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Topic: Multiplying Ball Finish
Message: Posted by: James Adamson (Jan 4, 2004 05:46PM)
I use muliplying balls (Fakini-Yellow) in my manipulation act and I am not happy with the finish. Just doing a barehanded vanish of the last ball does not seem to be the answer, nor does the typical finish of an additional 4 balls in the other hand. I sort of like Tim Wright's finish which has a big ball that all the other balls go into (have not tried it out yet on an audience). I even thought about the last ball being thrown into the air changing to a yellow silk, but again I am not sure if this is a strong enough finish for this effect.

Maybe some Brainstorming feedback will help my mental block?
Message: Posted by: MikeJRogers (Jan 4, 2004 05:53PM)
After figuring out your performance character, theme etc. You might want to try yellow throw coils.

Good Luck,

Mike :wavey:
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Jan 4, 2004 06:12PM)
I will ask you what I ask all my students and people I teach acts and routines to. What is your act about on stage? What is your character when you are presenting the manipulative sequence? Is there a theme involved? What is your style like and your music?

Answers to some of these questions might better help us understand your act, your motivation and a little about your style. this will impact what makes sense in the act and what would be appropriate as an eneding for you.

Can you fill us in on a little more about your act and style? I would be happy to help you with ideas and suggestions.

Message: Posted by: James Adamson (Jan 4, 2004 08:04PM)
In my manipulation act I am dressed classic magician in stlye, my opener is a modified version of Tony Clark's vanishing cane to dove, but instead of the dove I use a full glass coke bottle, I then use Tony,s' Black & White Gloves to Streamer to Coke Bottle Production. I then remove my lapel rose to silk, split the silk, do Slydini tie with silk have knot disolve and produce 3rd coke bottle.

For a change of pace I then switch the coke bottle for a Nielson bottle and use Martin Lewis' Comedy coke routine.

Then instead of cards I elect to do the mulitplying balls to get back to a serious note.

I have a set of Cola Surprise Bottles (which can give the impression that up to 9 <nine> additional full cola bottles are produced <normally only use six>) and finish with a two-liter coke production via a Ken Reedy custom made square circle all set to upbeat instrumental music and thus I have an 8-9 minute complete routine.

I just gave away my whole act, but what the hay I'm not Jeff McBride or Tony Clark.

As you can see I am heavily influenced by Tony Clark and his misdirection production techniques, yet I was looking for that different approach that doing doves and cards.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Jan 4, 2004 09:53PM)
All of these are great sequences. My only question to you is why coke bottles and the formal tux? If your going this route, that is fine, but you need to make sure the theme is well thought out and makes sense to the audience.

Why a formal tux and then produce coke bottles? Are you working at a coke vendor? Is your character thristy and these coke bottles keep appearing? Are you a waiter perhaps? I think the character and theme need to be better related. If so, then it really starts to add so much more impact for the audience and makes it easier for the audience to understand and connect with your character.

Your coke idea is very clever and can really work well. I just feel strongly that you may want to re-evaluate the character and theme that is built around it. Have it make sense and have the character relate better.

If you would like some suggestions or ideas, I would be happy to relay them to you.

Message: Posted by: James Adamson (Jan 5, 2004 12:56PM)
Kyle & others,

I mistyped my dress, it is suit jacket with a tux shirt, not full tux with tails.

My orgin of the act did involve Coca-Cola Company and has been used for all my stage work as my opening trademark so to speak.

I have not devoleped it to a fit a actor type theme. That could be a idea to explore.

The one weak part of the act thru followup questionaries is the lack of a good ending for the multiplying balls. I would appreciate you or any others persons ideas.

Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jan 5, 2004 01:48PM)
John Booth's book, Marvels of Mystery, contains a great routine with a "cannonball" finish. I used it for years.

You toss each ball into a top hat, a burst of flame, and tip the hat and a ball, filling the hat comes out.

I used Golf Balls and Abbott's sold a hollow giant one that was perfect.

You could make one to match the Fakinis for sure.

Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Jan 5, 2004 02:44PM)
You could also throw one ball up and have it turn into a red silk. You open it up and it has the coke symbol on it. Then tuck into pocket.

Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jan 7, 2004 01:25AM)
You are trying to figure out what will work before you know "What you like and enjoy performing". Why not try a few ideas and then settle on the one you like?

The larger ball is a classic finish, as is the Flash four finale. You cannot go wrong with what works.

If you are trying to come up with something different, then work it out and try it before your available audiences.

Bill :magicrabbit:
Message: Posted by: abc (Jan 7, 2004 10:53PM)
Just an idea you could think about. Make a cylinder, drop the four balls into it and produce another coke bottle out of the cylinder.

