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Topic: B'Wave Presentation
Message: Posted by: 10cardsdown (Nov 20, 2003 06:05PM)
Any unique presentational ideas for B'Wave? Look forward to hearing everyone's different approaches to present this effect. Thanks! :wavey:
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Nov 20, 2003 06:42PM)
I believe we've covered this so do a search. I remember putting in my presentations which leaves the spectator with the impression that he could have thought of any card.
Greg
Message: Posted by: leefoley3 (Nov 20, 2003 07:04PM)
One name: David Eldridge. You can look up his work at http://www.magicshop.com :bwink:
Message: Posted by: Mark Martinez (Nov 20, 2003 07:05PM)
You can check here:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=14630&forum=2

:online:
Message: Posted by: 10cardsdown (Nov 20, 2003 07:59PM)
I appreciate the links, but none of them list anything about presentation. I'm mostly interested in the framing ideas of the presentation. I'll do another search, but have yet to find this. Thanks for your help! :wavey:
Message: Posted by: Doug Conn (Nov 21, 2003 07:54AM)
Jon Racherbaumer has a superb "synergystic" routine that uses the 3 sets of court cards (the routine has 3 predictions and it concludes with B-wave ) Jon's routine is called 'Fried Thrice' and I highly reccomend it.

it's available as a stand alone manuscript (search the web for "Fried Thrice")

or...

in one of his manuscripts (I believe it's published in "Psy-Clones")

Sidenote: Jon's website (www.jonracherbaumer.com) is a SUPER value (you'll find the above manuscript as a 'freebie' once you join.)
Message: Posted by: digitaltrip (Nov 21, 2003 08:11AM)
Thanks for the feedback, guys! I've been wondering about the same thing as far as the different presentations I can use for B'Wave.

digitaltrip
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Nov 21, 2003 12:03PM)
When I first saw it done, Maven himself, it fried me big time... what he presented, and how he presented it and marketed it is good enough for me.
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Nov 21, 2003 09:34PM)
[quote]
On 2003-11-20 20:04, leefoley3 wrote:
One name: David Eldridge. You can look up his work at http://www.magicshop.com :bwink:
[/quote]
Thanx, Lee. Here is my presentation for B'Wave. Don't worry. In order to do the trick, or know how it works, you will still have to buy it.

“In my hands are four cards. They are the four Queens. Now, I have turned one of the Queens face-up as sort of a prediction. I’m not going to show her to you yet. Before I show her to you, you and I are going to travel back in time to the time just before we met, the time in which I set these cards into their current position.

Now, pretend that you are a fly on the wall watching my every move. You can see me removing the queens from the deck (pantomime this action. This will be of value in the future), and holding them in my hands. Next, you can see me removing two of the queens from the packet, and placing them onto the table in front of me. Now, I either removed the black Queens or the red Queens. Which did I remove? The choice is yours. The Black Queens, the Clubs and Spades? Are you sure that is you choice? Fine, so I removed the black Queens from the packet leaving the red Queens, the Hearts and Diamonds in my hand, correct? All right, so I took one of those red Queens, and held it up. Do not say anything out loud, but can you see whether it is the Hearts or Diamonds, yes, or no? Did I turn this face-up or did I leave it face down? Again, the choice is yours. Face-up? Are you sure? All right, so I turned this card face-up and placed it back onto the card in my hand. Then, I placed the two cards from the table back into the packet. So, which of the red Queens did you see me turn face-up, the Queen of Hearts or the Queen of Diamonds? Again, the choice is yours. The Queen of Diamonds, are you sure? Good, because the Queen of Diamonds is in fact the face-up Queen.”

At this point the cards are spread to show that the Queen of Diamonds is in fact the face up Queen.

“Now, you may be thinking that I got that result through some kind of luck, or coincidence. Luck had nothing to do with it, and the proof of that is the fact that the Queen of Diamonds was taken from a different deck!”

At this point the Queen is removed from the packet, turned face down, and replaced into the packet.

“Of course, you may also be thinking that I somehow, maybe through the use of some kind of magician’s sleight of hand, I turned the Queen of Diamonds face-up after you selected her identity. I did no such thing, and the proof of that lies in the fact that the Queen of Diamonds… is the only Queen in the pack!”

At this point the entire packet is turned over to show the Queen of Diamonds is the only card amongst three blank-faced cards.

That is my handling for B’wave. This is a wonderful trick and fries lay audiences as well as magicians. There are several problems with the performance and patter aspect of the effect as it is marketed, however. Please, do not miss understand me. I have the highest respect for Phil Goldstein, and his work. The routine as it is packaged is workable and does work. All I have done is expounded on Phil’s method by adding more presentation and changing the Equivoque to suit my style.

Plus the fact that magicians can’t seem to be able to tell the difference between B’wave and Twisted Sisters. While they are similar in the fact that the same gaffs are employed they are different not only in the overall effect, but method as well. Twisted Sisters uses a ploy wherein one spectator has a totally free choice and the other is forced to think of a queen of the opposite color. B’wave, on the other hand, uses Equivoque to narrow the choice down to one particular color. Twisted Sisters is a great magic trick. B’wave is a mental trick. They are very different.

Bring out the packet of cards and hold them squared in the left hand. Do not perform an Elmsley Count. This is a common mistake, because Twister Sisters use one at the beginning. Remember, you tell the audience that you turned one of the cards face up before you presented them, so to do an Elmsley Count to show 4 face down cards does not make any sense. Resist the temptation to make this a magic trick. Besides, if you show 4 face down cards, the rest of the patter and presentation does not make any sense.

