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Topic: Ring and Rope Kills
Message: Posted by: Motley Mage (Nov 23, 2013 05:48PM)
I just finished a walkaround gig for a local charity's outdoor movie night, and one of the biggest hits of the night was my very simple ring on rope routine (really just two phases from Aldo Columbini's Ringing Around Too). I used Aldo's rope but substituted a 3 inch chrome harness ring and went through popping the ring through the center of the rope followed by popping it onto the center again through a loose overhand knot in the rope. I did it probably ten or fifteen times for various small groups, and I have to say kids (especially 7-10 year olds) and grown ups alike dropped their jaws again and again. Simple, easy to carry, and truly magical.
Message: Posted by: Mary Mowder (Nov 23, 2013 07:25PM)
I couldn't agree more.

Ring and Rope is now my go to effect for when I'm asked to do a little something in Magic events.

I use a 3" brass harness ring which is a beautiful object with a nice heft and 3/4" Magician's Rope.

I have made a full routine up of bits and pieces but I really like that you can do one or two and interact with people rather than perform the whole routine in close quarters.

It plays well in many venues.

-Mary Mowder
Message: Posted by: bowers (Nov 23, 2013 11:32PM)
I love doing ring on rope while
the spectators hold the ends of
the rope and my hands are covered
while doing the magic.I first learned
this from a book by Mark Wilson.
This effect kill's when you borrow a
wedding band from a spectator.
Todd
Message: Posted by: 1KJ (Nov 23, 2013 11:42PM)
I generally carry two shoelaces with me, and Nick Einhorn's nest of wallets. Aldo's moves are great and one of his moves works very well with the nest of wallets. I also like Greg Wilson's moves. There is another fun move, and I can't remember who's it is where the string is held in your hand and moved to one finger. It jumps from being around one finger to another. I use two laces to do this as a do-as-I-do. I don't carry a ring, but rather use a borrowed finger ring or my own. the borrowed ring is really something with the next of wallets.
KJ
Message: Posted by: Theodore Lawton (Nov 24, 2013 12:00AM)
That's awesome. I have Ringing Around 2 and Still ringing. Lots of good stuff there.
Message: Posted by: Dr_J_Ayala (Nov 25, 2013 09:09AM)
You can do some truly magical things with Ring & Rope/Ring & String. I do a number of different versions and quite often, I combine those effects/routines with some rope/string-only effects from Enigma (by Paulino Gil and Luis de Matos) and Enclavor et Liberator (by Duraty).
Message: Posted by: Motley Mage (Nov 25, 2013 12:00PM)
I, too, often mix Ring & Rope with elements from my rope repertoire. I love the versatility, as Mary mentioned, of being able to to a single effect or combine in many ways to create routines that fit the moment and the situation.
Message: Posted by: sdmagic (Nov 25, 2013 07:16PM)
So... where can you get a great looking 3" Brass Ring for less than $5 ????

Go Here: http://www.reefscuba.com/brass_rings.htm

You're welcome.

sdmagic
Message: Posted by: MAV (Nov 27, 2013 06:39PM)
I use a long shoestring for ring on a rope. It is colorful plus rather thin which I find works well when you are handed a small ring with which to perform.
Message: Posted by: Bluesman (Nov 27, 2013 10:27PM)
[quote]
On 2013-11-25 20:16, sdmagic wrote:
So... where can you get a great looking 3" Brass Ring for less than $5 ????

Go Here: http://www.reefscuba.com/brass_rings.htm

You're welcome.

sdmagic


[/quote]

Thanks for the web site
Message: Posted by: Lawrence O (Jan 27, 2015 12:11AM)
It's probably not the ring and rope that "kills" but your pleasure in performing it that "kill" (what a horrible verb to refer to an audience that we are trying to enchant and be loved by)
Message: Posted by: funsway (Jan 27, 2015 02:55AM)
[quote]On Jan 27, 2015, Lawrence O wrote:
It's probably not the ring and rope that "kills" but your pleasure in performing it that "kill" (what a horrible verb to refer to an audience that we are trying to enchant and be loved by) [/quote]


There you go revealing one of the REAL secrets of magic -- two actually.

The magic that occurs in the mind of an observer can hardly by greater that that which you communicate from within yourself.

Of course, "fooling people" and "create a puzzle" or confusion are fairly easy. Magic is bit more difficult, or as easy as the smile in your eyes.

There is no doubt of your love of the art, SIr -- and magic does distill like dew from thy heart and pen.

and of the ring and rope? Why do these simple things focus attention and stir the soul? Methinks these effects may predate the Cups in truth

for a ring represents eternal truth and cyclical history and continuity and more ...

while the rope is feckless man, apparently weak and at loose ends, but strong in resistant against opposition or resolute in pulling towards a noble cause.

