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Topic: Roy mauled by white tiger—"In critical condition"
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Oct 4, 2003 12:25AM)
[url=http://www.redtailboa.net/news_index770.html]Tiger Attacks Las Vegas Magician Roy Horn[/url]

LAS VEGAS (AP)—A tiger attacked magician Roy Horn of the duo "Siegfried & Roy" during a Friday night performance at The Mirage hotel-casino, authorities said.

Roy was attacked at the throat, said Clark County Fire spokesman Bob Leinbach. He was taken to University Medical Center; Leinbach did not know his condition.

The illusionists, who put on one of the most well-known and expensive Las Vegas shows with their signature white tigers and lions, signed a lifetime contract with the Mirage in 2001.

Fishbachler, 61, and 56-year-old Roy Uwe Ludwig Horn have performed together in Las Vegas for more than 30 years. They opened at the Mirage hotel-casino in February 1990.
Message: Posted by: Alikzam (Oct 4, 2003 12:35AM)
Wow. That's scary that something like that happen. I guess that's what you get for using Lions and Tigers and Bears oh my! Er, forget the bears. But ya. Hope he gets better soon.
Message: Posted by: redstreak (Oct 4, 2003 12:43AM)
Yeah, you can never really tame a tiger. Man, I hope he recovers.
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Oct 4, 2003 12:44AM)
[url=http://news.google.com/news?q=%2BRoy+%2B%22Las+Vegas%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&sa=N&scoring=d]Click here for the latest updates on new about Roy[/url]
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Oct 4, 2003 12:55AM)
I'm sure he could use everyone's prayers.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Oct 4, 2003 01:11AM)
I heard it was the first performance for the tiger. Hang in Roy, we all know you are tough...
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Oct 4, 2003 01:35AM)
The news has just announced that the reports of it being the tiger's first performance were incorrect.

Roy is now expected to live. The shows in the immediate future have been canceled, for now.
Message: Posted by: JAEIII (Oct 4, 2003 01:54AM)
Our prayers are with him.
Message: Posted by: Jem (Oct 4, 2003 02:40AM)
My thoughts & prayers are with him.
Message: Posted by: Steve Brooks (Oct 4, 2003 03:27AM)
Like any living creature, cats are often unpredictable. They, like people have various mood swings, can become uneasy or frightened for a variety of reasons.

I certainly wish the best for all concerned. :nod:
Message: Posted by: inidyls (Oct 4, 2003 09:33AM)
[quote]
On 2003-10-04 02:35, Scott Cram wrote:
The news has just announced that the reports of it being the tiger's first performance were incorrect.

Roy is now expected to live. The shows in the immediate future have been canceled, for now.
[/quote]
I just seen S@R not that long ago and he did bring out a new tiger and he said he's just a couple of months old and he is going to try to work him into the show and he said quote unquote, "He is still pretty nervous so I'll just show him off right now soon you'll be able to see him in the show when he gets a little older."

Then he started talking about how they are almost extinct and showed a movie of how they raised them through the years. I just wonder if that's the same tiger that attacked him?
Message: Posted by: Reis O'Brien (Oct 4, 2003 10:12AM)
I'm not a big S&R fan, but my heart goes out to him. This has got to be tough. I guess this is why most magicians stick with bunnies!

Good luck Roy!
Message: Posted by: Steve Friedberg (Oct 4, 2003 10:31AM)
I tried logging on to their website; it's either down, or it's being deluged with hits from people wanting to know more.
Message: Posted by: ChopCup (Oct 4, 2003 10:39AM)
Let's pray for this fellow Magi!!!
Message: Posted by: RobertBloor (Oct 4, 2003 11:28AM)
Scott,

And to the moderators here at The Magic Café...

In a critical situation like this, SARMOTI, their cast and crew, friends and families, should all be in our thoughts and prayers.

However, I need an answer here and Scott, I want it from you...

[b]Where did you see that Roy was in "Beyond" critical condition[/b] as your subject title says? I have yet to read anywhere that he was "beyond" critical condition.

Scott, could you give us an answer? Otherwise, would one of the moderators mind changing the title of this post?

That's how rumors get started. That type of sensationalism is irresponsible.

My best to the SARMOTI family.

Robert Bloor
Message: Posted by: JAEIII (Oct 4, 2003 02:02PM)
I also saw where Roy was in "Beyond Critical". This title was given last night and early this morning only hours after it happened, Roy is now in critical, but stable condition.

This post was created last night after it first happend.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Oct 4, 2003 02:24PM)
I was out riding with a woman this morning who knows S & R and she said that they do not raise the young tigers themselves: they have other handlers who do that. The upshot is that Friday may have been the first time Roy worked with that particular tiger. I feel bad for him, but if that's true it is an unwise way to handle wild, dangerous animals.
Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Oct 4, 2003 03:09PM)
I don't think much of using animals this way. It's wrong and using a great creature to further your career...I turned down the offer for this show recently while in Vegas for this same reason. Tigers are not doves, they are killing machines and although trained can not be faulted for reverting to their instinctive behavior.

I do, however, have much compassion for my fellow perfomer. He has entertained many thousands more than I ever will and he will remain in our families' prayers. I'm sure we all wish him well and a speedy recovery.
Message: Posted by: JAEIII (Oct 4, 2003 04:05PM)
A speaker for the magic duo said that the tiger that attacked Roy has been in the show for a few years. Roy did tell the audience that the tiger was making his debut, but this is scripted and he says that about the tiger in every show.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 4, 2003 04:09PM)
All of our hats off to you Roy. We hope you the very best. God bless you.

The Magic Café.
Message: Posted by: Kevin Ridgeway (Oct 4, 2003 05:39PM)
Latest news is the show has been cancelled through Christmas. I had really hoped to hear he would recover faster than that.
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Oct 4, 2003 06:49PM)
My local news station said that he was in "Beyond Critical Condition", so Scott's title was correct at the time he posted it. :devilish:
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 4, 2003 07:11PM)
My thoughts turn to S as well. Having to manage with his partner in the hospital...wondering about what happened and how to continue around the cats.
Message: Posted by: Twisted_Reality (Oct 4, 2003 07:20PM)
The thing is that both these gentlemen are professionals and they realize the danger of working with such animals. I am confident that when Roy is feeling better and has rehabilitated 100% that both he and his partner will continue to work with the cats and other animals in their show. They may, however, train more personally with the cats to form a more trusting relationship.
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Oct 4, 2003 08:10PM)
Updates[list][*]Roy had more surgery this afternoon, including brain surgery to fix broken veins that take blood to the brain. Doctors are saying, "pray as hard as you know how to pray."[*]The Mirage is considering closing the show permanently.[*]Roy wasn't attacked randomly. According to many audience members, the tiger, for some unknown reason, was headed into the audience, and Roy threw himself in the way. Roy may actually be a hero. (Even if this isn't the case, it's nice to know that this is how some audience members will be remembering it!)[/list]
Message: Posted by: Mya Angel (Oct 4, 2003 08:52PM)
[quote]
On 2003-10-04 04:27, Steve Brooks wrote:
Like any living creature, cats are often unpredictable. They, like people have various mood swings, can become uneasy or frightened for a variety of reasons.

[/quote]
"Tiger training is like race car driving, like boxing," he said when he announced his plans to retire. "You have to be really on top all the time. It's not possible to feel not so good one day... There has to be the time to say, that's it."

"Every show is always a risk for me," he said. "How long can you take that? There are always young tigers."

Gunther Gebel-Williams
Message: Posted by: M. Perk (Oct 4, 2003 08:55PM)
Last night Fox News had one of their Fox News Alerts and the reporter said sources close to Roy said he was beyond critical. I believe that changed in the morning.
Message: Posted by: Jordini (Oct 4, 2003 09:00PM)
OK, to clear up any confusion about the show being the tiger's first show, that is not true. This was reported by people who saw the show, because Roy told them that the tiger was nine years old and it was it's first show, but that's only part of the act.

It was a veteran tiger, which is actually a lot scarier, because I'm sure it's done that show hundreds of times. As far as the show goes, the latest I heard was that it was cancelled indefinitely. It's really quite sad. I remember seeing them when I was about eight years old, (around the time I first started to get into magic).