Tell the spectators about the trip through time. Telling them to imagine you removing the Queens from a deck is a nice way of getting out of that, “Why do you keep those ‘special’ cards in that wallet?” problem, which really is not a problem for lay people. It is only a problem for magicians. If a magician sees another performer remove a few cards from a plastic wallet, he or she sees a magician removing gaffed cards. If, however, lay people see a magician removing a few cards from a plastic wallet, a few cards are all that they see. Lay people, generally, have not heard of “trick cards”. They have heard only of “trick decks”! I have never been asked if I am using trick cards after doing a packet trick. I have, however, been asked that annoying question after doing a series of cards tricks with a regular deck such as, The Ambitious Card and Triumph.

In the marketed patter, it is suggested that if the spectator selects the non-force color, you are to say something to the effect of, “All right, then I will remove the black cards and throw them away.” As in our Lobster analogy, this is extremely bad form. Here is where the word Remove can be used to our advantage. The basic rule is to never use the word Remove after the spectator has made a choice. Only use it before a selection is made. This way the word can be used as sort of a two-way swinging door. After a choice has been made you can place a different meaning onto the word if need be. Notice that I said that “I removed two of the queens and placed them onto the table in front of me.” All that implies is that I separated the black queens from the red queens (so far). Now, I ask the spectator, “Which did I remove the Black queens, or the red queens. The choice is yours”. Two things happen here. One, the answer to the question will determine the definition of the word Remove. Second (and possibly the more valuable for the spectator’s future recollection of events), the spectator is informed that the choice is theirs. The face up queen in the packet is red, so if they say that I removed the black queens, I then say, “The black queens, the Clubs and Spades. Are you sure?” By asking the spectator if they are sure implies that they could change their minds. If they say they are sure, then you repeat their apparent choice by saying, “Okay, so I removed the black queens.” Then I draw all attention to the “red queens” remaining in my hand.

If, on the other hand, they answer that I removed the red queens, then I draw all of the attention to the red cards that I removed from the packet, and placed on the table in front of me. The spectators will assume that I removed the red queens in order to use them. Do not mention the black queens again. When a spectator decides on the red queens, do not remind them of the black queens. Also, it is very important to name the suits!!! It is amazing to me that even magicians don’t think about the fact that each of the colors contain two different suits. There is nothing worse than to get to the pay-off of B’wave only to ask the spectator which card you turned face-up just to hear them say, “Uh… the red one.” I even had one inebriated soul answer, “Duh…all of them?” Anyway, I digress.

Notice that I remind the spectator that the “choice is theirs” about 3 times through out the trick. This is a very important thing of which to remind them. It makes them feel more in control of the situation. This is something used by Max Maven.

Now, pretend to pick up one of the red queens either from the packet in your hand, or off of the table depending on the choice of the spectator. Have him visualize which queen it is. Now is a good time to mention the red suits, hearts and diamonds. Ask him if this was the card you turned face-up or if you left it face down. Again, say, “The choice is yours” even though it really does not matter. Either way you get one of the red queens face-up.

The rest of the routine is just presentation. Just follow the rest of the script, and they will be talking about you for the rest of their lives. :devilish:
Message: Posted by: Magicmike1949 (Nov 22, 2003 02:11AM)
Dpe666's presentation is very well thought out and I'm going to adopt it immediately. Better than Max's! Thanks for sharing. What a great place the Café is. :pepper:
Message: Posted by: erictan8888 (Nov 22, 2003 02:25AM)
Hi Dpe666,

thanks for sharing on your presentation...
I like your version very much...

thanks
eric :)
Message: Posted by: 10cardsdown (Nov 22, 2003 06:34AM)
Now that's what I'm talking about. dpe666, that is absolutely terrific, and exactly what I was looking for when I started this thread. Thanks so much for the painstaking effort you used to contribute such a wonderful post. Greatly appreciated! Hope others will continue the trend you started in this thread. :wavey:
Message: Posted by: Markus Pocus (Nov 22, 2003 09:22AM)
Didn't Terry Herbert make B'Wave ten years before Max Maven sold his? This is what I heard.

:coffee:
Message: Posted by: leefoley3 (Nov 22, 2003 12:15PM)
Thanks for sharing your presentation David!
:applause: I told you guys!! :approve:
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Nov 22, 2003 12:40PM)
I've looked in the archives, but couldn't find what I wrote up so here goes:
You approach a spectator and put the packet of cards down and somewhere near them. You say, "Do you mind if we try an experiment of the imagination?" Usually they say Yes. "Good. Now remember is just our imagination so it can't go wrong. (I point to the pile of cards.) Can you imagine that's a full pack of cards? (they say or nod Yes) Good! Great!. Now imagine I reach into that full pack of cards and pull out some cards... but I turn them over and I see I've pulled out all the queens... can you imagine that? (I mime all my actions and finally hold up an imaginery fan of four cards.) Now imagine I take two of the queens and place them back into the full pack of cards... and they're the same color. Did I put back the black queens or the red? (I mime these actions and no matter what they say I say) Great! We're right in sync. Okay, so now we have the red queens in the pack. (Whatever they say I make the statement that fits... if he put back the black queens then it's "Well, now I have the red queens in my hand) Okay, I want you to imagine that I turned over one of the queens....Did I turnover the queen of hearts or Diamonds. Great! Diamonds. We're definitely in sync. Okay, so we started with a full pack of cards then imagine just four them then down to two the one card and only one card. The queen of diamonds. I knew you would think of one card andonly one card the queen of diamonds... look. (I spread the cards to show the diamonds face up.) But I knew you would think of one card and only one... the queen of diamonds so to proveit I pulled it from another pack ( I turn over the card to show the different back) But I was so sure that you would think of one care and one card only...The queen of Diamonds... I was so sure that I put no other cards on the table. ( I turn over the other cards to show blanks.
Here are the fine points: Never do an Elmsley with this effect. It's a mental effect not a magic effect. In my presentation never mention numbers of cards. I only say the word Two when we are supposedly down to the color of queens. Even when I reveal the blanks I say no other cards, not and these three are blank. Keep mentioning that you startedwith a full deck of cards and went down to one card. I have had several people walk away talking about how they could have said any card.
Greg
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Nov 22, 2003 02:16PM)
Mine is better. *wink* :devilish:
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Nov 22, 2003 02:29PM)
A devil on the left
An Angel on the right.
There's no mistake
Who I'll be with tonight. :firedevil: :cuteangel:

I don't think it will be the angel.

Oh dpe666, I forgot to wink.
Message: Posted by: MichaelSibbernsen (Nov 23, 2003 02:40AM)
Following the excellent presentations and advice by David and Greg, I decided to share my simple (yet potentially powerful) addition to B'Wave. A number of workers in the know have been using this for years.

At the onset of the effect, ask your participant; "what is [i]your[/i] favorite type of court card... you know [i]face[/i] card?". Using this wording, notably when asking a female, odds are they will say "Queens". If they do, you go from there.

Further more, there is an excellent chance they may up and name a single card; "Queen of Hearts" (and less likely QD). If they do, you have an instant miracle. If they name one of the other queens, you follow up with "just the value... so Queens."

Lastly, if they do not give you the proper court card, you follow up with "[i]mine[/i] are the Queens" and go on with the effect as usual. A dirty out, but well worth it for the potential hit.

Note that the 1 in 3 limiting force (when it hits) will most likely be forgotten in the long run, replaced by the false memory of you just asking them to name "any" card.

MS
Message: Posted by: Dave Le Fevre (Nov 28, 2003 08:54AM)
Wow, some [i]great[/i] ideas in this thread. I particularly like David Eldridge's approach, and Michael Sibbernsen's too.

But I must disagree on one general point. B'wave is a mental effect, Twisted Sisters is a magic effect. Yes, according to its creator, its instructions, and several posters in this thread, B'wave is a mental effect.

But it doesn't have to be.

I don't for one moment suggest that presenting B'wave as a magic effect (by using an Elmsley Count first) is better. It's a different effect. And it's one that you [i]may[/i] prefer. Or you [i]may[/i] prefer the mental effect.

With an Elmsley Count,
1 A card magically turns over
2 It's their card, which you couldn't have known
3 The back magically changes its design and colour
4 The other cards are blank

Without an Elmsley Count,
1 It's their card, which you couldn't have known
2 The back has a different design and colour
3 The other cards are blank

One could argue that with an Elmsley Count then it technically isn't B'wave. True. But that doesn't make it a better or worse effect, nor does it make it wrong.

You have the hardware, you can present it how you wish. I used to present it as a mental effect, nowadays I present it as a magic effect. (But having read the ideas of David Eldridge and Michael Sibbernsen, I may now sometimes present it as a mental effect.)

Just my tuppence worth.

Dave

PS - Gotta agree with the endorsement of Fried Thrice. Lovely effect, at the right time.
Message: Posted by: david_a_whitehead (Nov 28, 2003 09:12AM)
Twisted sisters can defnitely be presented as a mental effect as well. it is basically the same principle as b'wave.
Message: Posted by: Lord Of The Horses (Nov 28, 2003 09:54AM)
[quote]
On 2003-11-21 13:03, Pete Biro wrote:
When I first saw it done, Maven himself, it fried me big time... what he presented, and how he presented it and marketed it is good enough for me.
[/quote]
I agree. The tree structure that Maven provides in his marketed version is very logical and has no apparent flaws.

The other ones I like are the one by Michael and the one by Greg because they both add an element to the whole thing.
Message: Posted by: SharkTrager (Nov 28, 2003 01:37PM)
B'Wave is undoubtedly a great effect whether magic or mental but I do have one problem with it.

Ultimately you will end up with either Queen of Hearts or Diamonds. Most people already know that one of the most popular cards is the Queen of Hearts so when you end the effect with this card it can appear to the spec that perhaps the whole thing was just a lucky guess - based on the fact that you just chose the most popular card. I would like to see this effect sold not as Queens but as Twos or Nines. That, in my mind would make it a truly fantastic effect.

What do you guys think?
Message: Posted by: david_a_whitehead (Nov 28, 2003 01:39PM)
You could do it with the black queens from the twisted sisters set
Message: Posted by: Bong780 (Nov 28, 2003 04:08PM)
Do a similar mental presentation with the twisted sister (with 2 spectators of course), there's no way they'll accuse you on the lucky guess.
Message: Posted by: Dave Le Fevre (Nov 28, 2003 04:34PM)
[quote]
On 2003-11-28 14:42, SharkTrager wrote:
Ultimately you will end up with either Queen of Hearts or Diamonds. Most people already know that one of the most popular cards is the Queen of Hearts so when you end the effect with this card it can appear to the spec that perhaps the whole thing was just a lucky guess - based on the fact that you just chose the most popular card. [/quote]

That's why
A - I sometimes use a Twisted Brothers set to perform B'wave
and
B - I started doing the magic effect version instead of the mentalism version.

