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Topic: Free Trick Giveaway - SCISP is Released! Free Download
Message: Posted by: Zach Allen (Nov 16, 2003 10:20PM)
Finally, free effect number one is here, SCISP - ready for your reading. For those of you who perhaps haven't followed the other thread, I'm putting together a book of about 30 effects or so for publication, and I decided to release two effects for free. The Café members voted, and this was the top effect, and so now it it being released free as a downloadable PDF file.

Here's the scoop on the other one. Today, I was finishing up the editing on the PDF, when everything crashed. I was able to get back some of the PDF, but had to redo a good deal of it, which means that the PDF is not as polished as I would've liked it to be. There are several spelling/grammatical errors, which normally I would fix. However, I did promise you that it would be out tonight, so I'm posting the link now and I will make the changes tomorrow, and post the link to the updated file. As for Slo-Mo, I lost the text and the graphics. If I can sit down for one night I will be able to get it all done, but odds are it might take until the end of the week until you get that one. But like I said, it will definitely be here before Thanksgiving.

I uploaded the file onto a Geocities server...as a result, there may be pop-ups and the page may quickly go over its capacity and not allow people to access it. If you can't get to the file, post a message in the forum and I will do my best to remedy the situation. If anyone has a more secure server, and wishes to host the file for me (which is small, only about 85KB) I would be forever indebted.

As I said, the file is small, so no matter what modem you have, it should be easily accessed. All you need is a fairly recent version of Adobe Acrobat and you're all set.

I look forward to the comments/criticism. Enjoy!

[url]http://www.geocities.com/magicpdog/scisp.html[/url]

I'm not sure if this will automatically become a click-able link. If not, I apologize.

Zach
Message: Posted by: tropicalpenguin (Nov 16, 2003 10:39PM)
YAAAYYY!!! :dancing: :yippee: :bigdance:
Message: Posted by: Paul Menzel (Nov 16, 2003 11:11PM)
Zach,

If the cards are placed on the participant's palm face up then pocketed, the "selection" will be withdrawn back outwards, contrary to the picture in your file, correct? I'm just thinking that that fact makes an impromptu approach more appealing whereas the pictures would make it seem impossible to get away with. This way there is no need for a dupe. In fact, one could allow a free selection to be withdrawn from the deck by the spectator then signed, thus subtly impressing its singularity.

Also, from a presentational standpoint, I'd recommend not stressing naturalness in palming. Demonstrate by forming the spectator's hand into a claw-like position. This would increase the security of the alignment and make your own palming less recognizable (unless you palm badly like that!), making it feel less like exposure.

Going into an AC routine after that seems to me that it would make the palming demonstration a throwaway bit. Why not instead continue with the "teaching." There's a face down card on the table--have it replaced in the deck (have the deck cut, card placed on top, and the cut completed?) then have your assistant shuffle the cards. Explain that at that point the magician would have the spectator think of a number between 10 and 20. Have him chose a number then count down to that card, setting it aside, face down. "Wouldn't it be pretty impressive if that was your card?" Of course it would be! Have him turn the card over, revealing that it is not the signed selection. "Well, that would have been good if it worked! But there's no way that could have been your card, could it?" Ribbon spread the deck face up (I'm assuming a no dupe version here) to show the card is gone. (Gasp!) Where could it be? They'll think of their pocket soon enough, and if not, gently guide them to that conclusion. Compliment him on how quickly he learned to perform magic.

(Yes, this is basically Carlyle's "Homing Card," but in the spectator's pocket!--borrowing from Scott Guinn's "Downs Home" presentation.)
Message: Posted by: Zach Allen (Nov 16, 2003 11:57PM)
Paul - Thanks for pointing out the picture discrepancy. I will correct that tomorrow when I am a bit more awake.

Point number 2 - I actually don't have them go for a natural look in the palm, but more so the "claw" look that you mentioned. I'll have to make sure that I make that more clear in the manuscript.

3rd point - The presentation you mention is actually quite similar to the original presentation I used to do. However, I determined, after performing this both ways, that when I "changed the moment", so to speak, by performing some other routine, the appearance of the card in the pocket would be not quite so magical. As both David Regal and Simon Lovell pointed out to me, it would lead to the spectator thinking that the card must have been put in their pocket by way of themselves - not too magical. I agree, "teaching" them more magic is a great idea - but in doing so, it would probably be best to put some time in-between the placing of the card in the pocket, and the revelation. I speak from experience on that point - As I mentioned in the manuscript, the first 12 times in a row I performed it the trick failed. What I didn't mention is that out of the times after that until I "changed the moment" of the revelation, my feelings went from elation at the fact that the card ended up in the pocket without them knowing to absolute downheartedness when the spectator said, "Hey, I must've put the card in my pocket myself. I'm not quite so sure how I did it, but that was pretty clever of you."

But, of course, I encourage different presentations; after all, I don't want everyone trying to be me. (Even though that would be a nice boost for the ego. :) )

The two things I keep stressing are, TRY THIS, as it will work, and put some time in-between the spectator removing the duplicate from the pocket, and the revelation in the pocket.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if any of that was coherent, as it's getting on 1 in the morning here. Thanks for the feedback, Paul; it is much appreciated.

