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Topic: dead end?
Message: Posted by: Chris Becker (May 14, 2002 01:41AM)
I always hated card magic. Why? Because I knew absolutely no sleights thus could only perform effects like "pick a card, was that your card?" About a year ago I started working with cards and I'm fairly proud to say that I've become quite good. My question now is twofold.

First, where do you find good routines? As I said I hate the classic plot of simply finding a chosen card. There must be more interesting effects! So far I perform only very few routines but with the sleights I know, there should be more out there...

My routines so far:
- ambitious card
- signature transpo
- card to pocket, 51 cards to pocket
- card, saltshaker and forehead (Michael Close)
- that opener by Dai Vernon (you make a prediction, production of three queens. predictions turns out to be an ace et voilą the three cards become aces too)
- folded card to anywhere
- that intercessor effect

is there a non-gimmicked version of the MacDonald aces out there??

The sleights I can do deceptively are (and please tell me if there others I should learn).

- all kinds of multiple lifts
- different versions of the pass
- numerous card controls
- second dealing
- numerous methods for palming cards
- top change
- glimpses
- forces of all kinds
- in, out, sidejogs
- buckle

I know these are only the classic moves. But which sleights shall I learn next? Your help is very much appreciated. For instance, I'm interested in false shuffles but I've found no suitable method so far (Should be really convincing like a riffle shuffle but in the hands!!).

Cheers, Chris
Message: Posted by: Garrett Nelson (May 14, 2002 08:58AM)
To keep with the theme, my answer is two-fold.

If you are looking to learn some of the classics of card magic, I strongly suggest you look at Ammar's "Easy to Master Card Miracles."

Don't be turned off by the term "classics." These are strong pieces of magic (I personally like 1, 2, and 6 the best).

After all the different things I have learned I still find myself using at least some material off these tapes nearly everytime I perform.

As for more sleights to learn...
It would serve you well to learn false counts and packet switches. Those are two big ones that come to mind right away.

An in the hands false shuffle, huh?
Guy Hollingworth has one in his book
"Drawing Room Deceptions." It is also on his video's "London Collection" and "Routines."

There is another method of false in the hands shuffling, also with a bridge, called the Heinstein shuffle. It looks great, but can be a bit harsh on cards.
Message: Posted by: Geoff Williams (May 14, 2002 12:33PM)
The classics are classics for a reason.

Many of our modern classics are based on the masterful routines of yesteryear.

Check out "Stars of Magic" and stuff from Harry Lorayne, Ken Krenzel, Ed Marlo, Jon Racherbaumer and Jean Hugard (to name just a few).

There, that ought to keep you busy for a couple of days.
Message: Posted by: Steven Youell (May 14, 2002 01:06PM)
So you would disagree with Dariel Fitzgee who said that the definition of a classic is an effect that is easy enough for the majority of magicians to do?

SEY
Message: Posted by: Paul (May 14, 2002 01:26PM)
Gunney, I assume you meant Fitzkee?

Christof, there are loads of four ace assemblies out there with straight cards. Not quite as clean with aces in view almost to the last minute as MacDonalds, but still effective.

The nearest duplication of MacDonald with straight cards is Nartin Nash's $10,000 Dollar Four Ace Assembly in Ever So Sleightly, but I don't think it is very good for a very small group. I always liked Kosky's One At A Time Aces in The Magic of Gerald Kosky (published by Lee Jacobs). Marlo has a very similar routine, in Tarbell Vol. 5 I think. You show the aces arriving in the leader packet one at a time.

re:
that opener by Dai Vernon (you make a prediction, production of three queens. predictions turns out to be an ace et voilą the three cards become aces too)

There are some lovely gambler vs magicians routines built around that, but for the simple change the best handling is probably Peter Kane's from his Combined Sessions book. It is the most economical version, move wise.

Paul Hallas.
Message: Posted by: Steven Youell (May 14, 2002 01:56PM)
[quote]
On 2002-05-14 02:41, Christof wrote:
First, where do you find good routines? As I said I hate the classic plot of simply finding a chosen card. There must be more interesting effects!
[/quote]

The Magic of Bro. John Hamman has TONS of stuff that you could use that does not revolve around finding a selection.

Also, how about The Christ Aces?

The magician vs. gamblers in Harry
Lorayne's "Reputation Makers"?

