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Topic: Oblivion
Message: Posted by: Magic.Maddy (Jun 2, 2013 09:12PM)
Hey guys, just got an email about this. Sounds similar to an old Derren Brown routine. Anyone know anything about it? sounds very intriguing.


Here's the description:

"Ever wanted to read minds of others in a hassle-free way? There have been hundreds of excellent methods in existence for extracting thoughts from people's minds. Mentalists have been "nailing" the thoughts of others, "tearing" into others' brains, having a "peek" into peoples' minds for a long time now. Imagine what it would be like if there's no need to resort to such methods. Imagine what it would be like if you are looking for the information just where you need to look? Here's something revolutionary for you.

Imagine requesting a spectator to take part in a demonstration on Thought Projection. You ask her to think of anything under the sun, anything she wishes to think. It's your turn now to extract the thought from her mind. Who's the only person on this planet who knows exactly what the spectator is thinking? It's the spectator herself. What would it be like if the spectator herself reveals her thought to you? This is exactly what's written above. I repeat, your spectator herself tells you what she thought; still you take all the credits for reading her mind.

And above all, she won't remember that she herself ever told you what she was thinking...

This is Oblivion.

The Effect, from a Spectator's perspective:
Phase I
The performer asks the spectator to play the role of the mind reader. The Performer thinks of a word, which may be anything, a name, a place, a thing, a number, virtually anything. The spectator tries to catch the brainwaves from the performer, but misses by a whisker.

Phase II
Now reversing the roles, the performer asks the spectator to think of a word, a number, anything she chooses to think of. The Spectator intensely tries to send her thought to the performer. The performer catches whatever he got from the spectator but still misses it by a hair. Things were never so real, and so human…"
Message: Posted by: Unknown7777 (Jun 2, 2013 09:17PM)
I got the review copy of Avik's previous release (at least I think it's the same Avik) and it was very good and well thought out. Curious to see what this is like.
Message: Posted by: Magic.Maddy (Jun 2, 2013 09:18PM)
On 2013-06-02 22:17, Unknown7777 wrote:
I got the review copy of Avik's previous release (at least I think it's the same Avik) and it was very good and well thought out. Curious to see what this is like.

Just ordered based on that. Thanks. About to read. I will post my thoughts.
Message: Posted by: Magic.Maddy (Jun 2, 2013 10:02PM)
Just finished reading. This is a weird one, no doubt. I will try to discuss it as best as I can.

*Note that this opinion is my first impression upon reading. I haven't performed it yet.*

The PDF: The PDF is 7 pages long and simple to understand and written very clearly. There are 2 diagrams to help understand the core concept. It's very concise and to the point.


The Effect: let me explain how the routine ACTUALLY appears to your spectator/audience. You teach you spectator how to read minds. They then attempt to read your mind but are barely wrong. You then have them think of a name, location, number, or object. In essence, they can think of anything. No limitation. You then read their mind and to prove it, you send them your thought again.


Where would this work: This would work in any condition. It just uses two minds so it could be performed anywhere.


Props: There are absolutely no props needed.


Memorization: There is hardly any memory work that needs to be done. You COULD memorize the script provided but it really isn't necessary once you know the basic mechanics.


Mechanic Difficulty: On a scale of 1-10, 1 being the easiest and 10 being the hardest I would rate this a 2/10.


Presentation Difficulty: On the same scale as before I would rate this an 8/10.


Over all rating: 4/10


First Thoughts: I first want to say that this does not use Duel Reality, One Ahead, Pre-show, or instant stooging (Methods which are surfacing a lot lately.)I should mention that the ad copy is correct in saying that you miss it by a hair. In total, there are 3 misses in the routine and 0 hits. Basically, you perform this knowing you are going to be wrong every single time. There is a very very very small chance that you might nail their thought but this is a very slight chance and the PDF doesn't even mention this chance. It's written to inform you how to be wrong. You will be wrong, but you will be close. They mention the too perfect theory but I don't think you look too perfect when you fail 3 times. That said, your spectator has all the power in this routine. If they decide to make you look like an idiot (It may happen unintentionally) then they very easily can. To me, this just isn't thought out very well. I don't think it will work for all audiences. I am a teenager myself and I usually perform for teenagers and adults. If I tried this on my usual group, they would laugh in my face! None of them would be fooled and they would see through the method immediately. Maybe it's just because this group has seen me perform many times, but if I'm attempting to read their mind, they expect me to get it right. Not be close. I definitely wouldn't use as a closer or anything like that. I may use it as an opener: not because it's that strong, but because that is the only place in my routine where it would make sense to fail "I always do a mental exercise before I get into the real mind reading. Mind to help me out?"

