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Topic: Tenyo Zig Zags
Message: Posted by: Inert (Aug 9, 2012 10:40AM)
There is no use asking what is Tenyo's best 'Zig Zag' illusion as almost everyone would pick 'Side Track'. So, the question becomes, what is Tenyo's 2nd best 'Zig Zag' effect? I have added 'Side Track' to the below listing just to show the evolution of this type of trick. The other question I have is, would the 'Side Track' principle have worked on a regular poker sized playing card? Thanx all.

T-110 Zig Zag Cig & Zig Zag Skeleton
T-118 Side Track
T-141 Mini-Zag
T-146 Clean Cut (not really a zig zag, but we'll allow it :))
T-159 Twister/Pencilia
T-179 Trisector
T-226 President's Cabinet
Message: Posted by: Mark F (Aug 9, 2012 12:12PM)
I'm a fan of Presidents Cabinet - mainly because its so cool looking and funny. It's nothing more than a novelty but still very clever. Trisector is cool but someone once pointed out that the device is too big for it to seem magical. But those mechanics in Trisector are some of the best, most complicated mechanics of all Tenyo devices - I'm a fan of the mechanical pieces.

I'm terrible at figuring most tricks out but I can almost always figure out a zig zag trick. Mini-Zag for instance is pretty cool when you see it once but not hard to understand the method. Side Track is really cool to watch but if it was magic would you really need that thick folder?
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Aug 9, 2012 12:20PM)
I love Side Track, but Mini-Zag is one amazing illusion! I love it.
Message: Posted by: magic patagonia (Aug 9, 2012 12:25PM)
My vote for Twister/Pencilia and Trisector
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Aug 9, 2012 12:44PM)
Twister/Pencilia & Zig Zag Skeleton.
Message: Posted by: stereo (Aug 9, 2012 01:29PM)
For me the best of all is Twister (before Side Track), I love all in this trick, effect, design, gimmick , it's weird that this one is discontinued !
Trisector is amazing mechanics.
Message: Posted by: meridianfan (Aug 12, 2012 07:17AM)
Mini-zag is really cool, and it is probably my favorite. I think it is more effective to pull out the card only a little bit.

John
Message: Posted by: Inert (Aug 13, 2012 12:27PM)
Well, I guess it's safe to say that 'Clean Cut' won this 1. :)

No one answered the other question. I do not use jumbo cards, so I do not own Side Track. I'll re-phrase. If Side Track was made to scale of a poker sized playing card, would the effect still work? I am not trying to sneak the secret, I just want to know if the principle would work on a smaller scale. Thanx.
Message: Posted by: stereo (Aug 13, 2012 02:01PM)
Yes it can work with regular poker size.
Message: Posted by: Inert (Aug 14, 2012 11:23AM)
Is there any truth to the rumor that the Stereo Super Secret Tech Lab Facility is deep in think tank mode of fabricating this in poker size in an ongoing valiant attempt to try to top the excellent 'Four Chance Game'? :)
Message: Posted by: stereo (Aug 14, 2012 01:51PM)
No way... I have been vaccinated this kind of absurd ideas lol
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Aug 15, 2012 05:58AM)
Would be great to see a miniature version of this one. Shouldn't be THAT hard to make if you're handy which I am not ;)
Message: Posted by: Inert (Aug 15, 2012 08:56AM)
Killer & I never told you this before, Stereo...your vaccination was a placebo only. :)
Message: Posted by: magic patagonia (Aug 15, 2012 12:03PM)
[quote]
On 2012-08-15 06:58, Killertweety wrote:
Would be great to see a miniature version of this one. Shouldn't be THAT hard to make if you're handy which I am not ;)
[/quote]
I think Magic Wagon could perfectly make something like this.
Message: Posted by: Illusionist (Jan 6, 2013 11:05AM)
Mini Zag all the way baby :) the others had methods that resembled other stuff like zig zag cig, or that were to obvious for me.
Message: Posted by: cyberdave03 (Jan 6, 2013 11:56AM)
The problem with Mini Zag is the method is rather obvious.
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Jan 6, 2013 01:52PM)
I don't think the method for Mini-Zag is obvious at all. YOU know how it works, but laymen watching the trick don't. Of course you don't want to linger with the gimmick in view for more than 3 seconds or so. That's all the time you need to create the effect. I really don't see how it could be obvious or visible unless it was held in plain view for too long or at the wrong angle.
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Jan 6, 2013 02:38PM)
A cool way to perform Mini Zag is by forcing a card from a deck and then Zagging the card.

You can easily make the sliding piece for Mini-Zag. You do not have to stick with the card and gimmick they supply.

You just need a second copy of the force card and trim it with an razor knife.

A Svengali Deck would be perfect for this as there are plenty of duplicates of the force card and it is easy to make the force.

Try it you'll like it.
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Jan 6, 2013 05:07PM)
There are so many good forces that don't require a sleight, it's hard to imagine why one would need to resort to a gimmicked deck of any kind. The Henry Christ Cut Deeper Force or Max Holden Cross-Cut Force, and even the Hindu Shuffle Force, always work on laymen.
Message: Posted by: cyberdave03 (Jan 6, 2013 05:43PM)
[quote]I don't think the method for Mini-Zag is obvious at all. YOU know how it works, but laymen watching the trick don't.[/quote]

I don't know how this trick works. I don't own it. But I when I saw the demo, I was 99.9% certain of the method, it was that obvious, and you confirmed it (or at least, you temporarily did).

