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Topic: Invisible deck problem
Message: Posted by: LoveKey1988 (Mar 13, 2014 05:46AM)
I have ordered an invisible deck from penguin and the first cards from the top and the bottom don't adhere well..I think they are a little bend and they don't catch. Any ideas on how to fix this?

I don't want to go bother the customer support at penguin if anyone knows how to fix this.

Thanks a lot.

Regards, Marian
Message: Posted by: Bulla (Mar 13, 2014 07:02AM)
You could try cutting the deck so those cards end up in the middle and see if that helps.
Message: Posted by: LoveKey1988 (Mar 13, 2014 09:07AM)
It seems that if I cut the cards now the new top bottom bards don't stick as well as the others. Is this normal? For the new top cards to not stick as well as the others. I can get way with it if I am very careful with those. I am just wondering if its normal!
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Mar 13, 2014 11:00AM)
Well, you do need to put at least a little bit of pressure on the deck when handling it, in order for the pairs of cards to stay together. The way the cards are treated, they do not "stick" to each other, but friction is created when pressure is applied so that the pairs of cards cannot spread apart as you are spreading the deck.

Test it by spreading the cards in your hand, being sure to keep a little pressure on the cards. If the pairs stay together when you are putting a little bit of pressure on them, the deck sounds ok. If the pairs spread apart even when you apply pressure as you're spreading the cards, you should return the deck and get another one.
Message: Posted by: MRSharpe (Mar 13, 2014 11:03AM)
Good point Chessman. For most card work a light touch is best, but in the case of anything that uses the R&S principle, some pressure is required.
Message: Posted by: LoveKey1988 (Mar 13, 2014 01:00PM)
Chessman...thank you...that does the trick.

However I have another problem.

How do I separate the cards whend I need to separate them without taking to much time.

They seem so hard to separate.

Any advice?
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Mar 13, 2014 02:09PM)
Not sure we can do much better than the instructions on that point. I would read them a couple of times through (I always catch something I missed the first time). Just keep working with it and eventually you will find the way that is smoothest for you. Ask 10 magicians how they do it and you'll get 10 answers that are mostly, but not quite, the same :)
Message: Posted by: videoman (Mar 13, 2014 03:07PM)
[quote]
On Mar 13, 2014, LoveKey1988 wrote:
Chessman...thank you...that does the trick.

However I have another problem.

How do I separate the cards whend I need to separate them without taking to much time.

They seem so hard to separate.

Any advice?
[/quote]

There are at least a couple reasons why some can separate them apart easily while others can't.
Technique is important as it with anything else, but poor technique probably accounts for 5% of those having trouble.
The main reason IMO is the amount of moisture in your fingertips. Some folks, like myself, have very dry hands.
I couldn't perform most standard ID's very deceptively if my life depended on it, and I've owned various ID's for over 35 years.

But if dryness is your problem there are couple things you can try.

You can lick your fingertips just before you spread the cards, but this isn't very hygienic and doesn't look very pleasing so I don't recommend it, plus it could be a tell to the audience that perhaps there may be a reason you need to do it.

You could also try using various skin moisturizers or hand lotions. These give a you very good grip. The problem is that they don't usually last very long so you may need to carry some around with you and apply it shortly before you think you may be performing the trick. There are many entire threads on the Café devoted to which brands are best and so forth. Do a search if you're interested.

What has worked best for me regarding any R/S deck is buying them from Shawn Evans at Mimesis Magic. They are about the same price as getting them anywhere else but he makes what he calls a "Fluid" deck which is basically only roughed on the middle third of each card.

Lastly, you can make up your own fluid deck pretty easily too. Just mask off the ends of each card and only spray the middle (or vice versa depending on your personal preference.)
There are also many threads on which brand of spray makes the best roughed deck. You can search that as well.

Hope that helps.

