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Topic: It's time for a new Tenyo Elite item!
Message: Posted by: pierredan (Dec 4, 2012 03:05PM)
Dear Tenyo Elite Team

Its time for you to release a new Tenyo Elite item. Your momentum is slowing down.

I propose you change your sales model.

Use Real Secrets as an example (people subscribed without knowing what they were going to get.)

Get people to subscribe to Tenyo Elite. Charge twice the price and commit to releasing one product every year. Your minimum subscription rate will ensure you break even and then you could sell the products to the public at a surcharge (more than the subscribers paid) to ensure you a profit.

Just a thought. Would anyone else support this subscription model?
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Dec 5, 2012 11:36AM)
Hi Pierredan, we are way ahead of you. Our company has been getting overhauled! And we are back into designing our next effect! We cannot say which one it is at this time, but we can tell you, that we think people will be very excited when they find out. I can tell you that it will be made of wood this time, a limited run, with much fewer made, and will be a thing of beauty, and more to what we had originally envisioned when we created this company. We listened to our fans, and we are very excited. We hope to have a finished prototype in our hands with in the next few months, at which point will determine production dates.

Tenyo Elite Team.
Message: Posted by: ChasVH (Dec 5, 2012 12:02PM)
That is great to hear Peter... much better model on a go forward basis. Looking forward to hearing about this next item.

Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Dec 5, 2012 07:24PM)
You got us drooling Peter...
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Dec 5, 2012 07:46PM)
This is good news. The team has shown they can produce a great product and happy to see it is progressing.

Message: Posted by: Merc Man (Dec 10, 2012 07:15PM)
If 'Tenyo Elite' had the first idea about marketing, they'd look at various feedback re: Tenyo items via websites, prices on ebaY, etc.

If this were the case, then 'Tenyo's Ultra Tube' would be released (even I'm it's original version) by the New Year.

However, I won't hold my breath. ;)
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Dec 10, 2012 07:33PM)
I don't mind waiting. I'm betting that Peter Loughran is putting just as much care into this side venture as he does into his successful illusion business. Better to wait and have it right, than get it sooner and be disappointed.
Message: Posted by: simcoscor (Dec 10, 2012 10:50PM)
My guess: Match-Sticks.
Message: Posted by: Merc Man (Dec 11, 2012 05:37AM)
That's actually a very good trick.

Not sure how popular it would be though. There have been countless posts with people's preferred Tenyo items, but I don't ever remember this one being mentioned.

Just to add, my previous post may appear terse - it wasn't meant to be. It's just that second-hand Ultra Tube's appear to go for a small fortune on ebaY UK. There's obviously a market for this trick should it ever be re-released.
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Dec 11, 2012 10:49AM)
Remaking Match-Sticks would be making the same mistake as Tenyo Elite did with their first two tricks: remaking a trick that was great quality to begin with in its original plastic Tenyo form and can be reproduced by someone who has some skill. For example, I know someone who is into pyrographics and is definately able to make great looking Match-Sticks out of wood. So no, please don't let it be Match-Sticks ;)

I really hope Tenyo Elite focusses on an item which is discontinued and is mostly mechanical in it's working. Ultra Tube, Ultraslice, Tunnel Of Darkness, Space Towers, ... there are so many possibilities.
Message: Posted by: simcoscor (Dec 11, 2012 12:07PM)
On 2012-02-13 19:39, Peter Loughran wrote:
(...) Match sticks are another item we are working with. Jason Palter fooled me badly with them while demoing them to me at our hotel a couple of years ago, great trick! Id like to see them made out of an expensive wood with brass inlay numbers. (...) We plan to release a mix of complicated gimmicked items with items less gimmicked. (...)
Message: Posted by: ChasVH (Dec 11, 2012 04:04PM)
I agree 100% with Killertweety and what he says should be made by the Peter and the Elite team. I would have very little interest in a Match Stick Elite Item, but any of those that Killertweety list and you can bet I am buying and I would bet many others would buy as well.

Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Dec 11, 2012 04:48PM)
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Dec 11, 2012 05:01PM)
PS there are a lot of factors that go into selecting an item to do in Elite form. It is not as simple as just picking one we think people will like and build it. There are only certain Tenyo tricks we are allowed to make. The selection also has to be approved by Tenyo, and by the creator(s) involved, and also be able to be manufactured in an Elite material. The trick has to be of certain age, and price point or again we are not allowed to do it. It's not as simple as just picking a trick and going with it as everyone thinks it might be. There is so much behind the scenes and so many people involved, that if you really knew, your head would spin!

I can tell you that I believe most people will be very happy and some estatic with the selection, but most of all and first and foremost we must please and honor Tenyo. There will only be a few made, so we know also from a marketing stand point we will have no trouble selling the limited amount we produce. This is a completely different business approach. You will have to trust us.

Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Dec 11, 2012 09:08PM)
Peter, these insights are so helpful. I think a lot of Tenyo fanboys like myself fail to realize the complex business issues with re-inventing and re-releasing these products, complicated by the international protocol and law aspects involved. Thank you.
Message: Posted by: Merc Man (Dec 12, 2012 04:23AM)
Comments seconded.

However, I think (could be wrong) that there's probably as much of a market for buying re-released, classic Tenyo items such as Ultra Tube, as there are for Elite Tenyo. Maybe, for your project to be really successful, it's a case of getting a happy medium between the two?

There must be quite a number of us that cut our magic teeth on Tenyo items in the 70's/80's that we either lost/sold/broke. Items such as Ultra Tube, Squeeze Play, Sandwich Platter, See-Thru Card, High Hats, etc. spring instantly to mind.

Maybe I'm wrong but these items would sell again EVEN if re-released in plastic (albeit higher grade/quality).

What do people think?
Message: Posted by: pierredan (Dec 12, 2012 05:49AM)
On 2012-12-11 17:48, Peter Loughran wrote:

That's too bad. I would purchase a Tenyo Elite Match Sticks. Keep it in mind for next time.
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Dec 12, 2012 08:45AM)
Thanks for understanding Wizzard!
Merc, I agree 100% for example I see diabolicus go for well over $100 on eBay. But again, it's not always as simple as just picking a trick. There is a process that a trick must go through before we have permission to go ahead with production. And that is what primarily drives the force behind what we choose to do.

Pierre- I agree Match Sticks is a super effect. It fooled me when I saw it. It's also one of those effects that made out of wood would no longer appear to be a toy, but rather something a scientist or ESP researcher would use to test subjects on their abilities. And made of wood or metal, you certainly could tell a pretty believable story(patter) in your routine, that wasn't possible with the plastic version. However with that said, we are focusing on more challenging builds, and effects that are more popular to the collectors. But one day I'd live to do an elite version of match sticks, even if just for my own private collection.

This is also proof that we are obviously not going to be able to please everyone with our selections. Some people want this and that, and others what that and this. There is no way we can please everyone. No matter what we pick, someone will say..."oh you should have done this one instead" it's a losing battle in that regard, because everyone wants something different. So our focus is on picking ones we think will not only please our fans, but also the collectors and most of all Tenyo! After all this is not a project driven by profit, but rather a labor of love and in honor of Tenyo.

Message: Posted by: meridianfan (Dec 12, 2012 08:04PM)
Hmmm... made out of wood-I am hoping for Crystal Cleaver! My only feedback on producing small runs is please do not produce them in too few of numbers. Balance is important here as I want to make sure I can get one. I would love to have some of the older Magic Wagon runs, but I cannot get them anywhere! That's a perfect example of what happens when too few of an item is produced- many people who would like to buy it are left out.

Can you have pre-order sales to better gauge the interest? This way, anyone who wants one can get one before you scale-up production appropriately.

Good luck on the new item!
Message: Posted by: pierredan (Dec 12, 2012 11:32PM)
I agree.

You can't only make make 50 of them!

Allow a pre-order period to help you determine the minimum production run that will be produced.
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Dec 13, 2012 03:06AM)
Thank you for all this information Peter - I do realize it's not easy to choose an item, get approval from Tenyo and produce it.

I agree with meridianfan and pierredan, pre-order sales gives an idea of how many you can produce and be certain they will sell. But it's all up to you guys of course :)

I'm really looking forward to this item - I have the Elite Fortune Sticks and they are top quality, so we certainly can't go wrong with the quality of your tricks. Now the trick itself of course ... ;)

Kind regards
Message: Posted by: ChasVH (Dec 13, 2012 01:06PM)
I like the Pre-Order Idea as well for you guy's Peter. I think that would be a Win-Win for both those of us who really want and collect this stuff to be able to get one (depending on the effect you are going to make of-course)and you who will then have a very good idea on how many to make. I don't see how that would be a bad thing for anyone unless I am missing something? Hope you all consider it and thanks for doing what you do with Tenyo Elite.

Message: Posted by: Merc Man (Dec 16, 2012 02:38PM)
A second-hand, used Ultra Tube has just sold on ebaY for £190! :wow:
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (Dec 16, 2012 04:38PM)
Hope that an Elite Ultra Tube is on the table! Pre-order +1
Message: Posted by: ChasVH (Dec 17, 2012 04:36PM)
Elite Ultra Tube for me too! That's now a Pre-Order of +2 for you Peter.

Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (Dec 19, 2012 03:56PM)

Do you have any time frame on when a new elite item will hit the market? If there are a few past Tenyo releases up for consideration, would taking a poll here help with the decision?
Message: Posted by: bigjay1974 (Dec 28, 2012 04:18PM)
So many really good items to choose from and a fair amount of stinkers too
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Dec 29, 2012 05:35PM)
One can only [i]hope[/i] that it will be the Tenyo Lion (T-241) as it's so generic and something that everyone can connect with. However, if it should by chance happen to be Ultra-Tube, whether it be made of metal or wood, just be sure that the name "Ultra-Tube" is stamped on the side of it.

