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Topic: Walking Knot by Pavel
Message: Posted by: magic-markus (Jan 4, 2004 03:37AM)
Hi

Here is the dealer text from Hank Lee:

[quote]
Pavel's Super Walking Knot is one of the most impossible rope tricks ever invented. It won the FISM Invention Prize Award and is now used by such working pros as Mike Caveney and Harry Anderson!

Tie a 20 foot length of rope between two chairs. Ask a member of the audience to tell you where to stop as you move a scissors along the rope. Cut the rope at the chosen spot and tie the two pieces together. Now, slowly slide the knot down the rope, untie it and show the rope cut at this new location!

Immediately repeat the effect. Retie the rope, move the knot to another position, untie the knot and the rope will be cut at the new spot!

This can be repeated as often as you wish. Anywhere on the rope!!

A very special rope makes the miracle possible. The rope is made by hand and will last forever.

The list of magicians now using this effect goes on and on. Ali Bongo; Piet Forton; Gaetan Bloom; Paul Daniels; Richard Ross and more and more. Why not add yourself to the list?

Super Walking Knot comes with the special rope and Pavel's routine. It's not inexpensive, but it is one powerful effect!
[/quote]
I want now to know [b]what is the difference between this one which is $240 and the other version which is only $75? Is it the same principle or an other method[/b]?

Thanks,
Markus
Message: Posted by: Ron Reid (Jan 4, 2004 07:24AM)
Hi Markus:

The principle is the same on both ropes. It's the special rope that does it for you.

The more expensive version allows you to slide the knot to just about any place you want and then untie it there. The cheaper version allows you to move it to only three or four different positions on the rope.

Ron
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Jan 4, 2004 07:31AM)
The rope is the same diameter and length in both tricks. The gimmicks used are the same in both tricks. The construction, as would be expected from Pavel, is superior in both versions

However, as Ron has pointed out, the inexpensive version only allows you to cut the rope in three places. That’s it! It is more of a bluff as you must “force” the area to be cut then move the knot to one of the other two available areas (again no real free choice). The expensive version allows you a true free choice (the rope has 13 gimmicks!). This is a case of you get what you pay for.
Message: Posted by: Lou Hilario (Jan 4, 2004 08:57AM)
If you are doing the walking knot in a silent act, you could opt for the cheaper one. But if you want audience participation, use the more expensive one. Or if you are skilled in sewing, you could buy the cheaper version and add a few more gimmicks yourself. :rolleyes:
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jan 5, 2004 01:44PM)
Or, with an assistant do the original Paul Curry version. A true KILLER. First time I saw this done, by Doug Henning... I was FLOORED.

Siegfried and Roy have used this as well.

Steinmeyer has a third method in print somewhere.

:firedevil:
Message: Posted by: magic-markus (Jan 5, 2004 04:22PM)
Thank you very much for your answers.

Markus
Message: Posted by: Magicduck (Jan 7, 2004 07:06PM)
Personally, I feel that the original rope, the expensive one looks better. The certain somethings I think are less noticeable when there are so many of them...sort of blend into one big something...verses the other one with so many fewer. However, the extra cost may not make it worthwhile to spend that much more. You need to keep this thing really, really clean too or it can make the gimmicks more obvious.

quack
Message: Posted by: Lou Hilario (Jan 9, 2004 09:41AM)
You are right there on the gimmicks getting dirty. A lot of stage floors are dusty. But you can wash them. This trick is really worth it for my act. I use it before my special rope act escape finale.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jan 9, 2004 05:39PM)
The Steinmeyer version is available from Magic Inc., last priced at $35. It is not a gimmicked item. You cannot do the audience stop thing and it cannot be repeated over and over. It uses more of the performer ability to handle assistants.

It was published in Steinmeyer's lecture notes, I obtained from him some years back. It is more practical to buy this as your will search forever to find the props. I have not found it yet in any of our stores in the area.

See topic "Gimmicked Knife for Rope Trick" in this string. It tell you all you need to know about the Unexpected Knot by Steinmeyer.