*EDIT I just found out that it was his 59th birthday on the day that he was attacked. It's really sad.
Message: Posted by: RobertBloor (Oct 4, 2003 09:47PM)
Thanks for the clarification on his "beyond" critical.

It sounds like the media was using that as their tease for the story.

Still in poor taste if you ask me to do a play on the name of the show in this situation.

But thank you for the clarification and again, my prayers to SARMOTI.

Robert Bloor
Message: Posted by: dAvId tOnG (Oct 4, 2003 10:08PM)
I felt really sad over such incident in Las Vegas. S&R is one of the shows that I hoped to watch when I am in Vegas and I really pray and hope that Roy will recover soon and they can continue to perform in Mirage.

Let us all give him our prayers for his speedy recovery...
Message: Posted by: mghia (Oct 5, 2003 09:35AM)
It is too bad it happened. I hope he will recover quickly. My heart goes out to all who lost their jobs as well.

These are wild animals and this animal went for the neck just as if it was attacking prey. You can not breed out this instinct.

This is a sad reminder that they can never let their guard down. Sadly this must have occurred. On that one SARMONTI special you see they treated their animals like house cats allowing them to roam free. I am sure they were aware that the big cats could be playful one moment and dangerous the next. I will never fully understand how they adapt to show business with the lights, the pyro, and the noise of the audience. One would think they would act out or get freaked more often.

I feel they have used the white tiger for their financial gain for too long. Who would they really be without all those tigers in their show? Ask anyone who they are and most lay people will say, "Those guys with the tigers right?"

I am not saying these two do not LOVE their tigers. They have great respect and put a lot of care into those big cats. But the claim that they were doing it to educate the public and save an endangered species, never sat well with me. It is hard to believe when you see their home/lifestyle and the cost of admission to the show. They have profited from the use of big cats in their show. The truth is that they could NEVER save this species in the wild. Any cat raised in captivity, especially white tigers, can not be reintroduced into their native habitat and expect to survive.

Discovery Channel just ran a special on releasing Asian tigers into the African lands but they had no clue what to do for the first few months to survive and had to be "taught". But for a "white" they would be "done in" by humans before they got a chance to learn how to survive on their own. These show animals that are raised at birth just would have a slim chance to be reintroduced.

I have not heard of any programs Siegfried and Roy were involved in trying to reestablish the wild population of white tigers. It would appear they only have been breeding them for the use in their shows and zoo. I am not saying they were not planning a preserve or something, but all these years I have not heard of what they were doing besides breeding to save them in the wild. I would have liked to hear about their efforts if they were. Not hearing of any plans, it felt to me that they were profiting from the rarity over being humanitarians.

It is a controversial thought. Does one save a species from extinction even if it means the animal can only live in a cage to be looked at, or a preserve much smaller than its native habitat? Or was it just the species time to vanish and nature should be left to take its course? (Darwin)

Did anyone see the Simpson’s episodes where the tigers took their revenge on the duo for making them do tricks in the show? They have been assuming this would have happened years ago. I think I have seen at least three episodes that have S&R in the show with angry tigers (and white at that).

Get well soon Mr. Horn!
Message: Posted by: Ian Rowland (Oct 5, 2003 10:30AM)
I think this is a great tragedy, and I can only express my sincere wishes that Roy is able to recover from this terrible incident. It must be a wretched time for Siegfried and for all concerned. Let's give them whatever kind of support and good wishes we can. It all helps.

I saw S&R's show when I was in Vegas in June. I'd heard so much about it for so many years. It was easy to see why it was hailed as the biggest and most spectacular show of its kind, and the huge audience all had a great time.

This is very sad indeed.
Message: Posted by: Corey K (Oct 5, 2003 03:19PM)
I couldn't believe it when I heard this news from my mother. I immediately went online and to my disappointment the rumor was true. I am truly saddened by this news, I just saw the show in July while at the S.A.M. Convention and to think that this happened really breaks my heart. My support goes out to the SARMOTI family in hopes for a speedy and full recovery.
Message: Posted by: irossall (Oct 5, 2003 03:34PM)
According to the trainer of the tiger that mauled Roy, the most likely reason that the tiger went for Roy's throat was that Roy slipped to the floor, making the tiger tower above Roy's head. Evidently when working with the big cats it is a sign of subordinence if the cat's head is above the handler, therefore, Roy was no longer in charge but was now in a submissive role.

I do know that working with birds (I have one) the handler, when working with a new bird, should keep the bird's head above their own in order not to make the bird feel inferior or afraid of the handler. My only thoughts at this moment is for a full recovery of Roy and my heart and prayers go out to him and his loved ones.

Iven :patty:
Message: Posted by: martini (Oct 5, 2003 03:52PM)
While we all are praying for a speedy recovery for Roy, and the power of prayer is an amazing thing in itself, we should also consider the many people of the Sarmoti family who kept the show running, the stage set, and the props working.

According to the CNN news this morning and MSN today they have been told to look for other work. While they were behind the limelight, they are never the less still without jobs at this time. Steve, would you be willing to take up a collection for these people through the Café? These assistants are not under big contracts, in fact they only get paid when they work, and right now they could use some help. We can not forget the assistants and backstage workers even though we are praying for Roy's speedy recovery.

All the Best
Marty
Message: Posted by: Moffmo (Oct 5, 2003 04:47PM)
I couldn't believe this when I read it in the paper this morning.

My thoughts are with Roy and his family.

Apparently, now that the tiger has a taste for blood, it is very likely that it will attack again. They may have to put it down or something.

Matt
Message: Posted by: Chris Aguilar (Oct 5, 2003 05:13PM)
I was reading a newspaper report that said that even after the attack, Roy was admonishing the handlers not to hurt the tiger. Even critically injured, his class comes through.

Get well Roy.
Message: Posted by: Dennis Michael (Oct 5, 2003 06:09PM)
I heard Roy will recover, there are a lot of news sites that carry this story.

Our prayers are with you Roy!
Message: Posted by: hackmonkey (Oct 5, 2003 06:21PM)
I do wish Roy a speedy recovery, but I hope that the tiger is not put down. That is punishing an animal for being itself, they are not domesticated animals like dogs.
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Oct 5, 2003 07:15PM)
[quote]
On 2003-10-05 17:47, Moffmo wrote:

They may have to put it down or something.

Matt
[/quote]
This is a WHITE TIGER. They won't put it down (and I DON'T mean by saying "Bad Kitty!"). First of all, it is endangered, and second it is worth WAY too much money. :devilish:
Message: Posted by: johnr733 (Oct 5, 2003 07:26PM)
Actually I think they will terminate the tiger in the end, unfortunate as that is. Roy was a superstar in our art, and I wish him a speedy recovery.
Message: Posted by: mghia (Oct 5, 2003 08:44PM)
From the AP wire, author is Adam Goldman:

[quote]
Horn told the tiger to lie down. When it refused, Horn tapped the cat on the nose with a microphone to get its attention. The animal grabbed at Horn's arm, causing the entertainer to stumble.

The tiger then lunged at Horn, who tried to beat the animal away with the microphone. Audience members said the tiger dragged Horn off the stage by the neck. The attack barely missed severing Horn's carotid artery.
[/quote]
See? I guess he took for granted that this was a wild animal. Bop me in the nose with your mic I might attack too. I feel bad for him being attacked but it seems to make sense if he really bonked his nose.
Message: Posted by: Scott Ocheltree (Oct 5, 2003 09:50PM)
I am deeply saddened by this event. I wish Mr. Horn a speedy and full recovery. Now is not the time to second guess his handling of the animal in this situation. He has more experience with these types of animals than anyone on this forum ever will.

Nor is this the time or place to debate the ethics of using wild animals in this capacity. It is a very complex subject, and again one I am sure that Siegfried and Roy know more about than any of us. My thoughts and prayers are with him, and all of the Sarmoti family.
Message: Posted by: Mistro (Oct 5, 2003 10:24PM)
Whoa, I read in the paper about this tragedy and was very shocked. They have worked with tigers for many years and tigers are like pets to them. Wonder why all of a sudden the tiger attacked Roy? Weird.
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Oct 6, 2003 12:16AM)
According to latest Las Vegas news, here's the updates:[list][*]Roy is paralyzed on one side for now. In order to help his brain better repair itself, they've had to induced a comatose state. It's the best thing they can do for him right now. He's on a ventilator.[*]The MGM will be announcing their plans concerning the show tomorrow morning. They are expected to announce that they'll help find new jobs for the cast, give them recommendations, and so on.[*]The tiger just missed biting the carotid artery, the main artery that takes blood to the brain.[/list]Our best wishes go with you, Roy.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Oct 6, 2003 01:32AM)
Sad, sad news...I hope he recovers completely.