I want to use this time to explain the two different difficulty ratings. The first is because the routine is super simple to understand and perform. The second is because in order to pull this off effectively, you will need a lot of confidence and a lot of guts because this is extremely bold.


There is my review. If you have any questions, I will try my best to answer.

P.S. I will be trying this out to see if it works better than I think. Depending on how things work out in the real world, I may change the over all rating and post a review after I judge reactions.
Message: Posted by: Unknown7777 (Jun 2, 2013 10:14PM)
Strange his previous release was somewhat bold but you would still hit. I'll have to see this for myself
Message: Posted by: avik_d (Jun 3, 2013 01:33AM)
Hi Friends,

Firstly Brad, It's the same 'me' who wrote Confession a few weeks ago. Thank you all for the response towards Oblivion as well. Let me clarify a few things which I believe are needed:

1) Oblivion is not an effect dealing with Mind Reading. It's about Thought Projection. Once you go through the script, you will get to know the exact difference between the two, and why I'm naming it this way instead of Mind Reading.

2) You will fail (in the conventional sense) 99% of the times you try Oblivion. Yes, that's the truth. But it's this failure that's the success mantra for this routine. You need to go through the script for yourself to understand this better. But I myself can assure you, Oblivion has fetched me far better reactions than when I hit the spectator's thoughts spot-on.

3) To summarise, Oblivion is an effect where the spectator herself tells you her thought of information, though unknowingly; the ad copy is correct in this regard. But though simple in construction, carrying out this routine should take a lot of presentational skills. In fact I myself failed (literally) the first time I performed this.

@ Maddy, thanks for your review and opinion regarding Oblivion. But I should repeat that this routine demands a lot to present properly, and I don't think this can be performed at a club party or somewhere like that.

If the methodical ease and the presentational difficulty is considered, I can humbly say that Oblivion can very well sit alongside with "Telepathy In Action" by Orville Meyer. TIA is a gem by itself, which very few people will attempt to perform. Similarly if you perform Oblivion without proper presentation and patter, audience can very well see through the effect.

If anyone wishes to know more, I will be more than happy to help.


- Avik

P.S. Oblivion is available from both ementalism as well as lybrary.com




Message: Posted by: Magic.Maddy (Jun 3, 2013 10:19AM)
Like I said, I am definitely going to try it out. I'm aware that its going to take complete confidence. I'm just scared its going to create confusion more than anything
Message: Posted by: avik_d (Jun 3, 2013 11:02AM)
You can't be scared and confident at the same time. I would say just go for it :)
Message: Posted by: Unknown7777 (Jun 3, 2013 03:08PM)
I have got a review copy for this (Avik is quite generous) however I would have paid for it had I not. I will take a second to remark on Magic.Maddy's thoughts as well as give you my own.

Obviously you will be missing during this effect but it is very ok and if you've been studying the right material you'll know why misses are sometimes good. Also YOU don't miss three times, YOU only miss once. Two of the misses are the spectator's and don't reflect on you (just don't make the specs feel bad). The other miss is yours but it is the kind of miss that will still get an amazing reaction and is a miss I will intentionally do anyway.

Also the spectator can always make you look like a fool in any effect, intentionally or not, but with the right scripting you can ensure they will not. That goes for almost any effect.

They effect itself is very well thought out and good and I have one personal addition to it that will make it one of my go-to methods for mind reading. (I kinda changed the thought projection patter to suit me)

Also to solve the problem of when in your set to perform this the booklet suggests closer, Maddy suggested to open with it. Yet this is theatrically strongest in the middle of three effects or if performing more than that I'd say this should be second or third.

Here is why. This effect needs you to be credible and you need to have established your "powers" otherwise the spectator will see through it unless they already belive without any proof. And to close with it although it does (as the ebook says) bring you to their level, I feel this is not the way I would close. I'm willing to bet most of you will agree that you want to end with a bang.

So put this in the middle because you've already established yourself and a miss in the middle is very theatrically powerful. It makes what your doing look real and also (although it is memorable on its own) will make your future hits more powerful.

That being said I have no problem doing this by itself or with a short opener before it in a casual setting. It is good but don't overlook it's simplicity.

