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Topic: Magnetic casino style dice
Message: Posted by: Merenkov (Feb 5, 2014 10:24AM)
In a recent Stevens Magic catalog, they advertise magnetic cobalt dice. These are transparent, casino-style dice. A little pricey at $195 for a pair, but such things are probably hard to make. Anyone know of any other sources? I'd really like just one, as I'd like to see if it would work with a chopped dice cup.
Message: Posted by: splice (Feb 5, 2014 10:53AM)
Try David Malek or Gamblingcollectibles.com, they might be able to help out.

I doubt you're going to get them for $20 though.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Feb 5, 2014 11:13AM)
Maybe Jeff could be of some help too? (ExpertMagician here)
Message: Posted by: Marlin1894 (Feb 5, 2014 05:41PM)
I don't believe that you are going to find that kind of a cube, at a price you are willing to pay, to use in a chop cup routine. Even solid color 3/4" razors with flush pips, which look much better than drugstore dice and are obviously easier to load than the clear cubes, will cost you. If you can find them.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Feb 5, 2014 07:19PM)
I don't believe there's enough "gaff" on board such that an actual mag die intended for use on a craps table or dice drop would to stick to a chop cup.

Even for table use, unless they're ridiculously gaffed such that they're a novelty - they're only [i]a percentage gaff[/i].....not even designed to do what they do every single time they're thrown.

If they were ridiculously gaffed such as noted above, then they'd be a regular chop cup die available from your local magic store!
Message: Posted by: Marlin1894 (Feb 5, 2014 09:10PM)
[quote]
On 2014-02-05 20:19, silverking wrote:
I don't believe there's enough "gaff" on board such that an actual mag die intended for use on a craps table or dice drop would to stick to a chop cup.

[/quote]

You might be surprised. Little magnets are pretty strong nowadays. But then again you may be right. Either way Merenkov it could be a tough find, sorry to say. What are you trying to do with it anyway? What's the idea of the routine you are working on?
Message: Posted by: Merenkov (Feb 6, 2014 04:50PM)
Thanks everyone for your input. I'll probably try to talk Stevens Magic into bringing a few of these along next time our paths cross at a convention. As someone mentioned, if one has a strong enough magnet in a chopped dice cup, it might just be enough to attract one of these magnetic casino dice. Marlin, in answer to your question, the idea is to perform a little dice stacking with my casino dice, and be able to seamlessly transition to a chop cup type routine with the gimmicked die. I do this already using some gimmicked drugstore-style dice, but those are harder to stack. And I've always been enamored by the idea of a chopped casino die because of the extra layer of deception (it's transparent!).
Message: Posted by: jackouille07 (Feb 6, 2014 05:34PM)
Merenkov, I've send you a PM...
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Feb 7, 2014 01:17AM)
I have dozens of magnetic casino dice and virtually all of them will stick to a strong enough magnet (even a small one if it's a neodymium/strong magnet).

The problem will be finding a chop cup with a magnet that strong. You'll probably have to build it yourself or have it made for you.

Jason
Message: Posted by: silverking (Feb 7, 2014 08:54AM)
Just to clarify, I said in my post above that a [i]magnetic casino die[/i] likely [i]wouldn't stick to a chop cup[/i].
Because I offered no language that would imply otherwise, my reference was to a normal chop cup.

I didn't say a magnetic casino die [i]wouldn't stick to a magnet[/i].

If you put a [i]big enough magnet[/i] in anything, then a mag casino die will stick to it.

Rant over.
Message: Posted by: Merenkov (Feb 7, 2014 12:34PM)
Jason, would you mind revealing the source for your magnetic casino dice?
Message: Posted by: silverking (Feb 7, 2014 02:45PM)
[quote]
On 2014-02-07 13:34, Merenkov wrote:
Jason, would you mind revealing the source for your magnetic casino dice?
[/quote]
Like the scene in Breaking Bad where Walt says to Skyler [i]"I am the guy who knocks on the door"[/i].....Jason [b]is[/b] the guy who knocks on the door!

Sorry, couldn't resist the (bad) parable, all to say that the best gaffed dice in my collection were sourced - from Jason!
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Feb 7, 2014 02:49PM)
Silver,

Hope it didn't read like I was contradicting you. When I wrote my response it was in support of what you were saying. Maybe I didn't make that clear.

