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Topic: Nastiness
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Jul 18, 2012 12:18PM)
OK, I've been bugged about this for several years, but I'm now going to ask y'alls' opinion.

The impression I get living abroad is that there has been a turn toward nastiness in American political life. What I'm saying is this: Americans no longer say something like, "My crazy neighbor...God bless him...good man with a sweet wife and a rotten kid...thinks FDR was the greatest thing that ever happened to America. What's up with that?" Instead they say: those who do not have my own political beliefs are the ENEMY. They are stupid, uninformed, stupid, dangerous, stupid, and in fact are my ENEMY.

Now, I don't really want to know any of your political views in this thread. And I don't really want to talk about politics at all. What I (as an American who has lived for nearly two decades abroad) am asking is this: have you noticed a change in political discussion? Is it nastier than ever? Or is that just a false impression gained from Internet forums...WHOOPS!...news forums and stuff like that?
Message: Posted by: Marlin1894 (Jul 18, 2012 12:21PM)
I don't think it's a false impression. It's true. It may be cyclical and maybe it's been like that in the past as well. But in my lifetime I've seen the change.
Message: Posted by: critter (Jul 18, 2012 12:28PM)
I think politics has always been nasty, it's just that the nastiness spreads faster now. It's the age of instant communication and nobody takes the time to filter themselves.
We go to check our email =) There's a Yahoo! news story about Obama =) We skim it just long enough to get mad =) We leave an angry comment.
It happens that fast now.

This is an interesting article about the related subject of dirty politics:
http://www.freakonomics.com/2007/11/06/the-complete-history-of-dirty-politics-a-qa-on-anything-for-a-vote/
Message: Posted by: Woland (Jul 18, 2012 12:31PM)
If you review the political rhetoric commonly used, in print, in the first half of the XIXth century, you will find that the language, imagery, and attitudes were far rougher than anything you see today.

I think that political discourse in the United States, at least on the national level, was very much subdued during latter half of the XXth century, since from 1941 the United States was continually at war, and during the Cold War, there was a lot of importance attached to avoiding impairing the President's implied authority.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Jul 18, 2012 12:34PM)
Critter, I think I failed to make myself clear. Poltics itself has always been nasty, of course. What I feel to be different is the nastiness toward one's neighbors. My uncle is so far away from my father politically that you wouldn't think they could sit in the same room together. But I don't think it ever occured to them (both in their eight decade of life) that political differences should mean that one can't sit in the same room together.

That's the change. Can we sit at the bar and discuss politics without getting into a fist-fight? My intuition tells me (remember, I'm feeling feminine tonight) that the situation is more volotile--among neighbors--than at anytime since the Civil War.
Message: Posted by: critter (Jul 18, 2012 12:35PM)
Plus with the internet and higher literacy rates, more of us are exposed to other people's nasty little opinions than in the 1800's.
Message: Posted by: critter (Jul 18, 2012 12:39PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 13:34, stoneunhinged wrote:
Critter, I think I failed to make myself clear. Poltics itself has always been nasty, of course. What I feel to be different is the nastiness toward one's neighbors. My uncle is so far away from my father politically that you wouldn't think they could sit in the same room together. But I don't think it ever occured to them (both in their eight decade of life) that political differences should mean that one can't sit in the same room together.

That's the change. Can we sit at the bar and discuss politics without getting into a fist-fight? My intuition tells me (remember, I'm feeling feminine tonight) that the situation is more volotile--among neighbors--than at anytime since the Civil War.
[/quote]

Hmm... I don't know. I only have my own experience.
One of my good friends for a while was uber right-wing and I listened politely to his Rush Limbaugh talk. While doing shots. Politics had nothing to do with why we don't talk anymore.
I've got friends with a wide array of political views. And I like it.
As for neighbors, I've never asked mine about their politics :)
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Jul 18, 2012 12:41PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 13:31, Woland wrote:
If you review the political rhetoric commonly used, in print, in the first half of the XIXth century, you will find that the language, imagery, and attitudes were far rougher than anything you see today.
[/quote]

Yes, it was. I agree (because I have already reviewed the material).

