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Topic: Ye Olde Magick Blogge?
Message: Posted by: Laurent van Trigt (Sep 12, 2012 05:27AM)
Does anyone know what happened to Ye Olde Magick Blogge? It says on sleightly.com/blog is has been discontinued. I really loved that blog.
Message: Posted by: Vincero (Sep 12, 2012 05:35AM)
Yeah: it got old.
Message: Posted by: Vlad_77 (Sep 12, 2012 06:36AM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-12 06:35, Vincero wrote:
Yeah: it got old.
[/quote]

:lol: Nice!!
Message: Posted by: mlippo (Sep 12, 2012 06:50AM)
I'm missing it. I used to visit it almost everyday to see if there was something new. I like his style and often agreed with what he wrote. I followed all his 365 project.

mlippo
Message: Posted by: Roland Henning (Sep 12, 2012 09:05AM)
He wrote me a lengthy email about it: Here it is
http://weeklymagicfailure.blogspot.de/2012/09/farewell.html
Message: Posted by: Uli Weigel (Sep 12, 2012 09:44AM)
This is sad news indeed. There are only a couple of worthwhile magic blogs left anyway, and now one of the top five bloggers stops blogging because of some sociopathic ***. It's hard to believe, what talking about magic can lead to.
Message: Posted by: Cain (Sep 12, 2012 10:18AM)
I tried commenting on the "I LOVE children" post. It wouldn't let me.
Message: Posted by: Steven Youell (Sep 12, 2012 10:48AM)
I don't quite understand why the Mule, Roland and Andrew are all now complaining about personal attacks when they all three have blogs that are pretty much dedicated to making such attacks. Google "Steven Youell Magic" and see what happens. It used to be that over six pages of "The Weekly Magic Failure" showed up, telling people how I suck as a Magician.

How's that for affecting a guy's living?

Certainly I've committed my share of personal attacks, but at the very least, I have not dedicated a blog to them. And it's always been with someone I've had a dispute with. This is the last time I'll post regarding this subject. I just wanted to share my perspective.

SEY
Message: Posted by: Albatros (Sep 12, 2012 11:25AM)
It always disturbed me how personal people act in the relative security (and often anonymity) of the internet. It is one thing to spit out an insult in a face to face situation, but leaving such marks on the internet for all to be seen is a completely different level.

I really enjoyed reading Ye Olde Magick Blogge (and I still enjoy reading several other blogs) but true as hell some of their posts left me disturbed. But then again this is not only restricted to blogs - sadly this keeps happening here on the café as well. So many topics which I abandoned reading because of the personal disgusting level of interaction...

Well - all I can say is that I hope everybody will move on and this will be just another piece of the internets weird history. And maybe those blogs will get back to discuss old books, effects, handlings, ideas...

All the best,
Sven ^^
Message: Posted by: Devious (Sep 12, 2012 11:54AM)
See, this is exactly the reason that I stay away from card tricks.
Message: Posted by: MagicofDesperado (Sep 12, 2012 12:14PM)
Hahahahaa Devious!

Dave
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Sep 12, 2012 12:51PM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-12 12:54, Devious wrote:
See, this is exactly the reason that I stay away from card tricks.
[/quote]

You always know how to break the pattern with some levity.

Thanks for being YOU!
Message: Posted by: Uli Weigel (Sep 12, 2012 01:54PM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-12 11:48, Steven Youell wrote:
I don't quite understand why the Mule, Roland and Andrew are all now complaining about personal attacks when they all three have blogs that are pretty much dedicated to making such attacks.
[/quote]

I'm a reader of those blogs pretty much from the outset. It is simply not true, that any of the above mentioned blogs are "dedicated" to making personal attacks. They are certainly critical, biting, at times opinionated and harsh but it's also very clear that all three bloggers do care deeply about magic. They offer informed opinions and they have a comment section, which allows readers to offer their opinions. You may agree or disagree or simply ignore what they say. But neither Roland, Andrew or the Mule ever crossed the line and spread blatant lies, false accusations or worse.

This Jerry Lukins person, whoever he is, has crossed the line by a mile. It is disgusting, to say the least.
Message: Posted by: cirrus (Sep 12, 2012 02:31PM)
I loved those blogs, because they helped me think critically over much of my magic. It offered theories not found in any book on magic.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Sep 12, 2012 04:24PM)
"They are certainly critical, biting...and harsh..."


"...neither Roland, Andrew or the Mule ever crossed the line and spread blatant lies, false accusations or worse."


When you've got the former, the latter doesn't really matter to someone who wants to even a score. Frankly, I'm surprised we don't hear about this kind of thing much more often than we do. If one is going to be critical, biting and harsh, someone will eventually come along who will bite back, and won't be too concerned with where and how he takes that bite.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Sep 12, 2012 05:01PM)
The thing is, many people have left insulting comments on Andrew's, Roland's and Mule's blogs. The comments get printed and responded to. Many people on this forum have been fairly ***ing of Andrew in particular. Often, his performance videos have been chewed up and spat out. That is fair criticism. Just as what Andrew wrote is fair criticism. I'm not saying I agree with any of it.

