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Topic: A post on creativity
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Aug 8, 2013 08:53AM)
I don't have a lot of it.

Notice, I don't say I'm NOT creative. I did re-work Mark Wilson's Cups and Balls to overcome a problem I perceived. And I arranged several cut and restored rope tricks into one routine that I think is pretty good. But;

I'm going through old issues of Magic Magazine. (One of these days, I'm gonna resubscribe.) And I come across an article by Eberhard Riese called "ideas from where?" It's basically how to jump start your creativity. Without going into detail, this was the list he provided;

1. old magic books, magazines, catalogues
2. decorating supply houses
3. store & mail-order catalogues
4. toyshops
5. photos, pictures, graphics
6. music
7. movies
8. comics, music clips, commercials
9. modern art exhibitions
10. myths, fairy tales, legends, literature

As I read this article and the details Mr. Riese gives, I thought of a line from 1978's "Superman" when Miss Tesmacher reads Lois Lane's article on Superman and all she gets out of it is; "He's six foot six, has blue eyes, doesn't smoke, doesn't drink and tells the truth." Luthor looks at her for a second and responds; "Miss Tesmacher, some people can read "War and Peace" and come away thinking it's just an adventure story while others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe."

Not everyone can look at that list of sources and say; "Wow! I can come up with a dozen different magic presentations now that I've read this article!" I do remember reading a kid's show trick in "Kid Stuff" that used Sugar Pops Pete (who?) and thinking, "I could redress this with Batman!" But I lost the book. If I get a new copy, maybe I'll put that together some day.

But creativity to me is a little trickle that I have to coax and weedle out of a rock of mediocrity. It doesn't shout at me from every source the way it does for Mr Reise.

Another thing I got from this issue. There's an article on Lance Burton's 10th Anniversary show in Vegas. There's a shot of an illusion called "The Magic Zone." I've read this issue many times (I re-read all my magic magazines constantly) but suddenly the penny dropped and I thought; "OMG! A striped booth, a girl, a clown, a cop..." this is that routine you've looked at a dozen times in your Tarbell book!"

Lance either IS creative or knows how to hire it. (Actually, probably a little bit of both!)

It's not a big thing. I just wanted to get that off my chest.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Aug 8, 2013 09:49AM)
That list really gives you points for potential inspiration, but it is almost essential that you first fully understand the process for creating a magic trick that does what a magic trick is supposed to do (in its barest form). Read (or re-read) The Trick Brain. It details the methods by which (probably) all magic effects are achieved. By the time you get to the end of the book, it will give you lists, which are to used as an exercise to construct basic effects. In a nutshell, you pick a basic effect, and object, and a potential method for accomplishing the effect with the chosen object.

Once you become proficient at doing this, it almost becomes second nature to "see" magic effects in almost anything you see lying around, or can imagine in your mind.

Sometimes you are lucky enough to be there when the apple falls from the tree, but it is always a good plan to learn how to climb the tree to go after the apples.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Aug 8, 2013 10:07AM)
Creativity can't be taught. It can be learned. But there isn't a magic 12 Step program one can follow which, after finishing, one can say 'Viola, I'm now creative!" there are tools and procedures one can employ to help unlock one's creative potential. But you have to find the ones that work for you.

I have my own creativity matrix that works quite well for me. but there's no guarantee that it will work for anyone else. But it is outlined and demonstrated in my book [url=http://www.lulu.com/us/en/shop/master-payne/sometimes-the-jokes-are-just-for-me/paperback/product-5459010.html] Sometimes the Jokes Are Just For Me [/url]

A few years ago one of the magazines ran a series of columns by Guy Hollingsworth in which he described his creative process. While interesting to read, I got nothing out of it as his method was totally opposite of how I worked. But then he approached the issue from the perspective of an engineer, focusing more on form and function. At least that was my interpretation of it.

My method is to question everything and not rely on the status quo. Also to ask ones self as to why you are performing the effect and why you have to use the various props one is employing in the routine.
Message: Posted by: MobilityBundle (Aug 8, 2013 10:30AM)
About the original post, I sometimes feel the same way about my own creativity (or lack thereof). To be sure, I'm not and have never been a professional magician, so there's not much pressure to be creative. At least, not on demand.

But then every so often, people tell me that I came up with something creative. Maybe it's patter or presentation, occasionally it's a little move or modification. I don't think those things as creative, but sometimes other people do.

That's all to say: maybe you're more creative than you think. Artists are never satisfied with their work, even if the rest of the world is.
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Aug 8, 2013 10:35AM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-08 11:07, Payne wrote:
Creativity can't be taught. It can be learned.
[/quote]

Do tell. Seems to me that if it can be learned it can be taught.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Aug 8, 2013 10:47AM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-08 11:35, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-08-08 11:07, Payne wrote:
Creativity can't be taught. It can be learned.
[/quote]

Do tell. Seems to me that if it can be learned it can be taught.
[/quote]

As I explained in my post you have to find what works for you. The process that one person uses to unlock their creative potential might not work for another. Thus you have to explore and expose yourself to others creative processes and take away whichever bits appeal to your thought processes. Creativity is not an exact science.
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Aug 8, 2013 11:11AM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-08 11:47, Payne wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-08-08 11:35, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-08-08 11:07, Payne wrote:
Creativity can't be taught. It can be learned.
[/quote]

Do tell. Seems to me that if it can be learned it can be taught.
[/quote]

As I explained in my post you have to find what works for you. The process that one person uses to unlock their creative potential might not work for another. Thus you have to explore and expose yourself to others creative processes and take away whichever bits appeal to your thought processes. Creativity is not an exact science.
[/quote]

But this misses the point of teaching and learning in general. Can math and music be taught? Sure, but that doesn't mean that the learner doesn't have to do the work. Teaching is not a matter of planting fully-formed ideas, skills and dispositions into students' heads. It is much more a matter of creating the conditions under which the student can internalize, develop understanding, and improve technique.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Aug 8, 2013 11:45AM)
You may be able to teach creativity but not everyone is perceptive enough to know what you are talking about. I know lots of people who can't multitask, and haven't the slightest idea what multitasking is. We are not all created equal.

Take Payne for example when I see one of his routines I just scratch my head and say "how the hell does he come up with that stuff?"
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 8, 2013 12:03PM)
[quote]On 2013-08-08 12:11, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Teaching . . . is much more a matter of [b][i]creating[/i][/b] the conditions under which the student can internalize, develop understanding, and improve technique.[/quote]
I saw what you did there.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 8, 2013 12:04PM)
[quote]On 2013-08-08 12:45, Al Angello wrote:
You may be able to teach creativity but not everyone is perceptive enough to know what you are talking about.[/quote]
Same goes for calculus.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Aug 8, 2013 12:19PM)
Please don't make me name the names of people at this forum who don't understand arithmetic.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 8, 2013 12:36PM)
Excellent approaches in the OP. I've always thought, though, that Fitzkee's "Trick Brain" is far too mechanical and forced, although no doubt others have found it useful.Personally, I think that his approach has been responsible for a LOT of bad magic.

In my own work, "The Schattenjaeger" (shadow hunter) I describe my own creative process. Basically it involved viewing anything you see (in an Office Max or craft store, for example) as an old effect for which you've lost the instructions.

http://www.lybrary.com/schattenjaeger-shadow-hunter-p-762.html?manufacturers_id=41
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 8, 2013 12:40PM)
[quote]On 2013-08-08 13:19, Al Angello wrote:
Please don't make me name the names of people at this forum who don't understand arithmetic.[/quote]
Initials should be sufficient.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 8, 2013 12:44PM)
Here's the relevant excerpt from "The Schattenjaeger":


[quote]The Schattenjaeger’s Workshop

One of his secrets is the knowledge that everyday objects are really effects whose instructions have been lost. A glass object on a supermarket shelf might look like a jelly jar, for example, but is that what it really is? He looks at the fluted glass sides that distort the appearance of the contents and realizes that it is a cleverly disguised secret device. He asks himself, “How does it work?”

At the checkout counter, while he is waiting to purchase his new discovery, he carefully peruses the mini-magazines that purport to reveal the secrets of numerology and how to harness your psychic powers. Are they simply pieces of bait to hook the gullible, or do they have another purpose?

He looks behind their tacky facade and sees what they are really for.

His own appearance is equally deceptive. Most people assume he’s dangerously psychotic.

They are wrong.

He is the Schattenjaeger. His workshop is everywhere.[/quote]
Message: Posted by: acesover (Aug 8, 2013 12:58PM)
Creativity of course can be taught. So can pool, or baseball or bowling, or calculus for that matter.

However teaching only goes so far and unless one is gifted from the outset one can and won't achieve world class in any of these. As an example when I was shooting pool at my best level I could walk into any room in the country and know I could beat 98% of the shooters there or at least hold my own against them. However there was the 2% of gifted shooters that I could not even touch. I could never be taught nor practice enough to be as good as they were. They just had it. Just like creativity. It can be taught to a certain point then it ends and you must just have it to really stand out. Teach a person how to paint, teach them about color and lighting and depth etc. and they will probably be adequate. Give them oils and a canvas and a subject, while giving oils and the same subject to REMBRANDT and see what each creates.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Aug 8, 2013 01:08PM)
Acesover
If you really want a lesson in humility go to a juggling convention, and see the 12 year old boys that can do 5 clubs all day long, while they giggle, chew gum, dance to the music, and chat with their friends. I love it when they see me struggling and ask me if they can help?
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Aug 8, 2013 01:15PM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-08 13:44, mastermindreader wrote:
Here's the relevant excerpt from "The Schattenjaeger":


[quote]The Schattenjaeger’s Workshop

One of his secrets is the knowledge that everyday objects are really effects whose instructions have been lost. A glass object on a supermarket shelf might look like a jelly jar, for example, but is that what it really is? He looks at the fluted glass sides that distort the appearance of the contents and realizes that it is a cleverly disguised secret device. He asks himself, “How does it work?”

At the checkout counter, while he is waiting to purchase his new discovery, he carefully peruses the mini-magazines that purport to reveal the secrets of numerology and how to harness your psychic powers. Are they simply pieces of bait to hook the gullible, or do they have another purpose?

He looks behind their tacky facade and sees what they are really for.

His own appearance is equally deceptive. Most people assume he’s dangerously psychotic.

They are wrong.

He is the Schattenjaeger. His workshop is everywhere.[/quote]
[/quote]

Lovely. Wordsworth would have approved.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Aug 8, 2013 01:19PM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-08 13:36, mastermindreader wrote:
Excellent approaches in the OP. I've always thought, though, that Fitzkee's "Trick Brain" is far too mechanical and forced, although no doubt others have found it useful.Personally, I think that his approach has been responsible for a LOT of bad magic.

[/quote]

The point of my mentioning that is to state that you have to know WHAT to do with a bit of inspiration. Otherwise it tends to be forgotten before it can truly be recognized as a spark of creativity.

If it is true that Fitzkee's approach is responsible for lots of bad magic, which it very well may be, that fault would better be placed upon the lack of aesthetics and non-artistic renderings of the elements at hand. Of course the concept of some magic effects done which any number of specific objects, can result in pure stupidity. But, I don't think Fitzkee's point was to create any effect with any object, knowing that a suitable method can be found. I think his point was made in hopes that the "creator" is not an idiot.

There is surely a bell curve in place here. I've heard some incredibly insane ideas brought up as possible magic effects that eventually make it to market. I have also heard some incredibly brilliant ones that never get realized. Most are somewhere between those extremes. Knowing how to realize them is going to have an affect on the person as far as their opinion of their own "creativity".

The more shapes you know, the more shapes you might see in clouds.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 8, 2013 01:25PM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-08 14:15, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:


Lovely. Wordsworth would have approved.
[/quote]

Thanks, John. At least I got my word's worth. :eek:
Message: Posted by: acesover (Aug 8, 2013 01:33PM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-08 14:08, Al Angello wrote:
Acesover
If you really want a lesson in humility go to a juggling convention, and see the 12 year old boys that can do 5 clubs all day long, while they giggle, chew gum, dance to the music, and chat with their friends. I love it when they see me struggling and ask me if they can help?
[/quote]

I hate to tell you how many times I tried to juggle. I just can't get it started. I cannot imagine how anyone could do it with 5 clubs. That is my point. You could probably teach me how to juggle somewhat but I would just never be good much less great. Every time I see a juggler I think they are fooling us and not really doing what it looks like they are doing. lol. However I do know better. They are just skillful.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 8, 2013 01:36PM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-08 14:19, Michael Baker wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-08-08 13:36, mastermindreader wrote:
Excellent approaches in the OP. I've always thought, though, that Fitzkee's "Trick Brain" is far too mechanical and forced, although no doubt others have found it useful.Personally, I think that his approach has been responsible for a LOT of bad magic.

[/quote]

The point of my mentioning that is to state that you have to know WHAT to do with a bit of inspiration. Otherwise it tends to be forgotten before it can truly be recognized as a spark of creativity.

If it is true that Fitzkee's approach is responsible for lots of bad magic, which it very well may be, that fault would better be placed upon the lack of aesthetics and non-artistic renderings of the elements at hand. Of course the concept of some magic effects done which any number of specific objects, can result in pure stupidity. But, I don't think Fitzkee's point was to create any effect with any object, knowing that a suitable method can be found. I think his point was made in hopes that the "creator" is not an idiot.

There is surely a bell curve in place here. I've heard some incredibly insane ideas brought up as possible magic effects that eventually make it to market. I have also heard some incredibly brilliant ones that never get realized. Most are somewhere between those extremes. Knowing how to realize them is going to have an affect on the person as far as their opinion of their own "creativity".

The more shapes you know, the more shapes you might see in clouds.
[/quote]

I certainly agree with that. The problem with Fitzkee, though, is that his entire approach is more like paint by numbers than actual creativity. (For analysis of methods I greatly prefer the writings of S. Sharpe, even though I have numerous theoretical disagreements with him.)
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Aug 8, 2013 01:44PM)
Acesover
If you can walk and talk you can learn to juggle. It is merely a matter of having the right teacher. Believe it or not I know two professional one arm jugglers. No foolen these guys only have one arm each and juggle professionally full time.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Aug 8, 2013 04:50PM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-08 12:45, Al Angello wrote:
You may be able to teach creativity but not everyone is perceptive enough to know what you are talking about. I know lots of people who can't multitask, and haven't the slightest idea what multitasking is. We are not all created equal.

Take Payne for example when I see one of his routines I just scratch my head and say "how the hell does he come up with that stuff?"
[/quote]

I find myself saying that with most of you!
Message: Posted by: ShirtlessKirk (Aug 8, 2013 05:46PM)
This reminded me a of TED talk I had seen.

http://www.ted.com/talks/david_kelley_how_to_build_your_creative_confidence.html
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Aug 8, 2013 07:17PM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-08 14:36, mastermindreader wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-08-08 14:19, Michael Baker wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-08-08 13:36, mastermindreader wrote:
Excellent approaches in the OP. I've always thought, though, that Fitzkee's "Trick Brain" is far too mechanical and forced, although no doubt others have found it useful.Personally, I think that his approach has been responsible for a LOT of bad magic.

[/quote]

The point of my mentioning that is to state that you have to know WHAT to do with a bit of inspiration. Otherwise it tends to be forgotten before it can truly be recognized as a spark of creativity.

If it is true that Fitzkee's approach is responsible for lots of bad magic, which it very well may be, that fault would better be placed upon the lack of aesthetics and non-artistic renderings of the elements at hand. Of course the concept of some magic effects done which any number of specific objects, can result in pure stupidity. But, I don't think Fitzkee's point was to create any effect with any object, knowing that a suitable method can be found. I think his point was made in hopes that the "creator" is not an idiot.

There is surely a bell curve in place here. I've heard some incredibly insane ideas brought up as possible magic effects that eventually make it to market. I have also heard some incredibly brilliant ones that never get realized. Most are somewhere between those extremes. Knowing how to realize them is going to have an affect on the person as far as their opinion of their own "creativity".

The more shapes you know, the more shapes you might see in clouds.
[/quote]

I certainly agree with that. The problem with Fitzkee, though, is that his entire approach is more like paint by numbers than actual creativity. (For analysis of methods I greatly prefer the writings of S. Sharpe, even though I have numerous theoretical disagreements with him.)
[/quote]

I believe then we also we agree that tools are just tools, and it is up to the artist to do something with them. But without proper tools, the artist has limitations.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 8, 2013 08:09PM)
Michael-

I agree completely.

Best-

Bob
Message: Posted by: George Ledo (Aug 8, 2013 10:55PM)
I run into the issue of being creative (or not) all the time when people see my work, and, after years of it, I keep coming back to the same response: we are all born creative, but we learn -- or are taught -- in various ways, to think that we're not because creativity is not relevant to the real world. "It's only for artists and those who don't know what they want to be when they grow up."

One of the creativity-killers I see all the time is over-analyzing. Trying to find a formula for being creative. There is no formula.

Many years ago, I was dating a very successful insurance agent, who swore from here to Andromeda and back that she had absolutely no creativity. She was totally convinced of it. One day we went to the local home-improvement center, and she took me to the garden section. So we were standing there, looking at shelf upon shelf of bulbs - bags of brown thingies which all looked the same to me. And she proceeded to point at this bag and say she wanted to plant some of these in front, and at another bag and say these would go in back, and so forth. She was standing there painting this picture of a gorgeous garden, just looking at bags of brown balls. I asked how she came up with her choices, and she explained, in totally clear terms, how she wanted to balance the colors and shapes and so on.

I tried -- man, how I tried -- to explain to her that what she had done showed amazing creativity, but she would not believe it. She would not accept it. So I had to drop it.

To this day, I will swear that she was just following her instincts - what she was born with, what we are all born with - and not thinking it was creativity because she had been conditioned to believe that creativity is only for oddballs.

I would love to teach a class on creativity someday. It wouldn't be about formulas or techniques or padded academic BS. It would be about just letting go and letting your brain do what it was born being able to do, and enjoying the journey. A bunch of years ago I taught an evening adult class on freehand drawing, and my approach was to get the students to forget that "they couldn't draw" and just let it go and listen and enjoy feeling free of a misconception. And it worked: the stuff they were doing, even after the first class, was amazing. I learned a heck of a lot doing that class.
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Aug 9, 2013 08:11AM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-08 23:55, George Ledo wrote:

I would love to teach a class on creativity someday. It wouldn't be about formulas or techniques or padded academic BS. It would be about just letting go and letting your brain do what it was born being able to do, and enjoying the journey. A bunch of years ago I taught an evening adult class on freehand drawing, and my approach was to get the students to forget that "they couldn't draw" and just let it go and listen and enjoy feeling free of a misconception. And it worked: the stuff they were doing, even after the first class, was amazing. I learned a heck of a lot doing that class.
[/quote]

A couple of years ago I was in a music store just browsing and I got talking to one of the staff. I'll sometimes pick up a book of guitar exercises or some general music work just to get me to think about and develop my technique in a new and fresh way. After a bit of talk, the sales guy sizes me up and leads me to a book called Effortless Mastery by Kenny Werner. I think you'd like it George.