The Torn and Restored Card? (J.C. Wagner)

Dai Vernon had some great Transpositions
that didn't involve selections.

Steven Youell
Message: Posted by: Mr. X (May 14, 2002 02:50PM)
You don't find GOOD ROUTINES, they find you. By this I mean, you may see/find a good routine and learn it but then come to realize something is missing, YOU.

So trying to figure out your style would be a good start. This is why you don't see Mr. McBride doing gambling exposes (his mullet would get in the way)

So good routines could mean anything to anyone so asking for books/vids of a particular type will help you find what's your thing, chicken wing.

For good gambling routines, try Darwin Ortiz. For manips, Mr McBride. For mentalism, Derren Brown. Comedy, Mr Tamarez etc...

Mr Hallas mentions Ed Marlo's Ace Assembly and if he is referring to the one where the Aces finish off returning to their respective talons, then yes, it is worth traking down.

Ed demonstrates this on 'The Cardician' video and blows Jack Avis et al off their seats.

If you want to practice some different sleights, try bottom dealing so then you can move onto centre dealing. Look to Marlo's 'Seconds, centres and bottoms'

If you can already palm, some colour changes would come easily. And what about florishes, and let's not forget card spinning/shooting. Lennart Green has some good ideas on all of the above as does Mr Marlo.

So much to do, so little time.
Message: Posted by: Michael Peterson (May 14, 2002 03:58PM)
Martin Nash has a non gaffed version of the Mcdonalds aces, it can be found on volume 2 of his Master card magician series.
Message: Posted by: Scott F. Guinn (May 15, 2002 03:09AM)
[quote]
On 2002-05-14 02:41, Christof wrote:

I hate the classic plot of simply finding a chosen card. There must be more interesting effects!
My routines so far:
- ambitious card
- signature transpo
- card to pocket, 51 cards to pocket
- card, saltshaker and forehead (Michael Close)
- that opener by Dai Vernon (you make a prediction, production of three queens. predictions turns out to be an ace et voilą the three cards become aces too)
- folded card to anywhere
- that intercessor effect

[/quote]Interesting... Card to pocket, the Close routine, the Vernon effect, the card to anywhere and the intercessor are all just examples of locations (finding a chosen card), which is one of the most powerful effects in card magic.

Like so many things, it is the [i]WAY[/i] you find it that makes it interesting and amazing!
Message: Posted by: Paul (May 15, 2002 08:53AM)
Hey Ichazod, that's one I already mentioned! But at least you gave a later source for it :)

No, Mr X, the Marlo one wasn't one where the aces go back to their original packets (though Marlo has a few of those) which is a plot originated by David Solomon. I prefer the Ackerman version (with a twist of my own at the end) though have seen recently David Neighbors has some nice work in this area.

Paul Hallas.
Message: Posted by: Garrett Nelson (May 15, 2002 12:24PM)
The aces to pockets comment reminds me that it might serve you well to look into Guy Hollingworths stuff. Some is difficult, some isn't too bad. Most of it is pretty far from the "standard" card effects you seem to want to stay away from.
Message: Posted by: Martin_H (May 23, 2002 03:40AM)
Christof .. a real good source is the classic magic of Larry Jennings!
Also David Regal has some very nice and "modern" stuff on his tapes from L&L..
It depends on what you are looking for and what fits your presentation style...but with the moves you mentioned, you have great tools .. what you create out of them is your choice :)
Martin
Message: Posted by: Geoff Williams (May 23, 2002 12:00PM)
[quote]
On 2002-05-14 14:06, Gunney wrote:
So you would disagree with Dariel Fitzgee who said that the definition of a classic is an effect that is easy enough for the majority of magicians to do?
[/quote]

I believe a "classic" is an effect which has stood the test of time and gained wide acceptance. They are de facto standards from which other routines evolve.

It deals more with the plot than the method or how easy it is to do. Spellbound, Cups & Balls, Matrix and Professor's Nightmare are classics.

The "Three Ropes and a Baby" rope routine is fantastic and Daryl's "The Hole Card Trick" is very entertaining...but they're not classics...

...at least, not yet...
Message: Posted by: groovy (May 23, 2002 12:52PM)
A nice non-gaffed McDonalds Aces is Jay Sankey's 'Some Assembly Required', featured on his 'Sankey Very Much' video.

Groovy