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Topic: Dumb Olympics Rule
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Jul 29, 2012 04:50PM)
The USA finished 2-3-4 in the overall standings for Olympic qualifying for the women's all-around gymnastics competition later this week, but due to a rule that one country can't send more than two representatives to the all-arounds, the top gymnast in the world, Jordyn Wieber, was left out because she finished in fourth.

I know a rule is a rule, but when one of the top four gymnasts at the Olympics doesn't get the chance to compete, something needs to be changed.
Message: Posted by: balducci (Jul 29, 2012 06:21PM)
If every nation competes under the same rules, it seems fair.

And how is someone honestly the top gymnast in the world when they finish 4th facing serious competition?

Hey, at least she wasn't sent home because of a tweet:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2178836/London-2012-Olympics-Greek-athlete-Voula-Papachristou-banned-racist-joke-Twitter.html
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 29, 2012 06:27PM)
I gotta say rules is rules.

I would imagine it is to prevent larger economic powers from saturating the medal stands even more.

Also she must have known the rules prior to start. She agreed to compete under those rules. I don't think anything needs to change. It seems within the spirit of the games.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jul 29, 2012 06:29PM)
If they competed for the top two posirions foe the us team it seems fair. A bad day in sport doesn't call for a do over and what if the two we send get gold and silver? Good luck ladies!
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jul 29, 2012 06:33PM)
I don't understand Montenegro, should be called Monteafricandescent.
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Jul 29, 2012 09:48PM)
I'm all for following the rules. I just think its an unfortunate rule. If the Chinese have the best five table tennis players they should have five in the finals.
Message: Posted by: critter (Jul 29, 2012 09:51PM)
I agree, the Dumb Olympics do rule!
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jul 29, 2012 10:17PM)
It is two per qualifying country right? I would fully agree if they said only five people can compete regardless of country because it would be like a five count olympics. Admit it, you are dating the girl who didn't makenit right?
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Jul 29, 2012 10:30PM)
It's the Olympics. The rules are globally minded. Sometimes a nobody exceeds the pack for one day and gets the gold. That IS the Olympics.
Message: Posted by: RobertSmith (Jul 29, 2012 10:45PM)
To be the best you must beat the best. Someone who finished 29th or 30th in the world will get an opportunity to compete in the all around while someone who finished 4th will not.

As for the comment that, "it would only be a 5 country contest then," so what? This is the all-around. If you're not good enough to be in the Top 24 you shouldn't be included. This is the Olympics. Not a game at the local community center.

Absolute travesty of a rule.
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (Jul 29, 2012 11:42PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-29 19:21, balducci wrote:

And how is someone honestly the top gymnast in the world when they finish 4th facing serious competition?
[/quote]


Is this a serious question?
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jul 29, 2012 11:56PM)
I just reread the initial post and had not seen the qualifications, they are on now.

If for overall and say only ten girls can go it should be the top ten even if all from two or three. I thought you meant the team scores not overall. That gir being RTH should give here the right to go for that medal. I am sorry original poster.
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Jul 30, 2012 07:37AM)
The Olympics is, arguably, for the best athletes in the world. In the swimming heats, for example, the top eight (or whatever) times advance to the next heat, regardless of country. Why should gymnastics be any different.

Only tangentially related, but I LOVE watching Bela Karolyi's interviews following the events! He's like a wind-up toy!
Message: Posted by: NicholasD (Jul 30, 2012 08:54AM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-30 08:37, ClintonMagus wrote:
The Olympics is, arguably, for the best athletes in the world. In the swimming heats, for example, the top eight (or whatever) times advance to the next heat, regardless of country. Why should gymnastics be any different.


[/quote]

That is exactly the point! I competed in gymnastics in high school and college. I've been watching gymnastics competitions since 1960. Controversial judging and decisions about rules, etc. have existed in all that time. The judges in gymnastics abuse their power on a regular basis.

Does it make any sense that some country whose gymnasts couldn't compete with our sixth grader's should be in the finals? This is a rediculous rule. Even with Jordyn Weiber's mistakes, she's still among the best 24 in the world.

I'm guessing that this rule will be re-evaluated.

