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Topic: What's the name of this counting technique?
Message: Posted by: shakuni (Oct 12, 2012 06:48AM)
Hi, can anyone please tell me the name of technique he is using here to count the cards in the start: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sOJBkezLyo

(I don't want to reveal the secret but he is actually showing more jokers then he actually has, hope it's allowed)
Message: Posted by: Vlad_77 (Oct 12, 2012 07:25PM)
[quote]
On 2012-10-12 07:48, shakuni wrote:
Hi, can anyone please tell me the name of technique he is using here to count the cards in the start: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sOJBkezLyo

(I don't want to reveal the secret but he is actually showing more jokers then he actually has, hope its allowed)
[/quote]

Please do not take this as a flame, but, if you cannot recognize that count you shouldn't be asking about the effect. I recall another thread where you had stated that you are just beginning with sleight of hand. You stated you would actually read some books and do some research. Asking such a question will get you nowhere fast. Why? Because your question is not substantive. You want to know the name of a sleight, i.e, you want spoon fed when you are not ready for the technique.

Again not a flame but an observation: the vast majority of your questions ARE focused on what something is or how something is done. It doesn't work that way in magic.

Perhaps someone who doesn't care about exposure will PM you or a troll might answer you on this open board. It won't be me Shakuni.

Do your homework please? Others as well as I have spoon fed you a TON of sources. Get to work on at least one?

Vlad
Message: Posted by: shakuni (Oct 13, 2012 04:31AM)
Hi Sir, Thanks for your feedback. You are right that I am new to magic and still learning the things.

I can do this whole trick except the first part. The tutorial that came with it doesn't explain the first part where you show all the 4 jokers. After that I can do the rest but can't do the first part as when I tried to replicate it from the video, its almost obvious that I have only 2 jokers. This is the reason I asked for the name of the technique so that I can buy some material on it to master it.

Thanks for your understanding.
Message: Posted by: Vlad_77 (Oct 13, 2012 06:55AM)
[quote]
On 2012-10-13 05:31, shakuni wrote:
Hi Sir, Thanks for your feedback. You are right that I am new to magic and still learning the things.

I can do this whole trick except the first part. The tutorial that came with it doesn't explain the first part where you show all the 4 jokers. After that I can do the rest but can't do the first part as when I tried to replicate it from the video, its almost obvious that I have only 2 jokers. This is the reason I asked for the name of the technique so that I can buy some material on it to master it.

Thanks for your understanding.
[/quote]

Shakuni,

I have worked as a demonstrator in three magic shops. Two of them sold this effect. As a demonstrator in a brick and mortar magic shop one is required to learn effects so that these effects can be demonstrated and sold. The effect your are talking about DOES explain the sleight. Now, having said that, I do not want you to think I am calling you a liar. It MAY be that the instructions you received may have been missing that important component. The easy answer is to contact the seller of the effect and ask for anotgher copy of the instructions. Failing that, you could also attempt to contact the creator directly.

The technique that is eluding you is one of the most widely used techniques in effects using packets and full decks. I really wish you would save a few bucks and instead of buying individual effects actually buy a book or a DVD that teaches foundational sleights. The investment will reward you a thousandfold and you won't perceived as a person not willing or more precisely, recalcitrant to do the work. Sorry to lecture man but magic requires the same discipline as learning to play a musical instrument or indeed any endeavor which requires skill.

So....

As a start - and NOT at ALL expensive you could:

Purchase The Royal Road to Card Magic

Check out some DVDs from Michael Ammar's Easy to Master Card Magic series
Purchase at least the first two volumes of Card College. You can get these either as hard cover or as pdf files from Lybrary.com
Get some stuff from Aldo Colombini. Virtually all of the stuff on his site is only 10.00 USD
Get a few of the DVD set from Daryl titled Encyclopedia of Card Sleights

There are tons of other resources of course, but, it is my opinion - and I hasten to add it is not a universal "truth" - that by and large, when you are starting out in sleight of hand magic, you need to get your foundations established and buying individual effects will NOT adequately give you those crucial foundations. I say this to HELP you Shakuni. Look, I HATED learning scales when I began playing piano and synthesizers; I thought they were a form of medieval torture. But I soon realized that I needed them or else I would have no way to understand musical textuality for songwriting and for improvisation. I love scales and understanding them has allowed me to explore very cool chord progressions.