Zach
Message: Posted by: J.Warrens (Nov 17, 2003 12:10AM)
Greetings!
A little point to add in:
In any type of routine where you are dealing with the exposure of palming, whether it be an "Invisible Palm" routine, etc., NEVER refer to it as palming.

Instead of calling it "palming", I call the move "the secretly hiding the cards in your hand move" as if that's the actual name we magicians call it. The spectator's also find that notion humorous, too!
Just a thought.
Cheers,
J.Warrens
Message: Posted by: montz (Nov 17, 2003 03:30AM)
Zach, I've just read it, and I have just one thing to say.

MOOOHAHAHA

I'm not sure I'll have the nerve to try it, but what an inspired idea! Unquestionably the most interesting thing I've read in years!

Keep up the good work my friend!

Liam.
Message: Posted by: placebo (Nov 17, 2003 04:08AM)
I will definitely be using this, but performing it slightly different, safer way.

I will talk about how magicians have the same skills as expert pickpockets (or something like that), and I will demonstrate this. I will then go on to tell them how we can plant things in their pockets as well as taking things out, putting the double into their pocket MYSELF at the same time, and then removing the single.

Although this won't be as hard-hitting as the original method, it's a lot less risky

Excellent idea Zach, congratulations. This is the sort of thing I would expect to read in the Art of Astonishment books.
Message: Posted by: Dave Le Fevre (Nov 17, 2003 06:41AM)
Innovative! I don't think I'll have the ***** to pull that one off, though.

Zach, I know that you said that you put the PDF together in a hurry, and that of course explains the typos. But if and when you've "polished" it, if you'd like it proofread, I'd be happy to oblige. I'm not a professional proofreader. But I have the knack of proofreading. I often find that I read articles or books with a pencil in hand, marking up all the typos. A member of my magic club prepared some notes for publication, and two other members proofread them. Then I read them, and found quite a few further typos. Drop me a PM if I can help.

Thanks for sharing SCISP with us,
Dave
Message: Posted by: djvirtualreality (Nov 17, 2003 07:21AM)
Thank you Zach, it is very nice. I think watch stealing takes guts, so I think I'll be able to do this after some practice. Thank you again. :)
Message: Posted by: tropicalpenguin (Nov 17, 2003 07:55AM)
Once again Zach, you have shown the innate ability to rock hard-core. :righton: :band: :righton: :pepsi:

Enough of the smiley show..

Got it memorized and prepared. I'm going to see how it goes at school today, if I can summon up the courage to pull it off.

I personally think that this was a great effect to release for free. It would be a shame to purchase an effect that is just so gutsy that it would turn someone away. Overall, awesome trick!!!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Two thumbs up!
Message: Posted by: Paul Menzel (Nov 17, 2003 04:04PM)
Zach,

I certainly understand the benefit of time delay. It just seems to me there should be some pay off for the "exposure."

I suspect miscalling the card (if, in the scenario I described, the performer places the card in the cut) could compensate for the time delay. But I suppose I'll have to try it to know for sure.

Thanks for sharing your work.
Message: Posted by: Zach Allen (Nov 17, 2003 04:21PM)
Thanks all, for your comments.

tropicalpenguin,
That was my original thought when I first was planning on releasing this. I wanted to include the effect along with other routines, so that the buyer wouldn't feel "cheated" purchasing a secret, essentially, that had a possibility of failure. Tim Trono was the one who first opened my eyes to that. I had a gut feeling that SCISP would be one of the winners of the free trick giveaway, and even if it weren’t, it would still be in a book with about 30 other tricks, so no one could say that they had been cheated when they bought it.

Paul,
I can understand you looking for more payoff from the exposure. One scenario that I could see myself performing would be to actually have the spectator perform a trick. After they have loaded their card into their pocket, and removed the duplicate, have them do the same, but with their right hand. Of course, you'd want to place the card face down on their palm this time. Then, after they practice palming with the right hand/pocket, move on to a "trick". Give them about half the cards, and instruct them to place their card on top. (You could turn over the top card of your half to show that you will guide them)

Then, turn your cards face up and perform an overhand shuffle, throwing the rest of the cards underneath, so that the original top card ends up back on top at the end of the shuffle. Hopefully that made sense...and while you are doing those actions, you're instructing the spectator on how to perform the same control… more exposure again. Then, have them palm the card - right hand - place it in their pocket - "Be sure not to look at your hand, as it will look suspicious"(and keep them from looking at the duplicate too carefully) - and then pull it out of their pocket.

You could have them build it up, and shuffle the cards, snapping their fingers and making it vanish. For even more time, you could poll the audience, asking them if they were fooled, and how well they thought the spectator did. Then, take all the cards back and tell them that it is your turn to do a trick. Place the selection in the middle, have the spectator shuffle the cards, and then fail to make the card come to the top. Then, yell at the spectator for "practicing your trick when I didn't tell you too...now give me the card back so I can try again" and then they will be amazed when they see that the card has jumped to their pocket. Seems kind of long-winded, but I think you get the point.