:cry:
Message: Posted by: Pablo Tejero (Oct 6, 2003 04:22AM)
My prayers are also with him. Come on Roy, you will be soon with us again.

All the best magic,

Pablo Tejero :bikes:
Message: Posted by: thehawk (Oct 6, 2003 05:27AM)
Very sad indeed but those are the risks working with any wild animal. Hopefully he recovers quickly, everyone will be pulling for him. :cuteangel:
Message: Posted by: Steve Friedberg (Oct 6, 2003 07:07AM)
From SiegfriedandRoy.com:

[quote]
All of us in the Siegfried & Roy family are deeply saddened by Roy's injury at last Friday's performance. Roy remains in stable but critical condition at University Medical Center in Las Vegas.

For more than four decades, I have had the great privilege of standing at the side of this remarkable man, and I will continue to do so during this very challenging time. We are grateful and overwhelmed with the tremendous support we have received from around the world, and ask for your continued prayers and reflections.
[/quote]
(Signed) Siegfried
Message: Posted by: Hideo Kato (Oct 6, 2003 08:05AM)
I don't know the English words to express my feeling, so let me write it in Japanese:

Roy-san no jikowo kiite, iishirenu kyougakuwo kanjimashita. Itsumo anatano stagewa hanayakadeshita. Ano satagega mata mirareruyou inotte imasu.

Hideo Kato
Message: Posted by: Steve Friedberg (Oct 6, 2003 08:52AM)
From the Las Vegas Review-Journal:

[quote]
The official status of superstar magician Roy Horn never changed from "critical but stable" Saturday, one day after he was badly mauled by a white tiger during a performance at The Mirage.

But among his circle of friends and colleagues, the cautious optimism that first emerged late Friday night took a downward turn over the course of the day.

Horn's initial surgery at University Medical Center Trauma Center ended about 11:30 p.m. Friday. A hospital source said Horn had to be resuscitated during that surgery.

Horn, who turned 59 Friday, was moved to another part of the hospital about 12:40 a.m. Saturday.

A hospital source said Horn subsequently suffered a stroke and was returned to surgery about 9:30 a.m. to relieve severe pressure on his brain.

MGM Mirage spokesman Alan Feldman declined to discuss specifics of Horn's condition or treatment. "Updates on an hour-by-hour basis are not going to lead to clarity," he said.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Mistro (Oct 6, 2003 09:54AM)
Could this be the END of Siegfried and Roy. :question: :bawl:
Message: Posted by: waveman (Oct 6, 2003 10:58AM)
I hear he is doing better, wiggling toes and fingers.
Get better soon Roy...

:dancing:
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Oct 6, 2003 11:00AM)
[quote]
On 2003-10-06 10:54, Mistro wrote:
Could this be the END of Siegfried and Roy. :question: :bawl:
[/quote]
Unfortunately, the only answer we have right now is the less-than-satisfying, "Wait and see."
Message: Posted by: JAEIII (Oct 6, 2003 12:14PM)
To share my thoughts on the fate of the tiger, the chances of them "putting it down" are slim to none. You can't kill a tiger for being a tiger. Roy does not want this either. I just saw on the news, that the first thing Roy said before fainting, "He's a good cat. Please don't kill the cat."

The worst thing I believe will happen is that the tiger is moved elsewhere, perhaps to a zoo.

At this early time, it is probably dumb to speculate what will happen. Time will tell all.

As for the fate of "Siegfried and Roy," I heard that they have cancelled the show for good, and "let go" of all of the employees this weekend. I would love to be wrong about this, but this is what I heard on the news. :(
Message: Posted by: Magicbarry (Oct 6, 2003 12:28PM)
Well, that's not quite what they said. They said they were cancelling the show "indefinitely" and advising the employees to seek other work. If S&R ever perform again, it will be many, many months before they do so—people will need to find other ways to support themselves.
Message: Posted by: Mark Rough (Oct 6, 2003 01:02PM)
[quote]
On 2003-10-04 16:09, KingStardog wrote:
I don't think much of using animals this way. It's wrong and using a great creature to further your career.
[/quote]
I agree with you, BUT, and a big but at that, Siegfried and Roy have done more to preserve these animals than many international organizations combined. A huge amount of their money has gone into breeding programs that will keep these animals with us for generations longer than they can survive on their own. Give 'em a break man.

Mark
Message: Posted by: JAEIII (Oct 6, 2003 02:03PM)
Barry,

Perhaps the news station I was listening to was incorrect. They informed that the show was closing for good and that all of the employees were "let go" over the weekend.

I have also heard others say "indefinitely." I was just reporting what I heard. Let's hope the station I was listening to was wrong. :no:
Message: Posted by: hkwiles (Oct 6, 2003 02:16PM)
It is often said "after falling from a horse (bike) whatever, the best advice is to get straight back on." My advice in this case would be to "learn your lesson well." Once a tiger always a tiger. My thoughts are with all concerned.

Howard
Message: Posted by: thehawk (Oct 6, 2003 03:17PM)
I also heard that Roy had a stroke after the attack.
Message: Posted by: Magicbarry (Oct 6, 2003 03:44PM)
JAEIII,

It sounds like the station must have overstated things, or misinterpreted what was said. It sounds like they heard the same things that have been reported by other sources, but took the comments from Mirage as being more negative than they were.

Technically, I suppose, the staff all have been let go, though the Mirage is still only saying that the show's been cancelled for an indefinite period. That's really all they can say, they don't know what's going to happen with the act.

I'll continue to be confident that Roy will pull through. And I believe that, at some point, Siegfried and Roy will appear on stage together again. Whether Roy's able to be a regular performer or not remains to be seen, from the sounds of it, there will be some permanent damage. The only thing we know for sure is that it's going to take time for him to get back into action again. And that's all the Mirage knows. It might take a couple of years, realistically.

Hopefully it will happen. I'm sure we'd all love to be in the audience for Roy's comeback show.
Message: Posted by: Billgussen (Oct 6, 2003 04:37PM)
[quote]
On 2003-10-06 09:05, Hideo Kato wrote:
I don't know the English words to express my feeling, so let me write it in Japanese:

Roy-san no jikowo kiite, iishirenu kyougakuwo kanjimashita. Itsumo anatano stagewa hanayakadeshita. Ano satagega mata mirareruyou inotte imasu.

Hideo Kato
[/quote]
That's nice, Hideo. Here's what he said:

"Roy, when I heard of your accident, I experienced an indescribable shock. Your stage shows were always spectacular, and I pray to see you standing on that stage again."

And from me personally, my best to Roy and everyone in the cast and crew.

Bill
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 6, 2003 04:58PM)
Folks,

Let's not forget his partner. How would you feel if your partner (business, life, significant houseplant or other) was in critical condition? He is alone now, without his friend, facing the press and those cats and an uncertain future.

Best wishes to Siegfried...and his friend in the hospital.

-Jon
Message: Posted by: Mistro (Oct 6, 2003 05:46PM)
I've asked this question in another post but I'm going to say it again in this post. Is this the END of Siegfried and Roy? :question: Hopefully not, but I think it is.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 7, 2003 02:17AM)
Roy is able to communicate. I have confidence he will make it.
Message: Posted by: Mark Rough (Oct 7, 2003 08:07AM)
It looks like they've finally called off the show permanently. I can't tell you all how sad this makes me. I don't perform with animals or do big illusions but I had a lot of appreciation for what Siegfried and Roy did in their shows. They were mythic performances, the like of which I have never seen before. And I don't think it likely we'll ever see anything like them again. Both are in my thoughts a lot lately.

Mark
Message: Posted by: dAvId tOnG (Oct 7, 2003 10:09AM)
[i]Las Vegas Review Journal[/i] mentioned that they will close it permanently. Roy is paralyzed on his left side.

