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Topic: A Book on Master Payne's Cup and Ball Routine?
Message: Posted by: Payne (Sep 30, 2012 07:08PM)
So would there be a market for this? Is it a different enough from Gazzo's and Vernons to warrant its own manuscript in the first place? Who would buy it and how much would you pay? Or should I bite the digital bullet and just go the DVD route?

Currently I'm working on a book for the Mediaeval\Renaissance performer which details the acts I've been doing for the last thirty years. Should the cups and balls be a chapter in this book or a whole separate document.

Anyone have any suggestions or comments on their poor mans poll?

For those who haven't seen this routine you can watch it here. http://vimeo.com/17200188
Message: Posted by: wsgumby (Sep 30, 2012 07:51PM)
Master, that is one of the most entertaining cups and balls routine I have ever seen. Very funny, and you managed to hold my attention for 16 minutes! Love the patter, love the outfit and I love those beautiful trtaditional cups. I think the routine could stand on its own as a separate book, but I would buy it in whatever form you decide to release it in.
Message: Posted by: cirrus (Sep 30, 2012 08:24PM)
Master payne,
I don't want to offend you, although it is very entertaining, I don't think it stands differently from the Vernon/Gazzo routine. The patter off course is orginally yours. I must say that you have one of the most entertaining versions of this routine (I don't even like Vernon's). Gazzo insults every single bystander during his effect (and it suits his character), your character is different from these, so your patter suits you perfectly. I love your routine, but don't consider it unique. I would make it a part of the book you are already writing.
I wouldn't dare to call it Vernon's routine anymore. You have seen and perfected it, to a much more entertaining piece.
Message: Posted by: pabloinus (Sep 30, 2012 08:43PM)
The Dvd done by Ammar retails for $26 at penguin and it is a very complete course on C&B, so with all the respect, yours can not cost me more than Ammar, and should be much less that his, Mendoza's DVD is around $30 and he has a very solid C&B routine and some other stuff.
I have seen routines sold by less known people for $40, not sure how many they sold, but personally I did not buy theirs, regardless how entertaining their were.

Personally I think that should be part of the fair book, however I am not sure how many people would buy a book on rennaisence fairs but I am sure you did your research.

I found you routine very entertaining and most likely I will pay to see you perform, not sure I would buy the routine, it is like gazzo's the personality of the perfomer makes the routine much better.

Media depends on how good you are at describing the details in writing, if you are not too detail, maybe a video is better, as far as the production of the video is good, with back and front takes, close up of the hands, etc. Ammar is good in both, Gazzo's booklet has many details, where to have the wand, where the balls, etc

I hope my comments are not too negative, but maybe I am not your target customer ( hobbist)

Good luck with your project

Pablo
Message: Posted by: Lawrence O (Oct 1, 2012 11:49AM)
Master Payne's routine is a masterpiece of scripting and a course in acting
Since the market is smaller than Michael Ammar's work on the C&Bs, contrary to my friend pabloinus, I think that Master Payne should do it in book form with a performance only DVD attached showing him performing the routine in various public situations. Then having printed less issues (owing to a smaller market), he should sell it for around 40$ (and frankly I think it is worth much more). This is the way Bob Read initially went with his penultimate cups and balls.
I don't think that Bob sold one less copy owing to the price.
Message: Posted by: Tom Fenton (Oct 1, 2012 12:28PM)
I must agree with Lawrence.
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Oct 1, 2012 12:43PM)
I'm in! If only to add to my collection of brilliant routines.

I believe the final price will be governed in part by the cost of putting the thing together. Lawrence has pretty much hit the nail on the head.

I also believe that it could be included in the larger Renaissance Fair book AND be a stand alone booklet.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Woolery (Oct 1, 2012 07:15PM)
Personally, I'd like to see it in the same book with your other medieval magic. Cups and balls is so much the definitive trick of the middle ages (almost any illustration of a medieval conjurer shows him with cups and balls) that leaving this routine out of the book would be making the book incomplete.

I'd pay more for the book with this routine in it. But I'll be getting the book regardless of whether the C&B routine is there or separate.

What I would totally love is a book/DVD set that shows you performing several of your routines, even if all the explanation is in the printed volume. What I really want is to read your thinking on the tricks, not just your working. I don't do Tommy Wonder's cups and balls, but his L&L video explanation is very valuable to me because he spends most of the time talking about why he does each move, not just what he does. Your routines are so well crafted that I really want to know your thinking on each step more than I want to duplicate any particular steps.