Whew, had to get that off my chest.
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Jul 30, 2012 09:22AM)
My daughter was a gymnast for 6 years. We attended the Olympic trials in 2008, the first year of the new scoring rules. Suddenly, we had no idea how the judges were scoring! I didn't understand a lot of the scoring last night, especially on floor.

Where did you compete in college?
Message: Posted by: Leland (Jul 30, 2012 11:14AM)
She's no longer the top, she's now the 4th best in the world.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Jul 30, 2012 11:26AM)
Irish boxer Joe Ward is the highest ranked boxer not at the games. He is twice world youth champion, European silver medalist, and beat the Olympic silver medalist in the Irish championships. But due to a shoddy and corrupt panel of judges at the qualifiers in Turkey he has lost out in a certain medal, and a possible gold.

I think the solution is to stop competing for countries, and allow athletes to compete for themselves. Why is there even a team gymnastics event? Gymnastics is an individual sport. Why are there relays in track and field? They just put an unpleasant jingoistic nationalistic layer on top of an otherwise great event.
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Jul 30, 2012 11:31AM)
Wow, you guys have the Olympics completely confused with World Championships. The modern day Olympics is SPECIFICALLY about countries competing against each other..
Message: Posted by: RobertSmith (Jul 30, 2012 11:42AM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-30 12:14, Leland wrote:
She's no longer the top, she's now the 4th best in the world.
[/quote]

That's not true either. Post Olympic rankings are based on the all-around final. So how will she receive a fourth place ranking?

Terrible rule.

If a country is unable to produce an ahlete to finish in the top 24, too bad. The best in the world should fave each other in the final.
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (Jul 30, 2012 11:45AM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-30 12:14, Leland wrote:
She's no longer the top, she's now the 4th best in the world.
[/quote]
Not at all. Rather, the best doesn't always win.
Message: Posted by: balducci (Jul 30, 2012 11:45AM)
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1277547-olympic-gymnastics-2012-jordyn-wieber-not-qualifying-is-not-a-controversy

With Wieber not advancing to the all-around final, the Internet is buzzing with complaints about the rule that only allows two gymnasts per country to qualify. By the reaction, you would think that this was a brand-new rule change or that Wieber was the first athlete to finish in the top 24 and not compete.

Of course, that is not the case.

When the FIG (Federation Internationale de Gymnastique) reduced the amount of athletes that can compete from three per country to two, they also reduced the field from 36 to 24. With the reduced field, controls had to be implemented to keep a small section of dominant countries from taking all the spots in the competition, which would not be good for the sport globally.

The rule has been in place at the past two Olympic Games without much uproar. In 2004, Mohini Bhardwaj finished eighth overall and did not advance since she was the third-best American, like Wieber.

In 2000, when three gymnasts per country were allowed to compete, Russian gymnast Elena Zamolodchikova finished seventh but did not qualify, since she was the fourth best from Russia.

Think of the all-around qualification in the same manner as the Olympic trials. The athletes are competing for their opportunity to participate as individuals at the Olympics. In every sport, there is a per-country athlete limit. Even if the U.S. has the third-fastest swimmer in the world, they can't compete in the Olympic Games due to a two-athlete-per-event rule.

[See link for remainder.]
Message: Posted by: Marlin1894 (Jul 30, 2012 11:47AM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-30 12:31, Tom Cutts wrote:
Wow, you guys have the Olympics completely confused with World Championships. The modern day Olympics is SPECIFICALLY about countries competing against each other..
[/quote]

Is that only for team events or events where the judges score the competition? I watched the Italian women go 1-2-3 in the foil portion of the fencing competition. They each worked their way through the brackets, beat their various opponents, and wound up taking all three medals. The bronze match was Italy vs S. Korea I believe, and obviously the Gold medal match was Italy vs Italy.
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Jul 30, 2012 11:56AM)
In USA track, there is an Olympic "A" standard that must be met to even make it to the games. Does anyone know whether other countries have similar guidelines, or whether other sports have similar guidelines? Is is a USA thing or an Olympic thing?
Message: Posted by: balducci (Jul 30, 2012 12:49PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-30 12:56, ClintonMagus wrote:
In USA track, there is an Olympic "A" standard that must be met to even make it to the games. Does anyone know whether other countries have similar guidelines, or whether other sports have similar guidelines? Is is a USA thing or an Olympic thing?
[/quote]
Not quite true, I think. At least one U.S. athlete made it to the games having only achieved a B standard.