Only joking of course. ;)
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Jan 7, 2013 01:18PM)
Mr. Peter Loughran,

IMO you should try to improve on the Tenyo trick, not just make the same trick out of a different material.

If it is an Ultra Tube you are working on then please try and have it made with a locking gimmick.

Future Sticks is a fantastic trick but very hard to perform do to the difficulty of seeing the gimmick. I think this trick would be more successful if it was placed into a container/case with a peak device.

For Moon Spinner the optical illusion works well, but the transition to a static coin is not good. If the coin could slowly spin down that would make it more convincing. Easier said than done, but something that is possible and would truly make a remarkable trick.

Also I think a focus group of Tenyo enthusiast would be a good idea for future products. There are a lot of talented people who hang around the Tenyo of Japan section of the Café and I think they would enjoy the opportunity to help create a Tenyo Elite product. I know I would. I think you could get a good handle on pricing too from the focus group. IMO the first two releases were too expensive for what they were. I have bought over 500 Tenyo in the past year but never even considered purchasing the Tenyo Elite items.

Best of Luck with your Future Endeavors
John Mazza
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Jan 9, 2013 10:27AM)
Hi John,

We cannot make any improvements or changes to the prop in its working without concent from Tenyo. And in all honesty, I don't blame Tenyo, these tricks are their children, and I too would want to give permission before someone took one of my inventions and started making changes to it. But we are certainly open to suggestions that we may suggest to Tenyo themselves during the design process of an Elite item, but we cannot guarantee that there will be changes to the overall design or workings of the prop, as it is up to Tenyo to decide that. But again we welcome suggestions on any Tenyo trick.

We are not saying at this time which Tenyo Item we are working on.

Forutne Sticks has already been released, we will not be making changes to existing Tenyo Elite items.

For Moonspinner please see above.

This forum acts as a focus group, we love and encourge folks to come here and talk about Tenyo Elite. However just keep in mind that as we have stated numerous times, it is not just up to the Elite team to make these decisions. Ulitmately Tenyo themselves has the last say in any of our re-productions.

Tenyo Elite items will also be substantially more money then the original plastic versions. For one, not only do they cost a lot more to manufacture that it would be impossible to compete with the retail price of the plastic versions, but it is also in our contract with Tenyo that the Elite editions will be in a higher price bracket so they do not compete with their original plastic versions. And who can blame them.

I have tried to address your questions and suggestions the best that I could.

Thanks for the interest and suggestions.

Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Jan 9, 2013 02:13PM)

Thank you for taking time to respond to my posting.

After reading through this thread again I am guessing that your new business model might be very similar to Magic Wagon’s.

I personally was hoping for something more exciting as far as performing is concerned rather than collecting.

Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Jan 9, 2013 07:57PM)
Unfortunately, there is no way Tenyo Elite can win here. They have bravely taken on an incredible challenge in that they are recreating the brainchildren of a beloved, and iconic magic giant...Tenyo. There is absolutely no way that everyone will agree with Tenyo Elite's choices of effects to produce, or the materials, or the production techniques employed to manufacture them. Sadly, there is no way to make everyone happy. But, let's look at what Tenyo Elite is really trying to do...take something that we all are fans of, and fond of - Tenyo magic - and elevate it to the next level of quality...making the best better.

Yet most of us on this forum really don't know what Tenyo Elite is up against. There are real concerns here regarding budgets (even someone with a basic knowledge of business will realize this is not a venture driven by profit), production vs. demand, and most importantly, the challenges inherent in dealing with a foreign entity - from both a cultural and legal standpoint. We are talking about a small group of fans, trying to work with a major foreign manufacturer. No easy feat, and certainly nothing that can happen quickly, or easily.

I don't know if I'll be 100% satisfied with the next releases of Tenyo Elite, but I can tell you that I am 100% grateful that they had the vision to make this happen in the first place. It's far more than most of us have done. So I'll give them the support they've earned and deserve.

With Peter behind the project - and knowing the pride he puts into his work - I have faith that Tenyo Elite is in good hands. And good magic in good hands, is a very good thing.
Message: Posted by: cbusch55 (Jan 28, 2013 06:02AM)
For those of us that don't know, which Tenyo Elite products have been made so far?
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (Jan 28, 2013 01:10PM)
Moonspinner and Fortune Sticks
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Jan 29, 2013 10:08AM)
Wizard, you hit the nail on the head!

Update, New item is well into prototype stage....ooooh I'm getting excited.

Both the next two planned releases should please a lot of people!

And I can tell you that the next release will be made of wood. I can't wait to hold it my hands!

Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Jan 29, 2013 10:14AM)
On 2013-01-29 11:08, Peter Loughran wrote:
Wizard, you hit the nail on the head!