Whoever the author is, perhaps they could take that post down? The one that insinuates sex acts with minors? No class at all.
Message: Posted by: mlippo (Sep 13, 2012 02:04AM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-12 15:31, cirrus wrote:
I loved those blogs, because they helped me think critically over much of my magic. It offered theories not found in any book on magic.
[/quote]

+1!!!

mlippo
Message: Posted by: Vlad_77 (Sep 13, 2012 08:10AM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-12 11:48, Steven Youell wrote:
I don't quite understand why the Mule, Roland and Andrew are all now complaining about personal attacks when they all three have blogs that are pretty much dedicated to making such attacks. Google "Steven Youell Magic" and see what happens. It used to be that over six pages of "The Weekly Magic Failure" showed up, telling people how I suck as a Magician.

How's that for affecting a guy's living?

Certainly I've committed my share of personal attacks, but at the very least, I have not dedicated a blog to them. And it's always been with someone I've had a dispute with. This is the last time I'll post regarding this subject. I just wanted to share my perspective.

SEY
[/quote]

I did the Google search as Steven suggested and sure enough, the first two Google entries were indeed from Roland Hennings' blog. Considering the niche nature of magic and how meta-tagging works in search engines, this was no accident, and no, MILLIONS of people do not read Roland Hennings' blog. I visited there TWICE and all I read was vitriol. So many magic failures listed there. Why Roland? For you and for the mods I write here and now for the record that this is NOT a flame. It IS however a question that needs to be asked: Why are you doing this and whyb are certain people singled out? Basing my hypothesis again on Google meta tags and the amount of subscribers to your site as oppsed to a mainstream site such as IMDb.com, I found something interesting: As I said, I did the Google search on Steven Youell and the top two searcgh returns were the WMF entries from December 2009 and June 2012. When I used the SAME terms but substituted Shawn Farquhar's name - and bear in mind that he is listed as a WMF on yoiur site, the top entries do not link to your site but to Shawn's! The WMF entry occurs near the very end of the page. A search on Harry Lorayne reveals that HIS WMF entry occurs THIRD on the first Google search result. Seems like Youell and Loryane are targets Roland. Why? I read the entries and also your rubric for what constitues a WMF. To your credit you even listed yourself as a "Meany." You state, "Most of the Weekly Magic Failures are not awarded for being bad. Mostly for being liars, cheaters, cowards, schmucks, stinkers and that sort of stuff. (Hell, I awarded myself for being a Meany) So Shawn basically got the title WMF for being cheap. "What caught my eye was the term "liar." Bear with me please? You ALSO stated (concerning Steven Youell), "But that is not the reason he was awarded the awesome title WMF. No he got it because of his behaviour on the magic café. The owner of the magic café Steve Brooks is a good friend of Steven Youell. And that gives him certain powers. Editing powers. Steven Youell denied that in a few conversations I had with him. But I do not believe him. I heard so many first hand stories of friends of mine, of threads disappearing or being closed with Youell having the last word." Really Roland? You are essentially stating that "first hand conversations" lead to the "fact" that Youell has ëditing powers?" Loose lips sink ships I believe was the World War II term in America. But you state you have screenshots of Youell and PMs: "And he sends out private messages threatening other users not to mess with the mighty Steven Youell. (I have screenshots to back that up)" If that is true Roland, why have you not posted the screenshots. Ahh but therein lies another problem: Of what value is a screenshot of words? I think you would agree that such can be altered. But giving you the benefit of the ddoubt, you have made a very serious accusation yet provide nothing more than anecdotal proof. Respectfully submitted but it doesn't bode well for YOUR veracity and its relationship to the very rubric you established on your blog.

Have you ALSO considered that the sharing of Private Messages that are NOT yours but come from others may ALSO be untruths?

I watched your performances from Focus and your technique is fine Roland. But why the viriol? What has entitled you to police and possibly slander others? Yes it is your own playground, BUT, The Café is not.

So I ask again Roland, and RESPECTFULLY (caps for emphasis) why are you doing this? What purpose does it serve?

I realize that I may get banned for this or that this post may be deleted. If that is the case, then the moderators have that right of course.

Namaste,
Vlad
Message: Posted by: Kontents (Sep 13, 2012 11:22AM)
Grumpy Old Men.
Message: Posted by: Justin W. (Sep 13, 2012 01:01PM)
[quote]
telling people how I suck as a Magician.
[/quote]

Being accused of sucking at magic tricks in no way, shape, or form compares to being accused of pedophilia. Why such an important clarification was scrubbed from this thread is beyond me.
Message: Posted by: Roland Henning (Sep 13, 2012 02:36PM)
Hi Vlad,

Your Google knowledge might not be correct. I don't even know how it works correctly. I certainly did not make sure that HL and SEY are popping up in connection to my little blog. That simply happens. I made nothing magically work that way. I even removed the biggest entry towards SEY because he asked me to. And I felt sorry for what my blog has caused so I removed the very first post I ever made 3 and a half years ago.

