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Topic: Cyclical Stack
Message: Posted by: Jonathan100 (Mar 4, 2013 07:51AM)
Hi all,

When dealing with cyclical stacks you can cut the cards as many times as you want but you can't shuffle. With that being said many times it's recommended to use a Charlie shuffle which actually only cuts the cards. I was thinking why not use the Hindu shuffle which also seems to only cut the cards? Or an overhand shuffle as long as you don't peel off individual cards but in clamps. This means you can use the Hindu and the overhand shuffle instead of false shuffling and still retain the cyclical stack.

What are your thoughts?

Yours,

Jonathan
Message: Posted by: leechiswell (Mar 4, 2013 08:41AM)
A regular overhand shuffle (even in "clumps") will not retain the cyclical order. Neither will a hindu shuffle. Only a single straight cut will do so, and in essence an overhand or hindu is a multiple cut. Try it and see.

You can do an overhand shuffle in which you undercut a few, throw on top, undercut a few, throw on top. This sort-of approximates a shuffle but will only actually cut the deck each time. This wouldn't be as convincing as a charlier shuffle though (in my opinion). But perhaps you could comine the two?

The best method though, would be to perform a full deck false shuffle and/or cut. There are lots in print, Card College explains several for example. The optical shuffle is pretty easy and quite convincing when done well, and might be a good choice in this instance. If working at a table, a push-through would be my preference.
Message: Posted by: Mary Mowder (Mar 4, 2013 01:12PM)
Jonathan100,

The "Up The Ladder" shuffle looks sort of like a Hindu. I think it's Lennart Green's

Could you be thinking of that rather than the Hindu.

It will retain full deck order.

-Mary Mowder
Message: Posted by: Ruairidh (Mar 5, 2013 10:10AM)
DId you try this out before typing it out and posting it?
Message: Posted by: Stanyon (Mar 5, 2013 10:24AM)
If you're competent with Push/Pull Thru Shuffles or can execute Zarrow Shuffles (Derek Dingles "Three Shuffle Zarrow Sequence" is killer)I would say shuffle away.

FWIW
Message: Posted by: b0sl0q7 (Mar 5, 2013 12:42PM)
There is no way that a Hindu or Overhand shuffle (done normally) will maintain a cyclical stack. Not sure why you would think that. I would suggest one quick/casual false shuffle in the off beat. Don't make it important, just do it. When the trick is over they will remember that you shuffled, not how well. If you can't handle tough ones like the Push thru there are tons of simple false shuffles out there. Hope this helps!!
Message: Posted by: Jonathan100 (Mar 5, 2013 01:13PM)
If a table is available I prefer a Zarrow.
I guess the more correct statement would be that an overhand or Hindu will retain partially the stack and I have done so. But in order to retain a perfect cyclical stack then I agree with the second post you need a complete cut not running cuts.
Message: Posted by: Steven Youell (Mar 5, 2013 01:30PM)
Go[url=http://www.stevebeam.com/video.htm] here [/url]and look at the Underhand Shuffle.

Hope that helps...
Message: Posted by: WilburrUK (Mar 5, 2013 04:37PM)
[quote]
On 2013-03-04 14:12, Mary Mowder wrote:
Jonathan100,

The "Up The Ladder" shuffle looks sort of like a Hindu. I think it's Lennart Green's

Could you be thinking of that rather than the Hindu.

It will retain full deck order.

-Mary Mowder
[/quote]

I think you're referring to the Circulation Shuffle Mary. Lennart Green's false Hindu.
Message: Posted by: Dennis Loomis (Mar 6, 2013 01:54AM)
For a full deck false riffle shuffle I like the Heinstein Shuffle. Unlike the Zarrow, it is done in the hands and you can use it when you don't have a table available. The Zarrow can be incredible deceptive when done well, of course. Gary Plants does it incredibly well and has also written an excellent book on it.

Dennis "Denny" Loomis
Message: Posted by: Waterloophai (Mar 6, 2013 02:54AM)
[quote]
On 2013-03-06 02:54, Dennis Loomis wrote:
For a full deck false riffle shuffle I like the Heinstein Shuffle. Unlike the Zarrow, it is done in the hands and you can use it when you don't have a table available. [/quote]
Standing: Heinstein (or Trifle or...) + 2 or three (false) cuts in the hand
Sitting: Zarrow + 2 or three (false) cuts on the table
In my opinion they ALL must have one feature in common: without flourishes and as normal as possible.
Message: Posted by: hcs (Mar 6, 2013 08:55AM)
For "shuffle dyslexics" I describe in my book "Si Stebbins Pro" on page 37 the Hans False Shuffle which has some similarities with the Hindu shuffle:
"The following false shuffle keeps the whole deck in order while showing the faces and backs of the cards. The author developed this false shuffle in the early eighties. It is performed while pattering to the audience and the impression left is that the deck has been thoroughly mixed.
The handling has some similarities with the Hindu shuffle. The method is simple and requires no dexterity."
Message: Posted by: Steven Keyl (Mar 6, 2013 09:58AM)
There are many very nice false overhand shuffle variants. Youell's link to Steve Beam's Underhand Shuffle is a good one. There's also the G.W Hunter Shuffle (which can be found in Tarbell, Royal Road, Card College, etc.), the Optical Shuffle, the Overhand Cut Shuffle (I'm partial to this one), the Greek Shuffle, to name but a few. All of which give the appearance of a full overhand shuffle but do nothing more than cut the cards.

If you're going to get into stacked deck work it would behoove you to learn one or two false overhand shuffles and both in-the-hands and tabled false riffle shuffles, variations of which are cited above.

EDIT:

[url=http://archive.denisbehr.de/show.php?search=false+shuffle]Here's a link with a host of options[/url]
Message: Posted by: sdmmagician (Mar 6, 2013 03:27PM)
Another option for totally false overhand shuffle is The Fishman Shuffle published in Patrick Redford's book Square, discussed here:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=357754&forum=218
Message: Posted by: Stanyon (Mar 14, 2013 04:01PM)
Look up the "Rezvani Shuffle" for a false overhand.

FWIW
Message: Posted by: Alan Munro (Mar 18, 2013 09:06AM)
Use the G.W. Hunter from Tarbell. It's a fairly easy shuffle, that's deceptive.