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Topic: I remeber a time!
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Aug 6, 2013 04:58AM)
I remeber a time it seems a long time ago when buskers seem to be a big family.
Today it seems to have changed, what happened?

The noble busking coumunity was based on the back of real men and women.
If you had somthing to say you say it to their face and misunderstanding got sorted.

I glad to see remenents of old School around, by that I mean busking couminty born on the street.
I just returned from a busking Festavle in Germany for the third time, hear I have made real freainds hear.
You know we respect each other, encourege each other and this reflects well in our show and our audeance love us for it.

Then I come on to a forums and what do I see?
Street performers being conpared to other SP,
Over the past few years I have seen on hear, Artist trying to better them selfs by putting down my fellow Artist. What thay don't realise is they are crapping all over a noble busking coumunity.

The sad and perthecitc thing it is said crypticaly so they got an out if it back fires. Like a smoking gun effect. Then it left manufast it self into a the real world. Cowardly back stabing other performers rather speaking directly to them is bad form of character.

I have been busking since the late 80 early 90 I am now 45 years old.
Busking is the only thing I know OK I use to make earings for a living before that and now I perform a comedy show and stuff.
Ponit is Busking was my door way into Show Buiness, I love it with a passion.

Then BOOM the birth of the World Wide Web I have know idear of this strange new World other than I can see a bigger busking comunity their.
Can this be a sour grape or what, I was really hurt some years ago.
No one dared to speak directly to my face instead back stabbing cyber cryptic stuff was said, loaded to hurt and dammage. Guess what it did it realy did. It went on for years and it crippled me. I began to lose my conferdance, can you beleave this. I am known for being a hardened, tough faced street performer. I remember one knight I just criead like a baby.

I began to lose my passion and my will to perform and then it went on and on.
Man for the first time I wanted out, out, out, OUT. As for me what else am I going to do. I don't have any qualifications or trade that I could go back to NOTHING, busking was it. So I picked my self up and limped alone ocasionaly taking another blow hear and their.
The madest thing I did not give up encoureging and teaching others the Noble Art of street performing instead greater demands for my work and thing seem to grow.

My point is simple perhaps long winnded but simple, I have wittnesed the same treatment done to others. Pepeole picked on for what they wear or for their show and 9 times out of 10 you aint seen their show they just abuse their reputation of another busker or performer.

This can really hurt and its bull. Pepole who do this are not building up any comunity and are not Noble. Its time for it to stop, it must stop no longer will I stand and watch the noble busking coumunity been destroyed like this, go back to your day jobs.

The only way now forward, together not any one person or busker. My post is not trying to relive the past but looking ahead to a brave new World the old world has now passed away. So let stop trying to build our reputations at the expence of any other busker or performer.

Young and Aspiring buskers, you can help build a new noble busking coumunity. By standing up and been counted, if you come across any back stabbing, first of don't BE SCARED OF THEM, you will reconise it because it has a nasty face. Just don't stand for it any more, They can not be a good mentores for if they don't reconise the dammage they are causing.

In recent years I have had some great freainds and mentores in my life who have helped me rediscover my conferdance, My faith is restored, I have redisvoved my passion, I love my work and my fellow perofmers. I offer my hand of frieand ship to all. Together we can build a noble busking comunity.
We are the Old People, we are the young People, we are the same People much stonger than before.

Mario
Message: Posted by: tabarin (Aug 6, 2013 10:21AM)
Great post Mario!
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Aug 8, 2013 09:35AM)
I think the negative people are always there. They're just easier to avoid and ignore in a face to face setting.
Message: Posted by: mike bonfield (Aug 8, 2013 10:22AM)
Nice post mario..keep going enjoy busking enjoy life
Message: Posted by: Eric Evans (Aug 8, 2013 08:28PM)
Look, I'm meaning to be provacative for info sake, not meanness.

How long have you been busking Mario?

A few years ago you wrote that you were a pitchman for quite awhile and only later in life became a street performer; a busker. And no, as a general rule, pitchmen and performers don't run in the same circles. At least as far as my experience has shown

While I may not travel as much as you do, I haven't noticed any difference in my friends. We're still the same ol' jerks we've always been.