Bill :fyi:
Message: Posted by: limkris (Feb 17, 2004 07:14AM)
I have some difficulties making the fake knot in the original Walking Knot by Pavel. Is there any video source that teaches this knot?
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Feb 17, 2004 11:13AM)
No video that I know of but what you need to do is [b]just keep working on it[/b] and [b]do not look[/b] at the rope when you tie the knots... Talk over it. :donut1:
Message: Posted by: Magicol-1 (Feb 19, 2004 05:16AM)
Pete is dead on with his answer. It took me about two months to get it to look natural, just keep practicing.

M1
Message: Posted by: Brian Haagen (Feb 29, 2004 01:25PM)
I haven't seen this performed, but I really like the sound of the effect. I was curious as to how this effect is ended. I see that the knot is slid and apparently cut at different spots, but does the rope finally become restored at the end? How do you guys that present this close the effect? Also, where can I see this effect being performed?
Message: Posted by: magicmanx (Mar 18, 2004 01:39PM)
At the end of the effect—which I must say is one of the best stage magic rope illusions I have ever performed—you just restore the rope. My billing is "seeing is NOT believing" so I tend to end after restoring the rope saying, "So once again you saw the rope was cut... or is it a case of seeing was NOT believing?" and take my applause. Whatever you do though, PRACTICE< PRACTICE<PRACTICE until you can do this effect with your eyes closed...and I am not joking!!

At present I haven't found any sites demoing this effect, which when you look at the strength of the illusion that's surprising. First time I saw it was on a Paul Daniel's TV show and at the time, blew me away!!
Message: Posted by: Lou Hilario (Mar 19, 2004 09:12AM)
First time I saw this was in one of Doug Henning's TV specials. He had two of his assistants holding the ends. He cut the rope, slid the knot and untied it.

That fooled me because I thought the secret was both assistants had big reel in their sleeves and they were just holding a piece of rope in their hands. Sometimes, we magicians make things so complicated only to find out how simple it really is.
Message: Posted by: Ron Reid (Mar 19, 2004 12:44PM)
Hello:

Concerning a video demonstration, you can buy a demo video directly from Pavel. Go to his website http://www.pavelmagic.com and click on the "products" tab. He had a video for about $20 that demonstrates a lot of his products.

BTW, I ordered some custom rope from him earlier this month, and had it in my hot little hands in five days.

Ron
Message: Posted by: Bobcape (May 21, 2004 10:22PM)
I have a new Pavel's [i][b]Super Walking Knot[/b][/i] for sale [url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=69548&forum=76&5]here[/url]. Check it out.

Bob
Message: Posted by: Magictrickster (Jun 3, 2004 01:21PM)
Geoffrey Durham performed this effect on one of the best of magic shows shown on UK television around 1990, I'm not sure which one, but if you can get hold of it, the presentation of the effect is very good.

Cheers,
Brian
Message: Posted by: templemagic (Jun 4, 2004 05:50PM)
If you ever get a chance to see Jay Scott Berry perform this it is great. His presentation is really good. The trick is brilliantly made by Pavel and, if you can afford it, go for the more expensive one. It allows the trick to look more impressive.

Cheers,
TM
Message: Posted by: Jimmy Joza (Jun 5, 2004 11:57AM)
If money and/or space are an issue, then I would recommend the Junior Walking Knot (only six feet long and also three places to move the knot). You might also want to consider another trick by Pavel, the Phenomenal Rope trick described on Steven's Magic Emporium website:

[quote]
A very long piece of rope is cut in two-leaving a long and a short piece. These are tied together. The rope is held up with the knot at the bottom. Suddenly, the knot visibly jumps from the end to the center of the rope. The knot is untied showing the rope to be cut into two equal lengths. These are tied together and now, the knot visibly jumps from the center to the upper end of the rope. The knot is untied showing two pieces of rope-one short and one long. By pulling on the ends, the two pieces of rope are seen to stretch apparently equalizing in length. There are now two separate pieces the same length. Each rope is knotted and come down linked together. The two rings are tossed into the air and come down linked together. To finish, the knots are visibly untied. Amazingly, the two rings become one long single piece, the same as at the beginning.
[/quote]
You can see a couple of photos of this effect [url=http://www.stevensmagic.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=4545]on their site[/url]. I recently purchased this trick and have been looking at Pavel's video catalog to study his moves since they are smooth. Good luck!

