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Topic: OMG I just had a 2 Hour Intense Panic Attack While Reading About A Shamanic Vision Quest, Ed.
Message: Posted by: Eddini_81976 (Mar 4, 2014 02:47AM)
Man oh Man, I'm literally shaking right now. It's NOT, [b]NOT[/b] the fault of the Author. This is a ILLNESS that, plus P.T.S.D. and Bipolar Illness on MY part. You see certain things bring me flashbacks. You see I have TONS of learning, memories in my Brain. I was remembering the First Secret, the Children gave from a vision they saw, and by that I'm talking about the Visions of "Our Lady Of Fatima" to the Children which the Church has [b]DEEMED AUTHENTIC[/b]. She gave 3 secrets. The first was that Many people are going to Hell (sad to say a REAL PLACE), and in the Vision the Earth Turned Inside Out (as you know it's Molten Lava at the Center of the Earth), and they saw ....

(Well here is the [exact quote] from one of the kids, source wikipedia)

"Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror."

Read that LAST SENTENCE, she LITERALLY would've died of TERROR, which is what you get in a extreme Panic Attack. I had to take TWO of my Lorazepams (Ativan, same family as Valium, and Xanax). Those are "Benzodiazapines" A.K.A. "Minor Tranquilizers". I also use breathing in a bag to to help. Lots of people suggest "Relaxation Techniques" but they don't work. What I do is first take my P.R.N. Medication, then I NEED distraction so I over flood my mind. I'll have my T.V. on while listening to relaxing music WHILE ALSO playing Tetris on this old fashioned game boy. That way I get distracted BIG TIME. In this Vision Quest, Shamanic One, you go to the womb of the Earth. There is fire, there mentions the POSSIBILITY of Spirit Guides coming to you in shapes that MIGHT be scary but you can change it. Look I do NOT want to give away the book, though I'm sure 90% of you know what I'm talking about. The thing is I REALLY wanted to do it. Like in another post I'm been Hard Pressed to find my Soul Mate. That would've been my question is if I'll ever have one and if so, what will she look like, where will I meet her, and her name. I just WISH TO GOD there was a "Christian Version" of this. I've been told I'm good at Hypnosis Script Writing, and Chris Wassburger even offered me on Lybrary.com to put a book up of some Hypnotic Inductions and Scripts.

Now I have done Jerry Kein's "Ultra Height" Hypnosis, in which I paid $140.00 for that whole Seminar DVD. A lot of Hypnotist now just use "Ultra-Height" as their format. What happen is your "Inner Self", leaves your body, going UP, UP being the Main Word. See it's like a split while your Body keep going down, to the Esdaile State (Sometimes called the "Coma State" though I never call it I hate using the word Coma, Esdaile is the correct word) and in that state, you cannot do much "Suggestive Therapy" as they are so VERY DEEP, deeper than Somnambulism though it can be used with people in Pain. Actually they feel so good so at peace the voice of the Hypnotist can be annoying. Rarely you might need to use the "Hypnotic Threat" as when you try to emerge them, they simply want to STAY IN THAT STATE. The "Hypnotic Threat" is only used as a last resort for people who refuse to be emerged as they truly are in PURE ECSTASY. You basically say you'll count them out once more BUT if they don't emerge, you'll make it so that they cannot reach such a beautiful state again, and you promise them if they emerge you'll teach them how to get to that state again.

Anyway while the Physical Body is like that the "Inner Self" starts rising up, as you count from 1-10 like 3-4 times. Now where they go the interpretation is up to them and their belief system EXCEPT to say where they LITERALLY do go, it's all white all over the place with white pure beings there. You suggest that this is ONLY a good place and NO Negativity can be there as it's NOT allowed. He will say Spirit Guides but ALSO Guardian Angels. To me this place is very HOLY & PURE. I believe it's where the Gates of Heaven are and what you are seeing are ANGELS. He says go to the one you are drawn to as they have the answers to your problems. See as a Hypnotist this Model is better as the Angels do the Therapy so to speak. I saw in this Seminar where this lady had Cancer and the Doctors had written her off and she had tried many things like Acupuncture ... etc. She did this Session. Anyway two years later when Jerry was talking about this Seminar (he does like a 2 minute talk on every video he puts out) he mentions this Lady with the Cancer and how after doing this Session, though I'm certain OTHER things helped too, that she had been Cancer free for 2 years after doing this session. Jerry has SO MANY positive letters from all over the world from other Hypnotist using this type of Hypnosis with MIRACLES attributed to this. As you know IMHO ONLY Jesus does Miracles and healings BUT he works through people! I've done this Session twice though I won't lie I was nervous the first time. I thought it was a form of "Astral Projection" which as you know the Church condemns. I wanted to learn Reiki too but I looked up on the Church's Views, and they are against it. Heck when I was in the Psychiatric Ward, they had like 2 Reiki Volunteers that would come in and so many of the Psychiatric patients found it very relaxing. This same Hospitals too had Volunteer Eucharistic Ministers that came in, and I received Communion daily, and Communion has always been a positive things just like confession a huge weight is lifted off of you.

Back to the book, as I hear it now "Ed you're a Big Boy, if certain books or subjects disturb you so much that you're unraveling (as I have a bit as of lately), then read other things" and YES I do KNOW that. This book has [b]KILLER[/b] stuff in it. There is this section on "Eye Scanning" that I like Heck LOVE, because if you do a certain thing with the eyes you can attract girls, or just gain better rapport with your audience. I read too, of 2 KILLER Mentalism Card Effects I LOVE. You see when I ask about certain books and what to read, I DO HAVE A LEGIT REASON, and comments like "Read the whole book Ed" do NOT help. As far as Anxiety attacks I'll list my triggers below that way you know as it's NOT fair of me on my side to ask you what books or PARTS of books I should read and not read if you don't know my certain "Triggers".