Answering your initial question on why... well I guess it boils down to the fact that I love magic more than magicians. Hurting magic, by shabby business practice, exposing magic and all the things my blog is about is something I cannot stand. I need to speak out. I remained silent for a long time, and as soon as I spoke about it I felt liberated. I'm not the first one, I'm not creative in that regard. I just love magic and I hate it being treated the wrong way.

Who am I to decide what is right and wrong? Am not deciding, I'm choosing. I choose to speak out expecting the worst. And at times it happened. I have had haters but also people who tell me what I'm doing is needed. They don't always agree with me, but that's not the point. We don't have to agree. We can have different opinions. And we can talk about them. I used to speak out here at the forum. Most threads got deleted. That's why I have a blog. Everyone can participate and tell me his opinion. And you know what. That is a good thing. Most of the time.

That's why I wasn't all that mad about Jerry Lukins. Amused, but not mad. I don't care about my haters. I care about magic.
Message: Posted by: Cain (Sep 13, 2012 05:00PM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-13 14:01, Justin W. wrote:
Why such an important clarification was scrubbed from this thread is beyond me.
[/quote]

Forget it, Justin. It's the Café.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Sep 13, 2012 08:19PM)
I don't even know what this is about, but gotta say that Steven Youell has never been other than gracious and courteous to me... never.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Sep 13, 2012 09:53PM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-13 18:00, Cain wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-09-13 14:01, Justin W. wrote:
Why such an important clarification was scrubbed from this thread is beyond me.
[/quote]

Forget it, Justin. It's the Café.
[/quote]

Maybe because clarification wasn't needed? I didn't think so, for what its worth. Steven picked a wrong example to make a more general comparison, but it seemed pretty clear what he was trying to say. But better to let him speak for himself, should he decide to again post again in this topic.
Message: Posted by: Vincero (Sep 14, 2012 05:30AM)
Really, the amount of hypocrisy in this thread is astounding; anybody who promotes the blog "Larry Horayne" is a complete ******.

With this in mind, you CLEARLY have absoloutely NO RIGHT to critique "Jerry Lukins" and his paedo insinuation(s). Especially in light of the fact that you're all getting-off at the thought of an old man being pinned under a bookshelf ****ting himself. Quit playing the defamatory card - which must, by the way, be a queen - and grow a sack. Believe it or not folks, the "Larry Horayne" blog entails even worse than the above: it includes a number of other members here, and openly degrades them: Vlad, MickyPainless (what the hell did he ever do?), Steven Youell, et al.

So all this ******** about "loving magic more than loving magicians", is well... ********. In fact, no, it's worse than that; It's bull-crap cowering under the pretense of satire. Utterly poor form; If you're going to do it, then do it properly. And this is coming from somebody with NO personal angst against ANY of the members in question.

Maybe all of the magic blogger's should just bugger off; 9/10 seem like they're out to kill, and even then, they suck at it.

Zac

PS - If you can catch the irony of the last four words of my post, then you might be qualified to start writing tasteful satire. I jest, I jest.
Message: Posted by: Vincero (Sep 14, 2012 05:41AM)
And no, I don't condone Lukins' comments... But this is fire against fire.
Message: Posted by: Justin W. (Sep 14, 2012 11:26AM)
[quote]
Especially in light of the fact that you're all getting-off at the thought of an old man being pinned under a bookshelf ****ting himself.
[/quote]

Getting off? Moi?

If you're referring to a fictional, absurdist character being pinned under a bookshelf (written as an inconsequential bookend to an extremely substantial and well-considered book review), then, um, actually, no. We're not "getting off" at that. Nice try, though.

[quote]
- which must, by the way, be a queen -
[/quote]

Ho ho! I get it! It's funny because of gay!

[quote]
Believe it or not folks, the "Larry Horayne" blog entails even worse than the above: it includes a number of other members here, and openly degrades them: Vlad, MickyPainless (what the hell did he ever do?), Steven Youell, et al.
[/quote]

Genuine request--

Would you kindly point out passages in which said degradation of these chaps constitutes as [i]worse[/i] than accusing a teacher of young children that he does, in fact, sexually molest young children?

I'm doing a little hunting, and these are the only instances in which those men are mentioned:

(strong language ahead, guys and girls)

--http://larryhorayne.wordpress.com/2012/07/19/whenever-im-on-the-cafe-i-feel-the-need/
--He implies Vlad "can’t do the work, [doesn't] own the books [and doesn't] even understand what is going on." http://bit.ly/RWWqDl (link shortened for profanity in the URL)
--As for the "et al.," he'll occasionally call Café'ers idiots and nerds and variations thereof. Standard stuff. If [i]that[/i] kind of "degradation" bothers you, I advise you stay away from pretty much every other forum or blog.

[quote]
So all this ******** about "loving magic more than loving magicians", is well... ********. In fact, no, it's worse than that; It's bull-crap cowering under the pretense of satire.
[/quote]

You're getting confused here. How is Roland's statement satire?

Smiling politely,
Justin
Message: Posted by: Steven Youell (Sep 14, 2012 01:19PM)
[url=http://www.stevenyouell.com/Apology.html]Here is my answer.[/url]

I'll be in a Bomb Shelter for a while.