Jimmy
Message: Posted by: The Great Smartini (Jul 14, 2004 12:53AM)
Does anyone out there have any suggestions for patter or music that goes along with the super walking knot...i'm thinking that my routine would be to do pavel's walking knot and then after looking all slick I would finish with professor cheers comedy knot routine...any thoughts?
Message: Posted by: Alym Amlani (Jul 14, 2004 11:59AM)
See this post:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=75853&forum=9&6

I'm actually in Vancouver as well and have just started playing w/ this trick..

a.
Message: Posted by: The Great Smartini (Jul 14, 2004 11:47PM)
Alym,

are you a member of the vancouver magic circle or the local sam's group...thanks for letting me know about this thread
Message: Posted by: Alym Amlani (Jul 15, 2004 01:02PM)
I am a member of the local VMC.
Pm'd you.
Message: Posted by: naturalturn (Jul 17, 2004 08:22PM)
I saw Goldfinger's (Jack's) presentation of the Walking Knot when he was touring Canada again with Murray Hatfield's show last year and like it very much.

It was performed to a very catchy piece of music and of course, had the 'Goldfinger' touch/moves!

naturalturn
http://www.raywongmagic.com
Message: Posted by: The Great Smartini (Jul 19, 2004 01:08PM)
Ray,

I'm not familiar with goldfinger (jack)... also, does the audience influence where the cut/knot is tied...i'm curious about the audience involvement in the trick when it is done to music
Message: Posted by: naturalturn (Jul 19, 2004 07:02PM)
"Goldfinger and Dove" have been around for decades and are one of the most respected stage acts in the world with awards too numerous to mention. They are also, from what I understand, one of the nicest couples in the business.

I can't recall details about his presentation but I believe a spectator is on stage briefly to direct him where to cut, and then escorted off shortly thereafter. Then the magic and music begins...

Ray
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jul 25, 2004 12:06AM)
Lou Hilario... Doug Henning's version (Paul Curry's actually) did use two reels. It was totally different than Pavel's method.
Message: Posted by: Terry Holley (Jul 25, 2004 11:30PM)
[quote]
On 2004-01-05 14:44, Pete Biro wrote:
Or, with an assistant do the original Paul Curry version. A true KILLER. First time I saw this done, by Doug Henning... I was FLOORED.
:firedevil:
[/quote]

Even though I understand you saw Doug perform this live Pete, those were some terrific days in the 70's when Doug was performing on those TV specials (even though things didn't always seem to go that well with all the effects)!

I remember the anticipation of wondering what he would come up with each show.

It floored me too when I saw it on the TV special. After seeing Doug perform the rope trick, I was so intrigued with it that I spent my lunch hours for a number of days drawing out the rope trick in an attempt to come up with the method!

Yet even though I know the Pavel and Curry effects are extremely powerful, my audiences are still stunned with the Simplex cut and restored rope!

Terry
Message: Posted by: Scott Ocheltree (Jul 31, 2004 12:09PM)
[quote]
On 2004-07-25 01:06, Pete Biro wrote:
Lou Hilario... Doug Henning's version (Paul Curry's actually) did use two reels. It was totally different than Pavel's method.
[/quote]

Actually only one reel is used. But an audience member gets to sign tags attached to both ends of the rope. The audience member also gets to cut and untie the rope, and is given the rope with the attached signed tags to keep at the end of the routine.