1) Occult Stuff / New Age EXCEPT Astrology.
2) Shaman Stuff, Santeria, Voodoo (though I do use a VooDoo presentation in the Voodoo "Card Trick" that's different as it's presentation and NOT real Voodoo.) ... etc.
3) Astral Travel
4) * Spirit Guides, Spirits
5) Aliens, UFO's
6) Ouigi Boards, Tarot (This is MORE mild though)
7) Serial Killers (I've read so much on them, and have LOTS of True Crime Books, FBI Profiling, and it's a interest as the Human Mind fascinates me as I'm Self Taught in Psychology, Psychiatry, Psychopharmacology. TINY DOSES IS FINE, sometimes I get "Obsessive" over things and take it too far.
8) Wicca
9) Satanism, though again I've studied BOTH Wicca and Satanism. I had a Horrific Experience at 19 trying to do a Love Spell.
10) Demon Possession
11) Past Life as a Christian I don't believe in Past Lives. It's weird because as a Hypnotist lots want to know about their "Past Lives". I just refer them, though I LOVE age regression, and believe it to be the Most Powerful of Hypnosis Sessions. Jerry said (My Instructor) though however some will spontaneously, go back farther than this life and you must know how to deal with it. I do and could if had be. I personally believe a Past Life is the Mind's way of telling a STORY that it needs to tell. He also tells you how to know if someone is "Faking". If you ask very simple questions like their name in "that life" and they have to THINK about it them they are faking. Other things too.
12) Ghost unless it's a PRESENTATIONAL ploy.
13) REAL MagiK

Thanks again this book is GREAT, I just have to learn that if feeling uneasy reading the first few sentences to move on. This Author does have a book that might be more up my League, and I WON'T say the title but I glimpsed through it, and the Title, is what you'd say if you needed to alert people to a emergency. He has this HUGE book on Hypnosis I'd like to buy at one time but I've looked EVERYWHERE for it and have never found it not yet even the site that sells his books don't sell it.

God Bless, Ed

P.S. Still having minor Chest Pain and Mild Panic but the Meds are helping.
Message: Posted by: Eddini_81976 (Mar 4, 2014 03:01AM)
Oh another top I'm VERY afraid of is Hell. I was raised Strict Southern Baptist and have heard so many Hellfire and Brimstone Sermons. That's why I like being Catholic it's not so Black & White. I have a Legitimate Phobia of Hell, just as I do Snakes. I've terribly scared of Snakes. Anyway when in my Panic Attacks I get horrific visions of me Burning in Hell where there is NO END as it's forever. I then start thinking the Panic Attack will last forever. It's like a snowball effect. I do KNOW I'm Saved by the Blood of Christ but I sill fear it.

Thanks SO MUCH Again, God Bless, Ed
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Mar 4, 2014 03:39AM)
What's the name of the book please, Ed?
Message: Posted by: Eddini_81976 (Mar 4, 2014 04:30AM)
I'll PM you Iain, thanks, bud.

God Bless, Ed
Message: Posted by: Sean Giles (Mar 4, 2014 05:52AM)
I'd like to know too ed...

best,
Sean
Message: Posted by: Michael Zarek (Mar 4, 2014 07:45AM)
I didn't know that something like that could even couse a panic attack, well maybe in extreme cases (sorry Ed, don't mean anything bad)
I did that visualisation exercise for many people (at least 99% of them being christian) and never even gotten a bad look from a person.
I'm not christian myself but I perform(ed) for them quite a lot and they always seem interested in these sort of stuff and never had any faith problems. (only with tarot and ouiji board on few occasions)

Though I wouldn't see a problem with posting the name of the book here, I won't because it's your thread. All I could really say is to not read this sort of books but you already said you want to anyway, so the best advice would be to be carefull in the future. Maybe find someone who also has that book and can warn of any material that might be scary to you.


Btw, in "Psychic's little white book" there's actually a visualisation exercise that takes you to talk with the devil, so you should probably ask about books like that before you read them.
Message: Posted by: edwardsausagefingers (Mar 4, 2014 07:55AM)
Hypothetically, if everything on your list were proven to be superstitious nonsense, would you be free from those panic attacks?

Hypothetically, of course.
Message: Posted by: Eddini_81976 (Mar 4, 2014 08:50AM)
[quote]
On Mar 4, 2014, edwardsausagefingers wrote:
Hypothetically, if everything on your list were proven to be superstitious nonsense, would you be free from those panic attacks?

Hypothetically, of course.
[/quote]

No as my Faith is VERY STRONG. Hey you are on the other site too. How are you bud? Actually my FAITH is a comfort to me. I wrote a Poem here and LOTS of people mentioned I should start going back to Mass, I keep forgetting though on Saturdays to go to Confession at 3pm as when I go to Mass I like to receive Communion really the MAIN reason for going to Mass. The problem is I'm a Night Owl. I sleep roughly to 6pm-7pm. As I like to be busy every other day I'll have a 5 hour extra strength energy drink (Yes I know caffeine doesn't help), but it allows me to stay awake a good 36 hours, like I'll be up till like 11pm to roughly midnight. I'll then fall asleep and not wake up till about 6pm the next day. See I'm on a lot of meds that can't be adjusted they've tried (like 4 are for physical things) and without the energy drinks every other day I'd be drowsy all the time. All being up a very long time (80+ hours a couple of times but I've gotten better) I get panicky more easily too. Luckily when I think about it you can make appointments for confession. No I'm go to to Mass DAILY, say my Rosary ... etc. I am a lot better. You are talking about my LIST though. You have to believe I'm way MORE on the Skeptical side. I like watching stuff my Banachek, James Randi, Derren Brown and I think 90% is FAKE. I'm not so close minded though to allow for the possibility of those things. Heck the Bible had Prophets whose prophesies have come TRUE. I like those people I mentioned above HOWEVER when they start attacking the Bible, and God, they are going too far. There is this Video you should watch it's called "The Carlos Hoax". It's Eye Opening. I FIRMLY believe in a Spiritual World though.

Thanks God Bless, Ed :angelbear:
Message: Posted by: Eddini_81976 (Mar 4, 2014 09:08AM)
[quote]
On Mar 4, 2014, Michael Zarek wrote:
I didn't know that something like that could even couse a panic attack, well maybe in extreme cases (sorry Ed, don't mean anything bad)
I did that visualisation exercise for many people (at least 99% of them being christian) and never even gotten a bad look from a person.
I'm not christian myself but I perform(ed) for them quite a lot and they always seem interested in these sort of stuff and never had any faith problems. (only with tarot and ouiji board on few occasions)

Though I wouldn't see a problem with posting the name of the book here, I won't because it's your thread. All I could really say is to not read this sort of books but you already said you want to anyway, so the best advice would be to be carefull in the future. Maybe find someone who also has that book and can warn of any material that might be scary to you.