Wonder Window is another example. I showed the demo for that to 4 different people, and asked each how they liked it, to which they said it was pretty good. Then I asked them how they thought it was done, and 3 out of the 4 figured it out. You may not think the method looks obvious, because the spectator doesn't say anything, but they're quietly working it out in their head.
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Jan 6, 2013 06:09PM)
You're a magician, so telling me that you figured out isn't the correct analogy.

You'd have to present "Wonder Window" really poorly in order for someone to figure it out.
Message: Posted by: cyberdave03 (Jan 6, 2013 07:25PM)
[quote]You'd have to present "Wonder Window" really poorly in order for someone to figure it out.[/quote]

Well then, I guess in your opinion, Magic Patagonia/Cormatches doesn't know s**t about presenting and recording Tenyo magic.
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Jan 6, 2013 07:53PM)
[quote]
On 2013-01-06 18:07, Richard Kaufman wrote:
There are so many good forces that don't require a sleight, it's hard to imagine why one would need to resort to a gimmicked deck of any kind. The Henry Christ Cut Deeper Force or Max Holden Cross-Cut Force, and even the Hindu Shuffle Force, always work on laymen.
[/quote]

I mentioned the Svengali Deck because you get the extra card to cut up for the Mini Zag so you do not ruin an entire deck for one card.

I am not good at figuring out tricks at all but sometimes I do get it right away. Wonder Window was one I got right away.

I think for each trick you have to consider your audience.

For Christmas I carried my Tenyo case which has 70 Tenyo that I can confidently perform. I wound up with an anxious audience of a 8 year old and a 4 year old. So I looked at my case a pulled out Crash Dice. I was merely using it as a container to hold all the dice for the various tricks in the case. Well that was a big hit, they loved it. But it is not something that I would do for an older audience.

You can find the right audience for Wonder Window but it should not contain someone whose sole purpose is to figure out everything you are doing because they will get it right. The problem is there are not a lot of ways to consider how it is done so their first guess will most likely be correct.

Just my experiences and opinion.
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Jan 6, 2013 11:00PM)
Cyberdave: Magic is a performing art meant to be performed and seen live, not on videos on the internet. Have you performed "Wonder Window" for people? I have. No one twigs to the method.

Rather than showing videos to laymen and asking what they think, I would suggest that it's much better to perform the trick yourself.
Message: Posted by: cyberdave03 (Jan 7, 2013 11:30AM)
[quote]Magic is a performing art meant to be performed and seen live, not on videos on the internet.[/quote]

That's a steaming pile, if I've ever seen one. I have a number of Tenyo tricks that MP has done on video (in fact, I acquired some because of his videos). Except for the beginning of 'Tunnel of Darkness', the way they look live when I present them is exactly the way they look on his videos. Your blame is misplaced.

No one twigs to the method? How do you know? Did you ask everyone you performed this for? As above, when I showed the demo to different people, no one said a thing about the method until I specifically asked, when the majority then revealed they had figured it out.
Message: Posted by: mirror mate (Jan 28, 2013 10:47AM)
Hey guys my fave all time ZIG ZAG trick is Twister/pencillia <after sidetrack> of course, can anybody tell me why it is sometimes referred to as pencilia? as ive never ever seen that name on the packaging or anything? anyone know?? THANKS M M
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Jan 28, 2013 03:20PM)
I can tell from the reactions of people I perform for if they're fooled. I've been doing magic for over over 4 decades, so my radar is pretty good. (You can insert your "old fart" comment here.)

Just the other day, when Wizard of Oz and I got together at the Magi-Fest, he had never seen a Side Track and I did it for him. I think he was pretty impressed, but he can give his opinion.
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Jan 28, 2013 07:52PM)
I was impressed indeed. I didn't want to know the secret, and you didn't tell me. I like to try and figure these things out. Still haven't...but I don't give up easily.

I believe I laid awake for a couple of nights trying to figure out Prison Box. Angelo owes me some sleep for that one. As a matter of fact, Crystal Cleaver kept me awake as well...damn. I think I have a Tenyo law suit I should be planning. Loss of sleep due to diabolical methodology...that has to be illegal, right?
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Jan 28, 2013 10:29PM)
The only unfortunate thing about Side Track is that it can't be examined, but the illusion is so strong when you remove the jumbo card, that it's the only thing they want to see. The case doesn't seem to attract any attention after the effect.
Message: Posted by: Julie (Jan 29, 2013 12:36AM)
We always used the Jumbo Sidetrack case ostensively to hold the jumbo card for performing the first part of Don Alan's Big Deal.

Then, almost as an afterthought, performed the zig-zag effect.

Julie
Message: Posted by: WalterPlinge (Feb 15, 2013 07:28PM)
My favorite zig-zag is Tri-sector. What's great is that you can do it with different bills and aren't stuck with a $1.
Message: Posted by: magic patagonia (Feb 16, 2013 12:08AM)
[quote]
On 2013-02-15 20:28, WalterPlinge wrote:
My favorite zig-zag is Tri-sector. What's great is that you can do it with different bills and aren't stuck with a $1.
[/quote]
I think Tri-Sector could qualify as one of the most elaborate/intricate apparatus made by Tenyo...