Anybody ever perform this live? Or is it really only suitable for TV? I have the manuscript and would like to try this in a suitable venue.
Message: Posted by: MagicbyCarlo (Jul 31, 2004 12:38PM)
I must agree with Terry Holley, while the walking knot is good, people seem to react just as well to a C&RR. Additionally it can be done inches away from audience members (I use 2 helpers in my rope routine) and the rope can be given to the helpers at the end of the effect. I call my routine "The erroneous perception of reality." In my opinion this is more practical for the platform and parlor performer than the Super Walking Knot.

For a musical piece on stage or with some distance from the audience the Super Walking Knot IS a well-made and good effect and I like the fact that you can show the pieces separated which is the weakness of the regular C&RR.
Message: Posted by: yanyak5 (Aug 3, 2004 08:07AM)
I have the simplified version, and I need to know whats the best way to present this? Music or Patter? Since I can only perform it 3 times, do I just move down the rope, jumping from one spot to the next? Whats the best way? Any Help is appreciated

-Thad
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Aug 7, 2004 06:05PM)
I would NOT do it three times. I would cut the rope, tie the knot and slide it to the other end, untie it and take your applause.

I don't see it as a music only effect. I think you need to just TALK AND SELL IT.

How impossible what you see is happening.
Message: Posted by: Alym Amlani (Aug 7, 2004 07:04PM)
Only 1 cut ???
I guess that really could work if done well...

Would make it quite a short trick for 175 USD :P
Message: Posted by: yanyak5 (Aug 7, 2004 11:07PM)
You right Pete. I don't feel its necessary to do it 3 times. It would make it seem like its a gimmicked rope. I feel I can sell it by just doing it once, but am still unsure about what to talk about. Hopefully it will come to me. Maybe I can do something with a silk as well? (have the silk penetrate the rope, etc?)

-Thad
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Aug 8, 2004 12:26AM)
Alym -- short ricks are fine if they are strong. You could do a rope routine with other effects, then switch for the Pavel rope.

Talkwise? Why not do one of two things. Fred Kaps used to just DESCRIBE what he was doing so the audience had a CLEAR description and could follow the effect... with a recap and sell at the end.

Senator Crandall would tell an absurd funny story as he did a rope trick, the story had nothing to do with the trick, but at the end you finish the story, get the laugh, then kill with the climax of the trick.

Think those two ways.
Message: Posted by: Julie (Aug 8, 2004 01:44PM)
A lot less expensive (and seldom seen) version of a baffling cut and restored rope effect is Bill Neff's--this used to be available from Abbott's in Colon, Michigan.
Message: Posted by: yanyak5 (Aug 8, 2004 10:11PM)
Good Idea pete. Recaping could possibly sell this. I was thinking of maybe something like a ring and rope effect as well. Do you think this could be done with the rope stretched across the stage? Any ideas where to find anything ring and rope effects that would work for this??


Julie, thanks for the suggestion! I will look for it!
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Aug 9, 2004 11:17AM)
I have never cared much to do ring and rope stuff, so I can't answer you.

Julie... shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... don't tell anybody about Neff's Miracle Rope.

I did this at an Abbott Get Together once and five minutes after the show they sold out of 'em. :kermit:
Message: Posted by: rosariorose9 (Aug 27, 2021 10:55AM)
Replies in the Café's various threads on this effect suggest that it is not suitable for close up. My question (which I haven't seen addressed) is would the gimmick(s) be visible with a parlor presentation? Thanks very much.
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Oct 11, 2021 10:28PM)
The gimmicks are well made and almost invisible even close-up. Howie Swartzman performed the Super Walking Knot at his booth at a convention and the gimmicks were not noticed.

I perform the Junior walking knot (the 6 foot version) as a parlor/bar-pub/small venue routine. I'm pretty much what John Novak called a two-meter magician. My audiences do get close and I am often almost surrounded. I've had no problem with using the Pavel prop. it plays well and the gimmicks go unnoticed (they are all but invisible). The rope is not static or hanging completely still at any point. It is constantly moving even if just a little. That aids in hiding the gimmicks.

An analogy would be a locking key. It is not totally invisible but a well made one goes unnoticed. Same here, it is well made and it goes unnoticed.