But I think I clarified what I was really getting at: how do you feel about your neighbors?
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jul 18, 2012 12:46PM)
From “The roaring 20s” to “Sex, Drugs, and Rock n’ Roll” to “The too Big to Jail” to where we may be the gutter but can still look up to the stars. And when we look at these stars that are looked up to today, what do we see, but the most degenerate bunch society ever created. God Bless them.
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Jul 18, 2012 12:56PM)
One thing that I think causes this is the general loss of respect for individuals in general. I also believe it has a lot to do with the part of the country in which you live. In my area of the country, I have very good friends whose political views lie from one end of the spectrum to the other, and none of them would ever get in a fight (figuratively or literally) over their political positions. There may be some good-natured bantering from time to time, but after all is said and done, best friends are still best friends. (College football, however, is another matter entirely. :P) We still eat together, play golf together, attend church together, and cry for one another when we're hurting.

Contrast this with my cousin who lives in another area of the country. His political views differ from most of those around him. He is a quiet guy and will do anything for anyone, but his wife said that there is downright animosity toward them from acquaintances whose views are opposite of his after they found out he supported the "other guy" in an election. This sort of behavior is just nuts (in my opinion, of course...)

Unfortunately, this fervor causes some to misread or misinterpret even the most benign comments, with the ability to turn almost any discussion into a shouting match.
Message: Posted by: Woland (Jul 18, 2012 01:06PM)
Hi Stone,

Sorry I missed the original point you were raising. But I haven't noticed the phenomenon you describe. Most of the neighbors I know are fairly polite, if distant, even though they may disagree.
Message: Posted by: critter (Jul 18, 2012 01:15PM)
Even though it's unrelated, that article is still a fun read.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Jul 18, 2012 01:34PM)
It's not just politics:

Rotten-Tomatoes-suspends-comments-on-Dark-Knight

"The job of policing the comments became more than my staff could handle for that film, so we stopped the comments altogether," said Atchity. "It just got to be too much hate based on reactions to reviews of movies that people hadn't even seen."
Message: Posted by: George Ledo (Jul 18, 2012 01:56PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 14:34, rockwall wrote:
It's not just politics:
[/quote]
Yeah. Look at sports. Who would have ever thought people at a baseball game would get into a fight? Road rage? So-called reality shows?

I have to wonder if we're somehow being conditioned to think it's okay to get angry or to take everything personally.

What would Darwin think? :)
Message: Posted by: Salguod Nairb (Jul 18, 2012 02:27PM)
1) The internet. It allows anyone to voice their opinion as fact without the need of doing research. Now you can find a link which will support your position regardless of it's merit.

2)24 hour News coverage, though coverage isn't an accurate term as now they create the news. Build your position with sound bites taken out of context and some unflattering photography you will get the masses fighting for the opportunity to regurgitate your message with true conviction.

3)Entitlement. A belief that you are entitled to a certain lifestyle simply because you are an American, but I'm digressing. I've been living outside the States since 2003.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jul 18, 2012 02:28PM)
Jeff
We have hate AM radio, we have a hate cable TV channel, and most of the people who post on "not very magical still" are over flowing with even more hate, and they have driven all the lovers away. I'm about to be attacked by all those who hate so much that they have no time to talk about the elephant in the room (thank God for facebook). I think that it is plain for you to see that all the lovers, all of your old friends, all the people who you used to have belly laughs with are long gone. We don't tell jokes here any more here because humor gets in the way of hate.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jul 18, 2012 02:36PM)
If you people in their belief you are pretty correct. Most of the real angry people. Don't have a clue what they are talking about and I flat out refuse to argue with misinformed on eitherside.

I, myself, am very liberal in some areas and conservative in others. I am a Republican who tends to vote Democrat or just pass that office if everyone running is useless. The quickest way to lose my vote is to threaten individual freedoms OR rant about the need of individual freedoms. If all you do is rant about guns I don't trust you, but I think people have the right to have one and I also shouldn't be yelled at because I don't like guns. My neighbor always has a weapon and he knows I don't and we get along fine. I support freedom of religion and freedom from religion only no ones ever ignored my no tresspassing sign, opened my gate, and walked to my door to tell me they don't go to a church...at that point uninvited visitor will hear whatever I decide to say until they leave...