"No American woman achieved the triple jump A standard during the past year, but Amanda Smock - who won Monday's final - previously reached the B standard and will represent the U.S. in London."

Another article I read suggested that there were other U.S. athletes who only satisfied the B standard, but I am not going to spend my time searching for names.
Message: Posted by: balducci (Jul 30, 2012 01:03PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-30 12:56, ClintonMagus wrote:

In USA track, there is an Olympic "A" standard that must be met to even make it to the games. Does anyone know whether other countries have similar guidelines, or whether other sports have similar guidelines? Is is a USA thing or an Olympic thing?
[/quote]
Looks like an Olympic thing, at least in Track and Field:

[url]http://www.iaaf.org/mm/document/statistics/standards/05/97/61/20110415082248%5fhttppostedfile%5fentrystandards%5flondon2012%5f24135.pdf[/url]

The U.S. "A" standards you mention (likewise the "B") are, apparently, lower than what the IAAF actually requires to compete in the Olympic Games. So at the U.S. Olympic Trials, I guess any qualifying athlete (i.e. that satisfied the national standard) has to compete and raise their game to the IAAF level?

Apparently, Canada's national qualifying standards are harsher than those in the U.S. and that has generated some criticism.

http://letsgopro.blogspot.ca/2012/07/canadian-olympic-qualifying-standards.html
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Jul 30, 2012 01:04PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-30 12:47, Marlin1894 wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-07-30 12:31, Tom Cutts wrote:
Wow, you guys have the Olympics completely confused with World Championships. The modern day Olympics is SPECIFICALLY about countries competing against each other..
[/quote]

Is that only for team events or events where the judges score the competition? I watched the Italian women go 1-2-3 in the foil portion of the fencing competition. They each worked their way through the brackets, beat their various opponents, and wound up taking all three medals. The bronze match was Italy vs S. Korea I believe, and obviously the Gold medal match was Italy vs Italy.
[/quote]Do you understand how Fencing competitions work?
Message: Posted by: Marlin1894 (Jul 30, 2012 01:28PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-30 14:04, Tom Cutts wrote:
Do you understand how Fencing competitions work?
[/quote]

What does that have to do with anything? I asked a question, if you don't want to answer it then let someone else do it.

If the modern day Olympics is SPECIFICALLY about countries competing against each other, why don't they jostle things around to make sure one country doesn't sweep all the medals?
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Jul 30, 2012 01:58PM)
In track and field, the "A" standard just means that you are free to send multiple athletes in an event up to an "approved" number. If no one meets the "A" standard in an event, then a single "B" standard athlete can be sent.

[quote]
Is that only for team events or events where the judges score the competition? I watched the Italian women go 1-2-3 in the foil portion of the fencing competition. They each worked their way through the brackets, beat their various opponents, and wound up taking all three medals. The bronze match was Italy vs S. Korea I believe, and obviously the Gold medal match was Italy vs Italy.
[/quote]

I don't "understand" fencing necessarily, but I have no problem with the best getting the medals, regardless of how many come from a single team. I also have no problems with re-seeding teams in a finals event (such as college baseball) to make sure the best teams have the best chance to advance.
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Jul 30, 2012 02:06PM)
You asked about fencing. THAT is what it has to do with anything. If you don't understand how fencing works, then discussion of the results is pointless. If you understand the rules of fencing we can discuss how a country could sweep the podium in fencing or swimming or skating. The point is EVERY country which wanted to got to compete. The pool in Fencing is larger than 24 people, hence more than two from any country may compete. Though I bet there is a limit there as well. Maybe it is three, maybe four or five.
Message: Posted by: Marlin1894 (Jul 30, 2012 02:39PM)
It has absolutely nothing to do withh the [i]rules[/i] of fencing. It has to do with the format of the competition.
Message: Posted by: NicholasD (Jul 30, 2012 03:14PM)
I know I wouldn't want a gold medal if I won it by competing against those whose skills weren't the best in the world. Everyone would know, but worse, I would know.