If the card magically turns over, you never get the [i]"Lucky guess"[/i] comment.

And before you ask, the Twisted Brothers set was available from Fournier, but I gather that it's no longer available.

Dave
Message: Posted by: Vilago (Nov 28, 2003 04:35PM)
If you can, grab a copy of Genii from Jan 2000...it's got a great write-up of Just Alan's routine. Very simple and elegant.
Message: Posted by: Eight Spades (Aug 12, 2004 09:59AM)
Dpe666,
I really like your presentation. Mine is very similar in the fact that I ask which two queens I remove from the pack of four. Something I added that seems to help is if the say I remove the two force queens, I say

"That's a little strange. I don't know what it is about those queens, I just don't like them as much, so I almost always remove them. It's almost as if you sensed that..."

It sort of plays on the ambiguity of their decision, and some people really react to this (if they're the open-minded type). It also gives a solid reason for removing those cards. My main annoyance with equivoque has always been when someone says "name one...ok so that leaves this..."

It's a red flag for double talk. Or at least it seems that way to me.

Great thoughts everyone, way to disect an amazing effect!

-Christian
Message: Posted by: RiffClown (Aug 12, 2004 10:33AM)
[quote]
On 2003-11-28 17:34, Dave Le Fevre wrote:

That's why
A - I sometimes use a Twisted Brothers set to perform B'wave
and
B - I started doing the magic effect version instead of the mentalism version.

If the card magically turns over, you never get the [i]"Lucky guess"[/i] comment.

And before you ask, the Twisted Brothers set was available from Fournier, but I gather that it's no longer available.

Dave
[/quote]
The twisted brothers is available in the [url=http://www.vikingmagic.com/cgi-bin/dc.pl?keywords=fako&html=full&key=575&options=]Fako [/url]deck along with twisted sisters, and a slight variation of Skinner's Ultimate 3 card Monte.

I personally use the effect as packaged. I will, in a strolling environment, swap a black set in to totally baffle those that might have seen it from a different table earlier.
Message: Posted by: Dave Le Fevre (Aug 19, 2004 06:25AM)
[quote]
On 2004-08-12 11:33, Rob Eubank wrote:
[quote]
On 2003-11-28 17:34, Dave Le Fevre wrote:
And before you ask, the Twisted Brothers set was available from Fournier, but I gather that it's no longer available.[/quote]

The twisted brothers is available in the [url=http://www.vikingmagic.com/cgi-bin/dc.pl?keywords=fako&html=full&key=575&options=]Fako [/url]deck along with twisted sisters, and a slight variation of Skinner's Ultimate 3 card Monte.[/quote]

Thanks Rob!

Dave
Message: Posted by: Kjellstrom (Aug 19, 2004 07:20AM)
Use a himber wallet and put two sets of B´wave cards (red and black) in each pocket in the wallet and you have outs for any card named. that's my approach.
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Dec 14, 2004 07:53PM)
Such great ideas. Thanks everyone.
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (Dec 15, 2004 11:11AM)
Nice suggestions in this string, and I especially like the suggestion of the Himber Wallet, which allows you to produce any Queen you want in front of any audience, even one that just saw you do the trick...That's the way I present it too.

Anyway, here's my 2cents on a little something different in the ending... :)

-As you show the back of the Queen to be different and it's returned to the fanned pack, once you turn over the fan pack to show that the Queen is the only card you had there with the 3 blanks...I like to, as the fan is turned back down, take the top card in my right hand to show it blank again and throw it down on the table, then the bottom card, then the next top card, and lastly the Queen (which your 2 fingers grab by the lower left end to cover the gaff...Snap it with the other hand to show the absolute last of only 4 cards used and throw it face down on the pack on the table. It's a nice way to end this great trick. :) -Marion

Setting the record straight...

Straight from the horses mouth; "B'wave" is a contraction of the word "Brainwave." Likewise B'wave is a contraction of the effect as in the Brainwave Deck. In other words, a packet trick version of the Brainwave Deck.

*I would also tend to think that Twisted Sisters is a take off of, a twist if you will off, of B'wave. Sorta wondering how Max Maven didn't think of this as an enhanced version of his great trick before Bannon figured it out...Hey, but even Max can't think of everything... :)

Anyway, just so you know... ;) -MB
Message: Posted by: Roger Kelly (Dec 18, 2004 08:55PM)
Hmmm - interesting - I can almost buy that.
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Dec 18, 2004 09:43PM)
MB is coreect. The instructions for Twisted Sisters credits Bwave as its evolutionary predecessor.

Does anyone else think that using blank face cards gets the spectator thinking in a direction that isn't helpful for the effect?

I prefer using jokers or any other combination of normal (except for court) cards.

Elliott
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Dec 18, 2004 11:36PM)
[quote]
On 2004-12-18 22:43, ElliottB wrote:

Does anyone else think that using blank face cards gets the spectator thinking in a direction that isn't helpful for the effect?

I prefer using jokers or any other combination of normal (except for court) cards.

Elliott
[/quote]

I do not like to toot my own horn. However, B'Wave is the effect that I have performed and continue to perform more often than any other effect. It is a main stay in my close-up work as well as my stage show (Giant B'Wave). I carry it everywhere I go (yes, in a little black plastic wallet), and have performed it in every possible way (as far as the 'other' 3 cards are concerned anyway). I have also gotten more praise for my presentation (which can be found on page 1 of this very thread) than I have for almost any other effect I have either constructed or given a presentation to. Therefore, I feel I can speak with some authority as to the performance aspects of B'Wave.

