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Topic: Accidently 'Tying The Knot' in Fast And Loose
Message: Posted by: Robmonster (May 7, 2013 02:47PM)
Hi there,

I'm wondering what to do if the spectator accidently 'ties the knot' in the fast and loose game? I've been watching Whit Haydn and Chef Antons great DVD on this, and Whit shows a procedure whereby you can tie the spectators finger in what would really be the loose side by pulling the chain in a certain way.

While practicing I have accidently done this to myself a few times.

What is best to do if the spectator manages to tie the knot on themselves and try to claim it as a 'win'?

Message: Posted by: jakeg (May 7, 2013 05:26PM)
What's the big deal? If te spectator wins, it proves that the game can be beaten, serves to heighten the tension in the game, and makes the spectators try all the harder to repeat the win as their pockets empty.
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (May 7, 2013 09:37PM)
Same with any entertainment style confidence game.....the key is to understand the procedure 'thoroughly'....so well....that you are prepared for any happening. You...the operator...should be in total control. ;)

Caveat: I agree with jakeg. Although this type proof...IMHO...should be used sparingly.

Happy trails.
Message: Posted by: Robmonster (May 8, 2013 04:27AM)
Hi all,

Thanks for the replies.

I'm not talking about intentionally using this ploy to prove that a loose side will actually hold fast. I'm talking about a spectator accidently tying the knot on themselves when you give them the choice to pull the chain away themselves.

If I'm performing a routine whereby the spectator is always supposed to get the loose side it is somewhat of a problem if they actually manage to tie the knot on themselves.

Message: Posted by: NicholasD (May 20, 2013 11:33PM)
I believe Whit Hayden addresses this in the School For Scoundrels Fast and Loose book.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (May 28, 2013 01:57PM)
The answer is simply "That's a knot, not a loop" then you proceed to educate them again on what a proper loop looks like.
Message: Posted by: mrunge (May 28, 2013 02:14PM)
Yep. Take Dave's advice!!

Message: Posted by: 0pus (May 31, 2013 03:42PM)
It may preclude you from using Whit's ending though. [At least I think it may.]
Message: Posted by: purpleflag (Aug 16, 2013 08:39PM)
The best way is not to tell them that they can pull from anywhere but instead pull a small piece away from the loop saying
"no matter where you place your finger I always pull from the same place"
If you say & prove this early enough, I find that by the time it gets to the end they won't notice if you change it to use the alternative pull. :)
Message: Posted by: Pop Haydn (Aug 16, 2013 09:08PM)
I accuse them of trying to 'cheat' me by tying a knot. If you can pull the chain away from the finger, it isn't 'fast.'

Simply say, "Freeze! Don't move your finger!" and then I slowly and with a look of significant disapproval, I pull the chain away. "You weren't in the right loop! You just tried to cheat me by tying a knot!"

I explain the concept of "In the loop" again, and continue. It should kill the ending, but it doesn't I've found. Just "clean up" after tying the knot at the end pretty quickly. They expect to lose, and don't really complain at that point. It is the end, after all.
Message: Posted by: Robmonster (Aug 17, 2013 03:24AM)
Thanks Whit!
Message: Posted by: John C (Aug 24, 2013 08:38AM)
That's a sharp whit!
Message: Posted by: Dr_J_Ayala (Oct 23, 2013 04:04PM)
Just a thought: In conjunction with the advice from Pop, you can also use the chain knot and "remove the knot" from the loop. I have done this a few times and it really screwed with the minds of the players. From there you can either have another go, move on to the next phase or simply end it at that point.

Normally I just accuse them of trying to cheat me as suggested. Over time you will find those wiseacres that put their fingers in one of the two openings of the Hourglass layout that are neither fast nor loose (the openings inside the long sides of the 'hourglass' after it is thrown). It is easy to deal with that because you simply re-state the rules, etc. You deal with those folks that accidentally "tie the knot" or "try to cheat you" in the same manner - state that you do not appreciate cheaters, re-state the rules, etc.