Very sad. Though I've not seen their show live, it's something that I wanted to for a long, long time. It's really a pity that their dynamic career ended just like that.

Pray hard that Roy will recover from this tragedy and they can still host the World Magic Seminar in Vegas next year. We are all hoping for his comeback show in Vegas and rest assure, he will have all our support!
Message: Posted by: Dr. TORA (Oct 7, 2003 10:12AM)
This is probably one of the most terrible disasters of the magic history. Although I have not seen them perform live—only from the recordings—we all know that they are the living legends of magic, being the richest of all. I hope the duo may go on with the shows and I may have chance to see them perform. Maybe an Islamic prayer may work, I will pray for him.
:bawl: :bawl: :bawl:
Message: Posted by: Jeff007 (Oct 7, 2003 12:12PM)
I believe it is true.

Devastating news, not only regarding the S&R show, but more importantly, just how bad Roy must really be...

Also, according to Steve Dacri, it was announced late last night that the show will never return. It is believed that Roy is paralyzed on the left side of his body and may never walk or even talk again. Personally, I am in tears here and can not believe this news. May God help Roy at this very impossible time.
Message: Posted by: Jordan Piper (Oct 7, 2003 01:12PM)
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet but I heard a rumour today that the real Roy died 10 years ago and the one that was attacked was a distant cousin who has had surgery to make him look like the original Roy. I'm sure it's just a load of **** but it just goes to show how the rumour mill gets going when something bad happens.
Message: Posted by: Jeff007 (Oct 7, 2003 01:41PM)
I don't want to be blunt...but you helping to carry on that silly rumor doesn't help in the slightest. :(
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Oct 7, 2003 02:00PM)
[quote]
On 2003-10-07 14:12, thekernel wrote:
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet but I heard a rumour today that the real Roy died 10 years ago and the one that was attacked was a distant cousin who has had surgery to make him look like the original Roy. I'm sure it's just a load of **** but it just goes to show how the rumour mill gets going when something bad happens.[/quote]
This is nothing more than a rumor. It was started by the late magician/puppeteer Barclay Shaw. Here in Vegas that particular rumor is called "Shaw's legacy".

Ignoring idiotic rumors, I do wish Roy the best. The sheer amount of well-wishers and support in Las Vegas right now is very encouraging.

Here are some great photos of tributes to Roy:

[url=http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/Oct-07-Tue-2003/photos/home.jpg]Signs on Siegfried & Roy's home entrance[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/Oct-06-Mon-2003/photos/home.jpg]Tribute at Siegfried & Roy Plaza[/url]
[url=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/en/100403royhorn&tmpl=sl&e=1]Yahoo's Siegfried & Roy slideshow[/url]
Message: Posted by: JAEIII (Oct 7, 2003 02:21PM)
I agree, bringing up such a dumb rumor is really pointless at this tragic time.
Message: Posted by: Steve Pellegrino (Oct 7, 2003 04:25PM)
I wanted to add a few comments to this thread, hopefully offering a different and educational perspective.

In almost 30 years of magic, I have had some incredible opportunities to work with the top names in the business. For several years I worked for Kirby VanBurch at the old Aladdin in Las Vegas in the Abracadabra show. For almost two of those years I was Kirby's animal handler, in charge of a couple of tigers, lions, leopards and a bear. I've trained a couple of exotic cats myself and have close to 1000 performances with live animals.

Until an offical statement as to what really happened between Roy and the tiger is released, everything is just speculation—even what I am about to say here.

Roy hitting the tiger with the microphone did not worsen the situation in anyway. The tigers are trained from when they are cubs that a quick smack on the nose with a stick hurts and that what they are doing at that moment is wrong. That along with "No" trains them to stop what they are doing at that moment. "No" is appropriate because if you are put in a troubled situation, that is what you would naturally say.

Saying "No" is usually all that's needed. The cat will usually stop. The stick and "No" are a common animal training technique and very effective. Many times it's the only thing that will save you or others in a bad situation. You will never be stronger than the cat, so you have to be dominant and smarter.

From what I know about S&R, as long as Roy is alive, the cat will not be destroyed. I've read in other places that the cat would have to be put down because it tasted human blood. That is simply not true. I've been bit by a leopard and a tiger and the cats were still used in the show. Both S&R have been bit in the past. At some point Roy will say it was his fault for what happened and would never put the blame on the cat.

S&R are wonderful people and it's hard to imagine this type of tragedy happening to them. I agree with what Penn said on the Larry King show last night that his mind cannot accept the fact that S&R will never perform again. We just have to wait and see.
Message: Posted by: jlibby (Oct 7, 2003 05:18PM)
I've read and heard lots of tributes from people who admire and respect S&R and all they've accomplished. I've never met them, but I wish them only the best.

Unfortunately, the loonies at PETA really know how to add insult to injury. [url=http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/10/7/125915.shtml]Read this[/url] to find out how truly obnoxious they are.

Joe L.
Message: Posted by: Emily Belleranti (Oct 7, 2003 06:26PM)
This is such a terrible tragedy... It's awful for such a legendary team to have to experience this. :bawl:

I first heard about this late Friday night in this forum. At first I thought this was just a rumor, but then I read it in the paper the next morning and realized it was true. I can certainly appreciate how Siegfried and Roy have contributed to this art, and my heart goes out to them and all affiliated with the show.

I do believe that Roy will make it, and I'll definitely keep him and Siegfried in my prayers.
Message: Posted by: Billgussen (Oct 7, 2003 06:44PM)
Jlibby, your newsmax.com website seems to have a very conservative bias to its news reporting. In other words, they seem to be using the information about the fax to raise ire in their readers toward liberal groups. I wouldn't trust that kind of news reporting, no matter what the editorial bias is.

Upon doing a Google news search, I found only one other article that mentions the fax, and it also mentions that PETA wished Roy a full recovery:

http://www.nynewsday.com/entertainment/nyc-etpeta3484426oct07,0,995768.story?coll=nyc-flash-headlines

It's a little more balanced than the newsmax.com article, but since I have never heard of New York Newsday, I'm not sure we should trust this source of information either.

The net is not your best source for news.

Bill
Message: Posted by: Thoughtreader (Oct 7, 2003 07:44PM)
I am sorry to report the following:

"We had one heck of a run," Bernie Yuman, longtime manager of Siegfried and Roy, said Monday after delivering the definitive word that the long-running show has closed for good.

Even before Roy was bitten onstage by one of the show tigers Friday, Siegfried Fischbacher and Yuman had maintained that as the illusionists aged, they would not change the format of the show to incorporate other magicians such as protégé Darren Romeo.

"I would say that's not something he will be considering," Yuman said of the 64-year-old Fischbacher. "It's over."

"Siegfried & Roy at The Mirage," as the show was officially known, was "one of the more complicated entertainment agreements you'll ever come across," Misiura noted.

In essence, Feld—the circus impresarios who tour Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus—produced the show and paid the 60 onstage performers. Siegfried and Roy were business partners analogous to A-list movie stars who form their own production companies and retain executive producer credit for their films.

MGM Mirage paid the stagehands and staff members such as ushers and cocktail servers. When the Siegfried & Roy show is on vacation, as it was scheduled to be after Nov. 25, The Mirage books the showroom with headliners...

Yuman acknowledged Horn's condition is such that the longtime Las Vegas entertainer won't be the Roy of old.

"Roy was one person then and he'll be another person now," said Yuman. Asked if that meant Horn won't be able to speak again, Yuman declined to go into details.

HOWEVER:

Roy Horn has suffered paralysis on his left side, according to a source at University Medical Center, where the entertainer remained Monday in critical condition.

Horn, who according to the source also suffered bone chips in his neck, has been able to communicate with doctors and perform some movements at their request.

On Sunday, the entertainer was able to move his right arm and right leg, said Bobby Baldwin, chief executive officer with Mirage Resorts. Horn was also able to move his left hand and left foot and give doctors the thumbs-up sign.