I prefer the blank cards as opposed to Jokers or a collection of indifferent cards. My reasons are that the image of the card they named and ONLY the card they named in the fan is much stronger, theatrically, than when there are other images cluttering up the scene. Also, with "other cards" in the "image" the spectator's brain needs to work a bit harder to see their selection.

Also, as with other effects that "expose" a specially printed (or unprinted as the case may be) card such as Anniversary Waltz, we have to remember that laymen do not think like a magician. They don't link the "gaffs" to other effects. No one upon seeing a blank card (which really is not a gaff in and of itself) or a DF card trace it back to an effect they saw previously, nor do they consider it when they see one employed in a future effect. It is a sort of reverse psychology. "A magician does not reveal a secret, so this special card must not be a secret."

Avoid the use of Himber wallets to avoid the use of Equivoque. As tempting as that may be (for magicians at least), the beauty of B'Wave is in its simplicity, and that the cards are in full view from the very start. A wallet clutters up the effect, and begs the question, "Are those the only cards you have in that wallet?" :devilish:
Message: Posted by: Dan LeFay (Dec 21, 2004 07:30AM)
David, reading your presentation some time ago has made me put the effect back in my wallet! Shanks for sharing!
Message: Posted by: JChristensen (Dec 21, 2004 08:36AM)
In the B-Wave directions, Max Maven credits several early versions. In 1978, Karl Fulves published a small pamphlet entitled "Four-Card Brainwave." The effect explored was described as follows: "The trick known as 4-card Brainwave is one where a spectator thinks of an Ace and the performer now shows that the Ace is the only reversed card in a packet containing the four aces. The performer then reveals that the thought Ace has a different color back from the other Aces."

The fifth method given is attributed to S. Leo Horowitz and employed two double- indexed cards and two red/blue double backers. In an extra effect, Brainstorm, Fulves raised the possibility of the face-down cards having different faces. Max Maven streamlined the effect with his B-Wave.
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Dec 21, 2004 08:05PM)
Interesting points David. You’re effectively buying a much bigger impact for a small risk of exposing the method. On the other hand, I used your patter on some friends last weekend and they were floored. Clearly you know what you’re talking about, so I’ll have to give those blank cards a chance.

Thanks,

Elliott
Message: Posted by: Cameron Roat (Dec 21, 2004 09:15PM)
Detroit magician Ron Aldrich has an excellent presentation for "B'Wave" that eliminates the equivocal choice. It was published in John Luka's fantastic book [i]L.I.N.T.[/i] (1997).

Cameron
Message: Posted by: Kjellstrom (Dec 22, 2004 01:53AM)
[quote]
On 2004-12-19 00:36, dpe666 wrote:
[quote]
On 2004-12-18 22:43, ElliottB wrote:

...Avoid the use of Himber wallets to avoid the use of Equivoque. As tempting as that may be (for magicians at least), the beauty of B'Wave is in its simplicity, and that the cards are in full view from the very start. A wallet clutters up the effect, and begs the question, "Are those the only cards you have in that wallet?"
[/quote]

I use a small himber wallet: The O'Connell Mini Himber from Jerry: http://www.leatherjerry.com/wallets.html
and it works like a dream every time. I have a rubber band around the himber wallet and give the wallet to the spectator before the effect. I have colored the rubber band with some dots on one side for a helping aid. When I need the cards at the end of the effect I let the spectator slide the bands off the wallet and I slowly open the correct side and slowly pull the cards out. Just think of the impact :) Because of the freely handling of the wallet it adds a very innocent look of the presentation when the spectator handles the wallet. that's my approach...

Mats
http://www.kjellstrom.info
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (Dec 22, 2004 11:15AM)
Kj, that's a nice usage. It puts the cards in the hand of the spectator, which never crossed my mind to do. It lends another convincing element to this masterful trick. David's method is great too. I've actually used it, just this morning, and blew a co-worker away...:) It's a nice way to get them comfortable enough to just let you lead them anywhere with it...:) It works very nice. I am apt to use it now more often as a mental trick. I really didn't miss using the elmsley count at all and was much more involved with the storyline and so was the spectator who was anxious to play along. David obviously has been doing this a long time as his well-thought-out ins & outs prove, so he will not give the Himber wallet the time of day, but it is good idea in the way of putting it in the hands of the spectator. In the end of David's patter he speaks about no possible manipulation of the cards, no magician's sleight of hand, etc. Well, if the cards are banded in a wallet in the hands of the spectator all along, then that would sort of say that any such manipulation was impossible, proven mostly by the spectator holding the cards themselves...No need to tell them. Hey, I also like that mention by MikeSib about getting the the spec to pick the Queens up front...could really help sell David's mentionings of "It's your choice." Greg Arce's thing is cool too. Different strokes for different folks. ;)

Lot of approaches here, good ones...Perhaps there's another presentation or even a "B'wave II - The Missing Link" :) of this wonderful effect in this stew of ideas. David, what do you think??? Your perfections of the trick are great, but perhaps a powerful re-invention is about due...Hint, hint...;)...Maven didn't have all these ideas at the ready or the internet to get them in bunches...if he did, then he probably would've been the one to come up with Twisted Sisters as a double-pack take on the idea. There might be enough here about this trick to possibly create its next evolutionary step... I mean Mickey Silver has done it in a most remarkable way with the retention vanish of coins. :)
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Dec 22, 2004 09:37PM)
David. Are all the effects from your DVD also in your book? Is there additional material in the book? Is your complete Bwave patter in both and do you know where I can find some online reviews?

