youtube hurts your show, maybe you should read Dale Carnegie.

Audiences actually don't care about tricks, they care about you, the performer, the person. If you share your personality with the audience, they will like you and watch with care.

My personal goal in magic is to be interesting enough on stage to carry the show without magic. I'm not there...YET! I am working on it though.
Maybe I'll never get there. It will be a fun journey though.
James


[quote]
On 2012-03-18 20:31, GaryLee wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-18 19:40, jtmorris wrote:
If magicians want to share their back room material and maintain the level of secrecy, they would only share it with someone who agreed to not share it with others (aside from a performance).

Keeping in mind we dislike trailers that show nothing, how would you market a secret that: 1) you don't want to show in a demo or description 2) you don't want all over youtube and exposure sites and 3) has value for those working in the field 4) you don't want a bunch of ripoffs on the market?

I'm curious to hear other strategies that might be effective. This will ultimately be promoted with word of mouth. If it's good it will do well.
[/quote]

You can't market a secret. Once it's marketed, it's no longer a secret. The only way to protect a secet, and keep it a secret is to not tell anyone. You can try to file for trade secret protection, but once you sell it, or reveal it to anyone you are no longer under any trade secret protection.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 18, 2012 08:38PM)
I agree that this just means "not thinking" Like when we see a catalog ad for magic and we just push the button or make that decision to buy at all cost.

Doomo's products are fantastic! I know he is all about honest demos and upfront ad copy.

I am probably BLANKED about half the day.
James



[quote]
On 2012-03-18 08:57, Doomo wrote:
A thread devoted to something the purchasers cannot talk about... Contractually... A very long thread. With vitriolic arguments about something no one has actually seen... Or can talk about if and when they do see it... I just described this to my wife... She says you guys are all BLANKED in the head... I must admit that there is truth in that statement...
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 18, 2012 08:40PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-18 21:27, newguy wrote:
Gaffed,

Blank you

(see?)
[/quote]

WOW!....really? Well, that kind of tells everyone where this thread is going does it not? lol
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 18, 2012 08:45PM)
Gaffed

No


NOT Really

Just making a point

Back to love and flowers!
Message: Posted by: Failed Magician (Mar 18, 2012 09:02PM)
Oh wow, this seems would be an never ending thing. It will be a club but there is no way you can prevent a secret leaking to the public. Sooner or later someone will spill the beans.
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 18, 2012 09:19PM)
I bet it works better than we are guessing it will.

We haven't seen the letters of admission and denial yet.

This is a lot like rushing a fraternity.
Message: Posted by: toberman (Mar 18, 2012 10:20PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-18 21:33, Xiqual wrote:

I personally joined for the fun of getting a surprise magic box, from magicians I respect, every month.

[quote]


Me too! It's that simple.

Terry
Message: Posted by: newguy (Mar 18, 2012 10:51PM)
Oh no!

Everyone being positive, logical and optimistic!

The Mayans are right!!!!
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Mar 18, 2012 11:28PM)
If the Mayans are right, then be sure to cancel your recurring payment in time to use the refund for a big party on December 20. (but no sooner or you will be blackballed)
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 18, 2012 11:31PM)
The best thing about an end-of-the-world party is the end-of-the-world cake.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Mar 19, 2012 12:00AM)
I finally put together a video from the footage I shot. In it, I satirize how magic is marketed to us hobbyist and professional magicians. THe video is okay, but suffers from a noticeable audio hum on one of my microphones. Oh well. I can probably eliminate the hum, but that means more time on the workstation. I also used the wrong f-stop so the bright areas are a little bit washed out, but I am not sure the end result is worth retaping the whole thing. It's all for fun, so enjoy.

If you have ten minutes to spare, give it a look and let me know what you think of the idea. It is not directly related to RS, but it deals with marketing magic products so it bears some relationship.

The Magic Shopping Network is at: http://youtu.be/8XIjHzsaVcU
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 19, 2012 06:07AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-19 01:00, billmarq wrote:
I finally put together a video from the footage I shot. In it, I satirize how magic is marketed to us hobbyist and professional magicians. THe video is okay, but suffers from a noticeable audio hum on one of my microphones. Oh well. I can probably eliminate the hum, but that means more time on the workstation. I also used the wrong f-stop so the bright areas are a little bit washed out, but I am not sure the end result is worth retaping the whole thing. It's all for fun, so enjoy.

If you have ten minutes to spare, give it a look and let me know what you think of the idea. It is not directly related to RS, but it deals with marketing magic products so it bears some relationship.

The Magic Shopping Network is at: http://youtu.be/8XIjHzsaVcU
[/quote]

Kind of sad that I wanted to order the Blammo Wonder Deck. Sigh.

Bill, I think you did an outstanding job!

Clarke
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Mar 19, 2012 06:47AM)
When I called, they were sold out. Dammit.

Excellent work, Bill - thank you for sharing that! :)

Mike.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 19, 2012 07:53AM)
Hilarious Bill,
BUT, I want it! Give me my Blammo deck! Oh, I also want that incredibly classy red silk vest. Looks like Fabrice made that. Does it have a topit? Great job,
James


[quote]
On 2012-03-19 01:00, billmarq wrote:
I finally put together a video from the footage I shot. In it, I satirize how magic is marketed to us hobbyist and professional magicians. THe video is okay, but suffers from a noticeable audio hum on one of my microphones. Oh well. I can probably eliminate the hum, but that means more time on the workstation. I also used the wrong f-stop so the bright areas are a little bit washed out, but I am not sure the end result is worth retaping the whole thing. It's all for fun, so enjoy.

If you have ten minutes to spare, give it a look and let me know what you think of the idea. It is not directly related to RS, but it deals with marketing magic products so it bears some relationship.

The Magic Shopping Network is at: http://youtu.be/8XIjHzsaVcU
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Doomo (Mar 19, 2012 08:29AM)
Hi James! Thanks for the nice words. Still having the big time in China I see. And to Bill. Nice work on the Magic Shopping Network.

Ok... Someone make something out of that!
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 19, 2012 08:38AM)
Doomo, PLEASE hire Bill to do all your demos!
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 19, 2012 11:30AM)
I want to hire Bill AND Bob!

LMAO!

Gonna scour the internet for a Blammo Wonder Deck now! Hear it's a collector's item!

Bill, Will you sign the box if I buy one and send it to you with return postage?

"And 52 of something else." Priceless.
Message: Posted by: sevenup (Mar 19, 2012 11:58AM)
The blamo wonder deck can be shown on both sides. No angle problems. LMAO
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 19, 2012 12:18PM)
I was one of the lucky purchasers of the Blammo deck & book combo.

Let me tell you, this an INGENIOUS innovation by one of the most creative magical minds in the solar system!

The ambitious card routine is worth the purchase price alone; make a signature disappear from the card 52 times, before knocking their socks off with the ultimate ambitious routine!

The ACAAN surpasses even that of David Berglas. (Some equivoque is required for the choice of card.)

Overall I give this 11/10.

Great job, Bill & Bob!!
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 19, 2012 01:34PM)
Only two more weeks before our first "Real Secret" ships. Time does fly when you're having fun.

I have such a good feeling about this project!
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 19, 2012 01:46PM)
Just found out a new version of the Blammo Miracle Deck is RS' first shipment! It has a different design on the back of the cards.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 19, 2012 02:10PM)
Ooh, if it's in Mandolin backs then I'll subscribe for ten years!
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Mar 19, 2012 02:12PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-19 01:00, billmarq wrote:
I finally put together a video from the footage I shot. In it, I satirize how magic is marketed to us hobbyist and professional magicians. THe video is okay, but suffers from a noticeable audio hum on one of my microphones. Oh well. I can probably eliminate the hum, but that means more time on the workstation. I also used the wrong f-stop so the bright areas are a little bit washed out, but I am not sure the end result is worth retaping the whole thing. It's all for fun, so enjoy.

If you have ten minutes to spare, give it a look and let me know what you think of the idea. It is not directly related to RS, but it deals with marketing magic products so it bears some relationship.

The Magic Shopping Network is at: http://youtu.be/8XIjHzsaVcU
[/quote]

Nice one Bill and I also award the Ray Chelt Gold Star for mentioning Deadwood, possibly the best TV programme ever and **** and ***** any ********* that say different.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Mar 19, 2012 03:06PM)
Sorry, if that was an example of how magic is being sold, I suspect there would be a whole lot LESS being sold. I got bored around the 2 minute mark and quit watching. Hey, but some liked it so it's probably just me.

Mike
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Mar 19, 2012 06:10PM)
The Real Secrets approach to marketing their wares is for me another another step in the wrong direction that I see being taken by members of this industry. I probably don't need to go into the specifics of the RS deal as we have had more than enough discussion on that. Even before RS came along I was put off by the way so many magicians, some of them very young, feel it necessary to market every little nuance to an effect that enters their imaginations. It is common for us to pay $30.00 or more for a single trick DVD which may only contain a variation on some method of producing an old effect. Previously on the Café, I made one or two people angry when I criticized a recent product, pointing out that I already own the prop necesary for that trick and that all the "entrepreneur" did was to repackage the gimmick and offer instructions on how to use it differently from its original use.

As I stated earlier, it is obvious to me that RS is not interested in mass marketing their scheme, but are happy with a smaller group of subscribers they call a club. Still, we are talking about maybe $100,000.00 in commerce in the first year, more or less.

Had I been aware of their "pig in a poke" approach, enhanced by the sense of exclusivity, but enforced by required compliance with unstated rules, I definitely would have included a jab at them in my video. Ultimately, I suppose that subscribing to their service is no worse than buying something resembling the Blammo Wonder Deck (a real item sold under an entirely different name that I bought from a catalogue some fifty years ago) only to discover that the magic was not real, or at least not repeatable or examinable.