But a day after Baldwin and other friends, family and co-workers expressed hope in that bit of good news, show producers confirmed Monday that the stage show has closed permanently after 5,750 performances.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Oct 7, 2003 09:37PM)
Sad. One of my favorite memories shared with my father is when I was 17 years old, we went and saw S&R. The poster I bought is hung in Brad Burt's Magic Shop. There will never be another Siegfried and Roy. :devilish: :cry:
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Oct 7, 2003 11:41PM)
I just visited [url=http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/Oct-06-Mon-2003/photos/home.jpg]Siegfriend & Roy Plaza[/url] earlier this evening. The outpouring of support was incredible.

People were there taking pictures, writing their messages on the pad, and generally contemplating this unbelievable tragedy. Before this, I could usually walk right by S&R Plaza without seeing anyone else stop there. What a change!

Our best thoughts and wishes are with you, Roy!

{{{{{Roy}}}}}
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 8, 2003 04:14AM)
Here is the latest in news for AOL users: [url=http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20031006180409990002&_mpc=news%2e10%2e1]Click here![/url]

We love you Roy,

The Magic Café
Message: Posted by: Steve Friedberg (Oct 8, 2003 08:42AM)
[quote]
On 2003-10-07 19:44, Billgussen wrote:
http://www.nynewsday.com/entertainment/nyc-etpeta3484426oct07,0,995768.story?coll=nyc-flash-headlines

It's a little more balanced than the newsmax.com article, but since I have never heard of New York Newsday, I'm not sure we should trust this source of information either.
Bill
[/quote]

Bill: The link you posted does not lead to a story. BTW, Newsday is a very reputable metropolitan daily in the NYC area....kind of like the Oakland Tribune, in that it doesn't carry the name of the main city in the area on its masthead, but practices good journalism.
Message: Posted by: Magicbarry (Oct 8, 2003 09:57AM)
For the record, newsmax is generally NOT a good source of information—they're lacking in the area of journalistic integrity, and are more of a right-wing tabloid.

However, on this occasion, the story is corroborated by PETA themselves on their website:

http://www.peta.org/news/NewsItem.asp?id=2997

It's a shame that an organization can profess to have such high ideals, but can be so utterly sadistic.
Message: Posted by: Scott Ocheltree (Oct 8, 2003 10:08AM)
ABC News is quoting Siegfried in an interview with the German magazine, Bild, as saying their show will go on.

On Monday night Larry King had an interesting panel, including Penn Jillette, discussing Roy's attack. You can read the [url=http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0310/06/lkl.00.html]TRANSCRIPT HERE[/url].

Siegfried is scheduled to be on Larry King's show tonight (10/8/03).
Hopefully he will have good news for us. :thumbsup:
Message: Posted by: JAEIII (Oct 8, 2003 12:24PM)
A Message From David Copperfield.....

I'm still stunned, and enormously saddened about this incident. Sometimes, ours is a dangerous profession. For decades, Roy made the truly dangerous look easy and safe. I understand that the last thing he said before he lost consciousness was that the tiger must not be harmed in any way. Amazing. In the middle of a life-threatening crisis, his concern was for the animal. It's a heart-wrenching glimpse of Roy's enormous humanity, and a testament to the authenticity of his dedication to his animal sanctuary. Accidents are an inescapable part of life, unfortunately, and I join the magic community in praying for Roy's speedy and complete recovery.

******

LAS VEGAS, Oct. 8 — The co-star of the Las Vegas duo “Siegfried & Roy” said in an interview on Wednesday their show would go on despite his partner’s severe mauling by a tiger. Siegfried Fischbacher, whose partner Roy Horn was mauled on Friday, told Germany’s Bild newspaper Horn had given him a V-for-victory sign when he visited him, although doctors say it is unclear if the performer will make a full recovery.

THE GERMAN-BORN DUO’S popular “Siegfried & Roy” act would continue, Fischbacher told Bild.
“I’m sure he’s going to make a complete recovery,” said the 64-year-old illusionist. “He’s over the worst. When I went to visit Roy he gave me the victory sign.”
Fischbacher said that he and Roy, who was born in the northern German town of Nordenham, were not quitters and that they would come back fighting.
“What happened does not mean it’s ended,” Fischbacher told Bild. “Our show will go on. We’ve always been fighters. The history of ‘Siegfried & Roy’ is nowhere near its conclusion.”


I pray that this is true. If you would like to read the whole article:

[url=http://www.msnbc.com/news/975826.asp?vts=100820030936#BODY/]Click Here [/url]
Message: Posted by: leefoley3 (Oct 8, 2003 07:11PM)
I just wanted to reiterate what Scott has already said. Siegfried will be on Larry King's show tonight. It's his first TV interview since the terrifying incident. I think we should all try to tune in.

I would also like to add that I think all the assumptions and forwarded hear-says(rumors)posted in this thread are downright **** and in VERY POOR taste. It SHOULD be unbelievable in this world we live in, but, it's not. It happens all the time. Sad indeed.

My prayers and well wishes go to Siegfried, ROY, and all their family members, loved ones, and crew. May GOD bless and comfort you all.

Signed with a heavy heart, Lee Foley III. :( :cry: :(
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Oct 8, 2003 08:57PM)
Steve Wynn was just being interviewed live on [url=http://www.klas-tv.com/]Channel 8[/url] here in Las Vegas. He gave the full story as to how exactly the accident happened.

[url=http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1475112&nav=168XIQs2]Steve Wynn Gives Exclusive Interview[/url]
Gary Waddell, Anchor

(Oct. 8) -- Casino mogul Steve Wynn is one of the people who know Siegfried and Roy best. He is one of the duos closest of friends and hired the illusionists when he built The Mirage in 1990. He even built a special theater just for their show.

Wynn gave an exclusive interview to Eyewitness News Anchor, Gary Waddell on Wednesday. He says that what happened Friday night was a fluke, something that never should have occurred. And something that no one could have foreseen. He continued to say that Roy --- even as he was being carried off stage by the tiger -- was saying he didn't want anything to happen to the cat.

Wynn was in Idaho on Friday night when the incident happened on stage. But he was one of the first people called. He flew home to visit Roy in the hospital on Saturday morning. And then began the task of trying to figure out how something like this could happen.

Wynn said for sure that Montecore did not attack Roy Horn. He said that reports that Roy was attacked are false. That Montecore would never attack Roy. That in a way, the tiger was trying to protect him following a string of unfortunate events that led to the tiger carrying Roy of stage as if he were a cub.

As Roy was leading Montecore out to stage front on a leash, the cat became fasinated with woman in the front row of the audience with a bog hair-do.

Montecore moved closer to the woman who reached out to try and touch him under his chin. At that point Roy tried to re-gain the tiger's attention by pulling back on the leash and saying, "No, no, no, no. Come on, get up".

The tiger apparently wanted to continue looking at the woman with the hat. He then gently put his mouth in-between Roy's elbow and wrist as if to say, "No, I'm not ready to do what you want me to do yet." This behavior is similar to how a housecat might react -- a gentle warning -- without hurting the person it loves. Roy commanded the cat to release its grip by saying, "Release, release," several times.

Roy continued to pull on Montecore's leash not realizing that the cat had put its big paw behind one of his legs. He then fell backwards, lying flat on his back on the stage. Montecore then picked him up by the neck as if Roy was a wounded cub. Wynn says Montecore was acting to protect Roy.

Backstage, the cat tried to carry Roy into hits cage but stagehands managed to release Roy from the tiger by using a method with a fire extinguisher.

Wynn explained that during an actual lethal attack, a tiger would violently grab its prey by the neck, vigorously shakes its head snapping the neck of its prey. This is not what happened.
Message: Posted by: JAEIII (Oct 8, 2003 09:10PM)
I just finished watching Siegfried on Larry King Live. I found it to be a great interview. Very Emotional, however. It was good to hear from Siegfried.

I do have a question, however. As Larry King was ending, I quickly flipped channels and saw Rick Thomas finishing up an interview on MSNBC. I'll I heard him say was "Thank you," and then it ended. Does anyone know what he said? He is one person I have been curious to hear from, as he has tigers in his show. Did anyone see this interview?
Message: Posted by: inidyls (Oct 9, 2003 05:50AM)
Scott , great post.