Thanks,

Elliott
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Dec 23, 2004 06:47AM)
Dpe, that was by far the best and most detailed description and presentation of this effect I have ever read. Very good. Very VERY good. Thanks for sharing this!
Message: Posted by: Kjellstrom (Dec 23, 2004 12:41PM)
Check out Max Maven´s : THE INTERNATIONAL TRAVEL MYSTERY :
http://www.maxmaven.com/mystery.php
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Dec 24, 2004 05:36AM)
Anything by the Maven is great in my book.
Message: Posted by: Alchimest (Dec 26, 2004 06:07AM)
I tried using B'Wave recently in a walk around venue and got into an interesting situation. I did the effect for one lady and she picked the queen of hearts. She drags her husband over, and he picks the queen of diamonds. This blew her away, but I got to thinking. How good is B'Wave in a walk around venue? How many times can you produce the Queen of Diamonds and the Queen of Hearts before the method starts to become evident? Is it worth trying to switch off between B'Wave and Twisted Sisters" which is a little more difficult to use in a walk around venue?

Any Thoughts?
Message: Posted by: 10cardsdown (Dec 26, 2004 07:48AM)
Carry two wallets that look the same in separate pockets. When a repeat is needed, remove a different wallet so the card is different. :wavey:
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 9, 2005 10:03PM)
Or, you could probably find similar gaffed cards with clubs and spades. A
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Jan 15, 2005 02:48PM)
Thank you for all of the nice comments. The only place (other than on this thread) that my presentation for B'Wave can be found is on my Mind Control Video (coming soon to DVD, by the way). It was in the original Mind Control booklet, but when I published Maximum Mind Control, I removed it in order to leave SOMETHING exclusive to the video.

ElliotB, you wrote "You’re effectively buying a much bigger impact for a small risk of exposing the method." I was just wondering, how do I do that? Using three blank cards in no way even hints at the method.

Mb217, you and others have asked me before as to whether or not there should be a "B'Wave II". I see no reason for such a creation. To me, B'Wave is not in any need of improvment. All I did was give it a presentation which hides the Equivoque sequence a bit better. Even the one that Maven wrote in the instructions is not bad, however it does break a rule of mine when using Equivoque. Every "impromptu" or "improved" version of B'Wave I have ever seen (and I have seen countless) is always inferior to the original. The Equivoque sequence is longer and/or more transparent, the effect needs and Elmsly or Jordan Count, some other piece of apparatus is employed which leads to suspicion, part of the effect is lost i.e. you can't show their card to be the only one of it's kind or of a different back design, and many other things. A lot of guys will give the argument, "But now it is done without the gaff!" This, to me, is a lousy justification for making the effect less clean, more convoluted, and less effective overall. :devilish:
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (Jan 15, 2005 07:18PM)
Dp, now suppose the Great Magician Upstairs felt that way after his masterpiece - Man. Following this ultimate logic, I don't thing in his infinite wisdom that he thought of improving Man, but he figured out just the same on how to make Man better, how to start him out on his way to finding out his true nature...In that, he then created Woman. Not to be so spiritual here but you've figured out why B'wave shouldn't be improved upon, but for the life of me I can't think of anything that couldn't be improved upon...Since everything is a work in progress, even if we think it's all it can be already, I would think that even B'wave might not be all that it can be...Heck, even you improved upon Maven's presentation of it...Others have come up with some interesting ideas relative to it...I don't know, but I just think there are other dimensions of this great trick. Keep diggin' dude...You got a good shovel on it. :)
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Jan 15, 2005 10:21PM)
I suppose if you really need a "B'Wave II", there is always my Act Of B'Wavery. :devilish:
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (Jan 16, 2005 09:59AM)
There you go my man...:) Tell us more???
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Jan 16, 2005 04:01PM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-16 10:59, Mb217 wrote:
There you go my man...:) Tell us more???
[/quote]

It is in my Maximum Mind Control book, and will soon be commercially available. :devilish:
Message: Posted by: genemccarthy (Jan 30, 2005 04:50AM)
I feel that when blank faced cards are displayed to a spectator that the 'cards are gaffed' must enter their mind.

I use Twisted Sisters, except either the red backed or the bblue backed. In other words, one half of the two packets.
Message: Posted by: Roger Kelly (Jan 30, 2005 05:59AM)
Aren't we lucky that there are so many clever thinkers out there?!

Here's my tuppenyworth and a few tidbits of info that you may find useful:

If you have Twisted Sisters, then you have a couple of B'Waves for walk around situations. The Mini-Himber is an ideal place to keep em! (Kjellstrom) Okay, that was a bit of a no-brainer comment (mine -not Kjellstroms!) - we should all know that.

Although personally I prefer Twisted Sisters to B'Wave, after reading Dpe666's method I'm going to revisit B'Wave. (Although I can't agree with his observation that "it fries lay people as well as magicians" - I can't for a moment believe that there are magians out there who haven't heard of and tried either one or the other!