I hope I was able to clarify things a little better or at least help. Anyway those are just my thoughts whether you agree or not.

Message: Posted by: avik_d (Jun 4, 2013 01:31AM)
Thanks Brad for the nice words. You got something that I missed to mention in my previous post. Oblivion is structurally so simple that it may seem like a no-fooler. Yes, it's certainly not a piece to perform for magicians. It's strictly for lay people. But when presented properly it can kill. It's routine that portrays the performer not as an all-knowing divine entity, but as a mere mortal with some unknown power in his possession which can go wrong sometimes, but not before it shows what it "can" do.

Wish the performers all the best with this.

Message: Posted by: Unknown7777 (Jun 5, 2013 07:34AM)
After talking with Avik about this over email I genuinely believe that this could be one of the most believable mentalism demonstrations you can do, if you play your cards right. I honestly feel that this is not for magicians though, as missing does not look good on a magician. However for mentalists this is gold:)
Message: Posted by: Mind illusionist (Jun 5, 2013 11:25AM)
I got this yesterday and wanted to post my initial thoughts:

- First of all, if you are looking for the holy grail or a method to think of anything, and Il read your mind type effect, this is probably not what you want to buy. and You will be disappointed If you do (IMO)

- that being said this is quite a neat little idea being presented here that seasoned performers can have some fun playing with. I actually would prefer to use the first phase of the routine presented in the ebook.
This is the classic premise of spectator as mind reader, but I think this plays stronger than you doing the mind reading with this type of method.

-As mentioned above before, I would not use this for an opener or closer, as this routine needs you to have the spectators confident in your belief as a mind reader.

-I personally feel that this routine would work best in impromptu close up situation. Done with not drawing too much attention to the greatness or imposibility of the effect.

- The strenght of oblivion, is in as the name suggests itself. and performed well to the right non skeptical audience, this is something that may linger in their minds for a long time.

- Do I think this is a brilliant amazing concept that can help start your own religion. no. Do I think you can amaze everyone with it, including skeptics no. But is this ebook worth $10? (the question most want answered! ;)

my answer is, if you are looking for an amazing, flawless routine for mind reading than no. but if you are looking for a neat little concept to add to your arsenal that has the potential to do some damage (psychological damage that is heh) than yes, I do think it is worth the $10.

hope the honest review helped,
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Jun 5, 2013 12:22PM)
Nice honest reviews by both Magic Maddy and Jordan. Clearly they don't love the effect but others do.

I'd like to salute Avik for coming onto the thread and responding with grace and understanding to a pretty poor review. That shows true class Sir!
Message: Posted by: avik_d (Jun 6, 2013 02:56AM)
Thanks for the honest opinion Jordan. Constructive Criticism is what every creator seeks for. It's evident that one can only create effects that will either be suited to the performance style of very few people, and will do the maximum damage to the audience, or effects that's suited to any and every performer and won't take much effort to present. This second category goes for self-working or gaffed effects, which Oblivion is far away from. I understand that each member in the Café has got his/her own style or performing, and it would be too much to expect that a single performer can adapt to all the styles under the stars. I can only hope that the very few people who will try to perform this routine with all the enthusiasm and seriousness may get the fullest out of it.

If someone says that some XYZ effect is very good and very versatile, he or she is speaking only from his/her perspective. Same goes for a negative review too. But as a creator, both are welcome to me, and both will help me to become better in presenting my ideas in a more acceptable way in future.

Thanks Martin for the nice words, ignoring any sarcasm (if at all present) in your post :)

Thanks again, and I will be waiting for more honest reviews to come.


Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Jun 6, 2013 03:47AM)
There was no sarcasm in my post whatsoever, Avik. I wish other creators and friends of creators followed your example.
Message: Posted by: avik_d (Jun 6, 2013 04:57AM)
Thanks Martin, though it should be me who should be learning from guys over here. I have been performing for long, but I'm relatively new to writing down my ideas. It's great that I have got so much to learn from this great forum.


Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Jun 6, 2013 05:12AM)
You are a breath of fresh air my friend.

Message: Posted by: Mind illusionist (Jun 6, 2013 11:02AM)
Your welcome Avik, hope I didn't sound too harsh!

As I said, I did think it was a neat idea, and I may post again after a real world performance of it.

All the best with your future releases and material for publishing!

Message: Posted by: avik_d (Jun 6, 2013 11:40PM)
Thanks Jordan. Looking forward to offering you people more good stuff.

- Avik