It seems this is what everyone is saying that is close to Roy. Siegfried also said it's true that Roy had a stroke. I also think Siegfried is a class act for saying he'll never do a show by himself or with anybody else besides Roy.
Message: Posted by: Mark Rough (Oct 9, 2003 06:21AM)
I just finished watching Siegfried on the Today show this morning and find my self sitting in my classroom having a hard time not crying. (And that's saying a lot for me.) I find myself really lifted up by his optimism. My wife does call me the eternal optimist though.

I just wish there was something to do. I find myself incredibly p***** off at PETA, who I normally find myself aligned with, tired of the rumor mill, and wanting to do something productive. So obviously this is hitting me harder than it should. AAAAARGGH! Guess all I can do is keep praying.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Mark
Message: Posted by: Kathryn Novak (Oct 9, 2003 11:09AM)
Poor Roy. I never met S&R, but Roy is easily one of the bravest men I've heard of...to be carried off in a tiger's jaws and be worried about the tiger's safety! Roy must have been in a world of pain, and all he cared about was the tiger not getting hurt.

Montecore obviously cares for Roy as well, he just thought he was taking Roy out of a dangerous situation. I saw Siegfried last night on television, he said that Roy has the will of ten thousand men. At least he's moving and communicating with the doctors. Here's all my best to Roy for a speedy recovery.
Message: Posted by: Lee Darrow (Oct 9, 2003 02:19PM)
Swift recovery, Roy! Montecore's a beautiful creature. It would be such a waste to see him put down for trying to take you out of what he considered a dangerous situation—if, indeed, that's what he thought he was doing.

And I trust your partner's word on that, for certain.

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
Message: Posted by: Evan Williams (Oct 9, 2003 06:04PM)
Very sad indeed. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but I have found out some new news about why the tiger did what he did. They are saying that when some people came onto the stage, this was not part of the act and it startled the tiger. The tiger then dragged Roy off of the stage to protect him, not to attack. They are saying that if it was an attack, Roy would be dead.

:( Evan
Message: Posted by: WolfgangWollet (Oct 9, 2003 08:39PM)
I watched the Larry King interview as well and I feel that Siegfried and Barry at times were really fighting with tears, so I hope that the situation is not more severe than it already appears.

All the best to Roy and his partner Siegfried!
Message: Posted by: Kathryn Novak (Oct 10, 2003 02:26AM)
OK, I'd like to put all of this into a nutshell, with the correct facts about what actually happened. So if what I post next is wrong, will someone please correct me? Thanks in advance. :)

Roy was doing the show onstage. Roy slipped and fell. Roy accidentally put himself in a submissive position, whereas he's usually in a dominant role. Mantecore gets concerned about Roy, and thinks he may be in trouble, so he picks Roy up in his mouth and carries him off the stage away from the trouble. Correct, or am I wrong?
Message: Posted by: Dr. TORA (Oct 10, 2003 04:46AM)
Yes Kathryn,

I have talked to some animal trainers and they are in harmony with you. The tiger tried to save Roy but he was not trained to do so. If he attacked Roy as you said, he would never have survived and nobody—even Siegfried—could have saved him. He left Roy to Siegfried in order that he may help Roy, Siegfried did not save him from Montecore...You are really right about it...

My best wishes are for Roy till he recovers.
Message: Posted by: MagiCat (Oct 10, 2003 07:28AM)
I found [url=http://klastv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1475112&nav=168XIQs2]this article[/url] written on October 8th to be a very detailed description of the events that unfolded in a very short time. It's from a TV station in Las Vegas.

MagiCat :subtrunk:
Message: Posted by: Review King (Oct 10, 2003 08:14AM)
Siegfried is saying the tiger tried to save Roy. Damage control for the future of the show is in full swing.
Message: Posted by: Grandillusionsmagic (Oct 10, 2003 09:04AM)
I read Roy said his "first words" after being taken off breathing support. I hope and pray for his fast recovery, and this is great news.
Message: Posted by: thehawk (Oct 10, 2003 09:09AM)
I firmly believe you will see him again on the stage at least one more time. :cuteangel: :cuteangel:
Message: Posted by: Magicbarry (Oct 10, 2003 09:31AM)
One question still troubles me:

Why has The Mirage been so quick to cancel the show permanently?

With Roy's condition and future ability to perform still up in the air, why make this decision only days after the attack? They'd already cancelled the show through Christmas and told the staff to find other work—there really seems to be no need to make a permanent decision.

At the very least, they could have waited a couple of weeks before making this announcement, if for nothing else than the sake of compassion. This has been a devastating time for both Siegfried and Roy, and telling them their show is gone for good is one of the worst things someone can do to them right now.

It just baffles me.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Oct 10, 2003 10:47AM)
Because The Mirage is a corporation whose primary goal is to make money.

Roy, according to many reports, is partially paralyzed due to the stroke he suffered last Saturday. His recovery from both the attack and the stroke will be a long and arduous process requiring much time in physical therapy. At the moment no one knows how long it will be before Roy is able to return to the rigors of a full evening show, or even if he will ever be able to do so.

The Mirage simply can't wait around with a major venue in their property sitting dark. Unfortunately the theatre was specifically built for S&R's show. For another show to be mounted in there it will have to be heavily modified if not completely rebuilt. At this point it is more economically feasible for The Mirage to shut the show down and move forward.

It's nothing personal, simply business.
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Oct 10, 2003 12:05PM)
There was a very touching moment yesterday when Gloria Estefan (currently performing at Caesar's Palace) visited Roy yesterday. Gloria herself had a long hospital stay a few years back after a bus crash, and many people wondered about the future of her performing career, too.

She credited motivational tapes with helping give her the will to live through that tough time, and she gave Roy a set of those same tapes to help him through.

I'm encouraged by the reports of daily improvement of Roy, even if they are just little steps. Get well soon, Roy!

([url=http://news.google.com/news?q=%2BSiegfried+%2BRoy&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&sa=N&scoring=d]Click here for the latest news on Roy[/url]).
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 10, 2003 06:23PM)
Let's not forget S, who must be having a very tough time. And the cats who probably miss Roy. And the staff who are probably just now feeling the tragedy. And the audiences who may never get to see that act.

Very sad thing to happen. Best wishes to all concerned.
Message: Posted by: WolfgangWollet (Oct 10, 2003 08:27PM)
I think that The Mirage does not have much choice as to accept the fact that the show will, at the very best, have a long break. The Mirage can simply not afford to let the showroom sit empty. They are not only loosing the part of the ticket sales they were entitled to but the added revenue from about 3000-4000 visitors nightly (two shows) to the casino. Not only gambling, but restaurants, shops, bars, etc. They will need to get something going in there soon in order to not risk the whole operation.

I am sure they are working on something right now that does not need a big change to the theatre thus in case things go well they have a possibility of bringing Siegfried & Roy back.

Also, it looks to me that it might not be as much The Mirage people as Kenneth Feld who made the call. :question:
Message: Posted by: manipulator (Oct 11, 2003 04:39PM)
Hope he'll get well soon. :cry:
Message: Posted by: Review King (Oct 12, 2003 08:25PM)
The show is over. The Mirage has lost its main attraction and has to get another one to compete. I'm sure they will try to do it tastefully.

Perhaps the next one will be "The Siegfried and Roy Tribute Show". It's possible.
Message: Posted by: inidyls (Oct 13, 2003 07:42AM)
Did anybody hear about The Mirage buying Ceasar's Magical Empire and, instead of having the parlor act after dinner, they are thinking about showing a film about S@R before the stage show? Two people just told me last night and they don't even know each other. It wouldn't be a bad idea because if Roy ever comes back they could be the show closer??? :question:
Message: Posted by: Marshall Thornside (Oct 13, 2003 10:49AM)
When someone has major nerve damage (i.e. stroke) the likelihood of a magician getting his hand back is nill. Since most of the damage was in the jugular and caritoid, those are major arteries to the brain, there was not only a lot of blood loss but when the stroke(s) happened there was oxygen loss too, resulting in scar tissue.