Btw, in "Psychic's little white book" there's actually a visualisation exercise that takes you to talk with the devil, so you should probably ask about books like that before you read them.
[/quote]

Thanks, yes I'd stay far away that though I have BOTH of those books, and recently as gifts got Neal Scryers "Carnival Of Secrets" which really looks very interesting, and "Band of Readers" where I saw a couple red flags, but I can learn lots of the Psychology behind things and as a bit of a Astrologer (I use to do people charts or the Computer Did, and I'd interpret them, for some Reason Astrology doesn't have that effect nor Numerology. Palmistry doesn't really bother me too much either. It's just Tarot but more than all put together Ouigi Boards. Did you know I read of all Demonic Possessions, that in most cases ouigo boards were involved and it makes me SICK it's sold as a kid's game I'm Happy Toys 'R' Us stopped carrying them. They TRULY are a gateway to the Devil. Actually Mike in a way I WANTED to do it pretty badly as I want to know if I'm going to Die alone or when am I going to find a mate like her name, where will we meet, what will she look like ... etc. Actually this Script no offense to the Author might be good for me to record IF I changed the Script BUT then I'm not sure how accurate it would be. I'm also afraid of finding out the answer. See my "Poetry" post because I said "Good thing I don't know the future ONLY IF it showed I'd never meet anyone" as I'd quickly "Check out of this life and I WOULD" as it's the HOPE of meeting my soul mate that kinda keeps me going. I isolate way too much and rarely leave my house so I might get 10 minutes of face to face Human Interaction, though of course in the Summers I'm better as I go out and perform on weekend nights and YES I do go out for appointments or to shop. That puts a damper on meeting ANYONE even friends. I need to get better on "Getting Out". I've tried EVERYTHING even Hypnotherapy. See to me Hypnotherapy is like my last resort. That gets into your subconscious mind. I first started that like 7 years ago and saw a Hypnotherapist / Psychiatric Social Worker licensed till like 4 years ago when she retired. I then 7 years ago became a Certified Hypnotist myself and have helped lots of people. I like helping people. Thanks I hear ya though.

God Bless, Ed
Message: Posted by: Sean Giles (Mar 4, 2014 09:22AM)
Regular sleep is one of the most important things we can do for our health and wellbeing Ed.
Message: Posted by: Eddini_81976 (Mar 4, 2014 09:54AM)
Very True. I either sleep way too much or I'm up a long time. They say you become clinically psychotic and can start hallucinating if up long enough.

God Bless My Friend, Ed :)
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Mar 4, 2014 09:59AM)
A close friend of mine who has bipolar, she has found a regular sleeping timetable and going for regular walks, building up to runs to have helped her regulate her peaks and troughs to a degree...and to deal with the zero energy and hyper times too...

anyway, as for the whole religion and tarot thing, it might be worthwhile taking some questions to your church and then consider how you personally feel about it all...as well as a little research into the ideas and subject matter...

the history of tarot is a fascinating one...
Message: Posted by: cirrus (Mar 4, 2014 10:58AM)
Why are you affraid of all those things? As if Wicca is bad... I have experience in wicca and I have gone through rituals... I can say with 100 procent certainty that the church is much more freightening than any wiccan ritual can ever be.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Mar 4, 2014 11:04AM)
I think we'd be better off steering clear of such discussions here, however frustrating it may be...as it'll not end well...
Message: Posted by: Philemon Vanderbeck (Mar 4, 2014 12:08PM)
Clearly, anything that smacks of bizarre magic is not for you.

If you wish to continue pursuing mentalism, you will need to take a purely scientific approach, e.g., using Zener cards.

However, as you have learned, much of modern mentalism is creeping over to the bizarre side, since purely scientific approaches to mentalism can be rather boring and perceived as being "old-fashioned." However, I think it is possible to develop such an approach and still make it entertaining.

You should stick to studying the early pioneers of this field (pre-Andruzzi), who were careful to avoid anything smacking of the supernatural. Early Kreskin and Dunniger (among others) would be good choices. Get rid of everything else in your library and focus on the classicists.
Message: Posted by: Eddini_81976 (Mar 4, 2014 12:09PM)
[quote]
On Mar 4, 2014, IAIN wrote:
A close friend of mine who has bipolar, she has found a regular sleeping timetable and going for regular walks, building up to runs to have helped her regulate her peaks and troughs to a degree...and to deal with the zero energy and hyper times too...

anyway, as for the whole religion and tarot thing, it might be worthwhile taking some questions to your church and then consider how you personally feel about it all...as well as a little research into the ideas and subject matter...

the history of tarot is a fascinating one...
[/quote]

Some people's Illnesses are different as we're different, plus I have OTHER things mixed in. Yes Playing Cards I believe was first used as Tarot. I know and HAVE STUDIED lots of things though I fear them. I've read books on Wicca by Cunningham, Cabot and others. I ALSO have asked the Priest. Before getting into Hypnosis I was afraid, but talked to my Priest and looked online for the Church's "Official" teaching. Halloween was first called Samhain. Etc... etc... please do NOT think I've done my studying just because I'm afraid. As I said I once had the Satanic Bible that I got rid of the night of the Spell at 19 when I had the Panic Attack. Yes the Church has done some HORRIFIC things BUT in everything there's always Bad Apples. Here read what I wrote in another post as to why Wicca scares me. There is NO such thing as "White Magic. There's powers from God, then any other comes from the Devil. It says in the Bible that the Devil can appear as a "Angel of Light". It says "To Test The Spirits". It also says "Watch the fruit a man bears". In other words ACTIONS speak louder than words. Look I'm VERY accepting of people and they'll VOUCH for that as I have friends who are Wiccan and even a friend who was a Satanist. We just didn't speak about our beliefs. So if you are Wiccan this post is NOT meant to be offensive. TRUE followers of Christ love EVERYONE.

God Bless, Ed.

Iain I agree that this post shouls stop, but as long as people comment I have to reply as I try to in all post.
Message: Posted by: Eddini_81976 (Mar 4, 2014 12:25PM)
[quote]
On Mar 4, 2014, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote:
Clearly, anything that smacks of bizarre magic is not for you.

If you wish to continue pursuing mentalism, you will need to take a purely scientific approach, e.g., using Zener cards.

However, as you have learned, much of modern mentalism is creeping over to the bizarre side, since purely scientific approaches to mentalism can be rather boring and perceived as being "old-fashioned." However, I think it is possible to develop such an approach and still make it entertaining.