Paul, I'm not trying to be critical of your idea at all; on the contrary, I think it is an excellent one. I'm not familiar with your performing style at all, so I can't say whether or not your idea will have the necessary time delay in order to make SCISP a convincing effect. If you do try it out with your presentation (and I urge you to do so) please let me know how it worked, as I would be very interested to find out. Thanks again for your thoughts!

Keep the comments coming.

Zach

By the way, I had a couple of PM's from people complaining that they couldn't access the PDF file. The site appears to be working fine now.

Zach :online:
Message: Posted by: tropicalpenguin (Nov 17, 2003 05:31PM)
Got to work on the pocketing method. For me, it works better if you tell them to push their hand to the outside of their pocket. It makes sure that they don't touch the cards after they are in their pocket. I only have a limited number of duplicates in my wallet that I use for other tricks, so I only tried it once. I also got to work on my DL. (It really, REALLY sucks.) But other than that, It was pretty good. Thanks again!
Message: Posted by: Logan (Nov 17, 2003 09:06PM)
Zach,

I must say, I was not disappointed at all with this. At first I was like, "Excuse me...?" Then, I thought about it, and I KNOW this will work, provided you can make your spectator focus so much on what you SAY that the 'palming' hand is secondary in their focus.

With that aside, I have an idea I would like to share with you. This will greatly increase the conviction of the selected card being on the table whilst it's actually sitting snug in the pocket.

Force a card, mark it the usual way and ask them to sign it. Then, do an Ambitious card routine or whatever signed card routine you wish. After that, take the signed card and you sign YOUR name on the back of the card and call it a souvenir.

Hand them the card and as they take it from your right hand, your left hand goes into your pocket to cop the duplicate of the signed card, but the dupe also has YOUR signature on the back of it. Quickly add it to the bottom of the pack.

Then you say that you're going to teach them some Las Vegas quality cheating skills for being such a wonderful audience. Take the signed card back and say you're going to use this as an example because since it’s signed, it's easier to keep track of. Place it on top of the deck and get a break above the signed dupe… double undercut whilst talking about Las Vegas cheating. This should place the signed dupe above the selected card on top of the deck and no one will be the wiser as the dupe has your signature on the back as well. Then do a double lift, and carry on as per SCISP. Though this time, when they remove the card, the conviction is already there, they see your name on it. Indeed you can still flash the face, but having seeing the back being different from all the other cards makes them feel a lot more comfortable and less prone to question the authenticity of it - furthermore, after the effect is completed, with this added convincer, it'll be hard for them to trace the trick backwards to see how it was done.


Then you go into a little 'Invisible Palm Aces' routine and talk about Las Vegas Cheating whilst the dupe sits on one corner of the table - the spectator is convinced that that is their card. After that little routine, you get back to their signed card and do with it what you will! You could even do an invisible palm of the signed card (so when you let the dupe drop back on the deck, do a quick wrist kill) and rub in on the pants pocket of the spectator and the card materializes in their pocket!

Real magic!

This is good stuff Zach and I hope many benefit from it as well as the ideas in this thread!

Thanks, I WILL USE THIS!

Take care buddy,

Logan
Message: Posted by: Zach Allen (Nov 17, 2003 09:19PM)
Excellent, Logan. I like those ideas a lot.

See, this is what I love about the MagicCafe...so many magical minds meeting and sharing ideas. The ideas that spawn from the group discussions are priceless, and help to move the art of magic further along. All of these contributions have helped to move SCISP (which in my honest opinion is a pretty good trick, but of course, I WOULD think that :) ) further along the path to becoming greater.

Thanks again, all.

Zach
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Nov 18, 2003 04:44AM)
Zach,

You da man! Thanks a lot!

Wayne :jump:
Message: Posted by: eggshell (Nov 18, 2003 02:18PM)
Great effect Zach.

How about after the card is loaded that the dupe is put back face down on the pack and you use the following patter on the spectator.

"Now we go into advanced mode"

Get them to do some silly finger moves and say some preposterous "magic" words and then hold their palm over the dupe card on the top of the pack.

"Now lift your palm up and show it to everybody. Nothing there hey! that's what everybody thinks but you are in the middle of the famous Allen manipulation Mr Spec and everything is going well !"

"Hold your hand just near to your pocket and say under your breath (So nobody hears) "Ziccy Zaccy Zac !"

"Let me see your hand/ Well done you've done it !"

"Don't believe it hey! Well sometimes it is so smooth even I don't believe I've done it..but check your pocket !"

"Round of applause for our new master magician !"

Of course the silliness of the finger moves and the magic words tells everybody that you really did all this.
Message: Posted by: Ben721 (Nov 18, 2003 07:43PM)
I enjoyed it. It is quite bold, but when I was reading everybodys comments I expected something different. I may give this one a try.
Message: Posted by: Zach Allen (Nov 18, 2003 08:13PM)
Eggshell, nice presentation...I like it.

Logan,
After reading your idea I came up with a killer addition to that which would make it appear even more impossible.

The setup is the same as in SCISP, except sign the BACK of the card the spectator will pick (the one second from the top) with your signature.