He's on a ventilator still and until about two to three weeks after the injury will he go to stable. It is still iffy as to what can happen, post-recovery. He could have severe hemypliis and some aphasia and is at risk for seizures.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Oct 13, 2003 11:00AM)
[quote]
On 2003-10-13 08:42, inidyls wrote:
Did anybody hear about The Mirage buying Ceasar's Magical Empire and, instead of having the parlor act after dinner, they are thinking about showing a film about S@R before the stage show? Two people just told me last night and they don't even know each other. It wouldn't be a bad idea because if Roy ever comes back they could be the show closer??? :question:
[/quote]
Since The Empire was closed and torn out a several months ago I doubt that there is any validity to this rumour.
Message: Posted by: Jeff007 (Oct 13, 2003 12:22PM)
By the way, it was only one stroke and was "minor" according to Siegfried. Also, it was reported that Roy is breathing on his own now and was also sitting in a chair. (I guess he got tired of just laying around.) *Hehee*. Go go Roy!
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Oct 13, 2003 01:06PM)
I was at the candlelight vigil for Roy last night. There were lots of well-wishers there, and generally a very positive atmosphere.

Eugene Burger, Gary Darwin, Mac King and Pam Thompson were there, among others. I saw some old friends, and even made some new ones last night!

Gary delivered a giant card, complete with one of Gary's caricatures, that was signed by all of us at his Midnight Magic Club.

Talking to several people who had attended the first vigil, they all agreed that the news was much better this week, and the mood was even more hopeful at last night's vigil.

Keep up the great progress, Roy!
Message: Posted by: Jeff007 (Oct 13, 2003 01:21PM)
Thanks for the post, Scott! I wish I could have been there. It's so great hearing about things like this though..Thanks again for posting that.
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Oct 13, 2003 05:32PM)
For those who can't make it to the vigils, or Siegfried & Roy Plaza, here are some places you can leave your thoughts:

[url=http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/category.asp?C=45874&nav=168XIQNz]Letters to Roy of Siegfried & Roy[/url]
[url=http://www.ktnv.com/news/oct03/175375.asp]Send Well Wishes To Roy Horn[/url]
Message: Posted by: Payne (Oct 13, 2003 06:47PM)
So if one were to find oneself in Vegas in the next week or so, where does one find out where these vigils take place?
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Oct 13, 2003 10:10PM)
The vigils happen at [url=http://www.umc-cares.org/]UMC[/url], which can be found [url=http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?ed=Sf1Ohup_0Tq24UaFqXdVwvGg6UHPSUcs9cVPXStJEdoU&csz=Las+Vegas%2C+NV&country=us]here[/url]. They're usually on the east side of the Trauma and Children Center.

Keep your eyes on the local news for [url=http://news.google.com/news?q=%2BRoy+%2Bvigil+%2B%22Las+Vegas%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&sa=N&scoring=d]information about vigils for Roy[/url]. They've so far started at 8:00PM on Sundays.

If you find you can't make it to the vigil, there are also places at Siegfried & Roy Plaza (on the sidewalk between the Mirage and Treasure Island) to leave your wishes to Roy.
Message: Posted by: DarryltheWizard (Oct 13, 2003 10:41PM)
I have seen Siegfried and Roy several times and when I heard Larry King interview Siegfried and his manager, I was in tears. Roy is a strong-willed person who will not be separated from his animals without a courageous fight. All the members of I.B.M. Ring #235 in Kitchener, Ontario, are praying for Roy.

Darryl the Wizard, President of Ring 235
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Oct 14, 2003 01:21AM)
BTW, Good news!

[url=http://www.boston.com/ae/celebrity/articles/2003/10/13/tiger_to_remain_at_mirage_casino_habitat/]Montecore was released from quarantine today![/url]

(Click highlighted text for full news story)
Message: Posted by: Marshall Thornside (Oct 14, 2003 12:04PM)
[quote]
On 2003-10-13 13:22, Jeff007 wrote:
By the way, it was only one stroke and was "minor" according to Siegfried. Also, it was reported that Roy is breathing on his own now and was also sitting in a chair. (I guess he got tired of just laying around.) *Hehee*. Go go Roy!
[/quote]
Not to get all critical but a stroke is a stroke no matter if it was minor or major. The outcome of what has happened will be most important. I highly doubt they would move him from a bed to a chair with a ventilator in him but if they took it out they could move him to a chair.

From what I understand and have heard, his left side is paralyzed and he must have had a right CVA. He may have motor coordination issues which means balancing and walking is affected and if that is the case, so will sitting in a chair. But if he gets through the next few days with no set-backs, then we should hear about a neurological report.
Message: Posted by: Dennis Michael (Oct 15, 2003 08:01AM)
I sure hope what I hear is not true. Roy has damage to his spine and he can only move his thumb, nothing else from neck down.
Message: Posted by: Jeff007 (Oct 15, 2003 08:16AM)
Yeah, now the [i]NY Daily News[/i] is publishing things that they see in a tabloid. Why don't they (and all of us) just wait to hear the truth? The media is the media afterall. I don't think any of us here know Roy's condition, and all we are doing is posting several contradicting things that we hear from different news sources. This is ridiculous!

Excuse me if I'm optimistic (as if that were a bad thing!), but I pray for Roy's complete recovery, as he may already be on the way to it now!
Message: Posted by: JAEIII (Oct 16, 2003 12:45AM)
I agree with Jeff in this matter. Just about every source is saying something different. It's hard to believe any of it unless it comes from Siegfried, someone close to them (Bernie, Roy's doctors, etc.) and God willing Roy himself.
Message: Posted by: Jeff007 (Oct 16, 2003 12:57PM)
This is what some people are now reporting:

[quote]
LAS VEGAS -- Doctors surgically removed a portion of illusionist Roy Horn's skull after the accident with white tiger Montecore during a performance on the Las Vegas Strip.

Las Vegas neurosurgeon Lonnie Hammargren said about one-fourth of the right side of the Siegfried & Roy star's skull was removed to relieve cranial pressure in the crucial hours after the Oct. 3 accident. He said Horn suffered a "pretty big stroke" but that his paralysis might only be temporary.

Horn remained in critical condition Thursday at University Medical Center in Las Vegas. Hammargren said it was unclear when Horn would undergo surgery to return the skull piece.

Hammargren, a former Nevada lieutenant governor, told the Las Vegas Review-Journal that he was commenting about Horn's treatment to correct misinformation about the procedure.

Hammargren didn't operate on Horn, but said he talked with Horn's surgeon, Dr. Derek Duke, about Horn's treatment.

Hammargren denied published reports that Horn, 59, underwent a radical procedure called a hemicraniectomy, involving surgical removal of half the skull.

He said Horn's surgeons instead performed a decompressive craniectomy, a more common procedure involving removal of about one-quarter of the skull.

"Dr. Duke did exactly the operation he should have," Hammargren said Wednesday. "Otherwise, Roy would be dead."

Hammargren said surgeons can remove a portion of the skull to give the brain room to expand following brain surgery, trauma, stroke or other medical problems causing the brain to swell.

The removed portion of the skull can then be surgically placed in the abdomen or frozen until it can be replaced, Hammargren said. He said he was told Horn's skull had been implanted in a pouch in Horn's abdomen.

Hammargren confirmed that Horn suffered a stroke and was paralyzed on the left side after the tiger attacked his neck.

"He had a pretty big stroke," the neurosurgeon said. "We just don't know yet. Fortunately, the stroke didn't hit on the side where he talks, thinks and remembers. He can still comprehend things and do things."

The 7-year-old male tiger that attacked Horn was released Tuesday from quarantine after 10 days of isolation. Clark County officials said they determined it did not have rabies.

MGM Mirage officials said the animal, named Montecore, will continue to live at the Secret Garden, an animal habitat at The Mirage hotel-casino.
[/quote]
As for the accuracy, who knows? Just thought I'd post it though for those interested and didn't already find this "news" elsewhere.
Message: Posted by: Magicbarry (Oct 16, 2003 01:20PM)
We'd have a better chance of judging its credibility if you provided the source of the article.
Message: Posted by: Jeff007 (Oct 16, 2003 02:27PM)
Knowing the source does not help prove the accuracy by any means, it is all media anyway. Some have started publishing things that they found in a tabloid, as stated elsewhere.

If you really want to know though, sources were:

Mid Columbia Tri City Herald, WA
San Francisco Chronicle, CA
KTVU.com, CA
WXIA-TV, GA
Wichita Eagle, KS
News 14 Carolina, NC
KATV, AR...shall I keep going?