@Rockwell - your criticism is valid. If I were to redo this video skit in a more professional way, I would introduce and demonstrate the product sooner and then perhaps discuss its origin.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to watch and comment. I really appreciate it. Now, back to our regular program...
Message: Posted by: toberman (Mar 19, 2012 06:28PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-19 14:34, Zombie Magic wrote:
Only two more weeks before our first "Real Secret" ships. Time does fly when you're having fun.

I have such a good feeling about this project!
[/quote]

It's very exciting. I have a GREAT feeling about this project.

For me it's similar to getting Genii and Magic magazines every month. I have no idea what articles, tricks, reviews, etc they will contain and that's why it's fun when they arrive every month.

Terry
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 19, 2012 06:28PM)
Several of us were recently discussing and asking each other about how creator's are paying their taxes on the effects, ebooks, etc they market. I won't make assumptions, but we did talk to a few young creator's who admitted that they don't claim their earnings from selling ebooks, or routines.

I was wondering how many other creator's don't claim their earnings they make from their ebooks, and routines they market. Is it something we should be doing? Or, is it okay to not pay taxes on those earnings?
Message: Posted by: toberman (Mar 19, 2012 06:30PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-19 19:28, GaryLee wrote:
Several of us were recently discussing and asking each other about how creator's are paying their taxes on the effects, ebooks, etc they market. I won't make assumptions, but we did talk to a few young creator's who admitted that they don't claim their earnings from selling ebooks, or routines.

I was wondering how many other creator's don't claim their earnings they make from their ebooks, and routines they market. Is it something we should be doing? Or, is it okay to not pay taxes on those earnings?
[/quote]

What does that have to do with the Real Secrets thread?
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 19, 2012 06:30PM)
Nothing! What's your point?

If you haven't noticed, there is nothing to discuss about real secrets...it's a secret! :)
Message: Posted by: bg (Mar 19, 2012 06:46PM)
I still am amazed. I own a small contracting business and as you can imagine in the current economy making a living is hard. I have to really sell myself and my work more than I ever have in nearly 25 yrs in business. It seams I'm doing exactly the opposite as the real secrets team. I wonder how much money can be had by selling unknown products to a small but ( loyal?) customer base who you could be anonymous with and then constantly reopen every so often under a diff name with a new launch? Seems way easier than the way I'm doing it.
I can't think of a single instance where I'd spend money without knowing for sure what I'm getting and who from. Maybe if I were wealthy? But for me my budget doesn't allow for a lottery type purchase
Btw. The quality of the product makes no difference if you don't know before you spend....a lottery ticket can pay off too but I'm not into that either
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Mar 19, 2012 08:02PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-19 19:46, bg wrote:
I still am amazed. I own a small contracting business and as you can imagine in the current economy making a living is hard. I have to really sell myself and my work more than I ever have in nearly 25 yrs in business. It seams I'm doing exactly the opposite as the real secrets team. I wonder how much money can be had by selling unknown products to a small but ( loyal?) customer base who you could be anonymous with and then constantly reopen every so often under a diff name with a new launch? Seems way easier than the way I'm doing it.
I can't think of a single instance where I'd spend money without knowing for sure what I'm getting and who from. Maybe if I were wealthy? But for me my budget doesn't allow for a lottery type purchase
Btw. The quality of the product makes no difference if you don't know before you spend....a lottery ticket can pay off too but I'm not into that either
[/quote]

It's $12 a month.

I don't think you have to be "wealthy" to swing that.

Where I live this is less than the cost of a movie ticket.

If you think this is some kind of scam to make someone rich, then you haven't bothered to multiply $12 by a few hundred people. Nobody is going to get rich from this.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 19, 2012 08:45PM)
Have you ever received an anonymous email saying send me $12 and I will send you a ticket to watch a movie. They don't tell you what kind of movie it is, nor will you know who is in it, or what it's about.

Some would be curious, and make the purchase, no doubt, but I think it's safe to say that most of us wouldn't.

I don't believe bg says anything about it being a scam, but you can't expect people to just lay down money with such a risk. Those who have may indeed reap the rewards, but it's not about $12 a month, it's the principal of not encouraging this kind of marketing model. That doesn't mean RC is a scam, it means in any other circumstance most of us would consider it a scam.
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Mar 19, 2012 09:12PM)
Well, I don't want to get in the way of you all making your stand on principal, but this marketing model is ancient.

Here you go: http://www.amazingclubs.com/

Now, I can sign up for the "magic trick of the month" club (Real Secrets) or I can sign up for the Salsa-of-the-month club over there at Amazing Clubs. I don't know what I'm going to get with either of them.

The part that you're bothered by. The "you don't know what you're going to get" part. Is the part that other people are excited by. You could just go to grocery store and buy your favorite salsa once a month too. But being exposed to different things is kind of the idea behind these sorts of clubs.

Are you of the impression that traditional marketing models have prevented crap from being released in the magic world? That's a sweet notion, but unfortunately it's bull----. I actually think this model puts a stronger burden on Real Secrets to release good stuff. They can't rely on pre-release hype of a specific effect, or a hastily put together demo to bring them more customers. They need to have satisfied customers giving it great word of mouth if they want to exist in the long run. And the only way to get that is by over-delivering.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 19, 2012 09:36PM)
AmazingClubs is NOT a secret club. They are open about who they are, and they have a gaurantee. Huge difference between these two business models. Not even comparable, sorry.

Plus, you have no idea what it is that bothers me. ;)

RS business model puts no pressure on them whatsoever. The pressure is on the members who have nothing but faith to rely on. If they get screwed they have absolutely no recourse to go after RS. (Not saying RS would do that, I have no idea.)No one knows who they are. So if they were to just up and quit the project, no one will ever know who they were or how to track them down.
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 19, 2012 09:36PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-19 19:28, GaryLee wrote:
Several of us were recently discussing and asking each other about how creator's are paying their taxes on the effects, ebooks, etc they market. I won't make assumptions, but we did talk to a few young creator's who admitted that they don't claim their earnings from selling ebooks, or routines.

I was wondering how many other creator's don't claim their earnings they make from their ebooks, and routines they market. Is it something we should be doing? Or, is it okay to not pay taxes on those earnings? [/quote]

This is really off-topic, no matter your excuse. Why are you possibly bringing this up, and twice at that? Drag it over to the Ethics forum where you can have at it with other like minded debaters. This is for RS, and whether or not any of them pay their taxes is none of your or our business.

It's getting to be innuendo'd slurs.

And, I'd like to say, so far I like this business model just fine.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 19, 2012 09:40PM)
Who are you again? Did I miss the meeting where everyone voted you the authority around here. Get over it and have some fun.

Where do I bring it up twice? I brought it up once and....ah forget it. :)
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 19, 2012 10:01PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-19 22:40, GaryLee wrote:
Get over it and have some fun.
[/quote]
Gary, that's MY point: Get over it....the 'business model' you object to. Have some fun.
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Mar 19, 2012 10:15PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-19 22:36, GaryLee wrote:
AmazingClubs is NOT a secret club. They are open about who they are, and they have a gaurantee. Huge difference between these two business models. Not even comparable, sorry.

Plus, you have no idea what it is that bothers me. ;)

RS business model puts no pressure on them whatsoever. The pressure is on the members who have nothing but faith to rely on. If they get screwed they have absolutely no recourse to go after RS. (Not saying RS would do that, I have no idea.)No one knows who they are. So if they were to just up and quit the project, no one will ever know who they were or how to track them down.
[/quote]

Sorry, Gary. If you think there are "huge differences" between a magic-trick of the month club and a salsa (or anything else) of-the-month club, you're mistaken. The two business models are identical. They even have identical guarantees.

If they "up and quit the project" I don't need to know who they are. They aren't collecting cash and checks from people. If I have an issue with them I will get my money refunded by paypal.

Do you think Gaetan Bloom, Cyril, Michael Weber, Robert Neale, Max Maven and John Kennedy would allow their names to be used to sell something they thought wasn't legit?

Here's the thing: this product isn't for you. That's fine! To you this is "such a risk." To others it's not. Maybe you don't need to invest your time writing about something that's not for you?
Message: Posted by: writeall (Mar 19, 2012 10:31PM)
I've already gotten at least $12 worth of entertainment from this discussion.

Thank you Real Secrets!
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 19, 2012 10:37PM)
They are far from being identical. Wow, I'm surprised I have to say that. I know who is running AmazingClubs. They are not trying to hide their identities. You can easily look them up and find out they are a registered business under the name Amazingclubs. They also have a 1-800 number to contact them directly. Are you kidding me. (lol) The only thing similiar is that they send you something every month, the business models are completely different.

No you can't get a refund from paypal after 45 days after the date of payment. Those who prepaid when it first was advertised cannot use paypal to file for a refund if the 45 days has elapsed. I don't even have a paypal account and I at least know that. If you were to ask Paypal for a refund they would have to take the refund from RS paypal account. If they have no money in their paypal account, they can't take it from their bank account because they are unverified, which means they did not register their bank with paypal. You should check your facts before coming on here and thinking you know what you are talking about.

The gaurantees are not identical either. Some peoples kids! (lol)

Oh, and I am having fun, my post about taxes was a result of where my thoughts went after reading the posts about Blammo, so the guy who accussed me of something is wrong, sorry no prize for him either. ;)
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Mar 19, 2012 10:51PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-19 23:37, GaryLee wrote:
The only thing similiar is that they send you something every month, the business models are completely different.
[/quote]

That IS the business model.


[quote]
On 2012-03-19 23:37, GaryLee wrote:
The gaurantees are not identical either. Some peoples kids! (lol)

[/quote]

Let's see,

Amazing clubs guarantee: "You may cancel your membership at any time and for any reason. No fine print and no excuses. If you purchased a prepaid membership, you'll receive a prompt refund for any unshipped merchandise."

Real Secrets guarantee: " Remember that any member may cancel his membership at any time and receive a timely pro-rata refund of their application or membership fees."

Yup, those are identical.