To 'update' Doug Conn's post of over a year ago regarding John Racherbaumer's "Fried Thrice." This, in JR's words, "has now morphed into 'Pumping B'Wave Two'" and is available to Premium Members on the downloadable Manuscript "Think Ace."

http://www.jonracherbaumer.com

Dave Le Fevre, also in November 2003, raised the issue of "Twisted Brothers." That is very much available in the appropriately gaffed Jacks and Kings of both suits. Neil Lester of Cards by Martin makes them. I have two sets of each in Bicycle and Tally Ho. They are superb!

http://www.cardsbymartin.com

RK
Message: Posted by: implicit (Jan 30, 2005 03:59PM)
For even more effect reseal your brainwave decks before using them. When you open up a new deck of cards it is even a bigger shock to the audience.
Message: Posted by: Roger Kelly (Jan 30, 2005 04:02PM)
Er, implicit - we're on B'Wave here, NOT Brainwave :)
Message: Posted by: Russell Davidson (Jan 28, 2013 04:21AM)
Sorry to bump this old thread but I have TS but not B'Wave. Can anyone tell me if I can perform BW with my TS cards? PM me if required. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Russell Davidson (Jan 28, 2013 08:02AM)
[quote]
On 2013-01-28 05:21, Russell Davidson wrote:
Sorry to bump this old thread but I have TS but not B'Wave. Can anyone tell me if I can perform BW with my TS cards? PM me if required. Thanks.
[/quote]

Forget that dumb question. The obvious has just hit home :)

Sure all you still doing this are already onto this idea but thought I'd share it here anyway - if you have them imagine 4 red back cards on their hand (4 blue backs are actually on yours), ask them what 4 of a kind they think they are. If done for the ladies you stand a fair chance of them saying queens. Then you have a real miracle! If not, you have the joke that their imagination isn't very good etc etc. Probably standard tactics to you mentalists out there but worth mentioning I thought.

Afterthought - You might increase the chance of a hit if you include the word 'lady' somewhere in your question as to which 4 of a kind they are.
Message: Posted by: WalterPlinge (May 27, 2013 12:49AM)
I thought "Choose Your Queen" was exactly the same as B'Wave?
http://www.magictricks.com/choose-your-queen.html

In the demo video, the spectator is given a free choice of all 4 suits! The only explanation is that the wallet is gaffed, although it doesn't look like a H****r wallet.

Regarding a similar effect: Does anyone think "Dream Queen" is stronger than B'Wave, because in the former you get a free choice of all 4 suits even though you can't show the other 3 cards as blanks?
Message: Posted by: WalterPlinge (Jun 1, 2013 08:57PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-27 01:49, WalterPlinge wrote:
I thought "Choose Your Queen" was exactly the same as B'Wave?
http://www.magictricks.com/choose-your-queen.html

In the demo video, the spectator is given a free choice of all 4 suits! The only explanation is that the wallet is gaffed, although it doesn't look like a H****r wallet.

Regarding a similar effect: Does anyone think "Dream Queen" is stronger than B'Wave, because in the former you get a free choice of all 4 suits even though you can't show the other 3 cards as blanks?
[/quote]

Anyone familiar with these B'Wave-like effects?

Thanks,

Walter
Message: Posted by: vincentmusician (Mar 14, 2021 08:30AM)
I have Dream Queen. If you use a himber wallet for B'Wave, then you can freely choose any suit of queen or card you are using. I use a plastic black card holder and carry both red and black suits on two different sides. However, the suggestion of a Himber wallet is interesting. I may give it a try. The wallet is just like keeping them in my plastic black card holder. However, the advantages are two. I can open the wallet in front of the spectators and clearly show only four cards, show the wallet front and back, and also do not need to use magicians choice. I will just allow the spectator to hold the wallet as previously suggested. I do not think the spectators will know what a Himber Wallet is and they will not see any other cards.
Message: Posted by: helder (Jun 10, 2021 12:53PM)
[quote]On Nov 22, 2003, Greg Arce wrote:
I've looked in the archives, but couldn't find what I wrote up so here goes:
You approach a spectator and put the packet of cards down and somewhere near them. You say, "Do you mind if we try an experiment of the imagination?" Usually they say Yes. "Good. Now remember is just our imagination so it can't go wrong. (I point to the pile of cards.) Can you imagine that's a full pack of cards? (they say or nod Yes) Good! Great!. Now imagine I reach into that full pack of cards and pull out some cards... but I turn them over and I see I've pulled out all the queens... can you imagine that? (I mime all my actions and finally hold up an imaginery fan of four cards.) Now imagine I take two of the queens and place them back into the full pack of cards... and they're the same color. Did I put back the black queens or the red? (I mime these actions and no matter what they say I say) Great! We're right in sync. Okay, so now we have the red queens in the pack. (Whatever they say I make the statement that fits... if he put back the black queens then it's "Well, now I have the red queens in my hand) Okay, I want you to imagine that I turned over one of the queens....Did I turnover the queen of hearts or Diamonds. Great! Diamonds. We're definitely in sync. Okay, so we started with a full pack of cards then imagine just four them then down to two the one card and only one card. The queen of diamonds. I knew you would think of one card andonly one card the queen of diamonds... look. (I spread the cards to show the diamonds face up.) But I knew you would think of one card and only one... the queen of diamonds so to proveit I pulled it from another pack ( I turn over the card to show the different back) But I was so sure that you would think of one care and one card only...The queen of Diamonds... I was so sure that I put no other cards on the table. ( I turn over the other cards to show blanks.
Here are the fine points: Never do an Elmsley with this effect. It's a mental effect not a magic effect. In my presentation never mention numbers of cards. I only say the word Two when we are supposedly down to the color of queens. Even when I reveal the blanks I say no other cards, not and these three are blank. Keep mentioning that you startedwith a full deck of cards and went down to one card. I have had several people walk away talking about how they could have said any card.
Greg [/quote]

Looks great to me this presentation.

Thanks for sharing.