Update, New item is well into prototype stage....ooooh I'm getting excited.

Both the next two planned releases should please a lot of people!

And I can tell you that the next release will be made of wood. I can't wait to hold it my hands!


Perhaps Mini-Morphosis!
Message: Posted by: pierredan (Jan 29, 2013 10:46AM)
Peter can you tell me if one of these is Ultra Tube before I spend too much for a plastic one? Thank you
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Jan 29, 2013 01:29PM)
Pierre, Unfortunately I am under contract with my partners not to reveal the items until they are ready to be released.

Message: Posted by: pierredan (Jan 29, 2013 01:49PM)
Thank you Peter

Can you give me an idea of when we can expect an announcement?
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Jan 29, 2013 02:27PM)
We are hoping to have the prototype for the next item appoved in the next 4-8 weeks. Then we can make the announcement, go into produciton, and take orders for the limited run.
Message: Posted by: mirror mate (Jan 29, 2013 02:34PM)
SO peter what were the years these tenyo elite tricks were originally launched?? can you give us that at least lol? regards MIRROR MATE.
Message: Posted by: lemagico (Feb 7, 2013 07:37AM)
Hi Peter (and everyone else with an interest in this FORUM):

I appreciate your candor and relative transparency for what must be, by its nature, a secretive process.

It is great fun to second guess and hope that the next Elite item will be the "one that I really want them to make". :)

I thought you guys were off to a great start. I agree that the lapse in time between production runs has been disappointing, but I am encouraged by the recent updates.

I look forward to the next item, whatever it is, and truth be told, I don't care what it is. What I do care about is that your venture continues into the future (at least, selfishly, for the rest of my life ;-)

At least with that thought in mind, you may eventually get around to the one Tenyo item that I (or any of us)really want you to make!

Peace, and continued success,

Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Feb 14, 2013 01:42PM)
Thanks David.
Since we have restructed this company to do smaller and more limited runs, we will not be over producing (and during the start of global a recession) a mistake we made during the launch, so now releases should be a lot more frequent and closer together. Also this time around, the items are all hand crafted and will be of higher quality than the first 2 releases but in limited quantities, and will have a higher price tag than the first two releases. But will also warrant the the asking price. I think everyone will appreciate the work that will be going into our elite editions even more now.

Update, Final prototype for our next release should be in our hands next week, and once Tenyo approves we can start taking orders and go into production.

Message: Posted by: ChasVH (Feb 14, 2013 03:08PM)
Cant wait... still no hints as to what it is? Even if its a Older or Newer effect?
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (Feb 14, 2013 03:52PM)

It would be fun if you could give us 5 random production years for hints and include the actual year that the new Tenyo elite item originated from.

Message: Posted by: ChasVH (Feb 15, 2013 12:14PM)
I like that idea Chris... Give us something to salivate on at least.... anything... pretty please?

Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Feb 15, 2013 03:24PM)
LOL, well I can tell you that this was one of 5 items I bought when I visited my first Magic Shop ever (Browser's Den of Magic) in Toronto, the famous late Len Cooper sold me this Tenyo item when I was a little kid. He sold me this, a penetration frame, chinese sticks, an apearing cane, and a square circle. Not sure on the exact year or exactly how old I was, but I think I was around 8 years old. And I am 38 years old now.

This item is very gimmicky compared to our first two releases. This elite version will be made compeletly of beautiful handcrafted wood. It is one of my personal all time favorite Tenyo Tricks! I have another story about it, but It would reveal too much, but will tell the story after it is released.

Guess all you want, but I will not admit to anything!

Lol. Also the next item we have planned after this, will have people going nuts for it. It is an exciting time again for Tenyo Elite.

Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Feb 15, 2013 10:15PM)
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (Feb 15, 2013 10:55PM)
Research time with a little detective work should help draw better conclusions for those trying to put this puzzle together. Glad to hear elite items are moving forward.
Message: Posted by: ChasVH (Feb 18, 2013 11:56AM)
Thanks Peter... this makes it fun, we will do some math and try and figure out what it could be.

Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Feb 18, 2013 06:09PM)
Made of wood?

Very nice. I can't wait.

Magic Wagon watch out ;).
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Feb 18, 2013 07:05PM)
I agree with you...

However, Magic Wagon, whom I love, has put out some Tenyo-like effects, but never any Tenyo-sanctioned effects. And there in lies the difference. Tenyo Elite are Tenyo-approved, so essentially part of the Tenyo family. Magic Wagon effects, while great, are not.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Feb 18, 2013 07:31PM)
On 2013-02-18 20:05, Wizard of Oz wrote:
I agree with you...

However, Magic Wagon, whom I love, has put out some Tenyo-like effects, but never any Tenyo-sanctioned effects. And there in lies the difference. Tenyo Elite are Tenyo-approved, so essentially part of the Tenyo family. Magic Wagon effects, while great, are not.
Never said otherwise :).