I can't be the only one who is hoping for a big DVD set on your magic. I like books, but magic is visual, so seeing you do a trick would be great. I'm happy getting the details from a book, but getting the performance on video would be great.

-Patrick
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Oct 1, 2012 09:11PM)
A very nice routine, Payne- refreshing! I would vote for a book with your Cups routine included. Sign me up for a copy...

Jim
Message: Posted by: FatHatter (Oct 1, 2012 09:19PM)
[quote]
On 2012-09-30 20:08, Payne wrote:
So would there be a market for this? [/quote]

Yep.

[quote]Is it a different enough from Gazzo's and Vernons to warrant its own manuscript in the first place? [/quote]

See first question.

[quote]Who would buy it and how much would you pay?[/quote]

People that want to know how you did it and whatever the market will bear. I wouldn't think $50 would be a deal breaker.

[quote]Or should I bite the digital bullet and just go the DVD route?[/quote]

Yes.



[quote]Currently I'm working on a book for the Mediaeval\Renaissance performer which details the acts I've been doing for the last thirty years. Should the cups and balls be a chapter in this book or a whole separate document. [/quote]

I'm surprised you asked this. Yes, separate document, build value.

[quote]Anyone have any suggestions or comments on their poor mans poll?[/quote]

Not at this time.
Message: Posted by: Lawrence O (Oct 1, 2012 10:58PM)
Thank you FatHatter for this detailed reply which pleases me (for whatever it's worth) because I share it and it pleases me to see that many people understand the value of Master Paynes' routine. Now, for advanced that it may be, the routine is not revolutionary in technical terms. It is however miles ahead in scripting, entertainment and acting terms. These are precisely, IMHO, where our art has deep potentials for progress in the coming decades.

Can you imagine, Kent Gunn's routine with a Master Paynes' rendition: I had the opportunity to see it when Kent performed his routine for Johnny Thompson and I in Vegas, using his natural sailor's language (an inimitable mixture of rogue and politely submissive language that only his navy years could have taught him)

I ignore Master Paynes' personal story but his speech and acting make his routine as unique as he appears to be.

That's what I'd like to be able to share: why is he looking here or there at that moment, what drives him to make that joke now... It would be no surprise if this was coming naturally to him but having the documents to be able to analyze it in details like we could do for Dai Vernon, Fred Kaps, Bob Read, David Williamson, Michael Ammar, John Mendoza... will help us to advance in the search of ourselves in the magical field.
Message: Posted by: Mike McErlain (Oct 2, 2012 12:43AM)
I would definitely purchase your published work , Master Payne.

I love the routine!

I don't feel qualified to speculate on appropriate cost, so I'll let the experts take it from here.

Lawrence makes several excellent points.
Message: Posted by: Dale Houck (Oct 2, 2012 03:09PM)
Great routine! I'd buy it as well.
Message: Posted by: ottphd (Oct 2, 2012 04:07PM)
Count me in for a signed copy too!
Jim
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Oct 2, 2012 08:15PM)
Payne, that was just beautiful work - in every aspect. Exceptionally well done. And you must thoroughly enjoy performing it!
Message: Posted by: leaycraft (Oct 2, 2012 08:31PM)
Payne- let me add to the above, I would very much like to see it in print. I may also add that I am thinking of including your multiplying bottles patter adapted to me in my chemistry course. Who knew Quantum Mechanics and theory could be so magical and understood.
Message: Posted by: Denis Bastible (Oct 4, 2012 06:13PM)
Great scripting . The sheer amount of productions limits who, and under what conditions, this can be performed. You either need a gibeciere or a servante.
Message: Posted by: Lawrence O (Oct 4, 2012 07:01PM)
... or some technical re-routining to be able to learn from the script slightly changing the routine. Is that impossible?
Message: Posted by: Bapu (Oct 5, 2012 11:17AM)
Master Payne, if that really is your name...

I love your cups and balls performance at the Camlann Mediaeval Fair as shown in three parts on YouTube. I have watched it many times and have shared it with my family and friends. For me, the most important word in the previous sentence is "performance". I think that the performance character that you have developed for medieval and renaissance fair venues is absolutely terrific. It is both convincing and entertaining.