[quote]
On 2012-03-19 23:37, GaryLee wrote:
If they have no money in their paypal account, they can't take it from their bank account because they are unverified, which means they did not register their bank with paypal. You should check your facts before coming on here and thinking you know what you are talking about.
[/quote]

Wrong again, ding-dong. They're a verified member on paypal. Hey... but nice try!
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 19, 2012 10:59PM)
[img]http://www.bonsaichat.net/gallery/data/506/gone_fishin.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 19, 2012 11:03PM)
Only recently did they become verified. They were not always. Everything else I say I stand by. You still don't know what you are talking about. Argue all you want, but I have better things than get into a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed.

I don't care about RS business model. I got over it pages ago. Even Sirbrad has gotten over it. maybe you should think about getting over it. Your defending something you know nothing about. Until April first, it's hush hush now.

Just because some of us agree that the business model is not attractive, doesn't mean we think it's a scam. How are we to know that. Honesty says we don't know either way. So those of you who are so adament about attacking those who don't like the busines model need to get over themselves. It's getting rather childish.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 19, 2012 11:04PM)
I'm starting to suspect there must be an Internet Law of Conservation of Nastiness. sirbrad hasn't posted in a while, but the thread's still ugly. It's as if the universe compelled others to step in and fill the void of superiority and name-calling he left.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 19, 2012 11:09PM)
It's all done intentionally to keep people talking about Real Secrets. Nothing sells better than controversy. :)
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 19, 2012 11:10PM)
I didn't think you were interested in helping them.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 19, 2012 11:18PM)
Why not, I almost made $45 dollars out of it. The least I can do is help to keep the controversy going. ;)
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Mar 19, 2012 11:27PM)
There remains, however, the incongruity of the statement "We are offering Platinum memberships for a one time annual fee..." and the requirement for a fixed "recurring annual payment" to remain in effect in order for that membership to continue or even be accepted in the first place. I do not wish to delve into the matter of how membership in "good standing" is defined by anonymous people who do not know what "one time fee" means, as that would call for speculation and my opinion might appear unkind.

Before anyone gets angry with me, let me repeat that I have no objections to the concept of a trick of the month club and I have no problem with anyone giving this one a go. We have different ways of looking at things. I signed up and was tossed out against my objection, as were Tom Stone and others, because we went into our personal accounts and cancelled a future second time fee. Not nice, no matter how you twist it. It's okay. I can live with it. I have already spent the refunded money on other goodies. (No, not the Blammo Wonder Deck.)

I find people's different takes on the matter interesting. Reading about the latest and greatest ACAAN is the thing that is beginning to wear me down. :)

Keep it fun, friends.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 19, 2012 11:32PM)
I liked the video you made. It looked like you had a lot of fun doing it.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Mar 19, 2012 11:37PM)
Thanks, Gary. I am thinking now that the next item for sale should have been a package sealed in a plain brown wrapper, but with unknown contents. It might not have as much impact as the Bullet Catch, but I probably could sell a lot of them for about $12.00.
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Mar 19, 2012 11:39PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-20 00:03, GaryLee wrote:
Only recently did they become verified. They were not always. Everything else I say I stand by. You still don't know what you are talking about. Argue all you want, but I have better things than get into a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed.

I don't care about RS business model. I got over it pages ago. Even Sirbrad has gotten over it. maybe you should think about getting over it. Your defending something you know nothing about. Until April first, it's hush hush now.

Just because some of us agree that the business model is not attractive, doesn't mean we think it's a scam. How are we to know that. Honesty says we don't know either way. So those of you who are so adament about attacking those who don't like the busines model need to get over themselves. It's getting rather childish.
[/quote]

Gary, you know when an unranked college basketball team, playing in their own gym, beats the #1 team in the country. And then their fans start cheering "OVER-RATED!" It's a dumb thing to cheer, right? Because it lessens the victory.

Similarly, when you make three points and I show that you're wrong on all three:

1. The two business we were talking about have identical business models. It's called the subscription business model. Any first-year business student at a community college could point
this out. (the fact that you don't know the name of whoever is running Real Secrets doesn't change their "business model." What you seem to have an issue with is some of their business practices.)
2. They have identical guarantees (if you're dissatisfied, you can get a pro-rated refund.)
3. Real Secrets IS verified on paypal.

you shouldn't imply I'm dumb, because it magnifies the defeat of me pulling the rug out from under your argument. You just got outwitted by a dumb guy, to hear you tell it. And if you ARE going to imply I'm dumb, at least try to do it in an way that doesn't point out your ineptitude with the English language and sad lack of originality. "I have better things than get into a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed," is a fine butchering of a classic quote, but it's hardly a telling example of your creativity. Well, for your sake I hope it's not.

But you've convinced me, Gary. This thing is DEFINITELY suspicious. But I don't want to argue with you anymore either. I'm going to try and fight it from the inside. shhhhhhhh. don't tell!

And billmarq, you're right, the mandatory recurring payment is dumb. My feeling is, if this ends up sucking I will have cancelled before the year is up anyway, and if it's good, I'll be glad I don't have to bother with signing up again. So for ME it's fine. But I agree it shouldn't be mandatory and making it so is a poor business practice.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 20, 2012 01:18AM)
If I have to go all the way back to first explaining to you what a business model is, then...well, I will give you the definition. Class is now is session.

A business model is not what a business sells.

Definition of 'Business Model'
The plan implemented by a company to generate revenue and make a profit from operations. The model includes the components and functions of the business, as well as the revenues it generates and the expenses it incurs.


This describes the method or means by which a company tries to capture value from its business. A business model may be based on many different aspects of a company, such as how it makes, distributes, prices or advertises its products.

Example

For instance, the 'razors and blades' model used by companies such as Gilette, in which a basic product (the razor) is sold cheaply, but an essential add-on or consumable (the blade) is sold at a high price once the customer has been lured in. [1]

The business model concentrates on value creation. It describes a company's or organisation's core strategy to generate economic value, normally in the form of revenue

Another example is a mobile phone company may sell handsets (the bait) at a reduced price while signing up customers to buy calls over the period of a contract (the hook). [2]

read more here. http://lexicon.ft.com/Term?term=business-model

Okay, I'm reading. Pull the rug from under me.(lol) Any first-year business student at a community college could point
this out.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 20, 2012 01:28AM)
Since I own my own business, and oh my, what's that on my wall? My BBA Hmmm. Me thinks maybe community college did you wrong. Please don't insult me with your ignorance. As far as my spelling goes, I'm still getting used to typing on a keyboard. It also doesn't help when you are missing two fingers on one hand and one finger on the other, and having a keyboard that sticks.

There, I took extra time to not only educate you on the definition on what a business model is, but I was also kind enough to provide the link for further information if you shall choose to continue to prove your ignorance.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 20, 2012 01:42AM)
Wow. Now I actually miss sirbrad.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 20, 2012 01:47AM)
And to think, all he had to do was google the definition of business model to find out how wrong he is.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 20, 2012 01:53AM)
I like how you keep pretending I'm not talking about you. :lol:
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 20, 2012 02:20AM)
You'll have to excuse me, I haven't been paying attention to your posts. Sorry, what about me?
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 20, 2012 02:27AM)
Just looking back I see that I did answer one of your questions I believe was addressed to me. Was there something else I missed?
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 20, 2012 03:10AM)
Heh. You crack me up, Gary.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 20, 2012 04:10AM)
Gary,
Did you really write that? It's..... unbelievably..pompous
James


[quote]
On 2012-03-20 02:28, GaryLee wrote:
Since I own my own business, and oh my, what's that on my wall? My BBA Hmmm. Me thinks maybe community college did you wrong. Please don't insult me with your ignorance. As far as my spelling goes, I'm still getting used to typing on a keyboard. It also doesn't help when you are missing two fingers on one hand and one finger on the other, and having a keyboard that sticks.

There, I took extra time to not only educate you on the definition on what a business model is, but I was also kind enough to provide the link for further information if you shall choose to continue to prove your ignorance.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Mar 20, 2012 08:58AM)
Okay, c'mon guys - let's not start getting stupid, eh?

Mike.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 20, 2012 09:02AM)
Yes it was, but someone decided to challenge my intellect, and tried to insult it as well. He pulled the first shot. I was nice about it at first, until he insisted he was right and I was wrong. It was also very pompous of the other guy. Plus, I had a lot of fun with it. Did you see how convinced he was about thinking what a business model is. Like I said, all he had to do was google the definition, instead he choose to argue with me. Pretty pompous of him wouldn't you say?
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 20, 2012 09:11AM)
This is what provoked me to be pompous. He was far more pompous than me. And, he was wrong too.

[quote]
On 2012-03-20 00:39, Magicsquared wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-20 00:03, GaryLee wrote:
Only recently did they become verified. They were not always. Everything else I say I stand by. You still don't know what you are talking about. Argue all you want, but I have better things than get into a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed.

I don't care about RS business model. I got over it pages ago. Even Sirbrad has gotten over it. maybe you should think about getting over it. Your defending something you know nothing about. Until April first, it's hush hush now.

Just because some of us agree that the business model is not attractive, doesn't mean we think it's a scam. How are we to know that. Honesty says we don't know either way. So those of you who are so adament about attacking those who don't like the busines model need to get over themselves. It's getting rather childish.
[/quote]

Gary, you know when an unranked college basketball team, playing in their own gym, beats the #1 team in the country. And then their fans start cheering "OVER-RATED!" It's a dumb thing to cheer, right? Because it lessens the victory.