Ahh, the stories one can enchant with the bonding of the man and spirit, and man's failure to sustain the bond ...

or do we simple assist each person to remember who they really are -- and can be again?
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Jan 27, 2015 10:07AM)
Lawrence! Look what you've done! You've gotten Ken to wax eloquent! (Hee Hee!

But, seriously folks... (as the comedians used to say!!!)I

IDK where the term "kill" really started. Possibly, it came from "backstage argot" used by stage hands, or by stage managers TO stagehands. (e.g.: "OK boys, kill that set!"

The old vaudeville "good luck wish": "Break a leg", also sounds "negative" (especially to a dance act.)

I've heard "kill" used for years. But, in deference to Lawrence's feelings, I shall make an effort to stop using "kill".

KEN: Beautiful statement!

Only, I must now "repair to the Funk & Wagnall's" and check out "feckless"!!! --hee hee

Best wishes to "da bodaya"! (translation: "the both of you".)

O
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Jan 27, 2015 10:11AM)
Of course, I (me) get very "tired" of hearing "awesome"!
Message: Posted by: vinsmagic (Jan 27, 2015 11:03AM)
Here is my ring and string medley
this small routine can be done with any size ring
http://youtu.be/Jb2R8r29BZA


the moves are all mine
vinny
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Jan 27, 2015 11:34AM)
I got started using my AWESOME ring and rope routine back in the early '60s, when my late friend, Dennis Loomis, said, "SEPHALALJIA"! I think that I met the late Stewart James that year at Abbott's GTG. Then, another late friend, Jack Chanin got "blamed" for "introducing" the "Get Together Ring & Rope". He used a "square" ring. Some have said that Liko Pang had actually "invented" it, bur the basio principle is certainly from Stewart James. If I remember, the late Anverdi also included a ring and ribbon penetration in his lecture when I saw him at the '64 IBM in NYC. --but Anverdi used a thr**d to do the "work". I do remember asking Anverdi, at his booth, after the lecture, to clarify his handling for his ring and ribbon, but he refused. He said, "You wont do it anyway!" Well, someone there showed me what I needed to know.

Denny Loomis later showed me a very neat variation that he attributed to the late Walt Rollins. It doesn't kill (oops) magicians, but, it does make them say, "Hey!"

I now only use two rings for Walt's idea. I usta use five. It made a "pretty" sight when I "dealt" them out on the table! (Artie Kidwell--Cincinnati--loves it, He says it's AWESOME!

Since those days, Aldo, and I think, Daryl (many others, too, cf. Dr. Ayala's post above) )have added some darn good ideas. I just remembered that my late old friend Phil Willmarth wrote a whole book on rings and ropes!

Okito's "OHO" is a clever bit that is not often seen. Magic Inc. still sells it, I'm sure. It came with a 4" and a 6" ring. I found a 3and 5/16" that nests inside the 4" and is easier to carry. It's not AWESOME, but it is a nice, noisy, visual bit that I sometimes use to finish the routine.

Every one above on this thread has "endorsed" ring and rope routines. I should like to join their company!

P.S. >>>MOTLEY! I use the ring tossed into the "loose" overhand knot, also, but it follows throwing the ring, and tying the knot simultaneously, so that the ring is tied into the knot. Then, I remove the ring, and leave the knot still tied in the rope. THEN, I toss the ring back into the knot. This may sound AWESOME, but, we old Scouters know a little about knots, --and, we need to keep ahead of the Tenderfoot(s)! hee hee!

Sometimes I carry two ropes, one red, and one white. For the "encore" to ring and rope, I do a bit that I first saw Jack Hart do st a little convention in Californis. It's #43 in Karl Fulves' "Self Working Table Magic". I think the principle was originally in Stewart James manuscript, "Sefalalgia" (late 1930s?). It was in the PHOENIX magazine, too. Jack Avis is credited by Fulves for the routine done on a table under cover of a handkerchief. Jack Hart showed it to me with two ropes BEHIND his neck. I THINK that that's the way Stewart James showed it in SEFALALGIA". Anyway, although, it's not angle proof, behind the neck, it's good, --and, it does kill them!(OOPS AGAIN!

