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Topic: Forcing Pendulum...
Message: Posted by: docdazzal (Sep 24, 2013 12:07AM)
Bill Montana's Forcing Pendulum...

The Pitch: (From Steven's Magic Emporium)...Bill Montana never ceases to amaze me, both with the effects that he researches and produces, and equally with respect to how well they work. Case and Point Bill's Alpha Spinning Nickel's (which by the way Ted Karmilovich has a great routine using them featured in the Scryer's 13 Book). This new forcing pendulum is a very affordable utility prop which will serve you exceptionally well. While discussing the uses of it with Bill, (other than the obvious), he touched on one that I have to share with you. Sometimes, when he is doing readings, the client will ask a very powerful question the pendulum serves as another authority to convey the right answer, much better than if it came from the reader.

No Magnets...No Threads...No Electronics...Completely Self-Contained...The pendulum be handed out for inspection before and after use. In fact, it looks like a normal style of pendulum that is sold in new age shops all over the world.

However this pendulum has one main difference when used you will know the outcome right after you hand it to the person before the pendulum even begins to swing. The pendulum can move in many different directions however from the very start be able to determine this movement before it happens which enables the performer to predict the outcome of a yes, no or maybe question prior to its first movement.

This pendulum has been specially modified using a secret manufacturing process. In fact this process involves four different processes to make the forcing pendulum which are kept secret at this time. In the instructions for the Bill Montana's Forcing Pendulum you will be learn how to use this cleaver yet simple device but will not learn much at all in the way as how it was crafted from a standard pendulum.

Best of all you can use it or you can place it in the hands of a spectator for them to use. This pendulum may also be used as a normal pendulum or a forcing pendulum. The pendulum is made from copper plated steel.



A Review: This is a cool item that allows you to know which way the pendulum will swing...BEFORE the pendulum actually begins to move. This allows you to "predict" an answer your client may ask...or it can be used to select a predicted card or billet.

This is a top quality item...and very straight forward in its presentation. As the instructions say...the gimmick is hidden in plain sight. The instructions is one 81/2 x 11 sheet printed on both sides...with reduced printing. There is one drawing showing how the pendulum can be positioned for its various movements.

Although the instructions say the pendulum can be freely handled by the "sitter" I personally wouldn't give it to the client to work, however, the pendulum can absolutely be 100% examined. There is nothing to hide...it's just something I wouldn't do. In real life...I don't give my pendulum to the client...so why do so with this pendulum...?


This item could lend its self well to any sort of prediction effect, locating and card or billet effect, or "predicting" an answer to a question. I would certainly classify this item as a utility item...although a utility item with a specialized venue i.e. psychic, paranormal, and even bizarre applications.

An interesting effect could be to know what question your client would like a yes or no answer to (using your favorite method to determine the question)...and then "predict" how the pendulum will answer...pick up your pendulum, and the answer is confirmed. You can, as mentioned in the "pitch"...have the client hold the pendulum for the answer as well.

This item is well made, very attractive, and is very good quality...for the asking price it would be a sound investment for those of us who dabble in the dark arts. Highly recommended...


Continued Success,
Dan
Message: Posted by: ddyment (Sep 24, 2013 11:24AM)
Dan wrote:[quote]Although the instructions say the pendulum can be freely handled by the "sitter" I personally wouldn't give it to the client to work, however, the pendulum can absolutely be 100% examined. There is nothing to hide...it's just something I wouldn't do. In real life...I don't give my pendulum to the client...so why do so with this pendulum...?[/quote]
OK, I'm confused. If I am going to hold the pendulum myself, why would I need a "special" one? I'm perfectly capable of making a non-gimmicked pendulum move in any direction, so what does this one provide that is different?
Message: Posted by: MentalistCreationLab (Sep 24, 2013 11:43AM)
[quote]
On 2013-09-24 12:24, ddyment wrote:
Dan wrote:[quote]Although the instructions say the pendulum can be freely handled by the "sitter" I personally wouldn't give it to the client to work, however, the pendulum can absolutely be 100% examined. There is nothing to hide...it's just something I wouldn't do. In real life...I don't give my pendulum to the client...so why do so with this pendulum...?[/quote]
OK, I'm confused. If I am going to hold the pendulum myself, why would I need a "special" one? I'm perfectly capable of making a non-gimmicked pendulum move in any direction, so what does this one provide that is different?
[/quote]

Hi Doug, the primary difference is that with this pendulum it can be handed to a participant and will move in the desired direction determined by the performer this is done without the knowledge of the spectator knowing that the pendulum is gaffed.