Similarly, when you make three points and I show that you're wrong on all three:

1. The two business we were talking about have identical business models. It's called the subscription business model. Any first-year business student at a community college could point
this out. (the fact that you don't know the name of whoever is running Real Secrets doesn't change their "business model." What you seem to have an issue with is some of their business practices.)
2. They have identical guarantees (if you're dissatisfied, you can get a pro-rated refund.)
3. Real Secrets IS verified on paypal.

you shouldn't imply I'm dumb, because it magnifies the defeat of me pulling the rug out from under your argument. You just got outwitted by a dumb guy, to hear you tell it. And if you ARE going to imply I'm dumb, at least try to do it in an way that doesn't point out your ineptitude with the English language and sad lack of originality. "I have better things than get into a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed," is a fine butchering of a classic quote, but it's hardly a telling example of your creativity. Well, for your sake I hope it's not.

But you've convinced me, Gary. This thing is DEFINITELY suspicious. But I don't want to argue with you anymore either. I'm going to try and fight it from the inside. shhhhhhhh. don't tell!

And billmarq, you're right, the mandatory recurring payment is dumb. My feeling is, if this ends up sucking I will have cancelled before the year is up anyway, and if it's good, I'll be glad I don't have to bother with signing up again. So for ME it's fine. But I agree it shouldn't be mandatory and making it so is a poor business practice.
[/quote]

This quote especially encouraged me to further prove how wrong he was. I even provided a link for further info should he need it before coming back on here and challenging my intellegence again.

"And if you ARE going to imply I'm dumb, at least try to do it in an way that doesn't point out your ineptitude with the English language and sad lack of originality."

I took him up on it in a pompous way.
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Mar 20, 2012 09:11AM)
Oh, no, Brother, don't pull me into the middle.

Gary, I have found your posts to be insightful and I tend to agree with your point of view...But we are all going way over the edge here.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 20, 2012 09:16AM)
"Okay, c'mon guys - let's not start getting stupid, eh? "

Agree! This thread is much more fun when it doesn't go ad hominem. I am trying to keep my eye on the ball and, even though not a member, eagerly awaiting April 1. I hope for the best, but still have the image of Ralphie running to the mailbox every day. "Drink your ovaltine? Son of a ....."!
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 20, 2012 09:16AM)
Yay, I know. Time for me to take a break.


<everyone claps)
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 20, 2012 09:21AM)
I know Magicsquared to be a very intelligent member of the Café. He, like all of us, is very passionate about magic.
I think if the two of you actually met, you would find your similarities far outweigh your differences.

Real Secrets is... what it is. If anyone does not like any aspect about the plan, transparency,secrecy, business model of any definition, it does not matter. It's "take it or leave it".

I choose to take it. Not because of delusions of exclusivity, or trying to be an elitist snob or getting something better than someone else or having something someone else doesn't.

I used to belong to the Shadow network. Unfortunately, I joined after the really cool part where they used to mail letters and send boxes to each other. I always wanted to do that. Later Danny Orleans was going to do a "Magic of the month" club. I wanted to do that but he said shipping would be too expensive. Real Secrets is like a book of the month club, or CD club of yesteryear, but with magic.

I'm not really sure what all the argument is about here. I like it, ok great. You don't like it, ok, great. I'm ok, your ok.
We are all, a little weird, but basically ok. Alright, I am REALLY weird!
James
ps
This is what my wife and I did this afternoon while you guys were arguing:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2556057281039.90527.1842204958&type=1&l=39bd0739ec



[quote]
On 2012-03-20 10:02, GaryLee wrote:
Yes it was, but someone decided to challenge my intellect, and tried to insult it as well. He pulled the first shot. I was nice about it at first, until he insisted he was right and I was wrong. It was also very pompous of the other guy. Plus, I had a lot of fun with it. Did you see how convinced he was about thinking what a business model is. Like I said, all he had to do was google the definition, instead he choose to argue with me. Pretty pompous of him wouldn't you say?
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 20, 2012 09:29AM)
When I saw those pictures, I said to myself, there is a man with a heart of gold. Not all of us can do something like that. I know I could never do that because I would make the mistake of feeling sorry for them. You have a great shining smile on your face, and the smiles on the children shows how much fun they are having with you.

That's real magic. What I do is more for myself. What you do is clearly about others. Thanks James!
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 20, 2012 09:32AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-19 01:00, billmarq wrote:
I finally put together a video from the footage I shot. In it, I satirize how magic is marketed to us hobbyist and professional magicians. THe video is okay, but suffers from a noticeable audio hum on one of my microphones. Oh well. I can probably eliminate the hum, but that means more time on the workstation. I also used the wrong f-stop so the bright areas are a little bit washed out, but I am not sure the end result is worth retaping the whole thing. It's all for fun, so enjoy.

If you have ten minutes to spare, give it a look and let me know what you think of the idea. It is not directly related to RS, but it deals with marketing magic products so it bears some relationship.

The Magic Shopping Network is at: http://youtu.be/8XIjHzsaVcU
[/quote]

Bill- great vid! Can I use some of the ideas on my next busking attempt? :)
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Mar 20, 2012 10:52AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-20 02:42, FrenchDrop wrote:
Wow. Now I actually miss sirbrad.
[/quote]

I wish there was a way to do a 'like' on the MagicCafe!
Message: Posted by: Jim Sparx (Mar 20, 2012 11:03AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-20 00:37, billmarq wrote:
Thanks, Gary. I am thinking now that the next item for sale should have been a package sealed in a plain brown wrapper, but with unknown contents. It might not have as much impact as the Bullet Catch, but I probably could sell a lot of them for about $12.00.
[/quote]

If you decide to do the Bullet Catch, I'll supply the bullets. I have some .308 Winchesters I need to get rid of.
I wonder if the RS team realizes that if anyone lodges a complaint Pay pal will lock up their account for as long as 6 months?
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Mar 20, 2012 12:26PM)
Gary,

Real Secrets has a subscription business model.
So does amazingclub.com.

You said their business models are "not even comparable." But you're wrong about that. They're the same.

I fully admire your ability to copy and paste articles from the web (start with this one next time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subscription_business_model ), perhaps you learned that skill on your way to your BBA, but nothing in the article contradicts the fact they both have subscription business models.

I applaud your college degree and that you own your own business. I only wish it translated into more monetary success, to the point that you didn't feel like $12 a month was -- to use your words -- "such a risk."

As a gesture of good will, I would like to buy you a gold membership to Real Secrets,(seriously, PM me your contact information) that way you can see what they're offering with NO risk at all. Then, if it turns out to be a disaster, you and I can BOTH come trash it here.
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 20, 2012 12:45PM)
Gesh, not again! :(

I prefer to not use WIKI, but here you go. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_model

Business model From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
A business model describes the rationale of how an organization creates, delivers, and captures value[1] (economic, social, or other forms of value). The process of business model construction is part of business strategy.

And some examples of Business Models from WIKI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_model#Examples_of_Business_models

Thanks for the offer though on the gold membership. That is kind of you, but I'll decline, thanks! :)
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Mar 20, 2012 01:04PM)
Yes, I know what a business model is. Again, they both have the same business model. Instead of acting exasperated, please tell me how you think they differ (not their business PRACTICES, Gary, their business model).

I'll make it easy on you. "Real secrets has a _____________ business model. Amazing Clubs had a _________ business model." Just pluck the business model you think they're each using from the list. I'm genuinely curious what you think. I would say "subscription" for both, but I don't have a BBA, so what am I missing here?
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Mar 20, 2012 01:54PM)
Gentlemen - I am not taking sides, but I believe the major difference between your two opinions centers around the description of the RS business model. Is it a "subscription?" Yes, but that does not describe the entire model which includes methods of billing, advertising the service, etc. I specifically object to one aspect of their way of doing business, something that is part of their model but not part of every subscription based business.

We are picking nits here.
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Mar 20, 2012 02:28PM)
Hi Bill,

I was speaking in the traditional, broad strokes of a business model. Billing, advertising, and those sorts of things are logistics that certainly play a part in the day to day operations of a business but they generally don't affect the broad business model category.

Perhaps that's what Gary has an issue with: the logistics. that's certainly valid. But his concern, at least as originally expressed to me, was with the concept of paying for something when you don't know exactly what you're getting. When I pointed out that this is a well established business model (the "something"-of-the-month club) he acted as if this was nothing like those other subscription services, when in actual fact it's an identical core-strategy (which, as Gary pointed out, is what a business model is).

Hold on, there's someone at the door...

Oh sweet! I just won an award for helping to contribute to "The Most Boring Tangent on a Café Thread." What an honor. Thanks, everyone.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Mar 20, 2012 02:49PM)
Well, we have at least twelve more days to kill before the REALLY interesting stuff shows up here. Anyway, even before this thread drifted off into discussions of business models or links to videos (ahem) one person announced on the Genii forum that he had quit the Magic Café because of the bickering going on in this particular thread.

I am waiting for the names of the principals behind this scheme. They cannot hide forever. :sawingchick:
Message: Posted by: GaryLee (Mar 20, 2012 02:57PM)
I agree with you Bill. I for one, do not wish to continue to adress him anymore. If he wants to be right, or believe he's right, I'll give him that. Maybe it'll make his day, rather than have to continue this pathetic arguement I admitt getting caught up in.
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Mar 20, 2012 03:07PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-20 15:57, GaryLee wrote:
I agree with you Bill. I for one, do not wish to continue to adress him anymore. If he wants to be right, or believe he's right, I'll give him that. Maybe it'll make his day, rather than have to continue this pathetic arguement I admitt getting caught up in.
[/quote]

You're adorable.