You should stick to studying the early pioneers of this field (pre-Andruzzi), who were careful to avoid anything smacking of the supernatural. Early Kreskin and Dunniger (among others) would be good choices. Get rid of everything else in your library and focus on the classicists.
[/quote]

Yes EXACTLY someone who understands. Oh I have two decks of E.S.P. Cards and love them. No I don't do the N.L.P. versions of presentation though I use it. No I don't mind using words like Premonition, Telepathy, Clairvoyance, Telekinesis ... etc. I don't ever use a Disclaimer. I'm more "Middle of the Road". Astrology doesn't bother me I've studied that 23 years one year longer than Magic. My TOP favorite Mentalist are Richard Osterlind, Jerome Finley (ONLY certain things), Bob Cassidy, Banachek, Docc Hilford as I do Slit, and a few others, Riggs, Earle, Becker. I've seen you on youtube and you are good. Love your Mind Power Deck. Actually people would be surprised to know I LOVE Horror Movies. I love the Halloween Series Best. I like Amytiville Horror, *Scream, Friday The 13th. The Horror movies I don't like are ones that EASILY could happen like Paranormal Activities I haven't watched. I also don't like the Highly Fiction Horror / Sci-Fi movies like Aliens (though I KNOW they exist). It took me a while to watch The Exorcist when I did I found it more "Intense" than scary. I've seen The Possession of Emily Rose, Haunting in Connecticut. I have a Horror Persona and made a video even. Dr. Svengali. I'll try to post a pic of him. I love Metal, Iron Maiden, Slayer, Megadeth, Ozzy Osborne, Black Sabbath, Slayer ... etc ... lol. I tried to post a picture of my Character Dr. Svengali it didn't post though. I'll try again below. Yes I had this Video of Andruzzi that scared me. He was wearing Black wearing a PENTAGRAM, which is Satanic, and a Black Sheet in the Background with a Pentagram, so I deleted that File.

Thanks, God Bless, Ed :)
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Mar 4, 2014 12:46PM)
You do realize much of mentalism traces its roots back to the chicanery of spiritualism - with PK, billets and so on? Mentalism underwent a pseudoscience reform mid century and especially with Uri Gellar times - when you read the Annemann etc there is tons of supernatural aspects to the presentations.

It really doesn't matter what you do if you start to believe the theatrical effects are becoming real. Or in this case reading about these effects are having direct impact on your cognitions and emotions. When reality and fantasy become unclear, IMHO you really need more than the advice here - you need to really get more help for your mental well being. I worry about your health Eddini - and despite all the help and posts for suggestions - you really need to get more local in person support IMHO - I've seen too many people wait or avoid that with fatal consequences.

Eddini, I call upon you to reflect on your spiritual side to say you are valuable and important enough to deserve support and help and that you must allow yourself to get it. I really don't want to see another disaster occur. Its difficult when a mood grows so dark its beyond normal sadness and the entire scope of options seems small - but that could be depression. Rather than keep reading these magic books - I beg you to consider reading Mind over Mood or Feeling Good and other cognitive metathinking techniques for dealing with anxiety and depression... IMHO, master or at least subdue some of your own cognitive distortion thoughts before trying to do mind reading entertainment. I know you got doctors but I think from what you are posting, it might be worth while making sure there is not more that could be done to help improve things... and other therapists.

I apologize if this appears to be overreacting and if I have offended - as mentioned, I've seen to many people die from mental health conditions that were not properly treated due to issues of stigma, lousy healthcare systems, and other things. I wish you well and hope things will get better for you - but I don't think it can happen without concrete support beyond the Magic Café.

Please take care!
Message: Posted by: Circusman (Mar 4, 2014 01:27PM)
Oh, brother. Is this a joke ?
Message: Posted by: Jerome Finley (Mar 4, 2014 01:28PM)
[quote]
On Mar 4, 2014, Dr Spektor wrote:
You do realize much of mentalism traces its roots back to the chicanery of spiritualism - with PK, billets and so on? Mentalism underwent a pseudoscience reform mid century and especially with Uri Gellar times - when you read the Annemann etc there is tons of supernatural aspects to the presentations.

It really doesn't matter what you do if you start to believe the theatrical effects are becoming real. Or in this case reading about these effects are having direct impact on your cognitions and emotions. When reality and fantasy become unclear, IMHO you really need more than the advice here - you need to really get more help for your mental well being. I worry about your health Eddini - and despite all the help and posts for suggestions - you really need to get more local in person support IMHO - I've seen too many people wait or avoid that with fatal consequences.

Eddini, I call upon you to reflect on your spiritual side to say you are valuable and important enough to deserve support and help and that you must allow yourself to get it. I really don't want to see another disaster occur. Its difficult when a mood grows so dark its beyond normal sadness and the entire scope of options seems small - but that could be depression. Rather than keep reading these magic books - I beg you to consider reading Mind over Mood or Feeling Good and other cognitive metathinking techniques for dealing with anxiety and depression... IMHO, master or at least subdue some of your own cognitive distortion thoughts before trying to do mind reading entertainment. I know you got doctors but I think from what you are posting, it might be worth while making sure there is not more that could be done to help improve things... and other therapists.

I apologize if this appears to be overreacting and if I have offended - as mentioned, I've seen to many people die from mental health conditions that were not properly treated due to issues of stigma, lousy healthcare systems, and other things. I wish you well and hope things will get better for you - but I don't think it can happen without concrete support beyond the Magic Café.

Please take care!
[/quote]

I'm with you, Bruce!

Ed...I love you, dude. I'm honored and grateful that you feel safe and accepted enough here to share your thoughts, feelings and experiences with us. It means a lot to me personally and I always really enjoy reading your posts.

That said, if it's MY BOOKS that are causing you additional confusion or duress of any kind at this time then I'm not sending them to you anymore, mate. ;)

As Iain has already offered and which I can only continue to recommend and agree with...your diet/nutrition/proper hydration, taking some time every day to be grateful and practice your own form of prayer/meditation/mindfulness, getting regular exercise and moving that wonderful body that God gave you, taking in plenty of sunlight and deep cleansing breaths (etc) can only do a person in a situation like yours (AND MINE!) infinite amounts of good. Please take care of yourself and know that while my own schedule and free time is limited, that I'm here for you and will make every effort to support, encourage and cheer you on along the way, now and always.

I want what's best for you...and thanks again for sharing!

J.
Message: Posted by: Chaz93 (Mar 4, 2014 03:53PM)
Hey Ed, you do NLP right? Why not do some reframing, or use some strategies to break the anchors which say to feel fear when presented with certain things, such as religions other than christianity? Physician heal thyself and all that. :D
Message: Posted by: Chaz93 (Mar 4, 2014 04:21PM)
And yeah, What Dr. Spector and Jerome are saying are totally true. Go get yourself some real help dude. It's awesome that you're comfortable enough to come out with your problems in the end this is a forum for entertainers, not therapists and I'm willing to bet few here are really armed to be able to help you in the way you need.
Message: Posted by: Eddini_81976 (Mar 4, 2014 09:47PM)
[quote]
On Mar 4, 2014, Dr Spektor wrote:
You do realize much of mentalism traces its roots back to the chicanery of spiritualism - with PK, billets and so on? Mentalism underwent a pseudoscience reform mid century and especially with Uri Gellar times - when you read the Annemann etc there is tons of supernatural aspects to the presentations.