The performance is the same as in the original SCISP, up to when the duplicate is removed from the pocket. (If following Logan's handling, make the corrections) The duplicate they removed will have the duplicate signature on the face, and nothing on the back. Because of the nature of the effect, the card in their pocket has both your signature and their's on it.

Now, you can do your Ambitious routine or whatever. Afterwards you sign the back of your card, saying that you want to give it to them as a souvenir, per Logan's patter. Tell them that you'll give it to them in a magical manner. Do a tent vanish or Erdnase change or something to make the card "disappear", and then reappear in their pocket. Because of the convincer of the signed card that has both signatures on it (and yours was added after it had been removed from the pocket the first time) the transfer seems much more magical.

I was also toying with the idea of instead of your name on the back of the card, use some kind of psychological force on the spectator and draw their "free choice" of a number, figure, etc. on the back of the card...as if the original version didn't take enough ***** to perform, now you have the added chance that the psychological force will fail. :bg:

This is actually a bit different approach than the one Logan took, as I believe he was going for the visual convincer that it was their card when it was removed from the pocket the first time. This variation I just posted is more for a convincer in the magical appearance in the pocket. Well, to each their own...

Thanks for the comments, all. I really appreciate them.

Zach
Message: Posted by: Logan (Nov 18, 2003 09:45PM)
Hey Zach,

Your idea really sounds wicked man! And yes it's true, both our methods support different things. Yours makes it more impossible, and mine is more convincing, maybe I'll switch between methods :lol:

Take care man and good luck,

Logan
Message: Posted by: Zach Allen (Nov 18, 2003 10:19PM)
Switching methods is always a good thing...I myself have come up with several new additions to the routine, based on the feedback of the posters...in future releases of the booklet, I'll be sure to contact all that have contributed and ask for their permission to include their variation/convincer/presentation, with full credits.

On a side note, I sometimes wonder what laymen would think if they knew all of the hard work that does into our magic. :confused: Once, in order to make an attempt at feeling superior :bg: , I tried explaining to my laymen friend once all of the thinking that went into SCISP and all of the variations I came up with, and he shook his head halfway through my monologue and said something along the lines of "you have no life". I took great pleasure in the fact that I fried him with SCISP the next day. :devilish:

Me: concluding my latest miracle that I've worked on for five hours a day for seven months, and am just now trying in live performance for the first time. "The impossible has just happened."

Spectator : "That was pretty good. So, did you catch the game last night?"

Me: "Ahhh...I spent seven months on that and all you can say is...yeah, I did catch the game, that was a great play in the second half, huh?

It's ironic that we spend countless hours practicing what the spectators will never see.

Anyway, after that tangent, I'll move back on to topic...thanks for the comments, keep 'em coming!

Zach

Just an update...with any luck, I'll have Slo-Mo out soon, hopefully by the end of the week. Thanks!

Zach
Message: Posted by: Logan (Nov 19, 2003 06:46AM)
I agree with you Zach!

Talk about lack of appreciation! But that is the life of a magician, isn't it? Oh well, what to do?

I guess it all pays off when I receive profanity filled remarks of astonishment as well as the sweet sound of jaws dropping and head smacking! When I get those reactions, I forget all the hard work and toil it took to get me there and it's only then that you'll know that it was all WORTH IT!

And you know what, it will show in the performance of the trick!

It took me about a year to master Copperfield's Ace Assembly and then come up with my own ace assembly and by now, whoever has seen me perform it will always say it's my best trick. Heck, it won me a talent contest! It will show, so worry not my friend!

Take care buddy,

Logan
Message: Posted by: Dave Le Fevre (Nov 19, 2003 08:29AM)
Zach, that's always been the layman's attitude - knowing the method is all that interests them.

They don't appreciate the effort that goes into coming up with an effect, working on the patter, polishing the details, practising the sleights. It's simply not of interest to them.

How often have you been asked [i]"How did you do that?"[/i] or [i]"How did he do that?"[/i]

Compare and contrast that with number of times you've been asked [i]"How long did it take you to come up with that effect?"[/i] or [i]"How much practice did that take you?"[/i]

Dave
Message: Posted by: Zach Allen (Nov 20, 2003 10:33PM)
Logan,
Just wanted to let you (and the others reading this thread) that I combined both of our ideas today and tried it out...the reaction was priceless. I performed it so that when the duplicate was drawn out of the pocket it had my signature on it, and then tried one of the numerological psychological forces - which worked - and wrote the number on the back of the card. More convincing, and more impossible!

Of course, that might be a bit overkill for regular performances (a little Too-perfect theory perhaps?), but it did get a great reaction. In fact, the person I performed it on, my friend Nick, has actually seen SCISP before, when it was in its infant stages. For someone that is already pretty jaded to my magic, I myself was surprised at how amazed he was. It was a good feeling. :bg:

On a separate note, has anyone actually tried this out yet, risk or no-risk versions?