SEY
Message: Posted by: Jimeh (Sep 14, 2012 01:55PM)
Welllllllll there ya have it...

I like both Steven and Andrew. I hope everyone moves forward in a more positive direction (Or at the very least give eachother some breathing room.)
Message: Posted by: Vlad_77 (Sep 14, 2012 04:22PM)
Wow Thanks Zac for information brother!

Roland, I am HONORED to be a WMF!!! Had Zac not told me, I would never have known. At this point I would like to thank the Academy ...

Seriously Roland, write all you want about me. You don't know me and I don't know you. But, I DO have an idea: we live in neighboring countries. Let's do a positive spin on this and organize a WMF magic show for a charity. I am deadly serious Roland. For all the vitriol in the world maybe some good can come out of it to shed some POSITIVES in the art. Post here Roland if you are interested. There are plenty of charities who would LOVE to have a show. Give it some thought.

In the meantime, I wear the badge of failure proudly and will continue to conduct myself here as I always have. Your approval means nothing to me, but your sense of humanirty in considering to help organize a charity gig either in Germany or The Netherlands DOES.

It's your call.

Oh and Roland?

Namaste.

Vlad
Message: Posted by: Cain (Sep 14, 2012 04:23PM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-14 14:19, Steven Youell wrote:
[url=http://www.stevenyouell.com/Apology.html]Here is my answer.[/url]
[/quote]

Pathetic.
Message: Posted by: Roland Henning (Sep 14, 2012 04:34PM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-14 17:22, Vlad_77 wrote:
Roland, I am HONORED to be a WMF!!!
[/quote]

Wait, when did that happen? Don't spread rumors here!
Message: Posted by: Laurent van Trigt (Sep 14, 2012 05:34PM)
I guess that answers my question.
Message: Posted by: Vincero (Sep 14, 2012 05:37PM)
Apologies, my last response was jaded by anger at the hypocrisy of this whole affair. Justin, I didn't phrase myself properly. When I said "It gets worse than the above", I was talking about the "Larry Horayne" blog and its defamatory nature. Obviously, implying that a teacher (my own part-time, soon to be full-time profession) molests children is disgusting. I simply wanted to point out the irony however, of trying to take a moral high-ground that is smeared in its own sh*t.

I haven't checked your links because to me, the quantity is irrelevant. Comments about "cock-slapping MickyPainless' Mustache" -- ho ho! I get it, its gay -- are hardly in good jest. The Horayne blog was my target for "cowardice hiding under the pretense of satire", by which some of the bloggers in this thread are (indirectly) implicated. Again, I apologise because I didn't articulate myself effectively. Indeed, perhaps "parody" would have been a better word.

To be honest, I'm pretty disappointed with most of the bloggers mentioned in this thread, from SEY to Andrew Musgrave. I don't have enemies here; Justin I enjoy reading a lot of your posts, same to Cain and others. It's the bitterness of these blogging shenanigans that stings because there's clearly talent out there and I feel like its being poured down the wrong avenues: i.e. the drain. That's the only thing I have against the blogs in question; they're all defamatory and after approving one its somewhat problamatic to disapprove of another that goes "a bit to far". But yes, insinuations of paedophilia -- in my opinion -- cross the line. Not cool.

Again, sincere apologies for the rant. Generally, I pride myself on being composed, but this scenario has been a testing one for everybody. Time to return to helping out others methinks.

Keep calm and carry on,

Zac
Message: Posted by: Steven Youell (Sep 14, 2012 08:00PM)
I'll take the link down later tonight.

If you want the full text, just download the PDF.

SEY
Message: Posted by: duanebarry (Sep 14, 2012 10:55PM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-14 17:23, Cain wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-09-14 14:19, Steven Youell wrote:
[url=http://www.stevenyouell.com/Apology.html]Here is my answer.[/url]
[/quote]
Pathetic.
[/quote]
Despicable.

Reprehensible.
Message: Posted by: Alewishus (Sep 15, 2012 01:15AM)
So, what's the thinking on the pass: ie. who's right?


A.
Message: Posted by: Vlad_77 (Sep 15, 2012 08:05AM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-14 17:34, Roland Henning wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-09-14 17:22, Vlad_77 wrote:
Roland, I am HONORED to be a WMF!!!
[/quote]

Wait, when did that happen? Don't spread rumors here!
[/quote]

Roland,

Read your own blog and your constant and ironic misuse of the word "Ahimsa" connected with the name Vlad. Continue your Larry Horayne nonsense and I will continue being moribund.

Interesting Roland that you didn't address my idea however.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Sep 15, 2012 10:03AM)
I think it is a different blog you are thinking of, Vlad, not Roland's.