It really doesn't matter what you do if you start to believe the theatrical effects are becoming real. Or in this case reading about these effects are having direct impact on your cognitions and emotions. When reality and fantasy become unclear, IMHO you really need more than the advice here - you need to really get more help for your mental well being. I worry about your health Eddini - and despite all the help and posts for suggestions - you really need to get more local in person support IMHO - I've seen too many people wait or avoid that with fatal consequences.

Eddini, I call upon you to reflect on your spiritual side to say you are valuable and important enough to deserve support and help and that you must allow yourself to get it. I really don't want to see another disaster occur. Its difficult when a mood grows so dark its beyond normal sadness and the entire scope of options seems small - but that could be depression. Rather than keep reading these magic books - I beg you to consider reading Mind over Mood or Feeling Good and other cognitive metathinking techniques for dealing with anxiety and depression... IMHO, master or at least subdue some of your own cognitive distortion thoughts before trying to do mind reading entertainment. I know you got doctors but I think from what you are posting, it might be worth while making sure there is not more that could be done to help improve things... and other therapists.

I apologize if this appears to be overreacting and if I have offended - as mentioned, I've seen to many people die from mental health conditions that were not properly treated due to issues of stigma, lousy healthcare systems, and other things. I wish you well and hope things will get better for you - but I don't think it can happen without concrete support beyond the Magic Café.

Please take care!
[/quote]

I AGREE so much with you. See the thing is, is that I see a Psychiatrist every 3 months for a 1/2 hour Check Up, and to talk about my Medications. I have Medicaid & Medicare as Health Insurances. When I first moved from here from Florida at 18 I went to a Mental Health Center for 9 years. I could NOT stand that place. There I had a Therapist, Psychiatrist and a person called a Case Manager. It was the Psychiatrist mostly I could not stand. They were over worked and under paid. I then at around 26 found the GREAT Psychiatrist that I see now. However he just takes Medicare and my co-pay is like $35.00. I cannot afford that weekly. I then found a Psychologist last Summer but he dropped me as in a couple Months I had wound up in I.C.U. (Intensive Care Unit) as I tried to leave life early. He said my issues were too severe for what he was use to working with. Lots have said the Mental Health Center has changed and I should go back. NO, NO, because in order to be in Therapy there I'd need to see one of THEIR Psychiatrist, and I for sure don't want that. I've FINALLY for the past 11 years found a Psychiatrist that I get along with. A Social Worker did give me a list of Therapist within walking distance from me and who takes my Insurances. I've called some said they stopped taking my Insurances, and some said my problems were too severe as they dealt mostly with like House Wives who feel empty ... etc ... etc. See I've been in Therapy since I was 7. As a Child though I grew out of it I had SEVERE ADHD. I'd literally run around the classroom literally jumping on desk to desk ... etc. Then at 13 (Dr. Cushman would know all about this stuff being a Psychologist) I had Major Depression. Like about 1/3 of those with that it turns into Bipolar Illness which it did for me at age 20, when I became disabled for it. I have Bipolar Type II, the Less Severe type.

For the past 3 years I've also been a recovering Drug Addict from Pain Pills, like Vicodin, Percocet, Morphine, Oxycontin. From like age 21-34 I was a very severe addict. Like 4-5 out of 7 days I'd take 20-30 pills in a day. I'd take like 8-10 at a time, then 3-4 every 3-5 hours. Most it makes drowsy with me I felt weight lifted off my shoulders, I was Happy, Open, Funny, and very Motivated. I'd always take my pills before performing as I'd be more Funny and Witted and I'd make more in tips. Anyway I quit with the Help of my daily Suboxone which like Methadone helps with cravings. I'm STILL clean though. I'm more miserable, but clean. You see that was the Reason I first sought out a Hypnotherapist was to get off Pills as I tried EVERYTHING. She mentioned the Methadone Clinic which I did like 8 months but lost my ride. Judith was the BEST Therapist ever. She retired at age 75 like 3 1/2 years ago. Besides seeing that Psychologist a few times she was the last Therapist I saw. She really was good for me. She was not ONLY a M.S.W. but Board Certified, and Licensed. She was a Master in N.L.P. She had 40+ years experience. She was a Clinical Hypnotherapist. She was not only N.G.H., but the Dental & Medical Association of Hypnotist too. She had a Specialty in "Ericksonian Hypnotherapy". So she could do Talk therapy OR Hypnotherapy depending on the person's needs. She was a Family and Marriage therapist and Child Therapist too. She knew Betty Erickson. Though she was good I never felt I went very Deep into Hypnosis with her. She never tested either. Personally in my training you MUST have Somnambulism, and Test for it. Calvin Banyan said of Hypnotherapist who don't test are "Hypno-Wimps". I agree. She did admit to me that when working with me she said I did best if I felt like I had some "Control" over things. Obviously as a Hypnotist YOU must always, ALWAYS be in control, so it was more of a "Illusion" that I had Control she created a Ericksonian Technique. That's very true as Trust is hard for me and I NEED at least some Control over things.

I'm posting this NOT to bore people but maybe this will be of help to others. Also I HATE how people Judge and Discriminate against the Mentally Ill so if I can tell my Story I will.

My Axises

Axis I (Chemical Imbalance Illnesses)

1) Bipolar Type II Rapid Cycler
2) Panic Attack Disorder With Social Anxiety
3) P.T.S.D. (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)
4) Opiate Dependence in Remission 3 Years

Axis II (Personality Disorders)

1) Personality Disorder N.O.S. (Not Otherwise Specified) with Borderline, Obsessive Compulsive, Avoidant, "Features".

Axis III (There are just medical Illnesses but I posted them elsewhere and won't bother here).

ANYWAYS bottom line YES I have called a bunch of people so that I can have weekly Therapy. They use with me the "Supportive Therapy Module".

Thanks so much Dr. Spektor for your concern and I DO get your concerns.

Thanks, God Bless, Ed
Message: Posted by: Eddini_81976 (Mar 4, 2014 10:11PM)
[quote]
On Mar 4, 2014, Jerome Finley wrote:
[quote]
On Mar 4, 2014, Dr Spektor wrote:
You do realize much of mentalism traces its roots back to the chicanery of spiritualism - with PK, billets and so on? Mentalism underwent a pseudoscience reform mid century and especially with Uri Gellar times - when you read the Annemann etc there is tons of supernatural aspects to the presentations.

It really doesn't matter what you do if you start to believe the theatrical effects are becoming real. Or in this case reading about these effects are having direct impact on your cognitions and emotions. When reality and fantasy become unclear, IMHO you really need more than the advice here - you need to really get more help for your mental well being. I worry about your health Eddini - and despite all the help and posts for suggestions - you really need to get more local in person support IMHO - I've seen too many people wait or avoid that with fatal consequences.