As for the ads I know all the evil but not a thing about what anyone believes themselves. I am voting for Danny Doyle as a write in.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jul 18, 2012 02:50PM)
It ain't about one political opinion against the other. What we have here is a few people with the opinion of hating those who disagree with them, and the direct results is a mass exodus of people who don't hate. Jeff your observations are right on you are witnessing a race to the bottom.

Jeff
Some of the biggest haters here have already denied your assumption.
Message: Posted by: Dreadnought (Jul 18, 2012 03:27PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 15:36, MagicSanta wrote:
My neighbor always has a weapon and he knows I don't and we get along fine.
[/quote]

Ummm...well, okay.

Peace and Godspeed.
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (Jul 18, 2012 03:38PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 15:28, Al Angello wrote:
Jeff
We have hate AM radio, we have a hate cable TV channel, and most of the people who post on "not very magical still" are over flowing with even more hate, and they have driven all the lovers away. I'm about to be attacked by all those who hate so much that they have no time to talk about the elephant in the room (thank God for facebook). I think that it is plain for you to see that all the lovers, all of your old friends, all the people who you used to have belly laughs with are long gone. We don't tell jokes here any more here because humor gets in the way of hate.
[/quote]

Which elephant?
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jul 18, 2012 03:48PM)
Lobo
Thank you for reprinting my post it needed repeating.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jul 18, 2012 03:50PM)
Dread, I. Wonder about it myself he says it is for coyotes. I know a very cute girl who wears a western gun belt and is way into guns. I asked why she needed to bring a gun to walmart and she glared at me and said "its my right and its loaded". She scares me.

I am the only unarmed person in town. If anyone bothers me my neighbor will shoot them. In fact drive down my street slowly and you likely will have at least one person watching you.
Message: Posted by: Woland (Jul 18, 2012 03:56PM)
Sounds like a good neighborhood.

The correct answer of course is "No, I don't think that I need to have a weapon in Wal-Mart, which is why I'm carrying this handgun. THe purpose of a handgun is to provide minimal defensive capacity in the unexpected situation that I don't think is likely to happen. As a civilian, if I think I need a weapon to go someplace, I just don't go there. And if I were a police officer and was obliged to go someplace where a weapon was needed, I would carry a shotgun. Thank you for your concern."
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jul 18, 2012 04:02PM)
If I went to bed with a pistol packen mamma not even Viagra would help my performance.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jul 18, 2012 04:18PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 13:18, stoneunhinged wrote:...My crazy neighbor...God bless him....
[/quote]
Can't help but love thy neighbor - every night primetime on TV. We chat online all the time. Oh, you mean the folks next door? Haven't spent much time with them.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jul 18, 2012 04:28PM)
Most of the guys with a sense of humor have moved on, this is a toxic environment, and only those who have left, or are about to leave notices it. The rest of the people left are die in the wool haters, and the lack of humor here is sad.
Message: Posted by: Devious (Jul 18, 2012 04:35PM)
Arggh, I hate it when my friends fight!
[url=http://youtu.be/CMNry4PE93Y]This may help[/url]
Message: Posted by: motown (Jul 18, 2012 04:37PM)
It's definitely shifted since the economy went bad, but maybe not to the degree you think Jeff.
I think it's happening in many parts of the world, not just the US.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Jul 18, 2012 04:41PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 17:28, Al Angello wrote:
... "The rest of the people left are die in the wool haters, and the lack of humor here is sad."
[/quote]

hmmm, I guess that would apply to you as you're still here!
Message: Posted by: Marlin1894 (Jul 18, 2012 04:44PM)
We just went through that Walker recall election here in Wisconsin. And yes, I can tell you that for about 18 months it got nasty, very nasty, around here. Friendships did break up. Family members refused to talk to each other and still do. There were outrageous acts of behavior on both sides. That stuff happened.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jul 18, 2012 04:46PM)
Motown
The economy has nothing to do with why "not very magical still" is full of unhappy angry people.

Marlin1894
You are the only one here who lives in Wisconsin, and everybody else here is just plain angry.
Message: Posted by: Marlin1894 (Jul 18, 2012 04:50PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 17:46, Al Angello wrote:
Marlin1894
You are the only one here who lives in Wisconsin, and everybody else here is just plain angry.
[/quote]

Yeah, you do seem a bit angry and bitter yourself. But I digress.