Zach
Message: Posted by: Steven Leung (Nov 21, 2003 09:18AM)
I really appreciate your sharing. The remaining will be our effort to practice and amaze spectators.
Message: Posted by: Zach Allen (Nov 21, 2003 09:22AM)
It seemed to work fine for everyone else...what version of Acrobat Reader do you have?

Zach
Message: Posted by: Logan (Nov 21, 2003 11:11AM)
Zach! You are the man!!!
Oh man, that sounds so awesome! I swear I', going to try that! I'm gonna use that big time!

Any tips on psychologically forcing a number?

I don't think that's over kill, I can easily come up with patter to make it all make sense.

This is so powerful, I can see the power radiating from my deck... :baby:

I can see light radiating from my fingers...oh no wait, those are my D'lites...no matter, they look cool anyhow!

Can you feel it Zach? Can you feel the power? The absolute unforgiving dominating magical powers!??!

I feel so powerful right now... :shucks:

:dance:
Message: Posted by: Zach Allen (Nov 22, 2003 12:13AM)
Haha Logan,
When I read your post for some reason I just couldn't get the image of you dancing around the room laughing out loud. :bigdance:

Glad you like the idea...I find I keep coming up with more and more ideas for this thing. Anyway, about your question on psychological forces...

I haven't gotten around to picking up Banachek's Psychological Subtleties yet, so I'm in no means an expert on this...The one I used was the "think of any two digit number BUT, the digits must be odd and they cannot be the same, like 11." The two most commonly thought of numbers are 35 and 37...I wrote 37 and just happend to luck out, so it seemed like it was complete randomness. I'm sure that there are much better forces out there, that wouldn't seem so obvious in the reconstruction of the effect by the spectator, but I just tried it as an example, and thankfully it worked. Perhaps one of the mentalists on the board could enlighten us on the finer points of psychological forces...

Zach
Message: Posted by: Logan (Nov 22, 2003 06:35AM)
Hey Zach!

You must REALLY be psychic! I was doing that! Right on!!

:dance:

I find that number forcing isn't 100% effective, ya know?

There has to be another way...

Any mentalist people care to lend a hand? Or in this case, a thought?

Thanx and take care all, especially you Zach!

Logan
Message: Posted by: niva (Nov 22, 2003 01:02PM)
Sorry Zach for not writing and thanking you immediately for this trick.

Logan, YOU must be psychic. Before I read your posts, I also thought about the magician signing the card, rather than a scribble, which makes more sense I think. I also thought of doing an Invisible Palm Aces routine just before the revelation and end up with their card, hand it to them while invisible, thus "exposing" another kind of palm and tell them to place it I their pocket. They will have the shock of their lives when tey feel it materialize in their pocket. I think it is more magical this way rather than rubbing it on their pockets.

Zach, how about a convincer and making it more impossible at the same time. So... do you want to hear about it? Huh?... Huh? ;)

Ok here it goes. The spectator signs the back of the card instead of the face. You use a dupe that you already signed on the face. After he retrieves the dupe, you sign the face and the card in his pocket has already got your matching signature on the face. What a great situation you are in now. And when he removes the dupe from his pocket, there is no questioning about it, because he is seeing te face of the card, and he has just seen it's back as well when he palmed the double. Becuase in this version you need to place the "card" (really 2) face down in the spec's hands with their signature shownig. Then they proceed to pull it out as described in the pdf. How about this?? Does it make sense?

I have another secure method for when they pull the dupe out so that they do not notice there are 2 in their pocket. But this is not compatible with my above method, though. They only put their thumb inside the pants pocket and pull the card on the inside up with the thumb tip, as you state that this is a flourishy way by which a magician pulls out a card from a pocket. I think it is more deceiving this way, but not compatible with every variation.

Phew! That's enough for now. :P

What do you think guys?
Message: Posted by: eggshell (Nov 23, 2003 10:09AM)
Hi Zach,

Just to let you know that I tried this out on a group of friends using the patter that I mentioned above.

The set up ( i.e. getting card in specs pocket)actually worked first time with no problems and then the freedom it gave me to really create a good comic routine around the lines I suggested, before getting to the the final revelation was great.

I think that in your notes you actually undersell how likely this effect is to work so when the spec pulled out the first card and left the other still sitting in their pocket without a clue that it was there I was gobsmacked at how easy this was.

Another point that my "assistant" himself brought to my attention to was that he was flabbergasted at where the card came from as only a few minutes earlier he had had his hand in the same pocket and "there was nothing there then !" So subconsciously the load of the card in the first part of the effect actually convinces the spectator there is nothing in their pocket. My tip is therefore to ensure that "without making it too obvious" you do everything you can to reinforce the fact that you go nowhere near them fom the point that you get them to retrieve the first card from their pocket.

Even better in practice than in print..thanks a lot.
Message: Posted by: Zach Allen (Nov 23, 2003 03:52PM)
[quote]
On 2003-11-22 14:02, niva wrote:

...Ok here it goes. The spectator signs the back of the card instead of the face. You use a dupe that you already signed on the face. After he retrieves the dupe, you sign the face and the card in his pocket has already got your matching signature on the face. What a great situation you are in now. And when he removes the dupe from his pocket, there is no questioning about it, because he is seeing te face of the card, and he has just seen it's back as well when he palmed the double. Becuase in this version you need to place the "card" (really 2) face down in the spec's hands with their signature shownig. Then they proceed to pull it out as described in the pdf. How about this?? Does it make sense?