Eddini, I call upon you to reflect on your spiritual side to say you are valuable and important enough to deserve support and help and that you must allow yourself to get it. I really don't want to see another disaster occur. Its difficult when a mood grows so dark its beyond normal sadness and the entire scope of options seems small - but that could be depression. Rather than keep reading these magic books - I beg you to consider reading Mind over Mood or Feeling Good and other cognitive metathinking techniques for dealing with anxiety and depression... IMHO, master or at least subdue some of your own cognitive distortion thoughts before trying to do mind reading entertainment. I know you got doctors but I think from what you are posting, it might be worth while making sure there is not more that could be done to help improve things... and other therapists.

I apologize if this appears to be overreacting and if I have offended - as mentioned, I've seen to many people die from mental health conditions that were not properly treated due to issues of stigma, lousy healthcare systems, and other things. I wish you well and hope things will get better for you - but I don't think it can happen without concrete support beyond the Magic Café.

Please take care!
[/quote]

I'm with you, Bruce!

Ed...I love you, dude. I'm honored and grateful that you feel safe and accepted enough here to share your thoughts, feelings and experiences with us. It means a lot to me personally and I always really enjoy reading your posts.

That said, if it's MY BOOKS that are causing you additional confusion or duress of any kind at this time then I'm not sending them to you anymore, mate. ;)

As Iain has already offered and which I can only continue to recommend and agree with...your diet/nutrition/proper hydration, taking some time every day to be grateful and practice your own form of prayer/meditation/mindfulness, getting regular exercise and moving that wonderful body that God gave you, taking in plenty of sunlight and deep cleansing breaths (etc) can only do a person in a situation like yours (AND MINE!) infinite amounts of good. Please take care of yourself and know that while my own schedule and free time is limited, that I'm here for you and will make every effort to support, encourage and cheer you on along the way, now and always.

I want what's best for you...and thanks again for sharing!

J.
[/quote]

Thanks so much Jerome and PLEASE know as I said your BOOKS ARE GREAT and it's NOT, not, really that at all. It's MY CHOICE to be knowledgable enough to skip over the parts I'm not into, which is NOT much. In this book as I said I love the EYE SCAN Technique and it may FINALLY help me get a girlfriend. I've also used the line "There's something special about you, but I don't know exactly what but when I figure it out I'll let you know". I hope you don't mind me quoting that if so I apologize. I HATE Cold weather, yes I don't move around a lot. I'm a Computer addict that I WILL admit. I DO want the "Thought Veil" book VERY BAD as I've looked EVERYWHERE. I love Hypnosis and HELPING PEOPLE. Jerome where can I find that book. How much is it though I've on "Low Income". Like to me (this is in no way a put down on your books that are GOLD) but $100.00 is a huge sum. The most I've EVER spent was $80.00 and that was Ormond McGill's Complete Encyclopedia Of Stage Hypnosis", and like $70.00 on the KILLER BOOK, T.A. Waters "Mind, Myth, and Magick". Jerome you have been EXTREMELY Generous with me and that I could NEVER repay. If you wish to not send me anymore of your Works I UNDERSTAND. Your GREAT Friendship is enough. I would like to skype with you WHEN you are ever free. My name is Eddini_81976. Please know I always stay invisible. So just print like Hello or something to see if I'm around as my computer is on pretty much 24/7 though 1-2 a week I'll turn it off for like 5 minutes. I have a Power Saver multiple plus in or Surge Protector I guess they are called. Jerome I knew this lady like you and I asked her if I'll meet someone. This was like 3 years ago too. She said her "Guide" saw me making a new group of friends and saw a girl who worked with Horses or had a Horse and her name started with a "J". Obviously her "Friends were off". We sadly had a falling out. She said she felt I needed more Professional Help. She was a "Visionary Artist". Like she has seen (Supposedly) Jesus, Mary ... etc. and would Paint her Visions. She's Britist. She kinda hurt me bad though. Her Husband wrote me threatening me and everything, and both parties called the cops on each other. She in England filed a report on me and I filed one on her or her Husband due to his Physical Threats. The Cops couldn't do a thing as they were across the Sea. Oh well you live and learn. I hope to Skype soon, and find "Thought Veil". Thanks so much.

God Bless and PROTECT You, My Friend, Ed (Eddini) C.H. :bigsmile:
Message: Posted by: Jerome Finley (Mar 5, 2014 12:12AM)
Ed,

"Thought Veil" is a strong investment and in reality it might be a little too intense for you right now. As your friend my best recommendation would be to keep using and reading what you have already and we can discuss TV over the late spring/early summer - the issue here is not a lack of material and study...you can and already do what I do.

Remember it always!

Please bear in mind too that I'm a traditional healer and NOT a medical doctor. I would never advise anyone to change or in any way alter their current course, plan of action, future goals, Dr. assisted therapy or required medications, especially without the complete and total support of their primary care-provider on board. That said, I've worked quite a bit with addiction issues and if this is something you continue to struggle with I'd be happy to share my personal and professional experience with Suboxone and "Robert's Method" - an effective tapering program for those dealing with opioid dependence.

J.
Message: Posted by: Chaz93 (Mar 5, 2014 12:43AM)
No offence meant Ed,

But I think that at this point these conversations should be moved to PM or some other form. I don't see how this is relevant to mentalism or hypnosis methods or secrets, which is what this board is designed for. You have a lot of support here at the Café, and it's important to nurture those relationships but I don't believe the Café is the place for these types of posts.

Do you have a blog?
Message: Posted by: Jerome Finley (Mar 5, 2014 12:58AM)
I agree AND how it's relevant to mentalism is that what Ed is sharing here is affecting him as a mentalist.

It's relevant to hypnosis because we HAVE TOOLS at our fingertips to cope with difficult situations and hard times.

It can't all be swamis, billet switches and preshow work all the time. ;)

With this in mind, my apologies if I myself have offended anyone or caused discomfort with my responses. I would rather a person speak openly about their difficulties and challenges in whatever form, manner and medium is most appropriate, accessible and comfortable to them over suffering in silence, feeling alone and not having the support of THEIR COMMUNITY behind them. If the subject matter and content is problematic for you, it's really REALLY easy to not read it, skip over the thread and go about your life and daily business.

Anxiety, depression, insomnia, alcoholism and chemical dependency is something that adversely effects countless magicians, hypnotists and mentalists the world over.

J.
Message: Posted by: Chaz93 (Mar 5, 2014 01:14AM)
No offense my way Jerome. In fact, I'm rather digging what I've seen from you on this post. I'm really trying to word this in a way that doesn't sound overly harsh because I don't intend to be. I recognize that someone is hurting and calling out for support, and getting that support and that's awesome. And yes, they should have community support behind them, and it makes me feel good to know that it's there. You suggest that this is relevant to mentalism because what is being shared is affecting the person as a mentalist, and while I don't disagree with that statement I think it's broad. Everything we do affects us. Would it be appropriate for me to post pictures of my lunch in Inner Thoughts? After all, what I eat affects me as a person, and who I am as a person affects me as a mentalist...