When I first developed this pendulum it was primarily used by handing it to a sitter and used to answer yes or no questions in a manner that looked natural. In other words it allowed me to answer a tough question with a yes, no or no answer in an exact manner of my choosing. Without relaying upon chance. Often I would use this forcing pendulum to avoid questions by using the spirits to provide the you should not do that or by avoiding the question entirely with an answer of donít know or no answer.

Hope this helps.
Message: Posted by: Michael Zarek (Sep 24, 2013 12:19PM)
[quote]
On 2013-09-24 01:07, docdazzal wrote:

Although the instructions say the pendulum can be freely handled by the "sitter" I personally wouldn't give it to the client to work

Continued Success,
Dan
[/quote]

What's the point of having it than?
I mean, from what I read you could just use a normal pendulum
Message: Posted by: docdazzal (Sep 24, 2013 12:19PM)
Thank You Doug...

Thank you...the Forcing Pendulum can absolutely be examined, handled and used by the sitter. The pendulum can be used for various types of forcing effects. It would be my personal preference to use the pendulum myself...in lieu of the sitter. That's all...


Continued Success,
Dan
Message: Posted by: Lar (Sep 24, 2013 12:40PM)
Allowing the client to handle the pendulum and [i]seemingly[/i] have total control over the outcome (whilst the performer [i]seemingly[/i] has none) has tremendous potential for a whole host of effects. It's a super fair force.

Assuming that the pendulum can be forced to rotate clockwise or anti-clockwise can it also be forced to swing forwards/backwards or left/right if desired; in essence a four-way force?

How quickly/easily/surreptitiously can the pendulum be 'set' to do your desired force?

Regards,
Lar.
Message: Posted by: CarlZen (Sep 24, 2013 04:46PM)
Guys I own this it's brilliant.. It happens in their hands ..
Message: Posted by: PhilDean (Sep 24, 2013 09:46PM)
[quote]
On 2013-09-24 17:46, CarlZen wrote:
It happens in their hands ..
[/quote]

Same with a normal pendulum...
Message: Posted by: Mind illusionist (Sep 24, 2013 10:37PM)
Whats the relibility of the force working when the pendulum is in the spectators hands? 100%?
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Sep 25, 2013 03:02AM)
[quote]
On 2013-09-24 22:46, PhilDean wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-09-24 17:46, CarlZen wrote:
It happens in their hands ..
[/quote]

Same with a normal pendulum...
[/quote]

The point is though, that you will know the way it will move before they use it and without sayingva word
Message: Posted by: george1953 (Sep 25, 2013 03:42AM)
Is this only available from Stevens Magic ?
Message: Posted by: Lar (Sep 25, 2013 02:18PM)
[quote]
On 2013-09-24 13:40, Lar wrote:
Assuming that the pendulum can be forced to rotate clockwise or anti-clockwise can it also be forced to swing forwards/backwards or left/right if desired; in essence a four-way force?

How quickly/easily/surreptitiously can the pendulum be 'set' to do your desired force?
[/quote]

I'm surprised that no-one was able to answer my questions?

Lar.
Message: Posted by: MentalistCreationLab (Sep 25, 2013 05:30PM)
[quote]
On 2013-09-25 04:42, george1953 wrote:
Is this only available from Stevens Magic ?
[/quote]

Hi George, for the most part is is only available through Stevens Magic Emporium (or I should say the next Nelson Enterprises since they carry many exclusive items for the working mentalist) with the exception of about a dozen that I have produced for an upcoming lecture and a few others held for friends and so forth. Hope this answers your question.

Lar PM'ed you.
Message: Posted by: Sparrowhwk (Sep 25, 2013 06:59PM)
MentalistCreationLab
It's good of you to PM Lar - but I think he asked the exact questions many of us have in our minds. Would you care to answer these questions for everyone, as I don't think the answers should reveal anything but the necessary information we would like before considering a purchase.

So, to keep things neatly together - here is a copy of the questions which cover the basic operation of the pendulum:

Allowing the client to handle the pendulum and [i]seemingly[/i] have total control over the outcome (whilst the performer [i]seemingly[/i] has none) has tremendous potential for a whole host of effects. It's a super fair force.

Assuming that the pendulum can be forced to rotate clockwise or anti-clockwise can it also be forced to swing forwards/backwards or left/right if desired; in essence a four-way force?

How quickly/easily/surreptitiously can the pendulum be 'set' to do your desired force?

Thanks
Message: Posted by: george1953 (Sep 25, 2013 08:22PM)
Thanks for the reply, as I am in Spain anything from the USA is just not viable, the shippingtends to be as much as what you are purchasing.
Message: Posted by: Lar (Sep 25, 2013 09:25PM)
I did get a reply from Bill (cheers Bill) in answer to my questions.