Shalom.
Message: Posted by: Robert P. (Sep 15, 2012 10:10AM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-15 09:18, Vlad_77 wrote:
2. These blogs - especially the ones singling out Youell and Lorayne ARE reprehensible. What purpose do they serve??!!!
[/quote]

Exactly. All the name-calling and bickering is juvenile and foolish. I swear, it's like these people are still in high school, scratch that, junior high. Kids in my high school acted more mature than this. People need to grow up.
Message: Posted by: Roland Henning (Sep 15, 2012 06:16PM)
Hi Vlad I think you got it all wrong. I'm not Larry Horane. I only have that blog on my blog roll. Also, I didn't make any statement regarding the apology of Steven Youell.
Message: Posted by: Steven Youell (Sep 15, 2012 06:44PM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-15 19:16, Roland Henning wrote:
Also, I didn't make any statement regarding the apology of Steven Youell.[/quote]
Not here you didn't. But on your blog you wrote:

"He spent more time attacking Andrew again, then apologizing. Sad!"

SEY
Message: Posted by: Steven Youell (Sep 16, 2012 06:30PM)
One more thing. I predict that in the next few weeks/months, there will be a barrage of attacks from all three of these bloggers and probably other "anonymous" bloggers. Let's see if I'm right.

SEY
Message: Posted by: Alewishus (Sep 16, 2012 07:45PM)
I guess now wouldn't be a good time to link to a clip from my new video "Innocence of Marlo", or would it?

A.
Message: Posted by: uhrenschmied (Sep 17, 2012 08:12AM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-16 19:30, Steven Youell wrote:
One more thing. I predict that in the next few weeks/months, there will be a barrage of attacks from all three of these bloggers and probably other "anonymous" bloggers. Let's see if I'm right.

SEY
[/quote]

For somebody using an anonymous blog to make unfounded accusations against somebody, to claim the moral highground is, say, saucy.
As for your apology, it reads as sincere as the workers pledge.

Regards,
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Sep 17, 2012 08:36AM)
Saucy! I love it!!
Message: Posted by: necro555 (Sep 17, 2012 08:47AM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-15 09:18, Vlad_77 wrote:

I am FED UP with this ***T!!!!!!! So you know what, either have the GUTS and GRACE to accept Steven's apology and try to mend some fences where they can be mended or STHU!!! GROW UP AND GROW A PAIR.

Vlad_77 (got that Roland? Not Vlad_69)
[/quote]

Have the guts to accept an apology that wasn't really an apology? I guess I still have some growing up to do then.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Sep 17, 2012 08:49AM)
Here is what I learned from the blogs:

Card magic is no good.

Coin magic is a little better than card magic but still no good.

Steven Youell is no good.

People who like Mr. Youell are no good.

Wesley James is no good.

Richard Kaufman is no good.

So, after being enlightened by this wisdom, I believed there was nothing else to learn and quit reading blogs.
Message: Posted by: Vincero (Sep 17, 2012 04:35PM)
[quote]

For somebody using an anonymous blog to make unfounded accusations against somebody, to claim the moral highground is, say, saucy.
As for your apology, it reads as sincere as the workers pledge.

Regards,
[/quote]


Actually, I think you'll find that this one goes both ways.

The abuse has been bandied about across both "sides" for god knows how long. Too long. Thankfully, I'm not privy to the precise details, but from what I can gather, it seems like SEY has been on the receiving end of pretty much the same kind of abuse he was dishing out under the Lukins alias. Including the insinuation(s) of paedophilia. So again: this "moral high ground" business goes both ways.
Message: Posted by: Furniture (Sep 17, 2012 05:43PM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-16 19:30, Steven Youell wrote:
One more thing. I predict that in the next few weeks/months, there will be a barrage of attacks from all three of these bloggers and probably other "anonymous" bloggers. Let's see if I'm right.

SEY
[/quote]

It is not a smart bet to bet on these things. If you are wrong, that means that there are no attacks, and you lose the bet; but if you are right, you still lose because there has been a "barrage" of attacks.
Message: Posted by: Steven Youell (Sep 17, 2012 08:11PM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-17 18:43, Furniture wrote:
It is not a smart bet to bet on these things. If you are wrong, that means that there are no attacks, and you lose the bet; but if you are right, you still lose because there has been a "barrage" of attacks.[/quote]
That's OK. I think I'm at the point now where I don't have anything left to lose. I made the decisions that led up to this. I'm responsible for them. Whatever comes, it's my responsibility. Had I just ignored the things that I perceived as attacks over the last few years things would have been much more different.

But I didn't. And they aren't. My fault, my mistakes and my choices created the place I'm in now.
I change things and I can't fix them. So... I'll take option D.
Message: Posted by: uhrenschmied (Sep 18, 2012 05:05AM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-17 17:35, Vincero wrote:

Actually, I think you'll find that this one goes both ways.

The abuse has been bandied about across both "sides" for god knows how long. Too long. Thankfully, I'm not privy to the precise details, but from what I can gather, it seems like SEY has been on the receiving end of pretty much the same kind of abuse he was dishing out under the Lukins alias. Including the insinuation(s) of paedophilia. So again: this "moral high ground" business goes both ways.
[/quote]

Please quote where Andrew, Roland or the Mule mentioned paedophilia in regards of Mr. Youell. As far as I know Mr. Youell does not claim this.