Rubs me the wrong way suggesting otherwise.
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Aug 9, 2013 04:22AM)
Thanks all for your response!

Eric, it is not my intention to rub you the wrong way.
My refrance of bad play is on forums I thought I made that clear, sorry. For example I felt Jimmy Talksalot and my self was a target on forums for some time which. I know first hand it can realy hurt. In futer I like to think I will speak up if I see a perfomer being put down in any way.

I agree, in the real world of street performing the streets, not mutch has changed, We're still the same ol' jerks we've always been.


As explained in my Street Performing manual, pitching was and at times and still is a sidline to me busking.
I was a fly pitcher in my teens but that a whole diffrent beast (Basicly a street trader who runs of when the police turn up - fly pitcher) I use to sell jewellry as a fly pitcher!

As for busking my first show was early 90s! Pitching came latter and only out of season to keep the coin coming in.
.
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Aug 9, 2013 11:55AM)
My hope is that we now look forward and together every one build a safer enviroment for us to talk about busking.
I am not intrested in discuing what happend in the past on hear or in prvt,
"that is my last words on the past"
What has past has past what is important is that we move on to better things.
Message: Posted by: Eric Evans (Aug 9, 2013 09:25PM)
This virtual world of busking is just that. I've seen many "performers" arise and claim things here that I know to be false, mere fabrications that others take as fact.

The busking community is, has, and will most likely always be the same.

It's best not to confuse the two, as the virtual street, and the real street, bear little resemblance to one another.

No harm, no foul.
Message: Posted by: tabarin (Aug 9, 2013 09:55PM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-09 22:25, Eric Evans wrote:
This virtual world of busking is just that. I've seen many "performers" arise and claim things here that I know to be false, mere fabrications that others take as fact.

The busking community is, has, and will most likely always be the same.

It's best not to confuse the two, as the virtual street, and the real street, bear little resemblance to one another.

No harm, no foul.
[/quote]

isn't this just throwing more negativity Eric? why not name names or really why not stop talking negatively. throwing vauge and cryptic acusations at nobody in particular is exactly what I thought mario was talking about in the first place. It's not cool, useful, or helpful. You may not relize it but you do this quite a bit.
Message: Posted by: Eric Evans (Aug 9, 2013 11:06PM)
Ok. So I do it quite a bit.

Quite a lot of what is stated here is rubbish. Is that wrong to point it out?

If so, why?

In general, is it a negative thing to say that some things aren't true?

Sorry if you find me cryptic. I thought I stated my opinion very clearly.
Message: Posted by: Eric Evans (Aug 9, 2013 11:23PM)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the gist of Mario's original posting was how online attacks are ruining the "Noble art of busking". How the web ruined or is ruining street performing? Or, the "community".

All I'm saying is I don't think the two have much impact on one another.

If you choose to "cryptically" slam me, Tabarin, without providing proof, then you're not any better than you accused me of doing.
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Aug 10, 2013 01:24AM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-09 22:25, Eric Evans wrote:
This virtual world of busking is just that. I've seen many "performers" arise and claim things here that I know to be false, mere fabrications that others take as fact.

The busking community is, has, and will most likely always be the same.

It's best not to confuse the two, as the virtual street, and the real street, bear little resemblance to one another.

No harm, no foul.
[/quote]

Thanks for helping me to refine my point.
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Aug 10, 2013 01:34AM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-09 22:55, tabarin wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-08-09 22:25, Eric Evans wrote:
This virtual world of busking is just that. I've seen many "performers" arise and claim things here that I know to be false, mere fabrications that others take as fact.

The busking community is, has, and will most likely always be the same.

It's best not to confuse the two, as the virtual street, and the real street, bear little resemblance to one another.

No harm, no foul.
[/quote]

isn't this just throwing more negativity Eric? why not name names or really why not stop talking negatively. throwing vauge and cryptic acusations at nobody in particular is exactly what I thought mario was talking about in the first place. It's not cool, useful, or helpful. You may not relize it but you do this quite a bit.
[/quote]

Mr Tabman, I don't read that from Eric post rather I read him helping us making a distinction between virtual world, and real street.