--YUP! RING AND ROPE "MEETS" >>ALL<< OF MY CRITERIA!
Message: Posted by: vinsmagic (Jan 27, 2015 01:40PM)
Dennis was a GOOD FRIEND OF MINE about a month before he passed I asked him for his ring and rope vhs tape . he sent me it on dvd his dvd on ropes is the very best,, I sure miss him
vinny
;
Message: Posted by: Motley Mage (Jan 30, 2015 08:26AM)
Thank you all for bringing this back up. I do agree with Lawrence that "killing" the audience is a harsh phrase, and I don't really use it often. And I also agree that the best magic--the stuff that delights the audience most--is the magic we ourselves watch happen in our hands and share in the amazement. Ken's poetic addendum actually has me thinking about the routine in a new light as well, Dick & Vinny, thanks for sharing your own work & your memories. Anything anyone has to share on ring & rope (publicly or privately) is always appreciated. I carry it everywhere and would love to learn more.

David (Motley Mage)
Message: Posted by: vinsmagic (Jan 31, 2015 09:02AM)
Hi Dave contact Glenn Morphew he has a teriffic routine with a 4inch ring and rope that he sells
you can find nim here on the Café
vinny
Message: Posted by: Threecard (Feb 20, 2015 08:23PM)
[quote]On Jan 31, 2015, vinsmagic wrote:
Hi Dave contact Glenn Morphew he has a teriffic routine with a 4inch ring and rope that he sells
you can find nim here on the Café
vinny [/quote]
Hey Vinny thank you for the lead. I was able to find that routine along with a bunch of other great looking DVD's on Glen's web site
https://sites.google.com/site/glennmorphew/magicians-only
Lots of good video demos too!
Message: Posted by: wally (Feb 26, 2015 04:09PM)
Would these small brass ring pass for a finger ring.http://www.reefscuba.com/brass_rings.htm
Message: Posted by: the fritz (Apr 18, 2015 10:01PM)
[quote]On Nov 25, 2013, sdmagic wrote:
So... where can you get a great looking 3" Brass Ring for less than $5 ????

Go Here: http://www.reefscuba.com/brass_rings.htm

You're welcome.

sdmagic [/quote]

Got one from here a month or so ago but sadly,they have changed their site and I no longer see these. Still easy to find on ebay though. Ring on rope (harness ring, not finger ring) is easily my favorite trick but I find it challenging to keep it pure, short and sweet. I am always tempted to add too many phases. I am curious to know if you still perform this regularly, Motley Mage, and how your routine has evolved since your original post a year and a half ago.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Apr 24, 2015 04:59AM)
Hi Fritz!

Yes! --Keeping it "short & sweet"!!!

As I mentioned in January (this thread) I started playing with ring & rope in the early '60s. I "blame" my dear old friend, the late Dennis Loomis, who left us two years ago this week, for getting me started with ring & rope.

The late Stewart James, who first published SEFALALJIA in his "spirit cabinet" routine (late '30s, I believe) must also share some of the "blame"!

Denny first showed me Stewart's Sefalaljia with shoelace, safety pin, and ring. I was "hooked"! Next came Jack Chanin's ring on rope (Jack did "it" with a square "ring") Liko Pang was doing the same move almost simultaneously. (probably, "parallel thought") Then Denny passed along the late Walt Rollins "ultra sneaky", and "automatic" five rings off simultaneously!

Then, Clifton, and Grismer (and one more "ring" magician, whose name has momentarily escaped me) got my attention! Now, I was REALLY 'hooked'!

Methods! routines! big rings! small rings! finger rings! "ring things" (Bob King) ETC.!!!

Jay Marshall always said, "When you get the act "set", START EDITING!" And, Jay was right! But, it's not easy!

Fifty years later, and, I'm still "working on it"! (And, I haven't even mentioned ELLIS!!!)

Good luck Fritz!
Message: Posted by: Motley Mage (Apr 24, 2015 09:03AM)
Hey there--

Vinny, thanks again (as always) for pointing me to great material to consider & work on. Glenn's work is nifty, and I will likely be ordering his Alien Ring DVD as soon as I am back in a buying position. (Right now I have several pieces I am working on, plus my wife has me on re$tricted $hopping $tatu$ for $ome rea$on. B^)