PS-if dry hands are your problem be prepared to spend countless hours mastering or re-working sleights that those lucky folks without extreme dryness can master much, much faster.
But of course it sometimes works the other way around too, where the dryness becomes an asset. But that is much less frequent than the opposite in my experience.
Message: Posted by: robbie mcgrath (Mar 13, 2014 04:24PM)
Is it not easier when ur bike is turned face down you know what way it's set up cause your bike case is same as one side if your deck ! That's how I set up , leave it closed and if you need it to be turned around you know in an instant turn box over as you pick up and open it straight into your routine , it the way I do it and work for me
Message: Posted by: Dollarbill (Mar 14, 2014 09:02AM)
[quote]
On Mar 13, 2014, robbie mcgrath wrote:
Is it not easier when ur bike is turned face down you know what way it's set up cause your bike case is same as one side if your deck ! That's how I set up , leave it closed and if you need it to be turned around you know in an instant turn box over as you pick up and open it straight into your routine , it the way I do it and work for me
[/quote]

?
Message: Posted by: lcwright1964 (Mar 14, 2014 01:49PM)
In most R/S decks I have, the end pairs are not subject to pressure from cards on both sides, so in spreading the pack I have to be especially mindful of the pressure I should apply at those ends of the spread. I have a ho-hum mental photography deck that is unevenly treated (from the eBay seller Tracy Kidd, whom I don't recommend as he is expensive and his decks are of inconsistent quality), but even then I have figured out how to exert just enough pressure so as to avoid unwanted separation and flashing. I suspect your deck is relatively normal.

I recommend Shawn Evans's Fluid Decks from Mimesis Magic to solve the separation problem. Basically, the treatment is such that the cards separate easily if you apply pressure to one part of the card back yet stay stuck if your pressure is in another place. Ingenious.
Message: Posted by: Zack_Johnston (Mar 14, 2014 05:32PM)
My advice for the hard-to-separate pair: Use pressure on all the cards you don't want separated while spreading, and use a light and gentle touch for the separation. Don't press hard when separating the desired pair! This damages the fluid, and it will make it easy to flash that pair later on because of damaged fluid. Its more difficult to separate when you use too much pressure. Hope this helps,

Zack Johnston
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Mar 15, 2014 12:43AM)
I always moisten my fingers in some way before spreading.

One good tip I use is to grab a cold glass of ice water prior to doing your spread - the moisture from the glass transfers to the fingers.

Also it is really not all fingers which need to be moistened - it is really the 3rd middle finger and the pointer pretty much.
Message: Posted by: Tracy Kidd (Feb 26, 2016 11:52AM)
[quote]On Mar 14, 2014, lcwright1964 wrote:
I have a ho-hum mental photography deck that is unevenly treated (from the eBay seller Tracy Kidd, whom I don't recommend as he is expensive and his decks are of inconsistent quality), . [/quote]
I see this is an old post, but I would like to respond. I am very sorry you were not happy with my deck. Had you contacted me I would have gladly sent you a replacement and made you a deck to your liking, (I do custom work). Yes my single deck prices are/where more than most on eBay, and that is/was because I sell to other eBay sellers who buy there decks from me and resale them. I am more on the production, wholesale & jobber end of things.
Message: Posted by: 443magicman (Mar 24, 2016 11:37PM)
If you can't get it to work, even with tons of practice and you know that its the cards, try spraying them with some krylon spray or even rubbing a crayon on the back of both cards. Hope this helps!
Message: Posted by: jamieguitar (Mar 25, 2016 02:41PM)
[quote]On Mar 13, 2014, Chessmann wrote:
Well, you do need to put at least a little bit of pressure on the deck when handling it, in order for the pairs of cards to stay together. The way the cards are treated, they do not "stick" to each other, but friction is created when pressure is applied so that the pairs of cards cannot spread apart as you are spreading the deck.

Test it by spreading the cards in your hand, being sure to keep a little pressure on the cards. If the pairs stay together when you are putting a little bit of pressure on them, the deck sounds ok. If the pairs spread apart even when you apply pressure as you're spreading the cards, you should return the deck and get another one. [/quote]

Oh my gosh, I don't know why I just didn't think of that! Thank you. I thought I was dealing with a defective deck. Turns out the user was the defective one! Thank you!
Message: Posted by: CalebRose (Apr 8, 2016 08:25PM)
My deck got mixed up. Any suggestions on how to solve it?