[/quote]

Good idea...for me, I wouldn't use that variation, because I think that in light of what Logan and I have come up with (combined forces of obsessed magicians!) However, I must say that it is a great alternative to the original version of SCISP in the manuscript. I think, however, that I'm going to be using the combination method version from now on, as I personally think it is a bit more convincing. Excellent thinking, though...I actually feel like this trick has some worth now that everyone is offering their ideas on it.

[quote]

I have another secure method for when they pull the dupe out so that they do not notice there are 2 in their pocket. But this is not compatible with my above method, though. They only put their thumb inside the pants pocket and pull the card on the inside up with the thumb tip, as you state that this is a flourishy way by which a magician pulls out a card from a pocket. I think it is more deceiving this way, but not compatible with every variation.

[/quote]

Just to clarify...the setup for this would be that, out of the double in their hand, the real signed card would be on their palm, and the card you signed would be visible with your signature visible), right? From my reading of this, it wouldn't work with the original version of SCISP, am I correct? However, if you choose to modify the effect so that the card can be drawn out of the pocket like that, it is killer. I'll have to test it out sometime, but if it works, you're right; it would be very deceiving.

Thanks for all your thoughts on this, niva - they're greatly appreciated.

eggshell,
Congrats on having it work! Looking back now, I realize that the reason I undersell it so much is because when I first started performing this, I was having the spectator hold the card a different way and having them remove it a different way, both inferior methods. I think my lack of success was partly due to that. The more I performed it, the more I realized that there were better ways to perform it, and so modified the routining, where it ended up where it presently is today. So it probably is a bit easier now...

Thanks for the second point as well, about reinforcing the idea that you never go near them...I'd just like to mention that when I perform this, whether it is for a large group of people or just one person, I NEVER get close to them after they have picked the card. I make it a point to reach out to hand them things, and make them reach out to me as well (without saying this, of course) in order to reinforce the idea that I never loaded it. Which, in a sense, is true. :)

Thanks again niva and eggshell, your ideas are excellent. Hope to hear more thoughts from people who have tried this. If nothing else, you can take eggshell's comments as testimony that it should actually work...I just tried to be somewhat realistic in the manuscript so that people wouldn't get discouraged.

Thanks again all!

Zach
Message: Posted by: niva (Nov 23, 2003 05:38PM)
Hi Zach.

In the method I described, the magician signs the card (actually the dupe) after the spectator pulls it out from his pocket. The other one in his pocket already has the magician's signature. So you must give the double to him with his signed card on top, (signature on back facing up and magi's signature on the face) and the dupe underneath. I hope it is more clear now. I tried to also combine your idea of signing the card afterwards for that extra convincer you mentioned.

I will try this sometime soon.
Message: Posted by: daniel1113 (Nov 24, 2003 05:12AM)
Hey Zach,

All I have to say is... wow! It's innovative and gutsy, and exactly what I've been looking for. I needed an effect to add to my routine that involved the spectator, and SCISP fits perfectly. I am going to try performing the original version a few times, then I will come back and add some of the suggestions that have been offered. Thanks for this awesome effect.
Message: Posted by: submagi (Nov 24, 2003 02:00PM)
I haven't really tried this, but here is my concern..

The spectator has 2 cards in his pocket, when he reaches in how do we know he is going to grab the duplicate? What if he grabs the original signed card? And what is stopping the cards from easily seperating and him feeling 2 cards?

Sorry if this was covered in another post, I didn't read the entire thread..
Message: Posted by: eggshell (Nov 24, 2003 02:24PM)
The best answer to this is to try it out on yourself submagi.

If you put two cards in your pocket as one and take your hand out then reach into your pocket again to get a card you'll find that you invariably go in with your fingertips first and not with thumb and fingertips.

The natural inclination is to draw the top card out by pressing your fingertips against the card and pulling your hand out until there is room for your thumb to get a purchase. By this time the card is well free of the one left behind.
Message: Posted by: niva (Nov 24, 2003 03:30PM)
Just read the pdf carefully, submagi.
Message: Posted by: submagi (Nov 24, 2003 04:26PM)
I guess I spoke to soon. After re-reading the script a couple of times and trying it out on myself it seems like it would work. Soon I will try it out on my mom and close friends, maybe ill get enough guts to perform it for strangers sometime...
Message: Posted by: Logan (Nov 24, 2003 08:54PM)
Alrighty, I've been away for too long!

Now, Niva, I must say that yes, I am psychic, comes with the whole gig of being a mage ;)

And to comment on your idea, it sounds like a good one, in fact, it sounds like the opposite of mine but there are a few things that don't make it appropriate. Firstly, they sign the card at the back of the card, meaning that you can't use that card for a certain routine before it like an Ambitious Card - therefore they sign the card for the sole purpose of it being placed into their pocket. That's alrite mind you, but I think it will leave more of an impression if you've been doing a trick with it and they see the card many times and then finally it lands in their pocket, you know? Because when you take out the dupe, they won't question it, they've seen it like 12 times because you did your ambitious with it. I'm not saying they will question it in your case, they definitely won't. It's just that you want them to be comfortable with 'their' card.