As Magic Wagon makes nice, quality items out of wood and metals, I think it's great that Tenyo Elite is also making nice, quality items of our favorite Tenyo effects :).
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (Feb 19, 2013 07:55PM)
On 2013-02-18 20:05, Wizard of Oz wrote:
I agree with you...

However, Magic Wagon, whom I love, has put out some Tenyo-like effects, but never any Tenyo-sanctioned effects. And there in lies the difference. Tenyo Elite are Tenyo-approved, so essentially part of the Tenyo family. Magic Wagon effects, while great, are not.

. . . one of the posts resurrected from the Tenyo topic that vanished two nights ago.
Message: Posted by: ChasVH (Feb 20, 2013 11:43AM)
Peter I know you are not going to answer one way or another but my 2 guesses on what your next Tenyo Elite item you are making out of wood is either T-110 Zig Zag Cig or T-115 UltraSlice. Both are roughly 30 years ago, Gimmicky and would be nice if made in Wood. Just a guess.

Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Feb 20, 2013 01:52PM)
I love guesses, and the good news is you won't have to wait much longer to find out.

Message: Posted by: dragonash (Feb 20, 2013 05:36PM)
Looking back, I see I was mistaken. But at first, when you said it was made from wood, I was SURE it was an appearing cane. <wink>
Message: Posted by: pierredan (Feb 20, 2013 09:27PM)
I hope that it is not something that is still in production. I would prefer older items that are coveted and hard to find (and also fetch a small fortune on the Eb**).
Message: Posted by: edshern (Feb 21, 2013 09:13PM)
I've been looking high and low for one of these.
It's exactly what I need.
So,,,, please put me down for one please.
Let me know your preferred method of payment,
and how much.
Message: Posted by: mirror mate (Feb 22, 2013 01:45PM)
I think maybee an ULTRA TUBE made of wood?? that's my theory.
Message: Posted by: ChasVH (Feb 22, 2013 02:02PM)
That would be something.... with the gimmick that locks in place maybe? Whatever it is I think we are all looking forward to it.

Message: Posted by: mirror mate (Apr 5, 2013 02:49PM)
Any news yet guys on the new Tenyo Elite items?? surely its time for an announcement no?? MM.
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Apr 6, 2013 11:27AM)
I believe at least we can now know what the next item will be, no? :) I actually don't fully understand why to keep it such a secret as Tenyo already gave an OK to produce it?
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (Apr 23, 2013 02:43PM)

Can you share where your team is at with it now? A mention of what the release will be would be nice too!
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (May 1, 2013 04:28PM)
So. . . . ?
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (May 1, 2013 05:03PM)
It will be announced when it is ready.
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (May 1, 2013 08:25PM)
Did Tenyo ever release a trick named "Vague?"
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (May 1, 2013 08:45PM)
On 2013-05-01 21:25, MagiChrisMitch wrote:
Did Tenyo ever release a trick named "Vague?"

I prefer "Mysterious."
I'm content to wait. These guys know what they are doing...Plus...they are doing it. We aren't.
So, I admire that and will give them all the slack they need and deserve.
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (May 1, 2013 09:06PM)
Thank you for understanding Oz. It's very much appreciated. It will be worth the wait.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (May 2, 2013 02:08PM)
This could be a banner Tenyo year... the possibility of a big Tenyo book from Kaufman by year end, early indications of a solid line up from Tenyo for 2014 and a new Tenyo Elite item!!
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (May 2, 2013 03:18PM)
Could we be reading Richard's book before this next Tenyo Elite is released?
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (May 2, 2013 03:42PM)
What does that matter? We are certainly not going to rush things because of you, a book or anything else. Both us and Tenyo will not settle for anything less then perfection. If you can't wait, than move onto another thread please.
Message: Posted by: mirror mate (May 2, 2013 04:52PM)
Yeah Tenyo Elite crazy spots out soon! followed up by Elite Telestar.
Message: Posted by: mirror mate (May 2, 2013 04:56PM)
Followed by The most over done trick ever SOFT Coins lol
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (May 2, 2013 08:24PM)
Message: Posted by: Franky33 (May 2, 2013 11:54PM)
Will the already existing Tenyo Elite items be in the Tenyo Book by Richard Kaufman?
Message: Posted by: Franky33 (May 3, 2013 12:11AM)
On 2013-05-02 21:24, Peter Loughran wrote:

I think some people are getting frustrated with the long delays. I think the problem stems from talking about the product with the general public too early in the process. I have a feeling Richard Kaufman is going to run into the same problem with the book. There was a similar problem with Paul Harris and the Little Man project as well but I am not really up on exactly what happened there. In my experiences, it is best to wait until the final product has been produced before mentioning it even exists. I know it is hard and you want to share your excitement but if it were me I would try and wait as long as possible. There may be appropriate instances to mention a product early in the process, but since there are no competitors to the Tenyo Elite item or the Tenyo Book it does not apply here.
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (May 3, 2013 07:27AM)
Hi Franky33.