[quote]
On 2012-03-20 15:49, billmarq wrote:

I am waiting for the names of the principals behind this scheme. They cannot hide forever. :sawingchick:
[/quote]

That thread on the Genii forum will give you a pretty good idea of some of the people behind it, or at least people who have some kind of stake in it.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Mar 20, 2012 04:32PM)
[quote]
That thread on the Genii forum will give you a pretty good idea of some of the people behind it, or at least people who have some kind of stake in it.
[/quote]

Yes, names of contributors are known but I doubt that each of them is aware of the exact nature of the "rules" for membership or the misleading way it was announced (advertised.) I don't wish to dwell on the negative anymore, but honestly I won't do business with anyone associated with the manner in which this process took place. I sincerely hope for the sake of all whose money was not returned and membership rejected that they receive a great product in return. Maybe someday I will kick myself for stubbornly holding to principles about how I control my own money accounts, because I have missed out on something great, but I doubt it. Meanwhile, I have three books by Harry Lorayne, two by Richard Kaufman (re: Dingle and Bro. Hamman) and one by Schneider to absorb and much to learn.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 20, 2012 05:51PM)
What in the world makes you think these people are somehow "unaware" of what Real Secrets is doing or the rules that they operate under.
I would imagine those people would be happy to be included in something that was not mass marketed. A chance to be first to publish, then later have the claim on a sleight or effect without it going to youtube.

Lots of creators publish because they fear someone else will beat them to the punch.
James


[quote]
On 2012-03-20 17:32, billmarq wrote:
[quote]
That thread on the Genii forum will give you a pretty good idea of some of the people behind it, or at least people who have some kind of stake in it.
[/quote]

Yes, names of contributors are known but I doubt that each of them is aware of the exact nature of the "rules" for membership or the misleading way it was announced (advertised.)
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 20, 2012 06:33PM)
I like Bill's Business Model.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Mar 20, 2012 07:04PM)
@Atom - Thanks. I presume you mean the Magic Shopping Network. I can see the magic world coming to that some day. I hope not!

@James - I made an honest attempt to resolve my differences with the RS Team through emails, but was unsuccessful. They insisted that they were right in spite of the misleading message in their announcements and flat out told me that my membership was canceled in spite of my refusal to cancel it myself.

I do not wish to obtain the reputation of a whiner or as someone crying "sour grapes," so perhaps I should sit back for a week or two and see what develops. I sincerely hope that none of the reputable magicians named as contributors to the canon of effects to be delivered would approve of the way RS is handling persons such as me who want to maintain control of their own Paypal or credit accounts.

I am certain that the majority of members will be happy with the magic they receive. The secrecy and price were not issues for me, only the failure to provide me with what was promised in their advertisement. It is not my intention to dampen anyone's enthusiasm for this deal. Just be aware of the nuances that are not evident in their promotions.

Ask yourself if canceling the automatic payment sometime in the future will constitute failure to meet the terms and conditions of the agreement and what the consequences of that would be. I honestly don't know the answer to that, given my experience.

'Bye for awhile.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 20, 2012 07:35PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-20 17:32, billmarq wrote:
Meanwhile, I have three books by Harry Lorayne, two by Richard Kaufman (re: Dingle and Bro. Hamman) and one by Schneider to absorb and much to learn.
[/quote]

Perhaps you should contact SIRbrad as he claims to have over 2,000 books in his collection! Maybe he might be willing to sell you some at a very reasonable price. Hell, I don’t think that David Copperfield has that many and he owns a magic museum, but you just never know! ;)

Other than that, and as far as this thread is going....[img]http://www.bonsaichat.net/gallery/data/506/snore1.gif[/img]
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 20, 2012 08:09PM)
Business model? Business modal??? Shirley you jest...
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 20, 2012 08:11PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-20 21:09, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote:
Business model? Business modal??? Shirley you jest...
[/quote]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A5t5_O8hdA

Oh yes.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 20, 2012 11:43PM)
Hi Bill,
No one thinks you are a whiner. I personally won't cancel if it's good. If it isn't then I will cancel and not care about the repercussions.
With Paypal, I have always been able to cancel the recurring payment if I was not happy. If this is not for you, I understand.

I do think the contributors know the deal.
James
[quote]
On 2012-03-20 20:04, billmarq wrote:

Ask yourself if canceling the automatic payment sometime in the future will constitute failure to meet the terms and conditions of the agreement and what the consequences of that would be.
'Bye for awhile.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Steve Brooks (Mar 22, 2012 09:13PM)
Hey guys, I would have chimed in much sooner but as many of you know I've been dealing with a lot of family drama here at home. :nod:

That said, here is my position on the [i]REAL SECRETS[/i] project:

Back in the mid 1970's there were a couple different companies that marketed a type of [i]Trick of the Month[/i] club. Both organizations worked very much like the old record clubs of the time (i.e, You picked out a couple of tricks from their catalog and then each month you received a new trick in the mail).

As a youngster I thought the magic clubs were very cool, especially since there were not any magic shops near me. Also, the mystery of receiving a new unknown miracle each month in the mail was something I looked forward to. Sometimes I liked the tricks I received, other times I didn't. However, as a whole I learned much about magic and am better for the experience. :bwink:

In that light you can see why I was interested in the [i]REAL SECRETS[/i] project. Add to that, with guys like [b]Michael Weber[/b] being involved, how can you go wrong?

Having said all of that, you should know I am NOT involved with [i]REAL SECRETS[/i] and infact do NOT know who all the people that [i]are[/i] involved. In fact, I have absolutely no financial interest one way or the other, except of course my first years fee. ;)

So, if the [i]REAL SECRETS[/i] project turns out to be a joke, I have been suckered into it just like the rest of you! :lol:

I'm looking forward to seeing what [i]REAL SECRETS[/i] brings to our community and am anxious to see their first offerings. Hopefully this is everything that my imagination thinks it should be. :)
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 22, 2012 09:36PM)
If I wasn't already in for the ride, Steve Brooks' post would have me joining immediately!

Clarke
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Mar 22, 2012 09:51PM)
I am looking forward to real secrets, I have had enough with all those other lame pretend secrets.
Message: Posted by: dendrake (Mar 23, 2012 03:01AM)
Not sure if this has been said before. (Soooo many pages) will there be a private “Real Secrets section” here at the café so members can police Real Secrets independently?
Or will that be against their rules?
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 23, 2012 04:09AM)
I personally will not be doing any "policing". I plan on just trying to enjoy the fun of magic.
YAAAYYYYY!!!!!
James

[quote]
On 2012-03-23 04:01, dendrake wrote:
Not sure if this has been said before. (Soooo many pages) will there be a private “Real Secrets section” here at the café so members can police Real Secrets independently?
Or will that be against their rules?
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 23, 2012 08:31AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-22 22:36, Zombie Magic wrote:
If I wasn't already in for the ride, Steve Brooks' post would have me joining immediately!

Clarke
[/quote]
Yes, well said! I have been vacillating and had decided to hold off. However, Steve's post has me on board- if this sinks, what a great group to sink with! Good to see you on Steve, and thank you for some important input. All good thoughts as you work to heal.

Regards,

Jim
Message: Posted by: Jim Sparx (Mar 23, 2012 08:58AM)
More important than the Real Secrets, we are glad to see you back, Mr. Brooks, and I know all the members are wishing the best for you and your family, with our sincere condolences.
Message: Posted by: writeall (Mar 23, 2012 11:07AM)
James,

Your enthusiasm, and some contact with Real Secrets has gotten me to order. For all my waffling, I ended up on the bus after all. It remeinds me of the little thrill I get when my favorite magazine arrives in the mail. Some issues are better than others, but I still get a nice smile when I find it in the mailbox, and some much needed distraction in an otherwise busy life.

So... will we even be able to talk to other Real Secrets members? How could I verify who was who? There's a huge added value if I can pick the brains of others in the community -- a good idea can turn an also-ran effect into pure gold. (I'm thinking of Garrett Thomas' 14-cents trick with the locking dime and penny gimmick.)

I guess Secrecy has its downside.
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Mar 23, 2012 11:11AM)
I'd assume members will have their own forum somewhere, safely locked from prying eyes. Good ideas dumped into creative minds can only be good times and fun for all.
Message: Posted by: ralphs007 (Mar 23, 2012 11:22AM)
Hi
I've considered this but I'm already over extended on the new magic effects, I'm trying to learn !

Ralph
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Mar 23, 2012 11:24AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-23 12:11, Tom Jorgenson wrote:
I'd assume members will have their own forum somewhere, safely locked from prying eyes. Good ideas dumped into creative minds can only be good times and fun for all.
[/quote]

According to the email they sent to people who signed up, there will be a dedicated email set up for people to contribute ideas and new handlings and those will be distributed if they seem useful. While I wouldn't mind a message board, I actually kind of prefer having the ideas brought together and curated in some format. I have enough message boards to occupy my time.

Also, if you're someone who is on the fence, I would suggest signing up at least for the first three month subscription. I would assume the first few items that come out are going to be some of the strongest ones they have in the pipeline in order to create a good buzz about the project. (At least that seems like a logical assumption.)
Message: Posted by: BatsMagic (Mar 23, 2012 02:28PM)
I haven't finished reading all of the posts here yet, but I certainly am amused at all of the sniping. For now I'll just say that I'm in. I was an early subscriber, and I'm looking forward to "Real Secrets". In approximately 2 weeks the ones who took a chance will know the truth. All I can say is that, for every ten $30 or $35 DVD's that I buy, I might put one trick into my performance repertoire. And that's with knowing the type of effect that I am buying. So if I get 4 good ones in a year from this, I'll consider it a bargain. I certainly expect that to happen. We'll see.