Jason

PS: Merenkov - I responded to your PM regarding same.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Feb 7, 2014 03:26PM)
All good Jason, I should have stated simply that I thought a [i]regular mag die[/i] probably wouldn't stick to a [i]regular chop cup[/i] and just left it at that.
Message: Posted by: Merenkov (May 8, 2017 02:59PM)
Okay, so three years after my original post, I bought a pair of magnetic translucent dice (that were made by legendary gaffed-dice maker Junior Hinson). They're beautiful, but as silverking warned, there's not enough magnetic attraction to work in my chopped dice cups (and I tried several). As Jason mentioned, I'd probably have to have a special cup made to pull this off. So anyway, I now have the pair up for sale in the "Tricks & effects for sale" forum...
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (May 10, 2017 04:26PM)
But Merenkov. If this is something that you still would like to be able to do at somepoint in time. Why not keep ahold of the dice and wait untill you can have the needed gaffed dice cup custom made for you?
Message: Posted by: Merenkov (May 11, 2017 05:56PM)
[quote]On May 10, 2017, RS1963 wrote: If this is something that you still would like to be able to do at somepoint in time. Why not keep ahold of the dice and wait untill you can have the needed gaffed dice cup custom made for you?[/quote]
After years of searching, I finally tracked down a chopped dice cup made by Pressley Guitar (I believe Pressley actually had these made by Bill Gusias). I'm partial to it, and I've never been able to find anyone that could make one that's even close to its quality. So rather than sacrifice the cup for one with a stronger magnet, I think I'll just give up on the magnetic casino dice idea...
Message: Posted by: fastjack711 (May 12, 2017 05:15PM)
If you want juice craps get in touch with me ,no problem any type you want is available, including birds eye,, thanks , fast jack
Message: Posted by: fastjack711 (May 13, 2017 05:43AM)
When using magnetic dice , especially if they were made by junior ,it isn,t the dice that are the problem but the type of magnet you are using and how you use the magnet . Remember, a magnet only has so much flux area and you must adjust to that, my new web-page will be up and running in about a week and I will be glad to enlighten you. https://www.fastjack711.com/
Message: Posted by: Merenkov (May 13, 2017 11:38AM)
Fastjack, how hard would it be to have a set of translucent dice made, not for a juiced table, but for a chopped dice cup? As I mentioned before, I have a chopped dice cup made by Bill Gusias...
Message: Posted by: fastjack711 (May 14, 2017 12:07AM)
Don't waste your money on neodymium unless you want to break a finger or pick up a car. I have no clue what a chop cup is , explain the application to me and I will direct you to the proper rare earth material. As far as the dice being made, no problem. I am not very familiar with these magic web- sites , can you email or talk to me privately.Any dice can be magnetized. https://www.fastjack711.com/
Message: Posted by: Nikita (Dec 5, 2018 06:18AM)
Very nice routine from Derren Brown with magnetic dices https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAJHUv2JS7w
Message: Posted by: tommy (Dec 5, 2018 07:33AM)
Our only experience with magnetic dice was with Backgammon, where the hustler straps large powerful magnets to the knees and raises them underneath the table. As I recall the dice used here were opaque and probably not too difficult to make. The equipment was hired and the hustlers actually lost because they did not know what they were doing.
Message: Posted by: Gamblingman007 (Dec 5, 2018 07:55PM)
Was magnetic juice dice easily spotted by really good players in the backgammon games that you played in or was around?
Message: Posted by: Gamblingman007 (Dec 5, 2018 08:03PM)
[quote]On May 8, 2017, Merenkov wrote:
Okay, so three years after my original post, I bought a pair of magnetic translucent dice (that were made by legendary gaffed-dice maker Junior Hinson). They're beautiful, but as silverking warned, there's not enough magnetic attraction to work in my chopped dice cups (and I tried several). As Jason mentioned, I'd probably have to have a special cup made to pull this off. So anyway, I now have the pair up for sale in the "Tricks & effects for sale" forum... [/quote]

You have to get your dice re-magnetized. Not using juiced dice periodically de-magnetize them or make them very weak.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Dec 5, 2018 08:15PM)
It was only once. The mark was John Spencer the world champion snooker player and he didnít spot it. Mind you he suffered from double vision.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Spencer_(snooker_player)