Speaking of virtual worlds you joined the magic Café 13 days ago and have 13 post. Yet you post like you have been around a very long time. Do I know you in the real world all are you an old timer with a new account. eric I have meet in the flesh with respect but who are you? By that I mean do you have a website or somthing by witch we can ID you with? Again It is virtual crytic characters on furoms that often have the most to say, yet their is no real person behind the charcater to be ID. It is just this I think Eric may have been making a part refrance to, Virtual Characters. Can you please ID your self so I know you not one of them.
Message: Posted by: tabarin (Aug 10, 2013 07:19AM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-10 00:23, Eric Evans wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the gist of Mario's original posting was how online attacks are ruining the "Noble art of busking". How the web ruined or is ruining street performing? Or, the "community".

All I'm saying is I don't think the two have much impact on one another.

If you choose to "cryptically" slam me, Tabarin, without providing proof, then you're not any better than you accused me of doing.
[/quote]

I was not cryptically anything I spoke to you directly. I was not attacking you, and your post is proof of my comment. why so negative? I think post like yours are what makes many people so uncomfortable that's all.

to answer your question this is what mario said
[quote]Street performers being conpared to other SP,
Over the past few years I have seen on hear, Artist trying to better them selfs by putting down my fellow Artist. What thay don't realise is they are crapping all over a noble busking coumunity.

The sad and perthecitc thing it is said crypticaly so they got an out if it back fires. Like a smoking gun effect. Then it left manufast it self into a the real world. Cowardly back stabing other performers rather speaking directly to them is bad form of character. [/quote]

and then eric you said this
[quote] I've seen many "performers" arise and claim things here that I know to be false, mere fabrications that others take as fact. [/quote]
that is pretty criptic eric and to use your own words eric is this not slamming someone without proof?

your post is all the proof anyone who can read might need so your comments saying I am cryptically trying to slam you just seem kind of weird. your first post where you said okay I do it quite a bit was a lot more honest. and sure I reckon if you know something to not be true then when it is happening call it out but just making vauge negative remarks that have nothing to do with nothing just makes more negativity. your first response to my post made a lot more sense. look I am not trying to start a ruckus here I'm just pointing out you may be doing it and not even realize you are doing it. I was not attacking you just pointing out. you are right eric you do it quite a bit all I am saying is why not speak directly to the person you have the problem with or why not keep it to yourself. all of the cryptic stuff could be taken the wrong way by people you are not intending it for which I also think was a point mario was trying to make. I remember a while ago when you called someone on this same type of thing eric I am not saying you are the only one doing it, or even the just your pals whoever they might be. this is a probrlem with a lot of people on this site it seems you are not imune to it. if I wasn't trying to be so careful I might be doing it right now because everyone knows those people blow a cold brese up my nickers and those other guys are ruing street theater and don't even get me started on them other fellers who are all mouth and no trousers. its awful they are ruing the internet and the street the buggers.

I hope you have a good day eric and don't let them the other guys or you know who I'm talking about get you down. peace.
Message: Posted by: tabarin (Aug 10, 2013 07:32AM)
[quote]

Mr Tabman, I don't read that from Eric post rather I read him helping us making a distinction between virtual world, and real street.

Speaking of virtual worlds you joined the magic Café 13 days ago and have 13 post. Yet you post like you have been around a very long time. Do I know you in the real world all are you an old timer with a new account. eric I have meet in the flesh with respect but who are you? By that I mean do you have a website or somthing by witch we can ID you with? Again It is virtual crytic characters on furoms that often have the most to say, yet their is no real person behind the charcater to be ID. It is just this I think Eric may have been making a part refrance to, Virtual Characters. Can you please ID your self so I know you not one of them.
[/quote]

mario I'm glad you didn't read that from erics post you must know who them and the other blokes are I don't