Posted: Mar 23, 2012 3:48pm
Oh, and I took the $144 plunge- I want the exclusive Michael Weber effect. My wife wanted to kill me and didn't talk to me for a few days- that was actually a good thing!
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 23, 2012 03:33PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-23 09:58, spartacus wrote:
More important than the Real Secrets, we are glad to see you back, Mr. Brooks, and I know all the members are wishing the best for you and your family, with our sincere condolences.
[/quote]
Well said!
[quote]
On 2012-03-23 15:28, BatsMagic wrote:
I haven't finished reading all of the posts here yet, but I certainly am amused at all of the sniping. For now I'll just say that I'm in. I was an early subscriber, and I'm looking forward to "Real Secrets". In approximately 2 weeks the ones who took a chance will know the truth. All I can say is that, for every ten $30 or $35 DVD's that I buy, I might put one trick into my performance repertoire. And that's with knowing the type of effect that I am buying. So if I get 4 good ones in a year from this, I'll consider it a bargain. I certainly expect that to happen. We'll see.
[/quote]
I have to ask: If you only use one out of 10 things you buy when you know what you're getting, why would you expect to use one out of 3 things you buy sight unseen, with no clue what you're getting?
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 23, 2012 03:38PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-23 15:28, BatsMagic wrote:
I haven't finished reading all of the posts here yet, but I certainly am amused at all of the sniping. For now I'll just say that I'm in. I was an early subscriber, and I'm looking forward to "Real Secrets". In approximately 2 weeks the ones who took a chance will know the truth. All I can say is that, for every ten $30 or $35 DVD's that I buy, I might put one trick into my performance repertoire. And that's with knowing the type of effect that I am buying. So if I get 4 good ones in a year from this, I'll consider it a bargain. I certainly expect that to happen. We'll see.
[/quote]
I have to ask: If you only use one out of 10 things you buy when you know what you're getting, why would you expect to use one out of 3 things you buy sight unseen, with no clue what you're getting?
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Mar 23, 2012 04:40PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-23 09:31, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-22 22:36, Zombie Magic wrote:
If I wasn't already in for the ride, Steve Brooks' post would have me joining immediately!

Clarke
[/quote]

Yes, well said! I have been vacillating and had decided to hold off. However, Steve's post has me on board- if this sinks, what a great group to sink with! Good to see you on Steve, and thank you for some important input. All good thoughts as you work to heal.

Regards,

Jim
[/quote]

Genius,

Steve takes pains to distance himself from this project and avow no knowledge of all the parties involved and some folk take that as a positive indicator to jump on board.

You really couldn't make it up.
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Mar 23, 2012 05:00PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-23 17:40, Ray Chelt wrote:

Genius,

Steve takes pains to distance himself from this project and avow no knowledge of all the parties involved and some folk take that as a positive indicator to jump on board.

You really couldn't make it up.
[/quote]

I don't think he was trying to "distance himself from this project" as much as he was trying to make it clear that he is not one of the people behind the project (as some people have misconstrued his endorsement as implying).

Obviously the rest of his post was pointing out that there's a precedent for this type of thing and that he's into it and excited about it. Which you're not. And yet you keep returning to this thread.

You really couldn't make it up.
Message: Posted by: BatsMagic (Mar 23, 2012 05:24PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-23 16:38, FrenchDrop wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-23 15:28, BatsMagic wrote:
I haven't finished reading all of the posts here yet, but I certainly am amused at all of the sniping. For now I'll just say that I'm in. I was an early subscriber, and I'm looking forward to "Real Secrets". In approximately 2 weeks the ones who took a chance will know the truth. All I can say is that, for every ten $30 or $35 DVD's that I buy, I might put one trick into my performance repertoire. And that's with knowing the type of effect that I am buying. So if I get 4 good ones in a year from this, I'll consider it a bargain. I certainly expect that to happen. We'll see.
[/quote]
I have to ask: If you only use one out of 10 things you buy when you know what you're getting, why would you expect to use one out of 3 things you buy sight unseen, with no clue what you're getting?
[/quote]

A legitimate question, and here's my answer- I have FAITH in the people involved in the product. I like Max Maven and I like Michael Weber. I believe that, right there, I will get two good effects. I believe that "Real Secrets" will separate the wheat from the chaff for me. Maybe I'm a sucker for all of the hype that is presented in ads that are designed to sell a product- and make no mistake about it, I fell for the "Real Secrets" advertising, as minimal as it has been. If Real Secrets does not deliver, they will not last. I think that they want to last. When Jay Sankey disappointed me one too many times I never returned to his website. And I NEVER will again- I don't care what he comes up with. When I bought an item that claimed "No IT", and I opened up the package and there was ELASTIC IT, It got me pretty upset. The producer claimed that it wasn't IT in the traditional sense of IT, but darn it, it was IT! I don't want to deal with them anymore- I wanted an effect that did not use IT, but that is what I got. BS! BS! If, after a year, I am disappointed with "Real Secrets", I will drop them like a hot potato. I don't think they want to be dropped! Now that I answered your question, FrenchDrop, please answer one for me- Do you use all of the effects that you pay for? This is not meant to start a fight- I refuse to do that. I just want to know what your success ratio is. I know that mine is not very high. I'm not sure if it is 1 out of 10, but it's got to be close!
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Mar 23, 2012 05:25PM)
I think what is real genius, (evil genius maybe), is how nearly any positive post can be given a negative spin and see a conspiracy in it.

[quote]
On 2012-03-23 04:01, dendrake wrote:
Not sure if this has been said before. (Soooo many pages) will there be a private “Real Secrets section” here at the café so members can police Real Secrets independently?
Or will that be against their rules?
[/quote]

I think there is a high probability that Real Secrets will host their own password protected message board to discuss presentation ideas, etc. Not that I have any inside info, just from what I've heard others say and the fact that they have provided a site to log into. I certainly hope they do anyway!
Message: Posted by: BatsMagic (Mar 23, 2012 05:29PM)
And I said if I got 4 good ones, I would consider it a bargain. I'd be happy with less than 4. Strange, isn't it? But then again, aren't magicians strange?
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 23, 2012 05:59PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-23 18:24, BatsMagic wrote:
Now that I answered your question, FrenchDrop, please answer one for me- Do you use all of the effects that you pay for?[/quote]
No, I don't. What's your point? ;)

Honestly, I haven't bought a lot of stuff since I got back into magic last year (after more than 20 years away from it). As a kid, I mostly did platform stuff, birthday parties, etc. I learned the basics of card sleights back then, but I'm much more interested in cards now. So what I've bought in the past year has mostly been books and DVDs on technique, with effects interspersed.

I have bought some individual tricks, and no, I don't use all of them. I can think of one trick I *may* not ever use and one other I'm pretty sure I'll never use. Everything else I either use currently or will probably use eventually.

But you know my question wasn't "Why do you buy a lot of magic you don't use?" -- so the small amount of magic I buy and don't use is beside the point.
Message: Posted by: BatsMagic (Mar 23, 2012 09:48PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-23 18:59, FrenchDrop wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-23 18:24, BatsMagic wrote:
Now that I answered your question, FrenchDrop, please answer one for me- Do you use all of the effects that you pay for?[/quote]
No, I don't. What's your point? ;)
[/quote]

Well, I just want to know what your success ratio is. That is my success ratio. Like I said, I'm not trying to pick a fight here, and I won't take the bait if I am baited again. I BELIEVE that I can get 4 good tricks in the coming year. I also believed that Whiney Houston straightened her life out. I was wrong. I believe that the NY Mets will win the World Series this year. I start out the baseball season believing that EVERY year. Yeah, I'm wrong a lot about that. I'll be wrong again in my life. I just don't BELIEVE that I'll be wrong about "Real Secrets". Otherwise I would not have given them $144. I don't have to explain my beliefs. I just have to acknowledge when my beliefs turn out to be wrong. And I will tell you if I end up believing that I am wrong about "Real Secrets". And just because I believe that I am right (or wrong!) doesn't mean that EVERYONE feels the same way! Now I'm going to read more comments about "Real Secrets". I'll be posting more in this forum in the coming weeks, especially after I get my first issue. You can count on that!
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 23, 2012 10:03PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-23 22:48, BatsMagic wrote:
Well, I just want to know what your success ratio is. That is my success ratio. Like I said, I'm not trying to pick a fight here, and I won't take the bait if I am baited again.[/quote]
Baited? Again? Who baited you, and how?

[quote]I BELIEVE that I can get 4 good tricks in the coming year. I also believed that Whiney Houston straightened her life out. I was wrong. I believe that the NY Mets will win the World Series this year. I start out the baseball season believing that EVERY year. Yeah, I'm wrong a lot about that. I'll be wrong again in my life. I just don't BELIEVE that I'll be wrong about "Real Secrets".[/quote]
It does seem that a lot of people who've chosen to go for Real Secrets are basically natural, eternal optimists. The anonymity and shortage of information doesn't bother them, because they'll always believe the best is going to happen, no matter how many times they've been burned in the past. Maybe it could be said that the Real Secrets subscribers are glass-half-full kinda guys, and the skeptics are more on the glass-half-empty side. :D

(Although a couple of the higher-profile "skeptics" have shown themselves to be more like smash-the-glass-because-all-I-really-want-is-attention kinda guys. :P )
Message: Posted by: BatsMagic (Mar 23, 2012 10:06PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-06 19:48, insight wrote:
Should this thread be locked? Very few people seem positively excited about Real Secrets, the original intention of the thread. The negative excitement is another story.

Regards,
Mike
[/quote]

Two simple words- I'm excited!
Message: Posted by: BatsMagic (Mar 24, 2012 12:02AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-17 23:00, Tom G wrote:
Thinking of all the PDFs I bought and are neither original or worth the paper I printed them on, and the one trick DVDs that were crap, I'll
gamble on RS.
[/quote]

I'll second that- I've wasted lots of money on magic, but I believe this will be different. Again, I may be wrong; it's only a belief. But it's based on what little I know for sure. Two weeks from tonight I plan on drooling all over my package. Try and stop me!
Message: Posted by: BatsMagic (Mar 24, 2012 01:02AM)
I just spent 5 hours reading all of these posts about nothing. All I can say is "Wow!". AND I'M STILL DEFINITELY LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS PROJECT!
Message: Posted by: Judah Vee (Mar 24, 2012 03:38AM)
Well, this has been an entertaining thread, for sure. As a lot know, I was in since the very start. I have avoided posting much here as I don't see anything I would post as helpful. I am not a optimist,per se, more like a pessimistic optimist. I took a chance because I have the disposable income and I like the names being thrown around as contributors. And As I stated in an earlier post, the Real Secrets Team has provided me with a reason to believe in the project. I have read through this thread and see that the subject is a hotly debated one, with mostly lefts and rights with a few on the fence. I support EVERYONES opinion, however adamant some have been. I will continue to be a part of the project until I have a reason not to be.