I have never watched your performance for the purpose of deconstructing it from a technical point of view. I assume the moves are standard, and well known. Perhaps I am wrong. For my money, your genius lies in your character development, scripting, and presentation. In other words, the theatrical value of what you have created and how you deliver it. As Lawrence O. pointed out above, it is a real study in scripting and acting, two areas that magicians as a group seem to be particularly weak in.

I also enjoy reading your comments in this forum as well as your articles for Genii. In other words your thoughts on presenting enjoyable short theatrical performances (magical or otherwise), your ideas concerning character development, scripting, timing and delivery of lines, your views on what is good, bad or indifferent about magic as presented today (or in the past for that matter), are all of much more interest to me than how you produce any effect technically.

So if you do write a book, I hope it is filled with the philosophy, conclusions, best practices, etc, resulting from your years of experience and thought concerning the perfection of your craft. Don't teach me how to p*lm and ball. Instead, show me how to "send it off to distant Pluto". Teach me how to tell a story, when to pause, when to cajole a bit, when to give a wink to a child. Teach me how to be a magician Master Payne, teach me how to be a magician.

Now that would be a book I would pay some serious $$$ for. ;)
Message: Posted by: cirrus (Oct 5, 2012 01:21PM)
[quote]
On 2012-10-05 12:17, Bapu wrote:
Master Payne, if that really is your name...

I love your cups and balls performance at the Camlann Mediaeval Fair as shown in three parts on YouTube. I have watched it many times and have shared it with my family and friends. For me, the most important word in the previous sentence is "performance". I think that the performance character that you have developed for medieval and renaissance fair venues is absolutely terrific. It is both convincing and entertaining.

I have never watched your performance for the purpose of deconstructing it from a technical point of view. I assume the moves are standard, and well known. Perhaps I am wrong. For my money, your genius lies in your character development, scripting, and presentation. In other words, the theatrical value of what you have created and how you deliver it. As Lawrence O. pointed out above, it is a real study in scripting and acting, two areas that magicians as a group seem to be particularly weak in.

I also enjoy reading your comments in this forum as well as your articles for Genii. In other words your thoughts on presenting enjoyable short theatrical performances (magical or otherwise), your ideas concerning character development, scripting, timing and delivery of lines, your views on what is good, bad or indifferent about magic as presented today (or in the past for that matter), are all of much more interest to me than how you produce any effect technically.

So if you do write a book, I hope it is filled with the philosophy, conclusions, best practices, etc, resulting from your years of experience and thought concerning the perfection of your craft. Don't teach me how to p*lm and ball. Instead, show me how to "send it off to distant Pluto". Teach me how to tell a story, when to pause, when to cajole a bit, when to give a wink to a child. Teach me how to be a magician Master Payne, teach me how to be a magician.

Now that would be a book I would pay some serious $$$ for. ;)
[/quote]

I second this. I know the technical stuff, but I would love to learn from your experience the why not the how.
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Oct 5, 2012 07:15PM)
Payne:

Your cups and balls routine is superb...one of THE best cups and balls routines I have ever seen in my life. Congratulations!

To answer your questions:

I would think it would make sense to offer this routine as BOTH a standalone manuscript/Digital Download which you can later re-package and then later redistribute as a chapter in your planned book.

That way you can get some mileage out of it and magicians can have two different purchase options at two different price points.

The cups and balls are certainly important enough in the history of magic to warrant this, and your routine has enough twists and turns to offer a unique performance advantage to workers.

Best of luck on your new book...I look forward to seeing it.
Message: Posted by: Josh the Superfluous (Oct 5, 2012 08:15PM)
[quote]
On 2012-10-05 12:17, Bapu wrote:

So if you do write a book, I hope it is filled with the philosophy, conclusions, best practices, etc, resulting from your years of experience and thought concerning the perfection of your craft. Don't teach me how to p*lm and ball. Instead, show me how to "send it off to distant Pluto". Teach me how to tell a story, when to pause, when to cajole a bit, when to give a wink to a child. Teach me how to be a magician Master Payne, teach me how to be a magician.