WI is just a precursor to what we are going to see from here on out for some time. We've definatley crossed the rubicon on that one.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jul 18, 2012 04:52PM)
Yes I agree if you don't like the message blame the messenger. LOL
Message: Posted by: Dreadnought (Jul 18, 2012 04:53PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 16:50, MagicSanta wrote:
Dread, I. Wonder about it myself he says it is for coyotes. I know a very cute girl who wears a western gun belt and is way into guns. I asked why she needed to bring a gun to walmart and she glared at me and said "its my right and its loaded". She scares me.

I am the only unarmed person in town. If anyone bothers me my neighbor will shoot them. In fact drive down my street slowly and you likely will have at least one person watching you.
[/quote]

Well THEY say that a well armed society is a polite society.
Message: Posted by: Devious (Jul 18, 2012 04:53PM)
I'm certainly not unhappy and I like turtles too!
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Jul 18, 2012 04:55PM)
I was also thinking of Wisconsin when I read your post Stoney. While I think the nastiness you see on message boards does not generally reflect how people interact with each other, Wisconsin would be the exception according to many media reports.

But honestly, I don't know. It was bad during the Viet Nam War. It got bad during the Reagan years. I remember it was really nasty while Clinton was President. And then of course it started getting out of control during Bush's years and doesn't seem to be letting up. It seems to be pretty much as bad on one side as on another with everyone always claiming the other side is worse or even claiming that it's ONLY on the other side. (See Al's multiple silly posts)

To tell the truth, I ONLY see it on the internet, msg boards, and on TV. I don't ever see it person to person. But like I said, Wisconsin is the obvious exception.
Message: Posted by: Woland (Jul 18, 2012 04:55PM)
Robert Heinlein, "Beyond This Horizon," 1942.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Jul 18, 2012 04:57PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 17:53, Devious wrote:
I'm certainly not unhappy and I like turtles too!
[/quote]

LOL. My daugter's brother in law's landlord owns a pretty good sized box turtle that has free reign of the back yard. Last night they were showing me a video of the Box Turtle chasing thier Maltese around the yard. It was pretty hilarious! I've never seen a turtle with that much energy!
Message: Posted by: Devious (Jul 18, 2012 05:01PM)
This one's for you Rocky!
http://youtu.be/CMNry4PE93Y
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Jul 18, 2012 05:02PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 17:55, Woland wrote:
Robert Heinlein, "Beyond This Horizon," 1942.
[/quote]

It's been a long time since I've read Heinlein and the reviews for this one are definately mixed. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be availble on Kindle either. What can you tell me about it Woland?
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Jul 18, 2012 05:03PM)
It is most prevalent on the Internet because "we" can hate each other anonymously. I really don't believe many (if any) of these folks would act the way they act or say the things they say if they were face-to-face.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jul 18, 2012 05:03PM)
I find it amusing that because we are talking about bad manners here all the bad mannered people here are on their best behavior. Now if we could only look forward to a neighborly discourse around here some of the guys with a sense of humor will return.

I had no idea Rockwall was from Wisconsin. LOL
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Jul 18, 2012 05:05PM)
Al, I thought you had moved away with Chance. I'm sure you think he's one of those 'nice' guys that have left us.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jul 18, 2012 05:13PM)
As you can see Jeff the purge of happy people continues. Soon you will be the only happy one left.
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (Jul 18, 2012 05:26PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 16:48, Al Angello wrote:
Lobo
Thank you for reprinting my post it needed repeating.
[/quote]

You're very welcome, but I was completely serious.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jul 18, 2012 05:36PM)
Lobo
All magicians use mis direction. The subject at hand here is that that overall attitude at "the not very magical still" forum is adversarial, and those few who are still here has a giant chip on their shoulder.

The elephant in the room is "HATE"
Message: Posted by: Devious (Jul 18, 2012 05:55PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 18:13, Al Angello wrote:
As you can see Jeff the purge of happy people continues. Soon you will be the only happy one left.
[/quote]
What am I "Chopped Liver"?
Message: Posted by: Dreadnought (Jul 18, 2012 06:08PM)
More like a pate'.