I was in a weightlifting contest in the '70's, competing against the collegiate national champion in my weight class. He missed all of his snatches and I won by default. I stewed for a year waiting for the opportunity to win by lifting more weight than him, which did happen a year later.
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Jul 30, 2012 03:29PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-30 16:14, NicholasD wrote:
I know I wouldn't want a gold medal if I won it by competing against those whose skills weren't the best in the world. Everyone would know, but worse, I would know.
[/quote]

The Olympics are a unique combination of teams and individuals. Sometimes, when entire teams are selected for competition rather than individuals (high school or college), you compete against whoever is in your event. You may not be competing against the best discus throwers in the country, but you are competing against the discus throwers on the best TEAMS in the country. As a team member, you try to do your best to get the most points you can get for your team. If you earn a "gold" in your event along the way, it's perfectly valid. It shows that you did your job.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 30, 2012 03:44PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-30 16:14, NicholasD wrote:
I know I wouldn't want a gold medal if I won it by competing against those whose skills weren't the best in the world. Everyone would know, but worse, I would know.

I was in a weightlifting contest in the '70's, competing against the collegiate national champion in my weight class. He missed all of his snatches and I won by default. I stewed for a year waiting for the opportunity to win by lifting more weight than him, which did happen a year later.
[/quote]

I know lots of athletes drive themselves nuts like this but you.miss the point. The lift is as much mental preparation as physical. He missed because he wasn't mentally prepared and you were. You won because of your total preparation, not just your physical prowess.

These people ARE competing against the best in the world. Just because the best can't manage to get through it in no way diminishes the win. It is for the whole competition, and you need to exec in that fashion if you want the Wheaties box.
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Jul 30, 2012 04:04PM)
Sometimes you win because you are better. Sometimes you win by psyching out the opponent. Sometimes you win by strategy (opening height selection, etc.) Sometimes you win by simply gritting it out. They are all equally valid means to a victory.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Jul 30, 2012 04:06PM)
I'm on the side that that best should get in - don't like the "well, we have to be 'fair' (ugh) so only the top 2 from each country make the all-around" rule.

However....

If you win the gold, you still beat the people who beat the person who "should have got in". So to me, it is a valid Olympic win.

But - the person who finished 4th should have been included among the top 10 who qualified, IMHO.
Message: Posted by: Ray Tupper. (Jul 30, 2012 04:12PM)
I suppose this rule has been in place for donkeys years.
The first time it doesn't go in your favour...it's a w4nk rule.
Interesting.
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Jul 30, 2012 04:25PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-30 17:12, Ray Tupper. wrote:
I suppose this rule has been in place for donkeys years.
The first time it doesn't go in your favour...it's a w4nk rule.
Interesting.
[/quote]

It's a lousy rule, regardless, if the best don't get to compete. If the best got beat in a heat or as part of a pool, it would be fine, but taking the top 24 and excluding #4 (and #12 in the case of the Russians, #21 for GBR, and #22 for China) "because we want all of the countries to partcipate since they would be sad otherwise" stinks.