Regards,
Message: Posted by: mlippo (Sep 18, 2012 06:41AM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-14 14:19, Steven Youell wrote:
[url=http://www.stevenyouell.com/Apology.html]Here is my answer.[/url]

I'll be in a Bomb Shelter for a while.

SEY
[/quote]

I'm disgusted.
Mr Youell, you can erase my name from your "new project" (I think you know what I am talking about).

Marco Lippolis

P.S.: I'll say it again. I miss The Olde Blogge. I really hope it will be back one day.
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Sep 18, 2012 10:17AM)
It saddens me when I read threads like this. I do not know any of the individuals in question, but I do know that the internet provides an indelible method for killing a reputation or a career.

I have known a lot of magicians in my life. Some of them are amazing professionals, but most of them are just hobbyists who practice and (sometimes) perform simply for the love of magic. All of them share this love. I admire the card guy who uses a beat-up deck of cards because he struggles to make ends meet just as much as I admire the illusionist with a full-blown Vegas-style show who doesn't have to worry where his next meal will come from.

I have never invented a trick (or even a "move", for that matter). My name is not dropped by other magicians. I love to read books written by others. I love to build from plans drawn by others. I love to routine using effects created by others. I love to watch performances done by others. I do not like everything I see. There are many well-known magicians whose performances I don't care for. Regardless, I recognize their abilities and their love for magic, and I would never trash them on a public forum.

We are such a small community. If we don't respect one another, we can't expect anyone else to respect us.
Message: Posted by: Robert P. (Sep 18, 2012 12:32PM)
I hope that everyone can just take a step back and take a look at the whole situation, and just move forward. I'm all for critiquing someone's work and giving an honest assessment but I'll still go with what I said earlier, blogs or posts singling out an individual person and attacking them do no good.

As much as I don't care for the way that some of the things are handled on the blogs, I appreciate that they provide an alternative perspective. I'd go about it differently than Roland does, but I still appreciate the passion he has. And at least from what I read on his site earlier this week, I didn't find any personal attacks. I hope that Andrew's blog will come back as well.

As for Steven's apology, I do think the one he just posted was sincere. Hopefully the recipients can find it in themselves to forgive but that's their choice. What ever the case I think we should be sensitive to Steven's condition.

[quote]
On 2012-09-18 11:17, ClintonMagus wrote:
We are such a small community. If we don't respect one another, we can't expect anyone else to respect us.
[/quote]

[i]*fist bumps*[/i]
Message: Posted by: nooner (Sep 20, 2012 09:01PM)
Very, very(!) positive post Doug. Reminds me of a passage by Carl Sagan called Pale Blue Dot. Really makes all the internet vitriol seem rather insignificant and wasteful. If you aren't familiar with the segment, give it a watch and (hopefully) be humbled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M
Message: Posted by: Alewishus (Sep 20, 2012 11:41PM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-20 20:01, Dougini wrote:

What is the answer?

God.

[/quote]

Seriously, if 'god' is the answer, then you better 'show your work' because you are not helping anyone.


A.
Message: Posted by: Slide (Sep 21, 2012 04:14PM)
Wow. What a disgusting group of childish, irresponsible individuals. I don't see that anyone in this story is better than anyone else. Blogs started in order to destroy a person's reputation. Other blogs started to retaliate and infer people are pedophiles. It is the grotesque immaturity of the people in the magic community that has killed any love I ever had for magic. The personal attacks, vitriol, real concerted efforts to not only destroy a person's livelihood but the person themselves. I have NEVER seen one group of individuals who I would less like to know in any way shape or form. for what? You don't like the way a guy teaches a PASS? You've all made me quite ill to my stomach.

Look for all my magic related items to be sold soon. I'm personally ashamed I ever had anything at all to do with magic or magicians.
Message: Posted by: Alewishus (Sep 21, 2012 04:54PM)
That's the spirit!

A.

Sorry if anyone infered that I was using "spirit" in anything but a secular manner, and sorry for my above post.
Message: Posted by: Roland Henning (Sep 21, 2012 07:03PM)
[quote]
I'm personally ashamed I ever had anything at all to do with magic or magicians.
[/quote]

That's why I started my blog.
Message: Posted by: Alewishus (Sep 22, 2012 01:43AM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-21 20:03, Roland Henning wrote:
[quote]
I'm personally ashamed I ever had anything at all to do with magic or magicians.
[/quote]

That's why I started my blog.
[/quote]

Cheers! And that's why we read it!

A.
Message: Posted by: Slide (Sep 23, 2012 09:28AM)
"That's why I started my blog."

Well, it worked.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Sep 23, 2012 10:03AM)
Slide - it is the nature of the Internet to bring out the worst in people, whether magicians or anyone else. I say this having been an administrator on a message board for aspiring screenwriters for eleven years. If you were a member there, you would also be disgusted at the way people with a common bond behave toward each other and would be shocked at some of their opinions. I could give a lot of examples, but the parallel with what goes on here makes it unnecessary to do so.

In short, my suggestion is to not give up on magic or magicians because of what you see here and on some blogs. The people I have met through my local club are a wonderful bunch. They do charitable work and contribute to the community, and are just fun to be around..