I hope I make sense... :hmmm:

But one thing I DO like is the visual conviction, of seeing the 2 of Diamonds, or 4 of Hearts or whatever the face of the selected card is being taken out of the pocket - I know there will be NO DOUBT that that is the person's selected card! But spectators are very stubborn, you don't really know what they will think, because the actual face of the card is the centre of attraction, and what's on it? Your signature - and sadly, many take the actions and words of a magi are taken with a pinch of salt. It doesn't help that the spectator's signature is in the background of the whole trick - this is just my humble opinion, I love your idea niva, make no mistake, I WILL try this variation out.

But in all honesty, I'm not sure what the reactions will be like with both methods...I like niva's though...I think it's clever, but I'll see when I get to perform this. There are some guests coming over in a couple of days...hmmm... :bg:

Hey niva! Here's a presentational idea! You talk about gambling and 'marking cards' and they can mark the back of their card with their signature! Whadaya think?

And yes Zach, I am an obsessed magician...how can I not be? This is good stuff and it always had some worth my friend!

Take care fellas,

Logan
Message: Posted by: tropicalpenguin (Nov 24, 2003 09:18PM)
Only out of curiosity...

How far is Slo-Mo to done?

getting anxious. I want to practice in the car on the way there!

looking forward to it
Message: Posted by: Pablo Tejero (Nov 25, 2003 04:53AM)
Thank you very much Zack for sharing with us this great idea.

THANK YOU

All the best magic,

Pablo Tejero :bikes:
Message: Posted by: niva (Nov 25, 2003 10:37AM)
Hi Logan. Thanks a lot for your comments.

Well I hope one minor point of my method is clear. When the "card" is put into the spec's pocket, at that point it's only signed by him on the back. Then the magician signs it on the face after it is brought out and before the effect in the middle is performed. And you are right Logan, you can't do an Ambitious card in the middle, but you can do amd Invisible Palm routine, which I think makes perfect sense. First you are exposing the palming technique, and then the Invisible palming technique. (yeah!? :hrmph: ) There is even more sense to the why you are exposing the palming technique.

So, let's recap. After the card is brought out from the pocket, the magi signs it as well and gives it to the spec as a souvenir. He then goes into an Invisible Palm Aces routine and at the end he finishes with the spec's card and while in invisible form it is handed to the spectator to place into his pocket. I think this last part would be great, that is when the spec puts it in his pocket and immediately feels the card materialize in his pocket and all the routine is around the "exposure" of techniques used by magicians/cheaters. Jay Sankey has ways to do the tent vanish or the rub away vanish face up. That way it doesn't matter if the card is signed on the back, because after the vanish the top card would be a normal card. It would be more convincing.

So, Logan, it looks like you will have some guinea pigs coming to your house to test this on. :rotf:
Message: Posted by: Geoff Weber (Nov 27, 2003 01:11PM)
I just performed this last night and even though I made a mistake, it still worked beautifully. What I did was had them sign the card.. then I did a few ambitious card moves, and a side steal, and pulled it from my pocket. Then I offered to teach them how I did that trick, and went into the SCISP routine. However I must have done something wrong, or else she followed my instructions incorrectly, because when she came out with the card, she had her real card, and the duplicate was still in her pocket! I decided I would press on with the trick anyway.

I then told them, that I would show them the more advanced palming technique, the invisible palm.. and I proceeded to do Aaron Fisher's bicycle thief routine. Then I offered to teach her to that as well. So I put her card on top.. This actually worked out well, because I could display the card openly, as opposed to only flashing the face. I proceeded to "invisible palm it" (really I just did a basic color change. and handed her the invisible card, and told her to place it in her pocket. When she felt the really card.. I got the pay off I was hoping for! She was so freaked out, she didn't bother to look closely at the card! I was just thanking my lucky stars for that. when she handed it back to me I switched it so I could show it around freely.
Message: Posted by: niva (Nov 27, 2003 02:54PM)
Great work Geoff!!
Message: Posted by: placebo (Nov 28, 2003 06:03AM)
Hey Zach, how's Slo-Mo coming along?
Message: Posted by: Zach Allen (Nov 29, 2003 12:21PM)
Hey everyone,
Sorry I haven't posted in a while. I got back late last night from a trip to Las Vegas, and due to jet lag I'm still feeling a bit off. I had a great time out there,though - met up with Bob Kohler and Allan Ackerman (the guy is a GOD with cards) and it was a lot of fun.

Anyway, once I recover from all this jet lag (on top of that, I've had a cold all week as well) I'll finish putting Slo-Mo together, and it should be out within a few days, unless this cold takes a turn for the worse.

Glad to hear that everyone is still have fun and mainly sucess with SCISP.