Now that would be a book I would pay some serious $$$ for. ;)
[/quote]

I'm with this. I'd buy a performance theory book from you in a minute. Or a bible, whichever you write first.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Oct 5, 2012 08:33PM)
[quote]
On 2012-10-05 21:15, Josh the Superfluous wrote:

I'm with this. I'd buy a performance theory book from you in a minute. Or a bible, whichever you write first.
[/quote]

I've already written a book on part of my performance theory. It's available here

http://www.lulu.com/shop/master-payne/sometimes-the-jokes-are-just-for-me/paperback/product-5459010.html

It is my thoughts on the performance of magic as well as the creativity matrix I use to create new presentations. It includes several of my routines as examples of my thinking. I'm still working on the Bible. I know how it ends. I'm just having trouble working out the begining.
Message: Posted by: LeoH (Oct 5, 2012 08:49PM)
Wonderful routine! My vote is both printed and dvd formats.
Message: Posted by: Lawrence O (Oct 6, 2012 01:55PM)
Didn't you also made a filmed lecture on certain topics that your book for sure covers? Is that marketed?
Message: Posted by: Motley Mage (Oct 6, 2012 02:12PM)
Master Payne, I agree with Lawrence, FatHatter, and all the rest of your fans. I have watched your performance repeatedly and continue to be entertained. I have your Sometimes the Jokes...and found it invaluable. I would snap up a longer work on general magic or the cups, or both. And a DVD package with them.
Message: Posted by: cirrus (Oct 6, 2012 02:43PM)
I'm going to buy the book (the one on lulu) one of the following months.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Oct 6, 2012 05:44PM)
[quote]
On 2012-10-06 14:55, Lawrence O wrote:
Didn't you also made a filmed lecture on certain topics that your book for sure covers? Is that marketed?
[/quote]

The talk is called "Why do we Repeat ourselve" and can be found on Jeff McBride's Magic and Meaning PEP Talk Page http://www.magicalwisdom.com/infopages/view/mm_talks
Message: Posted by: tom crecelius (Oct 6, 2012 07:48PM)
Master Payne..... I love the routines, the costumes, and the presentation. Insight from you as well as Bill Palmer or any performer that has done this for years and knows the ins and outs of it is very valuable to anyone wanting to try it out. Experience is the best teacher and YOU, SIR (pun intended there) know your stuff. Best of luck and keep us infomed of how, when, cost, and such.....
Message: Posted by: maxnew40 (Oct 8, 2012 08:04AM)
I am looking forward to the new book on Mediaeval\Renaissance performing. Please let us on the Café know when you release that one.

-Max
Message: Posted by: Lawrence O (Oct 8, 2012 08:45AM)
[quote]
On 2012-10-06 18:44, Payne wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-10-06 14:55, Lawrence O wrote:
Didn't you also made a filmed lecture on certain topics that your book for sure covers? Is that marketed?
[/quote]

The talk is called "Why do we Repeat ourselve" and can be found on Jeff McBride's Magic and Meaning PEP Talk Page http://www.magicalwisdom.com/infopages/view/mm_talks
[/quote]

I remember another one in a less flamboyant stage with a board where the topics were written and about, if my memory serve well, scripting(?) magic ...with do and don't

The filming wasn't as crisp as the one that you generously extended, but the thinking was
Message: Posted by: Payne (Oct 8, 2012 02:48PM)
[quote]
On 2012-10-08 09:45, Lawrence O wrote:

I remember another one in a less flamboyant stage with a board where the topics were written and about, if my memory serve well, scripting(?) magic ...with do and don't

The filming wasn't as crisp as the one that you generously extended, but the thinking was
[/quote]

I don't do "less flamboyant" :)

The one you are describing doesn't sound familiar to me and I can't recall doing one focused on scripting. But if there is one out there of me like you describe I'd like to see it as well :)
Message: Posted by: Terry Holley (Oct 8, 2012 05:41PM)
[quote]
On 2012-10-05 21:33, Payne wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-10-05 21:15, Josh the Superfluous wrote:

I'm with this. I'd buy a performance theory book from you in a minute. Or a bible, whichever you write first.
[/quote]

I've already written a book on part of my performance theory. It's available here

http://www.lulu.com/shop/master-payne/sometimes-the-jokes-are-just-for-me/paperback/product-5459010.html

It is my thoughts on the performance of magic as well as the creativity matrix I use to create new presentations. It includes several of my routines as examples of my thinking. I'm still working on the Bible. I know how it ends. I'm just having trouble working out the begining.
[/quote]

Hi Payne:

Long time no see!

I can help you out with your Bible problem. "In the beginning God...." :winker:

And sign me up for a complimentary copy of you C&B while you're at it. And please autograph it for me.