1 403 KOMOVA Victoria RUS 15.633 15.833 15.266 13.900 60.632 Q
2 413 RAISMAN Alexandra USA 15.800 14.166 15.100 15.325 60.391 Q
3 411 DOUGLAS Gabrielle USA 15.900 15.333 15.266 13.766 60.265 Q
4 415 WIEBER Jordyn USA 15.833 14.833 14.700 14.666 60.032
5 404 MUSTAFINA Aliya RUS 15.133 15.700 14.700 14.433 59.966 Q
6 331 DENG Linlin CHN 14.833 14.166 15.166 13.833 57.998 Q
7 374 FERRARI Vanessa ITA 14.366 14.233 14.433 14.900 57.932 Q
8 384 TERAMOTO Asuka JPN 14.600 14.566 14.466 14.233 57.865 Q
9 393 IORDACHE Larisa Andreea ROU 15.100 14.100 14.800 13.800 57.800 Q
10 333 HUANG Qiushuang CHN 15.000 15.266 13.866 13.575 57.707 Q
11 394 IZBASA Sandra Raluca ROU 15.500 12.366 14.600 15.066 57.532 Q
12 402 GRISHINA Anastasia RUS 14.333 14.033 14.900 14.066 57.332
13 453 LOPEZ Jessica VEN 14.566 14.266 13.933 13.900 56.665 Q
14 365 SEITZ Elisabeth GER 14.800 15.166 12.700 13.800 56.466 Q
15 353 TUNNEY Rebecca GBR 14.400 14.825 13.166 14.000 56.391 Q
16 425 GOMEZ PORRAS Ana Sofia GUA 14.533 13.266 14.333 14.000 56.132 Q
17 355 WHELAN Hannah GBR 14.500 14.200 13.066 13.933 55.699 Q
18 323 PEGG Dominique CAN 14.133 13.725 13.566 14.233 55.657 Q
19 441 van GERNER Celine NED 13.700 14.866 14.100 12.966 55.632 Q
20 373 FERLITO Carlotta ITA 14.100 13.075 14.425 13.900 55.500 Q
21 352 PINCHES Jennifer GBR 14.366 13.700 13.100 14.100 55.266
22 335 YAO Jinnan CHN 13.133 15.766 12.833 13.066 54.798
23 433 STEINGRUBER Giulia SUI 14.783 13.266 13.766 12.900 54.715 Q
24 303 LITTLE Emily AUS 14.766 13.433 13.633 12.666 54.498 Q
25 344 MALAUSSENA Aurelie FRA 14.033 13.300 13.700 13.366 54.399 Q
26 431 PIHAN-KULESZA Marta POL 13.833 14.033 12.166 14.333 54.365 Q
27 383 TANAKA Rie JPN 13.000 14.633 13.400 13.300 54.333 Q
28 302 BRENNAN Ashleigh AUS 13.700 13.266 13.066 14.200 54.232 Q
29 343 KUHM Anne FRA 14.466 13.533 12.566 13.533 54.098 R1
30 372 FASANA Erika ITA 14.000 13.666 12.266 14.033 53.965
31 429 MYS Gaelle BEL 13.533 13.266 13.733 13.166 53.698 R2
32 325 VACULIK Kristina CAN 14.100 14.366 11.300 13.800 53.566 R3
33 457 IZURIETA Ana Maria ESP 14.800 12.600 12.000 14.133 53.533 R4
Message: Posted by: Ray Tupper. (Jul 30, 2012 04:46PM)
Tell that to the fastest man in the world who false starts twice in the heats.
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Jul 30, 2012 05:34PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-30 17:46, Ray Tupper. wrote:
Tell that to the fastest man in the world who false starts twice in the heats.
[/quote]

I would, but I don't know him...
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Jul 30, 2012 06:56PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-30 17:25, ClintonMagus wrote:
It's a lousy rule, regardless, if the best don't get to compete.
[/quote]May I suggest you don't watch the Olympics. What you want to watch are the world championships of each different sport. The Olympics aren't that!
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Jul 30, 2012 06:58PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-30 15:39, Marlin1894 wrote:
It has absolutely nothing to do withh the [i]rules[/i] of fencing. It has to do with the format of the competition.
[/quote]My mistake. I thought you wanted discussion. Continue your tantrum...
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Jul 31, 2012 07:59AM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-30 12:31, Tom Cutts wrote:
Wow, you guys have the Olympics completely confused with World Championships. The modern day Olympics is SPECIFICALLY about countries competing against each other..
[/quote]
I know - which is why I prefer to watch the world championships in any sport in which I have an interest. If I was a competitor still, and was good enough, I would much rather call myself a world champion than an Olympic champion.
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Jul 31, 2012 08:15AM)
What's interesting is that teh Olympics cause us to get interested in sports we care nothing about. The world championships don't seem to have that same aura.
Message: Posted by: balducci (Jul 31, 2012 08:23AM)
Good article IMO, but too long to post the entire thing so I cut and pasted some main points. Read the original article if you have time. The third and fourth points in particular explain why the limit makes some good sense.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympics--blame-the-sport--not-the--dumb--rule--for-jordyn-wieber-s-absence-from-olympic-all-around-final.html

Some of the points it makes:

- First: This is pretty much how every other Olympic competition operates. It's a way to promote various sports across the globe. Only the top two swimmers and top three runners from any given country can qualify for an Olympic race. It's just those are hashed out at the lower profile national qualifying meets, not within the structure of the Olympics, as gymnastics handles it. Consider, the United States could probably field a dozen men's basketball teams better than Tunisia. That isn't how anyone views the Olympics. So we choose one (we could have a tourney of contending squads if we wanted) and call it our team.