Ed, I wish you all the best. I truly do. And I want you to know that I'm not intending on being mean.

However, (and here's the harsh part) this isn't a self-help forum.
Message: Posted by: Jerome Finley (Mar 5, 2014 01:31AM)
If it's important to you, it's important to me.

This isn't my house and I don't make the rules or guidelines for posting. That said, I would gladly look at your pictures of lunch. ;)

J.
Message: Posted by: Eddini_81976 (Mar 5, 2014 01:48AM)
[quote]
On Mar 5, 2014, Jerome Finley wrote:
I agree AND how it's relevant to mentalism is that what Ed is sharing here is affecting him as a mentalist.

It's relevant to hypnosis because we HAVE TOOLS at our fingertips to cope with difficult situations and hard times.

It can't all be swamis, billet switches and preshow work all the time. ;)

With this in mind, my apologies if I myself have offended anyone or caused discomfort with my responses. I would rather a person speak openly about their difficulties and challenges in whatever form, manner and medium is most appropriate, accessible and comfortable to them over suffering in silence, feeling alone and not having the support of THEIR COMMUNITY behind them. If the subject matter and content is problematic for you, it's really REALLY easy to not read it, skip over the thread and go about your life and daily business.

Anxiety, depression, insomnia, alcoholism and chemical dependency is something that adversely effects countless magicians, hypnotists and mentalists the world over.

J.
[/quote]

So True and I agree. Jerome your post have always been positive. Chaz sorry, but people ask LOTS of questions here and I just try to answer them and kind of give a complete picture is all. I'm sorry if that bothers you. You said PM. PM who exactly as I've had so many responses and like I said I won't be silenced due to having specific issues, and was hoping the post would help others. You have to understand that I TOO am a Healer in many ways as far as being a Hypnotist, maybe not as much as Jerome is. Jerome yes I TOTALLY get that ethically as Hypnotist we CANNOT Diagnose or treat issues. When I do Hypnosis whether on youtube I ALWAYS say consult your Medical Doctor so no need to explain that aspect I totally get you. Yes we need referrals. I kinda get what you are saying about Thought Veil but to my understanding it's a Hypnosis Book on Scripts and Inductions and I've already read a few. The first Hypnosis book I ever read was from a Clinical Perspective. I have Richard Nongard's & Michael Johns "Black Book of Stage Hypnosis, The Geoffrey Ronning Book, the Jerry Valley Book, the Ormond McGill book, TONS of DVDs at LEAST 60 hours worth and I'm talking mostly Medical / Clinical. As far as Inductions and I've been at it 8 years I've never been good at the Instant Inductions, plus I like the longer ones. I actually have MY OWN which is 8 minutes and can be used either Therapeutically or for Entertainment.

Actually in the Nongard Book Richard talks about how if all we do is "Instant Inductions" we're kinda robbing the audience of the experience because to THEM that is where "The Magic" happens though we of course know better and if all we use if the Shock / Instant Inductions lots of audiences will get suspicious of set ups. This TOO if from a guy with his Partner John Cerbone has lots of "Speed Trance" DVD's and they do workshops on Instant Inductions.

Besides my own I love the Arm Levitation one and I of course love the Dave Elman and use it quite a bit. I love Therapeutic Scripts too. Yes I've taken the Suboxone for 3 years now and know without it I'd be out trying to get pills. I use to get them through multiple doctors, or by intentionally hurting myself. I'd like to know the "Robert" method. That was my Dad's name, but he went by "Bob". I trust your Judgement though a lot. You know I'm part Native American and I say that as I know you like to Study that stuff. I'm a BIG MIX though. I'm Irish, English, French, French Canadian (Nova Scotia & New Foundland), as far as the Tribes I'm part Cherokee (we had a Indian Princess in our Family Tree), and Penobscot Indian.

Thanks My Friend, God Bless, Ed
Message: Posted by: Chaz93 (Mar 5, 2014 02:14AM)
Ed,

I'm open to PMs, should you wish. I assume several of the others who have voiced their support or concern would be open to PM as well.

No one is trying to shut you up because of your issues. I'm simply suggesting there are more appropriate places and means to work through your issues.

You say that I have to understand that you're also a healer. Ok. I understand that. I'm not seeing what that has to do with whether or not this is the type of conversation suited for a Magic forum, but I understand it. Not because I have to though, but because I choose to.

What I would appreciate you choosing to understand is that while venting is useful and often encouraged, this is simply not the place for it.

You mentioned that you work NLP before. I'm interested to know what strategies you're using, and what your current models look like. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat.

All the best,
Charles
Message: Posted by: critter (Mar 5, 2014 02:14AM)
Preacher man told me once that Hell is not eternal, it's instantaneous. Your soul just gets tossed into a fire where it is consumed and perishes instantly and it's as if you never even existed. Snuff, poof, no eternal life for you.
Message: Posted by: Voodini (Mar 5, 2014 11:38AM)
[quote]
On Mar 5, 2014, critter wrote:
Preacher man told me once that Hell is not eternal, it's instantaneous. Your soul just gets tossed into a fire where it is consumed and perishes instantly and it's as if you never even existed. Snuff, poof, no eternal life for you.
[/quote]
Or alternatively there is no hell, it was just invented to keep the riff raff subjugated. But I don't think this kind of discussion will help Ed.
Message: Posted by: Eddini_81976 (Mar 5, 2014 06:21PM)
[quote]
On Mar 5, 2014, Chaz93 wrote:
Ed,

I'm open to PMs, should you wish. I assume several of the others who have voiced their support or concern would be open to PM as well.

No one is trying to shut you up because of your issues. I'm simply suggesting there are more appropriate places and means to work through your issues.

You say that I have to understand that you're also a healer. Ok. I understand that. I'm not seeing what that has to do with whether or not this is the type of conversation suited for a Magic forum, but I understand it. Not because I have to though, but because I choose to.

What I would appreciate you choosing to understand is that while venting is useful and often encouraged, this is simply not the place for it.

You mentioned that you work NLP before. I'm interested to know what strategies you're using, and what your current models look like. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat.