Werner takes you through a series of reflections and meditations (and there are three meditation tracks on the attached CD) to help you, as an artist, to stop worrying about being good, but to just perform in the moment using what you already know. The language is New Agey in a way that I normally dislike, but the message is strong, and I found that the book and cd really work for my music and my magic.

As I said, I've had the book for a couple of years, but now whenever I feel that my art is getting stuck, I return to the meditations and remind myself how to free up my creativity and enjoy my art for what it is, not for what my ego wants to get out of it.

John
Message: Posted by: magicalaurie (Aug 9, 2013 11:17AM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-08 14:19, Michael Baker wrote:
I think his point was made in hopes that the "creator" is not an idiot.
[/quote]

! I bought Fitzkee's book recently and having not yet had a chance to read it, I was disappointed to see Bob's remarks above. I think Fitzkee's "Magic by Misdirection" is one of the best out there, but I was seriously disappointed in his "Showmanship for Magicians". So, I hope I find "The Trick Brain" to be in keeping with your statement, Michael. :) This topic might be aptly placed in the "Food for Thought" section of the Café, I think.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 9, 2013 02:50PM)
Hi Laurie-

Don't be discouraged by my comments about "The Trick Brain." It's worth reading because Fitzkee does give a useful analysis of effects and methods. My disagreement arises out of the fact that a literal application of his "system" is more like following a rote formula rather than an exercise in creativity. In other words, those who will get the most out of his work are the ones who already ARE creative. (Like you, for example :) )

Good thoughts,

Bob
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Aug 9, 2013 04:12PM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-09 15:50, mastermindreader wrote:
Hi Laurie-

Don't be discouraged by my comments about "The Trick Brain." It's worth reading because Fitzkee does give a useful analysis of effects and methods. My disagreement arises out of the fact that a literal application of his "system" is more like following a rote formula rather than an exercise in creativity. In other words, those who will get the most out of his work are the ones who already ARE creative. (Like you, for example :) )

Good thoughts,

Bob
[/quote]

Precisely.

Regarding Laurie's comments on "Showmanship for Magicians", this book requires more reading between the lines than any of them. The book on Misdirection is pretty cut and dried, and the information will likely not change much, except for more precise means and applications, such as the very in depth studies by guys like Tommy Wonder.

On the other hand, "Showmanship" is full of outdated information, regarding specific things that are to be considered useful in a magic act. Lists of "audience appeals" is probably at the top of that list. Things that audiences found entertaining back then, are of course different today. The book is still very useful for the broad elements that it exemplifies with obsolete examples. There is still a need to present one's self in an immaculate manner that is consistent with the character portrayed. There is still the need to spark interest. There is still the need to structure an act for best dramatic build, etc... Thus the need to read between the lines and glean the true gold within.

Anyone who has been in magic for any length of time, especially with the rapid communication available these days, has likely encountered some if not much of the basic information already out there. The more you know, the less new information you are likely to find in some of the older books. Quite often, so called new information in more recent books (DVDs, lectures, etc.) is nothing more than a retelling of what was in these earlier books. You can make an old cupcake look great if you put new frosting on it.

The exercises in The Trick Brain are meant to be just that. They are merely for the student to understand the processes of constructing an effect through practical application. But this is like teaching someone to apply paint to a canvas with a brush. You have to know how it is done in order to stand a chance of rendering any artistic and creative result. But, when the process is done by rote, it is no different than giving paint and a brush to a monkey. He can be taught how to put it on the canvas, but the results are not necessarily going to be inspired or pretty.