I do not know what it is about the World Wide Web that encourages some people to concentrate on the negative but that is the way it is. After glancing at a few of the various blogs, I decided to no longer visit them. I remain here because in spite of the occasional fight, there is much more interaction that is good. The fact is, most of the people here would get along just fine if they were in a room together, face to face.

Hang in there.
Message: Posted by: Devious (Sep 23, 2012 10:47AM)
Great People - discuss Ideas.
Good People - discuss events.
Average People - discuss other people.

P.s. Have your people call my people.
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Sep 23, 2012 11:06AM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-23 11:47, Devious wrote:
Great People - discuss Ideas.
Good People - discuss events.
Average People - discuss other people.

P.s. Have your people call my people.
[/quote]
I like that - thanks for posting it.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Sep 23, 2012 11:52AM)
I do not wish to be morbid but I would like for everyone to consider just how powerful the written word is, how simple "opinion sharing" can affect others whom we do not really know except as characters on the internet. One of the members of my board committed suicide after an exchange of opinions with several others on my board. He burned himself alive inside a car. There is a real world out there and many people take this stuff way too seriously. Think about what you write.
Message: Posted by: Laurent van Trigt (Sep 23, 2012 12:52PM)
Hey folks, I never thought my initial question was going to result in a thread like this one. I was just wondering what happened to Andrew's blogs. They were really great resources (possibly the best out there) on magic theory/psychology and I just loved Andrew's writing style. Whatever the reasons are, these blogs are now gone and I'm still hoping Andrew may reconsider getting back online. He's also left this forum after many years of constantly helping other magicians. So Andrew, if you are reading this, the magic community needs you!
Message: Posted by: mlippo (Sep 23, 2012 03:18PM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-23 13:52, Laurent van Trigt wrote:
Hey folks, I never thought my initial question was going to result in a thread like this one. I was just wondering what happened to Andrew's blogs. They were really great resources (possibly the best out there) on magic theory/psychology and I just loved Andrew's writing style. Whatever the reasons are, these blogs are now gone and I'm still hoping Andrew may reconsider getting back online. He's also left this forum after many years of constantly helping other magicians. So Andrew, if you are reading this, the magic community needs you!
[/quote]

+1000!!!!
Message: Posted by: Alewishus (Sep 24, 2012 02:58AM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-23 11:47, Devious wrote:
Great People - discuss Ideas.
Good People - discuss events.
Average People - discuss other people.

P.s. Have your people call my people.
[/quote]
We're talkin' about bull ****ter's here, right?

A.
Message: Posted by: Jimeh (Sep 24, 2012 02:43PM)
[quote]
There is a real world out there and many people take this stuff way too seriously. Think about what you write.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: FatHatter (Oct 2, 2012 11:31AM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-23 12:52, billmarq wrote:
I do not wish to be morbid but I would like for everyone to consider just how powerful the written word is, how simple "opinion sharing" can affect others whom we do not really know except as characters on the internet. One of the members of my board committed suicide after an exchange of opinions with several others on my board. He burned himself alive inside a car. There is a real world out there and many people take this stuff way too seriously. Think about what you write.
[/quote]

Condolences for your board member. That being said one is not responsible for how another reacts to the spoken word. Sticks & stones & mental health and all.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Oct 3, 2012 12:16AM)
[quote]
On 2012-10-02 12:31, FatHatter wrote:
Condolences for your board member. That being said one is not responsible for how another reacts to the spoken word. Sticks & stones & mental health and all.
[/quote]

There is however such a thing as responsibility for the consequences one's actions. I have a very real friend who, due to a tragedy, became an alcoholic within the last three years. He no longer lives anywhere near me but does frequent my board. He freely admits his condition and has been prone to alcoholic ramblings on our board. Another member suggested that he drink himself to death since he enjoyed it so much and that would be the best way to die. Would you consider that an appropriate remark? I don't, and yes I did deal with it. I also contacted my friend and offered to help him in any way I can. Life is too real. The people behind the "masks" are real people and the notion that words have no consequence or that the deliverer of the words has no responsibility is simply not true. I certainly would not want to know that I had contributed to the tragic demise of another human being.

I am not against criticising a bad magical performance or disagreeing with another person's opinion, but any intelligent person should be able to know where to draw the line. [i]Ad hominem[/i] attacks are out of place on a message board. Encouraging suicidal behaviour is wrong. I do not intend to sound "preachy" but I have seen enough tragedy in my life due to internet behaviour and really do wish that some people who post on boards would exercise better judgment. I've said enough. Thanks for reading.
Message: Posted by: FatHatter (Oct 3, 2012 10:56AM)
[quote]

There is however such a thing as responsibility for the consequences one's actions.
[/quote]

I'm guessing the last word in the sentence was gonna be causes. My interpretation of action is action not the spoken word.
Responsible for what one says? Yes, in that one would stand by what one says and speak the truth as one sees it. Responsible for another's reaction to the spoken word? Nope!