You might be right here about frustration. But people were asking us about the progress of a new item, and the status of the company, and because it had been so long since our last releases we felt it was very important to tell our customers that there was one in the works (unlike Paul Harris who was constantly releasing tricks when little man was announced). We felt they should not be ignored. I explained where we were in the process, and I have explained numerous times in several threads about the challenges that exist with a project like this and that it will take time. We are very close to our next release, but we have given no release date,(unlike the little man trick).

But regardless of frustration, a rude comment like the ones from mirror mate are uncalled for, add nothing, are disrespectful to us and Tenyo, and I see nothing related in them about frustration. And what I still find amazing is people will come to Steve Brooks' Café, and make insulting comments about one of his businesses. That's like me going into your house and insulting you and making rude and sarcastic comments about you. In my house I ask people like that to leave.

Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 3, 2013 09:14AM)
Thanks for the clarification Peter....

So when does the new trick come out?
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (May 3, 2013 10:35AM)
Peter and the team have always been upfront about the challenges they have had with this project. I am just gald they are keeping the vision alive. Continue to take the time needed to do it right, clearly there is excitement for the new release which is good, but let's stay cordial here folks.

Message: Posted by: Killertweety (May 3, 2013 12:02PM)
On 2013-05-03 11:35, J M Talbot wrote:
Peter and the team have always been upfront about the challenges they have had with this project. I am just gald they are keeping the vision alive. Continue to take the time needed to do it right, clearly there is excitement for the new release which is good, but let's stay cordial here folks.


Amen to that. I just wanted to know what the next release will be, you guys can be sure it will be 'unavailable' quickly if it is indeed the 'gem' you are promising :) Anyway, take your time guys, looking forward to it :) The release date is not that important to me, what makes my heart go in overdrive is thinking about WHAT item you will release ;)
Message: Posted by: Franky33 (May 3, 2013 12:51PM)
I read through the thread and saw your hint about the next item. My guess is either Tunnel of Darkness or Black Hole based on the timeline and the mention of "gimmicky." Hopefully there wil be enough product to satisfy the demand. Tenyo fans seem very passionate and are feverish about getting their items.

The Tenyo blog from France made it so easy to look up what tricks were from the timeframe mentioned. The future Tenyo book can be used for that once it is in people hands but for research, a computer is so much quicker and accessible. There are so many Tenyo items and information about them on the blog that I didn't know even existed. Pretty cool.

I know Tenyo Elite is affiliated with Tenyo, will the Tenyo Elite items be in the new Tenyo book by Richard Kaufman?
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (May 24, 2013 11:00PM)
I'm just reporting on my book as it goes along, and it's coming along nicely. Might it be delayed? I don't know! At the rate I'm writing, and with the help I'm receiving from the Tenyo company and other Tenyo collectors (and the invaluable help of having Stereo's blog available), I might well make it on time! My book will have an enormous amount of information that does not appear on Stereo's blog, but that's because I am spending time with each of the principle members of Tenyo's creative team, as well as Angelo Carbone and Lubor Fiedler. Stereo has done a remarkable job compiling information from many published sources, but it's quite different from my book.

Franky33: you need to understand that a book is around forever. Hundreds of years. So, if material is still coming in, I'm not going to just stop writing and not include it to get the book out by December 30, 2013.

When you write a book, it's a reference tool that will be used for a long long time. My book will exist long after Stereo's blog has vanished from the internet and all of us are dead.
Message: Posted by: mirror mate (Jun 3, 2013 08:18AM)
Any news yet guys on the new Elite item?? you said we were a matter of weeks away for an announcement ? and weeks and weeks pass and still no news, come on fellas let us know..
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Jun 5, 2013 07:23AM)
The final prototype is taking a bit longer than expected. It must be perfect this time around for approval.
Message: Posted by: mirror mate (Jun 5, 2013 04:24PM)
Thanks peter.
Message: Posted by: Bill (Jul 25, 2013 08:50PM)
End of July....Moving right along I see..
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Jul 27, 2013 12:07AM)
How is it that Magic Wagon puts out many near perfection wonders on a consistent timeline?... and Tenyo Elite chugs along like a tired freight train?
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Jul 27, 2013 04:52AM)
I believe it has been mentioned before that the Tenyo company has to give its permission and they have high expectations, therefore if an item isn't what they have in mind the Elite team has to adjust or redo it (puzzles me when Elite has permission to reproduce an item Tenyo still has to 'approve' though ...). Perhaps that is a possible reason that causes this incredible delay ... it has been two years now we're waiting I think ... .
An update once in a while would be welcome though ... .
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Jul 30, 2013 11:21AM)
Killertweety is absolutely right. Unlike Magic Wagon, we work closely with Tenyo and require their permission and authorziation on all aspects of the development process of Tenyo's tricks. When a prototype is made, it is sent to our partner in California (Steve Brooks), then it is sent to Canada for Myself and Jason Palter to review and make notes and changes, then it is sent off to Japan for Tenyo to make notes and changes. Then it is sent back to the manufacturer for them to make changes. It is a lengthy process. But we would have it no other way.