I donít think the gaffed dice were used constantly but rather switched in and out by the way.
Message: Posted by: Gamblingman007 (Dec 5, 2018 08:30PM)
Is juice dice relating to backgammon that noticeable while playing, meaning can an average player realize that something is not right thatís going on? Forgive me if Iím asking you a stupid question, itís only because I donít know how to play the game, Iíve only seen it played while hustling at playing card games. I know definitely that I can switch the dice being played on any body playing against me.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Dec 6, 2018 07:42AM)
If one gets too lucky, one will ďwake the deadĒ as they say. A move can be undetectable physically but a good backgammon player like a good poker player or whatever will notice unusual patterns instinctively and get sus if he does. One needs to be a good player and then all one needs is a small edge. When somebody has seemed too lucky we have seen players grab the dice and check them in straight backgammon games.
Message: Posted by: Gamblingman007 (Dec 19, 2018 01:33PM)
Tommy thank you for your advice. Youíve always given me good advice since Iíve been here. Thanks again.
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Dec 19, 2018 01:49PM)
A common way of cheating with mag dice or weight at backgammon is to give the sucker the gaffs! One die pulls low numbers and the other pulls high numbers. The sucker gets far fewer doubles than chance alone would dictate. Since backgammon is essentially a race, that's enough in the long run. Of course, all the issues with switching them in and preventing detection apply just as they do when the cheater is using the gaffs.

Jason
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Dec 19, 2018 09:29PM)
[quote]On Dec 5, 2018, tommy wrote:
Our only experience with magnetic dice was with Backgammon, where the hustler straps large powerful magnets to the knees and raises them underneath the table. As I recall the dice used here were opaque and probably not too difficult to make. The equipment was hired and the hustlers actually lost because they did not know what they were doing. [/quote]

They do make Juice Joints that are actually built into a backgammon set and controlled via remote control. Obviously, they are more expensive than strapping a permanent to each leg to control polarity.
Message: Posted by: RayLogan (Mar 14, 2019 12:52PM)
I'm hoping by the middle of April (maybe sooner) to release my chopped dice in two sizes: 19mm approx. 3/4 inch and also 25mm almost one inch. Red or white opaque. They are very very strong and will hold to chop cups. The one problem is your chop cup gimmick could either have north or south poles on the inside, so the die will either stick or repel. A set could be made with one having north on the attraction side and the other die south on the attraction side, plus a non-gimmicked one. If you are getting a custom made cup you could send the die to make sure it attracts. I'll post in the for sale section when they are available.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Mar 14, 2019 10:51PM)
Thanks, that sounds interesting.

Backgammon precision dice used by the money players here are normally 13mm or so. https://gammongames.uk/precision-dice

Note they are round-cornered.

The problem with the gaffed sets I have seen is both dice stop rolling at the same time which looks unnatural.
Message: Posted by: RayLogan (Mar 14, 2019 11:48PM)
[quote]On Mar 14, 2019, tommy wrote:
Thanks, that sounds interesting.

Backgammon precision dice used by the money players here are normally 13mm or so. https://gammongames.uk/precision-dice

Note they are round-cornered.

The problem with the gaffed sets I have seen is both dice stop rolling at the same time which looks unnatural. [/quote]


Hi, The dice I am making aren't loaded to roll a number, they are loaded to attach to a chop cup or devise outside of the cup. :)
Message: Posted by: tommy (Mar 15, 2019 12:28AM)
Yes, I was not talking there about the dice you are making.

I don't know any game where they use 25mm dice - which is about the size of my doubling cube.
Message: Posted by: RayLogan (Mar 15, 2019 01:05AM)
[quote]On Mar 15, 2019, tommy wrote:
Yes, I was not talking there about the dice you are making.

I don't know any game where they use 25mm dice - which is about the size of my doubling cube. [/quote]

OK, sorry Tommy :) Ya 25mm dice are big, almost one inch along a side! Great visual for a chop cup though...
Message: Posted by: MaXiMoN (Apr 12, 2020 07:49AM)
Greeting
I need an affordable normal looking (non metallic) dice that will work with a normal chop cup
Thanks for the help
Message: Posted by: Merenkov (Apr 12, 2020 10:15AM)
I started this thread 6 years ago, and finally found what I was looking for. Martin Lewis sells a trick called Die-Namic, which includes a couple of magnetic dice (and one ungimmicked). It's a great trick, you can find it for $30 at various magic shops. But he also occasionally makes a premium version out of razor-edged casino-style dice (white with black spots). They are incredible - the gimmicked dice are indistinguishable from the non-gimmicked die. They aren't the transparent-style casino dice, but I actually like them better. He sells this set for around $95 (remember you are getting two gimmicked dice). They of course work for Die-Namic, but the real bonus for me was that they worked with my chopped dice cup. Score! The catch is that he only occasionally makes these sets, so you have to contact Martin directly and just wait until he decides to make more...
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Apr 12, 2020 11:22AM)
Thanks for the "heads up".