Peace and Godspeed.
Message: Posted by: Woland (Jul 18, 2012 06:18PM)
Hi Rockwall,

Don't know too much about it, it was apparently the first place his famous quote about polite society appeared. Most of his early books were written for a "young adult" audience.
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (Jul 18, 2012 06:44PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 18:36, Al Angello wrote:
Lobo
All magicians use mis direction. The subject at hand here is that that overall attitude at "the not very magical still" forum is adversarial, and those few who are still here has a giant chip on their shoulder.

The elephant in the room is "HATE"
[/quote]

Thanks, Al...sorry I needed that one spelled out.
Message: Posted by: Devious (Jul 18, 2012 06:52PM)
I'm not to certain, but I kind of get the feeling, that this thread
has taken on a sarcastic and condescending tone. I'm not sure though.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jul 18, 2012 07:00PM)
Lobo
I'm sure you remember as well as I do all the lighthearted joking around that went on here before we all joined out separate political action committees. Before the kind of guys that only talk about their parties talking points took over all the conversation here. Before we started hating those who we disagree with.

Or am I the only one that remembers having a good laugh at the not very magical still forum? Jeff Stone must miss the good times too or he wouldn't have started this thread.
Message: Posted by: Devious (Jul 18, 2012 07:02PM)
Does anyone know how Pete Marucci is doing?
If not how about Lee Marelli?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 18, 2012 07:12PM)
Al the question I ask respectfully is do you contribute to the hate? You had a thread about the Murdoch empire collapsing you were deliriously happy to say about how it would hurt Fox.

I am afraid my friend that a close look in the mirror might be in order prior to throwing around such stones as accusing others of hate.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jul 18, 2012 07:37PM)
Danny
We all have fallen into the partisan trap. You remember better days here too, and that is what Jeff is asking us about. There are guys here who only know how to talk about political talking points, and IMHO those fellows should not be leading the conversation. How many fun guys that used to post here are not here anymore, because every thread seems to sound the same.
Message: Posted by: Devious (Jul 18, 2012 07:47PM)
[url=http://youtu.be/Dj3GH5myc3M]Pick me[/url]
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Jul 18, 2012 08:50PM)
Al, I remember those days. Now every thread seems to devolve into politics or religion or politics and religion. It's fun though to go back and read the archives.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jul 18, 2012 09:08PM)
I wonder who Jesus would vote for?
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Jul 18, 2012 09:09PM)
Jeff is right. And to the extent that I have contributed to it I apologize. I will try to do better.

Thanks for the reminder. We all, after all, have a common love for our art and to me that's a lot more important than politics.

Good thoughts,

Bob
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jul 18, 2012 09:10PM)
ClintonMagnus
Thank you for remembering what it was like when all the threads were not about religion, or politics. We had laughs a few years ago, and we had three or four times the participation back then too. Now it seems to be the same three or four boring guys start the same tired old threads over, and over again. What a rut.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 18, 2012 09:35PM)
Bob and I actually made fun of how short a time it takes to devolve into nonsense.

This is why my number system for arguments makes sense.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Jul 18, 2012 09:42PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 20:02, Devious wrote:
Does anyone know how Pete Marucci is doing?
If not how about Lee Marelli?
[/quote]

Been a while since I wrote Peter. Hope he's well.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Jul 18, 2012 09:45PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 22:35, Dannydoyle wrote:
Bob and I actually made fun of how short a time it takes to devolve into nonsense.

This is why my number system for arguments makes sense.
[/quote]

Okay, that does it! 18! (At first I was going to say "23" but I decided not to be too offensive.)

:eek:
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jul 18, 2012 09:46PM)
Nonsense is a good thing. Posting long obscure articles for everybody else to read that come from a biased source will not change anyone's mind.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 18, 2012 09:50PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 22:45, mastermindreader wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 22:35, Dannydoyle wrote:
Bob and I actually made fun of how short a time it takes to devolve into nonsense.

This is why my number system for arguments makes sense.
[/quote]

Okay, that does it! 18! (At first I was going to say "23" but I decided not to be too offensive.)