Terry
Message: Posted by: Lawrence O (Oct 9, 2012 03:08AM)
"less flamboyant" was only referring to the stage offered to the firy words that set ablaze your audiences ;)
Message: Posted by: Jeff Dial (Oct 23, 2012 10:45PM)
If you publish this I know I will put it into my Ren Faire act. :)

Publishing - the gift of immortality.
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Oct 30, 2012 06:43PM)
Payne I say go for it. I'd say put it in the book with the other items however.
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Nov 1, 2012 11:08AM)
Payne, I'm surprised you're asking! Your C&B routine and performance are both excellent. I think more people should be aware of your magic and humor and of you as a performer. Yes, there is a market to purchase whatever material you're willing to share in whatever format you choose.
Message: Posted by: Lawrence O (Nov 18, 2012 06:33AM)
Thus the thread raised a question worth repeating: Master Payne are you going to publish your routine or leave us in pain?
:)
Message: Posted by: Payne (Nov 18, 2012 11:37PM)
[quote]
On 2012-11-18 07:33, Lawrence O wrote:
Thus the thread raised a question worth repeating: Master Payne are you going to publish your routine or leave us in pain?
:)
[/quote]

I've begun work on the project with next April as my deadline. Whether I have it completed bythen or not is the question. I am a slow writer. It took me Twenty minutes just to type this response.
Message: Posted by: cirrus (Nov 19, 2012 03:25AM)
I will be one of the people who buys this :).
Message: Posted by: TeslaTao (Nov 19, 2012 07:43AM)
[quote]For those who haven't seen this routine you can watch it here. http://vimeo.com/17200188
[/quote]

I'm a historian, and the way you take something that's so old and perform it with such beauty and humor is just incredible. It makes the past just come alive, and it literally brought a tear to my eye.
Message: Posted by: maxnew40 (Nov 19, 2012 07:59AM)
Payne, I beleive that when you finish the project many people such as myself will be very happy to purchase a copy.

-Max
Message: Posted by: Mr. Fumblethumb (Nov 21, 2012 08:28PM)
If you publish on Barnes and Noble or Amazon, you bypass the problems of book publication. You also have some control over price. Everyone who buys a copy has to buy it from you and and can't pass it around or resell their copy.

Not good for H&R Books or those of us who like books. It's also hard to leave something for posterity in the "Cloud".
Message: Posted by: Lawrence O (Nov 22, 2012 08:03AM)
[quote]
On 2012-11-21 21:28, Mr. Fumblethumb wrote:
If you publish on Barnes and Noble or Amazon, you bypass the problems of book publication. You also have some control over price. Everyone who buys a copy has to buy it from you and and can't pass it around or resell their copy.

Not good for H&R Books or those of us who like books. It's also hard to leave something for posterity in the "Cloud".
[/quote]

It is possible to publish with Lulu.com and get distributed by Barnes and Noble or Amazon or...; and Mr. Fumblethumb is right, this allows controlling the pricing all along the chain. Another solution is to go with Lybrary.com which is a pretty fair deal.

Now Curtis Kam went through the Lulu.com process and has some experience that could benefitiate other members here.

The experience that I have with either H&R or Hermetic Press is that they are overloaded with good projects and that it takes between one and two years (at best) for a book to get out... but you are in very good company in both instances.

Another very good (even if less known) way is to go through Gabe Fajuri, who is quick, knowledgeable, pleasant and very honest

That's really a matter of choice on Master Payne's part.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Nov 22, 2012 01:34PM)
I will go the same route I took for my first book on the perforance of magic "Sometimes the Jokes are Just for Me" and publish them through LULU and Lybrary.com

This allows me to have both a physical and virtual copy of the book available with minimum cash outlay. I also won't end up with a storage unit of inventory that will taje years to sell down. Plus LULU takes care of all the shipping as well.

It would be great if H&R or Hermetic would publish my work(s). But alas I'm too small of a fish for them to take interest, or the monetary risk to publish anything I might write. Steve Minch is a friend of mine so I know how carefully he evaluates the marketability of a book before he considers working on it.
Message: Posted by: cirrus (Nov 22, 2012 02:50PM)
I loved the first book, so I will definitely buy the second one.
Message: Posted by: HenryleTregetour (Jul 15, 2013 05:33PM)
Master Payne,

It is an honor to meet you. As a member of the target audience for this book (I do medieval recreation and am thinking upon embarking upon a side-venture in the Renaissance fairs), I thought I would like to add my two cents. Please note that I am new to prestidigitation, but have 30+ years of medieval recreation.