oh here we go so I am not worthy of being here unless I am an old timer that both you and eric know. well I'm not saying so hard cheese there. several people who post to this section are anonomous some of them I see you and eric conversing with quite often. I'm a street performer and if you read the posts ive made here that do not hae anything to do with this junk you'll see I know what I am talking about. that should be good enough. id rather have people on the internet judge me for my posts than for any reputation I mighty have on the street. on the street my show speaks for itself on good days and the bad ones. I have seen a lot of people come here and make a name for themselves and then use it to start hammering on people that disagree with them you know those guys and those other guys and the ones who do all of that bad stuff everyone is always talking about. so instead of proving myself I will just leave unless somebody needs to comment on me again. at this point id rather just leave and let you have your place back. I was kind of hoping to talk about actual street performing and not how that guy is betetr than the other guy and watch out for the corproate drones and the money guys and lets not forget all of the clones of those other guys and I think you see my point. I wish you very well in cardiff and around the world mario. I'm going over there with those other guys to palk about the ones who do that thing.
Message: Posted by: tabarin (Aug 10, 2013 07:41AM)
Oh and I have been around for a long time. I was a member on other sites but not this one. this one you can read without being logged in ive been reading this site I reckon since it first came on line same with pnet which was around before this was. peace.
Message: Posted by: Eric Evans (Aug 10, 2013 11:16AM)
Anyone can come on this site and say anything. Much of the time what's said is either regurgitated stuff they've read elsewhere. Again, I don't see anything wrong with pointing that out. Most times I give those posts a wide berth. When I see someone making good points I'll often point that out, wanting to emphasize the positive and avoid flame wars. I've been involved in quite a few tussels here where I directly confronted people that ended with that person either being banned for some time or they left of their own accord, I know not which but the result is the same.

As to the coherence of my first reply as opposed to the follow up last night. I had a bit of a buzz going from some strong beer and am surprised my follow up made as much sense as it did.

Nom due plumes are the vehicle most often used by people who want to throw mud without being held accountable. That's probably why Mario was asking about who you were. No need for you to get your knickers in a wad.
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Aug 10, 2013 12:31PM)
Is it the Caped Crusader, Spiderman, Zorro or Capt America sorry I can not take someone seriously that hides their ID.
I can respect and take seriously some one who speaks up and put their name behind it. Like Eric Evans, Jimmy Talksalot, Kozmo, Bobby Maverick.
To name just a few. Have not met them all in the flesh but we know their real. My hope is together that we can build towards a better tomorrow.

As for Caped Crusaders, personally I think the Magic Café would do well to remove them. Or perhaps give them a chance to stand up and be counted if not remove them.
Message: Posted by: tabarin (Aug 10, 2013 02:31PM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-10 12:16, Eric Evans wrote:
Anyone can come on this site and say anything. Much of the time what's said is either regurgitated stuff they've read elsewhere. Again, I don't see anything wrong with pointing that out. Most times I give those posts a wide berth. When I see someone making good points I'll often point that out, wanting to emphasize the positive and avoid flame wars. I've been involved in quite a few tussels here where I directly confronted people that ended with that person either being banned for some time or they left of their own accord, I know not which but the result is the same.
[/quote]

at least you admit to harassing people to the point of driving them off that's cool at least you admit it. I don't thionk anyone has ever been banned for arguing with you though eric that seems a bit of an egotistic presumption and no teh result is not the same to everyone but maybe to you because you got what you wanted. to others like me its another street performer driven from this site due to negativity and harassment. at least you admit to doing it.

[quote]
As to the coherence of my first reply as opposed to the follow up last night. I had a bit of a buzz going from some strong beer and am surprised my follow up made as much sense as it did.[/quote]

glad it made sense to you and you enjoyed it.