:eek:
[/quote]

Racist.
Message: Posted by: balducci (Jul 18, 2012 10:03PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 13:18, stoneunhinged wrote:.

The impression I get living abroad is that there has been a turn toward nastiness in American political life.
[/quote]
I put it down to the absence of those delightful, life affirming, Kinder Eggs in the U.S. of A.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/07/18/kinder-eggs-illegal-candy-canada-border.html

I mean, come on.
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Jul 18, 2012 10:54PM)
Toddlers choke on them. They die. Adults don't know that because they're labelled for kids and have kid toys in them. The kinder eggs people know that, yet they keep making them. An example of over-governmented actions saving lives. Sometimes it's needed. If it weren't for government banning these things, the manufacturers, judging the future from the past, would be selling choking toys and slipping melamine in everything we eat and getting away with it.

Sometimes what seems absurd really isn't.
Message: Posted by: balducci (Jul 18, 2012 11:14PM)
Kinder Eggs are sold all around the world, except in the U.S., and apparently there have been about 7 deaths from them in 20 years. So if the population of the world is about 7 billion, and we exclude the population of the U.S., the risk of death from a Kinder Egg is ... well ... any interested reader can do the math. It's infinitesimal (really, really, really small).

Apparently the top items in choking deaths in the U.S. are:

Hot dogs
Candies
Nuts
Grapes
Meat
Raw carrots
Cookies and biscuits
Raw apples
Popcorn
Crunchy peanut butter

Those kill more children in the U.S. every year than Kinder Eggs have in 20 years all around the world.

Anyway, my Kinder Egg post was really just meant to hopefully amuse Stone.
Message: Posted by: Salguod Nairb (Jul 19, 2012 02:30AM)
I stopped watching the news over a year ago and have not watched TV in over a month. I do love a good debate but too many folks have to be right, and worse make it their mission in life to prove you wrong. This is the only section (other than the occasional post in a non post count section) where I post. I do find it ironic that, though the rules say no politics or religion threads allowed yet they exist. But mention a banned members book or question the status quo thunder and lightning rain down from Mount Olympus. It's the randomness of it all.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Jul 19, 2012 02:41AM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-19 03:30, Salguod Nairb wrote:
It's the randomness of it all.
[/quote]

That's what makes life interesting!
Message: Posted by: Salguod Nairb (Jul 19, 2012 03:24AM)
Care for a game of Russian Roulette? I'll let you go first. :P
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Jul 19, 2012 09:04AM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-19 00:14, balducci wrote:
Kinder Eggs are sold all around the world, except in the U.S., and apparently there have been about 7 deaths from them in 20 years. So if the population of the world is about 7 billion, and we exclude the population of the U.S., the risk of death from a Kinder Egg is ... well ... any interested reader can do the math. It's infinitesimal (really, really, really small).

Apparently the top items in choking deaths in the U.S. are:

Hot dogs
Candies
Nuts
Grapes
Meat
Raw carrots
Cookies and biscuits
Raw apples
Popcorn
Crunchy peanut butter

Those kill more children in the U.S. every year than Kinder Eggs have in 20 years all around the world.

Anyway, my Kinder Egg post was really just meant to hopefully amuse Stone.
[/quote]

But Balducci, if it saves 1 life, it will be worth it!

Ok, I know you can't detect sarcasm on a msg board but that's how that was meant. That's one of the sayings that annoys me the most.
Message: Posted by: balducci (Jul 19, 2012 09:13AM)
So you are saying that Tom Jorgenson's comment to me was sarcastic? Hope Tom weighs in to clarify.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Jul 19, 2012 11:30AM)
No, I'm saying MY comment was sarcastic. I was agreeing with YOUR comments.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Jul 19, 2012 12:06PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-19 00:14, balducci wrote:

Anyway, my Kinder Egg post was really just meant to hopefully amuse Stone.
[/quote]

It did, thanks!

But it also reminded me of my last trip to the States. I bought a three-pack of old-fashioned (meaning: in the box, not the bag) Cracker Jack. The surprise inside was paper. I immediately came to the conclusion that they were trying to protect themselves from accusations of the toys being a choking hazard. And I thought to myself, since Cracker Jack was invented, how many kids choked on the toys?