Not to mention this time around, we completely did a 180 and have changed manufactuers with this one being all crafted by Hand, and not machaines. And we also changed material, this time around and added so much more detail, and changed the entire company format. We have seen our second prototype for the next release and it is awesome! Just a couple of minor tweaks are being done as we speak to the next prototype which is almost complete and we believe this last one will be the finished version. This next release was WAY more complicated to make then we anticipated, but wow is it ever cool! We can then make our announcement once we get final approval from Japan. We are all very excited! We do this for love, so I don't care how long it takes, just as long as the final piece is perfect and honors Tenyo's original creation.
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Jul 30, 2013 03:13PM)
Wow... sounds amazing.

Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Jul 30, 2013 03:34PM)
Thank you for all this information Peter!
Message: Posted by: mirror mate (Aug 11, 2013 10:50AM)
And still no info about the new Tenyo Elite trick,what a farce,come on guys please sort it out..MM
Message: Posted by: BanzaiMagic (Aug 16, 2013 03:01AM)
On 2013-08-11 11:50, mirror mate wrote:
And still no info about the new Tenyo Elite trick,what a farce,come on guys please sort it out..MM

Jeez! What Peter needs right now are prayers and good wishes for a speedy recovery. Let it go MM.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Aug 16, 2013 10:38AM)
What is wrong with Peter? Is he sick or hurt?
Message: Posted by: superpixel (Aug 16, 2013 10:22PM)
I'm very excited by the fact that so much care and attention are being paid to the creation and manufacture of the next Elite item. I hope Peter is OK (Banzai?) and the team is progressing for a release this year :) Also looking forward to the book -- Mr. Kaufman is right, the book will last generations.
Message: Posted by: mirror mate (Sep 16, 2013 07:40AM)
Message: Posted by: Julie (Sep 16, 2013 03:21PM)
On 2013-09-16 08:40, mirror mate wrote:


Why all the shouting? It'll get here when it gets here.

We're all friends. No reason to be offensive...

Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Sep 16, 2013 03:56PM)
I agree Julie, MM are you aware how rude your posts come across?
Message: Posted by: mirror mate (Sep 17, 2013 05:32AM)
I appologise didn't mean to be rude.. MM
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Oct 4, 2013 09:11PM)
Hello all:

May I first apologize on behalf of my partners Steve, Peter and myself for the delay on an update. As many of you have noticed over the past while, Peter has kindly taken the reigns from Steve and I to do most of the responding for our Tenyo Elite threads here on the Café. But for those of you who do not know yet, my close and dear friend (and one of my business partners on Tenyo Elite) Peter has been diagnosed with cancer. That's the bad news. The good news is that it looks like it will be very treatable, and we will have Peter around for a long, long time!! I don't really want to clog up this thread with the details of his condition, as much of this is Peter's private business. However I was given permission by Pete to disclose this information, and I just wanted everyone to know. He is currently undergoing treatment, and is doing well. With that in mind, Steve and I will try now to do some more of the responses while Peter undergoes treatment. Peter has asked to please send him any well wishes via his email, Facebook, etc. instead of on the Tenyo Elite threads.

I'm sorry to say mirror-mate, but I agree with Julie and JM Talbot: your comments really do come across as offensive, and not really beneficial at all. The problem with writing on a forum as we all know, is that it is relatively "anonymous" and anyone can literally say anything behind the "security" of their computer. The other problem is that when you remove the "personal touch" of an actual face-to-face conversation or a phone call, you also take away much of the true intention and energy of the correspondence. What I mean is that emails, texts and instant messages have no TONE. When you hear someone's voice, you get a good feel for what their intention was in their statement, but when you "read" a message, you cannot always get that feel. So what many of us have learned the hard way, is that you have to literally WRITE your emotions by using smiley faces, LOL, etc. so that people can't mistaken what your true intentions of your words were. Mirror-mate, I know that you are frustrated by the delays (so are we)…..but if you re-read your post perhaps you will see how it can come across as rather abrupt, sarcastic, and not really nice at all. lol

Anyhow so now down to business: For those of you who do not know, the marketing of a magic trick by an individual takes more time, money, energy, and sheer guts (because you're putting yourself "out there" to the magic community who may not like your idea) than you can even imagine. Now when you are marketing a line of tricks like we are, but dealing with the intricacies of ensuring the product meets the standards of a wonderful company like Tenyo (arguably one of the most famous and most respected toy and magic companies in the world)....well suddenly that process of bringing a trick to market gets much more complicated. Don't get me wrong, Tenyo has been amazing to deal with, but there are a lot of things that must be done to honour their original ideas, and stay within the scope of their requests to us.