First, the past couple of months I have been looking at various videos of Renaissance Fair magic shows, and I find your performances to be superior. Your character is someone I believe I might actually meet during the Middle Ages/Renaissance. With regards to the book/video, I think having videos of as many of your routines as possible in your MA/R persona (with costume) would be highly valuable to any aspiring medieval/Renaissance jongleur. While the sleights of the MA/R are not different from more modern methods (the timelessness of legerdemain), I think that watching you as the MA/R joungleur would give the aspiring m/R jongleur stylistic instruction that one cannot get from reading a book.

As for the book itself, I think omitting a section on cup and balls would leave the work complete. At the same time, a discussion of cup and balls through history--starting perhaps with the illustrations found in works like Volkman's The Oldest Deception and the routine provided in Hocus Pocus Junior, to more modern routines, would more than justify such an independent work on C&B.

Even if you decide to limit the number of routines in the video, I would love to see more of your MA/R on YouTube. It is both entertaining and inspirational.

Henry le Tregetour
Message: Posted by: HenryleTregetour (Jul 15, 2013 05:42PM)
With regards to the previous message,

I meant to say that omitting the cups and balls routine from the general Renaissance Fair magic book would leave it INCOMPLETE.

Thanks,

HylTreg
Message: Posted by: Herr Brian Tabor (Jul 15, 2013 07:12PM)
I agree with Mr. Woolery when he says "Personally, I'd like to see it in the same book with your other medieval magic. Cups and balls is so much the definitive trick of the middle ages (almost any illustration of a medieval conjurer shows him with cups and balls) that leaving this routine out of the book would be making the book incomplete."

Either way, I hope to goodness you'll be kind enough to include some more theory and your unique perspective on magic and creating routines and characters. I'm still reading your last book, and applying concepts here and there for my performances and routines.
Message: Posted by: Ray Haining (Jul 16, 2013 10:23AM)
A book on renaissance fairs would be incomplete without a section on the cups and balls. I would hope that such a book, in addition to tricks, would include information on renaissance fairs, how they got started, their history, where they can be found today. I have never been to one. I remember there being one somewhere in my life, but I don't remember where or when.

Payne's personality certainly comes across different, friendly, than what one would expect viewing that scary looking icon. (Looks like he's about to bite your head off!)
Message: Posted by: LeoH (Jul 16, 2013 11:34AM)
Master Payne:

I really enjoy your book, "Sometimes the Jokes are Just for Me". The way you describe your thinking process of converting tricks to your performance style is particularly interesting.

When you release your book on the cups and balls, I will be one of the first to purchase.

Best,

Leo
Message: Posted by: HenryleTregetour (Jul 16, 2013 03:21PM)
Sorry if I'm a little off topic.

Ray,

I also live in Arkansas (Fayetteville). WRT nearby Ren Faires, Texarkana has one on the first weekend of October, and Muskogee, OK, has one that takes place every weekend in May. The Dallas-Ft. Worth area also has one or two very large fairs that run a month or two each. See the Renaissance Faire Page (www.renfaire.com/‎) for more details. I believe the Texarkana fair is not listed on the page, but it is on the internet.

Henry
Message: Posted by: Payne (Jul 17, 2013 10:55AM)
Thanks for the compliments and high praise guys.

The book is coming along. I'm hoping to get pictures and companion video taken at Faire this year and shooting for a holiday release. Though I'm not specifying which holiday.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Woolery (Jul 17, 2013 12:52PM)
Hey, Payne-

Just as a little begging from me, if you have it available with video by the Christmas shopping season, I will finally know what to tell my wonderfully supportive wife what to get me. I bet there are a lot of guys here who feel the same. Hint, hint...

That said, if it takes longer to get it right, I'd rather get a better version than one you rushed to complete for a particular deadline. Reluctantly, I have to say that if you need more time than anticipated I would rather wait. Only just, but still.

I still have this love/frustration feeling with your cups and balls. I see it as the epitome of what I'd like to be able to do with the trick, in terms of audience entertainment, but now that I've seen it I worry that any efforts on my part would turn into copying you. If you at least release it in a book and I buy the book, I will feel like I have bought the right to use at least some of your routine without feeling like a thief. Copycat, maybe, but not a thief. ;-)

-Patrick
Message: Posted by: Motley Mage (Jul 17, 2013 03:43PM)
Master Payne-

Waiting.