I have always wondered what the point of multiplying balls is if you make four and then let them disappear again.
Its like producing a full-size car and then before someone can drive it you make it vanish again.
Good luck
Message: Posted by: boltt223 (Jan 8, 2004 05:50PM)
What I am currently using is; after producing multiple billiard balls (and I use the same color as you do) I drop them in my top hat, except for the last one. I do a vanish and appearence sequence then do a vanish toss. Pull the ball from the top hat and finishing with diminishing ball to confetti. :smiles:
Message: Posted by: FCpreacher (Jan 9, 2004 01:30PM)
Question: How does Kyle do that?! :hmm:
Message: Posted by: maylor (Jan 9, 2004 03:08PM)
FCpreacher - Do you mean endlessly coming up with good ideas???

Message: Posted by: FCpreacher (Jan 9, 2004 03:33PM)
That's exactly what I mean.
Message: Posted by: zombieboy (Jan 9, 2004 03:53PM)
Rememeber, a big finish is not always the answer. Sometimes an air of finality or punctuation is an excellent way to finish as well. However, it does depend completely on your style and routine.

Just my 2 cents.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Jan 9, 2004 04:24PM)
Thanks guys. I appreciate it. It was just a simple idea that would tie in nicely to the theme. I guess I just have a different way of looking at things. Call me "different" hehe. Just glad I can offer advice and suggestions to those who need them.

Message: Posted by: Magic_streak (Jan 31, 2004 12:24AM)
Kyle you really made me stop to think about my stage appearance as well. I really appreciate McBride's act where he wears different costumes and changes the mood of his music. First he portrays himself like a phantom or something then becomes a ghoul or witch then different types of demons using masks. Very interesting and imaginative. Perhaps we should work towards that!
Message: Posted by: abc (Jan 31, 2004 05:14AM)
I only joined a while ago and I have to say if there is one person so far that has really gotten my brain to work more creatively it is Kyle. Just that alone makes this site worthwhile. Thanxa lot your ideas are really excellent.
Message: Posted by: maylor (Jan 31, 2004 06:23AM)
Exactly!! Keep up the good work!!!!!!!!!!!
Message: Posted by: Jim Snack (Jan 31, 2004 07:12AM)
I'm agree with Kyle here. I love manipulative magic, but much of what I see is "visual bubblegum" with little overall thought to character, theme or other theatrical elements which can take an act to the next level.

Character is not something you develop only externally, say by putting on a certain costume. You can put on a clown wig, make up and big shoes and still not be a clown. True, costumes can help you get into character, but the basis for the character must come from some aspect of who you are. Developing a character is an organic process that involves removing external layers and revealing some truthful aspect of your personality.

Henning Nelms in Showmanship for Magicians, explores character development in great detail. It's worth studying. As is Maskelyne and Devant's "Our Magic," who talked about artistic principles of Unity and Consistency.

The classic manipulative magicians, Cardini for example, build acts that follow these principles. More modern acts, such as Tina Lennart's "Washer Woman" act, do the same. Furthermore we see the character undergo some sort of change or transformation during the course of the act - the washer woman discovering her beauty. Such character development makes it interesting to the audience.

Look at your act in its entirety and you will start to come up with ideas for specific moments within the act that are consistent with the overall picture you are trying to create. You might also want to get someone with theatrical experience to take a look at it for guidance.
Message: Posted by: maylor (Jan 31, 2004 12:47PM)
I've got some old notes some where that describle a flash 8 ball production followed by the appearance of a dove on top of the balls in the hand. Quite good if you're into doves I guess.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Jan 31, 2004 12:54PM)
Thank you for the kind words. I do appreciate it and hope that some of my ideas and suggestions have been a help to you. As Jim says, an act with just "magical bubblegum" doesn't do anything for your audience but givbe you a big head and impress yourself. There really is so much more you can add to any manipulative routine that will give your audiences more to get excited about. We should all strive to push ourselves more then we often do.

Thank you kindly! That is very nice of you to say. I hope my ideas have helped you. If you would like to talk about any of your own act or routine, please just let me know.

Message: Posted by: Magic_streak (Feb 1, 2004 01:57AM)
I have some thoughts I'll like to share with everyone here, since we are on the topic of stage character.
Although we should develop a character and develop our act into one filled with meaning, sort of like a stage play, we should not leave out the magic.

I've seen many acts where the magician puts in a lot of effort into the theme. He dresses himself up in great detail of a Santa Claus or a washerwoman but his magic is very limited. Of the three or so minutes on stage he only does a simple levitation of a lady. It really makes the audience say,"interesting...but where's the magic? I've seen this one before.."

I feel we shouldn't be so blatant in making out a character for ourselves. It makes us look like we're trying too hard. If you don't have a face of a washerwoman or look like one, then don't try to be one! Exatcly what Jim says, donning a clown's suit doesn't make you any more clownish than any of us.

I realise the importance of character in making the act more substantiated and meaningful but what if you just want to portray yourself as a magician? What do magicians look like?

Oh and I think we owe James an apology from deviating from his question like that. Heh! Anyway, I use snowstorm as an ending from my ball act as they are white, and from my feedback they look very good. A ball changes to a whole cloud of snow. You can try streamers or confetti. Oh and if the ball act is not alone and you have something coming up straight after it, just make the last ball disappear and appear whatever props that comes after that to begin your new sequence.