For our next release, we endeavoured to take on one of Tenyo's more "complicated" tricks to reproduce, and as a result this is taking more time than we anticipated. If you think those of you reading this thread and/or those of you that have written here or to us personally are frustrated by the delays----can you imagine how Peter, Steve and I feel! LOL! It is maddening at times, but it is unfortunately part of the manufacturing process sometimes.

As Peter has stated many times, we are not going to release something inferior or that isn't ready to be put out prematurely (I hate to think how people would react if we rushed a trick to market before it was ready and it was bad quality!). But I hope everyone understands that we will do this as WE see fit, and utilizing a process, method and timeline that is in the best interests of us---not anyone else. That is because we are pouring countless personal hours and funds into this project, ensuring that we are respecting Tenyo's wishes and direction, and being true to the vision that we have for the project. We are going to do each trick release right the FIRST time. If that means that we have to hold off on it a little longer, then we will, and please respect that we have good reasons for any delays.

Tenyo Elite is a labor of love that is costing my parters and I countless amounts of dollars in personal investment, and also taking a great amount of time from other things in our lives. To everyone who is reading this, and perhaps have written rather "unproductive" messages to us demanding we release the next trick:  Please understand that we want this next trick out just as badly as you do, however the tricks will be released in the best interests of OUR timelines, not on anyone else's.

So there is the latest update. We are steadily working on things, and have been dealing with some unforeseen road-blocks and delays. However we are continuing to move forward and will hopefully have more news soon.

Thank you for your time.

Message: Posted by: Izzy Jay (Nov 14, 2013 04:13AM)
Seeing as the other topic with updates
disappeared, I guess this topic is the next ideal
choice for more updates. Anyone know what
happened to the other topic?
Message: Posted by: Dallas Robbins (Nov 14, 2013 08:06AM)
Ya, that is kinda weird, the topic just dissapeared.
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Nov 14, 2013 08:40AM)
Yes I think the user MirrorMate was being removed for his recent vulgar language and disrespect for Tenyo and in the process I think the thread was deleted by mistake but I'm not a 100% sure. Please remember Tenyo visits these forums and the descriptive language used by Mirror Mate in regards to their creations will not be tolerated. There are other ways to say something then the words he chose. But we did warn him.
I will see if the old thread can be recovered.
Message: Posted by: Izzy Jay (Nov 14, 2013 09:25AM)
Okay. That makes sense. Thanks Peter.
Message: Posted by: Izzy Jay (Nov 14, 2013 09:30AM)
You're right Peter. I just checked his status (Mirror Mate). It says: This member has been banned from The Magic Café.
Message: Posted by: Rick11 (Nov 14, 2013 01:51PM)
I have to commend the Magic Café for not allowing disrespect towards Peter, Tenyo and the Magic Café. It's a privilege to be able to use this fantastic site to further our knowledge in the art of magic. Its just mind boggling how anyone can be that disrespectful!

Message: Posted by: teevtee (Nov 15, 2013 12:59PM)
I actually really hate cencorship in any form. Idiots tend to prove themselves to be just that and people know what they are dealing with.

With that said I did not see what he wrote and I am thankful not to have. There is never a valid reason to be a jerk, especially when dealing with serious issues such as health (I hope it had nothing to do with that).
And even I must aknowledge that internet forums can quickly get out of hand with trolls and insensetive posts.
Message: Posted by: stereo (Nov 20, 2013 04:58PM)
This forum (like the Tenyo one) was completly destructed step by step by some negative, vulgar, disrespect peoples.
They now have built their own forum and that's a really, really good news. Hope to don't have to support them anymore and hope they will be very happy in this new place to don't need to come here again.

I wish all the succees to the Tenyo Elite team, and I say Thank you to them to all the work they have done.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Nov 21, 2013 09:33AM)
I guess I was fortunate enough to not see these posts before they got deleted.
I'm glad because it is always hard for me to deal with. Like I said on one hand I feel people generally should have the right to say whatever and act however they please... even if it is offensive. It reveals who they are and allows others to judged them on how they act.

On the other hand, on a personal level, I find that kind of behavior reprehensible so it really gets under my skin.

I'm glad I missed it.
Message: Posted by: auriuspd (Jan 1, 2017 11:30AM)
Any teasers on the next Elite item??
Message: Posted by: Robert Houdin 78 (Jun 9, 2017 10:42PM)
[quote]On Jan 1, 2017, auriuspd wrote:
Any teasers on the next Elite item?? [/quote]

I'm also looking forward to the next one...
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Jun 17, 2017 10:34AM)
Hey guys, sorry for the late reply, I've been super busy, but I'm happy to report that the prototype for our latest Tenyo Elite item is just getting the final touches before it heads off to Japan for approval! I can't say what it is, but I've had a blast fooling everyone with this I've shown it to so far! You guys will enjoy performing this one!