While it's true that a single death of a child from choking on a Kinder Surprise egg or a Cracker Jack toy is regretable and tragic, what's really sad is that I think the parents were probably to blame. You know--hand the kid a box of Cracker Jack to shut him up, then go chat with the neighbor for a while, and BANG, the kid is dead. Is that Cracker Jack's fault?

Here is a tragic truth: children drown in swimming pools. It's a horrible, horrible thing. And I don't think the parents are necessarily to blame. But are the swimming pool manufacturers?
Message: Posted by: Jim Sparx (Jul 19, 2012 12:16PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 15:28, Al Angello wrote:
Jeff
We have hate AM radio, we have a hate cable TV channel, and most of the people who post on "not very magical still" are over flowing with even more hate, and they have driven all the lovers away. I'm about to be attacked by all those who hate so much that they have no time to talk about the elephant in the room (thank God for facebook). I think that it is plain for you to see that all the lovers, all of your old friends, all the people who you used to have belly laughs with are long gone. We don't tell jokes here any more here because humor gets in the way of hate.
[/quote]
+10 Thank you
Message: Posted by: Destiny (Jul 19, 2012 01:27PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-19 04:24, Salguod Nairb wrote:
Care for a game of Russian Roulette? I'll let you go first. :P
[/quote]

Careful there - Bob has actually played Russian Roulette professionally.
Message: Posted by: Pop Haydn (Jul 19, 2012 01:43PM)
And it has been rumored that he cheats...
Message: Posted by: Destiny (Jul 19, 2012 01:45PM)
Even by his good self. ;)
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jul 19, 2012 02:40PM)
Listen guys. I am on drugs and not sure what day it is and these threads confuse me.

I also don't think Bob Cassidy is hip enough to Will Rogers and I think he, Bob, would. Like his quotes.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jul 19, 2012 04:02PM)
Santa
Bob wears very hip glasses.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 19, 2012 08:52PM)
A little of this, a little of that, it's all good IMO. It gets tiring when we go over the same ground many times over, but on the other hand, I enjoy hearing the different perspectives people have and expressing my own.
Message: Posted by: critter (Jul 19, 2012 09:02PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-19 15:40, MagicSanta wrote:
Listen guys. I am on drugs and not sure what day it is and these threads confuse me.

I also don't think Bob Cassidy is hip enough to Will Rogers and I think he, Bob, would. Like his quotes.
[/quote]

My email sig for the last 3 years has been a Will Rogers quote: "Don't let yesterday use up too much of today."
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Jul 19, 2012 09:07PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-19 14:27, Destiny wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-07-19 04:24, Salguod Nairb wrote:
Care for a game of Russian Roulette? I'll let you go first. :P
[/quote]

Careful there - Bob has actually played Russian Roulette professionally.
[/quote]

Why did you tell him? That was going to be my secret edge when I took him up on it!

:eek:
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (Jul 19, 2012 09:11PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 15:28, Al Angello wrote:

we have [b][i]a[/i][/b] hate cable TV channel
[/quote]

With your opposition to partisan politics leaking into these threads, I'm sure you meant "channels."
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Jul 19, 2012 10:47PM)
Yeah, Al hated it so much he left here to do it on other magic boards! LOL Maybe he's back cause they got tired of him too!
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 20, 2012 01:29AM)
Oh come on now. No need for personal attacks. Even tongue in cheek. Lets not decease who is tired of who.

Al I will say you do need to disguise your dislike for those you disagree with a bit more. When you post thumbs sometimes it comes across as hate. I am not saying it is, only that it reads that way.
Message: Posted by: Destiny (Jul 20, 2012 04:20AM)
The US does seem from this distance to have some real nastiness going on - but then nastiness sells more papers than sunshine and lollipops. But as for this forum, as one who hasn't spent a great deal of time here for a while, it seems the friendliest and least partisan it has ever been. There used to be topics here that were not discussions but just two opposing one sided rants with folks sticking to the party line of whatever side they were on - now there seems to be a lot more give and take - actual discussion, willingness to give ground, people admit they were mistaken about things and don't hesitate to apologise when they offend someone else - and there's some very knowledgeable posters.