[quote]
Another member suggested that he drink himself to death since he enjoyed it so much and that would be the best way to die. Would you consider that an appropriate remark?
[/quote]

I do not consider it inappropriate. I have a good friend that advocates that position with regularity and fervor. Yes there are many different views expressed by the inhabitants of this world.

[quote]
Life is too real.
[/quote]

I think it is perfectly real and would have it no other way. Less Real = More Fake

If a person can't handle the written word they need to steer clear of the internet.
I will not be responsible for someone's perception.
Message: Posted by: imgic (Oct 3, 2012 03:57PM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-23 11:47, Devious wrote:
Great People - discuss Ideas.
Good People - discuss events.
Average People - discuss other people.

P.s. Have your people call my people.
[/quote]

I have no idea what you're talking about...
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Oct 3, 2012 05:48PM)
[quote]
On 2012-10-03 01:16, billmarq wrote:

There is however such a thing as responsibility for the consequences one's actions. I have a very real friend who, due to a tragedy, became an alcoholic within the last three years. He no longer lives anywhere near me but does frequent my board. He freely admits his condition and has been prone to alcoholic ramblings on our board. Another member suggested that he drink himself to death since he enjoyed it so much and that would be the best way to die. Would you consider that an appropriate remark? I don't, and yes I did deal with it. I also contacted my friend and offered to help him in any way I can. Life is too real. The people behind the "masks" are real people and the notion that words have no consequence or that the deliverer of the words has no responsibility is simply not true. I certainly would not want to know that I had contributed to the tragic demise of another human being.

I am not against criticising a bad magical performance or disagreeing with another person's opinion, but any intelligent person should be able to know where to draw the line. [i]Ad hominem[/i] attacks are out of place on a message board. Encouraging suicidal behaviour is wrong. I do not intend to sound "preachy" but I have seen enough tragedy in my life due to internet behaviour and really do wish that some people who post on boards would exercise better judgment. I've said enough. Thanks for reading.
[/quote]

+ 1, Bill.
Message: Posted by: billmarq (Oct 3, 2012 09:16PM)
Thanks, Chessman.

As for the earlier poster, I do not know how to respond to a person who believes it is "not inappropriate" to encourage another human being suffering from depression, who faces life by drinking himself unconscious on a daily basis, to go ahead and kill himself, and not assume some sort of responsibility if that scenario comes to pass.

I suppose it is time for me to move on to other topics. Magic, maybe.
Message: Posted by: FatHatter (Oct 4, 2012 09:35AM)
[quote]
On 2012-10-03 22:16, billmarq wrote:
Thanks, Chessman.

As for the earlier poster, I do not know how to respond to a person who believes it is "not inappropriate" to encourage another human being suffering from depression, who faces life by drinking himself unconscious on a daily basis, to go ahead and kill himself, and not assume some sort of responsibility if that scenario comes to pass.

I suppose it is time for me to move on to other topics. Magic, maybe.
[/quote]

Other poster here! There is no need for you to respond. I hope you realize that the way you perceive things isn't the only way and maybe, just maybe, you don't get to be "right" because there doesn't always have to be a right & wrong.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Oct 4, 2012 11:06AM)
[quote]
On 2012-10-04 10:35, FatHatter wrote:
I hope you realize that the way you perceive things isn't the only way and maybe, just maybe, you don't get to be "right" because there doesn't always have to be a right & wrong.
[/quote]

As long as you realize that this applies to you, as well.
Message: Posted by: FatHatter (Oct 4, 2012 11:26AM)
[quote]
On 2012-10-04 12:06, Chessmann wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-10-04 10:35, FatHatter wrote:
I hope you realize that the way you perceive things isn't the only way and maybe, just maybe, you don't get to be "right" because there doesn't always have to be a right & wrong.
[/quote]

As long as you realize that this applies to you, as well.
[/quote]

You must be kidding.
What kind of idiot would I be not to know that what with me saying it and all?

Seriously Chessman do you think you are responsible for the way someone reacts to something you said?
You: "How's it going?"
Guy having a very bad month: Punches you in the face.
You: "Well I shouldn't have offended you like that, sorry."

Extreme? You bet. Point is how are you to know what offends?
That and you carry the burden of being responsible for Guy having a very bad month's action?

Oh, Andrew needs to continue his blog. Good stuff in there, brain thinking kind of stuff.
Message: Posted by: wiffledust (Oct 31, 2012 11:46AM)
I agree 100 percent with billmarq. It is perfectly obvious to any normal objective human being that there is plenty of fault here on BOTH sides. I cringe at the perception laymen might have of magicians if they ever read this nonsense. Some changes definitely need to be made. I think a very good start would be for that awful Henning blog to be taken down or at the very least watered down dramatically. In it's present form it is an absolute disgrace.
Message: Posted by: Laurent van Trigt (Feb 26, 2013 10:48AM)
For those who have not noticed it yet, Andrew has started a new blog:
http://theburnabykid.com/blog/
Understandably, a lot is now password protected.
Message: Posted by: necro555 (Mar 3, 2013 09:32PM)
It's disappointing that circumstances have forced him to password protect certain posts