Not that everyone reporting the same thing makes it any more accurate. That can easily be the result of a single news organization sparking all of the others that are interested. I hate the media, can't you tell? :)
Message: Posted by: boblinds (Oct 16, 2003 02:56PM)
[url=http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/Oct-16-Thu-2003/news/22382569.html]Here's a link[/url] to a recent story from the [i]LV Review-Journal[/i].
Message: Posted by: Magicbarry (Oct 16, 2003 04:26PM)
Actually, Jeff, I was curious about the source of that particular article, not just the facts in it. It makes a difference if it was a wire service report vs. a local newpaper vs. an online tabloid. Something from the Associated Press has more credibility (they check their facts) than, say, something from Fast Eddie's Online Journal.

Since there appears to be several fairly credible sources reporting the same facts, and the doctor in question appears to be a credible source (though not the doctor directly involved), we can assume that, at the very least, things are better for Roy than some of the more questionable sources have reported.
Message: Posted by: JAEIII (Oct 22, 2003 01:24PM)
A MESSAGE FROM SIEGFRIED:

It is with great joy that we are able to share the news that Roy is making the turn from survival to recovery. While we are all aware that the road ahead is long and an expanded prognosis is still far away, all of us at the Siegfried and Roy family are buoyed by Roy's remarkable demonstration of will, courage and faith.

The outpouring of love and support from around the world has touched us all, and we know it is a great contributor to Roy's recovery. On behalf of all of us, I want to thank everyone who has sent us their best wishes and prayers during this difficult time.

Also, please know that Montecore is now in his habitat at the Secret Garden at The Mirage where he and all of the Siegfried and Roy animal family are protected and receive the finest care from our staff.

While the Siegfried and Roy Show at The Mirage is closed, Siegfried and Roy will continue both creatively and in our conservation efforts for endangered animals around the world. We look forward to sharing those endeavors with you in the future.

Again, from all of us here, our deepest thanks.

Siegfried
:)
Message: Posted by: Review King (Oct 22, 2003 06:26PM)
These guys are millionaires, they should take care of the employees that were let go.
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Oct 22, 2003 07:03PM)
You are right. Those employees are probably way too stupid to take care of themselves. S&R should take care of these ADULTS financial lives forever. :devilish:
Message: Posted by: Reis O'Brien (Oct 23, 2003 11:09AM)
Hear! Hear! dpe666.
Message: Posted by: paraguppie (Oct 23, 2003 08:49PM)
Agreed!

Why is it when someone has money, everyone else thinks they should hand it out like candy? If a Walmart shut down would you expect Walmart to "take care" of the employees they let go? Yes, it is unfortunate that the show closed down, but it is no different than a lay off from any other company just because S&R have money. Just my thoughts.

Keith
Message: Posted by: JAEIII (Oct 26, 2003 12:52PM)
Agreed...it's like working at any other job. It's kind of like a television show. Siegfried and Roy were the two main characters. If a television show gets cancelled, it's not up to the actors to pay everybody's bills until they all get new jobs. "Stuff" happens. It's unfair, but not up to S&R to pay for it.

It's nice that The Mirage is trying to help everyone find new jobs. They could just as easily say sorry and turn away.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Oct 26, 2003 02:58PM)
I said that because like all phoney show biz people, the employees are referred to as "family". They most definitely are not family, nor are treated as such.
Message: Posted by: paraguppie (Oct 27, 2003 02:01PM)
I don't know, if my brother was my "boss" and had a 600 pound tiger bite his throat, I don't think his main concern would be finding ME a new job.

I truly believe our society has become helpless. Everyone expects someone else to take care of them. I feel sorry for those people losing jobs, but it happens everyday, and those everyday people go out and find new jobs without the old boss giving them money, references or any help whatsoever. It's called responsiblity and it makes people accountable.

I'm rambling now so I'm going to stop.

Keith
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Oct 28, 2003 09:16PM)
There's a new controversy arising, surrounding Roy's surgeon:

[url=http://www.kvvutv.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201486616][b]Controversy For One Local Neurosurgeon[/b][/url]

A miracle surgery to save master magician Roy Horn's life is now the root of controversy for one local neurosurgeon.

FOX5 News was the first to tell you about the risky life saving operation performed on Roy.

But now, those closest to him aren't very happy that the medical details are being made public and the doctor who wanted to set the record straight is under fire.

Dr. Lonnie Hammargren did not perform Horn's surgery but he told FOX5 about the procedure.

"It's not common. It's necessary. I call it a decompressive craniotomy- and as a first procedure it can be life saving and in this case it was." Dr. Lonnie Hammargren said to FOX5.

Roy Horn suffered a massive stroke after the October 3rd attack by one of his white tigers. The stroke caused swelling in his brain. Doctors removed a portion of his skull to alleviate the pressure and stored the piece in his abdomen.

Dr. Hammargren has performed this procedure dozens of times. However, he said he could not talk specifically about Horn's operation. 

"I can't really comment on Roy.  I'm not his doctor, not up to date on all the things happening," Dr. Hammargren commented.

New federal laws prohibit doctors from disclosing information about their patients.

Hammargren agreed to go on the record with FOX5 News only to correct published statements in several national newspapers.

When they talked about a hemicraniectomy they quoted a neurosurgeon who didn't know any details of the case. Hemicraniectomy means you took the whole skull off along one side.

Now, Hammargren's attempt to set things straight is causing problems.

UMC confirms they are launching an investigation after longtime Siegfried and Roy manager, Bernie Yuman, saw our report.

MGM mirage spokesperson Alan Feldman also chastised Dr. Hammargren, saying that "Mr. Hammargren has no direct knowledge, and no authority to speak." Mr. Feldman went on to say that "the family of Roy has asked everyone to stay focused on his recovery."

A recovery they're not willing to talk about.

In fact the Siegfried and Roy camp and UMC have been very tight lipped about Roy's recovery, revealing only that Roy is still in critical condition.
Message: Posted by: JAEIII (Oct 29, 2003 01:07PM)
[b]HORN MOVED TO L.A.[/b]
October 29, 2003

ROY HORN, of the Las Vegas illusionist duo "Siegfried and Roy," was moved to a Los Angeles-area hospital on Tuesday. The 59-year-old performer had been in intensive care at University Medical Center in Vegas since being mauled on-stage by a 600-pound, white tiger on Oct. 3. Roy suffered a stroke and severe blood loss from the attack. While his long-term prognosis is unknown, Roy is reportedly aware when people are visiting him and responds with hand squeezes, however his eyes still reportedly do not track.
Message: Posted by: Grandillusionsmagic (Nov 3, 2003 09:48PM)
I got this reply to an e-mail I sent to wish Roy well:

[quote]
All of us in the MGM MIRAGE family are touched by your expression of good wishes for Roy Horn. We will continue to share the many wonderful sentiments with Siegfried, Roy and their family and friends. The outpouring of love has been overwhelming, so it won't be possible to respond to everyone individually, but please know your thoughts are appreciated.

The injuries Roy Horn sustained during the Siegfried & Roy performance at The Mirage on Friday, October 3, 2003, were extremely severe, and while his condition remains serious, we are cautiously optimistic about his prognosis and recovery. It will, however, be some time before the full extent of his injuries is determined.

Regretfully, future performances of Siegfried & Roy have been cancelled indefinitely.

Cards and letters may be sent to Roy Horn, c/o The Mirage, 3400 Las Vegas Blvd. South, Las Vegas, NV 89109. Flowers may also be sent to this address, and will be placed with others displayed by the Siegfried & Roy Statue in front of The Mirage, in expression of the overwhelming concern we have received for Roy from all around the world.

Many people have requested information regarding donations. We all feel that UMC and its excellent medical staff saved Roy¹s life, and therefore ask that you send your donations in Roy¹s name to University Medical Center Foundation, Inc., P.O. Box 26118, Las Vegas, NV 89126-0110.

Again, on behalf of Roy Horn and The Mirage, thank you for your kindness and caring. The support Roy has received from his many friends and fans is no doubt very much appreciated during this difficult time, and your comments will be appropriately conveyed.

Sincerely,
Mirage Guest Service
[/quote]
GI
http://www.grandillusionsmagic.com
Message: Posted by: thehawk (Dec 14, 2003 12:16AM)
Anything more on Roy? Hope he is coming along.