And that's my latest two pence on the subject,

-J-
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 24, 2012 03:46AM)
Heyyyyyyy. I posted that I was excited AND I said YIIIIPPPPEEEE!!!!
I think that is something,lol
James
5 hours? I have dyslexia and I read faster than that......kidding,kidding!!

[quote]
On 2012-03-24 02:02, BatsMagic wrote:
I just spent 5 hours reading all of these posts about nothing. All I can say is "Wow!". AND I'M STILL DEFINITELY LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS PROJECT!
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 24, 2012 03:49AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-24 02:02, BatsMagic wrote:
I just spent 5 hours reading all of these posts about nothing. All I can say is "Wow!". AND I'M STILL DEFINITELY LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS PROJECT!
[/quote]
I think I probably would've quit after one hour's reading, if I honestly thought the thread was about nothing.

Maybe two. ;)
Message: Posted by: bobflyer (Mar 24, 2012 08:50AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-24 02:02, BatsMagic wrote:
I just spent 5 hours reading all of these posts about nothing. All I can say is "Wow!". AND I'M STILL DEFINITELY LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS PROJECT!
[/quote]
I also spent the evening reading these posts and it feels like the old excitement I used to feel when I first got interested in magic as a young boy. Thanks for bringing wonder and mystery back to magic....I'm in!
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Mar 24, 2012 10:10AM)
Yeah, I wouldn't call myself an optimist either (optimists always expect the best, thus spend a lot of their life disappointed), but I'm completely on board. I look at things very analytically.

If this turns out to be something really good to great, then I would be somewhat disappointed if I didn't jump on board from the start

However if it turns out to be garbage, and I have to cancel after a few months, and I'm out $36, my disappointment will be considerably less -- almost none -- because I'm not coming in with crazy high expectations.

I like the names that are associated with the project. I like the idea behind the project. And, for me, the risk is minimal.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 24, 2012 10:12AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-23 17:40, Ray Chelt wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-23 09:31, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-22 22:36, Zombie Magic wrote:
If I wasn't already in for the ride, Steve Brooks' post would have me joining immediately!

Clarke
[/quote]

Yes, well said! I have been vacillating and had decided to hold off. However, Steve's post has me on board- if this sinks, what a great group to sink with! Good to see you on Steve, and thank you for some important input. All good thoughts as you work to heal.

Regards,

Jim
[/quote]

Genius,

Steve takes pains to distance himself from this project and avow no knowledge of all the parties involved and some folk take that as a positive indicator to jump on board.

You really couldn't make it up.
[/quote]

I infer from "Genius" that you feel this was part of the RS marketing plan. I feel differently, and I trust Steve and what he said which, to me, was far more than an attempt to distance himself from RS. As said above, I have the disposable income to roll the dice. For that matter, using about 7 Wendy's singles with a small coke I pay for it and help my body at the same time...
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Mar 24, 2012 10:41AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-24 04:38, Judah Vee wrote:
...I took a chance because I have the disposable income...
[/quote]

Yeah, Judah, my income is disposable as well! I've thrown more money away on magic...(Bwah-ha ha-ha!)

Seriously, after reading this whole thread, if I didn't need every penny, yeah. I'd do it! This is definitely an exclusive!

Doug
Message: Posted by: BatsMagic (Mar 24, 2012 12:02PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-24 04:49, FrenchDrop wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-24 02:02, BatsMagic wrote:
I just spent 5 hours reading all of these posts about nothing. All I can say is "Wow!". AND I'M STILL DEFINITELY LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS PROJECT!
[/quote]
I think I probably would've quit after one hour's reading, if I honestly thought the thread was about nothing.

Maybe two. ;)
[/quote]

Well, lets put it this way- someone here (not me!) compared this to "Sienfeld", a show that I was a big fan of. It was about nothing, yet it had a lot of viewers. This forum is essentially about nothing, HOWEVER, it is very entertaining. This is all speculation, isn't it? I enjoyed the speculation. In two weeks I'll be enjoying the real thing. Enough said.
Message: Posted by: BatsMagic (Mar 24, 2012 12:08PM)
And, yes, it was 5 hours, but during that time I was watching the NCAA basketball games and took time out for other things. I do have a wife and two kids, you know. I'm not a total idiot, glued to my computer for 5 hours straight. I'm just a partial idiot!
Message: Posted by: sevenup (Mar 24, 2012 12:44PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-24 13:02, BatsMagic wrote:
Well, lets put it this way- someone here (not me!) compared this to "Sienfeld", a show that I was a big fan of. It was about nothing, yet it had a lot of viewers. This forum is essentially about nothing, HOWEVER, it is very entertaining. This is all speculation, isn't it? I enjoyed the speculation. In two weeks I'll be enjoying the real thing. Enough said.
[/quote]
Here is something much more entertaining and it won't take as long as reading through all these threads.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=P_0kBD_4T6o&feature=endscreen
Message: Posted by: BatsMagic (Mar 24, 2012 01:29PM)
I'm going to make one final observation here today, and then I am on my way out for the day. The RS Team has stated that your payment is only an "application". What are they to base their approval or denial on? I believe that the vast majority of the applications will be accepted. I believe and hope that most "applications" from China will be denied in an effort to stop counterfeiting. James, I can clearly see that you should be an exception to that statement; and, lets face it, Taiwan is NOT China. My comments have nothing to do with you, or any other legitimate magician from the far east. But we have to face up to reality- that is where all of the counterfeiting is going on. That's what I would do to try and prevent unauthorized copies from hitting the market. To be fair, though, it is probably unlikely that the counterfeiters are yet aware of this project, and they would probably be reluctant to take a chance on an unknown thing. But they are certainly not stupid, and can see an opportunity to make some money. I'm sure that this post will provoke a number of comments, both positive and negative. I'm not trying to stir up the pot like sirbrad, but those are my feelings on the subject.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 24, 2012 08:40PM)
Thanks for mentioning Taiwan is not China, but tons of pirating goes on here. It goes on everywhere. It's not just the makers, it's the purveyors. In New York, you think those watches on the street are real Rolex? Sure China makes them, but it's Americans selling them.

Just like magic shops. Most sell knock offs. If they didn't there would be less pirating. Anyway, For pirates to be successful, they have to have customers. But that is a discussion for another day.
James
ps
I have four kids so I am a TOTAL idiot,lol


[quote]
On 2012-03-24 14:29, BatsMagic wrote:
I'm going to make one final observation here today, and then I am on my way out for the day. The RS Team has stated that your payment is only an "application". What are they to base their approval or denial on? I believe that the vast majority of the applications will be accepted. I believe and hope that most "applications" from China will be denied in an effort to stop counterfeiting. James, I can clearly see that you should be an exception to that statement; and, lets face it, Taiwan is NOT China. My comments have nothing to do with you, or any other legitimate magician from the far east. But we have to face up to reality- that is where all of the counterfeiting is going on. That's what I would do to try and prevent unauthorized copies from hitting the market. To be fair, though, it is probably unlikely that the counterfeiters are yet aware of this project, and they would probably be reluctant to take a chance on an unknown thing. But they are certainly not stupid, and can see an opportunity to make some money. I'm sure that this post will provoke a number of comments, both positive and negative. I'm not trying to stir up the pot like sirbrad, but those are my feelings on the subject.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: edh (Mar 24, 2012 09:43PM)
I don't believe it would make any difference as to whether China is included or not.

For one, how would anyone know whether the material that they are pirating is the genuine stuff. As no one except the subscribers would know what the material is. So it would be quite easy to deny that anything pirated is the authentic material.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 24, 2012 10:09PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-24 21:40, Xiqual wrote:
Thanks for mentioning Taiwan is not China, but tons of pirating goes on here. It goes on everywhere. It's not just the makers, it's the purveyors. In New York, you think those watches on the street are real Rolex?
[/quote]

Sorry James, I have to take issue with that statement. On vacation two years ago I bought A Rolex in NYC. KILLER deal on it, too. Nothing fake about it. They even went to the expense of adding an extra L.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 24, 2012 10:10PM)
Agreed. I also feel the real problem is the customer. If there were no customers for pirated material, there would be no pirates.
If people think the USA has no magicians that buy pirated or knock off material..... I think it is a naive mindset.
James

[quote]
On 2012-03-24 22:43, edh wrote:
I don't believe it would make any difference as to whether China is included or not.

For one, how would anyone know whether the material that they are pirating is the genuine stuff. As no one except the subscribers would know what the material is. So it would be quite easy to deny that anything pirated is the authentic material.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 25, 2012 06:24AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-24 23:09, Zombie Magic wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-24 21:40, Xiqual wrote:
Thanks for mentioning Taiwan is not China, but tons of pirating goes on here. It goes on everywhere. It's not just the makers, it's the purveyors. In New York, you think those watches on the street are real Rolex?
[/quote]

Sorry James, I have to take issue with that statement. On vacation two years ago I bought A Rolex in NYC. KILLER deal on it, too. Nothing fake about it. They even went to the expense of adding an extra L.
[/quote]

:) :) :)
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 25, 2012 06:35AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-24 23:09, Zombie Magic wrote:
Sorry James, I have to take issue with that statement. On vacation two years ago I bought A Rolex in NYC. KILLER deal on it, too. Nothing fake about it. They even went to the expense of adding an extra L.
[/quote]
:lol:

My dad has a fancy-looking but cheap watch he calls his "Faux-lex." :D
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 25, 2012 08:31AM)
Clarke,
That is a good deal!
James

[quote]
On 2012-03-24 23:09, Zombie Magic wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-24 21:40, Xiqual wrote:
Thanks for mentioning Taiwan is not China, but tons of pirating goes on here. It goes on everywhere. It's not just the makers, it's the purveyors. In New York, you think those watches on the street are real Rolex?
[/quote]

Sorry James, I have to take issue with that statement. On vacation two years ago I bought A Rolex in NYC. KILLER deal on it, too. Nothing fake about it. They even went to the expense of adding an extra L.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Mar 25, 2012 10:03AM)
Since no one knows or supposably will know RS' "secrets" except RS subscribers, there will be counterfeits of ?
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Mar 25, 2012 03:47PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-24 13:44, sevenup wrote:

Here is something much more entertaining and it won't take as long as reading through all these threads.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=P_0kBD_4T6o&feature=endscreen
[/quote]

That is classic! Very, very well done! Who are those guys?
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 25, 2012 06:04PM)
"These counterfeits are counterfeit! How can you be sure? Hmmmmmmmm...."
James
YIIIIPPPPEEEEEE!!!!!!!