Lastly, a few other indispensible resources I may have mentioned that you really should have. Money may be tight so go slowly:

The Magic Book by Harry Lorayne (I realize that this has been updated in Classic Collection v.4, but, you are not ready for the other books in that update) so try to gert an original of just The Magic Book.

The Encyclopedia of Card Tricks - you can find this enduring classic even on Amazon. The book is in the public domain and was long ago republished by Dover. I am guessing you coukld snag a copy for a mere 10.00. Check with Chris Wasshuber for the pdf version. He runs Lybrary.com and is a stand up guy.

The Tarbell Couerse in Magic: you have three choices here: 1. The eight volume hard back set. Buy one at a time, Tarbell isn't going to vanish. 2. There is a book titled The Original Tarbell Course. It is one book and contains the original course as it was published in 1927. You essentially get the first five volumes of the hard back set and part of volume 6. 3. Lybrary.com offer this in pdf (the original course)

Scarne on Card Tricks: Look man, even PROFESSIONALS and accomplished amateurs use this classic. Don't look down on this as a casual book; there is some powerful card magic in its pages. Look for a paperback version.

Karl Fulves' Self Working Card Tricks series: These are superb. In fact, many top card people have included either the effects as they are written in these books, or have created some variant. These are very inexpensive Shakuni. Get the first one and learn Gemini Twins - you can thank me later. :)

Look for books by Bob Longe.

Look on Jay Sankey's site and look at Theory 11. Both of these sites have EXCELLENT beginner's resources. Send an e-mail to Joshua and Andi at Vanishing Inc. Tell them where you are in your journey. They will help you. Penguin Magic actually has a live support mechanism here on The Café. USE IT. Tell them you are a beginner interested in getting some good foundational material.

Everything listed in my post already represents a life time of study and I guarantee that if you invest in a few, your magic knowledge will grow exponetially provided YOU put in the work necessary.

My semi-tough tone is not anger at you. It is rather an old school way to show you that I WANT you to really get the tools you need to open breathtaking vistas in this ancient and beautiful art.

It comes down to how much work YOU are willing to do man. You WILL find that once people here realize that you ARE doing the nedcessary study, your questions will be better received. Just remember Shakuni, all of us were once where you are! :)

Namaste,
Vlad
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Oct 13, 2012 08:27AM)
^ Vlad is correct and has given you great wisdom here as well as a list of great resources. You can either limp along one effect at a time trying to figure out the secret or sleight or dive in and learn the basics and do hundreds of effects, sooner than you may think.

There are different types of magicians. Many, if not most, are hobbyists. The old gag of an Uncle pulling a coin out of your ear. In Coin Magic you can buy a HH set from Johnson and be a one trick pony, as they say. You can continue on this path: one effect at a time. One purchase at a time. It sounds like you have started that way. You SHOULD have had the secret / sleight included with your purchase---it doesn't make sense you didn't. You can contact the Seller as stated above. Another idea is to purchase Trost's Card Magic book as it most likely includes the sleight you're asking about. You can check Aldo Colombini's website where he lists DVDs that include the sleight, and many others, with clear teaching. Yes, you can go this route and do ONE trick well.

Or you can make Magic more of a life style: investing your time and money in resources that will pay off with giving you the ability to perform hundreds of effects to your satisfaction.
Message: Posted by: shakuni (Oct 13, 2012 10:39AM)
The instructions tell me I "say" that I have 4 face up jokers and I will turn one of them down. Then I do E*****y count to show that one has actually faced down and so on. But I found the above video that actually shows the 4 face up jokers in start. I am asking the name of this count. Is this also the E*****y count? If yes, then I don't understand it clearly and I must ask you in PM or in secrets forum :(

@Vlad_77

I already have printed out your post from another question I asked, and I have done the same for this post, as I will need to refer it in future. Great advice and help. I will start by buying one book as I can't buy all the stuff together :( Thanks a lot again for being patient with newcomers like me.