Your humble servant and ardent admirer-

Motley Mage.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Woolery (Aug 27, 2014 06:08PM)
Is there anyone out there who could just take a video camera to one of Payne's performances then follow him home and beg for his thoughts about the routines he uses? I would pay cash money for a very basic video if it includes his performing and his thinking.

Holiday release? Please?

Patrick
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Aug 27, 2014 07:19PM)
If he came for a holiday to London I'd do it.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Aug 27, 2014 11:01PM)
[quote]
On Aug 27, 2014, tomsk192 wrote:

If he came for a holiday to London I'd do it.

[/quote]


I'll be in London in November for the International Magic Convention
Message: Posted by: wwhokie1 (Aug 27, 2014 11:36PM)
[quote]On Aug 27, 2014, Mr. Woolery wrote:
Is there anyone out there who could just take a video camera to one of Payne's performances then follow him home and beg for his thoughts about the routines he uses? I would pay cash money for a very basic video if it includes his performing and his thinking.

Holiday release? Please?

Patrick [/quote]

That would be cool. I would also pay for that.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Aug 27, 2014 11:37PM)
Shall we 'do it', then, sir? It would be both an admirable time and place in which to achieve such a thing.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Woolery (Aug 29, 2014 01:21PM)
I have several DVDs from the Colombinis and I never found the living room format to be in any way limiting to learning. I actually think it would be a great thing if more of the people whose work I want to learn from would follow the same no-frills production methods. Sure beats hearing that someone recorded a project with one of the video houses and the footage just sat for years before being released.

And I pay for information above production value. I would pay $30 for Master Payne's Medieval Magic DVD whether it was done on a fancy set with three cameras or in a living room with an iPhone. If I get the methods, the presentation, and the very important thinking behind both, I get good value.

Please do consider doing this, Payne. It won't make you rich but it will make the world of magic much richer.

Patrick
Message: Posted by: Magic-Daniel (Aug 29, 2014 03:11PM)
+1000

Please do this Payne!
Message: Posted by: wwhokie1 (Aug 29, 2014 06:21PM)
At the very least an actual on location performance dvd to accompany the book would be great. To visually see in action what you have discussed in the book would be a great supplement. Especially for the type of work you are talking about. Performance art is visual by nature, and what we are talking about is as much or more about the performance than the magic.
Message: Posted by: Magic-Daniel (Aug 31, 2014 04:48PM)
By the way, that vanish at 05:35...BEAUTIFUL!
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Aug 31, 2014 04:53PM)
I think that this gentleman will do whatever he wants whenever he wants to do it.

Let's all hush.
Message: Posted by: MagiUlysses (Sep 2, 2014 03:13PM)
Greetings and Salutations,

It is inconceivable that I missed this topic until now, but, I, too, will be in line to acquire said book and DVD.

Master Payne's previous work is quite masterful, and along with Bill Palmer's notes on Ren Faires should be required reading for anyone interested in working these types of venues.

God's Speede and Fare Thee Well, Master Payne!

Joe Zeman aka
Ulysses the Mage
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Sep 5, 2014 09:01AM)
Payne:

Congratulations again, Sir. You have the FINEST cups and balls routine I have ever seen in my life. BRAVO!!! It's a MASTERPIECE!!!

I will be in line for your book(let)!
Message: Posted by: JLemoine (Sep 5, 2014 12:45PM)
Master Payne, I had never seen your routine and I must say I'm under the charm.
Your patter and your acting are wonderful.
It's a true masterpiece. Very inspiring.

[quote]On Oct 5, 2012, Bapu wrote:
For my money, your genius lies in your character development, scripting, and presentation. In other words, the theatrical value of what you have created and how you deliver it. As Lawrence O. pointed out above, it is a real study in scripting and acting, two areas that magicians as a group seem to be particularly weak in.
[/quote]
I couldn't have said it better.
Message: Posted by: conjurormatt (Sep 14, 2014 02:22AM)
Having just had the pleasure of meeting Master Payne and watching his lecture/ powerpoint at the recent Texas Association of Magicians Convention; I would heartily second/100th the sentiments of others in purchasing a book/ dvd of your renaissance work. Thank you for doing so much for our humble convention.

Cheers!
Matt Martin
VP, Fort Worth Magicians Club
Treasurer, TAOM 2014
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Sep 14, 2014 05:45PM)
A book of this type is exactly the way to archive this brilliant man's work! "...Jokes..." is highly recommended. It's on the level of Walt Anthony's "Tales Of Enchantment". So yeah. Looking forward to this...

Doug