The person I would judge to have been the most hateful and dishonest poster ever in this section is departed for parts unknown and I'd chance to say, the place is better for his absence. Even the most determinedly infallible of the old regulars has been somewhat subdued, which allows for more reasoned discussion.

So all in all, I'd say that while it looks on the news as though Americans spend their day at each others' throats, I doubt it's the case - and it certainly isn't here.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 20, 2012 05:55AM)
With regard to the country, I think it is only inevitable that as the divide between rich and poor grows, the discourse will grow uglier. Too many lives at stake, and too much privilege at stake, to be otherwise.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jul 20, 2012 06:12AM)
Good
Message: Posted by: Destiny (Jul 20, 2012 08:09AM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-20 06:55, landmark wrote:
With regard to the country, I think it is only inevitable that as the divide between rich and poor grows, the discourse will grow uglier. Too many lives at stake, and too much privilege at stake, to be otherwise.
[/quote]

I am certainly and obviously no economist but I suspect that if the poor keep getting poorer, the rich will get no richer, and indeed many will lose their fortunes because business models seem to be now so leveraged against ever increasing growth and quite ridiculous profits - gone are the days when stocks and bonds were looked upon by many as an investment in the future of their countries economy and a good steady reliable source of income - now everyone wants every share they buy to be a winning lottery ticket - something will have to give.

Downtrodden poor people eventually rebel - in the States they don't need to run at the palace with pitchforks - they can vote - and in this new social media age where perception is all and ideas grab hold so easily, if transiently, it isn't just a politician like Obama who can seemingly appear from nowhere and grab the spotlight. If the Republican and Democrat parties do not start doing something to improve the lot of ordinary Americans, they become very vulnerable.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 20, 2012 12:02PM)
True, downtrodden poor people eventually rebel. Whether the rebellion is successful is not as certain. History shows us examples of the successful and unsuccessful; it requires great creativity, courage, and luck at the very least to have a positive outcome. I am not particularly optimistic at this time.
Message: Posted by: critter (Jul 20, 2012 12:11PM)
So we ship all of our jobs to China and India. Nobody here has a job so nobody can buy anything. We export everything that we do produce to China and India because nobody here can afford any of it. The few things that we can afford (but still not really) are shipped back to us from China and India. The people who run these outsourcing companies make a huge short-term profit. They invest that profit in foreign banks, because they know full well what this situation is going to do to our economy.
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (Jul 20, 2012 12:51PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-20 13:02, landmark wrote:
True, downtrodden poor people eventually rebel. Whether the rebellion is successful is not as certain. History shows us examples of the successful and unsuccessful; it requires great creativity, courage, and luck at the very least to have a positive outcome. I am not particularly optimistic at this time.
[/quote]

How do you think your life and the lives of your family members would change in the event of what you'd consider a successful rebellion?
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 20, 2012 04:01PM)
We would be part of the decision making process; we would neither need to exploit nor be exploited by others.

As I say, not much optimism here.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 20, 2012 04:15PM)
How does someone having more money hurt or stop you from making money?
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 20, 2012 04:32PM)
Danny, I appreciate the question but I'm not going to go there today. We both know where the thread will end up. I've even run out of numbers.
Message: Posted by: Woland (Jul 20, 2012 09:00PM)
The downtrodden poor people did not rebel. They were led into counter-productive, bloody, pointless rebellions by nihilistic members of the privileged classes who hated themselves, their societies, and (despite a facade of altruism) the downtrodden poor people as well. Time and time again.

Or as Eric Voegelin put it, in 1973, "all of us are threatened in our humanity, if not our physical existence, by the massive social force of activist dreamers who want to liberate us from our imperfections by locking us up in the perfect prison of their phantasy."
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 21, 2012 08:39AM)
[i]Never[/i] a rebellion by the downtrodden? You overstate your point unnecessarily, among other things.
Message: Posted by: Woland (Jul 21, 2012 08:43AM)
Hi landmark, I think that in the overwhelming majority of cases, the rebellions in histgory that appear to be rebellions of the downtrodden, were in reality led by disaffected and alienated members of the ruling elite. I'd be happy to go over them with you one by one.