All the best,
Charles
[/quote]


Thanks so much and yes to a degree I get what you're saying but I always try to ask myself what I'd do if I was in the other's shoes as far as how I'd react. If this wasn't me but another going through stuff as a Healer I'd PM them personally and (or) talk openly here. That is what being a Hypnotist has to do with it. Thanks for that offer and I may just PM you. You see I'm WAY MORE often on the other side of the issues. My Subscribers a lot of times come to me when having issues or on the brink of death. It's more in PM's on facebook as I have close to 3,000 friends (FANS mostly) but sometimes they'll talk on there wall. Heck when down I'm make a youtube Video VLOG as I type so slow or just post it to the wall. Also though I know the Literal meaning of this site Performers helping Others BUT I think it can and should go further too. N.L.P. Model? I know more Basics like Mirroring, Pacing, Leading, Indirect Suggestion, Embedded Commands, Confusion ... etc. I like Milton Erickson what a genius. I've read a little of the Meta too. I've helped a lot of people who were on the brink. My old Therapist I had would tell me to literally put a pillow in a chair and talk to it as if it was me since she thought I had talent for it.

Thanks, God Bless, Ed
Message: Posted by: Payne (Mar 5, 2014 06:34PM)
[quote]
On Mar 5, 2014, critter wrote:
Preacher man told me once that Hell is not eternal, it's instantaneous. Your soul just gets tossed into a fire where it is consumed and perishes instantly and it's as if you never even existed. Snuff, poof, no eternal life for you.
[/quote]

That would be Heaven for me. Eternal Life has no attraction for me at all. I can't imagine a worse torture than having to consciously experience eternity. Especially if one would have to do so with ones family around. I'd much prefer to spend eternity in the oblivion of non existence.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Mar 5, 2014 06:37PM)
[quote]
On Mar 5, 2014, Voodini wrote:

Or alternatively there is no hell, it was just invented to keep the riff raff subjugated. But I don't think this kind of discussion will help Ed.

[/quote]

When I was even or eight someone tried to explain hell, the devil and eternal punishment to me. I told them that this was just stuff you told people to make them act good.

Needless to say I never bought into their other propoganda either. :)
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Mar 5, 2014 06:38PM)
[quote]
On Mar 5, 2014, Payne wrote:
[quote]
On Mar 5, 2014, critter wrote:
Preacher man told me once that Hell is not eternal, it's instantaneous. Your soul just gets tossed into a fire where it is consumed and perishes instantly and it's as if you never even existed. Snuff, poof, no eternal life for you.
[/quote]

That would be Heaven for me. Eternal Life has no attraction for me at all. I can't imagine a worse torture than having to consciously experience eternity. Especially if one would have to do so with ones family around. I'd much prefer to spend eternity in the oblivion of non existence.
[/quote]

Hey Payne - read this book...

“I yearn for the darkness. I pray for death. Real death. If I thought that in death I would meet the people I've known in life I don't know what I'd do. That would be the ultimate horror. The ultimate despair. If I had to meet my mother again and start all of that all over, only this time without the prospect of death to look forward to? Well. That would be the final nightmare. Kafka on wheels.”
― Cormac McCarthy, The Sunset Limited: A Novel in Dramatic Form
Message: Posted by: critter (Mar 5, 2014 06:45PM)
I actually was trying to help. If the eternal burning is the scary part, as the OP stated, then if my preacher was right that's not a worry. Problem solved.
Message: Posted by: lunatik (Mar 5, 2014 07:30PM)
But if he wasn't right and didn't read and comprehend what the Scriptures state, problem not solved.
Message: Posted by: critter (Mar 5, 2014 08:58PM)
I'm pretty sure he's had to at least read them to get that theology degree. As for comprehend... I'm not sure I've ever met anyone who did.
Like I said, just trying to help. What people choose to do with that is their own ***ed business.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Mar 5, 2014 09:27PM)
[quote]
On Mar 5, 2014, lunatik wrote:
But if he wasn't right and didn't read and comprehend what the Scriptures state, problem not solved.
[/quote]

and of course he's chosen the correct belief system :)
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Mar 5, 2014 10:11PM)
What if the scriptures aren't true? What then? Does nobody get out of here alive?
Message: Posted by: lunatik (Mar 5, 2014 11:35PM)
We're all in trouble!
Message: Posted by: Payne (Mar 5, 2014 11:56PM)
[quote]
On Mar 5, 2014, Dr Spektor wrote:

Hey Payne - read this book...

“I yearn for the darkness. I pray for death. Real death. If I thought that in death I would meet the people I've known in life I don't know what I'd do. That would be the ultimate horror. The ultimate despair. If I had to meet my mother again and start all of that all over, only this time without the prospect of death to look forward to? Well. That would be the final nightmare. Kafka on wheels.”
¯ Cormac McCarthy, The Sunset Limited: A Novel in Dramatic Form
[/quote]

Don't have to as I saw the movie, which was excellent by the way :)
Message: Posted by: Eddini_81976 (Mar 6, 2014 05:00PM)
My friend I've told you about my Confidant Paul (R.I.P. Paul McDonough 11/11/45 - 10/17/13) who I knew for 17 years he knew me MORE than anyone and he was Smart, Well Read ... etc. While I converted to Catholicism, Being 90% Irish (1st and 2nd Generation, could speak Gaelic as well as French, Spanish, Italian as when he was younger he was a Tour Guide in Europe and knew just a LITTLE German & Russian too. He did accents well. Like not only could he Speak with a British Aspect, he could do the Cockney Dialect I think, the London or Posh ... etc) 10% Scottish he was a "Cradle Catholic". Like me he didn't believe in 100% of what ALL the Church Taught he was a VERY GOOD Catholic. He said that while he believed in Heaven (he has 2 near death experiences too), he DIDN'T believe in Hell. He said he thought we worshiped 2 separate Gods half joking. He said he believed in a all loving, all merciful God. I told him the Verses in the Bible (He was a Great Debater) and he said while he believed in the Bible he did not think it was the "Word of God". He asked me if I read Hebrew or Greek as that was what the Originals were written in and of course he knew I didn't. He said out of the Bibles the Jerusalem Bible was the most accurate. I told him as I'd heard this, is that we are the ones that SEND OURSELVES TO HELL by rejecting God. He then asked me what kind of person would do that. I said a very sick and disturbed person. He then like would this all loving merciful God we have REALLY let us to that to ourselves. I'll admit there was a time in my very early 20's that he had me sold that there is ONLY a Heaven, and a Purgatory. Yes he believed in Purgatory but never Hell. I've read lots of T.V. Specials on "Supposed" missing books of the New Testament. There was Supposedly a Book of Mary (Magdeline), of Judas and so on that talked about Jesus's gap between ages 12-30 when he started his Minitry. Also "Supposedly" in one of those book Jesus told whoever in a Vision that Hell wasn't real but was in the Bible to make sure people did the right thing or something.

Thanks, God Bless, Ed (EDDINI) C.H. (Certified Hypnotist) ;)