Zach
Message: Posted by: tropicalpenguin (Nov 30, 2003 01:27PM)
Cool. Hope you feel better soon. Hope everyone here had a happy Thanksgiving and thanks again for this really great offer.
Message: Posted by: Dbzkid999 (Dec 1, 2003 09:48PM)
Thanks a lot for sharing your magic with us ;)
Message: Posted by: Zach Allen (Dec 1, 2003 10:56PM)
Slo-Mo has been released. Check the separate topic for details.

Zach
Message: Posted by: Diavo (Jan 18, 2004 03:35PM)
I was thinking about what to do between load & revealation and had this idea:
Why not run with the palming demo? This plays like the original SCISP (no extra signatures or anything) Before you start have an extra random card in your R pocket. After they load the card, take the dupe back and do Francis Carlyle's Homing Card routine: lost in the deck (ctrl to top), snap, "Did you see me palm it in just then?" then openly pull card out of pocket -- glance, say something akin to "Yeah, your card," then put it back in the pocket -- people want the proof, so on that offbeat (when you get a chuckle) you actually palm the card in and pull it out & show it (covering most of the sig).

Then you say, "You didn't see this card fly out of the deck into the pocket when I snapped?" and demonstrate just that, when the card is briefly in your pocket out of sight, switch it for extra card which you bring out (show back only) and put in the middle of the deck. "Try to catch me now..." shuffle then snap: "It's done!" Very slowly & openly pull the card out of your pocket & show it (again covering most of the sig). Put it in the deck, shuffle, snap again: "But it didn't go to *my* pocket this time..." The spec checks his/her pocket and voila!

This idea gives a reason to expose palming, but does explaining it first kill your ability to palm the card in, or is the built-in offbeat enough? (I've done much in the past on that one offbeat...) You only actually have to palm once.

I will try this at my first opportunity.

--Diavo :dance:
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 18, 2004 10:23PM)
Zach:

SCISP is way cool, devious and sneaky. What else can you ask for in a trick?
Message: Posted by: totalpackage56 (Jan 21, 2004 11:01PM)
Zach:

Great idea, I definetly love it. Following in the ways of Logan I have come up with another convincer which may be overkill but I feel greatly increases the spectators thinking that the duplicate is their card. While this mainly still follows the instructions per SCISP there are some minor changes. First off, start with Zachs new combo idea, where the "real" card should have your sig. on back already and soon the spec, second from the top. However, this card should be OPPOSITE color then the deck (i.e. red if you are using a blue deck). The card above this, the top card of the deck, can be any card and does NOT have to be the dupe unless you want to flash the face. Additionally, take a card from a different colored deck, sign the back, and place this on the bottom of your deck. Proceed as per SCISP, having the spec. load the real card into their pocket while they take out the non needed card. Take this card back, sign it, and switch it for the red one, causing a color change. There are numerous ways to do this and I would type up a few now if not for two finals tommorow. I then proceed into an Ambitious Card routine or whatever suits your preference. Now proceed as per SCISP but now the spectator will have his signed, the magician signed, RED backed card in his pocket, despite the blue deck!
Message: Posted by: highmagic (Feb 19, 2004 09:46AM)
Excellent marketing Zach!
Message: Posted by: Cameron Roat (Feb 21, 2004 09:56PM)
Hi Zach,

I just found a routine very similar to yours. It is Friedhoffer's "Card in Spectator's Pocket." The routine appeared in Steven Schneiderman's RUMINATIONS, Vol. 1, No. 3, Sep. 1986.

Friedhoffer's effect is the alternate routine you describe last in your manuscript. It is a combination of the "no risk" method, and the method you describe that uses no signed duplicate:

You place an indifferent card and the signed selection into the spectator's breast pocket, then remove the indifferent card and decide to lose it into the deck. The selection is later found in the spectator's pocket. This article also mentions that it could be used for the Ambitious Card routine.

I just thought you'd like to know. Your exact routine, as far as I know, belongs to you.

You can PM me or email me if you'd like some more information about the article.

Cameron
roatc@comcast.net
Message: Posted by: Diavo (Apr 18, 2004 09:27PM)
Hey Zach,
Another idea based on Logan's *first* idea:

Use a red deck to start, force the card and have it signed. Do a trick/routine using that card, then in the end as Logan suggested you sign the back apparently as a souvenir. Hand that card to the spec and when they take it put your deck back in its box and in your pocket. Tell them you'd like to show them about Vegas cheating but want a contrasting deck to really show it off...blahblahblah. Pull out a blue deck which is loaded with the duplicate red-backed presigned-on-both-sides card on bottom. Put the original red card on top of this blue deck (having just gotten it back from the spec), then start by showing them how you can cut to any card:

Cut the deck once holding a pinky break above the original bottom card (the extra red card). Show the deck from the front and left side, riffle the front to show "no breaks" (haha). Then just cut the deck at the break -- the 2 red cards go to the top. Wow. ;P
Now you can proceed with SCISP, and after the card is loaded perhaps do the Card To The Pocket I mentioned earlier, or something that looks like palming but doesn't actually use it (Invisible Palming Aces was suggested).

Slight annoyance with this version is that you'll need TWO of the same red-backed cards.

--Diavo :dance: