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Topic: Michael Skinner performance of his Cups and Balls
Message: Posted by: Magic-Daniel (Sep 9, 2013 05:06AM)
Is not many clips there are on youtube of Michael Skinner in his prime. Here is one though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ebutknI8UU. His wonderful impromptu performce of the Cups and Balls on television.

Wonderful, wonderful performace!
Message: Posted by: Tilman (Sep 9, 2013 05:57AM)
Yes, this is truly wonderful! Also, I have never seen the phase starting at 1:16 before and really like it.

Amongst the related videos, you should also get a link to a living room performance of his 3 ring routine. Wow.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Sep 9, 2013 07:44AM)
Thanks for linking to that :)
Message: Posted by: Magic-Daniel (Sep 9, 2013 11:08AM)
[quote]
On 2013-09-09 06:57, Tilman wrote:
Yes, this is truly wonderful! Also, I have never seen the phase starting at 1:16 before and really like it.

Amongst the related videos, you should also get a link to a living room performance of his 3 ring routine. Wow.
[/quote]

I have already seen that clip. Michael Skinner is probably my biggest hero in magic, so I hunt down every clip of him I possible can :)
Message: Posted by: afinemesh (Sep 9, 2013 03:12PM)
Brilliant! Really well done!
Message: Posted by: Rook (Sep 10, 2013 09:34AM)
Nice! Time to dust off my cups and a balls again!
-Tom
Message: Posted by: RobFromNZ (Sep 11, 2013 06:53AM)
I always enjoy watching these videos when an audience is enjoying the magic. We might be expecting the final loads, but it's nice to hear spectators surprise and enjoyment.
Message: Posted by: whbuch (Sep 11, 2013 12:59PM)
Wow was that fantastic. Love how this routine doesn't even rely on any stacking phases and still blows others away.

My wife and I like to go to antique shops and we see cups like that all the time - gonna try and find a matching set.
Message: Posted by: Jiceh (Sep 11, 2013 02:38PM)
Really nice
Great interpretation of Vernon's routine!
The rythm is perfect
Message: Posted by: Jon Blakeney (Sep 11, 2013 06:56PM)
Thanks for sharing the link,this is the youngest I have seen him , just the sound of his voice says MAGICIAN and Gentleman
Message: Posted by: BeThePlunk (Sep 11, 2013 08:51PM)
Yes, thanks. A real inspiration. Really caught me, as I only saw one final load. Phew!
Message: Posted by: BeThePlunk (Sep 12, 2013 05:14AM)
Then again, maybe not so impromptu, since he was carrying four loads that neatly fit the cups he "found" on the table. Still brilliant and something to aspire to. I don't mean to quibble, afterall, everything we do depends on the audience believing something "that just isn't so" (as Michael Ammar has put it).
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Sep 12, 2013 02:46PM)
[b] I once did an impromptu routine in a Chinese restaurant using tea cups, wadded up chop stick wrappers for balls and a LEMON FINAL load I took out of the kitchen.[/b]
Message: Posted by: Michael Landes (Sep 12, 2013 03:16PM)
[quote]
On 2013-09-11 15:38, Jiceh wrote:
Really nice
Great interpretation of Vernon's routine!
The rythm is perfect
[/quote]

Have no idea why you call this a version of "Vernon's routine".
It isn't. The opening, which may be the reason, is Conus from the
eighteenth century. The routine much more closely relates to Charlie's routine,
and most likely Mike used that as his basis.
Message: Posted by: JordanB (Sep 12, 2013 05:48PM)
I think he's talking about the fake explanation and loading sequence.

Thanks for posting the clip!
Message: Posted by: Michael Landes (Sep 12, 2013 11:45PM)
[quote]
On 2013-09-12 18:48, JordanB wrote:
I think he's talking about the fake explanation and loading sequence.

Thanks for posting the clip!
[/quote]

Interesting! Perhaps. But does that originate in the 20th century either. let alone
with the "Vernon routine"?
Message: Posted by: JordanB (Sep 13, 2013 10:58AM)
I haven't done extensive research on pre-20th century cup and balls moves, but my opinion is that the only original piece of Vernon's routine is the loading sequence with the fake explanation. Bob White researched some history on Vernon's routine as well when filming his cups and ball DVD and came to the same conclusion.

Most of the Vernon routine is in print in many other places. I think he learned the opening from the Charles Bertram routine in the C. Lang Neil book, which is also in print in a pre-20th century text.

It's said that Pop Krieger had an influence on Vernon's routine but I haven't been able to find a detailed description of Krieger's routine....so it's possible that it might have come from there. But based on what I know about the Professor's magic the loading sequence with the fake explanation seems like the type of magic that he liked to create.
Message: Posted by: Michael Landes (Sep 14, 2013 12:53AM)
[quote]
On 2013-09-13 11:58, JordanB wrote:
I haven't done extensive research on pre-20th century cup and balls moves, but my opinion is that the only original piece of Vernon's routine is the loading sequence with the fake explanation. Bob White researched some history on Vernon's routine as well when filming his cups and ball DVD and came to the same conclusion.

Most of the Vernon routine is in print in many other places. I think he learned the opening from the Charles Bertram routine in the C. Lang Neil book, which is also in print in a pre-20th century text.

It's said that Pop Krieger had an influence on Vernon's routine but I haven't been able to find a detailed description of Krieger's routine....so it's possible that it might have come from there. But based on what I know about the Professor's magic the loading sequence with the fake explanation seems like the type of magic that he liked to create.
[/quote]
It is my understanding that the importance of the his final load sequence is that it popularized loading from the pocket and he got that from Malini.
Message: Posted by: JordanB (Sep 14, 2013 06:44AM)
I would argue that Malini popularized loading from the pockets rather than Vernon. Regardless the Professors gambit for loading the cups remains his most valuable and possibly only original contribution to the routine , other than the way he put the various sequences together.

I think the loading sequence is one of the most brilliantly thought out ploys in close up magic.
Message: Posted by: Leo H (Sep 14, 2013 10:23AM)
Vernon's tip over sequence at the beginning of his routine may have been Pop Krieger's. Yes, Malini started the ball rolling with the final loads from the pockets, but without a doubt it was Vernon that spread it like wildfire through lectures and the DVBOM. When Vernon performed the cups and balls at Billy Rose's nightclub in Manhattan in the 1930s, no other magicians in that area were performing this. Things were that slow with the cups and balls at that time.
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Sep 19, 2013 03:43PM)
[quote]
On 2013-09-12 16:16, Michael Landes wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-09-11 15:38, Jiceh wrote:
Really nice
Great interpretation of Vernon's routine!
The rythm is perfect
[/quote]

Have no idea why you call this a version of "Vernon's routine".
It isn't. The opening, which may be the reason, is Conus from the
eighteenth century. The routine much more closely relates to Charlie's routine,
and most likely Mike used that as his basis.
[/quote]

You are exactly right. This was Mike's handling of Charlie Miller's Impromptu Cups and Balls routine that can be found in the book "Classic Secrets Of Magic which was written by Bruce Elliot. Many do confuse this for being a version of the Vernon routine due to the ending. But it was not based on Dai's routine at all.
Message: Posted by: pepka (Sep 24, 2013 01:01AM)
Hey youngins.....watch!!! THAT'S how it's done!!!!!!
Message: Posted by: Jiceh (Sep 24, 2013 06:19AM)
[quote]
On 2013-09-12 16:16, Michael Landes wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-09-11 15:38, Jiceh wrote:
Really nice
Great interpretation of Vernon's routine!
The rythm is perfect
[/quote]

Have no idea why you call this a version of "Vernon's routine".
It isn't. The opening, which may be the reason, is Conus from the
eighteenth century. The routine much more closely relates to Charlie's routine,
and most likely Mike used that as his basis.
[/quote]
It isn't Vernon's routine : I agree
It is close to Vernon's routine (Vernon used the Conus Opening : yes he has not invented all the moves and sequences of the 20th century).
I don't know Charlie Miller's routine but sure it must be good.
Message: Posted by: Jiceh (Sep 24, 2013 06:22AM)
The fact is that in Vernon, Miller and Skinner's routines, there are a lot of similarities ...
Message: Posted by: Alan Munro (Sep 26, 2013 02:49PM)
Loved Skinner's performance!
Message: Posted by: Gulyás Imre Miklós (Sep 28, 2013 08:46PM)
Great performance for great effect.

I just don't like the fake explanation phase, whoever does it (Vernon, Gazzo, or in this case Skinner..)
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Sep 29, 2013 10:52AM)
Gulyas,

I had a very interesting talk with Bob White about the fake explanation. In case you didn't know Bob spent a lot of time
with Vernon and even more with Charlie Miller. Needless to say I looked at the fake a lot differently.
Message: Posted by: Magic-Daniel (Sep 29, 2013 07:42PM)
Jared kopf also has his opinion on Vernons fake transfer explanation.

Basically he agrees with Dai Vernon
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Oct 3, 2013 08:30AM)
One thing I noticed was the audience, I know the guy on the right is Tony Curtis but not sure who the other two are on the left. They could be professional actors for all I know, but whoever they are all three of them know how to behave in front of a camera. Which reminds me of L&L magic DVDs with hired audience to behave a certain way in front of a camera.

There is no doubt that Michael Skinner is talented, but in front of a controlled audience makes me wonder where the real magic is?
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Oct 3, 2013 10:20AM)
I wouldn't discount Mr. Skinner's skill based on the audience at the table. The two on the ends were celebrity guests. The one on the far left is Jack Lemmon and of course the one on the right was mentioned as being Tony Curtis. The man in the middle was the show host Steve Allen. I don't think they were "acting" surprised in any way as all they really did was sit politely and watch.
Message: Posted by: pabloinus (Oct 3, 2013 11:06AM)
Very entertaining, beautiful to watch
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Oct 4, 2013 01:23AM)
[quote]
On 2013-10-03 11:20, Dave V wrote:
. The man in the middle was the show host Steve Allen. I don't think they were "acting" surprised in any way as all they really did was sit politely and watch.
[/quote]

That wasn't Steve Allen that was Joe Flynn. He was on Mchales Navy. If I remember correctly his character's last name was Leddbetter.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Oct 5, 2013 01:52AM)
[quote]
On 2013-10-04 02:23, RS1963 wrote:

That wasn't Steve Allen that was Joe Flynn. He was on Mchales Navy. If I remember correctly his character's last name was Leddbetter.
[/quote]

On second thought, I'll go with that, especially since Steve's show ended in 1965 and the video says this was shot in 1973
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Oct 8, 2013 01:07AM)
Added note also on the Tonight show the same evening that Michael Skinner was on Mark Wilson had been on presenting some of his illusions. I'm not sure what Mark did since I haven't seen the video footage of that.

At the start of the full video of Mike's appearance Tony Curtis who was the guest host that evening says. "Earlier we had some large stage illusions. Now the close up magic of Mike Skinner" Not word for word but pretty close. Mike told me that the illusions were presented earlier in the show by Mark Wilson. Before the Cups and Balls Mike had also performed a coins across routine,then the cups, followed up with the Three card monte (Vernon's routine) as the finale.
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Dec 2, 2013 03:25PM)
For those that are would like to learn the cups and balls routine that Michael Skinner performed on The Tonight Show It is now available as a Pdf. Michael's version of Charlie Miller's Impromptu Cups and Balls has never been published before. Now it is available. Steve Pellegrino has described Mike's routine very well. This routine to me is worth much more than the 9.95 here is the link http://skinnercups.com/
Message: Posted by: Magic-Daniel (Dec 2, 2013 03:48PM)
Thanks RS1963

Bought it right away. Huge Skinner fan!
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Dec 2, 2013 04:08PM)
You are very welcome Daniel.
Message: Posted by: Leo H (Dec 2, 2013 09:41PM)
This is a fantastic manuscript! It was time that Skinner's routine finally reached publication.
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Dec 3, 2013 04:14PM)
Steve P. had been entertaining the idea of writing Michael Skinner's C&B routine for the past year if not longer. Steve put a lot of time and effort into this. He is also very pleased that those of you who have purchased Michael Skinner's Impromptu Cups and Balls Routine have found it to your liking. It is a very good routine He also wanted my to say thank you to those that have purchased this so far.
Message: Posted by: BeThePlunk (Dec 5, 2013 07:41PM)
Just bought the manuscript myself. Should be cool. The piece of the routine that really wows me is the ROV (so it appears to me) in the very first phase. It is a lovely improvement on the transfer and makes that phase more magical by adding another layer to the action. Is that described in the manuscript? Or does anyone know where it is taught? And, yes, I'm still trying to build my courage for final loads.
Message: Posted by: BeThePlunk (Dec 6, 2013 05:15AM)
Yes, this is a wonderfully thoughtful and well produced manuscript with thoughtful commentary that goes way beyond the ordinary "ball goes from here to there, then you do this" sort of description. Thanks for the great work... and at a price that is more than reasonable for what if offered.
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Dec 18, 2013 02:03AM)
The Micheal Skinner Cups and Balls Routine is now sold exclusive By Lybrary.com you will find it here http://www.lybrary.com/michael-skinners-impromptu-cups-and-balls-routine-p-401648.html