Helder
Message: Posted by: KungFuMagic (Jun 10, 2021 03:44PM)
I believe it drains a fair amount of the strength of the effect .... but one could use even a packet wallet with 2 packets Black/Red suits set up. Open the wallet to produce the needed packet for the reveal. Part of the gripping power of this routine is having the cards in plain view, untouched by anyone, from the start to the reveal. Well crafted equivoke will preserve the effect and make the wallet, really, unnecessary. Himber or a nimbly handled ungaffed wallet ... whole other effect on the participant/spectators.
Message: Posted by: vinsmagic (Jun 10, 2021 05:37PM)
How about the not so famous the G wave, by the godfather
https://youtu.be/17Jj-69B76Y

vinny
Message: Posted by: helder (Jun 12, 2021 09:11AM)
How this script sounds for B'wave?


"Okay, let's try an experiment with your imagination. Imagine that I have here the 4 queens.

Now I'm going to remove 2 of these queens and leave them there on the table, which ones did I remove, the black or red queens? The choice is yours. The black queens, the queen of spades ♠️ and clubs? Are you sure? It's your choice. Good, I removed the black ones then. We are in perfect harmony.

That's, in my hand I have the ...? red ones, very good. Now I'm going to turn face up one of these red queens, in your imagination did I turn face up the queen of hearts or the queen of diamonds? Again it's up to you to decide. The queen of ♦️, are you sure? It's your choice. Okay. I knew you were the perfect person for this and you had a great imagination because the queen facing up is in fact the queen of ♦️.

Of course you may think that this was luck or just a coincidence. But luck has nothing to do with it, and the proof is that the queen of diamonds is from a different deck.

And I was so convinced that you were a person with such a good imagination that the queen of ♦️ is the only queen in the pack."

If they choose to remove reds:

"I remove the red queens, the queen of ♥️ and the queen of ♦️? Are you sure? The choice is yours. Very well. We are in perfect harmony. Of these 2 queens on the table I turn one up, which one should I turn, the queen of ♥️ or the queen of ♦️? Again, the decision is yours. The queen of ♦️. Are you sure? Perfect, I then turn the queen of diamonds face up and put them back in the deck. I knew you were the perfect person for this and you had a great imagination because the queen that is face up is in fact the queen of ♦️."
Message: Posted by: ddyment (Jun 12, 2021 10:17AM)
I never ask a participant, "Are you sure?" It makes for an awkward moment. Of course they're not sure: they're just playing along with your game.
Message: Posted by: helder (Jun 12, 2021 12:32PM)
[quote]On Jun 12, 2021, ddyment wrote:
I never ask a participant, "Are you sure?" It makes for an awkward moment. Of course they're not sure: they're just playing along with your game. [/quote]

Thanks

Helder
Message: Posted by: KungFuMagic (Jun 12, 2021 02:53PM)
[quote]On Jun 12, 2021, ddyment wrote:
I never ask a participant, "Are you sure?" It makes for an awkward moment. Of course they're not sure: they're just playing along with your game. [/quote]

I like this response. I find asking also just sounds hinky ... maybe in a specific routine, it can be used for dramatic effect. Lile right before a reveal (with sly gron).

The script has a lot going for it. It is clear and easy for the spectators and participant to follow the plot. A Magician can "ask" that question many ways and not clog up the dialog ... non-verbals can be very direct. Raised eyebrows and slight head tilt can convey the same question, though I don't see many ever changing their minds anyway. I suggest a similar thought process with repeating the word "choice" so often. Once to place it in their awareness and subconscious ... then use cues/gestures to imply the repeats. Letting their minds fill in the blacks allows them to tell themselves more of the story ... let them find their way with occasional breadcrumbs on the trail rather than pulling them every step.
Message: Posted by: KungFuMagic (Jun 12, 2021 02:54PM)
Helder, I sent you a PM with a couple other thoughts/ideas/notes. If they don't fit for your vision, feel free to discard.
Message: Posted by: KungFuMagic (Jun 12, 2021 02:58PM)
So. PM doesn't have a fi9le upload option. I'll try here.
Message: Posted by: ddyment (Jun 12, 2021 03:45PM)
KungFuMagic posted:[quote][quote]On Jun 12, 2021, ddyment wrote:
I never ask a participant, "Are you sure?" It makes for an awkward moment. Of course they're not sure: they're just playing along with your game.[/quote]
I like this response. I find asking also just sounds hinky ... maybe in a specific routine, it can be used for dramatic effect. Lile right before a reveal (with sly gron).[/quote]
I understand the desire to make a moment more dramatic. I am still strongly disinclined to do so by asking "Are you sure?" (again, because you're asking a question to which you clearly know the answer: no, they're not sure).

I would heighten the drama PRIOR to asking them to make the choice. "Now, Mary, I'm going to ask you to make a decision that will forever alter the course of your life. I'm going to ask you to [whatever, say choose between Hearts and Diamonds]. I don't want you you to make the choice frivolously, without thought. Consider it seriously, because once you have chosen, you cannot change your mind. And tonight, when you're trying to fall asleep, you'll be thinking, 'What if I had chosen the other one?' And you'll never know. So right now, Mary, which will you choose, Hearts or Diamonds?"

This is just an off-the-cuff example, of course, and the wording might not fit your persona. But I hope I've made my point.
Message: Posted by: helder (Jun 12, 2021 07:52PM)
[quote]On Jun 12, 2021, KungFuMagic wrote:
So. PM doesn't have a fi9le upload option. I'll try here. [/quote]

WOW, thanks a lot, that was amazing.

Did the changes as you and Doug Dyment suggested.

Thanks to both

Helder

PS: KungFuMagic check pm