The Fritz, I am really a hobbyist (though I am pretty serious and working toward more public gigs) but when I perform, I do still do ring & rope at every opportunity. I continue to carry it every day, and anytime someone wants to see something (if they haven't seen it before), that's my go-to. I still mostly do an abbreviated two-phase piece of Aldo Colombini's Ringing Around Too, though I am working on two different pop-on, pop-off moves to add. As both you and Dick said, I believe too many moves make the ring & rope overly complicated and "puzzling" in the worst sense. Its simplicity and clarity (a ring goes on a rope impossibly, a ring comes back off equally impossibly) is what makes it so stunning.
Message: Posted by: the fritz (Apr 30, 2015 01:56PM)
Dick, thanks for the references. As if I didn't already have enough to check out! You are one of the most helpful guys on here and I can't wait to buy your book when it is published. I have taken your advice and kept the routine short, to just 4 moves... On, off, on and then a "finale on" which uses (probably) one of the moves Motley Mage mentions from the Aldo Colombini routine where a loop is tied in the rope and the ring links on to it. The finale does have a rationale but the challenge is how to present the whole routine. I am thinking through and editing a presentation that is centered around me getting scammed by a "snake oil" salesman and I demonstrate what he showed me with this ring and rope. I love Pat Page's idea of an invisible hole in the rope, so that is the premise behind what was "shown" to me. I am trying to add some comedy to it with a very tongue-in-cheek approach but I am not sure what will be funny and what won't. It seems every time I perform, I get a laugh at a line that wasn't meant to be funny and certain lines that I was sure would be funny, end up flying by with no laughter. I guess it all evens out in the end but I don't feel like I know how to write comedy very well!

The moves I use are ones I came up with myself, except for the last move that came from Aldo. None of the traditional moves are used but I am positive others have come up with these moves way before I ever did, and I just haven't seen them on videos or in books yet. Guys like Flip and Aldo among many others have been so creative with this type of magic. I just love it so much and like you, Motley Mage, I carry my ring and rope in a little bag in my back pocket everywhere I go.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Apr 30, 2015 08:13PM)
Hi Fritz...

When I find a few "free" minutes, I'll PM you, or better yet, PM me your email address. It seems that every time I'm half way finished writing anything very long via PM, "it" disappears into cyber space. And, at my age, that can mean a half hour or more of typing has vanished. (As I age, my typing skills are vanishing, too!

I worked with Aldo on a weekend convention evening show in either St. Louis, or Kansas City (I can't remember which!)about 20 years ago. We didn't get an opportunity to discuss ring and rope bits, but, I've heard he had some good stuff.

I'm curious about throwing a ring into a LOOP. Did you intend to write KNOT? (A LOOP is formed when the working end of a rope crosses the standing part. It is the "beginning" of most knots.

I "throw" a LOOP, and simultaneously throw the ring into the loop which causes the loop to become an "overhand knot" with the ring "in" the knot. Then, I pull the ring off, leaving the overhand knot. I open up the knot to about 8" and toss the ring back into the knot. I've never seen anyone else do the first part of the bit. (maybe that's what Aldo does in his routine???)

On things like ring and rope, I made a list of all the possibilities that I could DO. Then, I tried various combinations of, for example, 3 "moves", to see how well they "played" to people. Finally, I selected the bits that played best, and routined them. (I didn't "throw away" the bits that didn't "make it" into the working routine. (I'm a Depression raised kid! (and, also a "disciple" of Jay Marshall!) THROW NOTHING AWAY! because, someday, you may find a use for it!!!

I do a little with a finger ring--nothing really different. Trouble is, the "newest move", I learned in '85. I can't remember which move came from Clifton, from Grismer, or Nelson!!!!They work better with a colorful shoelace.

The "five ring" Walt Rollins Sefalaljia bit above is especially good as a single trick for walkaround. Denny showed it to me almost 50 years ago. I've never seen anyone else do it. Well, I did pass it along to a few friends and THEY do it.
Message: Posted by: Theodore Lawton (Apr 30, 2015 09:43PM)
I love ring and rope. I think it's very magical and have written what I think is a fun routine for it.

But for some reason I am a flop with it. All the other magic I perform gets great reactions, but kids don't seem to find this magical. They'll say, you're just tying special knots.

Adults seem... amused, maybe.

I really don't get it. When I first started PRACTICING the moves I found them incredible. It was like I was experiencing the magic as I learned it. And yet it seems people don't find it half as amazing as I do.

Wah

:pout:

So I never do it.
Message: Posted by: the fritz (Apr 30, 2015 09:54PM)
Thanks, Dick! I will pm you my email address. The loop I mentioned is the beginning of an overhand knot. It isn't tightened, just left with about a 2 1/2 to 3 inch loop. The brass ring I use is either 2 1/2 or 3 inches depending on the audience. Sometimes I use a 4 inch ring as well but not often. For this move, the ring isn't tossed. It is pulled through the loop. Aldo does it on Ringing Around Too. He has a dvd on it but it is also on The Essential Aldo Colombini set from L&L. That is where I first saw it. The variation I do comes from Apocalypse volume 13, no. 6 (page 1792 in the yellow bound volume).

Your move sounds awesome. It is definitely more than what Aldo does. Maybe they have similar mechanics.