[quote]
Nom due plumes are the vehicle most often used by people who want to throw mud without being held accountable. That's probably why Mario was asking about who you were. [/quote]
do you have any proof of this or is this just something else you are making up. as I said before there are several people in this very part of the site who are posting under nom due plumes as you like to call them and you do not seem to have a problem with the sycophantic ones who agree with everything you say because you are the great eric evans. heck even mario backed right off when he realized he got you a bit bloused up. why do you get tense over this eric? you admit it goes on you admit you take part in it and you think this place is better because you do that. I think the place would be nicer if we talked about street performing. that's all we disagree shouldnt be a big deal. I doubt any amout of hammering you give me is going to change my opinion and while I do not agree with your opinion I respect it and I respect the fact that you admit to it. I'm not taking this personaly just trying to have a differing opinion.
[quote]
No need for you to get your knickers in a wad.
[/quote]
where are my nickers in a wad eric? I am just having a conversation. some guy who is a nobody who just wanted to talk about street performing with other people who street perform. all this negativity and driving people off bnecause they have a different opinion than you seems kind of elitist and lame in my opinion. the reason you say most of teh posts are the same regurgitations might very well be because the people who had different ideas were driven off maybe even by you. I'm not trying to stir you up and I am not even saying anything you have not already admited to. I don't understand why you are getting your nickers in a twist over it. most people would have just said you might have a point. you admit to something and then come back at me personally for no reason. ad hominim and strawmen attacks eric my nom du plume has nothing to do with the point of the conversation. it seems to me you are just trying to drive it in another direction. you seem to do this when anybody has a point and a smoke screen would be handy. this time lets just stick to the topic. I havent said anything insulting to you or gotten angry I just merely have a different opinion than you. you seem to get angry and act out at anyone who disagrees with you eric you even admit to driving them from the site. I personally think that's kind of lame. you can disagree with my assesment of it being kind of lame but lets face it you already admitted you do it and I am ok with that at least you admit it. I just remember when there was room at the table for everyone and not just the people you approved of. I thought the place was better then. I have no problem with you personaly I hope you stop trying to make this personal as it is not about you and me. it is just two differing opinions if you think it is okay to harass the people you do not aprove of until they leave this site more power to you that is your choice good for you for standing by your opinion. I just disagree that's all I liked some of the posters you drove off I also like some of your posts when you are not being all defensive and negative. so why don't we agree to disagree and just move on. id really like to get away from this thread before your pals start joining in. peace.
Message: Posted by: tabarin (Aug 10, 2013 02:39PM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-10 13:31, Mario Morris wrote:
Is it the Caped Crusader, Spiderman, Zorro or Capt America sorry I can not take someone seriously that hides their ID.
I can respect and take seriously some one who speaks up and put their name behind it. Like Eric Evans, Jimmy Talksalot, Kozmo, Bobby Maverick.
To name just a few. Have not met them all in the flesh but we know their real. My hope is together that we can build towards a better tomorrow.

As for Caped Crusaders, personally I think the Magic Café would do well to remove them. Or perhaps give them a chance to stand up and be counted if not remove them.
[/quote]

mario you also respect others who post under names that are not their own iam not even close to the only one on this site posting under a street name. I think you are great and I thought your original post was fantastic. lets not make this personal with all of the name calling. you are one of teh good guys mario it is a rare thing when you have anything negative to say. eric is a big boy you should let him take care of this one himself he is doing just fine. id like to let the whole thing go and just agree to disagree with eric. lets not make this about me mario lets stay on topic I agreed with your original post mario. I agreed with you strongly I thought your original post was heartfelt and made a lot of sense. now it seems you are doing the very thing you were talking against. its weird. all the best to you mario. don't go back on what you said mario just because eric evans chimed in. peace.
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Aug 10, 2013 08:56PM)
It can never be personal if you hide your id. You are the first virtual character I recognised that is chosen to hide his id.
I will now look out for them who hide their ID and I will no longer take them seriously.
To me that is really weird.

All I am requesting is you to ID your self so I know who I am talking to.

Who are you?
Message: Posted by: Eric Evans (Aug 10, 2013 09:32PM)
Wow, nice marathon posts tabarin.

I never said I drove anyone from this place. The actual events coincided. Although I might have a propensity to provoke, I do so in order to seek truth. If someone gets upset and starts making personal attacks, that shows more about themselves than anything I might say about them.

As to differing opinions here, I welcome them if they are informed. If they're based upon armchair theory and passed off as gospel, they have no place in this corner of the Café especially.

We deal with the street here. The toughest, realest venue in and about the world. A place where you can get chewed up and spit out in o e afternoons outing. I have no interest in seeing that happen to anyone, but especially to impressionable young magicians.
Message: Posted by: Eric Evans (Aug 10, 2013 09:48PM)
One last note, because as tabarin has noted, this thread has been hijacked and I am sorry for the role I played in it.