- Second: While gymnastics is arguably the most pressure-packed competition of the Olympics featuring gifted, dedicated, and mentally tough athletes, it isn't a sport in the traditional sense. It is a competition. It relies on subjective decisions, not objective measures. The byproduct, at least in women's gymnastics, includes athletes wearing make up and sparkly outfits in an effort to influence the judges. It's hard to be ugly and be a champion gymnast. No one cares what Usain Bolt looks like. Wieber, if anything, was likely penalized for being more powerfully built than some other gymnasts since Olympic judges have long seemed to favor lean, lithe competitors. It's what Shawn Johnson's camp complained about four years ago.

- Third: Geddert railed about the officiating after, claiming Wieber didn't get "the scores she normally does. She got nothing tonight." He may be right. That's gymnastics, though. And that's where the national limit comes into play. Judges also have the human tendency to have scores rise as the competition gets better. One great performance tends to impact the next whether that routine is better or not. Bela Karolyi, whose been around the sport for decades and is Martha's husband, wondered if Wieber was affected by the order of competitors in the floor exercise, the U.S. team's final discipline. Wieber went third. Aly Raisman, who unexpectedly finished first among the Americans and thus knocked Wieber out of the all-around, went directly after her. Karolyi noted that judges' scores generally go up and had the places been reversed perhaps the results would have, too.

- Fourth: The problem with giving too many slots to one country is that it can further cloud judge's scores. Being a member of a great team means you are surrounded by other great gymnasts and thus have an advantage. Weaker members of a stronger team could have their scores artificially boosted because of whom they follow. Meanwhile, a competitor from a developing program or nontraditional nation, who might have competed in a morning qualifying session in a half-full arena lacking energy, atmosphere, and comparative greatness, might suffer.

- Fifth: USA Gymnastics holds a national trials to determine its Olympic team. Except it doesn't really. It's a made-for-TV program. While there is judging, only the top two scorers (after meeting certain scoring qualifications) get an automatic spot on the team. A committee chooses the other spots because everyone agrees that judging is inherently flawed.
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Jul 31, 2012 08:51AM)
Addressing the gymnastics issue, I know something about this because my daughter competed for about six years. I know all about the subjectivity of the scoring. In her best beam routine ever, she "lost" to a girl who fell off the beam. Her coach protested the score, based partly on a video from another mom that showed one beam judge was watching an adjacent uneven bars routine instead of my daughter's beam routine. The judge's reasoning was that she had been doing this long enough that she could properly score by watching "out of the corner of her eye". I have also seen gymnasts get lower scores simply because they competed early, and the judges evidently felt that they needed to allow some "headroom" for later competitors.

As for the Olympic team selection, the "top two scorers" thing is technically true, but I don't ever remember seeing anyone selected who was not among the top scorers. One "semi-tangible" thing that might be considered is an athlete's strength on an individual apparatus when he/she may not be the strongest on the others.

It is what it is, and it's not going to change the course of human events, but I would rather see the Olympics truly represent the best athletes.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 31, 2012 08:55AM)
Then invite individual athletes as opposed to countries.
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Jul 31, 2012 09:18AM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-31 09:55, Dannydoyle wrote:
Then invite individual athletes as opposed to countries.
[/quote]

As I said, "It is what it is". As far as I know, I can't invite anyone to the Olympics...
Message: Posted by: critter (Jul 31, 2012 11:06AM)
Now THIS: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/why-did-japan-coach-100-bills-hand-file-141557317--oly.html
is truly dumb.
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Jul 31, 2012 11:25AM)
Don't know about Olympics, but at Junior Olympics, there is a cash fee for filing an appeal that gets returned if your appeal is upheld.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Jul 31, 2012 12:24PM)
Well, I'm just down the road from the Olympic park, and USA women gymnasts just handed out a can of whupass. Well done those gymnasts. It was a cracking team effort.
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Jul 31, 2012 12:42PM)
Watched it online when I should have been paying attention on a conference call. Everyone wondered what the "YEAH!!!" was about... :P