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Topic: Link Exchange
Message: Posted by: JoshLondonMagic (Aug 26, 2013 11:44PM)
Anyone interested in doing some link exchanges? Build out SEO scores and get higher on the search engines.

If there's an interest, perhaps we can just post the link we want (something like "San Diego Magician Josh London") in HTML right here and we can all link to each other?

Josh
Message: Posted by: ku7uk3 (Aug 27, 2013 07:54AM)
Someones been reading a very old book on seo, forgetting about the website content in regards to look and its effectivness on its user...
Message: Posted by: JoshLondonMagic (Aug 27, 2013 10:59AM)
That same someone realizes the value of putting a page on their site under the "Resources" section that could help both of us.

Also, not going to get into website design with someone that has a site like yours.
Message: Posted by: Close.Up.Dave (Aug 27, 2013 01:00PM)
Think about it like this, if magicians post links to other magician's websites, you're going to be getting people on track to someone else's site, and therefore someone else's business. Not very productive to me. It would be far better for you to link up with local event vendors and planners. Then, hope that people actually click on it. You could also get listed on some local blogs or news sites. That would get people more likely to click towards your site because they actually WANT to see what you're offering. It's thinking about it from the way they would be shopping.

As far as SEO goes, I'm not an expert, more like a novice. But I have had some luck in short amounts of time by researching the keywords that are helpful, and then making the content, tags, and titles relevant to those words. The page that drives the most traffic to my site was a blog post I made months ago, but it gets clicks because it references something people are looking for (the page isn't even very good to begin with. But, it gets listed anyway).

Which brings me to another point: from what I've researched, most people are googling for magicians are for children's parties. I'd bet 99% of people are googling for that. It's great for children's entertainers, not so great for other types of magic UNLESS you are aiming to be seen as an event vendor/service instead of simply a magician.

The way people search and the way we want to be found are usually two different things. A resources page is a really good idea, but I'd say link up to a DJ, venue, etc. in the same way that a Realtor would link to his/her mortgage broker friend.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Aug 27, 2013 01:27PM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-27 14:00, Close.Up.Dave wrote:

The way people search and the way we want to be found are usually two different things.
[/quote]

I strongly agree with this. The problem with links and links exchanges is you are giving them reason to click away from your site. While I understand the perceived benefits, I rarely ever click on links found on others web site.

With that said, I do have some links on some of our sites...but they are to our other businesses and services. They are cross links to other sites of ours that serve the same markets. They are separate businesses but are all ours. Plus if they click away to one of those links on the page they land is a return link back to the site they came from.
Message: Posted by: JoshLondonMagic (Aug 27, 2013 03:09PM)
A few things here, while I agree that having a link building exchange with other vendors (DJs, caterers, etc.) still linking with other magicians in totally different areas is a good idea. The site that you would be linked to is http://www.TheSanDiegoMagician.com. I'd be hard pressed to image someone in Florida looking at my site considering me for their kid's birthday party.

Second, SEO basics are still alive and much needed today more than ever. Link building is fundamental as a well developed and user-friendly website. So to say anything otherwise is silly.

Third, there are options as to how the user is directed when the link is clicked, such as "open in new window or tab."

Fourth, the links would never nor should be easily viewed where normal users would be able to see them. In my case, the link to your website would be held on my Resources page (http://thesandiegomagician.com/resources/) with a simple work that says "Links." They click that and it goes to another page with links to other magician's sites. Hardly easy to find and again, if my visitor is in San Diego, why would they hire a magician in San Francisco for a kid show?

That's why I have multiple sites :)

Not a problem at all about this, just wanted to get my feelers out on this as I was contacted by another magician and we exchanged links and I rose to close to the top of the search engines.

If anyone is interested just PM me.

Sorry to ruffle any feathers :)

Josh
Message: Posted by: Close.Up.Dave (Aug 27, 2013 03:22PM)
No feathers are ruffled because I just honestly disagree with what your perspective is. If its not a good idea for someone in Florida to search for your site, why would it be a good idea to link up with a Florida magician if it means you might get ranked in their area (not that you necessarily will). You're talking about targeting your site in areas that don't fit what you want people to be searching for. Hardly makes sense to me.

Also, it makes no sense to me to say that the keywords won't be seen by the normal users, when relevant keywords is exactly what google is going after and cataloging. Makes more sense to just build a strong, market specific network. You either want them to see your content, or you don't. Any loopholes and tricks hardly seem worth the time when you're trying to sell a magic show to people within a 25 mile radius.
Message: Posted by: JoshLondonMagic (Aug 27, 2013 04:22PM)
No loopholes or tricks involved. The link someone would have on their site for me is "San Diego Magician Josh London." If you knew anything about web design or how the search engines work you would know that when a user puts in "san diego magician" into Google they crawl every website and the websites that have the most links with the phrases "San Diego magician" usually come out on top.

We can agree to disagree because you obviously know nothing about website design or how seo works. Link building is as honest as the day is long if you do it right. I've seen it work and my rankings prove it.

I was just seeing if anyone was interested in exchanging links. But, I suppose I should have prefaced that with anyone who has a website to start out with and not an amateur.

Josh
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Aug 27, 2013 04:27PM)
I agree with disagreeing, not that I'm agreeing or disagreeing with anyone. We all have to determine what works best for us and our individual applications...agreed?
Message: Posted by: Close.Up.Dave (Aug 27, 2013 04:41PM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-27 17:22, JoshLondonMagic wrote:
No loopholes or tricks involved. The link someone would have on their site for me is "San Diego Magician Josh London." If you knew anything about web design or how the search engines work you would know that when a user puts in "san diego magician" into Google they crawl every website and the websites that have the most links with the phrases "San Diego magician" usually come out on top.

We can agree to disagree because you obviously know nothing about website design or how seo works. Link building is as honest as the day is long if you do it right. I've seen it work and my rankings prove it.

I was just seeing if anyone was interested in exchanging links. But, I suppose I should have prefaced that with anyone who has a website to start out with and not an amateur.

Josh
[/quote]

Your post is full of assumptions so I'll just leave you with the correction that I didn't mean to say that link exchanges were dishonest, only that there are no short cuts to being the most relevant option that google chooses for their rankings.
Message: Posted by: Scott Burton (Aug 27, 2013 05:14PM)
I'm pretty sure that Google is smart enough to know what you're up to with link exchanges (they see the circular pattern - which is unnatural in most instances). Ideally, the content on your website needs to reflect what people are legitimately looking for and/or interested in. And...the content should be interesting enough where people want to link to you.
Message: Posted by: JoshLondonMagic (Aug 27, 2013 05:25PM)
[quote]
On 2013-08-27 17:27, Mindpro wrote:
I agree with disagreeing, not that I'm agreeing or disagreeing with anyone. We all have to determine what works best for us and our individual applications...agreed?
[/quote]

Agreed.
Message: Posted by: charliecheckers (Aug 27, 2013 08:24PM)
SEO is not something I have not really spent any time on. I am curious how often people get bookings from people doing google searches for children entertainers? Does it make up a large percentage of birthday bookings?
Message: Posted by: JoshLondonMagic (Aug 27, 2013 08:43PM)
I personally book about 40-45% of my shows from SEO/PPC marketing. SEO is free of course (except the time/learning curve involved) and I spend about $100 a month in PPC campaigns and book about 5-7 shows a month from PPC alone. My other client find me via word of mouth from friends or they've seen me perform.

Josh
Message: Posted by: charliecheckers (Aug 27, 2013 09:40PM)
Thanks Josh. I can see why you benefit from being in a favorable position on search engines.
Message: Posted by: ku7uk3 (Aug 29, 2013 02:47PM)
It seems the posters above have said in more details what I said (and got attacked for) in my first post. Trying to cheat google into fooling it to get you to the top will no-longer work. I could talk about the panda and penguin search features (or whatever animal there on as you read this) but suffice to say, there is a good chance it could actually hurt your search rankings if you make it obvious what your doing (thats why you see so few professional sites with referal link nowadays).

don't get me wrong though, teaming up with caterer or dj may be a good idea, as you can pass each other work and if a website link helps secure and strengthens that relationship then do it. Actual people sending you clients is important. But my advice (for whats its worth, even though you insulted me) is to not go down the route of link exchanges but instead focus on the internal page description, html based description text on the actual page that matches the page decription and clean code (if you know how to write it). Also it has to be aestically pleasing, not just to impress your clients but also because the google reps will 'rank' your site on how it looks, usually within three short seconds of looking at it and moving onto the next one.

Page ranking can be read about in more details elsewhere, and there are several youtube videos which explain how it all works. But ive said enough to help you (dont know why), ill leave it in your obviously capable hands.

Steve
Message: Posted by: ku7uk3 (Aug 29, 2013 03:40PM)
P.s. here is the link on google faq that says its a violation and will get your site kicked off its search ranking:
https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/66356?hl=en
Message: Posted by: thecharlatan (Sep 16, 2013 11:00AM)
Josh, you could see some success with link building, but it has to be the right kind of links. You want high pageranking magic related sites to place links in as prominent positions as possible. Other magician sites may have some value, but probably not on a hidden away 'links' page - Google is not a fan of these.

Also bear in mind that these days Google will recognize too many un-natural link phrases as being unhealthy - i.e if they all say the same thing. You should have a mix of generic ('click here'), Branded ('Josh London') and search term ('hire san diego magician') link texts ideally.

This is all just a small part of it, but I hope that helps. I work in SEO as my day job!
Message: Posted by: MichaelDouglas (Sep 16, 2013 03:48PM)
From what I've read and been told, Link Exchanges were in vogue a few years back but since the Google updates (Panda?) LE's are no longer much of a help and as the link above shares, it might do more harm than good. With that said, I've been told that if you are going to do a link exchange and avoid any negative fallout, then the url of the link should not match the url of the site in both directions. Use a url shortener service like https://bitly.com/ to alter the URL.

Thus, abc.com's link to 123.com is fine as long as 123.com's link back is not abc.com. The link back should be altered.

But I'm nowhere close to an SEO expert so my info may be inaccurate or outdated.
Message: Posted by: magicofCurtis (Sep 16, 2013 07:00PM)
[quote]
On 2013-09-16 12:00, thecharlatan wrote:
Josh, you could see some success with link building, but it has to be the right kind of links. You want high pageranking magic related sites to place links in as prominent positions as possible. Other magician sites may have some value, but probably not on a hidden away 'links' page - Google is not a fan of these.

Also bear in mind that these days Google will recognize too many un-natural link phrases as being unhealthy - i.e if they all say the same thing. You should have a mix of generic ('click here'), Branded ('Josh London') and search term ('hire san diego magician') link texts ideally.

[/quote]

Hmm right links? Posting on a magic message board to other magicians... is not right?

I think the surrounding key words would work on other magicians websites? lol
Message: Posted by: MrHyde (Sep 16, 2013 09:08PM)
We had quite a lot of success in the early days of MagicCoach with a Link Swapping group.

We only had people with high ranking pages and in non competing markets. Yes, the rules have changed in terms of SEOUL but I think there is still a lot of value in a group that feeds links to other people.

Timothy
Message: Posted by: thecharlatan (Sep 19, 2013 02:56AM)
People freak out too much about Panda(/penguin) updates. Link building is still a crucial part of SEO and still plays a part when done properly. If you pay agencies to buy up 1000's of links for you then yes, Google will catch up with you. Grow organically and have people who have hired you link to your site, even offer a discount to customers who can provide you with a link! Always keep your eyes out for link building opportunities and over time you will see good results. Don't be tempted to think that 'oh, google updates will move the goalposts so there's no point putting the time in.'

Its definitely worth it.