Relax tabarin, this isn't life and death. No need to take it all so seriously and defensive.

Mario asks a pertinent question. We street performers have a pretty thick skin and when provoked tend to keep our defences short and, if possible, witty.

No need to strike out when no real harm was intended. You might have learned that on the street. Or here. They CAN be the same; virtual and real.
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Aug 11, 2013 07:50AM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr0FLbg7CRI
Message: Posted by: tabarin (Aug 11, 2013 06:07PM)
Wow, sorry for the delay I've been out working. Eric I don't understand your last posts as I have not tried to strike out at anyone this is the strangest fantasy you have eric it makes no sense.

soe lets get some facts straight and ill be leaving and then marios youtube link will make more sense. I agreed with marios original post where he said wouldnt it be nice if we all treated each other better here. I am personally in favor of treating anyone who actually works the street with respect. I have gone out of my way to try and stick to that point but the straw men you keep throwing up eric are really weird. now its about you protectiung the young street magicians from people who think others should be treated respectfully?

I wish you and mario the best of luck in all you do. I'm still being respectful I'm still not striking out at anyone I'm just saying wouldnt it be nice if people treated each other better here. peace.
Message: Posted by: fireperformer911 (Aug 11, 2013 11:09PM)
To me as a new fulltimer it would be helpful if people on this forum would be identified as fultime lbusker . if they eat was based on their street show not on balloons or restaurants or partimers so people could judge there comments accordly
Everyone deserve respect but everyone doesn't deserve to be listen too.
Message: Posted by: fireperformer911 (Aug 11, 2013 11:10PM)
Sorry for all typo my phone
Message: Posted by: Eric Evans (Aug 12, 2013 12:46AM)
Tabarin, if you want to get your facts straight, you might start with your own presumptions regarding my position.

From the very beginning of my involvement in this thread, you are the only person who has had a problem with what I contributed to it.

Apparently, you can't even answer a simple question as to who you are.
While you're supposedly not launching attacks, you mock me as "the great Eric Evans" while addressing Mario, as if he is cowering in the corner when I enter the room.

Who are you tabarin? For, in spite of what you say is fact, you seem to thrive on twisted logic.
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Aug 12, 2013 04:41AM)
[/quote]

mario you also respect others who post under names that are not their own iam not even close to the only one on this site posting under a street name.....
[/quote]

One misunderstanding that we can clear up, I have no problems with performers posting under their street name. What I don't respect is pepole making up a charcter a pretend one. Now in my mind if a real worker comes on hear or any where with his street name he will be know by other performers. He will have buiness presence about his work and so on like a website a phone number, an email perhaps a home address. Most importantly he will be known by the busking comunity at least in part.

Say someone comes on hear and says I am "Super Ted" I am a busking god. Yet when you look at his profile thier is nothing their to see. Its all hidden no links into the busking comunity. Then you watch Super Ted argue and try to put a promernunt figuer of the comunity in his place. I am sorry I am not going to take Super Ted serously. Further to that I would encourege others of the comunity not to take this Super Ted serously.

In the light of this Tabarin I think it is fair for us to ask who are you? Other wise you appear to be a made up charcter who has come on hear says what he likes but will never held to account for it.
Message: Posted by: fireperformer911 (Aug 12, 2013 11:09AM)
Mario great post that is my point
my real name is shel and I attended busking school in Cardiff
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Aug 12, 2013 11:18AM)
Yes I know mr Higgens I remember you as a top guy.
Message: Posted by: fireperformer911 (Aug 12, 2013 10:18PM)
A big problem I see is when the guys with real chops and real experience get tired of dealing with virtual buskers and stop posting so level of advice goes in toilet.
So thanks Eric and Mario for hanging in there.
Message: Posted by: Eric Evans (Aug 16, 2013 04:15PM)
No worries Shel. Thanks for thinking of us.

Several days later we still don't know who Tabarin is. This exchange might just illustrate why there is so much ill-will on the internet; anonymous people taking pot-shots at known performers, or at least those willing to take a stand and be identified with it.

Maybe we didn't take this thread off topic after all.