Never turn down the chance to read any book. But, read them all with the ability to look beneath the surface. The term "face value" is fairly telling.
Message: Posted by: George Ledo (Aug 9, 2013 04:24PM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-09 09:11, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
[quote]
A couple of years ago I was in a music store just browsing and I got talking to one of the staff. I'll sometimes pick up a book of guitar exercises or some general music work just to get me to think about and develop my technique in a new and fresh way. After a bit of talk, the sales guy sizes me up and leads me to a book called Effortless Mastery by Kenny Werner. I think you'd like it George.
[/quote]
Thanks, John. I'll keep an eye out for it.
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Aug 9, 2013 10:53PM)
Several years back, I bought a couple of boxes of plans and ideas that once belonged to a well-known illusion designer and builder. There were things from Abbott, Owen, Thayer, Osborne, and others, but in addition to the plans, there were lots of catalogs from cool hardware stores, samples of various materials, etc. that seemed like a good starting place for ideas and routines.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Aug 21, 2013 05:13AM)
Being creative and actually creating are two different things.

A lot of of people have great creative ideas within their sphere of knowledge.

But most don't do anything about them.

For me passion is first, the creativity will come naturally from just doing what you love to do long enough that you see many different possibilities in what you're doing.

And passion gets things done, that's why it's called passion.

If you don't do anything about it, it ain't passion, it's just a strong interest imho... :)
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Aug 21, 2013 07:15AM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-21 06:13, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Being creative and actually creating are two different things.

A lot of of people have great creative ideas within their sphere of knowledge.

But most don't do anything about them.

[/quote]

That's creativity in a nutshell! I have lots of STUFF - magic, woodworking, toy trains, etc. I have a lot of ideas for magic routines, I have started a woodworking project to build a bass marimba, I have everything that I need in storage to build an amazing train layout. However, the past 21 years of my life have been occupied with my family, so "doing something" with my ideas and my stuff has been on hold. Now that the children are both in college, I will need to fill the void with something, so maybe I can get back to creating.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Aug 21, 2013 08:26AM)
[quote]
I believe then we also we agree that tools are just tools, and it is up to the artist to do something with them. But without proper tools, the artist has limitations.
[/quote]

And with the best tools in the world, a non-artist isn't going to do a very good job.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Aug 21, 2013 08:39AM)
I have always enjoyed the process of learning a trick by doing it over and over in front of live audiences and coming up with my own presentation based on trial and error. If I can't give a trick my own signature it just isn't any fun to do.
Message: Posted by: Slide (Aug 21, 2013 11:08AM)
I've always been a creative person and recently wrote an article on the "visions" I've gotten over the years. I'm not sure creativity can be taught or learned. At least not the way creativity happens with me. For as long as I can remember, I get "visions" (which is the best way I know how to describe it) where I get fully formed ideas that pop fully formed in my head.

These things don't happen often, perhaps once every 3 or 4 years but when I they happen I treat them seriously. My last 3 business were created this way: I just "saw it".

They usually happen when I'm thinking or doing something else: sitting on the porch, driving my car.. I had a recent vision this summer and it gave me the idea of what I want to devote the rest of my life to. It was about microentrepreneurship which I talked about in a different thread.

I don't how you bring these things about. They just happen to me. I can't force them, I just have to be patient and let them come at the time they decide to come.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Aug 21, 2013 03:05PM)
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On 2013-08-21 08:15, ClintonMagus wrote:
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On 2013-08-21 06:13, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Being creative and actually creating are two different things.

A lot of of people have great creative ideas within their sphere of knowledge.

But most don't do anything about them.

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That's creativity in a nutshell! I have lots of STUFF - magic, woodworking, toy trains, etc. I have a lot of ideas for magic routines, I have started a woodworking project to build a bass marimba, I have everything that I need in storage to build an amazing train layout. However, the past 21 years of my life have been occupied with my family, so "doing something" with my ideas and my stuff has been on hold. Now that the children are both in college, I will need to fill the void with something, so maybe I can get back to creating.
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All the best! :)
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Aug 21, 2013 03:13PM)
Ideas are the easy part. It's the discipline to see them through that is hard to come by.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Aug 21, 2013 03:20PM)
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On 2013-08-21 16:13, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Ideas are the easy part. It's the discipline to see them through that is hard to come by.

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Exactly the point I made before. ;)