@Atom3339

You are right sir. I have gone some far on the "one effect at a time" path. But I have realized my mistake now and will continue of learning techniques first. Thanks for your help :)
Message: Posted by: motown (Oct 13, 2012 10:45AM)
You could also buy an inexpensive book called Counts, Cuts, Moves and Subtlety by Jerry Mentzer
Message: Posted by: CAPTAIN BEYOND (Oct 13, 2012 01:18PM)
Shakuni,you might be like me and learn better from dvds than books.Get Allen Ackermans "advanced card control series"volume#7 false counts.You will thank me for it.He also teaches a card trick called"twins" at the end of the dvd.You will like and use this trick,believe me.
Message: Posted by: Vlad_77 (Oct 14, 2012 05:29AM)
[quote]
On 2012-10-13 14:18, CAPTAIN BEYOND wrote:
Shakuni,you might be like me and learn better from dvds than books.Get Allen Ackermans "advanced card control series"volume#7 false counts.You will thank me for it.He also teaches a card trick called"twins" at the end of the dvd.You will like and use this trick,believe me.
[/quote]

Nice advise for at least learning false counts, but, I would caution Shakuni to steer clear at this stage of most of Ackerman's other material; the "advanced" in the moniker truly IS advanced. The Mentzer book IS wonderful and perhaps an inexpensive tandem would be the Mentzer book and Focus from Max Maven.

Namaste,
Vlad

PS: Again if you are a DVD person, look for specific volumes of Daryl's Encyclopedia of Card Sleights. But if I may add one more comment, please do not tie yourself into one method of learning? It ultimartely is self-limiting. Yes I will come clean here and state emphatically that I prefer books, but having said that, I have learned quite a lot from DVDs and other media. Knowledge is key and get it (legally) any way you can.
Message: Posted by: Atom3339 (Oct 14, 2012 09:52AM)
I learned the count you are referring to first from Aldo Colombini's Trost DVDs that have several effects using this count. Then I used Trost's books for additional reference. I find this two-prong approach works very well for me. I like to SEE a performer doing magic and SEE the explanation to make sure I'm doing it right. I like to READ the details for any nuances I may have missed and for discovering many more tricks.
Message: Posted by: motown (Oct 14, 2012 09:42PM)
Also recently put out 3 DVDs of sleights, which contain many different counts. They're $10 each.
Message: Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Oct 15, 2012 06:14AM)
Shakuni, first of all, welcome to magic and the magic Café. Where are you from? Is there a Magic Shop where you bought these effects or do you buy them all off the internet? If you bought them at a local Magic Shop go back when they are not so busy and ask someone to help explain the count better - you paid for the secret already if you bought it and most shops would take a few moments to show you what you are doing wrong. It is a fairly simple move/count and you will use it so much in the future you will almost get sick of it - but learn it right from the beginning. Also (my opinion, don't take it wrong) The way you word your questions when you start a thread Seems like you just saw a youtube video and now you want the answers before buying it. It may be that you are from another country and your english just doesn't translate well or you may be a young teenager. People here are very willing to help you along the journey which is magic but you must take the first steps on your own. Vlad is one of the most knowledgable posters on this forum and he has given you a good start as well as ATOM and MOTOWN. I have been doing magic for 17 years and I still learn from reading Vlads posts. Good Luck and don't give up cause magic is great, espesially for your self confidense. My slogan is "Magic is easy - anyone can do it... But - not everyone can Perform It"
Message: Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Oct 15, 2012 10:46AM)
[quote]
On 2012-10-13 11:45, motown wrote:
You could also buy an inexpensive book called Counts, Cuts, Moves and Subtlety by Jerry Mentzer
[/quote]
go to books and lecture notes for sale or trade and check " Big Magic Book List (m.ruetz)" this book is listed for $5.00 + shipping