[quote]
On 2012-03-25 11:03, Atom3339 wrote:
Since no one knows or supposably will know RS' "secrets" except RS subscribers, there will be counterfeits of ?
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: sevenup (Mar 25, 2012 08:57PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-25 16:47, MaxfieldsMagic wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-24 13:44, sevenup wrote:

Here is something much more entertaining and it won't take as long as reading through all these threads.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=P_0kBD_4T6o&feature=endscreen
[/quote]

That is classic! Very, very well done! Who are those guys?
[/quote]
I don't know, but this one always cracks me up. When they do the dancing little person is where I can't stop LMAO.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 26, 2012 02:27AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-25 21:57, sevenup wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-25 16:47, MaxfieldsMagic wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-24 13:44, sevenup wrote:

Here is something much more entertaining and it won't take as long as reading through all these threads.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=P_0kBD_4T6o&feature=endscreen
[/quote]

That is classic! Very, very well done! Who are those guys?
[/quote]
I don't know, but this one always cracks me up. When they do the dancing little person is where I can't stop LMAO.
[/quote]
I was fine until they did the Six Million Dollar Man, slow-motion running bit...then I laughed out loud. I don't know how many people today would recognize the music and get the reference, but it cracked me up.
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Mar 26, 2012 08:50AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-25 16:47, MaxfieldsMagic wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-24 13:44, sevenup wrote:

Here is something much more entertaining and it won't take as long as reading through all these threads.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=P_0kBD_4T6o&feature=endscreen
[/quote]

That is classic! Very, very well done! Who are those guys?
[/quote]

Men in Coats.

http://youtu.be/l9gl5VT9Cac

Very popular in the UK.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Mar 26, 2012 06:52PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-26 03:27, FrenchDrop wrote:

I was fine until they did the Six Million Dollar Man, slow-motion running bit...then I laughed out loud. I don't know how many people today would recognize the music and get the reference, but it cracked me up.
[/quote]

Hell, I couldn't for the life of me remember where I had heard that theme song before. It came out in 1974 and I was 27 then but as far as I remember I couldn't stand the show. Anyway, I had never heard of, much less seen this act before and they are indeed hilarious! I wonder how many of the younger people got the parody of them puling a hat out of a rabbits a $ $! lol
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 26, 2012 08:03PM)
Phil, if you had seen the episode where Bigfoot was featured ( Col. Steve Austin was able to communicate with the beast ) you'd have become a huge fan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SZMn_711s4

After watching that clip, I think you'll buy he entire series.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 26, 2012 08:12PM)
Bigfoot was played by Andre the giant! I miss Andre, what an awesome person.
James


[quote]
On 2012-03-26 21:03, Zombie Magic wrote:
Phil, if you had seen the episode where Bigfoot was featured ( Col. Steve Austin was able to communicate with the beast ) you'd have become a huge fan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SZMn_711s4

After watching that clip, I think you'll buy he entire series.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Mar 26, 2012 08:13PM)
Since we're on a Steve Austin tangent, I'll cleverly attempt to make it look a little more on-topic: I remember an episode where he went undercover as a magician! He did an illusion where used his bionic powers to toss around a box like it was empty, even though his lovely assistant was in it. :lol: I wonder if Mark Wilson consulted on that episode...seems like he was the main consulting magician for TV around that time.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Mar 26, 2012 09:23PM)
Real Secrets just sent an e-mail verifying addresses. They are shipping in a week.

I feel like a kid waiting for mail order magic back in the 60's. I'm SO EXCITED about this project!!
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 27, 2012 01:23AM)
Me TOO!!!
YIIIIPPPEEEEE!!!!!
James
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 27, 2012 02:17AM)
Initially I kept my focus on RS and did not intend to get involved in bickering or needing to defend myself from personal attacks simply for stating my opinion. I said from the beginning that I did not doubt that the material would be great, I just like to know what I am buying and who I am buying from. The idea is cool but risky, much like a lot of other things as well. I just prefer to be more informed with what I buy. I have a lot of great material already so I don't really need any more now, although we magicians can never get enough it seems. Some have contacted me as well and provided some reassurance that this is a legit company which I don't doubt as I said, I just prefer to know what and whom I am buying from. That is all. So if I offended RS or anyone else I would like to apologize, which is something I rarely do online. I have a right to my opinion and I stand by it. That said, my opinion is only based on what I know currently, which is about the same as anyone else knows. The lack of information is the problem and at the same time the marketing pitch.

So there is not much anyone can do except speculate, which also generates buzz and discussion as stated. RS seem to be decent people and again I apologize for making any assumptions that may not be true, but that is expected with such a lack of information. I am still on the fence and time is running out so I doubt I will be subscribing at this time. Maybe later, and if they did have back issues I certainly would consider it then. Sometimes opinions can turn into personal attacks but that is the nature of the forums. So to those who ordered I hope you enjoy it and that it turns out well, and we will have to take your word for it. I have no hard feelings towards RS or anyone in this thread so I just wanted to squash the beef.

I was simply stating my opinion regarding the "buisness" aspects of it all. I prefer to buy material after reading detailed reviews so it did not work for me personally. Maybe later on I will try it, or the 2nd year if possible I don't know. Either way, to those that ordered I hope enjoy it and that it lives up to the hype. It certainly does sound mysterious and exciting.
Message: Posted by: Sean Macfarlane (Mar 27, 2012 04:21AM)
Nice one Sirbrad.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Mar 27, 2012 04:35AM)
Sirbrad,
You are a big person for that inspiring,intelligent post. I actually feel that if we were all in a room having a party we would, for the most part, have a great time. Online interaction is difficult at best, and sometimes meanings get construed.
Thanks for posting your thoughts,
James
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Mar 27, 2012 05:41AM)
I am glad you appreciated it, as I said in a previous post "a wise man changes his mind a fool never". Yeah the problem with forums is that you cannot hear tone or recognize sarcasm sometimes, and a lot of stuff gets misconstrued and then the never-ending arguments start. That is why I left the thread as it was a wast of time arguing about "nothing". You are either ordering or not and that is pretty much it. Nothing else said really matters, it is all just time filler. I don't really take anything seriously online because as you said we are a lot different in person. Or as I said before we have alter egos that we use just for entertainment purposes or to play devil's advocate. But you also have to know when to stop, and be open to change if you really do feel a certain way. I always keep an open mind even if I am against something.

Supporters will praise it and haters will bash it. I am not really either, I am actually leaning more towards supporting the project. My only gripe was the business part. But that also could change and improve. So I will give RS the benefit of the doubt. It is tough to generate discussion about something that you don't know what it is, and can't talk about once you do. I never saw a thread like this so at least it is unique and intriguing at the same time. I want to order RS just out of pure curiosity alone. But I already have way too much magic. But we'll see.
Message: Posted by: Rich-Entertainment (Mar 27, 2012 08:07AM)
I have tried to become a member of this opportunity but every step of the way Real Secrets have been unhelpfull.


I signed up late feburary and then got a full refund stating I cancelled my recurring payment, which I did not.

I was told to sign up again. So I cancelled my original recurring payment and signed up again.

I then got an email stating that I cancled that payment, I then proved to them that the cancellation was for the original payment (by screenshots and by Paypal ID's)
I was then told that they would look in to it for me and let me know.

A week later they told me that due to "My repeated attempts to alter the terms has kicked your application out of the system again." and to "Be aware that spaces for membership are not unlimited, and each time you get kicked from the system you move to the end of a soon to be finite line"

I explained to them that I was just following what they requested and gave ample screen shots to prove that the payments were still set up. Asked them to see what else I could do.

I heard nothing for over a week so I chased it up and was told that the payment was still cancelled so that when the automatic "application" thing happens I would not be included.

I have sent several emails to them trying to rectify this matter and at no step along the way have they been helpfull. I was quite excited about this whole idea and was very up for it but now I have several hesitations that I want to be involved with people who work in this manor.

As of now they still have my money, Paypal is still set to Auto-Pay next year and they still say that "Your continued changes make it challenging to give you quality service." and that "If the auto renewal is modified again we will be unable to accommodate further applications". All this I take as very accusational and all I have done is to try and join their service under their terms.

Just wondered if anyone else out there has received this kind of service.

..... no doubt now I bring it to an open forum real secrets will return none of my emails and then remove me from their system for being troublesome when all I have done is exactly what they have asked.
Message: Posted by: BatsMagic (Mar 27, 2012 08:32AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-27 09:07, Rich-Entertainment wrote:
I have tried to become a member of this opportunity but every step of the way Real Secrets have been unhelpfull.
[/quote]

Sorry to hear that- hopefully this is just a "Start Up" problem!



[quote]
On 2012-03-26 22:23, Zombie Magic wrote:
Real Secrets just sent an e-mail verifying addresses. They are shipping in a week.

I feel like a kid waiting for mail order magic back in the 60's. I'm SO EXCITED about this project!!
[/quote]

Hmmmm.... So far I have not gotten the same message. Hope that doesn't mean trouble for me. I don't know why it would be trouble- I haven't caused any problems for them at all!