The pendulum can move left/right, forward/backward as well as clockwise and anti-clockwise. Reading between the lines I believe that the pendulum is a lot more versatile that I had first thought.

I've placed an order and will report back once I've had the opportunity to play around with the pendulum fully.

Best wishes,
Lar.
Message: Posted by: Mind illusionist (Sep 27, 2013 12:47AM)
I wish someone would answer my question lol. I didn't mean to be rude. was it something I said??
Message: Posted by: broothal (Oct 5, 2013 09:15AM)
Your question wasn't rude. The answer is no. After all, this is a pendulum which has a tendency to swing a certain way, due to some very clever work. It's still just a tendency, and depending on the strength of the spectators ideomotoric signals, it can of course swing any way a normal pendulum could (if not, it would be very easy to detect it was gimmicked)
Message: Posted by: Bard (Oct 7, 2013 08:46PM)
What's the asking price?

Is there a link to the Steven's listing? or video?
Message: Posted by: PhilDean (Oct 8, 2013 12:07AM)
[quote]
On 2013-09-25 04:02, IAIN wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-09-24 22:46, PhilDean wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-09-24 17:46, CarlZen wrote:
It happens in their hands ..
[/quote]

Same with a normal pendulum...
[/quote]

The point is though, that you will know the way it will move before they use it and without sayingva word
[/quote]

I suppose. I still think it's overkill but that's just me.
Message: Posted by: broothal (Oct 8, 2013 05:38AM)
If you hand them the pendulum while holding both the top of the chain and the weight, then you know which direction it most likely will swing in.

So, it's not like you can hand it to them and know if it will swing back and forth, or circular.

It's a clever piece of work, but I'm actually having a hard time putting it to use in a mentalism show.
Message: Posted by: Grail Quest (Nov 1, 2013 12:17PM)
I take it that the 'Wishcraft Psychic Pendulum' by Fantasma Magic is something else entirely?
http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S14777
Message: Posted by: Jamie D (Nov 1, 2013 06:37PM)
The one in the above link looks like a cheap toy where Bills looks a lot more professional IMO.

Darren
Message: Posted by: aalexander (Nov 2, 2013 12:02PM)
In the blurb on the website it sounds like it is a guaranteed force rather than a tendency, whereas here it seems less certain. Can anyone give a better idea of how reliable this is in practice and what it's like to use? And to be clear, not only can you set the direction but you can also have no direction and it becomes a regular pendulum, right?
Message: Posted by: broothal (Nov 2, 2013 03:15PM)
It's a pendulum. A nice looking pendulum. But it IS a weight suspended in a chain. That being said, of course it can swing in any direction. It is not a surefire force. It is gimmicked such that it probably will swing a certain way. I think it is very clever, and it is very well made, but it is not something I would use in my mentalism act.
Message: Posted by: wanda&viktor (Dec 19, 2013 01:54PM)
Does somebody want to sell one to us? It is out of stock...
Message: Posted by: horus1 (Dec 19, 2013 02:22PM)
Yup... out of stock. Someone please post if you happen to find another source for it. :)
Message: Posted by: broothal (Dec 20, 2013 02:06PM)
You can buy mine - either for money or we can swap with some other mentalism.
Message: Posted by: Michael Zarek (Feb 6, 2014 01:56AM)
Anyone know when (or if) it will be back in stock?
Message: Posted by: Dale A. Hildebrandt (Feb 6, 2014 09:35AM)
I don't understand this concept. I can get a pendulum to move in any desired direction in the client's hands. See Page 6 of "Pendulum Magic For Beginners" by Richard Webster. With a little thought, I've also been able to direct the pendulum without having to touch the client. If there's enough interest, I will write it up in Inner Thoughts.

Sincerely,
Dale A. Hildebrandt
Message: Posted by: Michael Zarek (Feb 7, 2014 05:06AM)
[quote]
On 2014-02-06 10:35, Dale A. Hildebrandt wrote:
I don't understand this concept. I can get a pendulum to move in any desired direction in the client's hands. See Page 6 of "Pendulum Magic For Beginners" by Richard Webster. With a little thought, I've also been able to direct the pendulum without having to touch the client. If there's enough interest, I will write it up in Inner Thoughts.

Sincerely,
Dale A. Hildebrandt
[/quote]

Would love to read your thoughts on that, I'm designing an effect and need to be able to force something with a pendulum (80-90% success rate is also fine)
Message: Posted by: Mr. Woolery (Feb 11, 2014 09:12PM)
Dale, I would also love to read your thoughts on this.

As to whether there will be more of these pendula, I did e-mail Bill Montana a month or so ago and he told me that the source for one of the parts of the pendulum was no longer able to make them, so he did not know when or if there would ever be more.

-Patrick