I have had similar experiences in the past, Theodore. That is what keeps me working on it!
Message: Posted by: the fritz (Apr 30, 2015 10:36PM)
Oops... I meant your move sounds "AWESOME" ;)
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (May 1, 2015 07:46AM)
Theodore...Sometimes it's a matter of putting the props on the shelf for awhile, and letting the routine "pickle". I've noticed over the years when I was developing material, that I was, sometimes, "too close" to the problem! (Subjectivity vs Objectivity!) Perhaps a month or more later, I would pick up the prop(s) and try again. --and, "it" worked! When this happened, I would think, "Why didn't I think of this, before?"

(Nemo judex in causa sua--No one is a judge in his own case) Just talking about it with another magician (here, for example)can give you a fresh viewpoint.

Or, seeing someone else performing a similar trick or routine, may stimulate your thinking. or give you a fresh viewpoint about such things as timing when you do a "move", or deliver the punch line of a gag.

One of the major problems that the "average" magician has, is that he doesn't have a director! In the theater, there is always a director, whose objective viewpoint and technical knowledge, can help the actor to deliver the "line" more effectively. Some of us were fortunate enough to have a qualified mentor, who, at times, was also a director.

Remember the old dealer ads!? "Fool your friends! Works itself! No practice needed!" HA!

I was extremely fortunate, as a youth to meet some successful professional magicians who could (via the US Mail, in many cases!)helped with the technical points (e.g.: sleights)and an agent who changed my thinking regarding presentation, with one question:; "Can you make 'em laugh?"

I had been (at 19!!!) trying to be suave and debonair! I was doing a "look at how cleverly I can do these things" act.) I could do white glove card fan productions, the Downs p*lm (with both hands) and the multiplying balls that made the magicians in Ring 103, sigh! I even had white tie and tails!

The agent gave me a "try out" date. I did OK. But, he asked, "Can you make 'em laugh?" I said, "I think so." He said, "Make "em laugh, and I'll get you work." I did, and he did.

As always, it's not the prop, or the routine, it's the presentation! (and, presentation is more than just the physical performance, and the lines we deliver!) Remember the old advice? "It's not WHAT you do, it's HOW you do it.

For years, I've opened with the color changing silk (dye tube). I had the sleights and the timing down 100%, The kids liked it. BUT, I could not find the right line to close it and get the APPLAUSE, I got applause, but, not APPLAUSE! One day, on a jump to the next town, I had a "stupid stroke of genius". I tried a different line, that, I had suddenly thought of. "Instant" (?) success! I got a big laugh, AND, APPLAUSE! That line sets the tone for the whole show. Don't give up!
Message: Posted by: Theodore Lawton (May 2, 2015 02:46AM)
Alright!
Message: Posted by: Theodore Lawton (May 2, 2015 10:12AM)
My post knee surgery reply may have been a little brief.

Let's try, "Alright, I won't give up, and thanks for your advice!"

Thanks again Dick!
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (May 3, 2015 09:41AM)
Yer most welcome!

"Verb. sap. sat." >>> Don't plan on going square dancing for a few weeks!
Message: Posted by: Theodore Lawton (May 7, 2015 05:08AM)
Do any of you have a preference for your rings and ropes?

I was using the colored plastic rings and colored ropes that came with the sets I ordered from Colombini Magic, but then I switched to a 5" metal linking ring and plain white rope. I thought these might look more "normal." Maybe I'm overthinking it?
Message: Posted by: funsway (May 7, 2015 07:54AM)
Years ago I used a silk scarf tied in loop by a spectator as the "ring"

This worked so well I used a long chain instead of a rope.

Somehow, the stories I told became more meaningful or enchanting.
Message: Posted by: Theodore Lawton (May 9, 2015 05:17AM)
Well I definitely have my excitement back for ring and rope! Thanks to Dick's advice and a little creative thinking I've combined rope through neck with a short ring and rope routine that finishes with a CnR rope.

I'm such a dunderhead for never thinking of combining these before! Maybe I couldn't see the forest for all the ropes. What a great way to combine tricks into a flowing, fun routine.

It's the opportunity to talk with my friends here at the Café that make me so thankful for it as a resource. I'm always learning something from the more experienced magi.

I can't wait for my next hospital visit to try this out!

Theodore-

:hotcoffee:
Message: Posted by: Theodore Lawton (May 18, 2015 09:44PM)
I visited the children's hospital today and did my 5 phase ring and rope routine sans the rope through neck and the CnR rope; those parts aren't quite ready yet.

But the ring and rope went great! Thanks for all the help Dick!
Message: Posted by: Motley Mage (May 22, 2015 07:55AM)
Huzzah! Sometimes we have so many tools we don't know what to build with them.